ascertainment...
Maximus
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>
> judoka_61
That's it ..punks..!
Thomas McDonald
"Maximus" <popots...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:65e9a56e.03081...@posting.google.com...
What's it, punk? Your pyramid evidence is laughable. I actually have
studied the archaeology of Egypt and Mesoamerica at the graduate level--have
you? If not, on what evidence do you make your claims that the pyramids
(which are vastly different between the two locations, BTW) are evidence of
aliens?
But you won't engage in a real discussion of this, because you know your
views are based on inadequate evidence. And you should know, whether you do
or not, that the "debunkers" are not part of some conspiracy. Unless, of
course, you think that all modern science is part of the same conspriacy.
Of course, you're enough of a punk to actually be that divorced from
reality.
Tom McDonald
Earl Colby Pottinger
Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and failing
to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted he
was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors or
admit the results of thier own experiments.
Earl Colby Pottinger
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>
> judoka_61
--
I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos,
SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to
the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.0308...@posting.google.com...
> "Thomas McDonald" <ts...@wwt.net> wrote in message
news:<Bcg%a.1534$zu1....@reggie.win.bright.net>...
> realize who is wrong and who is right.-
>
> judoka_61
Odd view you have there, to think that I'm to be pitied by you for
knowing stuff that you pretend to know, and don't.
Tom McDonald
Earl Colby Pottinger
> Earl Colby Pottinger <ear...@idirect.com> wrote in message
> news:<vjrjmv5...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Let's see, this is the same yahoo who claimed that planet x was effecting
> > Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and
> failing
> > to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted
> he
> > was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
> >
> > So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors
or
> > admit the results of thier own experiments.
> >
> > Earl Colby Pottinger
> >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> > >
> > > judoka_61
>
>
> Dear..Mr Pottinger read my post: Because you wrong !(again)
>
> P.S. use Google and read o stut up -(search: judoka_61)
>
> judoka_61
No sock puppets, just you trying to wiggle out of your own mistakes without
admitting that you were wrong as usual.
Earl Colby Pottinger
Earl Colby Pottinger
http://groups.google.com/groups?threadm=ed34f4d8.0302132306.694f687c%40posting.google.com
One thing ZetaDrone like you are noted for is you lack of ability to use
Google properly.
Earl Colby Pottinger
Alan Speer
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.0308...@posting.google.com...
effecting
> > Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and
failing
> > to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted
he
> > was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
> >
> > So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors
or
> > admit the results of thier own experiments.
> >
> > Earl Colby Pottinger
> >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> > >
> > > judoka_61
>
>
>
> P.S. use Google and read o stut up -(search: judoka_61)
>
> judoka_61
From: Pietro Sommavilla (judo...@yahoo.com)
Subject: compass joke
View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 2003-02-09 07:39:18 PST
Ladies.. Gentlemen...punks..
I did the compass experiment...there is no pole shift..right now..
now what about the ex Russian astronaut..?
Now....do aliens exist..?
judoka_61
Debunk501
earthli...@yahoo.com
> Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and failing
> to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted he
> was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
>
> So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors or
> admit the results of thier own experiments.
>
> Earl Colby Pottinger
>
> > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> >
> > judoka_61
Hi Earl,
In all fairness, on Feb 9, 2003 in the Compass Joke thread, Pietro did
grudgingly admit that he did the compass experiment and it showed that
the poles were not shifting.
> Ladies.. Gentlemen...punks..
> I did the compass experiment...there is no pole shift..right now..
> now what about the ex Russian astronaut..?
> Now....do aliens exist..?
> Judoka_61
But only took him about thirteen days to convince himself that the
experiment didn't really mean anything. On Feb 21 in the earthling
thread he said:
> Why would the compass,tells you about a possible pole shift ?
> This is some kind of experiment you can do..randomly.
> judoka_61
In that time he was able to forget what a compass is and how it works.
His assertion on Feb 9, that the poles weren't shifting, was probably
the first (and maybe the last) time he has ever stated a conclusion
that was actually supported by valid evidence.
That was so contrary to his normal process of forming conclusions that
he couldn't live with it and he had to find some way to dismiss it.
Earthling
Earl Colby Pottinger
> Earl Colby Pottinger <ear...@idirect.com> wrote in message
> news:<vjrjmv5...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Let's see, this is the same yahoo who claimed that planet x was effecting
> > Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and
> failing
> > to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted
> he
> > was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
> >
> > So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors
or
> > admit the results of thier own experiments.
> >
> > Earl Colby Pottinger
> >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> > >
> > > judoka_61
>
> Hi Earl,
>
> In all fairness, on Feb 9, 2003 in the Compass Joke thread, Pietro did
> grudgingly admit that he did the compass experiment and it showed that
> the poles were not shifting.
But at the time he also did not out and out admit that he was wrong, and this
was just after claiming that we were trying to hide that the pole-shift *WAS*
happening.
> > Ladies.. Gentlemen...punks..
> > I did the compass experiment...there is no pole shift..right now..
> > now what about the ex Russian astronaut..?
> > Now....do aliens exist..?
> > Judoka_61
Notice the 'right now' and the attempt to change the subject instead of just
aditting that Nancy's claims were not matching the very eperiment he did
himself?
> But only took him about thirteen days to convince himself that the
> experiment didn't really mean anything. On Feb 21 in the earthling
> thread he said:
>
> > Why would the compass,tells you about a possible pole shift ?
> > This is some kind of experiment you can do..randomly.
> > judoka_61
Standard ZetaDrone smoke-screen.
> In that time he was able to forget what a compass is and how it works.
>
> His assertion on Feb 9, that the poles weren't shifting, was probably
> the first (and maybe the last) time he has ever stated a conclusion
> that was actually supported by valid evidence.
>
> That was so contrary to his normal process of forming conclusions that
> he couldn't live with it and he had to find some way to dismiss it.
>
> Earthling
Agreed, and anyone who will except the ravings of Nancy or anyone else on the
internet over the results of an experiment that they did with thier own hands
is not someone who's statements about anything can be trusted in any way.
Earl Colby Pottinger
Cardinal Chunder
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>
> judoka_61
You seem to be arguing from the point of incredulity:
"I cannot understand how X (e.g. pyramids, lines, crystal skulls etc.)
happened, therefore it must be space aliens"
Sadly for you, such an argument is so painfully weak that it's a wonder
that you can't recognise this for yourself without inflicting it on others.
Just because YOU don't understand does not mean some wacky unsupported
premise is right. Besides which, nothing you cited approaches anything
remotely difficult to understand, either because it is not true, or
because (for example the pictures) it could be accomplished by normal
human beings using everyday materials and tools with no space aliens
required at any stage.
I can well imagine that in two thousand years from now there will be
people making equally stupid assertions when they uncover the channel
tunnel or some other modern structure. After all, we're *much* too
stupid to dig a tunnel under the sea with such precision and such
primitive tools.
earthli...@yahoo.com
> earthli...@yahoo.com :
>
> > Earl Colby Pottinger <ear...@idirect.com> wrote in message
> > news:<vjrjmv5...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > Let's see, this is the same yahoo who claimed that planet x was effecting
> > > Earth's magnetic field. But after doing the compass experiment and
> failing
> > > to find any changes he avoided the issue like the plague, never admitted
> he
> > > was wrong or that Nancy was lying.
> > >
> > > So why should we listen to a person who will not admit thier own errors
> or
> > > admit the results of thier own experiments.
> > >
> > > Earl Colby Pottinger
> > >
> > > > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> > > >
> > > > judoka_61
> >
> > Hi Earl,
> >
> > In all fairness, on Feb 9, 2003 in the Compass Joke thread, Pietro did
> > grudgingly admit that he did the compass experiment and it showed that
> > the poles were not shifting.
>
> But at the time he also did not out and out admit that he was wrong, and this
> was just after claiming that we were trying to hide that the pole-shift *WAS*
> happening.
That's true.
> > > Ladies.. Gentlemen...punks..
> > > I did the compass experiment...there is no pole shift..right now..
> > > now what about the ex Russian astronaut..?
> > > Now....do aliens exist..?
> > > Judoka_61
>
> Notice the 'right now' and the attempt to change the subject instead of just
> aditting that Nancy's claims were not matching the very eperiment he did
> himself?
Yes, it certainly was a half hearted admission.
> > But only took him about thirteen days to convince himself that the
> > experiment didn't really mean anything. On Feb 21 in the earthling
> > thread he said:
> >
> > > Why would the compass,tells you about a possible pole shift ?
> > > This is some kind of experiment you can do..randomly.
> > > judoka_61
>
> Standard ZetaDrone smoke-screen.
>
> > In that time he was able to forget what a compass is and how it works.
> >
> > His assertion on Feb 9, that the poles weren't shifting, was probably
> > the first (and maybe the last) time he has ever stated a conclusion
> > that was actually supported by valid evidence.
> >
> > That was so contrary to his normal process of forming conclusions that
> > he couldn't live with it and he had to find some way to dismiss it.
> >
> > Earthling
>
> Agreed, and anyone who will except the ravings of Nancy or anyone else on the
> internet over the results of an experiment that they did with thier own hands
> is not someone who's statements about anything can be trusted in any way.
I agree. It takes more than a lack of knowledge about science to
believe Nancy's fantacies. It takes a lack of general human common
sense.
Earthling
> Earl Colby Pottinger
Pietro Sommavilla
>...What's it, punk? Your pyramid evidence is laughable. I actually
have
>studied the archaeology of Egypt and Mesoamerica at the graduate
level--have
>you? If not, on what evidence do you make your claims that the
pyramids
>(which are vastly different between the two locations, BTW) are
evidence of
>aliens?
>But you won't engage in a real discussion of this, because you know
your
>views are based on inadequate evidence. And you should know, whether
you do
>or not, that the "debunkers" are not part of some conspiracy.
Unless, of
>course, you think that all modern science is part of the same
conspriacy.
>Of course, you're enough of a punk to actually be that divorced from
>reality.
> Tom McDonald
I'm sorry for you.. 'cause right now all the internet's people can
realize who is wrong and who is right.-
> Odd view you have there, to think that I'm to be pitied by you for
> knowing stuff that you pretend to know, and don't.
I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of
days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
pyramid (Chichen-itza)
when they did not have technology ?
P.S.
Hey !..you know, I caught your cousin in Bozen (South Tirol)we had a
conversation about aliens and sci astro...nice guy.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
> That was so contrary to his normal process of forming conclusions that
> he couldn't live with it and he had to find some way to dismiss it.
>
> Earthling
Hi,nice to meet you again.
As you can see..someone keep to mis-stated things I've said.
Just to make clear once and for all:
#I'm not a "zetadrone" I'm a digger..and I ask questions for me and
for those who might be seriously trying to understand whether the
presence of aliens
are truth or lie.-
#I've never attempted to fan the flames of fear to nobody.-
Now,about my "normal process of forming conclusions"..
I asked some Q. in sci,astro and in other groups,some of Q. was
about;the earth's core,and the weather.
ALL of you answer: the weather is <NORMAL> and the earth'core is
<NORMAL>..
Martin Rees and Michael Benton said (in short)that the earth has never
been so hot in 500 million of years, and its temperature is keeping to
increase fast every year..and these are serious allarms..
#Are Martin Rees and Michael Benton zetadrones too ?
National Academy of Science of United States: (in short) the rising
earth's temperature in the last 20 years,is not due just for natural
events..
its impossible to support that..
In these days,in Europe a lot of people died for the increase of the
temperature,and also most of the glaciers of the alps are melting..and
these are facts, and that's not bearing false witness...(I did see
that with my eyes)
..conclusions..most of you debunkers play games or are just ignorant
people.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Ladies and Gentlemen...
...and the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>>Agreed, and anyone who will except the ravings of Nancy or anyone
else on the
>>internet over the results of an experiment that they did with thier
own hands
>>is not someone who's statements about anything can be trusted in any
way.
> I agree. It takes more than a lack of knowledge about science to
> believe Nancy's fantacies. It takes a lack of general human common
> sense.
>
> Earthling
> > Earl Colby Pottinger
Listen.. forget about Nancy-Zetas..
I did not trust her ..as a matter of fact I wrote(subject:prove
it!2003-03-04)
see.. <d99b6a01.0303...@posting.google.com>
Maybe, this pole shift is not a "magnetic pole shift" which happens
often, but rather a continental shift... this could mean crustal
displacement....ect..ect..
================================================================================
Martin Rees an Astrophysicist said that the earth went trough five
cycle of exstintion allready..so why I should not think about some
previous Pole Shift in our dear planet earth ?
judoka_61 & Siberian Mammoth
Cardinal Chunder
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen...
> ...and the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
> such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
>
> judoka_61
Because these 'primitive' Indians were not a bunch of knuckle dragging
morons? They were a sophisticated people with a written language, a
counting system, plus the artisans, priests, mathematicians,
administrators and labour neccessary to construct a stone building.
And did they start with a massive pyramid, or build up to it through
progressive steps? The archeological record makes clear it was the
latter, something you'd learn if you bothered to spend even 30 minutes
researching something before opening your yap.
As I'm feeling generous, I'll provide you with a few links to get you
going, though I doubt you have the brains to read or accept what they say.
http://www.thehallofmaat.com/
http://www.intersurf.com/~chalcedony/wildside.shtml
http://www.ontalink.com/archaeology/maya/
http://www.ontalink.com/archaeology/aztecs/index.html
After all, why look at that dry research about boring stuff people find
in the ground or from actually studying the ruins when you can let your
imagination fill in the massive gaps with space aliens?
Pietro Sommavilla
> Cardinal Chunder <c...@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote in message news:<7uhqhb...@192.168.1.1>...
> > Pietro Sommavilla wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
> > >
> > > judoka_61
> >
> > You seem to be arguing from the point of incredulity:
> >
> > "I cannot understand how X (e.g. pyramids, lines, crystal skulls etc.)
> > happened, therefore it must be space aliens"
> >
> > Sadly for you, such an argument is so painfully weak that it's a wonder
> > that you can't recognise this for yourself without inflicting it on others.
> >
> > Just because YOU don't understand does not mean some wacky unsupported
> > premise is right. Besides which, nothing you cited approaches anything
> > remotely difficult to understand, either because it is not true, or
> > because (for example the pictures) it could be accomplished by normal
> > human beings using everyday materials and tools with no space aliens
> > required at any stage.
> >
> > I can well imagine that in two thousand years from now there will be
> > people making equally stupid assertions when they uncover the channel
> > tunnel or some other modern structure. After all, we're *much* too
> > stupid to dig a tunnel under the sea with such precision and such
> > primitive tools.
Ladies and Gentlemen...
...the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
Think about it "Cardinal"..they build city like;Machu Pichu,Perfect
costrution like the pyramid of Kukulkan,and huge signs that we can
notice only from the sky...that's (as you realize) need a lot of
science & technology...
do you agree ?
ok..can you explain then why C. Colombo when discover the new
continent found people half naked,with no tecnology ? they even did
not use wheels...
read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several
Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all !
The Spanish kill almost all of them..because they was..primitive
people..
The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
else use astronomy ?
would you agree.that someone else made those huge signal that we can
see only from the sky ?..would you agree that someone.. departed from
that continent
leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
No you will not...maybe you will say..those people got a virus that
make them forget about their science and about their
technology...com'on..just say this..
Ladies & Gentlemen..I rest my case..its up to you now..
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>Agreed, and anyone who will except the ravings of Nancy or anyone else on the
>internet over the results of an experiment that they did with thier
>own hands
>is not someone who's statements about anything can be trusted in any way.
..naah !.. the compass experiment wasn't realy important for me...
d99b6a01.0303...@posting.google.com
judoka_61 & Siberian Mammoth
Earl Colby Pottinger
Please notice this is just an excuse by Pietro to direct attention away from
the fact that he has never admitted that Nancy lied to him, or that he has
never admitted that Planet X never existed.
Pietro Sommavilla
Zetas because:1)The lied more than one time.
2)I've read different sorces about them and why they
lie.
Ok ?.. meanwhile I've read also about some kind of people that are
trying to decive too ..
you're not better than the Zetas...<period>
so again.. why the Mayan abandoned their great city for no know reason
?
Who build those perfect costrutions ? is maybe because the Mayan did
not have the tecnology to make a big city function ?
Earl Colby Pottinger
Still you avoid the issues.
You still have not said Nancy lied.
You still have not admitted you were wrong about the pole-shift.
You still have not said that there is no Planet X.
Why are you so scared of the truth?
Earl Colby Pottinger
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
>
>I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of
>days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
>how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
>pyramid (Chichen-itza)
>when they did not have technology ?
OK, oh brainless one - can you explain how the people of medieval
Europe managed to build all those incredible cathedrals?
Currently there are no records of them having the technology to do it,
and only a few attempts in experimental archeology have managed to
reconstruct a few _possible_ tools they might have used.
it would be a hard job doing it even with today's technology, and the
cost would be astronomical :)
Perhaps the great European cathedrals were built by space aliens too?
DP
--
Nattering Nabob #1 of the MOHSG
(alpha version of .sig)
Pietro Sommavilla
>Still you avoid the issues
Let's see which one...
>you still have not said Nancy lied
I'm gonna say: the Zetas use Nancy for spread false informations..to
fan the flames of fear (maybe that's what they are up to)
>you still have not admitted you were wrong about the pole shift
Sorry..I cannot say: no pole shift. I do belive that several pole
shift did happen in the story of the planet earth.-
>you still have not said that there is no Px
There is not any Px (maybe is something else)
Martin Rees and Michael Benton said (in short)that the earth has never
been so hot in 500 million of years, and its temperature is keeping to
increase fast every year..and these are serious allarms..
why are you so scared of the truth ?
..what..?
The National Academy of Science of United States: (in short) the
rising
earth's temperature in the last 20 years,is not due just for natural
events..its impossible to support that..
In these days,in Europe a lot of people died for the increase of the
temperature,and also most of the glaciers of the alps are melting..and
these are facts, and that's not bearing false witness...(I did see
that with my eyes)
judoka_61
Thomas McDonald
<snip>
> I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of
> days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
> how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
> pyramid (Chichen-itza)
> when they did not have technology ?
Pietro,
1. Chichen-itza is in the Yucatan Penninsula of Mexico. It is not
anywhere near South America.
2. The Maya were inheritors of a tradition of monumental building in
stone that was about 2,000 years old when the pyramid you mention was built.
They had plenty of technology; that technology was developed by
Mesoamericans themselves over twenty centuries; and they needed no help from
anyone, terrestrial or otherwise, to do so.
3. You assert (without providing any evidence whatsoever--which is your
job, you know, providing evidence, if you do make assertions) that the
'native south-americans...did not have technology'. That is a stupid
assertion, since humans have had technology in one form or another for over
two million years. However, I suspect that you mean that the Maya who built
Chichen-itza didn't have technology _adequate to the purpose of building
such a complex and subtle monument_. In either case, you assume facts not
in evidence, and ignore facts that _are_ in evidence.
4. If you have a shred of integrity, you'll either support your
assertion; admit that you haven't thought it through well enough; or
actually do the research on the Maya (and predecessor cultures in
Mesoamerica) that would cure your ignorance. I hope you do at least one of
those things. But I've been disappointed in you before, so I won't bet the
farm on it.
>
> P.S.
> Hey !..you know, I caught your cousin in Bozen (South Tirol)we had a
> conversation about aliens and sci astro...nice guy.
I haven't any cousins in the South Tyrol. I haven't been to any part of
the Tyrol in nearly 40 years.
Tom McDonald
>
> judoka_61
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
Pietro,
The Native Americans you're talking about are the Late Classic Maya, who
were the inheritors of a regional cultural tradition of large and
increasingly complex stone buildings that was 2,000 years old by the time
they built the pyramid you mention. They were not primative in any way; in
fact, their material and intellectual culture would have equalled or
surpassed that of Europe at the same time (ca. 1000 AD).
You may be ignorant of American archaeology; in another post you seemed
to think Chichen Itza was located in South America, when it is in fact
located in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico--North America for most,
Mesoamerica for the more technically inclined. If you are ignorant, then
your ignorance can be cured by reading real archaeology works. I suggest _A
Forest of Kings: The Untold Story of the Maya_, 1990, by Linda Shele and
David Freidel, New York, Quill (an affiliate of William Morrow and Company,
Inc.), ISBN # 0-688-11204-8.
If you are not willing to cure your ignorance, and wish willfully to
remain ignorant, then you're a punk, and not at all interested in learning
things. You constantly tell us that you are a seeker--one looking for
answers. Seek, then, and don't continue to make these elementary errors.
Tom McDonald
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
Pietro,
The previous extinctions were not brought on by a "pole shift"; they
have been rigorously studied and, while there are always loose ends to tie
up, none of them lead to a pole shift.
Tom McDonald
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
Pietro,
Yes.
>
> ok..can you explain then why C. Colombo when discover the new
> continent found people half naked,with no tecnology ?
Columbus never set foot in Mesoamerica; he never saw the high culture of
the Aztecs and other city-states of Mexico. But Cortez did--and he was both
impressed and fearful. The Spanish only conquered the Aztecs by making
alliances with others of the advanced city-states in Mexico; and even then,
it took years to complete the conquest of the Aztecs.
The Maya, who you seem to think too thick to build sophisticated
pyramids, held off the Conquistadors for a century; and even then,
maintained most of their culture.
Jeez, Pietro, read some of the relevant history. And, just for shits
and giggles, try studying some American geography. You put Chichen Itza in
South America, for God's sake; and you imagine that the Native Americans
Columbus saw were typical of _all_ Native Americans of the period.
Ignorance. But ignorance is curable by study; can you do it? Will you do
it, Seeker?
they even did
> not use wheels...
Wheels do not a civilization make. They used wheels on toys; but,
without large draft animals like horses or oxen, wheels are of very limited
utility. They used rivers and lakes extensively for travel; and much of the
terrain in the areas of high culture were inimicable to wheeled transport.
> read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several
> Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all !
Ignorance. Read Bernal Diaz's, _The Conquest of New Spain_. Read
something of the archaeology of Mesoamerica in real archaeology books. Take
a look at the historical sequence of buildings, raised fields (chinampas),
trade routes, domestication and cultivation of many crops, religious and
philosophical development (again, not the New Age crap you seem to be stuck
in, but real works of scholarship and science), art, mathematics, astronomy,
calendrics, hydrolic engineering, etc.
The conquistadors had very good reasons to pretend that their victims
were inferior; and, since they won, they got to tell the story their way.
The fact is that when Cortez first saw Tenochtitlan, it was larger, cleaner,
more orderly, and more prosperous than any European city of the time. This
business of half-naked primatives is foolish, wrong-headed, and you must be
either ignorant or a racist if you keep believing that after you've been
directed where to go to correct your ignorance.
>
> The Spanish kill almost all of them..because they was..primitive
> people..
>
No, the Spaniards' Indian allies did most of the direct killing of the
Aztecs. Disease did by far the most killing, as the Spanish brought
European diseases that the Americans weren't used to. Hell, measles (mostly
a nusance to Europeans) killed Americans by droves. Smallpox wiped out
whole populations. Technology had nothing to do with that. "Primative"
doesn't enter into it at all.
> The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
> city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
> about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
> they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
> else use astronomy ?
Who are you talking about? If you mean the Nazca, they didn't live in
the middle of a jungle and they weren't naked.
> would you agree.that someone else made those huge signal that we can
> see only from the sky ?
No. The Nazca made them; and nearly all of them are visible while
standing right in the middle of them; those that are larger could be seen
from a low hill. The whole business of "only seen from the sky" is an
artifact of their modern "discovery" by someone flying over them in an
airplane, and romanticising and mystifying their discovery by pretending
that the poor ignorant native couldn't possibly have made them. But they
did.
..would you agree that someone.. departed from
> that continent
> leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
> from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally incorrect,
and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that has been
done on the topics. You have read the woo-woo press; they are in it for the
money, or to grind an axe. Not to learn the truth.
>
> No you will not...maybe you will say..those people got a virus that
> make them forget about their science and about their
> technology...com'on..just say this..
Why? Humans did all the great things you think they couldn't have done;
modern science has shown that to be true; and only your woo-woo writers like
Von Daniken and Hancock spin the yarn you've wrapped yourself in.
For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
>
> Ladies & Gentlemen..I rest my case..its up to you now..
You have made no case. You've spewed lots of New Age crap, and not
supported any of it (except a pitiful tangential reference to Pizzaro). You
have to provide evidence to make your case, evidence that others can read
and evaluate.
If you rest your case now, in any court in the world you'd lose before
the jury had a chance to deliberate--your case would be thrown out by the
judge for being totally inadequate.
Tom McDonald
>
> judoka_61
Thomas McDonald
Earl,
Yup. Ol' Pietro is of the 'baffle 'em with bullshit' school. Problem
is that there are just too damn many bullshit detectors in the ng.
Tom McDonald
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
> Zetas because:1)The lied more than one time.
> 2)I've read different sorces about them and why they
> lie.
>
> Ok ?.. meanwhile I've read also about some kind of people that are
> trying to decive too ..
> you're not better than the Zetas...<period>
>
> so again.. why the Mayan abandoned their great city for no know reason
> ?
> Who build those perfect costrutions ? is maybe because the Mayan did
> not have the tecnology to make a big city function ?
Pietro,
Some Maya (NOT Mayan) cities were abandoned because of warfare. The
rest were abandoned as a result of a long drought that made it impossible to
feed a large, concentrated urban population. You're reading outdated
information if you think the Maya collapse is a mystery.
The Maya built the 'perfect constructions'; although some of them were
built using Toltecs during a certain period.
They had the technology and the governing ability to make big cities
function. They didn't have the technology to make it rain. Do you? If
not, are you a half-naked primative?
Tom McDonald
>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets
>
> judoka_61
DrPostman
Sommavilla) wrote:
>I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of
>days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
>how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
>pyramid (Chichen-itza)
>when they did not have technology ?
Yes they did. What proof do you have that they didn't? Why do you
idiots always sell the ancients short? They were just as smart as
we are today, and perhaps even more inventive. What is the basis
of this claim of yours? How much do you know about the Toltecs
Pietro? I would be fascinated to hear what you have to say about
them.
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: eckles(at)midsouth.rr.com
"The services provided by Sylvia Browne Corporation are highly
speculative in nature and we do not guarantee that the results
of our work will be satisfactory to a client."
-Sylvia's Refund Policy
DrPostman
Sommavilla) wrote:
>Ladies and Gentlemen...
>...and the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
>such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
Go read this page before you embarrass yourself worse than you already
have:
http://www.courses.psu.edu/anth/anth008_cmg149/mayan.html
It is written simply enough for even you to understand.
We have their quarries with the tools they used, you idiot.
DrPostman
Sommavilla) wrote:
>Ladies and Gentlemen...
>...the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
>such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
What makes them "perfect"? There are plenty of flaws, but you
have never been there so you simply assume. You have made a
fool of yourself again.
>Think about it "Cardinal"..they build city like;Machu Pichu,Perfect
>costrution like the pyramid of Kukulkan,and huge signs that we can
>notice only from the sky...that's (as you realize) need a lot of
>science & technology...
>do you agree ?
Now you are mixing the Mayan with the Nazca. We know all about both
and how what they did was made. The hills around Nazca allow plenty
of ability to see the patterns they wrote to mark their underground
irrigation channels. What that Pietro? You didn't know about those
channels? I am not surprised. You know so little and assume so much.
Continue to make a fool of yourself, I find it entertaining.
>ok..can you explain then why C. Colombo when discover the new
>continent found people half naked,with no tecnology ? they even did
>not use wheels...
>read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several
>Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all !
They had plenty of technology, you dolt.
>The Spanish kill almost all of them..because they was..primitive
>people..
>
>The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
>city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
>about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
>they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
>else use astronomy ?
When did they become naked? Are you really this fucked up about
history?
>would you agree.that someone else made those huge signal that we can
>see only from the sky ?..would you agree that someone.. departed from
>that continent
>leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
>from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
You don't know shit about Nazca.
>No you will not...maybe you will say..those people got a virus that
>make them forget about their science and about their
>technology...com'on..just say this..
>
>Ladies & Gentlemen..I rest my case..its up to you now..
>
>judoka_61
You rested upon a pile of crap. Enjoying the stench?
Liberlegis
>
> days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
> how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
> pyramid (Chichen-itza)
> when they did not have technology ?
>
>
Hi Pietro,
I love the Dolomites. Some of the most spectacular scenery on Earth. I
envy you! What did you do whilst there?
DrPostman
wrote:
> They had the technology and the governing ability to make big cities
>function. They didn't have the technology to make it rain. Do you? If
>not, are you a half-naked primative?
He is pretty primitive, you have to admit.
Earl Colby Pottinger
> Earl Colby Pottinger wrote:
>
> >Still you avoid the issues
>
> Let's see which one...
>
>
> >you still have not said Nancy lied
>
> I'm gonna say: the Zetas use Nancy for spread false informations..to
> fan the flames of fear (maybe that's what they are up to)
Then you are still avaoiding the issue ZetaDrone.
> >you still have not admitted you were wrong about the pole shift
>
> Sorry..I cannot say: no pole shift. I do belive that several pole
> shift did happen in the story of the planet earth.-
Still a ZetaDrone
> >you still have not said that there is no Px
>
> There is not any Px (maybe is something else)
Opps, that is not a clear no, still a ZetaDrone.
> Martin Rees and Michael Benton said (in short)that the earth has never
> been so hot in 500 million of years, and its temperature is keeping to
> increase fast every year..and these are serious allarms..
>
> why are you so scared of the truth ?
>
> ...what..?
> The National Academy of Science of United States: (in short) the
> rising
> earth's temperature in the last 20 years,is not due just for natural
> events..its impossible to support that..
>
> In these days,in Europe a lot of people died for the increase of the
> temperature,and also most of the glaciers of the alps are melting..and
> these are facts, and that's not bearing false witness...(I did see
> that with my eyes)
>
> judoka_61
Again trying to change the subject I see, why is it that all ZetaDrones have
to lie when they come here. They just can't admit to making a mistake?
Earl Colby Pottinger
Pietro Sommavilla
Mc Donald it is plain and simple: The Spanish-Conquistadores found the
native americans in a primitive state..they were not eating fruit from
a flat gold or flat alabaster dish,and they did not live in those
monumental-city anymore ..in short the Conquistadores found a gap
between those people and the huge and perfect constructions of
central-south america..they had a lot of gold of course but also they
did not gave too much consideration for it.
Everything is written; the Conquistadores and the missionary wrote
these facts.
Hey !..you know, I caught your cousin in Bozen (South Tirol)we had a
> > conversation about aliens and sci astro...nice guy.
>
> I haven't any cousins in the South Tyrol. I haven't been to any part of
> the Tyrol in nearly 40 years.
Hey that was a joke..
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sommavilla_mypage3
> If you are not willing to cure your ignorance, and wish willfully to
> remain ignorant, then you're a punk, and not at all interested in learning
> things. You constantly tell us that you are a seeker--one looking for
> answers. Seek, then, and don't continue to make these elementary errors.
>
> Tom McDonald
I apologise;I always refer Mexico in south america while Mexico is in
central america.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sommavilla_mypage3
Ladies and Gentlemen...
...the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a
such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..?
> >Think about it "Cardinal"..they build city like;Machu Pichu,Perfect
> > costrution like the pyramid of Kukulkan,and huge signs that we can
> > notice only from the sky...that's (as you realize) need a lot of
> > science & technology...
> > do you agree ?
>
> Pietro,
>
> Yes.
>
> >
> > ok..can you explain then why C. Colombo when discover the new
> > continent found people half naked,with no tecnology ?
>
> Columbus never set foot in Mesoamerica; he never saw the high culture of
> the Aztecs and other city-states of Mexico. But Cortez did--and he was both
> impressed and fearful. The Spanish only conquered the Aztecs by making
> alliances with others of the advanced city-states in Mexico; and even then,
> it took years to complete the conquest of the Aztecs.
>
> The Maya, who you seem to think too thick to build sophisticated
> pyramids, held off the Conquistadors for a century; and even then,
> maintained most of their culture.
oh yes,the Maya held off the Spanish for a century..they was hiding in
the jungle or on the top of the mountains and when they did not have
place to hide they got killed.
> Jeez, Pietro, read some of the relevant history. And, just for shits
> and giggles, try studying some American geography. You put Chichen Itza in
> South America, for God's sake; and you imagine that the Native Americans
> Columbus saw were typical of _all_ Native Americans of the period.
> Ignorance. But ignorance is curable by study; can you do it? Will you do
> it, Seeker?
Ok my mistake..Chichen Itza is in central america.-
> they even did
> > not use wheels...
>
> Wheels do not a civilization make. They used wheels on toys; but,
> without large draft animals like horses or oxen, wheels are of very limited
> utility. They used rivers and lakes extensively for travel; and much of the
> terrain in the areas of high culture were inimicable to wheeled transport.
I'm sorry,I disagree.
> > read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several
> > Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all !
>
> Ignorance. Read Bernal Diaz's, _The Conquest of New Spain_. Read
> something of the archaeology of Mesoamerica in real archaeology books. Take
> a look at the historical sequence of buildings, raised fields (chinampas),
> trade routes, domestication and cultivation of many crops, religious and
> philosophical development (again, not the New Age crap you seem to be stuck
> in, but real works of scholarship and science), art, mathematics, astronomy,
> calendrics, hydrolic engineering, etc.
Right ! archaeology books !
> The conquistadors had very good reasons to pretend that their victims
> were inferior; and, since they won, they got to tell the story their way.
> The fact is that when Cortez first saw Tenochtitlan, it was larger, cleaner,
> more orderly, and more prosperous than any European city of the time. This
> business of half-naked primatives is foolish, wrong-headed, and you must be
> either ignorant or a racist if you keep believing that after you've been
> directed where to go to correct your ignorance.
Nope, I'm not a racist and I disagree with you: The conquistadors did
not find the native americans in their schools or while they was
taking a walk in their trade route...simple because "they" renounce to
live in their city..year before the Spanish reach Central-South
America.
> > The Spanish kill almost all of them..because they was..primitive
> > people..
> >
>
> No, the Spaniards' Indian allies did most of the direct killing of the
> Aztecs. Disease did by far the most killing, as the Spanish brought
> European diseases that the Americans weren't used to. Hell, measles (mostly
> a nusance to Europeans) killed Americans by droves. Smallpox wiped out
> whole populations. Technology had nothing to do with that. "Primative"
> doesn't enter into it at all.
That's the truth "half" of the native americans died of diseases...
(about the other half)..I'd like to see you while you try to defend
your farm with a stick while I have a gun..of course you can held off
me for a while..if you run or hide.
> > The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
> > city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
> > about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
> > they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
> > else use astronomy ?
>
> Who are you talking about? If you mean the Nazca, they didn't live in
> the middle of a jungle and they weren't naked.
I aggravated;they was wearing a couple of feathers..it is ok?
> > would you agree.that someone else made those huge signal that we can
> > see only from the sky ?
>
> No. The Nazca made them; and nearly all of them are visible while
> standing right in the middle of them; those that are larger could be seen
> from a low hill. The whole business of "only seen from the sky" is an
> artifact of their modern "discovery" by someone flying over them in an
> airplane, and romanticising and mystifying their discovery by pretending
> that the poor ignorant native couldn't possibly have made them. But they
> did.
I disagree.
> ..would you agree that someone.. departed from
> > that continent
> > leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
> > from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
>
> Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally incorrect,
> and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that has been
> done on the topics. You have read the woo-woo press; they are in it for the
> money, or to grind an axe. Not to learn the truth.
Nope no money. about archaeology explain;the crystal skull. about the
anthropology explain; why the chinese people is different from the
indians e why the norvegian people is different from the african
people.
> > No you will not...maybe you will say..those people got a virus that
> > make them forget about their science and about their
> > technology...com'on..just say this..
>
> Why? Humans did all the great things you think they couldn't have done;
> modern science has shown that to be true; and only your woo-woo writers like
> Von Daniken and Hancock spin the yarn you've wrapped yourself in.
>
> For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
different kind of aliens ?
> > Ladies & Gentlemen..I rest my case..its up to you now..
>
> You have made no case. You've spewed lots of New Age crap, and not
> supported any of it (except a pitiful tangential reference to Pizzaro). You
> have to provide evidence to make your case, evidence that others can read
> and evaluate.
Hey ! I did my best..
> If you rest your case now, in any court in the world you'd lose before
> the jury had a chance to deliberate--your case would be thrown out by the
> judge for being totally inadequate.
>
> Tom McDonald
Ok I will not rest my case...
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
> "Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
> > so again.. why the Mayan abandoned their great city for no know reason
> > ?
> > Who build those perfect costrutions ? is maybe because the Mayan did
> > not have the tecnology to make a big city function ?
>
> Pietro,
>
> Some Maya (NOT Mayan) cities were abandoned because of warfare. The
> rest were abandoned as a result of a long drought that made it impossible to
> feed a large, concentrated urban population. You're reading outdated
> information if you think the Maya collapse is a mystery.
>
> The Maya built the 'perfect constructions'; although some of them were
> built using Toltecs during a certain period.
>
> They had the technology and the governing ability to make big cities
> function. They didn't have the technology to make it rain. Do you? If
> not, are you a half-naked primative?
>
> Tom McDonald
...Gotcha !
If they had the ability to make big cities function,and after they had
to abandoned them, 'cause a war or a long drought..why they did not
build those huge cities with those paved roads..again ?
http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sommavilla_mypage3
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Hi,in Milan was too hot, so I took a vacantion.
I sleept 3 days on the top of Passo Sella,nice fresh air max 9°C nice sky
I never get enough to watch those stars beatiful..by the way
The glaciers are melting, and that is not B.S.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Listen..do you know what zetadrones means ?
In the fantastic world of the aliens stories the zetadrones is:
1)a Nordic or a human under control of the zetas.
2) a clone of an alien or human with I.Q. like a child.
3) the zetas use drones for manual work.
Meanwhile there are different kind of zetas,and for what I know I
realy don't trust them since they could be used as puppets from other
aliens species more cruel. (of course those humans that are trying to
deal with them are the worst)
..got it enough ..?
judoka_61
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
>
>Mc Donald it is plain and simple: The Spanish-Conquistadores found the
>native americans in a primitive state..they were not eating fruit from
>a flat gold or flat alabaster dish,and they did not live in those
>monumental-city anymore ..in short the Conquistadores found a gap
>between those people and the huge and perfect constructions of
>central-south america..they had a lot of gold of course but also they
>did not gave too much consideration for it.
>
>Everything is written; the Conquistadores and the missionary wrote
>these facts.
Have you actually read _any_ of the history of the Spanish (and
others) invasion of south America? You seem to be basing all your
claims on some sort of pulp fiction or sensationalist TV drama ideas
of how the native population lived at that time.
Maybe you should try to do just a little bit of real research before
posting this nonsense. The information is easily available - although
I expect you'll follow your usual route of not letting the facts stand
in the way of your fantasies.
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
>"Thomas McDonald" <ts...@wwt.net> wrote in message news:<A9Y0b.1811$zu1....@reggie.win.bright.net>...
>>
>> Columbus never set foot in Mesoamerica; he never saw the high culture of
>> the Aztecs and other city-states of Mexico. But Cortez did--and he was both
>> impressed and fearful. The Spanish only conquered the Aztecs by making
>> alliances with others of the advanced city-states in Mexico; and even then,
>> it took years to complete the conquest of the Aztecs.
>>
>> The Maya, who you seem to think too thick to build sophisticated
>> pyramids, held off the Conquistadors for a century; and even then,
>> maintained most of their culture.
>
>oh yes,the Maya held off the Spanish for a century..they was hiding in
>the jungle or on the top of the mountains and when they did not have
>place to hide they got killed.
What evidence do you have to support that claim? You obviously
haven't taken the trouble to find out _anything_ about the subject
you're trying to debate.
>> Jeez, Pietro, read some of the relevant history. And, just for shits
>> and giggles, try studying some American geography. You put Chichen Itza in
>> South America, for God's sake; and you imagine that the Native Americans
>> Columbus saw were typical of _all_ Native Americans of the period.
>> Ignorance. But ignorance is curable by study; can you do it? Will you do
>> it, Seeker?
>
>Ok my mistake..Chichen Itza is in central america.-
>
>> they even did
>> > not use wheels...
>>
>> Wheels do not a civilization make. They used wheels on toys; but,
>> without large draft animals like horses or oxen, wheels are of very limited
>> utility. They used rivers and lakes extensively for travel; and much of the
>> terrain in the areas of high culture were inimicable to wheeled transport.
>
>I'm sorry,I disagree.
You disagree? Is that the sum total of your debating abilities "I
disagree"? How about putting forward some facts to support your
position?
How can you disagree when you obviously don't know anything about how
these people lived?
>> > read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several
>> > Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all !
>>
>> Ignorance. Read Bernal Diaz's, _The Conquest of New Spain_. Read
>> something of the archaeology of Mesoamerica in real archaeology books. Take
>> a look at the historical sequence of buildings, raised fields (chinampas),
>> trade routes, domestication and cultivation of many crops, religious and
>> philosophical development (again, not the New Age crap you seem to be stuck
>> in, but real works of scholarship and science), art, mathematics, astronomy,
>> calendrics, hydrolic engineering, etc.
>
>Right ! archaeology books !
That's about as bad as "I disagree". Do you have some problem with
archeology, or with books? You could actually try reading one once in
a while - you might learn something from it....
You're coming across as one of the "anti-science" brigade, like many
of the Zeta believers. You have the attitude that learning is a bad
thing, that science is always wrong, and that your "new age
philosophies" will supply the answers - which they won't.
>> The conquistadors had very good reasons to pretend that their victims
>> were inferior; and, since they won, they got to tell the story their way.
>> The fact is that when Cortez first saw Tenochtitlan, it was larger, cleaner,
>> more orderly, and more prosperous than any European city of the time. This
>> business of half-naked primatives is foolish, wrong-headed, and you must be
>> either ignorant or a racist if you keep believing that after you've been
>> directed where to go to correct your ignorance.
>
>Nope, I'm not a racist and I disagree with you: The conquistadors did
>not find the native americans in their schools or while they was
>taking a walk in their trade route...simple because "they" renounce to
>live in their city..year before the Spanish reach Central-South
>America.
Again you're making assertions without any supporting facts.
>> No, the Spaniards' Indian allies did most of the direct killing of the
>> Aztecs. Disease did by far the most killing, as the Spanish brought
>> European diseases that the Americans weren't used to. Hell, measles (mostly
>> a nusance to Europeans) killed Americans by droves. Smallpox wiped out
>> whole populations. Technology had nothing to do with that. "Primative"
>> doesn't enter into it at all.
>
>That's the truth "half" of the native americans died of diseases...
>(about the other half)..I'd like to see you while you try to defend
>your farm with a stick while I have a gun..of course you can held off
>me for a while..if you run or hide.
Of course they were "outgunned" by the Spanish, but if you try
_reading_ what Tom wrote above, you'll see that most of the killing
wasn't done by the Spanish, but by native Indians, recruited by them.
>> > The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
>> > city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
>> > about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
>> > they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
>> > else use astronomy ?
>>
>> Who are you talking about? If you mean the Nazca, they didn't live in
>> the middle of a jungle and they weren't naked.
>
>I aggravated;they was wearing a couple of feathers..it is ok?
That, if I may say so, is incredibly, condescendingly racist, about a
people you are absolutely ignorant about.
I could as well cast all Italians as greasy layabouts who chase after
women all the time. And that's without bringing up all the old war
jokes about Italian tanks having 1 forward and 5 reverse gears.
[Of course that was said purely for effect, and I find the Italians to
be a very pleasant and friendly people - but it shows how a few words
can slander an entire race.]
>> No. The Nazca made them; and nearly all of them are visible while
>> standing right in the middle of them; those that are larger could be seen
>> from a low hill. The whole business of "only seen from the sky" is an
>> artifact of their modern "discovery" by someone flying over them in an
>> airplane, and romanticising and mystifying their discovery by pretending
>> that the poor ignorant native couldn't possibly have made them. But they
>> did.
>
>I disagree.
You disagree again? So, don't you believe there are hills overlooking
the lines? Have you looked at any of the work done to understand how
the figures were created, and what part they played in their religion?
>> ..would you agree that someone.. departed from
>> > that continent
>> > leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
>> > from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
>>
>> Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally incorrect,
>> and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that has been
>> done on the topics. You have read the woo-woo press; they are in it for the
>> money, or to grind an axe. Not to learn the truth.
>
>Nope no money. about archaeology explain;the crystal skull. about the
>anthropology explain; why the chinese people is different from the
>indians e why the norvegian people is different from the african
>people.
I don't know where to start answering that! Try learning about the
spread of humanity from Africa, about the different migrations which
are believed to have occurred, and about evolution.
You show your ignorance of even basic scientific knowledge in every
post you make - and it doesn't help your position....
>> Why? Humans did all the great things you think they couldn't have done;
>> modern science has shown that to be true; and only your woo-woo writers like
>> Von Daniken and Hancock spin the yarn you've wrapped yourself in.
>>
>> For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
>
>I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
>extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
>or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
>different kind of aliens ?
Or maybe they were writing a mythology about gods and goddesses, about
elemental forces, and about good and evil.
Sometimes I think it's pointless trying to argue with idiots like you
who are willing to accept every "new age" woo-woo idea that comes
along, but won't believe a single scientific fact when it's patiently
explained to them.
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
> "Thomas McDonald" <ts...@wwt.net> wrote in message
news:<bgY0b.1813$zu1....@reggie.win.bright.net>...
<snip>
> > They had the technology and the governing ability to make big cities
> > function. They didn't have the technology to make it rain. Do you? If
> > not, are you a half-naked primative?
> >
> > Tom McDonald
>
>
>
> ...Gotcha !
>
> If they had the ability to make big cities function,and after they had
> to abandoned them, 'cause a war or a long drought..why they did not
> build those huge cities with those paved roads..again ?
Pietro,
Good question; but not a gotcha.
Think of an analogy with Europe after the collapse of the western Roman
Empire. Cities contracted, civil authority broke down, monumental and
public works construction pretty much stopped for centuries. The same kind
of thing occurred in other places in the Old World at various times.
Highly complex cultures, like the Late Classic Maya and the late classic
Romans, are critically dependant on the proper functioning and balance of
many, many elements. A prolonged disturbance of that functioning and
balance can be so disruptive that the previous status quo is never again
attained.
In the case of Europe after the fifth century AD, it never again
returned to the way it had functioned under the Romans. In the case of the
post-collapse Maya, while there was some recovery, there were only two or
three hundred years between the collapse and the coming of the Spanish. To
continue the European analogy, between the fifth and eighth century, the
continent remained relatively stagnant. If someone had seen Europe during
the late western Roman Empire, and then saw it in the 700's AD, that person
would likely think that the Europeans had regressed to barbarism and would
likely never return to civilization.
You seem to think that the Native Americans were inferior in some way to
other cultures; if so, then you are wrong.
You also seem to think that what you believe about history is true, and
what I know from concerted study is wrong. I can't convince you if you
refuse to look at the evidence; but I don't think you make your case very
well if all you can do is pick the bits you like (and in fact misunderstand
much of even that little bit) from history, and reject what you don't like.
Truth seekers seek the whole truth. You've shown that you hold tightly
to your views, even when shown evidence that your views are inadequate. I
hope you broaden your horizons; but your history here doesn't give me much
hope that you will.
Tom McDonald
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sommavilla_mypage3
>
> judoka_61
Wally Anglesea™
Sommavilla) wrote:
<SNIP>
>
>Listen..do you know what zetadrones means ?
>
>In the fantastic world of the aliens stories the zetadrones is:
>
>1)a Nordic or a human under control of the zetas.
>2) a clone of an alien or human with I.Q. like a child.
>3) the zetas use drones for manual work.
>
>Meanwhile there are different kind of zetas,and for what I know I
>realy don't trust them since they could be used as puppets from other
>aliens species more cruel. (of course those humans that are trying to
>deal with them are the worst)
And the above paragraph shows just what a nutjob you are.
>
>..got it enough ..?
>
>judoka_61
--
Find out about Australia's most dangerous Doomsday Cult:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/pebble.htm
How to Cook an Alien:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/wanglese/Alien_recipes.html
"You can't fool me, it's turtles all the way down."
Thomas McDonald
<david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99gakvko9s5mos2sv...@4ax.com...
David,
I think that Pietro read a few woo-woo publications and websites, and
now has fixed ideas about how the world works. He seems pretty resistant to
learning anything new; and what he may seem to learn, he unlearns as
quickly.
He don't need no steenkin' research. He did all he needed some time
ago.
Tom McDonald
Liberlegis
> liberle...@yahoo.com (Liberlegis) wrote in message news:<24d045d9.03082...@posting.google.com>...
> > judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote in message news:<fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > >
> > > I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of
> > > days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us
> > > how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's
> > > pyramid (Chichen-itza)
> > > when they did not have technology ?
> > >
> > >
> > > judoka_61
> >
> > Hi Pietro,
> >
> > I love the Dolomites. Some of the most spectacular scenery on Earth. I
> > envy you! What did you do whilst there?
>
>
> Hi,in Milan was too hot, so I took a vacantion.
> I sleept 3 days on the top of Passo Sella,nice fresh air max 9°C nice sky
> I never get enough to watch those stars beatiful..by the way
> The glaciers are melting, and that is not B.S.
>
> judoka_61
Yes, I have heard that the glaciers are melting. It's worrying news.
Looks like the summers will be hotter in Europe from now on :-(
I imagine that the night sky was extremely impressive from that
altitude, you must have had amazing views. Glad you enjoyed it. How
did Mars look?
Regards,
LL
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
>David,
>
> I think that Pietro read a few woo-woo publications and websites, and
>now has fixed ideas about how the world works. He seems pretty resistant to
>learning anything new; and what he may seem to learn, he unlearns as
>quickly.
>
> He don't need no steenkin' research. He did all he needed some time
>ago.
>
>Tom McDonald
Very true - in fact I reckon the same indigenous races he's so quick
to put down as "primitive" would be more open to learning than he is.
Unfortunately it seems to be a growing trend these days to be
anti-science, to be dismissive of education and knowledge, and to give
credence to half-baked woo-woo ideas :{
Cardinal Chunder
>
> Mc Donald it is plain and simple: The Spanish-Conquistadores found the
> native americans in a primitive state..they were not eating fruit from
> a flat gold or flat alabaster dish,and they did not live in those
> monumental-city anymore ..in short the Conquistadores found a gap
> between those people and the huge and perfect constructions of
> central-south america..they had a lot of gold of course but also they
> did not gave too much consideration for it.
>
It's too bad you weren't around back then because you could have pointed
all this out.
I'm sure also the Spaniards would have been relieved to know that they
needn't have burnt the Mayan walled city of Utatlán to the ground
because the primitives all lived out in the boonies in loincloths, armed
with blades of grass, capable of only simple grunts and certainly not of
writing books such as the Popol Vuh.
And Cortés was clearly hallucinating when he described Aztec city of
Tenochtitlán as a large city with beautiful buildings, bridges, canals,
straight wide roads, magnificent temples and towers higher than Seville
cathedral. Again, you could have saved him the trouble of laying siege
to the place for three months.
Of course, you might like to do yourself a favour and read some of the
chronology and plug in a few terms into a search engine. You never know,
some of other people's knowledge might rub off on you for once, but
somehow I doubt it.
http://www.isourcecom.com/maya/conquest/conquestgeneral.htm
http://www.isourcecom.com/maya/books/popolvuh.htm
Cardinal Chunder
> ..naah !.. the compass experiment wasn't realy important for me...
So you just believe this bullshit even though this 'unimportant' and
simple experiment could have demonstrated quite easily that there was no
pole shift?
Admit it, you're really just cult fodder.
Pietro Sommavilla
they even did not use wheels...
>> Wheels do not a civilization make. They used wheels on toys; but,
>> without large draft animals like horses or oxen, wheels are of very
limited
>> utility. They used rivers and lakes extensively for travel; and
much of the
>> terrain in the areas of high culture were inimicable to wheeled
transport.
I disagree.
> You disagree? Is that the sum total of your debating abilities "I
> disagree"? How about putting forward some facts to support your position?
You want some fact ? so I have to make notice to you,that for build
cities like Machu Pichu, and the pyramid in central-america the maya
had to carry tons of huges stones, and others heavy materials, are you
a nut ? wheels ? the Maya did not needs wheels ? about some truck,or
cranes, or airplane to carry tons of stones on the top of a mountain
and build Machu Pichu ? the Maya did it ? of course ! the archeologist
will tell you that ! what else they can say !
> How can you disagree when you obviously don't know anything about how
> these people lived?
I just realize how those people lived.
Right ! archaeology books !
> That's about as bad as "I disagree". Do you have some problem with
> archeology, or with books? You could actually try reading one once in
> a while - you might learn something from it....
see.. (I disagree)
> You're coming across as one of the "anti-science" brigade, like many
> of the Zeta believers. You have the attitude that learning is a bad
> thing, that science is always wrong, and that your "new age
> philosophies" will supply the answers - which they won't.
..that is your point of view
>> The conquistadors had very good reasons to pretend that their
victims
>> were inferior; and, since they won, they got to tell the story
their way.
>> The fact is that when Cortez first saw Tenochtitlan, it was larger,
cleaner,
>> more orderly, and more prosperous than any European city of the
time. This
>> business of half-naked primatives is foolish, wrong-headed, and you
must be
>> either ignorant or a racist if you keep believing that after you've
been
>> directed where to go to correct your ignorance.
Nope, I'm not a racist and I disagree with you: The conquistadors did
not find the native americans in their schools or while they was
taking a walk in their trade route...simple because "they" renounce to
live in their city..year before the Spanish reach Central-South
America.
> Again you're making assertions without any supporting facts.
I read books,and these are facts, but for you I need a tons of
evidences and after that I will say again something against it.
>> No, the Spaniards' Indian allies did most of the direct killing
of the
>> Aztecs. Disease did by far the most killing, as the Spanish
brought
>> European diseases that the Americans weren't used to. Hell,
measles (mostly
>> a nusance to Europeans) killed Americans by droves. Smallpox wiped
out
>> whole populations. Technology had nothing to do with that.
"Primative"
>> doesn't enter into it at all.
That's the truth "half" of the native americans died of diseases...
(about the other half)..I'd like to see you while you try to defend
your farm with a stick while I have a gun..of course you can held off
me for a while..if you run or hide.
> Of course they were "outgunned" by the Spanish, but if you try
> _reading_ what Tom wrote above, you'll see that most of the killing
> wasn't done by the Spanish, but by native Indians, recruited by them.
ok half of native americans died by disease and by killing each
others.
The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge
city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge
about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why
they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone
else use astronomy ?
>> Who are you talking about? If you mean the Nazca, they didn't live
in
>> the middle of a jungle and they weren't naked.
I aggravated;they was wearing a couple of feathers..it is ok?
> That, if I may say so, is incredibly, condescendingly racist, about a
> people you are absolutely ignorant about.
How you can say that I'm a racist ? have you see some photo or movies
of the native americans that still live in jungle (Amazzonia)in the
discovery channel ? those people still live half naked..!
> I could as well cast all Italians as greasy layabouts who chase after
> women all the time. And that's without bringing up all the old war
> jokes about Italian tanks having 1 forward and 5 reverse gears.
ok..
> [Of course that was said purely for effect, and I find the Italians to
> be a very pleasant and friendly people - but it shows how a few words
> can slander an entire race.]
Exscuse me, did you say that I'm a racist because I sid that some
native american lived half naked ? so ? the first humans was
naked..and as a man I'm like the native american or native australian
doen't matter the color of the skin. The point was that I don't belive
that the Mayas built all those cities in central south america,
-period-.
>> No. The Nazca made them; and nearly all of them are visible while
>> standing right in the middle of them; those that are larger could
be seen
>> from a low hill. The whole business of "only seen from the sky" is
an
>> artifact of their modern "discovery" by someone flying over them in
an
>> airplane, and romanticising and mystifying their discovery by
pretending
>> that the poor ignorant native couldn't possibly have made them.
But they
>> did.
I disagree.
> You disagree again? So, don't you believe there are hills overlooking
> the lines? Have you looked at any of the work done to understand how
> the figures were created, and what part they played in their religion?
See..a lot of people can figure out why they created those "lines" but
you cannot..you are afraid to realize that.
..would you agree that someone.. departed from that continent
leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
>>Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally
incorrect,
>> and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that
has been
>> done on the topics.
>> For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
different kind of aliens ?
> Or maybe they were writing a mythology about gods and goddesses, about
> elemental forces, and about good and evil.
or maybe if you read the Rig Vedas you will find out about space crafr
and war tanks.
> Sometimes I think it's pointless trying to argue with idiots like you
> who are willing to accept every "new age" woo-woo idea that comes
> along, but won't believe a single scientific fact when it's patiently
> explained to them.
>
> DP
.. by the way do you know that an archeologist,Frederick
Mitchel-Hedges discovered in a Maya's temple in Belize 1919-1923 a
skull of quartz-crystal ?
Still in these days teams of scientist wonder how the Maya could make
a such perfect replica of a human skull, as a matter of fact still in
these days nobody can make a quartz-crystall skull so perfect..but
hey!..the Mayas did not use wheels, and of course I'm a racist..
Have a nice day now..
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
>I love the Dolomites. Some of the most spectacular scenery on Earth.
I
>envy you! What did you do whilst there?
Hi,in Milan was too hot, so I took a vacantion.
I sleept 3 days on the top of Passo Sella,nice fresh air max 9°C nice
sky
I never get enough to watch those stars beatiful..by the way
The glaciers are melting, and that is not B.S.
> Yes, I have heard that the glaciers are melting. It's worrying news.
> Looks like the summers will be hotter in Europe from now on :-(
yep, I guess so, I'm surprise that they're talking about it..
> I imagine that the night sky was extremely impressive from that
> altitude, you must have had amazing views. Glad you enjoyed it. How
> did Mars look?
>
> Regards,
>
> LL
Beatiful.. but not just Mars !
You can stay all night long to watch the sky, anyway the first day
wasn't very good 'cause some fog and clouds I got luck the very next
day.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Ok, I will.
Pietro Sommavilla
I wrote: 2002-03-04 subject (Prove it !)
Maybe this pole shift is not a magnetic pole shift which happens often
but rather a continental shift this could mean crustal dispacement
..ect..ect..
oh !? yes..? am I ?!
thanks !
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Well, from my point of view "primitive" could be someone like an
ignorant, that doesn't mean a bad thing.
As a matter of fact; if you live a cave.. naked but respect yourself
and all the life around you you're still a "primitive" but I will love
and respect you like you're a Saint.
If you live in a great pyramid, walk in paved roads and you wear a
nice dress, and every day you rip off the people'hearts and you will
eat those hearts in the name of God ...you're still a primitive.
judoka_61
Cardinal Chunder
> Cardinal Chunder <c...@foo.no.spam.xyzabcfghllaa.com> wrote in message news:<82q4ib...@192.168.1.1>...
>
>>Pietro Sommavilla wrote:
>>
>>>..naah !.. the compass experiment wasn't realy important for me...
>>
>>So you just believe this bullshit even though this 'unimportant' and
>>simple experiment could have demonstrated quite easily that there was no
>>pole shift?
>>
>>Admit it, you're really just cult fodder.
>
>
> I wrote: 2002-03-04 subject (Prove it !)
I'll take you at your word.
> Maybe this pole shift is not a magnetic pole shift which happens often
> but rather a continental shift this could mean crustal dispacement
> ..ect..ect..
>
> oh !? yes..? am I ?!
> thanks !
> judoka_61
Here we see a classic example of grasping for some equally implausible
explanation for a non existent phenomena when your first pet 'theory'
can be shot down in flames with a simple experiment.
A more level headed person might be wondering that if the pole shift
claim is demonstrably false, then what else is too? Perhaps it might
even occur that they've been lied to considering none of other fantastic
calamaties promised by Nancy materialised either.
But not you...
If it's a toss up between you being wrong and reality being wrong,
reality loses every time eh?
So yes you are cult fodder.
Cardinal Chunder
>
> If you live in a great pyramid, walk in paved roads and you wear a
> nice dress, and every day you rip off the people'hearts and you will
> eat those hearts in the name of God ...you're still a primitive.
>
> judoka_61
So you're not a primitive if your church just symbolises eating flesh
and blood with bread and wine, but tortures and burns men, women and
children for heresy and witchcraft?
How about a church and army that justifies burning cities and towns to
the ground, exterminating large numbers of people and sending the rest
off off into barbaric slavery because they are heathens?
Pietro Sommavilla
leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
>>Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally
incorrect,
>> and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that
has been
>> done on the topics.
>> For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
different kind of aliens ?
> Or maybe they were writing a mythology about gods and goddesses, about
> elemental forces, and about good and evil.
that move at the thought's speed and amphibian war tanks..
In the "Samsaptkabadha" you can read about the use of the "Vimana"
they was some kind of wars machines and aircrafts,in the "Samarangana"
and "Sutradhara" you car read the description of these maschines,in
the "Mahabharata" you can read that: Brahma's weapons should not been
used against the humans 'cause the humans don't know about these
weapons.
In the "Ramayana" you can read the description of a fight between
Rama and Ravana...with aircrafts.
>> Sometimes I think it's pointless trying to argue with idiots like
you
>> who are willing to accept every "new age" woo-woo idea that comes
>> along, but won't believe a single scientific fact when it's
patiently
>> explained to them.
>>
>> DP
. by the way do you know that an archeologist,Frederick
Mitchel-Hedges discovered in a Maya's temple in Belize 1919-1923 a
skull of quartz-crystal ?
Still in these days teams of scientist wonder how the Maya could make
a such perfect replica of a human skull, as a matter of fact still in
these days nobody can make a quartz-crystall skull so perfect..but
hey!..the native americans did not use wheels though the Incas built
Machu Pichu and of course they carry tons of stones in their back
'cause they did not need wheels, who said that ? the archaeologists !
of course ! and what they can say the archaeologist ? that the aliens
built Machu Pichu ? naah since the aliens did not sign their name on
it,and no one has found the contract, there is no proof..com'on !
judoka_61 the primitive racist
Cardinal Chunder
>
> Ok, Mc Donald you're right...
> I need strong historic evidences for the alien-case but still
> I've the issue of the cystal skull.
What issue? I hope you're not claiming that it is absolutely impossible
to fashion a lump of quartz or any other rock into a skull.
Because that would be a ludicrous statement, even assuming whichever skull
or skulls you're referring to were even made by Mayans and not a modern
hoax.
Wally Anglesea™
Sommavilla) wrote:
>..would you agree that someone.. departed from that continent
> leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use
> from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ?
>
>>>Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally
>incorrect,
>>> and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that
>has been
>>> done on the topics.
>>> For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
>
>
>I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
>extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
>or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
>different kind of aliens ?
And the Norse had wars between Giants and the inhabitants of Asgard.
So what?
>
>> Or maybe they were writing a mythology about gods and goddesses, about
>> elemental forces, and about good and evil.
>
>or maybe if you read the Rig Vedas you will find out about space craft
>that move at the thought's speed and amphibian war tanks..
And then maybe if you read ancient legends, you might read about a guy
who fought a sea monster that killed most of his buddies.
>
>In the "Samsaptkabadha" you can read about the use of the "Vimana"
>they was some kind of wars machines and aircrafts,in the "Samarangana"
>and "Sutradhara" you car read the description of these maschines,in
>the "Mahabharata" you can read that: Brahma's weapons should not been
>used against the humans 'cause the humans don't know about these
>weapons.
>
>In the "Ramayana" you can read the description of a fight between
>Rama and Ravana...with aircrafts.
*most* ancient cultures have legends of their gods flying, because
it's something humans cannot do. Today we have comic books with people
with super powers. JUst because someone has legends, don't make 'em
true.
<SNIP>
Cardinal Chunder
> Did you knows about that paved road that now ends in tha midle of the
> atlantic ocean ? is in centlal america.
Enlighten me.
> Did you know that from the northengate of the main part of the isle of
> Mothia; start an under-sea road which is still useable; it's 1770
> metres long and unites the isle to a necropolis in ..Sicily ?
Oh look, you can cut and paste.
"From "Porta Nord" (Nothern Gate) the main part of the isle of Mothia
starts an under-sea road, which is still useable; it's 1770 metres long
and unites the isle to Birgi's necropolis."
http://www.lilybeomarsala.com/sale/inglese/road.html
Interesting but utterly beside the point unless you're saying someone
other than humans made this road.
> What you think ? am I a cult fodder ? nope, you like or not I'm a
> digger.
>
> judoka_61
Yes you are cult fodder. You appear to no capacity to reach logical
conclusions and reach for the fantastic when there is a simpler more
mundane explanation.
How long before you hitch your sail to some other crazy outfit? I'm sure
the Raelians would be delighted to welcome you into their fold, assuming
you have money of course.
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
> "Thomas McDonald" <ts...@wwt.net> wrote in message
> I need strong historic evidences for the alien-case but still
> I've the issue of the cystal skull.
Pietro,
I also have the issue of the crystal skull. Here's one place to see
several comments on it:
http://www.ramtops.demon.co.uk/mesofaq.html
(It's a very long page; the relevant bits are about 4/5 of the way down.
I got there by doing a "Find on this page" search.)
The bottom line is:
1. None of the crystal skulls can be traced back any further than the
end of the 1800's;
2. About that time, a village in Germany began to work in that type of
crystal, producing pieces (with no indication of their origin) of equivalent
quality and detail to the "Maya skulls"; additionally, similar crystal had
been worked in Europe in the 1500's and 1600's;
3. Tests run on two of the skulls (not the one you mention, Pietro) by
the British Museum show, under high magnification and proper light,
extremely regular fine striations consistent with machine-work, and not
hand-polishing;
4. The story told by Frederick Mitchel-Hedges' stepdaughter, Anna
Mitchel-Hedges, has changed over the years. The actual 'finding' of the
skull is in doubt; Frederick Mitchel-Hedges is said to have written a letter
in 1945 in which he says he doesn't want to reveal the source of the skull.
This implies that the story of his stepdaughter finding it is at least in
grave doubt, and nothing upon which to base anything;
5. The skull's supposed perfect anatomical correctness says nothing
about its origin; pretty much everywhere in the world, it is possible to get
human skulls for reference. Indeed, the Maya's prediliction for human
sacrifice, as well as trepination, ensures that they were intimately
conversant with the actual anatomy of the human head.
>
> Do you know that the native americans was happy when they saw for the
> first time the Spanish, they said:[They're they kept their promise
> they're back]..but of corse the Spanish wasn't "those" beings.
That's not the story anyone else tells, Pietro. Some might have been
pleased that a prophecy seemed to be fulfilled; but the majority were
disturbed, not happy. In addition, you seem to lump all Native Americans
together, as though they were all the same. That's exactly the same as
saying that 'the Eurasians were happy to see the Crusaders come through
their cities'. Some were, most were not, and nearly all were made very
uncomfortable by the Crusader armies, whether they welcomed them or not.
Even if you limit your statement to Mesoamerica, by far the majority of
Native Americans at the time did not welcome the Spanish with open arms; at
best, they saw them as possible allies against the oppression of the Aztecs;
at worst, they saw in the coming of the Spanish the end of their world,
their way of life.
Again I urge you to read some of the real archaeology and history of
those times, and not rely only on New Age or other fringe writings.
Tom McDonald
>
> judoka
Thomas McDonald
"Pietro Sommavilla" <judo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd27f7c5.03082...@posting.google.com...
> atlantic ocean ? is in centlal america.
Pietro,
If you mean the "Bimini Road" (sic), that's not in Central America.
It's in the Atlantic Ocean, 50 miles east of Florida. The "road" there is
most likely a natural formation, not made by sentient beings.
Tom McDonald
>
> Did you know that from the northengate of the main part of the isle of
> Mothia; start an under-sea road which is still useable; it's 1770
> metres long and unites the isle to a necropolis in ..Sicily ?
>
Pietro Sommavilla
Pietro Sommavilla
Wally Anglesea™
Sommavilla) wrote:
>Wally Anglesea? <wang...@spbigpondammersareparasites.net.au> wrote in message news:<3luekv0h0264nqm6r...@4ax.com>...
>
>>For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth.
You are an idtiot, and you don't know how to attribute properly.
>
>I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ? a lot of
>extraterrestrial stuff over there..was the ancient Indus zetadrones ?
>or maybe they just wrote about aliens space crafts and wars amongst
>different kind of aliens ?
Or maybe they just had different legends, the same way all ancient
cultures have them.
>
>> And the Norse had wars between Giants and the inhabitants of Asgard.
>> So what?
>
>>Or maybe they were writing a mythology about gods and goddesses, about
>>elemental forces, and about good and evil.
>
>or maybe if you read the Rig Vedas you will find out about space craft
>that move at the thought's speed and amphibian war tanks..
Repeating it doesn't make it right, and doesn't make you any less
kookier.
>
>> And then maybe if you read ancient legends, you might read about a guy
>> who fought a sea monster that killed most of his buddies.
>
>In the "Samsaptkabadha" you can read about the use of the "Vimana"
>they was some kind of wars machines and aircrafts,in the "Samarangana"
>and "Sutradhara" you car read the description of these maschines,in
>the "Mahabharata" you can read that: Brahma's weapons should not been
>used against the humans 'cause the humans don't know about these weapons.
>
>In the "Ramayana" you can read the description of a fight between
>Rama and Ravana...with aircrafts.
>
>> *most* ancient cultures have legends of their gods flying, because
>> it's something humans cannot do. Today we have comic books with people
>> with super powers. JUst because someone has legends, don't make 'em
>> true.
--
Cardinal Chunder
I'm noticing a pattern here that when confronted with some straight
questions, you go off on a tangent rather than address them.
So are you going to answer them or not?
1. What is the name of this vaunted road from South America to the
middle of the Atlantic?
2. Why did you cut and paste some blurb about some barely submerged
track across a length of lagoon?
For someone seeking the truth, you're going a pretty lousy job.
> http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/judoka_61mypage.html
As for this, perhaps if you attributed your pictures (e.g who drew them
and how did they draw them and in what context if any this was done) we
might know what the hell you're talking about.
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
(snip)
>I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ?
Have _you_ read them Pietro? I very much doubt it. More likely
you're just quoting bits of web pages of other people who also claim
to have read them, and who make their own interpretations of what they
think they contain (or what they'd like them to contain).
No, I very much doubt if you've done any kind of reading or research
beyond a few sensationalist web sites - which you're gullible enough
to believe.
(snip)
>judoka_61 the primitive racist
Well, you got something right at least :)
Pietro Sommavilla
> Pietro Sommavilla wrote:
Did you knows about that paved road that now ends in tha midle of the
atlantic ocean ? is in central america.
>>Enlighten me.
Did you know that from the northengate of the main part of the isle of
Mothia; start an under-sea road which is still useable; it's 1770
metres long and unites the isle to a necropolis in ..Sicily ?
>Oh look, you can cut and paste.
>"From "Porta Nord" (Nothern Gate) the main part of the isle of Mothia
>starts an under-sea road, which is still useable; it's 1770 metres
long
>and unites the isle to Birgi's necropolis."
http://www.lilybeomarsala.com/sale/inglese/road.html
>Interesting but utterly beside the point unless you're saying someone
>other than humans made this road.
What you think ? am I a cult fodder ? nope, you like or not I'm a
digger.
>Yes you are cult fodder. You appear to no capacity to reach logical
>conclusions and reach for the fantastic when there is a simpler more
mundane explanation.
>How long before you hitch your sail to some other crazy outfit? I'm
sure
>the Raelians would be delighted to welcome you into their fold,
assuming
>you have money of course.
> I'm noticing a pattern here that when confronted with some straight
> questions, you go off on a tangent rather than address them.
>
> So are you going to answer them or not?
>
>1. What is the name of this vaunted road from South America to the
> middle of the Atlantic?
Well,the point is;that there are city and road in tha botton of oceans
and seas
and I did not bother to find out the name of them.
> 2. Why did you cut and paste some blurb about some barely submerged
> track across a length of lagoon?
(again) I trying to put together some evidences of previous pole
shift.
The issues are about the possibility of previos pole shift(no a
magnetic one)
and the possibility of extraterrestrial evidences in the earth.
> For someone seeking the truth, you're going a pretty lousy job.
thanks..!
http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/judoka_61mypage.html
> As for this, perhaps if you attributed your pictures (e.g who drew them
> and how did they draw them and in what context if any this was done) we
> might know what the hell you're talking about.
(again) ..if you read the Rig Vedas you will understand what I'm
talking about.
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
about
>elemental forces, and about good and evil.
or maybe if you read the Rig Vedas you will find out about space craft
that move at the thought's speed and amphibian war tanks..
> Repeating it doesn't make it right, and doesn't make you any less
> kookier.
> >> And then maybe if you read ancient legends, you might read about a guy
> >> who fought a sea monster that killed most of his buddies.
In the "Samsaptkabadha" you can read about the use of the "Vimana"
they was some kind of wars machines and aircrafts,in the "Samarangana"
and "Sutradhara" you car read the description of these maschines,in
the "Mahabharata" you can read that: Brahma's weapons should not been
used against the humans 'cause the humans don't know about these
weapons.
In the "Ramayana" you can read the description of a fight between
Rama and Ravana...with aircrafts.
> >> *most* ancient cultures have legends of their gods flying, because
> >> it's something humans cannot do. Today we have comic books with people
> >> with super powers. JUst because someone has legends, don't make 'em
> >> true.
Listen.. let's put it in this way... you debate and show your theory
against the possibility of extraterrestrial and pole shift evidences,
I don't wanna argue with you,because I respect most of you debunkers
'cause you are realy delight to explain about some matters in a
patient way (see Mc Donald) so I will not post anymore suject about
E.T. or P.S. issues in sci.astro
thanks
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
What on earth was the point of that? All you've done is repost a
message, completely screwing with the attribution and indentation,
making it into complete nonsense.
You know, sometimes it's quite interesting to debate issues like the
paranormal, existence of ET's and such like, but most people try to
follow logical arguments making points and counter points. All you do
is repeat the same idiotic statements over and over again, and when
you're backed into a corner you either ignore the other person's
arguments (and repeat your statements again) or you do something
stupid as in the above post.
Frankly I'm coming to the opinion that you're just a gullible teenager
(and a poorly educated one at that) who's discovered the net is full
of crackpot ideas you can latch onto. I don't think I'll waste any
more of my time in pointless arguments with you....
Pietro Sommavilla
> > (snip)
>
> I don't think so..did you read the Rig Vedas ?
>
> > Have _you_ read them Pietro? I very much doubt it. More likely
> > you're just quoting bits of web pages of other people who also claim
> > to have read them, and who make their own interpretations of what they
> > think they contain (or what they'd like them to contain).
> >
> > No, I very much doubt if you've done any kind of reading or research
> > beyond a few sensationalist web sites - which you're gullible enough
> > to believe.
> >
> > (snip)
>
> judoka_61 the primitive racist
>
> > Well, you got something right at least :)
> >
> > DP
Thanks !
judoka_61
CeeBee
> What on earth was the point of that? All you've done is repost a
> message, completely screwing with the attribution and indentation,
> making it into complete nonsense.
So.......................................it seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>you
> judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote:
>>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
> judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote:
>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
> judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote:
>>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)
>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)
>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
> judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote:
>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
> judo...@hotmail.com (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote:
>>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
>>news:<po1gkvck41ieurdh0...@4ax.com>...
>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)
>>> (snip)>>> (snip)>>> (snip)
>david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com wrote in message
...are <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
new..... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
to Pietro's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
style of writing ..............messages................
I...........
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< see
But after a while you'll know how to decipher them. By then he's in your
plonkfile however, so spare yourself the trouble.
--
CeeBee
Uxbridge: "By God, sir, I've lost my leg!"
Wellington: "By God, sir, so you have!"
Google CeeBee @ www.geocities.com/ceebee_2
david.p...@noluncheonmeat.btinternet.com
LOL - good one! No, I've seen his style before, but thought he'd
grown out of it. I've had him in my killfile for ages, but caught a
few replies to his messages and thought he'd "matured" enough to
actually hold a debate, and to learn something. It seems I was wrong
however.
He doesn't seem capable of any kind of rational thought, and I'm
surprised he can even manage to work a computer :))
Anyway, he's going back in the killfile for a few more months to see
if he can grow up a bit....
DP
--
David_Paterson = david.p...@btinternet.com Ś david.p...@vissci.com;
Senior programmer There are three kinds of people in the world -
Visual Science Ltd. those who can count, and those who can't...
Cardinal Chunder
> Well,the point is;that there are city and road in tha botton of oceans
> and seas
> and I did not bother to find out the name of them.
Wow, you really know your stuff! Some unspecified road and city at the
bottom of the sea and you don't even bother to know their names, or even
where they are or even if they exist I bet.
>>For someone seeking the truth, you're going a pretty lousy job.
>
> thanks..!
>
It was a joke with a very obvious point.
>>As for this, perhaps if you attributed your pictures (e.g who drew them
>>and how did they draw them and in what context if any this was done) we
>>might know what the hell you're talking about.
>
>
> (again) ..if you read the Rig Vedas you will understand what I'm
> talking about.
Perhaps you'd like to synopsise this work so we might better understand
where you're coming from. You can also (again) explain what the hell
this has to do with anything, especially with failed compass
experiments. You do realise that when you get shot down on one subject
you immediately switch to another?
Pietro Sommavilla
>>> CeeBee <cee...@aussiemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>But after a while you'll know how to decipher them. By then he's in
your
>>>plonkfile however, so spare yourself the trouble.
> LOL - good one! No, I've seen his style before, but thought he'd
> grown out of it. I've had him in my killfile for ages, but caught a
> few replies to his messages and thought he'd "matured" enough to
> actually hold a debate, and to learn something. It seems I was wrong
> however.
>
> He doesn't seem capable of any kind of rational thought, and I'm
> surprised he can even manage to work a computer :))
>
> Anyway, he's going back in the killfile for a few more months to see
> if he can grow up a bit....
>
> DP
judoka_61 wrote: 2002-11-12 01:45:3 PTS (NGC 6368)
The nebula NGC 6369 well know to the astronomy researcher as "little
ghost" is going through its final cycle of existence,everything in
this universe is subject to a change. (no for Mr bee)
DP wrote: 2002-11-12 12:42:45 PTS
Do you just make tis rubbish up,or does someone write it down for you
?
NGC 6369 is a rather nice planetary nebula....
I guess someone here as a big mouth..
judoka_61
Pietro Sommavilla
Pietro Sommavilla wrote:
Well,the point is;that there are city and road in tha botton of oceans
and seas and I did not bother to find out the name of them.
> Wow, you really know your stuff! Some unspecified road and city at the
> bottom of the sea and you don't even bother to know their names, or even
> where they are or even if they exist I bet.
>>>For someone seeking the truth, you're going a pretty lousy job.
thanks..!
> It was a joke with a very obvious point.
I was sarcastic.
>>>As for this, perhaps if you attributed your pictures (e.g who drew
them
>>>and how did they draw them and in what context if any this was
done) we
>>>might know what the hell you're talking about.
(again) ..if you read the Rig Vedas you will understand what I'm
talking about.
> Perhaps you'd like to synopsise this work so we might better understand
> where you're coming from. You can also (again) explain what the hell
> this has to do with anything, especially with failed compass
> experiments. You do realise that when you get shot down on one subject
> you immediately switch to another?
..failed compass experiment ? I did that experiment and I did not give
too much importance to it, and I also explained why.
=========(check it out)==============
Pietro Sommavilla
ignorant, that doesn't mean a bad thing.
As a matter of fact; if you live a cave.. naked but respect yourself
and all the life around you you're still a "primitive" but I will love
and respect you like you're a Saint.
If you use to live in a great pyramid,and walk in paved roads and wear
a nice dress,and every day you rip off the people'hearts and you will
Pietro Sommavilla
> Pietro Sommavilla wrote:
>
>
> where you're coming from. You can also (again) explain what the hell
> this has to do with anything, especially with failed compass
> experiments. You do realise that when you get shot down on one subject
> you immediately switch to another?
(again)
judoka_61 wrote: suject (prove it !) 2002-03-04
Maybe this pole shift is not a magnetic pole shift which happens often
but rather a continental shift this could mean crustal
displacement..ect..ect..
Cardinal Chunder
> ..failed compass experiment ? I did that experiment and I did not give
> too much importance to it, and I also explained why.
You sure explained why, but it can be summarised as a big fob off.
Your pet theory was violently hurled kicking and screaming off the
cliffs of reality. Rather than accept you might have been utterly wrong
you immediately reached for another equally unsupported notion.
And how's your latest pole shift idea going? I'm surprised to even be
engaging you in conversation considering that the world as we know it
ended in May.
Pietro Sommavilla
The native americans did not use wheels.. though the Incas built
Machu Pichu and the Mayas build their pyramids and of course they
carry tons of stones in their back 'cause they did not need wheels.
Who said that ? the archaeologists !
of course ! and what they can say the archaeologists ? that the aliens
built Machu Pichu or ? naah ! since the aliens did not sign their name
on
it,and no one has found the contract, there is no proof, so it is like
the archaeologists say; hey ! the fairy tales build it !
judoka_61
CeeBee
sci.astro:
> And the Norse had wars between Giants and the inhabitants of Asgard.
> So what?
Is that the famous reference of the fight betweeen the unmarked
helicopters and the weather balloons?
Cardinal Chunder
So in summary your position is:
"I have no capacity for understanding how these highly intelligent and
motivated peoples managed to build a stone structure, even over the
course of decades with ample evidence of tools and quarrying so
therefore it must be space aliens."
DrPostman
> You want some fact ? so I have to make notice to you,that for build
> cities like Machu Pichu, and the pyramid in central-america the maya
> had to carry tons of huges stones, and others heavy materials, are you
> a nut ? wheels ? the Maya did not needs wheels ? about some truck,or
> cranes, or airplane to carry tons of stones on the top of a mountain
> and build Machu Pichu ? the Maya did it ? of course ! the archeologist
> will tell you that ! what else they can say !
>
Hey DumDum, there are stones that fell off the road up to Machu Pichu. If
aliens or some other claim of yours were responsible for building it they
were VERY sloppy. We have thier tools and we even have evidence that many
of the stones fell off the path. Do you work hard at being this stupid?
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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DrPostman
> Pietro,
>
> If you mean the "Bimini Road" (sic), that's not in Central
> America.
> It's in the Atlantic Ocean, 50 miles east of Florida. The "road"
> there is most likely a natural formation, not made by sentient beings.
>
> Tom McDonald
I can vouch for that. I did a lot of scuba diving around Bimini and Cat
Key and dove on the location of the so called "wall". It's called Beach
Rock and there is nothing man made about it. And the alleged columns that
can be found a few hundred yards south are from a cement barge that sank
there in the 50's. The wooden barrels have rotted away leaving a round
shape. If the sensationalist writters would have bothered to ask the local
folks about it they would have learned the truth.
I miss Bimini. I crave me some conch fritters.
Pietro Sommavilla
..bravo ! now if there aren't any furhter questions..I think my
biscuits are burning..
thanks
judoka_61
DrPostman
Sommavilla) wrote:
How do you explain the stones that fell off the path up to Machu
Pichu?
We have their tools and their quarries. Why are you so ignorant
of how they were built, even AFTER I posted links that explain?
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors of afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® member #15-51506-253.
You can email me at: eckles(at)midsouth.rr.com
"The services provided by Sylvia Browne Corporation are highly
speculative in nature and we do not guarantee that the results
of our work will be satisfactory to a client."
-Sylvia's Refund Policy
DrPostman
Sommavilla) wrote:
No, that smell would be your brain.
Pietro Sommavilla
heavy materials,the native americans did not needs wheels ? about some
trucks,or
cranes, or helicopter to carry tons of stones on the top of that
mountain ?
>Dr Postman wrote:
> Hey DumDum, there are stones that fell off the road up to Machu Pichu. If
> aliens or some other claim of yours were responsible for building it they
> were VERY sloppy. We have thier tools and we even have evidence that many
> of the stones fell off the path. Do you work hard at being this stupid?
# water infiltration.
Did you know that in Machu Pichu rain 200 days.. every year ?
Did you know that Machu Pichu was built several centuries ago ?
Everything in this world will come to an end..so
doesn't matter who made a pyramid or a city on the top of a
mountain.
judoka_61
Cardinal Chunder
> You want some fact ? so I have to make notice to you,that for build
> cities like Machu Pichu,had to carry tons of huges stones, and others
> heavy materials,the native americans did not needs wheels ? about some
> trucks,or
> cranes, or helicopter to carry tons of stones on the top of that
> mountain ?
So you can conceive of no way to drag or lift a stone up a mountain? Not
a single idea enters your head?