Metastable nitrogen and atmospheric phenomena ?
Andre
Does anyone here know if N4, N5, N6 etc (metastable nitrogen
molecules) will emit light when they decay ?
Just a thought I had . One wonders if the molecules would clump
together by electrostatics also, if so this would be very interesting
.
Also, would it be possible for any known configuration of
electrostatic/electromagnetic fields to mass-produce said molecules ?
Say, a couple million at a time .
-Andre
spong...@encephalitis.com
Take a look at http://www-cms.llnl.gov/s-t/ex_soccer.html
It looks like these nitrogen molecules may be a bit theoretical,
but N4 may exist: "# Inconclusive evidence for Tetrazete (N4)
generated in electric discharge of nitrogen plasma (CPL, 328, 227,
2000)"
and
" * Calculations show that Tetraheadral N4 is metastable with
dissociation energy (N4 —> 2N2 ) = 186 kcal/mol. The energy barrier to
decomposition is 61 kcal/mol (long lived and could be trapped)
* N8 should be metastable having a dissociation energy
(N8—> 4N2) = 423 kcal/mol.
"
I remember N8 was made octaazacubane,
but all information on it seems to have been erased from the internet.
But there could also be a pentazoleazide isomer also.
N5 might only exist as N5+ or N5- ions.
Perhaps dipentazole N10 exists also.
And DARPA are looking for N60 bucky balls.
And under pressure greater than 65GPa, polymeric nitrogen should be
stable. see http://www.llnl.gov/etr/pdfs/08_94.6.pdf
Michael Moroney
ring is so stable, could nitrogen benzene (N6) exist? Although N6 is not
mentioned, I guess the N-N bond in this case would be somewhere between
the single and double N-N bond in strength. Is the maximum number of ring
nitrogens in any known benzene-like ring compounds 3?
--
-Mike
reply to: o o e @ o l . t . o
m r n y w r d s d c m
Carsten Nielsen
> Very interesting. For quite some time I wondered that since the benzene
> ring is so stable, could nitrogen benzene (N6) exist? Although N6 is not
> mentioned, I guess the N-N bond in this case would be somewhere between
> the single and double N-N bond in strength. Is the maximum number of ring
> nitrogens in any known benzene-like ring compounds 3?
I think there would be too much tensions in the N6 moldcule.
Try checking what the angle is in a -N=N- compound is, or the angle in H-N=CH2
If it is too different from 60 degrees, forget it.
Regards
Carsten Nielsen
Denmark
G. R. L. Cowan
Michael Moroney wrote:
>
> Very interesting. For quite some time I wondered that since the benzene
> ring is so stable, could nitrogen benzene (N6) exist? Although N6 is not
> mentioned, I guess the N-N bond in this case would be somewhere between
> the single and double N-N bond in strength. Is the maximum number of ring
> nitrogens in any known benzene-like ring compounds 3?
Four, according to my CRC. 1,2,4,5-tetrazine:
NN
HC CH
NN
--- Graham Cowan
http://www.eagle.ca/~gcowan/boron_blast.html --
100 internal combustion watt-hours in a baby's fist
spong...@encephalitis.com
mor...@world.std.spaamtraap.com (Michael Moroney) wrote:
>Very interesting. For quite some time I wondered that since the benzene
>ring is so stable, could nitrogen benzene (N6) exist? Although N6 is not
>mentioned, I guess the N-N bond in this case would be somewhere between
>the single and double N-N bond in strength. Is the maximum number of ring
>nitrogens in any known benzene-like ring compounds 3?
>--
>
>-Mike
Hello Mike
I think that the N6 ring would very esily change from double single
bonds to triple zero bonds and then you would have three loose
molecules of dinitrogen that would escape. The activation energy
would be very low for this decomposition.
For N6 it looks like diazide would be more likely - a chain of 6
nitrogens. NNNNNN
Andre
> On 23 Apr 2003 11:36:15 -0700, test...@yahoo.com (Andre) wrote:
>
> >Hi group .
> >
> >Does anyone here know if N4, N5, N6 etc (metastable nitrogen
> >molecules) will emit light when they decay ?
> >
> >Just a thought I had . One wonders if the molecules would clump
> >together by electrostatics also, if so this would be very interesting
> >.
> >
> >Also, would it be possible for any known configuration of
> >electrostatic/electromagnetic fields to mass-produce said molecules ?
> >Say, a couple million at a time .
> >
> >-Andre
>
>
> Take a look at http://www-cms.llnl.gov/s-t/ex_soccer.html
>
> It looks like these nitrogen molecules may be a bit theoretical,
> but N4 may exist: "# Inconclusive evidence for Tetrazete (N4)
> generated in electric discharge of nitrogen plasma (CPL, 328, 227,
> 2000)"
>
> and
> " * Calculations show that Tetraheadral N4 is metastable with
> decomposition is 61 kcal/mol (long lived and could be trapped)
> * N8 should be metastable having a dissociation energy
Would the emitted energy consist of reddish-orange light ?
I had suspicions that metastable nitrogen molecules might be the
"missing link" in the theories about ball lightning . At least two
I've seen involve gas molecules behaving in an "unusual way" .
Perhaps the wavelength of the light emitted depends on the proportion
of the various molecules ?
Question is, could these molecules be stable for tens of hours ?
Perhaps they are produced in bulk in the upper atmosphere at the right
altitude during intense electrostatic activity, and as they fall
towards the ground the electrostatics cause them to "clump together",
creating a bright visible glow for a short time (and the presence of
oxygen acts like a catalyst, causing the phenomenon to be short lived
but very bright, as with ZnS:Mg when exposed to infra-red light) .
Would certainly explain a number of observations of BL in clear
weather . The storm would not have to be very close, perhaps hundreds
of miles away .
Comments ?
Possible method of production :- low pressure static discharge through
N2 gas, vented into atmosphere via flip lid .
hanson
>
> >Hi group .
> >
> >Does anyone here know if N4, N5, N6 etc (metastable nitrogen
> >molecules) will emit light when they decay ?
> >
> >Just a thought I had . One wonders if the molecules would clump
> >together by electrostatics also, if so this would be very interesting
> >.
> >
> >Also, would it be possible for any known configuration of
> >electrostatic/electromagnetic fields to mass-produce said molecules ?
> >Say, a couple million at a time .
> >
> >-Andre
>
>
> Take a look at http://www-cms.llnl.gov/s-t/ex_soccer.html
>
> It looks like these nitrogen molecules may be a bit theoretical,
> but N4 may exist: "# Inconclusive evidence for Tetrazete (N4)
> generated in electric discharge of nitrogen plasma (CPL, 328, 227,
> 2000)"
>
> and
> " * Calculations show that Tetraheadral N4 is metastable with
> dissociation energy (N4 —> 2N2 ) = 186 kcal/mol. The energy barrier to
> decomposition is 61 kcal/mol (long lived and could be trapped)
> * N8 should be metastable having a dissociation energy
> (N8—> 4N2) = 423 kcal/mol.
> "
>
> I remember N8 was made octaazacubane,
>
> N5 might only exist as N5+ or N5- ions.
> Perhaps dipentazole N10 exists also.
> And DARPA are looking for N60 bucky balls.
>
> And under pressure greater than 65GPa, polymeric nitrogen should be
> stable. see http://www.llnl.gov/etr/pdfs/08_94.6.pdf
>
"> but all information on it seems to have been erased from the internet."
One from India, in the 1960's, appeared to be an attempt where
they dissolved/mixed a) NO into liq. Argon and b) H2N-NH2 into liq. Ar,
mixed a & b then irradiated it with uv: 2 NO + N2H4 = N4 + 2 H2O
That supposedly gave them a tetrazine, *N=N-N=N*, which polymerized
into 2D-hexring sheets (like graphite), which were soluble in liquid Argon,
and allowed them to filter out the H2O-ice xx, evaporate the Ar, and
isolate the (N6)x.
Sounded to me a bit like the Russian polywater, then and now.
But then, you never know.....what if.......
hanson
Lucius Chiaraviglio
>[. . .]>[. . .]
>
>I remember N8 was made octaazacubane,
>but all information on it seems to have been erased from the internet.
It's still in there (same page, brief mention).
--
Lucius Chiaraviglio
Approximate E-mail address: luci...@chapter.net
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