Mysterious exploding fish
Paul Gillingwater
OK skeptics and scientists, please explain this event, which happened
here in New Zealand yesterday:
A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
She had cut off the head, and was slicing along the backbone with
a sharp knife on a wooden cutting board.
Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
the police, and investigation showed the following:
o There were burn marks INSIDE the fish
o A chunk of the metal of the knife had been taken out
The fish had been purchased recently from her normal supplier.
Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
--
Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
al...@campus.swarthmore.edu
In article <1990May18.2...@actrix.co.nz>, pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) writes...
explanations:
1> the mercury content in the fish spontaneously produced mercury fulmanate,
which is a mild percussion explosive (this is, many would say, impossible)
2> white phosphorus deposited itself somewhere in the back of this fish, in an
air-tight envelope. once exposed to air it exploded (this is, many would say,
equally impossible)
3> high radiation levels from the bikini atoll nuclear bomb testings have
finally produced the first mutant exploding fish, precursor to the ert-teldens
of the gamma world role-playing game (this is, many would now insist,
absolutely impossible)
4> this was one of the bizarre occurances that keeps publications such as the
sun and weekly world news
>--
>Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
al...@campus.swarthmore.edu
In article <M55...@xavier.swarthmore.edu>, al...@campus.swarthmore.edu
writes...
> air-tight envelope. once exposed to air it exploded (this is, many would say,
> equally impossible)
>
> 3> high radiation levels from the bikini atoll nuclear bomb testings have
> finally produced the first mutant exploding fish, precursor to the ert-teldens
> of the gamma world role-playing game (this is, many would now insist,
> absolutely impossible)
>
> 4> this was one of the bizarre occurances that keeps publications such as the
> possible)
>>--
>>Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
Russell Turpin
In article <1990May18.2...@actrix.co.nz>, pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) writes:
> A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking. ...
>
> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! ...
Decomposition had caused a small amount of methane to collect
in the fish's intestine or other internal body cavity. By
rare coincidence (a) the concentration was great enough to
support ignition and (b) a single action of the knife managed
to cause this.
Russell
Jerry Lotto
Paul> A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
...
Paul> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
...
Paul> Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
Cold Fusion.
--
Jerry Lotto <lo...@lhasa.harvard.edu> "Have you hugged the curves today?"
Chemistry Dept., Harvard Univ. AMA #520019 DoD #018 HOG #0323880
Gary Benson
>A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
>Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
>the police, and investigation showed the following:
>
> o There were burn marks INSIDE the fish
> o A chunk of the metal of the knife had been taken out
>
>Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
Strange... the only possible explanation I can think of is that somehow,
someway this fish swallowed something like part of a magnesium flare, and
that his body somehow swaddled it in a protective cyst. When the woman cut
into it, she exposed the magnesium to air and it ignited.
This theory ought to be easily disproved or proven by close examination of
the fish -- please keep us informed if and when anything more is learned.
A really interesting case.
--
Gary Benson -=[ S M I L E R ]=- -_-_-...@fluke.tc.com_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. -Goethe
al...@campus.swarthmore.edu
In article <1990May19.1...@tc.fluke.COM>, i...@tc.fluke.COM (Gary Benson) writes...
>In article <1990May18.2...@actrix.co.nz> pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) writes:
>
>>A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
>Strange... the only possible explanation I can think of is that somehow,
>someway this fish swallowed something like part of a magnesium flare, and
>that his body somehow swaddled it in a protective cyst. When the woman cut
>into it, she exposed the magnesium to air and it ignited.
>
>This theory ought to be easily disproved or proven by close examination of
>the fish -- please keep us informed if and when anything more is learned.
and magnesium quickly forms Mg(OH)2 in water; more quickly than a flounder
could swallow it...
and a flounder is hardly large enough to swallow any part of a magnesium
flare.
the list goes on and on :)
>Gary Benson -=[ S M I L E R ]=- -_-_-...@fluke.tc.com_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
=====STARMAN==
Mark Robert Thorson
the scene of a WW2 battle. The remains of the cartridge may have been
flicked away by the explosion. I've heard that some old ammo can become
really unstable, due to formation of metal ion complexes between the
powder and the casing.
Paul Gillingwater
>-Message-Text-Follows-
>>A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
>>She had cut off the head, and was slicing along the backbone with
>>a sharp knife on a wooden cutting board.
>>
>>Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
>>the police, and investigation showed the following:
>explanations:
> 1> the mercury content in the fish spontaneously produced mercury fulmanate,
> which is a mild percussion explosive (this is, many would say, impossible)
>
> 2> white phosphorus deposited itself somewhere in the back of this fish, in an
> air-tight envelope. once exposed to air it exploded (this is, many would say,
> equally impossible)
>
> 3> high radiation levels from the bikini atoll nuclear bomb testings have
> finally produced the first mutant exploding fish, precursor to the ert-teldens
> of the gamma world role-playing game (this is, many would now insist,
> absolutely impossible)
>
> 4> this was one of the bizarre occurances that keeps publications such as the
> sun and weekly world news
Further news reports in respected media here in NZ reveal the following:
1. The woman is elderly, but not insane or feeble-minded.
2. Some fishermen use bullets to kill fish, but this has not been
reported as an option with a flat fish.
3. Police suspect that an electric jug cord was cut into, however..
4. The woman claims that the jug cord was no where near the chopping board
>>--
>>Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
--
Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
Hugh Moore
An Israeli special forces officer had his glider blown off course, and
landed in New Zealand instead of the Philipines. In a fit of rage, he
fired off a single round which entered the fish, struck the knife, and
exploded.
Mad Uncle
Richard A. Schumacher
>Further news reports in respected media here in NZ reveal the following:
>1. The woman is elderly, but not insane or feeble-minded.
>2. Some fishermen use bullets to kill fish, but this has not been
> reported as an option with a flat fish.
>3. Police suspect that an electric jug cord was cut into, however..
>4. The woman claims that the jug cord was no where near the chopping board
A-HA! Yup, it's an old story: we tend to assume that we've
been given all the facts and construct our theories without
asking further questions.
Shorting out a lamp cord, then denying the possibility out
of embarassment is far more likely than mercury fulminate,
methane explosion, WWII ammo, etc.
How easy it is to forget to be skeptical when presented
with a novel mystery!
pie...@cimnet.dec.com
Schumacher) writes, in part:
>pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) writes:
>>Further news reports in respected media here in NZ reveal the following:
>>2. Some fishermen use bullets to kill fish, but this has not been
_so_ unlikely in this cas as as to be unlikely. On the chance that 3 & 4
don't resolve it, are these fish "bottom feeders"? In the "bad old days"
various sorts of things, specifically including obsolete or unusable munitions
were dumped in the ocean. Any sort of small arms primer would, i think, match
the description. Should be traces in the fish remains.
>>3. Police suspect that an electric jug cord was cut into, however..
>>4. The woman claims that the jug cord was no where near the chopping board
>A-HA! Yup, it's an old story: we tend to assume that we've
>been given all the facts and construct our theories without
>asking further questions.
Simple inquiry: Has anybody LOOKED at the lamp cord??
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation |the opinions, my own.
600 Nickerson Rd
Marlboro, Mass
01752 pie...@cimnet.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to this credit, written nothing" A J Raffles
Jonathan King
> >>>>> On 18 May 90 21:26:47 GMT, pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) said:
>
> Paul> A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
> ...
> Paul> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
> ...
> Paul> Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
>
> Cold Fusion.
I think the phenomenon is much more likely to be Cold Fission...
> --
> Jerry Lotto <lo...@lhasa.harvard.edu> "Have you hugged the curves today?"
> Chemistry Dept., Harvard Univ. AMA #520019 DoD #018 HOG
#0323880
jking
Jeff Forbes
>
>Oops, I meant PHOSOPHORUS, of course, which as I proved in school explodes
>violently when put in contact with WATER...(thus it is sometimes stored
>under kerosene).
You are thinking of sodium metal. White phosphorous is stored under
water, since it is not stable in air and it is highly toxic. Red
phosphorous is stable in air and is the form that is used most often
commercially and it is not very toxic. Sodium metal reacts violently
with water and is stored under kerosene or mineral oil.
Jeff Forbes
'85 FJ1100 pilot - Yet to find any twisties in Illinois.
Gary Benson
First I said:
>> that somehow this fish swallowed something like part of a magnesium
>> flare, and that his body somehow swaddled it in a protective cyst. When
>> the woman cut into it, she exposed the magnesium to air and it ignited.
then =====STARMAN== retorted:
> magnesium doesn't ignite from exposure to air and magnesium quickly forms
> Mg(OH)2 in water; more quickly than a flounder could swallow it... and a
> flounder is hardly large enough to swallow any part of a magnesium flare.
Oops, I meant PHOSOPHORUS, of course, which as I proved in school explodes
violently when put in contact with WATER...(thus it is sometimes stored
under kerosene). My "cyst" was to keep the stuff out of contact with the
water natureally in the fish'es body...and uh, the fish was supposed to have
swallowed part of a rusted out old flare near a WWII plane crash or ship
sinking.
Then again, maybe the ditzy old broad just cut into a lamp cord.
--
Gary Benson -=[ S M I L E R ]=- -_-_-...@fluke.tc.com_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
Somebody said to me, "But the Beatles were antimaterialistic".
That's a huge myth. John and I literally used to sit down and say
"Now, let's write a swimming pool". -Paul McCartney
Jim Meritt
}lo...@lamia.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
}> >>>>> On 18 May 90 21:26:47 GMT, pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) said:
}>
}> Paul> A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
}> ...
}> Paul> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
}> ...
}> Paul> Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
}>
}> Cold Fusion.
}
}I think the phenomenon is much more likely to be Cold Fission...
Are you sure it was a flounder? It might have been Cod fusion...
That that is is that that is. That that is not is that that is not.
That that is is not that that is not. That that is not is not that that is.
And that includes these opinions, which are solely mine!
j...@aplvax.jhuapl.edu - or - j...@aplvax.uucp - or - meritt%aplvm.BITNET
Paul Gillingwater
We didn't have any WW2 battles down here in NZ. Plus a flounder has
a very small mouth, and would be unable to swallow any portion of
a cartridge large enough to retain its envelope integrity (i.e. keep
the powder dry).
Police forensics have not found a bullet anywhere, and anyway, the spent
cartridge should also be in the room, thus doubling the chance of finding
something...
Can some other NZ net people comment if you have heard any more? I know
that fisheries research are on the net... c'mon guys...
--
Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
I walk this way because I have to
In article <LOTTO.90M...@lamia.harvard.edu> lo...@lamia.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
|>>>>> On 18 May 90 21:26:47 GMT, pa...@actrix.co.nz (Paul Gillingwater) said:
|
|Paul> A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
|...
|Paul> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
|...
|Paul> Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
|
|Cold Fusion.
Cold Fishin', more like.
--
Alastair Sutherland, Computing Services Projects Guy, The Santa Cruz Operation
alas...@sco.com (E-I-E-I-O) - or - uunet!sco!alastair - or - (408) 425-7222
"I always thought that if you have too many errors that the compiler catches,
the compiler should aid your program development by deleting the source."
-- meis...@osf.org
Kim DeVaughn
> In article <1990May21.0...@tc.fluke.COM> i...@tc.fluke.COM (Gary Benson) writes:
> >
> >Oops, I meant PHOSOPHORUS, of course, which as I proved in school explodes
>
Or quite possibly metalic potassium. Though sodium does give you a bigger
"bang", gram for gram.
WRT the fish ... I don't suppose this could have been a previously undiscovered
species of "blowfish", could it ...?
/kim
--
UUCP: k...@amdahl.amdahl.com
or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,uunet,oliveb,ames}!amdahl!kim
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BIX: kdevaughn GEnie: K.DEVAUGHN CIS: 76535,25
Paul Gillingwater
today's daily newspaper here in New Zealand:
"The Dominion", Monday May 21, 1990
"The case of the flounder which exploded in a Wellington women's
kitchen on Friday has fisheries scientists puzzled -- but a clue may lie
in whether the unfortunate fish had been filleted.
"The elderly woman, who declined to talk about the incident
yesterday, told police she had been cutting the spine of the fish when
it exploded.
"The explosion burned the fish's insides and left burn marks
on the knife and wrapper.
"According to Agriculture and Fisheries Ministry pathologist Mike
Hine, the only explosive substance found in fish is methane gas -- which
was highly explosive -- and the woman may have released the gas when
she cut into the fish's bowel.
"But he said 'a tremendously strict combination of the amount
of gas, a flame, and ignitiion' was need to set of an explosion.
"'I've been a professional scientist for 20 years and I have
never heard an account like this before. A lot of fish I cut up do
have gas in the bowel and it is methane, so it would be expected, under
the right circumstances, it could happen,' he said.
...
"Another possibility is that the explosion could have been
sparked by a buildup of static electricity, not in the fish, but in
the knife and the bench used, according to the ministry's fisheries
research head, John McCoy."
SO the case of the mysterious exploding fish is not yet solved, but
will no doubt be added to the store of unexplained events...
--
Paul Gillingwater, pa...@actrix.co.nz
MURRAY,JEFFREY P
Some of the other explanations put forth may work in
conjunction with the following, but there have been
cases in the literature describing incidents where
relatively unknowledgable folks have mistaken electric
rays for flounder. In some cases, the mistaken individuals
have fileted and eaten the rays (which supposedly do
taste pretty good!). In any event, I would think that,
since the electric organs run along the backbone of the
ray, there is certainly a good possibility of "shorting"
the tissues through the knife blade...don't know if there's
enough power there to melt the blade, and I don't know
whether the event would cause any acoustic side-effects
(like the "popping" sound you get when you short out a really
big capacitor), but it does provide one more possibility!
.
--
MURRAY,JEFFREY P
Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332
uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!jm67
Internet: jm...@prism.gatech.edu
Walter Rolandi
Naw man, who'd believe a lotta hooey like that?
What really happened was some space monsters--you know, chariots of the
gods type guys--were down there looking for Elvis. Anyway, they were
trying to get the King to chanel through a fish when that dizzy old
broad hadda go ahead and stab the fishy, effectively ruining all short
term hope for seeing another Come Back Tour--at least in this astral
plane, anytime soon.
Don't believe it? Just ask the FBI? They got files on the whole
thing. They found out about it by running a wire into Shirley MacLane's
medulla oblongata. I got the transcripts through personal connections
in the CIA. I can't say anything else about this stuff. I know you
probably want to know more. This is just one of those times when you're
going to have to put national security ahead of your enquiring mind.
Gotta go. My wristwatch is ringing.
***************************************
* Walter G. Rolandi *
* Horizon Research, Inc. *
* 1432 Main Street *
* Waltham, MA 02154 USA *
* (617) 466 8339 *
* *
* rol...@hri.com *
***************************************
Charles Poirier
that took the bait and got away?
Wilson Heydt
>
>Strange... the only possible explanation I can think of is that somehow,
>someway this fish swallowed something like part of a magnesium flare, and
>that his body somehow swaddled it in a protective cyst. When the woman cut
>into it, she exposed the magnesium to air and it ignited.
Magnesium does not ignite spontaneously--nor should part of a flare.
--Hal
=======================================================================
Hal Heydt | An earthquake is Mother Nature's
Analyst, Pacific*Bell | "silent" pager going off . . .
415-823-5447 |
w...@pbhya.PacBell.COM |
Ted Powell
>A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
>She had cut off the head, and was slicing along the backbone with
>a sharp knife on a wooden cutting board.
> o There were burn marks INSIDE the fish
> o A chunk of the metal of the knife had been taken out
Several people have suggested that the nearby electrical cord was
involved, and I go along with that, mainly on the strength of the
missing chunk of metal from the knife. Most postulated kinds of
explosion simply couldn't do that. On the other hand, this is exactly
what I would expect, on the basis of personal experience, from cutting
into a wire. (Years ago, moving into a new--to me--apartment, I found a
length of twisted lamp cord that emerged from the woodwork, ran along a
few feet, and disappeared under the wallpaper. I went to remove it with
a kitchen knife...)
A key observation would be whether there are in fact _two_ chunks
out of the knife, or a single chunk with two lobes, with the distance
apart being comparable with the distance between the conductors in a
typical electrical cord. When one slices into a cord like this, the
greatest current density is in the immediate vicinity of the two points
of contact between the conductors and the thin edge of the knife. If the
damage to the knife is this shape, I would consider it to be conclusive.
Even if there is only a single, roughly semicircular, piece missing,
it could be that the blade only contacted a single conductor, and the
circuit was completed through the fish, the wet cutting board, and
whatever, to ground.
As noted in another posting, she _did_ think she was cutting into the
spine of the fish, so the feel of cutting into the cord would not have
been unexpected.
The fact (reported in another posting) that the person concerned is no
longer talking about the incident is also suggestive.
--
t...@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca ...!ubc-cs!van-bc!eslvcr!ted (Ted Powell)
David Paterson
This reminds me of an incident that happened two years ago off Bribie
Island (Australia). Some fishermen picked up old ammunition that had been
dumped after WWII with their catch. Authorities warned that the slightest
knock could have set it off.
This makes me wonder what your fish ate for lunch.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Paterson,
CSIRO Division of Building, Construction and Engineering,
Highett, Victoria, 3190, AUSTRALIA
dav...@dbrmelb.dbrhi.oz.au
Jeff Frank
>>
>> Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
>> the police, and investigation showed the following:
>>
out. I have watched this discussion for a couple of days and thought it had
gone far enough so you would not mind me splicing a request in.
I am involved with a closed email group which is currently discussing the
salvation of wild populations of killifish. We are all killikeepers and
want to know things like, "How many fish of a wild strain are needed to
begin a species maintenance effort to stack the deck in favor of keeping
phenotype, if not genotype, stable from F0 thru FX (where X= infinity)?"
One of our number has written a program in C to model hypothetical
species maintenance efforts. I would like it to be a bit better at dealing
with traits which are not simply dominant/recessive. When "values" for a
given gene exceed 2 the program gives what I feel are misleading results.
Basically the program has a random number generator which causes output
file to show "loss" of genes (alleles?) much sooner than I would expect.
It just settles on one value that after several generations, is shown to be
the only value left.
Does anyone have a simple program written in C which might better deal with
this genetic problem? An algorithim is probably sufficient. It is hoped
we can spearhead a worldwide program to preserve these and other fauna, and
good models will help lay groundwork.
jeff
Steve Balogh
>commercially and it is not very toxic. Sodium metal reacts violently
>with water and is stored under kerosene or mineral oil.
Which kind of makes it hard for it to get TO THE FISH. Fish tend to live in
water. Unless, of course, the fish saw this this lump of sodium metal dropping
towards it from above the water, lept out of the water, and then swallowed the
sodium. (which would probably burn the fish's guts out at that very moment)
Steve
----_--_-_-_--_-__-_------_-__---_-___-_----_-____-_-_--__-_--_--___-_-_-_--__-_
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Melbourne, AUSTRALIA. 3145 | +61 3 573 2266
Kenneth Ng
: into a wire. (Years ago, moving into a new--to me--apartment, I found a
: length of twisted lamp cord that emerged from the woodwork, ran along a
: few feet, and disappeared under the wallpaper. I went to remove it with
: a kitchen knife...)
When I was helping my dad put in a wall airconditioner at my parents old
place (well, more of him doing it and me watching), we had to disconnect
power from an outlet in the wall just as a precaution in case we ran over
its power line. So we found the wire in the basement and disconnected it.
On went the saber saw, cutting a hole in the wall, then *ZAP*. The breaker
to the saw blew and we heard something underneath the wall. A good
inches was missing from the saw blade, which we never found. The idiot
that wired up the place had *TWO* possible paths for power to get there.
One set of wires came from below, which makes sense since the house power
panel was right underneath. The other set of wires got power from the
second floor above us! So from that point on, we checked the power to
make sure it goes out, which I guess we really should have done in the
first place.
--
Kenneth Ng: Post office: NJIT - CCCC, Newark New Jersey 07102
uucp !andromeda!galaxy!argus!ken *** NOT k...@bellcore.uucp ***
bitnet(prefered) k...@orion.bitnet or k...@orion.njit.edu
Peter da Silva
Cod fusion.
--
`-_-' Peter da Silva. +1 713 274 5180. <pe...@ficc.ferranti.com>
'U` Have you hugged your wolf today? <pe...@sugar.hackercorp.com>
@FIN Dirty words: Zhghnyyl erphefvir vayvar shapgvbaf.
Nichael Cramer
> lo...@lamia.harvard.edu (Jerry Lotto) writes:
>> Cold Fusion.
>Cod fusion.
No, no, no...
He means Cold Fishin'...
Paul Johnson
>OK skeptics and scientists, please explain this event, which happened
>here in New Zealand yesterday:
>A women was preparing a flounder (a type of flatfish) for cooking.
>She had cut off the head, and was slicing along the backbone with
>a sharp knife on a wooden cutting board.
>Suddenly, there was a loud bang and a flash of light! She called
>the police, and investigation showed the following:
> o There were burn marks INSIDE the fish
> o A chunk of the metal of the knife had been taken out
>The fish had been purchased recently from her normal supplier.
>Explanations, anyone? This is *not* an urban myth. It happened.
OK. I enjoy flexing my skeptical muscles, so here goes.
First: evidence, sources. Where did you hear of this? local paper,
radio news, friend of a friend? What evidence do you have that this
was not an urban myth (I leave aside the possibility that this is your
idea of a joke, or maybe hers. Some people will do anything to get on
telly). Note that local and national media have been known to
propogate urban myths, so having heard it on the news is no proof.
Assuming it actually happened, here are some off-the-cuff theories:
Flounders are bottom-dwellers, eating random garbage that sinks down
from above. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that this
flounder ingested a chunk of explosive which detonated when it was cut
open. Not knowing how to gut fish or anything about the anatomy of
flounders, I cannot comment on whether this could place it near the
backbone. The explosive could have come from military exercises,
geological surveys or illegal fish dynamiting (to name three possible
sources). Pressure, age and environment would combine to make it
unstable and likely to go off at a touch.
OR
Perhaps the fish was not too fresh. Maybe some methane or something
built up inside the fish. Ignition is a problem: I can't quite see a
spark from the knife doing it. On the other hand there would be some
pretty weird chemistry in a rotting fish, and maybe some minor
component of the gas self-ignited on contact with air. UV from
sunlight might do this as well.
Thats two guesses to keep you going. Anyone actualy analyse the fish
for residues from explosives? How big was the chunk of knife that
went missing?
Paul.
--
Paul Johnson UUCP: <world>!mcvax!ukc!gec-mrc!paj
--------------------------------!-------------------------|-------------------
GEC-Marconi Research is not | Telex: 995016 GECRES G | Tel: +44 245 73331
responsible for my opinions. | Inet: p...@uk.co.gec-mrc | Fax: +44 245 75244
Jim Hurst
>
>I am involved with a closed email group which is currently discussing the
>salvation of wild populations of killifish. We are all killikeepers and
>want to know things like, "How many fish of a wild strain are needed to
>begin a species maintenance effort to stack the deck in favor of keeping
>phenotype, if not genotype, stable from F0 thru FX (where X= infinity)?"
>...
>Does anyone have a simple program written in C which might better deal with
>this genetic problem? An algorithim is probably sufficient. It is hoped
>we can spearhead a worldwide program to preserve these and other fauna, and
>good models will help lay groundwork.
The book The Fragemented Forest, by Larry Harris, contains a good summary of
population genetics, including a discussion of the minimum viable population.
MVP varies greatly among species, dependent on things like generational overlap,
breeding habits, ratio of males to females in the breeding pool, etc. The
genetic resources of a species include much more than is observable from
gross anatomy, and calculations can be made as to the percent of the genetic
variation of a species is contained in (and can be preserved by) a given number
of individuals. Both the width (number of individuals) and the length (number
of generations) of a bottleneck greatly affect the amount of genetic diversity
of a population reduced to a small percentage of its original size. The book
also contains pointers to more in depth research.
Since you're explicitly interested in species preservation, I would recommend
the book Viable Populations for Conservation, edited by Michael Soule,
Cambridge University Press, $16.95 ISBN 0-521-33657-0 I haven't read it,
but the review says "Adresses the most recent research in the rapidly
developing integration of conservation biology with population biology."
Cheers,
Jim Hurst
PS: You're not the same Jeff Frank I knew in Cambridge in 1979-1983 are you?
Scott D McGinnis
>
>>OK skeptics and scientists, please explain this event, which happened
Heres a thought. Flounder are a favorite of spear fisherman
so perhaps an explosive spear head or the explosive component
of same, was lodged w/in the fishes tissues. when the knife hit
it ... KERPOW!
Scott
Mark Robert Thorson
animals, Dave Barry of the _Miami_Herald_. Today, I received a reply,
quoted here in its entirety:
> Mark -
>
> These people need a _hobby_.
>
> Dave Barry, M.D.
Obviously Dr. Barry has missed the whole point. What we have built
here is an international network which informs us in a timely fashion
of exploding animals anywhere in the English-speaking world.
Maybe this particular incident was simply a case of a cut lamp cord,
but the _next_ time a fish explodes, we will indeed be prepared to
handle the situation. While the experts are scratching their heads,
a Usenetter will step forward to ask all the right questions. Have people
been fishing with handguns in the vicinity? Is anyone missing a lump
of metallic sodium or white phosphorus? Within a matter of days -- or at
most a few weeks -- the truth will be ferretted out. The world can rest
easier tonight knowing that Usenet is on guard!
Mike Gagnon
>most a few weeks -- the truth will be ferretted out. The world can rest
>easier tonight knowing that Usenet is on guard!
But this was never resolved! There was alot of speculation, alot of
theories, alot of dumb jokes, but no substantial explanation!
I'm skeptical that the skeptics can explain this one.
It seems that there has been more time spent being skeptic,
than there has been trying to find the truth behind this mystery.
Or am I missing the point and everyone is just being skeptical about
weather or not this actually happened.
Mike.
Phil Gustafson
Nobody can "explain" this one because there isn't enough information.
All we have is:
1. Lady cut into fish, fish blew up and gouged knife.
2. Maybe she cut into an electrical cord too.
The lady is apparently shy about making statements, the fish is long
gone, and the knife is not available (to us) for examination.
Several dozen articles after the fact, we have no more data than we
started with. But, until someone _does_ find out what happened, we
have to assume that whatever happened had a simple cause.
If the lady cut into a tiny UFO instead of an electrical cord, it's someone
else's problem to prove it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions outside attributed quotations are mine alone.
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| ph...@zorch.SF-Bay.ORG | Phil Gustafson
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Marcus J. Ranum
>But this was never resolved! There was alot of speculation, alot of
>theories, alot of dumb jokes, but no substantial explanation!
The simplest theory I can come up with is:
"the whole thing was made up."
I wonder if Occam's razor holds in this case ?
--
DISCLAIMER:
These opinions are not mine - they're yours. In fact, this entire
posting is your fault, and you are wholly responsible for my statements.
Clay Phipps
v151...@ubvmsa.cc.buffalo.edu writes:
>In article <5...@argus.mrcu>, paj@mrcu (Paul Johnson) writes...
>>
>>>OK skeptics and scientists, please explain this event, which happened
>
>Flounder are a favorite of spear fisherman
>so perhaps an explosive spear head or the explosive component of same,
>was lodged w/in the fishes tissues.
>when the knife hit it ... KERPOW!
No one (that I recall) reported the size of the allegedly exploding fish,
but on the off-chance that the idea above was offered seriously:
An ordinary speargun of moderate size (well shorter than 1 meter/3 feet)
and spear strength--with a sharp nonexploding point--is adequate
to take halibut (1 meter/3 feet long, 20 or more pounds),
which are the largest flatfish that that we have offshore,
hence larger than any flounders around here
(there may be flounder out there larger than the size given above,
but that was simply the approximate size of the largest halibut that
I have taken while spearfishing--unfortunately, it was not just
the largest, but also the only, halibut I have ever taken).
Using an explosive spear-point to take flatfish strikes me as being
in the same category as using a grenade-launcher to hunt deer.
BTW, I just wanted to point out the silliness in the explanation
offered for a (perhaps no less silly) allegedly exploding fish,
so please save any "noble vegetarians versus killer carnivores"
follow-ups for the proposed "talk.environment" news-group.
--
[The foregoing may or may not represent the position, if any, of my employer, ]
[ who is identified solely to allow the reader to account for personal biases.]
[Besides,this message was written and posted way before normal business hours.]
Clay Phipps
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Scott D McGinnis
>
>Using an explosive spear-point to take flatfish strikes me as being
>in the same category as using a grenade-launcher to hunt deer.
>
>Intergraph APD: 2400#4 Geng Road, Palo Alto, CA 94303; 415/852-2327
>UseNet (Intergraph internal): ingr!apd!phipps
>UseNet (external): {apple,pyramid,sri-unix}!garth!phipps EcoNet: cphipps
While I in no way doubt your experience with spear-
fishing, you must remember that I come from an area in the U.S.
where deer hunting w/ a grenade launcher *is* a valid idea if
not a legal method. Your assesment of the situation is excellent
however the possibility still exsists.
Hunters returning from unsucessful forays blast mailboxes
dogs, ect., not to mention the use of shotgun slugs, and in some
cases illegal auto or semi automatic weapons. People *are* weiord
(oops weird), and excessive, and anyway this whole topic is getting
dry. The original idea of a speargun was not offered seriously
anyway, I just felt left out.
S. D. McG.