Making sulfuric acid from FeSO4
Anders V
really use some help here.
I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
/A
Anders V
> I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
> really use some help here.
>
> I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
> dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
The above is a typo. It should read FeSO4x7H2O.
Marvin Margoshes
"Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
There is a technical possibility. But what do you think is the sense of it?
It is certainly a hard way to get sulfuric acid.
William Penrose
<axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote:
>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
It make no economic sense. Sulfuric acid is one of the cheapest
industrial commodities.
Bill Penrose
Anders V
/A
Anders V
/A
Anders V
decomposition is a one time only step. The real production will
be done using the conventional method by burning sulfur in air,
then passing the SO2 + air over a platinum or vanadin(V)oxide
catalyst.
And btw, the 5kg of FeSO4 I've got cost only about $20, so
it's not THAT expensive.
The platium mesh/sponge will be much more expensive, ofcourse,
but I only need one, and that can be used to synthesize nitric
acid as well.
/A
Repeating Rifle
axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org wrote on 12/20/03 8:34 AM:
> Where I live, you need a permit (!) to buy acids. Hence me need.
>
Where do you live?
I have some problems as well. To get (almost) concentrated sulfuric acid, I
bought some drain cleaner containing warnings about sulfuric acid at a local
Ace hardware store.
Bill
hanson
news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
It'll work. However, there is no Fe2SO4x7H2O. But you can take
FeSO4x7H2O and do what the alchemists did in the 14th century
to produce SO3--->H2SO4. Powder it and heat it in air that it
oxidizes to 3 FeSO4 + 1.5 O2 = Fe2O3 + Fe2(SO4)3. Now, the
Fe2(SO4)3 will decompose under heat into Fe2O3 & SO3 per
Fe2(SO4)3 --- heat --> Fe2O3 + 3 SO3,
which yields upon absorption in water the desired H2SO4.
I take it that you are a junior who explores the wonderland of
chemistry. Read, read and learn about it, dude. Chemistry is
a wonderful subject, profession and vocation. And anytime you
see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
ahahahaha....ahahahanson
Steve Turner
>And anytime you
>see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
>...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
>world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
>ahahahaha....ahahahanson
Sheesh hanson, you're obsessing. Dude, work this out before you pop
an artery.
Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
hanson
news:njq9uvcp1u7qm97s3...@4ax.com...
> "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
> >And anytime you
> >see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
> >...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
> >world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
> >ahahahaha....ahahahanson
>
> Sheesh hanson, you're obsessing.
> Dude, work this out before you pop an artery.
>
Steve, old buddy, absolutely! As you can see, I am working on it!
ahahahaha......ahahahahaha.... I do it with extreme glee and
devotion and pleasure. Somebody gotta do the hard and dirty work!
One day you'll thank me for it, Steve.
The time is long overdue to smear the green turds with their own
misanthropic paint. -item- For too long have they brainwashed
children and used them as slave labor to clean beaches and calling it
character building. - item- Today, they got on TV & started a campaign
to destroy the family by riling up children against their mothers.
-item- Green shits are forcing you pay money now to stroll/hike/enter
your unimproved public lands that you already paid for with your taxes.
If you don't buy a ticket -- there's a $5000.- fine and jailtime, dude!
Green shits are evil! Green shits are evil! Green shits are evil!
My ranting is to counterweigh to all that green shit the enviro turds put
out to enrich themselves and think they have some god given right to
promulgate and do so. So, Steve, ....what's good for the goose....
I say: Fuck'em. Ungreased! Green shits are evil! Green shits are evil!
The first time I hear a rational, non misanthropic word come out of
any green shits mouth, I will reconsider my stance and tone.
Till then: Fuck'em. Ungreased! Green shits are evil! Green shits are evil!
But, thanks for your well intended advice, Steve. You are a good man.
Now, look here at another excessive green travesty that they
orchestrated while a war and prescription drug mayhem etc. goes
on in a anemic economy: $20 million dollars to pamper Keiko,
an orca, only to fuck up the beast so bad that it died when they
turned it loose back into the ocean, ....Reminiscent of the orcas
that ate all the seals, 30 seconds after release, which the green
shit had pampered to the tune of $80'000 each after the Valdez.
How many needy children could have been saved and/or sent to
college for that money?
=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, ===
=== without any redeeming value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==-
=== scam has come to an end. Now, all the green shits are whining... ===
-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----
"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
-- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.
"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But
that's the way we sell messages in this society. We use hype."
-- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington
"We already have too much economic growth in the United States.
Economic growth in rich countries like ours is the disease, not the cure."
-- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice President Gore
"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no
scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."
-- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working
on assignment for the Conservation Foundation
"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which
the killing of a forest will be considered more contemptible and more
criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."
-- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany
"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds,
I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds."
-- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd
-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----
William Penrose
<axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote:
>The platium mesh/sponge will be much more expensive, ofcourse,
>but I only need one, and that can be used to synthesize nitric
>acid as well.
Wait until you check out the cost of platinum. You're talking many
thousands of whatever monetary unit you work in. You might want to
rent it instead. There may be alternate catalysts.
If you're making both conc sulfuric and nitric, I strongly suspect
your purpose. I am not in the business of helping people make
explosives.
And chemists are not the only ones who monitor these newsgroups.
Bill Penrose
Anders V
> in article AS_Eb.39204$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net, Anders V at
> axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org wrote on 12/20/03 8:34 AM:
>
>
>>Where I live, you need a permit (!) to buy acids. Hence me need.
>>
>
>
> Where do you live?
Sweden. Basically you need a permit for everything except milk...
Henry Boyter
You need either conc caustic or conc sulfuric.
--
Henry Boyter, Jr.
PhD Chemist
http://www.itt.edu/staff/boyter/links/index.html
The opinions expressed are those of Dr. Boyter and
are provided for informational purposes only and
should not be used as advice. No warranty or
expression of professionalism is implied.
"Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:sKrFb.39412$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net...
Anders V
Usually sodium hydroxide and some steel wire...... =)
Anders V
> "Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
> news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
>
>>I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
>>really use some help here.
>>I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
>>dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
>> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
>>FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
>>cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
>>it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
>>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
>>/A
>
>
> It'll work. However, there is no Fe2SO4x7H2O. But you can take
> FeSO4x7H2O and do what the alchemists did in the 14th century
> to produce SO3--->H2SO4. Powder it and heat it in air that it
> oxidizes to 3 FeSO4 + 1.5 O2 = Fe2O3 + Fe2(SO4)3. Now, the
> Fe2(SO4)3 will decompose under heat into Fe2O3 & SO3 per
> Fe2(SO4)3 --- heat --> Fe2O3 + 3 SO3,
> which yields upon absorption in water the desired H2SO4.
What temperatures are we talking here? 2 different ones,
the first (FeSO4x7H2O + heat --> Fe2(SO4)3, and another,
higher one for the decomposition step?
/A
Anders V
old. Problem is, I've forgotten most of my college chemistry.
/A
hanson
> hanson wrote:
>
> > "Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
> > news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
> >
> >>I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
> >>really use some help here.
> >>I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
> >>dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
> >> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
> >>FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
> >>cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
> >>it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
> >>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
> >>/A
> >
> >
> > It'll work. However, there is no Fe2SO4x7H2O. But you can take
> > FeSO4x7H2O and do what the alchemists did in the 14th century
> > to produce SO3--->H2SO4. Powder it and heat it in air that it
> > Fe2(SO4)3 will decompose under heat into Fe2O3 & SO3 per
> > Fe2(SO4)3 --- heat --> Fe2O3 + 3 SO3,
> > which yields upon absorption in water the desired H2SO4.
>
> What temperatures are we talking here? 2 different ones,
> the first (FeSO4x7H2O + heat --> Fe2(SO4)3, and another,
> higher one for the decomposition step?
>
> /A
>
Yes!
a) desiccation: FeSO4x7H2O + heat --> FeSO4 + 7 H2O
b) oxidation: 3 FeSO4 + 1.5 O2 = Fe2O3 + Fe2(SO4)3
c) disassociation: Fe2(SO4)3 --- heat --> Fe2O3 + 3 SO3
more detail answers see below.
> >
> > I take it that you are a junior who explores the wonderland of
> > chemistry. Read, read and learn about it, dude. Chemistry is
> And actually, no, I'm not a junior, more like almost 30 years
> old. Problem is, I've forgotten most of my college chemistry.
Listen, broser. I am not here to do other peoples work!
For me, the use net is entertainment. When I find something
of interest and I have an answer in my head, I do respond.
But I wouldn't think of opening a book for some fart who is
too fucking lazy to do it himself. That would be consulting *work*.
$ 2500.- unrefundable good faith money upfront and then $ 250.-/hr
Happy holidays,
ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
Anders V
> [...]
> For me, the use net is entertainment. When I find something
> of interest and I have an answer in my head, I do respond.
> But I wouldn't think of opening a book for some fart who is
> too fucking lazy to do it himself. That would be consulting *work*.
> $ 2500.- unrefundable good faith money upfront and then $ 250.-/hr
> Happy holidays,
> ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
If the method was described in a book (w.r.t. temperatures) or
on the net somewhere (also w.r.t. temperatures) I would already
have found the info. I'm not "too fucking lazy", I've actually
done research about the subject for 2 weeks now sans result,
hence my turning to usenet for an answer. If that's "being a fart",
so be it.
Since it seems impossible to get a straight answer out of anyone,
I therefore now have no choice but to turn to the empirical approach.
hanson
>
> > [...]
> > Listen, broser. I am not here to do other peoples work!
> > For me, the use net is entertainment. When I find something
> > of interest and I have an answer in my head, I do respond.
> > But I wouldn't think of opening a book for some fart who is
> > too fucking lazy to do it himself. That would be consulting *work*.
> > $ 2500.- unrefundable good faith money upfront and then $ 250.-/hr
> > Happy holidays,
> > ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
>
> If the method was described in a book (w.r.t. temperatures) or
> on the net somewhere (also w.r.t. temperatures) I would already
> have found the info. I'm not "too fucking lazy", I've actually
> done research about the subject for 2 weeks now sans result,
> hence my turning to usenet for an answer. If that's "being a fart",
> so be it.
>
> Since it seems impossible to get a straight answer out of anyone,
> I therefore now have no choice but to turn to the empirical approach.
>
Now, you get 3 attaboys for your decision! Congratulations.
That's the way to go. You have earned the title of "researcher" now!
Happy holidays/Yule tide to you, Anders,
hanson
*************
Paddy
> > news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
> >
> >>I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
> >>really use some help here.
> >>I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
> >>dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
> >> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
> >>FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
> >>cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
> >>it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
> >>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
> >>/A
> >
You already have your ferrous sulphate, but ferric sulphate, or ferric
alum would work even better. This method of preparation is thousands
of years old.
As is the preparation of nitric acid by mixing potassium nitrate with
the sulphate before distillation. The mixed oxides of nitrogen come
off at a lower temperature than SO3 and can be condensed, dissolved,
and subsequently concentrated.
Mixing common salt with the sulphate will cause hydrogen chloride to
be liberated. Thus you can have sulphuric, nitric and hydrochloric
acids, and you can make aqua regia as did the ancients.
Barry
"Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
Has anyone suggested car battery acid - or is it too weak for your purposes?
Barry Hunt
Synthon
>
> >And anytime you
> >see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
> >...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
> >world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
> >ahahahaha....ahahahanson
>
In this case I don't believe these restrictions are the fault of the
enviros, at least not specificly (however they are a PART of the
general lib freedom rapists). Anders' problem relates to the more
general socialist cancer that afflicts most of europe.
America resists, being still one the most 'old-school' wealthy
nations left. All the libs here laugh at certain restrictions/law
changes being construed as 'socialism'. Still anyone without blinders
on can see as guns, chemicals, free speech, etc., become restricted,
an increase in social programs occur. Hey Anders, how much does your
socialized medicine cost? I'd bet your middle class gets fucked 50%
in taxes.
So, as cries for goverment health care, welfare, and 'hate speech'
laws spew out of lib politicians/drug-damaged citizens mouths, one
sees a concurrent obliteration of freedoms. ENJOY YOUR FREEDOMS WHILE
THEY LAST. Europe shows a perfect past correllary between socialism
and loss of freedom. Nevertheless, one doesn't even need a
demonstration for proof, as it's the government's desire to CONTROL
it's citizenry that is the very driving force behind socialism. It's
not about curing social ills.
Anders, what else do you need a permit for in Sweden? I'm curious
just how bad it's getting over there.
pragmatist
Getting your sample to 500 deg. C. won't be a trivial exercise, and
even if you do, you are unlikely to get highly concentrated acid by
bubbling SO3 through water.
You might have to flush your apparatus with steam at the start. Then
you could combine more SO3 with water vapor and the condensate from
mixed gas and vapor would be more highly concentrated acid.
You mentioned acids being controlled in your location. Battery acid
is pretty common just about everywhere but it is only about 30%. It
can be concentrated to a bit over 65% by boiling until white SO3 fumes
evolve, but no further. Purity is probably better than you can
synthesize.
Some 'professional` drain cleaners sold in the U.S., (and probably
elsewhere), are about 95% H2SO4 but there is some impurity that colors
the fluid.
I suspect you are a student, and I applaud your efforts to get
practical expereience. I hope it is not out of place to advise that
you research the practices and precautions neccessary for dealing with
high temperatures, toxic gasses, and strong acids before proceeding.
When I was young, I didn't...I was lucky and escaped serious harm.
(Note: SO3 is toxic, it was used as a war gas. Symptoms of poisoning
are delayed. You can feel fine and still be in serious trouble.)
Take care, - Pragmatist -
"No matter how hard you struggle to cram Theory into your head,
Practice will find a way to bite you on the other end."
Anders V
> Steve Turner <srtu...@spamnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<njq9uvcp1u7qm97s3...@4ax.com>...
>
>>"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>And anytime you
>>>see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
>>>...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
>>>world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
>>>ahahahaha....ahahahanson
>>
>
> In this case I don't believe these restrictions are the fault of the
> enviros, at least not specificly (however they are a PART of the
> general lib freedom rapists). Anders' problem relates to the more
> general socialist cancer that afflicts most of europe.
> America resists, being still one the most 'old-school' wealthy
> nations left. All the libs here laugh at certain restrictions/law
> changes being construed as 'socialism'. Still anyone without blinders
> on can see as guns, chemicals, free speech, etc., become restricted,
> an increase in social programs occur. Hey Anders, how much does your
> socialized medicine cost? I'd bet your middle class gets fucked 50%
> in taxes.
Medicines? You have to pay for them yourself, up to a limit of approx.
$180, from then on you get them for free, for a year --- after which the
cycle repeats. And as for the getting fucked, I'm paying 31% in taxes.
And, and this might come as a shock to you, but the US actually spends
a LARGER percentage of its GNP on health care than Sweden does.
> So, as cries for goverment health care, welfare, and 'hate speech'
> laws spew out of lib politicians/drug-damaged citizens mouths, one
> sees a concurrent obliteration of freedoms. ENJOY YOUR FREEDOMS WHILE
> THEY LAST. Europe shows a perfect past correllary between socialism
> and loss of freedom. Nevertheless, one doesn't even need a
> demonstration for proof, as it's the government's desire to CONTROL
> it's citizenry that is the very driving force behind socialism. It's
> not about curing social ills.
I agree that 'hate speech' laws are bad, both because they restrict
freedom of speech and, more importantly, because they only tend to
drive for example nazis underground. Overground, in open debate,
they don't stand a chance. But our common views end there.
Europe, and perhaps more specifically the EU, is anything BUT Socialist.
I would describe the EU as "a coalition of the Capitalist Monopolistic
Corporations of Europe to decrease workers' rights and compete
imperialisticly on the international arena with the US and Asia".
It's just a matter of perspective.... what you would call a "liberal",
most of us here would call "right wing". And as for the rant about
socialism being about control, I won't even start. I'm very definitely
against _some_ forms of govt. control (esp. chemicals), while I'm very
much pro other types of govt. control (esp. guns). You do realize
that the US has the highest murder rate in the Western world, as well
as the highest percentage of its population imprisoned?
And don't get me started about your current President. If he had tried
to run for office of any kind over here, with the same rhetoric he
used over there, he would at best be a freakish curiosity and at worst
placed where he belongs. In a psychiatric ward, in an un-removable
shirt with leather bonds.....
> Anders, what else do you need a permit for in Sweden? I'm curious
> just how bad it's getting over there.
Basically chems that can be used for manufacturing explosives, and
guns. The former is bad, because it limits my research, the latter is
good, since it decreases my risk of being shot.
And _please_ don't get me into a political discussion again .... I
don't want to make enemies with 90% of the people here.
/A
Anders V
> "Barry" <barry...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<bsak4g$2q3n$1...@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>...
>
>>"Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
>>news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
>>
>>>I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
>>>really use some help here.
>>>
>>>I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
>>>dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
>>>
>>> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
>>>FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
>>>cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
>>>it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
>>>
>>>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
>>>
>>>/A
>>
>>Has anyone suggested car battery acid - or is it too weak for your purposes?
>>
>>Barry Hunt
>
>
> Getting your sample to 500 deg. C. won't be a trivial exercise, and
> even if you do, you are unlikely to get highly concentrated acid by
> bubbling SO3 through water.
The apparatus I'm building consists of a ceramic bottle, a Liebig
cooler using a lead pipe (resistant to SO3), and a Reil propane
burner. Keeping the temp. up won't be a problem, rather the
opposite.... =)
> You might have to flush your apparatus with steam at the start. Then
> you could combine more SO3 with water vapor and the condensate from
> mixed gas and vapor would be more highly concentrated acid.
> You mentioned acids being controlled in your location. Battery acid
> is pretty common just about everywhere but it is only about 30%. It
You can't even buy battery acid here (regulations.....).
I was thinking that the water of hydration (FeSO4x7H20) would help
there, for the first batch. Then I was going to dehydrate the next
batch of FeSO4 before heating, cooling and bubbling SO3 through the
result of the first batch, etc. I'm pretty sure the process is
sound --- I read that that's how highly concentrated H2SO4 was
produced before the contact process was invented.
The problem, as I see it, is mechanical rather than chemical. You
have no idea how hard it was to contruct a high, thick walled
bottle out of clay with NO pottery experience. I'm just hoping
it won't crack during the firing.
As I've stated before, I have a catch-22 situation. I'm later going
to construct a sulfur burner that utilizes a platinum-rhodium
catalyst, but the f*****g process requires concentrated H2SO4
to bubble the SO3 through to begin with!
> can be concentrated to a bit over 65% by boiling until white SO3 fumes
> evolve, but no further. Purity is probably better than you can
> synthesize.
> Some 'professional` drain cleaners sold in the U.S., (and probably
> elsewhere), are about 95% H2SO4 but there is some impurity that colors
> the fluid.
> I suspect you are a student, and I applaud your efforts to get
> practical expereience. I hope it is not out of place to advise that
> you research the practices and precautions neccessary for dealing with
> high temperatures, toxic gasses, and strong acids before proceeding.
> When I was young, I didn't...I was lucky and escaped serious harm.
> (Note: SO3 is toxic, it was used as a war gas. Symptoms of poisoning
Hmm yes, I got a whiff of it when I stupidiously heated some FeSO4x7H2O
with a butane torch. Made me cough a bit.
> are delayed. You can feel fine and still be in serious trouble.)
> Take care, - Pragmatist -
> "No matter how hard you struggle to cram Theory into your head,
> Practice will find a way to bite you on the other end."
Actually no, I'm not a student as such. I'm researching high performance
rocket fuels as a hobby. I've played with the KN/sugar based
propellants for a year, but I want a higher burn rate. That means
I need e.g. ammonium nitrate. Which is also regulated. Ammonia is not.
Neither is potassium nitrate. Hence I need nitric acid, to _make_ AN.
Amazingly enough, potassium perchlorate isn't regulated (yet), but so
far I've only found one supplier, and the prizes are horrible, making
the $150 investment in platinum (which was surprisingly easy to find)
well worth the price. I would rather use vanadium(V)oxide for the H2SO4,
but that's regulated too! <RANT>All these regulations are very very
annoying. I'm not a fucking terrorist, I just want to test rocket
engines! *sigh*
</RANT>
Steve Turner
>It's just a matter of perspective.... what you would call a "liberal",
>most of us here would call "right wing". And as for the rant about
>socialism being about control, I won't even start. I'm very definitely
>against _some_ forms of govt. control (esp. chemicals), while I'm very
>much pro other types of govt. control (esp. guns).
In other words, you dislike controls over things you might personally
use, but controls on things for which you have no desire are OK.
That kind of selfish thinking is all too common.
Steve Turner
Synthon
> Synthon wrote:
> > Steve Turner <srtu...@spamnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<njq9uvcp1u7qm97s3...@4ax.com>...
> >
> >>"hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>And anytime you
> >>>see an environmentalist, beat the living motherfuck out of'em
> >>>...'cause he/she is an environmentalist. They almost fucked up the
> >>>world and the entire civilization....Enviros are terrorists! Fuck'em.
> >>>ahahahaha....ahahahanson
> >>
> >
> > In this case I don't believe these restrictions are the fault of the
> > enviros, at least not specificly (however they are a PART of the
> > general lib freedom rapists). Anders' problem relates to the more
> > general socialist cancer that afflicts most of europe.
> > America resists, being still one the most 'old-school' wealthy
> > nations left. All the libs here laugh at certain restrictions/law
> > changes being construed as 'socialism'. Still anyone without blinders
> > on can see as guns, chemicals, free speech, etc., become restricted,
> > an increase in social programs occur. Hey Anders, how much does your
> > socialized medicine cost? I'd bet your middle class gets fucked 50%
> > in taxes.
>
> Medicines? You have to pay for them yourself, up to a limit of approx.
> $180, from then on you get them for free, for a year --- after which the
> cycle repeats. And as for the getting fucked, I'm paying 31% in taxes.
>
> And, and this might come as a shock to you, but the US actually spends
> a LARGER percentage of its GNP on health care than Sweden does.
>
swiss. The US spends more money on health care because of certain
'groups' we have millions of individuals within. One 'group' are not
citizens, and are very poor, they almost invariably get free care. The
other 'group' has a lack of genital control coupled with lack of
sense, they can have 6 kids from 6 daddies before their 22nd b-day.
And there you have it. The concept in the US is not socialized
medicine, but keeping certain groups from rioting and dying of
disease. After all they need to be alive to compose an underclass.
> I agree that 'hate speech' laws are bad, both because they restrict
> freedom of speech and, more importantly, because they only tend to
> drive for example nazis underground. Overground, in open debate,
> they don't stand a chance. But our common views end there.
>
> Europe, and perhaps more specifically the EU, is anything BUT Socialist.
> I would describe the EU as "a coalition of the Capitalist Monopolistic
> Corporations of Europe to decrease workers' rights and compete
> imperialisticly on the international arena with the US and Asia".
>
> It's just a matter of perspective.... what you would call a "liberal",
> most of us here would call "right wing". And as for the rant about
> socialism being about control, I won't even start.
That's exactly reason you are under socialist control. I know plenty
of insane US liberals, I shudder to think of a society that considers
them right-wing. Euros seem to be castrated when juxtaposed with an
American male. Hence the facile control by the government. (And
probably by your women as well.)
> I'm very definitely
> against _some_ forms of govt. control (esp. chemicals), while I'm very
> much pro other types of govt. control (esp. guns). You do realize
> that the US has the highest murder rate in the Western world, as well
> as the highest percentage of its population imprisoned?
This is not due to guns. It's more specificly due to our large black
population. So many end up in prison before the age of 25, it's bound
to skew the the stats. Add to that all of our Mexicans; they don't
give a shit about committing crime, because hey, jail is no worse than
life in Mexico. Don't believe me? Take a look at the lopsided race
pop.%/imprisonment ratio.
> And don't get me started about your current President. If he had tried
> to run for office of any kind over here, with the same rhetoric he
> used over there, he would at best be a freakish curiosity and at worst
> placed where he belongs. In a psychiatric ward, in an un-removable
> shirt with leather bonds.....
Yes, yes, Americans know all too well how you feel about Bush. Angry
frogs and limeys enjoyed much media face-time in 2003.
I don't agree with everything Bush has done. But what the libs call
his "cowboy mentality", I welcome. If having a real man in the oval
keeps us from becoming testicularly-challenged, so be it.
>
> Basically chems that can be used for manufacturing explosives, and
> guns. The former is bad, because it limits my research, the latter is
> good, since it decreases my risk of being shot.
Exactly- if the law hurts me, strike it. If it benefits me, but
hinders someone else, it's just fine.
As far as getting shot, if someone wants you dead, they will
probably succeed. Guns just make for less exertion.
And again, our murder rate is not because we allow guns, but because
of a more agressive mentality. Add to that, extremely violent
minorities, and it becomes very simple to tack that rate onto the
shoulder of firearms.
> And _please_ don't get me into a political discussion again .... I
> don't want to make enemies with 90% of the people here.
Don't worry Andy... 90%?...hardly . There are plenty of folks here
just as illiberal as any European.
hanson
> pragmatist wrote:
> > When I was young, I didn't...I was lucky and escaped serious harm.
> > (Note: SO3 is toxic, it was used as a war gas. Symptoms of poisoning
>
> Hmm yes, I got a whiff of it when I stupidiously heated some
> FeSO4x7H2O with a butane torch. Made me cough a bit.
>
Anders, what you sniffed here was not SO3. It was much more
likely SO2 or perhaps even H2S that formed in the hot reducing
atmosphere of the butane flame.
> Actually no, I'm not a student as such. I'm researching high performance
> rocket fuels as a hobby. I've played with the KN/sugar based
> propellants for a year, but I want a higher burn rate. That means
> I need e.g. ammonium nitrate. Which is also regulated. Ammonia is not.
> Neither is potassium nitrate. Hence I need nitric acid, to _make_ AN.
> Amazingly enough, potassium perchlorate isn't regulated (yet), but so
> far I've only found one supplier, and the prizes are horrible, making
> the $150 investment in platinum (which was surprisingly easy to find)
> well worth the price. I would rather use vanadium(V)oxide for the H2SO4,
> but that's regulated too! <RANT>All these regulations are very very
> annoying. I'm not a fucking terrorist, I just want to test rocket
> engines! *sigh*
> </RANT>
Anders, listen, rant or not, you'll invite a lot of grief to yourself
when taking that road. Times are no longer as they once were.
The green shits started with the destruction of personal freedoms
and now the religious terrorists have taken up the same banner
to gain/control of money and power and how you should behave.
So, here you sit. Thanks to the green shits.
Now, to pursue your hobby, I recommend for you to join
a "rocket builder club". Under their umbrella you will get to
do all the things you want and have access to the chemicals
you need to build rocket engines...AND you will not become
suspect of engaging in terrorist activities. Usually there are
one or more cops in such clubs pursuing the same hobby and
keeping "an eye on things".
Good luck, have fun and let us know what composition you
used on your first successful launch.
hanson
Efverse23
Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out -because I was not
a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out
-because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no
one left to speak for me! -Pastor Niemoller
Applicable perfectly here, except replace the last half of the last sentence
with "no one who could or wanted to speak for me."
See Anders, you've lost so many freedoms in the EU, propigated by that
aforementioned selfish attitude, that you're in too deep. Now, when something
you want is restricted, there's nothing to do but break the law.
Comminusocialists rely entirely on freedom-apathy, such as your selective
version.
Anders V
> "Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
> news:qtcGb.39625$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net...
>
>>pragmatist wrote:
>>
>>> When I was young, I didn't...I was lucky and escaped serious harm.
>>>(Note: SO3 is toxic, it was used as a war gas. Symptoms of poisoning
>>
>>Hmm yes, I got a whiff of it when I stupidiously heated some
>>FeSO4x7H2O with a butane torch. Made me cough a bit.
>>
>
>
> Anders, what you sniffed here was not SO3. It was much more
> likely SO2 or perhaps even H2S that formed in the hot reducing
> atmosphere of the butane flame.
Unlikely. Is not SO2 odorless? And the fumes definitively did
_not_ smell of rotten eggs, so H2S is out of the question.
Also, the remains of the fired pile was a black powdery subtance
suspiciously reminiscent of FeO.
>
>
>>Actually no, I'm not a student as such. I'm researching high performance
>>rocket fuels as a hobby. I've played with the KN/sugar based
>>propellants for a year, but I want a higher burn rate. That means
>>I need e.g. ammonium nitrate. Which is also regulated. Ammonia is not.
>>Neither is potassium nitrate. Hence I need nitric acid, to _make_ AN.
>>Amazingly enough, potassium perchlorate isn't regulated (yet), but so
>>far I've only found one supplier, and the prizes are horrible, making
>>the $150 investment in platinum (which was surprisingly easy to find)
>>well worth the price. I would rather use vanadium(V)oxide for the H2SO4,
>>but that's regulated too! <RANT>All these regulations are very very
>>annoying. I'm not a fucking terrorist, I just want to test rocket
>>engines! *sigh*
>></RANT>
>
>
> Anders, listen, rant or not, you'll invite a lot of grief to yourself
> when taking that road. Times are no longer as they once were.
> The green shits started with the destruction of personal freedoms
> and now the religious terrorists have taken up the same banner
> to gain/control of money and power and how you should behave.
Eh? Please enlighten us all as to how regulations concerning
acid possesion have anything to do with "religious terrorists"
(reflection: an expression, which if taken in a very broad sense, could
easily apply to e.g. George Bush).
>
> So, here you sit. Thanks to the green shits.
> Now, to pursue your hobby, I recommend for you to join
> a "rocket builder club". Under their umbrella you will get to
> do all the things you want and have access to the chemicals
> you need to build rocket engines...AND you will not become
> suspect of engaging in terrorist activities. Usually there are
> one or more cops in such clubs pursuing the same hobby and
> keeping "an eye on things".
I know, I know, but I've always been a loner when it comes
to my hobbies. I want to do things _my way_.
> Good luck, have fun and let us know what composition you
> used on your first successful launch.
Already had one. Launching angle: 45 degress, apogee unknown,
range appr. 500 meters, fuel potassium nitrate(65%) +
anhydrous dextrose (35%) + some Fe2O3 as catalyst, fuel grain
geometry case-bonded hollow grain.
I want to make an end-burner with a much higher fuel burn
rate.
> hanson
Anders V
> Anders V <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote:
>
>
>>It's just a matter of perspective.... what you would call a "liberal",
>>most of us here would call "right wing". And as for the rant about
>>socialism being about control, I won't even start. I'm very definitely
>>against _some_ forms of govt. control (esp. chemicals), while I'm very
>>much pro other types of govt. control (esp. guns).
>
>
> In other words, you dislike controls over things you might personally
> use, but controls on things for which you have no desire are OK.
Yes.
>
> That kind of selfish thinking is all too common.
Is it?
Anders V
Not quite. I know the quote well, though. However, personally I'm
opposed to restrictions concerning mostly everything --- apart from
guns. I'd rather get hit by an iron pipe when getting mugged than
shot, thank you very much.
Methinks the quote is out of context here.
/A
donald j haarmann
> I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
> really use some help here.
>
> I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
> dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
>
> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
> FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
> cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
> it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
>
> Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
>
> /A
-------------
Starting in the mid 18th cen. this was THE method for production of H2SO4.
--
donald j haarmann - independently dubious
SNUMBER6
>Having spent more years than I want to remember working in a sulfur
>burning acid plant, SO2 is an acrid smell that smells like the a
>''strike on box match" smells like for the first instant after
>striking. SO3 is supposedly odorless,
Sulfur deliveries in molten form ???
That always amazed me ...
Be seeing you
In the Village
Number 6
hanson
news:20031225142509...@mb-m24.aol.com...
> >From: ">x...@ptd.ne>
>
> >Having spent more years than I want to remember working in a sulfur
> >burning acid plant, SO2 is an acrid smell that smells like the a
> >''strike on box match" smells like for the first instant after
> >striking. SO3 is supposedly odorless,
>
> Sulfur deliveries in molten form ???
> That always amazed me ...
>
Sulfur deliveries in molten form. Certainly.
Standard gig like deliveries of molten asphalt.
See google "Frasch sulfur" 1,320 hit.
Happy Antlers, (sulfurised keratin)
hanson
SNUMBER6
>Sulfur deliveries in molten form. Certainly.
>Standard gig like deliveries of molten asphalt.
Until the green shits put up a bigger stink ...
We had to convert over from that due to "environmental concerns" ... which
raised the costs drastically ...It used to get pumped off a barge ...
pragmatist
>
> Actually no, I'm not a student as such. I'm researching high performance
> rocket fuels as a hobby. I've played with the KN/sugar based
> propellants for a year, but I want a higher burn rate. That means
> I need e.g. ammonium nitrate. Which is also regulated. Ammonia is not.
> Neither is potassium nitrate. Hence I need nitric acid, to _make_ AN.
> Amazingly enough, potassium perchlorate isn't regulated (yet), but so
> far I've only found one supplier, and the prizes are horrible, making
> the $150 investment in platinum (which was surprisingly easy to find)
> well worth the price. I would rather use vanadium(V)oxide for the H2SO4,
> but that's regulated too! <RANT>All these regulations are very very
> annoying. I'm not a fucking terrorist, I just want to test rocket
> engines! *sigh*
> </RANT>
Have you tried using differences in solubilities? It might be easier.
I don't have references handy, and it was long ago, but if NH4NO3 is
your goal and KNO3 and NH3 are availible, you might reduce acetic
acid, (I can't envision white vinegar being banned, or too expensive),
to ammonium acetate, mix with and disolve KNO3, and evaporate,
filtering out the first substance to precipitate.
I believe that the potassium acetate would drop out first, leaving
NH4 NO3 in solution, (better check this, as I said, it was long ago).
At any rate, the solubilities should be different enough to drive the
reaction and give you product pure enough for solid rocket fuel.
CAUTION: NH4NO3 / Fuel mixtures have been known to detonate rather
than deflagrate. This is also possible with NH4NO3 alone.
The stuff is known to be hard to initiate but the possibility does
exist, and could turn a rocket casing into a fragmentation bomb.
BTW - You might find NH4NO3 fuel too 'hot` for your casings or
nozzles. (NH4)2CO3 - (all gases in decomposition) might be handy as a
moderator.
Have fun, like porcupines mate, - carefully!
Pragmatist
Where is Madame DeFarge now, when we really need her?
hanson
> >From: "hanson" han...@quick.net
> >Sulfur deliveries in molten form. Certainly.
> >Standard gig like deliveries of molten asphalt.
>
> Until the green shits put up a bigger stink ...
> We had to convert over from that due to "environmental concerns"
> ... which raised the costs drastically
> ...It used to get pumped off a barge ...
> Be seeing you
> In the Village
> Number 6
>
Wow, typical! What exactly were those "environmental concerns"
that the green envire turds objected to?
Of course the concerns were all "POTENTIAL" only. None real. Right?
For almost a hundred years things went cool and honkey-dory,
until the green motherfickers had to come along and siphon money off
the deal with permit costs and user fees, to pay for their fat salaries
and yet fatter pensions.......unabashedly und shamelessly ficking every
body else in the process, especially the working people, by stealing
their raises and bonuses and making the product costlier for
everyone else.
And almost nobody protests against their type of terrorism.
It is disgusting. But I say: Fuck the green shits! Even on X-mas!
ahahaha......ahahahahanson
PS:
Repeat story: The green turds came into the division to assess the
permit fee conditions for the Cyanide user fees and storage fees.
Their initial questions were:
"How does Cyanide look like? Is it as dangerous as they say it is?
We have never seen Cyanide, and they didn't show us any"
New green shit story just off the wires:
Out in the SF Bay area the green shits are suing each other over the
el-gen windmill issue. One green turd faction, the one that gets the
extorted money now for the operating renewal permits for the mills,
says that this windpower/renewable energy production is necessary
for "sustainable clean development" .....BUT, the other one that wants
to get their green claws also into this green honey-money pot whines
and sheds green crocodile tears that it is not "sustainable" for the
birds that get killed by the propeller blades of the wind mills.
Now watch,....as soon as the green "save the birds" faction gets a
"kill avoidance" fee from the "propeller" fee recipients, or can charge
a new, additional fee for each dead bird (even for the ones that don't
get killed but could POTENTIALLY get killed)...... then suddenly....
the fucking birds won't matter any longer and the issue will quietly
be shelved, showing again that:
=== Environmentalism is just a despicable, evil money (green) game, ===
=== without any redeeming value, nor any intent to save anything. This ==-
=== scam has come to an end. Now, all the green shits are whining... ===
-----***** start: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----
"I got the impression that instead of going out to shoot birds,
I should go out and shoot the kids who shoot birds."
-- Paul Watson, founder of Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd
"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic
statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have.
Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being
effective and being honest."
- Stephen Schneider (Stanford professor who first sought fame as
a global cooler, but has now hit the big time as a global warmer)
"If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
-- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.
"A lot of environmental messages are simply not accurate. But
that's the way we sell messages in this society. We use hype."
-- Dr. Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, Univ.of Washington
"We already have too much economic growth in the United States.
Economic growth in rich countries like ours is the disease, not the cure."
-- Paul Elrich, Stanford U biologist and Advisor to Vice President Gore
"A global climate treaty must be implemented even if there is no
scientific evidence to back the greenhouse effect."
-- Richard Benedict, an employee for the State Department working
on assignment for the Conservation Foundation
"We in the Green movement, aspire to a cultural model in which
the killing of a forest will be considered more contemptible and more
criminal than the sale of 6-year-old children to Asian brothels."
-- Carl Amery, Green Party of West Germany
-----***** end: Quotes from environmental leaders *****-----
**********************************************
Tim Miller
> > > "Anders V" <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message
> > > news:mRZEb.43038$dP1.1...@newsc.telia.net...
> > >
> > >>I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I could
> > >>really use some help here.
> > >>I'm going to try making conc. sulfuric acid by dry distilling
> > >>dessicated Fe2SO4x7H2O.
> > >> From what I've read, at a temperature of approx. 500 degrees C,
> > >>FeSO4 breaks down into FeO + SO3, the latter which I intend to
> > >>cool by passing it through a Liebig cooler and then passing
> > >>it into some water i a flask submerged in an ice bath.
> > >>Does any of this make sense, or am I way off?
> > >>/A
> > >
>
> You already have your ferrous sulphate, but ferric sulphate, or ferric
> alum would work even better. This method of preparation is thousands
> of years old.
>
How did the ancients prepare the sulphates? Roasting pyrite? What did
they use sulphuric acid for anyway?
Steve Turner
>> In other words, you dislike controls over things you might personally
>> use, but controls on things for which you have no desire are OK.
>
>Yes.
You admit it ... and apparently see nothing wrong with it.
>> That kind of selfish thinking is all too common.
>
>Is it?
Do you, or do you not, object to controls on the chemicals you wish to
buy?
Those controls are in place largely because some people thought that
those chemicals were too dangerous for people like you to have, and
therefore demanded controls on them. Selfish people, who had no use
of those chemicals themselves. People like you. The only difference
is the object of their irrational fear. For you it's guns.
Steve Turner
>Not quite. I know the quote well, though. However, personally I'm
>opposed to restrictions concerning mostly everything --- apart from
>guns. I'd rather get hit by an iron pipe when getting mugged than
>shot, thank you very much.
Perhaps if you had a gun in the first place, you wouldn't be getting
mugged to begin with.
Steve Turner
>Unlikely. Is not SO2 odorless? And the fumes definitively did
>_not_ smell of rotten eggs, so H2S is out of the question.
>Also, the remains of the fired pile was a black powdery subtance
>suspiciously reminiscent of FeO.
SO2 is hardly odorless. You might want to learn some chemistry before
dinking around trying to make sulfuric acid.
Paddy
> > alum would work even better. This method of preparation is thousands
> > of years old.
> >
>
> How did the ancients prepare the sulphates? Roasting pyrite? What did
> they use sulphuric acid for anyway?
>
Evaporite deposits on cave walls, is what I read.
I suppose there must have been some practical applications. I
remember reading of the use of acids in the jewellry of gold and it's
alloys, but always there was the quest to produce gold from base
metals.
Anders V
> Anders V <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote:
>
>
>>>In other words, you dislike controls over things you might personally
>>>use, but controls on things for which you have no desire are OK.
>>
>>Yes.
>
>
> You admit it ... and apparently see nothing wrong with it.
>
No? Why should I object to my own morality?
>
>>>That kind of selfish thinking is all too common.
>>
>>Is it?
>
>
> Do you, or do you not, object to controls on the chemicals you wish to
> buy?
I DO object to those controls.
Anders V
> Anders V <axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org> wrote in message news:<qtcGb.39625$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net>...
>
>
>>Actually no, I'm not a student as such. I'm researching high performance
>>rocket fuels as a hobby. I've played with the KN/sugar based
>>propellants for a year, but I want a higher burn rate. That means
>>I need e.g. ammonium nitrate. Which is also regulated. Ammonia is not.
>>Neither is potassium nitrate. Hence I need nitric acid, to _make_ AN.
>>Amazingly enough, potassium perchlorate isn't regulated (yet), but so
>>far I've only found one supplier, and the prizes are horrible, making
>>the $150 investment in platinum (which was surprisingly easy to find)
>>well worth the price. I would rather use vanadium(V)oxide for the H2SO4,
>>but that's regulated too! <RANT>All these regulations are very very
>>annoying. I'm not a fucking terrorist, I just want to test rocket
>>engines! *sigh*
>></RANT>
>
>
> Have you tried using differences in solubilities? It might be easier.
> I don't have references handy, and it was long ago, but if NH4NO3 is
> your goal and KNO3 and NH3 are availible, you might reduce acetic
Far too complicated and unneeded. I COULD get ammonium nirate legally,
but I'd prefer not to draw attention to my little rocket experiments.
> acid, (I can't envision white vinegar being banned, or too expensive),
> to ammonium acetate, mix with and disolve KNO3, and evaporate,
> filtering out the first substance to precipitate.
> I believe that the potassium acetate would drop out first, leaving
> NH4 NO3 in solution, (better check this, as I said, it was long ago).
> At any rate, the solubilities should be different enough to drive the
> reaction and give you product pure enough for solid rocket fuel.
> CAUTION: NH4NO3 / Fuel mixtures have been known to detonate rather
> than deflagrate. This is also possible with NH4NO3 alone.
> The stuff is known to be hard to initiate but the possibility does
> exist, and could turn a rocket casing into a fragmentation bomb.
> BTW - You might find NH4NO3 fuel too 'hot` for your casings or
> nozzles. (NH4)2CO3 - (all gases in decomposition) might be handy as a
I know, I've even had a KNDX engine going CATO and leaving a crater.
Luckily I'm the paranoid kind using a 25 meter cable and lieing on
the ground wearing a WW2 steel helmet when tesing.
Andrew Tweddle
>
> Perhaps if you had a gun in the first place, you wouldn't be getting
> mugged to begin with.
>
>
Probably not, as consequences to the young testosterone charged male are
usually something they have learn't not to appreciate or if they have
have worked out how to avoid, like for instance by carrying a gun
themselves and using it when they feel threatened by the muggee.
Tim Miller
> >From: ">x...@ptd.ne>
>
> >Having spent more years than I want to remember working in a sulfur
> >burning acid plant, SO2 is an acrid smell that smells like the a
> >''strike on box match" smells like for the first instant after
> >striking. SO3 is supposedly odorless,
>
> Sulfur deliveries in molten form ???
> That always amazed me ...
>
Rember the Marine Sulphur Queen? This converted oil tanker transported
molten sulphur for about 3 years until it dissappeared in 1963 off
the Florida Keys. This event helped start the "Burmuda Triangle" bs.
pragmatist
>
> I know, I've even had a KNDX engine going CATO and leaving a crater.
> Luckily I'm the paranoid kind using a 25 meter cable and lieing on
> the ground wearing a WW2 steel helmet when tesing.
>
>
In the old days, (we lived in a city), I had to test my motors on a
horizontal stand in a sand trench with an improvised scale and timing
drum for thrust stripcharts.
The occaisional failures were impressive enough to make me worry
about a low airburst on a standard vertical launch.
BTW Did you misread my suggestion, or did I misapprehend your
situation?
If the direct route I suggested is more complicated than making one
acid to obtain another, to synthesize the final product, one of us
missed something somewhere.
Of course, if - "It's the journey thats important, not the
destination." - I can appreciate that.
Ah youth! - Pragmatist
LOUIS
lead to butyric acid eeuuhhhhhhh ;-)
Joke appart, SO3 may be part of the equation but O2, SO2, Fe2O3 too.
2FeSO4 --> Fe2O3 +2SO2 + 1/2O2
Ph Z
Anders V wrote:
> Repeating Rifle wrote:
> > in article AS_Eb.39204$mU6.1...@newsb.telia.net, Anders V at
> > axeh...@linuxmailNOSPAM.org wrote on 12/20/03 8:34 AM:
> >
> >
> >>Where I live, you need a permit (!) to buy acids. Hence me need.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Where do you live?
>
> Sweden. Basically you need a permit for everything except milk...
>
> >
> > I have some problems as well. To get (almost) concentrated sulfuric acid, I
> > bought some drain cleaner containing warnings about sulfuric acid at a local
> > Ace hardware store.
> >
> > Bill
> >