Re: Al-Qaeda nukes real threat to USA...
Helmut Wabnig
<Real...@Colorado.USA> wrote:
>........
>Therefore, be sure to watch CNN's in-depth analysis of Al-Qaeda's nuclear weapons
> threat this Sunday, September 12th-i.e., if Al-Qaeda hasn't already used them
> on us in the meantime.
>....
Suitcase Nukes exist, no doubt, but what wannado?
Nuke back in advance?
w.
--
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
IN NONE WE TRUST.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Uncle Al
>
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 13:59:04 -0600, "Daniel Joseph Min"
> <Real...@Colorado.USA> wrote:
> >........
> >Therefore, be sure to watch CNN's in-depth analysis of Al-Qaeda's nuclear weapons
> > threat this Sunday, September 12th-i.e., if Al-Qaeda hasn't already used them
> > on us in the meantime.
> >....
> Suitcase Nukes exist, no doubt, but what wannado?
>
> Nuke back in advance?
Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon Islam can
swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
Cairo, Egypt 7,764,700
Tehran, Iran 7,722,900
Baghdad, Iraq 4,948,300
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia 3,627,700
Jiddah, Saudi Arabia 2,674,000
Mashhad, Iran 2,040,700
Aleppo (Halab), Syria 1,891,900
Damascus, Syria 1,803,700
Sana'a, Yemen 1,653,300
================================
Wake up call 34,127,200 dead
Hey Allah, wanna play martyr hardball with the United States? The
Ka'aba can be a megatonne hypocenter no more than 20 minutes afer the
decision is made.
"Find out who they are.
Kill them all.
Kill their wives.
Kill their children.
Kill their parents.
Kill their friends.
Kill their neighbors.
Kill their animals.
Salt the earth where they lived.
Mount their heads on pikes on the steps of the Capitol."
- Ted Morris, 12 September 2001
Uncle Al says, "Hit them so hard that their vanishingly few
grandchildren will shit blood every time they hear 'USA'."
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
BuZZard
wrote:
>On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 13:59:04 -0600, "Daniel Joseph Min"
><Real...@Colorado.USA> wrote:
>>........
>>Therefore, be sure to watch CNN's in-depth analysis of Al-Qaeda's nuclear weapons
>> threat this Sunday, September 12th-i.e., if Al-Qaeda hasn't already used them
>> on us in the meantime.
>>....
>Suitcase Nukes exist, no doubt, but what wannado?
>
>Nuke back in advance?
>
>w.
I dont know there is much we can do...
Actually I would have laughed this off 2 weeks ago... but with the
rise in events of actual terrorism... and the killing of Russian
children... I donno...
I think the Russians should start kicking some ass though.
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Maleki
>
> Uncle Al says, "Hit them so hard that their vanishingly few
> grandchildren will shit blood every time they hear 'USA'."
>
Uncle Al(cohol) speaking again. I wish you could understand
the Persianized Arabic saying below more than a baboon
would. Hehe :) It's about you.
--
valadol ahmagh nesfol ahmagh, valadol Alem nesfol
Alem.
robert j. kolker
Uncle Al wrote:
>
> Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
> contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon Islam can
> swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
>
> Cairo, Egypt 7,764,700
> Tehran, Iran 7,722,900
> Baghdad, Iraq 4,948,300
> Riyadh, Saudi Arabia 3,627,700
> Jiddah, Saudi Arabia 2,674,000
> Mashhad, Iran 2,040,700
> Aleppo (Halab), Syria 1,891,900
> Damascus, Syria 1,803,700
> Sana'a, Yemen 1,653,300
> ================================
> Wake up call 34,127,200 dead
You forgot Meccah and Madina.
>
> Hey Allah, wanna play martyr hardball with the United States? The
> Ka'aba can be a megatonne hypocenter no more than 20 minutes afer the
> decision is made.
>
> "Find out who they are.
> Kill them all.
> Kill their wives.
> Kill their children.
> Kill their parents.
> Kill their friends.
> Kill their neighbors.
> Kill their animals.
> Salt the earth where they lived.
> Mount their heads on pikes on the steps of the Capitol."
> - Ted Morris, 12 September 2001
>
> Uncle Al says, "Hit them so hard that their vanishingly few
> grandchildren will shit blood every time they hear 'USA'."
From your mouth to God's Ear.
Bob Kolker
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mongol General : We have won again. That is good! But what is best in life?
Mongol Soldier : The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist,
wind in your hair!
Mongol General : Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
Conan : To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear
the lamentation of their women!
Mongol General : That is good.
>
Maleki
> From your mouth to God's Ear.
>
> Bob Kolker
>
That's a Persian expression. Are you sure your root is not
in Iran?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mongol General : We have won again. That is good! But what is best in life?
> Mongol Soldier : The open steppe, fleet horse, falcon on your wrist,
> wind in your hair!
> Mongol General : Wrong! Conan, what is best in life?
> Conan : To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear
> the lamentation of their women!
> Mongol General : That is good.
>
And Iranians turned Mongols into Shi'ite Moslems. Wait to
see what we'll do to you.
--
salAhe kAr kojA va man kharAbe kojA
"Hafez"
Big Questions
> On Sun, 5 Sep 2004 13:59:04 -0600, "Daniel Joseph Min"
> <Real...@Colorado.USA> wrote:
> >........
> >Therefore, be sure to watch CNN's in-depth analysis of Al-Qaeda's nuclear weapons
> > threat this Sunday, September 12th-i.e., if Al-Qaeda hasn't already used them
> > on us in the meantime.
> >....
> Suitcase Nukes exist, no doubt, but what wannado?
>
> Nuke back in advance?
>
> w.
I think that you will find that the Bush family sold the nuke material
to them in the first place.
..
>
> "Find out who they are.
> Kill them all.
> Kill their wives.
> Kill their children.
> Kill their parents.
> Kill their friends.
> Kill their neighbors.
> Kill their animals.
> Salt the earth where they lived.
> Mount their heads on pikes on the steps of the Capitol."
> - Ted Morris, 12 September 2001
I don't know who Ted Morris is, but I like the guy and I think HE should be
president if he could make this happen.
D.E.
Sure, and the oil supplies will burn before your eyes and then
you are screwed also. very smart plan.
Bobby D. Bryant
Fight evil by imitating it?
Also, how many of the remaining 1.5 Muslims billion will be moderates
after you do that?
Your proposed solution appears to be as ineffective as it is immoral.
--
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
BuZZard
On 4 Sep 2004 22:11:30 -0700, bigquest...@yahoo.com (Big
Questions) wrote:
Actually - it was the Russians.
They are missing 88 suitcase nukes out of 120 yadda yaddddaaa
yadddaaaaaaaaaa.
but it was sold to them by x-kgb/Russian Mafia peeps.
but yeah, blaming the USA for it seems more plausible doesn't it?
I bet Kerry was involved too, somehow since him and Bush went to the
same collage and all... I bet both bush and Kerry went to Afghanistan
and sold them the nukes right?
They flew there in their big yellow and pink saucer... then they took
a "special" yellow school bus to meet with Osama
James Calivar
news:f1719e62.04090...@posting.google.com...
Wrong. But a typical misconception among Euro-whiners.
Karl Johanson
> > I think that you will find that the Bush family sold the nuke material
> > to them in the first place.
>
> Wrong. But a typical misconception among Euro-whiners.
Quite so. It's that Bush senior allowed the sale of Anthrax to Iraq, while
he knew they were using gas on the Kurds.
Karl Johanson
James Calivar
news:CU8%c.320103$M95.94077@pd7tw1no...
Wrong again. But I'm sure you already knew that. You just have such a hard-on
for badmouthing the US that any excuse will do. Buh bye.
BuZZard
They are just jealous cuz they don't have our super technology
=P~ ~ ~ plplplpl
I got a ray gun and youuuuu don't!!! nah nah naaah nah nah!
Karl Johanson
I was talking about Bush senior, not the US. Sounds like you have me
confused with someone else.
Karl Johanson
Rodney Kelp
Thinking like the enemy again I see.
"Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:413A523C...@hate.spam.net...
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Rodney Kelp <Rodney...@hotmail.com> says...
>
>Thinking like the enemy again I see.
Crossposting like a spammer again I see.
Alfred Einstead
> > Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
> > contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon Islam can
> > swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
Fighting fire with fire.
> Also, how many of the remaining [500-750 million] Muslims will
> be [alive] after you do that [and further similar actions to
> follow up and finite the process]?
Corrections noted.
None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
Very soon. Not the US.
robert j. kolker
Alfred Einstead wrote:
>
> None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> Very soon. Not the US.
Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
world. Truly a glorious idea.
The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
Bob Kolker
jmfb...@aol.com
Then how do we deal with the Christian Right? They will burn
all science books. I don't think erasure will solve the basic
problem of ideologues with access to WMDs.
It sure seems like these Muslims' strategy is to completely
irradicate all of civilization, not just western civilization.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Uncle Al
Very soon, very hard. It is in the Russian national character. It is
political life or death for Putin. The interested reader might look
up Putin's resume and see what he did for a living before his present
employment.
Rules of engagment are in place for international conflict. The idea
is to isolate civilian populations from miltary conflict, allowing
politics to proceed without fundamentally damaging the host nations.
Transgressors get crunched hard - Hiroshima and Nagasaki for Pearl
Harbor. General Douglas MacArthur accepted the Japanese
unconditional surrender while he and his entire entourage were dressed
in fatigues. He rubbed their faces in it.
President Jimmy "Peanut" Carter was the first Officially impotent US
president. Iran's invasion of US embassy grounds should have been an
instant declaration of war with heinous widespread retribution. When
the eagle was discovered to have no talons, every piss-ant polity
started shitting on it.
11 September 2001 was merely an increment. President Bush the Lesser
was proven impotent a la the Carter model. He should have massively
nuked a Muslim country off the Earth. Any one would have been
satisfactory by the de facto rules of engagement. Now we will pay
fill price in progressively greater gulps.
Russia has two distinct uncompromising choices. It can surrender to
its militant Muslims, or it can retaliate by the de facto rules of
engagement - umlimited death; anything that can be killed or
destroyed, no mitigating rules, no exceptions. The rational,
masculine, real world solution is to so gorge a martyr religion with
its own corpses that it loses its appetite for death.
This is no big mystery. In the movie "The Untouchables," Sean Connery
playing cop Jimmy Malone instructs a naïve Eliot Ness on going up
against gangsters:
"If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
that?"
No big whoop. Conquer or die. God will favor the victors.
hanson
> "Alfred Einstead" <whop...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:e58d56ae.04090...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > "Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbr...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > > > Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
> > > > contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon
> > > > Islam can swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
> > > Fight evil by imitating it?
> >
> > Fighting fire with fire.
> >
> > "Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> > > Also, how many of the remaining [500-750 million] Muslims will
> > > be [alive] after you do that [and further similar actions to
> > > follow up and finite the process]?
> >
> > Corrections noted.
> > None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> > start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> > red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> > Very soon. Not the US.
>
> against gangsters:
>
> "If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
> all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
> you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
> knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
> you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
> that?"
>
> No big whoop. Conquer or die. God will favor the victors.
>
[hanson]
ahahaha....AHAHAHA....there are Al's & Al-fred's fantasies....
......and then there is the re-Al world......ahahahaha.......
Thanks for the laughs, guys!
ahahahaha......ahahahahanson
Uncle Al
>
> "Uncle Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
> news:413F4369...@hate.spam.net...
> > "Alfred Einstead" <whop...@csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
> news:e58d56ae.04090...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Bobby D. Bryant" <bdbr...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
> > > > > Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
> > > > > contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon
> > > > > Islam can swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
> > > > Fight evil by imitating it?
> > >
> > Alfred Einstead wrote:
> > > Fighting fire with fire.
> > > "Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
[snip]
> > Alfred Einstead wrote:
[snip]
> [Uncle Al]
> > Very soon, very hard. It is in the Russian national character. It is
[snip]
> > This is no big mystery. In the movie "The Untouchables," Sean Connery
> > playing cop Jimmy Malone instructs a naïve Eliot Ness on going up
> > against gangsters:
> >
> > "If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
> > all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
> > you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
> > knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> > send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
> > you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
> > that?"
> >
> > No big whoop. Conquer or die. God will favor the victors.
> > Uncle Al
> >
> [hanson]
> ahahaha....AHAHAHA....there are Al's & Al-fred's fantasies....
> ......and then there is the re-Al world......ahahahaha.......
> Thanks for the laughs, guys!
> ahahahaha......ahahahahanson
One can readily appreciate the emasculated Liberal alternative.
mitch perkins
1.) We all would like kids to be safe from bullying, but blowing up
the school/neighbourhood is, IMHO, an ill-considered solution.
2.) Russians have, repeatedly and with a certain glee, proven
themselves the craziest motherfuckers on Earth. (Nice literature,
though).
3.) Just so everyone knows: there is no oil to be had from my
property.
Thank you.
Mitch
hanson
> > > > > > Pre-emptive stike is the will of Allah. Airbusts; no ground
> > > > > > contamination. Let's see how much appetite for martyrdon
> > > > > > Islam can swallow. One MIRVed missile with 10 300 kt payloads,
> > > > > Fight evil by imitating it?
> > > >
> > > Alfred Einstead wrote:
> > > > Fighting fire with fire.
> [snip]
>
> > > > "Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > > Alfred Einstead wrote:
> [snip]
>
> > [Uncle Al]
> > > Very soon, very hard. It is in the Russian national character. It is
> [snip]
>
> > >... It is political life or death for Putin. The interested reader
> > > This is no big mystery. In the movie "The Untouchables," Sean Connery
> > > playing cop Jimmy Malone instructs a naïve Eliot Ness on going up
> > > against gangsters:
> > >
> > > "If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
> > > all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
> > > you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
> > > knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> > > send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
> > > you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
> > > that?"
> > >
> > > No big whoop. Conquer or die. God will favor the victors.
> > > Uncle Al
> > >
> > [hanson]
> > ahahaha....AHAHAHA....there are Al's & Al-fred's fantasies....
> > ......and then there is the re-Al world......ahahahaha.......
> > Thanks for the laughs, guys!
> > ahahahaha......ahahahahanson
>
[Al]
> One can readily appreciate the emasculated Liberal alternative.
> Uncle Al
>
[hanson]
ahahahaha......Absolutely! Certainly!, without doubt!, wherein
the operative word for you would be: "readily appreciate",
.....since along the Liberals' routes there has always been
far more wholesale meat grinding and barbequing aux
Adolph, Joseph or Pol......even under Roosevelt & Truman.
.......is that what you are appreciating?
But, don't start with the religious goodie-2-shoe fucks now....
they have the first price when it comes to carnage......ahahaha...
However, tell me, why should there be any rationality on
this issue, level and scale in the first place?
You even calulated the odds once, Al.......ahahahaha......
ahahaha.....ahahahahanson
Edward Green
> In article <2q8a8hF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> "robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Alfred Einstead wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> >> start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> >> red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> >> Very soon. Not the US.
> >
> >Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
> >the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
> >world. Truly a glorious idea.
> >
> >The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
>
> Then how do we deal with the Christian Right? They will burn
> all science books. I don't think erasure will solve the basic
> problem of ideologues with access to WMDs.
Erasure has gotten a bad name recently, but can be effective. How
could it not? It's only failed or partial erasure which backfires.
Totality leaves the third and forth generation the luxury to wring
their hands in peace about how evil their forefathers were (the near
total erradication of the American aborigines before white guilt set
in is a good example).
If Russia and the US simulataneously got into a blind rage against the
same faction, who is to naysay them? ("Naysay" is a good rhetoric
word, which never ever comes up in real speech :-). China will only
make noises (and may have small reason itself to love its Muslim
minority).
> It sure seems like these Muslims' strategy is to completely
> irradicate all of civilization, not just western civilization.
True.
If Al Queda really had a hand in the most recent doings in Russia, it
may have been their fatal act of hubris. Despite the "end of the cold
war", it is still Russia which holds in check a US doing whatever it
wills. Even if they were not involved, they will make convenient
scapegoats.
jmfb...@aol.com
spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
news:<413f0710$0$6930$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> In article <2q8a8hF...@uni-berlin.de>,
>> "robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >Alfred Einstead wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
>> >> start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
>> >> red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
>> >> Very soon. Not the US.
>> >
>> >Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
>> >the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
>> >world. Truly a glorious idea.
>> >
>> >The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
>>
>> Then how do we deal with the Christian Right? They will burn
>> all science books. I don't think erasure will solve the basic
>> problem of ideologues with access to WMDs.
>
>Erasure has gotten a bad name recently, but can be effective. How
>could it not? It's only failed or partial erasure which backfires.
Do you think so? I haven't seen any failed or partial erasures.
I have seen extreme military restraint. It's not the way I'd
do it. Have troubles with a city? Round up a quarter and wipe
them out. More troubles? Do a another quarter. I do not
want to be seen as a kinder, gentler nation. I want to be seen
as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
messes with us.
>Totality leaves the third and forth generation the luxury to wring
>their hands in peace about how evil their forefathers were (the near
>total erradication of the American aborigines before white guilt set
>in is a good example).
I read the autobiography of a trapper last spring; a lot of the
aborigine killing was by other aborigines. So, like slavery,
white guilt is only for those who have a need to be blamed.
>
>If Russia and the US simulataneously got into a blind rage against the
>same faction, who is to naysay them? ("Naysay" is a good rhetoric
>word, which never ever comes up in real speech :-).
I think isolating retaliation to "factions" is not a good tactic.
The conservative imams are smelling blood and lots of future
power within their grasp. In western civilization, this kind
of greed produced mean men who are intent on destroying everything
other people build.
> .. China will only
>make noises (and may have small reason itself to love its Muslim
>minority).
China still has its population controls in place. They do not
wait for a 9/11 to smush non-conformists who intend to destroy
the neighborhood. In some ways, communism is most efficient
in keeping crime and nonsense in its bottle.
>
>> It sure seems like these Muslims' strategy is to completely
>> irradicate all of civilization, not just western civilization.
>
>True.
>
>If Al Queda really had a hand in the most recent doings in Russia, it
>may have been their fatal act of hubris.
You're making the same mistake that I see lots of people make. You're
trying to anthromorphize(sp?) a mindset of a religion that hasn't
kept up with the times. I think this is a fatal assumption to make.
> .. Despite the "end of the cold
>war", it is still Russia which holds in check a US doing whatever it
>wills. Even if they were not involved, they will make convenient
>scapegoats.
Nope. Making an entity that is getting cash-poor and leaderless
as the scapegoat would be a mistake. Someday, somewhere, a politician
will figure out what the real problem is and talk about it. But
I don't expect 95% of the population to understand it.
It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
question now is have they learned their lesson about using
extremists' litany and actions?
mitch perkins
<snip>
>
> This is no big mystery. In the movie "The Untouchables," Sean Connery
> playing cop Jimmy Malone instructs a naīve Eliot Ness on going up
> against gangsters:
>
> "If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
> all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
> you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
> knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
> you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
> that?"
>
With all due respect, and you know I mean that, note the use of the
word "one" in the third sentence above. Not the whole neighbourhood,
Al, only the guilty party, the one at war.
While the general approach, surgically employed, seems sound and
bound for success, who *really* wants to be responsible for the
senseless murder of a bunch of kids, (some no doubt severely gifted),
just because they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?
Thousands of them are not old enough to consider themselves Muslim or
any particular thing for that matter. These are adult concepts and
decisions.
Other routes are harder, more involved, and require sacrifice, but
the willingness to take these routes is what makes free countries so
great. Lots of oppressive countries have a bunch of fire-power, so
fire-power is clearly a flawed indicator of greatness.
Mostly though, unless one thinks the US is actually going to nuke an
entire population, (do you?) it's silly to even discuss the
possibility.
It's depressing to see brilliant scientists, who grasp the
complexity of their own particular area of research, approaching a
problem of such complexity and real world importance with a kind of
gunslinger simple mentality.
That's what I think, anyway.
Mitch
mitch perkins
"A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
- Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
issue 09]
<http://www.history-of-rock.com/atlantic_records.htm>
Do *not* mess with Led Zeppelin. Consider the link above an
introductory reading assignment in your new course, "Reality 101".
Find out just exactly who you are talking about "removing".
Otherwise, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent".
Mitch
Ken Muldrew
>I read the autobiography of a trapper last spring; a lot of the
>aborigine killing was by other aborigines. So, like slavery,
>white guilt is only for those who have a need to be blamed.
Suggest more reading.
>China still has its population controls in place. They do not
>wait for a 9/11 to smush non-conformists who intend to destroy
>the neighborhood. In some ways, communism is most efficient
>in keeping crime and nonsense in its bottle.
Communism? In China? If it's there it's pretty hard to find.
Ken Muldrew
kmul...@ucalgazry.ca
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
BuZZard
> 3.) Just so everyone knows: there is no oil to be had from my
>property.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Mitch
That sucks, because I had a team of oil boys ready to drill there :(
would it be OK if we took a better look anyhow?
Uncle Al
Think what you want. Arabia is still lethally pissed off about the
Crusades. Kill them all and get on with civilization. We have fewer
than 50 years in which to do something awesome. China will have
exercised its material appetites; the Old and New First Worlds will be
paralyzed depopulated geriatric sumps. The Earth will be consumed,
never to rise again.
If we are not doing things very different from what we are doing now,
or if we have not left for new stars, it's over.
hanson
> mitch perkins wrote:
> > Uncle Al <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:<413F4369...@hate.spam.net>...
> > > "If you open the can on these worms....
> > > He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> > >
> mitch perkins wrote:
> > note the use of the word "one" in the third sentence above.
> > Not the whole neighbourhood, Al, only the guilty party, the one at war.
> > of a bunch of kids, (some no doubt severely gifted), [AHAHAHAHA...]
> > Thousands of them are not old enough to consider themselves
> > Muslim or any particular thing for that matter.
> > with a kind of gunslinger simple mentality. That's what I think, anyway.
>
> Think what you want. Arabia is still lethally pissed off about the
> Crusades. Kill them all and get on with civilization. We have fewer
> than 50 years in which to do something awesome. China will have
> exercised its material appetites; the Old and New First Worlds will be
> paralyzed depopulated geriatric sumps. The Earth will be consumed,
> never to rise again.
> If we are not doing things very different from what we are doing now,
> or if we have not left for new stars, it's over.
>
[hanson]
AHAHAHAHAHAHA.......ahahahaha.....yeah, ......ahahaha.....
it may be over for you, Al..........ahahahaha.......but look at
it from the bright side. Your 6 cc sperm donations squirts for
which you got paid & applause may have ended up in nice black,
Jewish girls like Halle Berry, the JAP of your dreams...ahahaha..
So, Al, in a small part it will be your own fault if and when they
take over......Your, loss "fatha" Al......but, the rest of the word
will carry on ..... as usual, a little less white perhaps, but they
will not even notice, nor will they care.........ahahahahaha.......
It would be positively to your advantage if you were to begin
to think globally instead of rabid Jewish, .....it'll give you much
less of the type of anxieties you have expressed above........
but then, you wouldn't be that much fun anymore...AHAHAHA.....
ahahaha....ahahanson
tadchem
If I want to see irrational ad hominem attacks, I'll watch the network
news...
*plonk*
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
hanson
news:JIednZ6hXpR...@comcast.com...
[apparently commenting on my post (as per headers) and bitterly
complaining that.....]
uhhhhhh, but, Tom-Tom, haven't you just done with your
own brilliant logic what you want others NOT to do???...
.....ahahahaha....Now, that you have publicly announced
your noble toilet habits, kindly stand up & look into your
own mirror.......and watch that uptight, humorless and
self-righteous ass with ears that you see in there.......
You don't know what your talking about. Everything in that
post is based on Al's very own, very *funny* postings.
There's a great different between a roast & an attack.
...obviously, what's logical to you is not universal,
......but you apparently believe so........ahahahaha...
ahahaha......ahahahanson
PS: You dimwit and you pitiful old geezer you probably just
terminated a great thread where people really speak their
deeply felt and deeply held emotions. --- Go finish your shit
now and then watch your network news.......ahahahaha...
Edward Green
> In article <eca320d0.0409...@posting.google.com>,
> spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote:
> >jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
> news:<413f0710$0$6930$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
> >> In article <2q8a8hF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> >> "robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Alfred Einstead wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> >> >> start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> >> >> red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> >> >> Very soon. Not the US.
> >> >
> >> >Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
> >> >the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
> >> >world. Truly a glorious idea.
> >> >
> >> >The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
> >>
> >> Then how do we deal with the Christian Right? They will burn
> >> all science books. I don't think erasure will solve the basic
> >> problem of ideologues with access to WMDs.
> >
> >Erasure has gotten a bad name recently, but can be effective. How
> >could it not? It's only failed or partial erasure which backfires.
>
> Do you think so? I haven't seen any failed or partial erasures.
> I have seen extreme military restraint.
I'm not characterizing any current actions as "erasures", failed or
otherwise.
I was thinking of a certain infamous erasure attempt of the mid-20th
century.
You must admit, what ever you think about good and evil, a sucessful
extermination of group X makes further argument mute. Which must be
why repeated attempts of "never again" were made in the latter half of
the twentieth century: to which the world at large, and in the
particular the certified victims of the earlier failed attempt turned
blind eyes, deaf ears, numb touch and dulled taste. The same fifth
column "liberals" who are hyper-sensitive to every real and imagined
moral failing of their own government had scarcely a peep about
African genocides. Hypocritical stupid donkey fuckers.
> It's not the way I'd
> do it. Have troubles with a city? Round up a quarter and wipe
> them out. More troubles? Do a another quarter. I do not
> want to be seen as a kinder, gentler nation. I want to be seen
> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
> messes with us.
Ok ... what are you doing in 2008? I have a job for you. ;-)
<...>
> >If Al Queda really had a hand in the most recent doings in Russia, it
> >may have been their fatal act of hubris.
>
> You're making the same mistake that I see lots of people make. You're
> trying to anthromorphize(sp?) a mindset of a religion that hasn't
> kept up with the times. I think this is a fatal assumption to make.
How can anthropomorphism be a problem when dealing with groups of men?
> > .. Despite the "end of the cold
> >war", it is still Russia which holds in check a US doing whatever it
> >wills. Even if they were not involved, they will make convenient
> >scapegoats.
>
> Nope. Making an entity that is getting cash-poor and leaderless
> as the scapegoat would be a mistake. Someday, somewhere, a politician
> will figure out what the real problem is and talk about it. But
> I don't expect 95% of the population to understand it.
What do you see the real problem as?
> It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
> all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
> question now is have they learned their lesson about using
> extremists' litany and actions?
>
> /BAH
>
> Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Extremism drives out moderation: often by shooting them (which
actually happened during the seige when one of the hostage takers
expressed doubts about seizing a school).
Edward Green
> "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> issue 09]
Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is, but I can be
sure if he exists outside your invention he has already been targetted
by the fanatics.
mitch perkins
>
> It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
> all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
> question now is have they learned their lesson about using
> extremists' litany and actions?
> "...want to be seen
> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
> messes with us."
Do you even read what you yourself wrote?
Note that Chechnya is not called Russia.
Mitch
mitch perkins
> > 3.) Just so everyone knows: there is no oil to be had from my
> >property.
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Mitch
>
> That sucks, because I had a team of oil boys ready to drill there :(
Trick statement - I own no property! :)
>
> would it be OK if we took a better look anyhow?
I'm sure you look just fine. And when I buy some land, you and the
boys'll be the first to know.
Mitch
mitch perkins
> mitch perkins wrote:
> >
> > Uncle Al <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<413F4369...@hate.spam.net>...
> >
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > This is no big mystery. In the movie "The Untouchables," Sean Connery
Mostly do. Also try to leave room for more educated POV's.
> Arabia is still lethally pissed off about the
> Crusades.
Crusades nothing more than the usual tragic hi-jacking of a mostly
lovey-dovey based philosophy by the usual arrogant murderous pricks.
Sound modern day familiar?
Empirical observation indicates most folks around the world
everywhere are more interested in raising their kids and growing their
small engine repair/senior's diaper delivery concern than paying back
some ancient debt.
My own admitedly weak education suggests Arabia was carved up post
WWI by outsiders in just such a way as to promote on-going
socio-political unrest, thereby making it easy to insert corrupt
leaders whose greed was/is served best by preserving the interests of
said outsiders. Has great wealth ever *not* been attained on the backs
of obliging "other people"?
> Kill them all and get on with civilization.
IMHO that sentence is not internally self-consistent. Depends on
what you think of as civilized - exterminating clearly innocent humans
like so many rats 'cause yer scaaared?
> We have fewer
> than 50 years in which to do something awesome.
I agree. There are kids in Canada going to bed hungry every night.
Some sweaty fucker running faster than some other sweaty fuckers in a
small group (not containing the thousands who run faster still but
have no interest in meaningless contests) and winning a shiny round
thing for it will not make me a proud Canadian. (Good thing too, from
what I didn't manage not to hear about it.)
Or how about a renewable safe energy source? Awesome!
> China will have
> exercised its material appetites; the Old and New First Worlds will be
> paralyzed depopulated geriatric sumps. The Earth will be consumed,
> never to rise again.
How do these predictions lead you to scream "Kill all Muslims"?
>
> If we are not doing things very different from what we are doing now,
> or if we have not left for new stars, it's over.
I agree whole-heartedly. So um what does this have to do with -
never mind.
You're clearly a brilliant person. Don't need me to tell you that!
So how come you don't see that the enemy is *always* fear of the
unknown?
Say some dink has a gun to my head, I don't fear *him*, I fear the
death he threatens me with - and why? Simply because I don't know it.
Maybe death is like eating some nice cake, and everyone's there
applauding! If you knew *that*, you wouldn't be afraid - "shoot away,
old dink, shoot away!"
Think about *that*!
Why should you? Because my girlfriend is part Lebanese. It's a good
part, too, and I would like to share enjoyment of this cool and
enlightening ng without clicking on some horrific garbage that makes
her feel like shit.
9/11 broke our hearts. Swinging fists in blind rage is not a
productive response. Let's do something awesome!
Mitch
jmfb...@aol.com
Do you listen to any news reports? Ordinary Russians
were beginning to talk about fighting their little war
and whether it was time to get out. Not any more.
jmfb...@aol.com
The guy mentioned an old rock star. So the quote may even
be from the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and Suliman's
rule. There is no date. I have yet to hear a religious leader
of Islam denounce these mess makers.
mitch perkins
>
> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> > violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> > issue 09]
>
> Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is,
That's because you didn't read the link, but decided to reply
anyway. Silly! It's not hard; you just click on it. Hint: ever heard
of Aretha Franklin? You have Ahmet to thank.
<http://www.history-of-rock.com/atlantic_records.htm>
> but I can be
> sure if he exists outside your invention he has already been targetted
> by the fanatics.
Yup:
"Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most
of
the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem
free
world. Truly a glorious idea.
The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors."
-Bob
Kolker
Better make that "fanatic fuckin' *morons*". Whoopee!
Mitch
BuZZard
wrote:
>BuZZard <krom...@here.com> wrote in message news:<it91k096naib7nonb...@4ax.com>...
>
>> > 3.) Just so everyone knows: there is no oil to be had from my
>> >property.
>> >
>> > Thank you.
>> >
>> > Mitch
>>
>> That sucks, because I had a team of oil boys ready to drill there :(
>
> Trick statement - I own no property! :)
DAMN!
:(
the all knowing BuZZard... shamed. :)
>>
>> would it be OK if we took a better look anyhow?
>
> I'm sure you look just fine. And when I buy some land, you and the
>boys'll be the first to know.
>
> Mitch
YAY!
Thanks for the heads up, I will be expecting to hear from you soon!
mitch perkins
> In article <64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>,
> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> >jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
> news:<414042dd$0$6922$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
> >>
> >> It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
> >> all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
> >> question now is have they learned their lesson about using
> >> extremists' litany and actions?
>
> >> "...want to be seen
> >> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
> >> messes with us."
> > -jmfb...@aol.com
> >
> > Do you even read what you yourself wrote?
> > Note that Chechnya is not called Russia.
>
> Do you listen to any news reports?
From all over the world.
> Ordinary Russians
> were beginning to talk about fighting their little war
> and whether it was time to get out. Not any more.
I understood that part of what you wrote. My point is that the folks
being occupied (messed with) by Russia only "...want to be seen as a
mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody messes with us."
Just like you.
I question why you then wonder if they have "learned their lesson
about using extremists' litany and actions", when these very actions
are the ones you want [?] the US to take. In both cases, little kids
get caught in the crossfire. Just don't seem right.
Sorry if I'm reading you wrong, and also for my aggressive tone with
"Do you even read..." above; I appreciate the opportunity for
exchange. But some of the current thinking here is akin to "kill all
Germans" because of Nazis. All Germans were not Nazis - all muslims
are not terrorists. Lumping a people into "the enemy" is easy. Is that
what we're about?
Mitch
mitch perkins
> In article <eca320d0.0409...@posting.google.com>,
> spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote:
> >mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message
> news:<64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> >> "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> >> violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> >> - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> >> issue 09]
> >
> >Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is, but I can be
> >sure if he exists outside your invention he has already been targetted
> >by the fanatics.
>
> The guy
Mitch.
> mentioned an old rock star.
Ahem. Led Zeppelin is *not* an "old rock star". Read the link:
<http://www.history-of-rock.com/atlantic_records.htm>
> So the quote may even
> be from the breakup of the Ottoman Empire and Suliman's
> rule. There is no date.
[Details, vol.22 issue 09] I don't think this magazine was in
circulation during Suliman's rule. You're just *playing* with me,
aren't ya?
> I have yet to hear a religious leader
> of Islam denounce these mess makers.
First try:
Googled "religious leader of islam denounces terrorism" - 12,800
hits
<http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm>
<http://www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/terrorism3.htm>
<http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=35335>
<http://www.divineislam.co.uk/DivineIslam/Articles/Terrorism/terrorism1.shtml>
<http://c21.maxwell.af.mil/cts-isl.htm>
<http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,272125,00.html?>
Tolerance is work. Are we up to it, or should we just drop some
bombs and cross our fingers?
Mitch
Rafeek
wrote:
> "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
>violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
>issue 09]
From the Qur'an:
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the
places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than
slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship
until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then
slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that
ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them
till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back
(to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and
choose no friend nor helper from among them,
4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security
from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are
returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof
from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and
kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear
warrant.
4:33 The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His
messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they
will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate
sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their
degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful
doom;
4:38 As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It
is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah.
Allah is Mighty, Wise.
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters
wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and
prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship
and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is
Forgiving, Merciful.
This one seems rather relevant:
47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is
smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast
of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down
its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could
have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may
try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way
of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
jmfb...@aol.com
mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
news:<41418abd$0$6926$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> In article <64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>,
>> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>> >jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
>> news:<414042dd$0$6922$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> >>
>> >> It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
>> >> all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
>> >> question now is have they learned their lesson about using
>> >> extremists' litany and actions?
>>
>> >> "...want to be seen
>> >> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
>> >> messes with us."
>> > -jmfb...@aol.com
>> >
>> > Do you even read what you yourself wrote?
>> > Note that Chechnya is not called Russia.
>>
>> Do you listen to any news reports?
>
> From all over the world.
>
>> Ordinary Russians
>> were beginning to talk about fighting their little war
>> and whether it was time to get out. Not any more.
>
> I understood that part of what you wrote.
Ah, okay.
> .. My point is that the folks
>being occupied (messed with) by Russia only "...want to be seen as a
>mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody messes with us."
> Just like you.
It will be the ones with the stiffest backbone who will "win".
I have no intention of ceding to these people. If I cede at
all, it will be to the ants.
> I question why you then wonder if they have "learned their lesson
>about using extremists' litany and actions", when these very actions
>are the ones you want [?] the US to take.
Then you misunderstood what I meant. I am not advocating that
the US take over a school filled with kids and parents and make
impossible demands of another government. These particular
people made a mess of their neighborhood and are now making
messes in other people's neighborhoods for the sole purpose
of destroying all other people's stuff and way of life.
> .. In both cases, little kids
>get caught in the crossfire. Just don't seem right.
The fighting style of the people I'm talking about use kids
as shields. The reason they do this is because it causes
us to hesitate; this hesitation is interpreted by the people
I'm talking about as weakness and softness. This encourages
them to continue to do their destructive behaviour; the
more they destroy, the more bizarre methods they use to
destroy more.
> Sorry if I'm reading you wrong, and also for my aggressive tone with
>"Do you even read..." above; I appreciate the opportunity for
>exchange. But some of the current thinking here is akin to "kill all
>Germans" because of Nazis. All Germans were not Nazis - all muslims
>are not terrorists. Lumping a people into "the enemy" is easy.
How did you read what I write as lumping all Muslims into this
category?
> .. Is that what we're about?
If this conflict becomes a religious war, it will be what we're
about. My point about being feared is to ensure that people,
who think about making messes, just think about them.
The reason Al Queda thought they could get away with destroying
the World Trade Center is because they did not expect an
all-out, kill-all-the-shitheads reaction. They hadn't had
this reaction before; when US property and people were attacked
there wasn't any swift and deadly retribution. If a dog doesn't
get whacked when he's chewing your foot off, he will not stop
eating.
jmfb...@aol.com
Ah. Sorry. I've been embroiled in discussions about this for
nine months now and confused a recent discussion about the
non-existence of restraint.
>
>You must admit, what ever you think about good and evil, a sucessful
>extermination of group X makes further argument mute. Which must be
>why repeated attempts of "never again" were made in the latter half of
>the twentieth century: to which the world at large, and in the
>particular the certified victims of the earlier failed attempt turned
>blind eyes, deaf ears, numb touch and dulled taste. The same fifth
>column "liberals" who are hyper-sensitive to every real and imagined
>moral failing of their own government had scarcely a peep about
>African genocides. Hypocritical stupid donkey fuckers.
There is that. I am <ahem>admiring the irony of those donkeys
complaining about naked inmates and saying not a word about
beheading being the SOP of the inmates' associates. I am getting a
sense that these donkeys really believe that the violence
of these extremists will stop if we obey them. The only
thing that will happen is the violence will be greater.
However, even the most logical people I know do not seem
to realize this fact.
>
>> It's not the way I'd
>> do it. Have troubles with a city? Round up a quarter and wipe
>> them out. More troubles? Do a another quarter. I do not
>> want to be seen as a kinder, gentler nation. I want to be seen
>> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
>> messes with us.
>
>Ok ... what are you doing in 2008? I have a job for you. ;-)
<GRIN> The way things are going..I'll be dead from a terrorist
attack.
>
><...>
>
>> >If Al Queda really had a hand in the most recent doings in Russia, it
>> >may have been their fatal act of hubris.
>>
>> You're making the same mistake that I see lots of people make. You're
>> trying to anthromorphize(sp?) a mindset of a religion that hasn't
>> kept up with the times. I think this is a fatal assumption to make.
>
>How can anthropomorphism be a problem when dealing with groups of men?
Because a large slice of the population will assume that this war
against the terrorists will end if a certain man is caught. Nobody^W
A majority of people haven't grasped the notion that the basis
of this conflict is which lifestyle the world will have.
>
>> > .. Despite the "end of the cold
>> >war", it is still Russia which holds in check a US doing whatever it
>> >wills. Even if they were not involved, they will make convenient
>> >scapegoats.
>>
>> Nope. Making an entity that is getting cash-poor and leaderless
>> as the scapegoat would be a mistake. Someday, somewhere, a politician
>> will figure out what the real problem is and talk about it. But
>> I don't expect 95% of the population to understand it.
>
>What do you see the real problem as?
Heh. Every answer I wrote would have described a solution
rather than a cause. The closest I can say is boredom
coupled with an inability to recognize reality. And this
is true for both sides.
>
>> It is certainly true that the Chechnians(sp?) have completely lost
>> all sympathy from the Russian population; they were gaining. The
>> question now is have they learned their lesson about using
>> extremists' litany and actions?
>Extremism drives out moderation: often by shooting them (which
>actually happened during the seige when one of the hostage takers
>expressed doubts about seizing a school).
It was reported here that hostage taker questioned the action
only _after_ they rounded up those kids. They had been stockpiling
armaments in the school for months. WTF did they think was going
to be the target--geese?
Perhaps the good thing that will come out of this particular mess
is that Russia will stop dragging its UN feet w.r.t. Iran's
nuclear bomb developement.
jmfb...@aol.com
mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote in message
news:<eca320d0.0409...@posting.google.com>...
>> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message
news:<64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>...
>>
>> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
>> > violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
>> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
>> > issue 09]
>>
>> Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is,
>
> That's because you didn't read the link,
I can't access the web without fucking up the FAT.
> ... but decided to reply
>anyway. Silly! It's not hard; you just click on it. Hint: ever heard
>of Aretha Franklin?
Another old rock star.
> ..You have Ahmet to thank.
So he changed his name?
<snip>
robert egri
> On 9 Sep 2004 09:26:08 -0700, mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins)
> wrote:
>
> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> >violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> >issue 09]
>
> From the Qur'an:
>
> 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the
> places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than
> slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship
> until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then
> slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
> This one seems rather relevant:
>
> 47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is
> smiting of the necks ....
None of this is relevant unless you assume that God has anything to do
with the Koran. If you do not make that assumption then the above
quoations do not contradict Ahmet Ertegun just shows the book's
irrelevancy.
mitch perkins
> wrote:
>
> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> >violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> >issue 09]
>
> From the Qur'an:
<snip powerful counter-point excerpts, see previous post>
Hi Rafeek
Well...your excerpts from the Qur'an would seem, on the surface, to
make mince-meat of old Ahmet's statement!
Others take note: this is when it *most* behooves me to reply, and
not just disappear from the thread as though, "I wasn't really
interested in what you had to say in the first place"; I involved
myself in the discussion - I will see it through. Not to "win" or save
face, but to become more well-balanced in my views through the
exchange of ideas and information.
Now to your point, which I assume is that the "teachings of god" are
choc-filled with plenty of violence and killing.
First off, I posted the Ertegun quote in response to this:
"It sure seems like these Muslims' strategy is to completely
irradicate (sic) all of civilization, not just western civilization."
in order to show that a high-profile Muslim who does not support
terrorism is responsible for a monumental contribution to civilization
via recognition and subsequent dissemination of righteous tunes.
I suppose it's possible that old Ahmet is the *only Muslim alive*
who *doesn't* want to eradicate "all of civilization", but the
hypothesis is highly speculative, given even cursory empirical
observation, and the burden of it's proof falls on the shoulders of
those who propose it. Y'know, *before* they begin the wholesale
slaughter?
Second: What Ahmet specifically means by "the teachings of God" (his
capital 'g'), remains unclear. Note he did not directly refer to the
Qur'an, though I can't blame you for going there. Maybe it's just
wishful thinking on Ahmet's part.
Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing the bits of
their particular bible which support whatever views they happen to be
currently holding. One could support two completely opposite ends of
most any given debate with references to a/the bible.
Third: IMO, it is not rational to point out a bunch of (clearly
extant) violent, twisted garbage in the Bible/Torah with the purpose
of promoting widespread murder of Christians or Jews. Those who do so
wrt Muslims and not Christians or Jews are engaging in "special
pleading",
<http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/special-pleading.html>
and have no concept of the far-reaching usefulness of the scientific
method, no matter how many equations they have learned.
That's what I currently think.
Mitch
Rafeek
wrote:
I haven't advocated any such slaughter. I felt compelled to reply to
your post, since the little investigation I've done into the Qur'an
has revealed to me how much violence it encourages.
> Second: What Ahmet specifically means by "the teachings of God" (his
>capital 'g'), remains unclear.
I'm not sure what other source exists in Islam for "the teachings of
God"... I'll plead ignorance on this one.
>Note he did not directly refer to the
>Qur'an, though I can't blame you for going there. Maybe it's just
>wishful thinking on Ahmet's part.
> Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing the bits of
>their particular bible which support whatever views they happen to be
>currently holding. One could support two completely opposite ends of
>most any given debate with references to a/the bible.
>
> Third: IMO, it is not rational to point out a bunch of (clearly
>extant) violent, twisted garbage in the Bible/Torah with the purpose
>of promoting widespread murder of Christians or Jews. Those who do so
>wrt Muslims and not Christians or Jews are engaging in "special
>pleading",
>
> <http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/special-pleading.html>
I'm not religious, and don't defend the bible or any other religious
text. I personally think it's silly to believe in flying invisible
men who magically do this-and-that and create the universe and stuff
like that. IOW, I haven't committed this fallacy. Cool link to
fallacies, though!! I've been looking for something like this.
> and have no concept of the far-reaching usefulness of the scientific
>method, no matter how many equations they have learned.
??
Rafeek
wrote:
It is my understanding that Islam is inextricably linked to the
Qur'an, and that Muslims believe it to be the teachings of God via
Mohammed. But I could be wrong.
mitch perkins
> In article <64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
> >spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote in message
> news:<eca320d0.0409...@posting.google.com>...
> >> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message
> news:<64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>...
> >>
> >> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
> >> > violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
> >> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
> >> > issue 09]
> >>
> >> Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is,
> >
> > That's because you didn't read the link,
>
> I can't access the web without fucking up the FAT.
What's the FAT?
Here's some of the link, maybe too much! There's no physics. :(
"Ahmet Ertegun was born in Turkey. He and his family came to the
United States when his father Munir was appointed ambassador. In 1936
it was decreed that every Turkish citizen was to choose a surname.
Prior to that people had simply been know as "Son of James," "Son of
Richard". Ahmet's father Munir choose the surname Ertegun which means
"living in a hopeful future." His mother Hayrunisa Rustem was very
musical and a terrific dancer. With a beautiful voice she played every
instrument by ear. There was a lot of music in the Ertegun household
with Hayrunsia buying the popular music of the day. Ahmet's older
brother Nesuhi introduced to many different artists and by age of five
Ahmet had fallen in love with jazz. At night they would sneak records
into their rooms and fall asleep listening to them.
At the age of fourteen Ahmet's mother brought him a record-cutting
machine. Taking a Cootie Williams instrumental "West End Blues" he
wrote lyrics to it. With the instrumental playing on a record player
Ahmet turned recording machine and sang the lyrics into the microphone
as the record played.
Ahmet and Nesuhi liked to go looking for old records by the great
bands. Two of the record shops they frequented were the Hot Record
Shop and Commodore Music Store. The later was owned by Milt Gabler who
would later become A&R head of Decca Records.
As the brothers became friends with Duke Ellington, Lena Horne and
Jelly Roll Morton the decided to put on the first integrated concert
in Washington D.C. Having trouble finding a venue where they could
hold the event they held at the Jewish Community Center, which was the
only place that would allow a mixed audience and mixed band. Later
they would be allowed to use the National Press Club's auditorium.
Around 1943 Nesuhi met and married Marili Morden who owned a
spcialty record store in California called the Jazzman Record Shop.
Nesuhi spent an increasing amount of time on the West Coast
discovering and promoting the music they both loved.
In 1944 Munir Ertrgun died and was buried in Arlington National
Cemetery. After the end of the war the body was taken back to Turkey
for burial. Soon after the family returned to Turkey, Ahmet and Nesuhi
rather then returning to Turkey to finish their studies elected to
stay in the United States. Ahmet went out and rented a small apartment
with his small allowance. Offered various jobs by family friends Ahmet
turned them down. Instead he decided that he would get into the record
business. This was to just be a temporary thing to help put him
through college after which he would return to Turkey.
While going to graduate school Ahmet discovered Quality Radio
Repair Shop which besides selling new and used radios and repairing
them sold records for 10 cents or three for a quarter. The store was
owned by a man named Max Silverman. Eventually Max would phase out
the radio repair business and concentrated on the record end. The name
of the shop was changed Waxie Maxie. Soon Silverman got out of used
end into the new record business. He as began a radio program where
independent record owners came to get their records played. Ahmet
became friends with him and it was here that he learned the record
business. Understanding what people were buying and why.
In 1946 Ahmet became friends with Herb Abramson, a dental student
and A&R man for National Records. Deciding to start a label together
they talked Max Silverstein into backing them. There was to be two
labels Jubilee for Gospel and Quality for jazz and R&B.
After recording a couple records that didn't sell Silverman wanted
out. Keeping the Jubilee label open Abramson later sold it to Jerry
Blaine in order to raise $2500 to start the company. Unable to
convince any of his father's friends to invest Ahmet turned to Dr.
Vahdi Sabit the family dentist. Sabit then put up $10000 by mortgaging
his house.
The name Atlantic wasn't the first choice for the company. It seems
every name they came up with had already been taken. Hearing of a
label called Pacific Jazz they decided to call themselves Atlantic.
Atlantic Records was founded in September1947 in New York City and
they incorporated in October 1947.
Atlantic's first office was in the condemned Jefferson Hotel on
Fifty-Six between Sixth and Broadway. Sleeping in the bedroom the
living room was used as a office. In order to help with the rent Ahmet
rented a bed to his cousin Sadi Koylan a poet. With an upcoming
recording strike declared by Caesar Petrillo to commence January 1,
1948 they began recording as much material as possible. The first
sides were recorded November 21, 1947 by the Harlemaires with "The
Rose of the Rio Grande." By the end of December a total of sixty-five
songs had been recorded.
In 1949 Ahmet and Stone began travelling through the South trying to
understand why there well-made, up-to-date records weren't selling.
Watching the crowds night after night in the dance clubs they saw the
people especially the young ones dancing in a new way and they
couldn't dance to the classy, urbane Atlantic beat. Stone to an
instrumental version of "Sorghum Switch" re-named it "Coleslaw," added
a special bassline; he put country blues into city sound and it
clicked. In April Atlantic had its first major hit with Stick McGhee's
"Drinkin' Wine Sop-Dee-O-Dee.
In 1953 Jerry Wexler joined Atlantic as a partner paying $2063.25
for a 13% share. Later he and Ahmet would buyout Miriam Beinstock and
Dr. Sabit. Nesuhi Ertegun would join as a third partner.
In 1954 Atlantic was besieged with covers and that summer seven
songs including "Sh-Boom", "Honey Love" and "Such A Night" by the
Drifters were covered by 18 different artists.
They began the Cat label in 1954 and Atlas Records in July 1955.
Atlas became Atco because there was already another Atlas label. Spark
Records and it's catalog was acquired later in 1955. Lester Sill
became the national sales manager and Leiber and Stoller were given an
independent production deal. They also got The Robins who would later
become the Coasters
In 1955 Atlantic offered Colonel Tom Parker $25,000 for Elvis
Presley's contract but lost out on it to RCA.
Nesuhi Ertegun joined Atlantic in 1956, initially developed
Atlantic's album department and built up the label's extensive catalog
of jazz long-players. Netsuhi produced the following jazz artists at
Atlantic: John Coltrane, Charles Mingus, Ornette Coleman, the Modern
Jazz Quartet. Later he would become became involved with the label's
rhythm & blues and rock and roll roster as well, producing several hit
records for Ray Charles, the Drifters, Bobby Darin and Roberta Flack.
In the '60s, Wexler became the primary producer who linked Aretha
Franklin and Wilson Pickett with house bands in Memphis and Muscle
Shoals, Ala., to help bring Southern soul to the rest of America.
In the '70s, he continued to produce rock acts, such as Dr. John and
Dire Straits.
Though he was less directly involved as a producer, Ertegun
continued at the helm of Atlantic in the Sixties and Seventies as the
company conquered the realms of soul and rock, from Aretha Franklin to
Led Zeppelin, with phenomenal success. Ertegun serves as chairman of
Atlantic Records to this day. At the tenth annual Rock and Roll Hall
of Fame Induction Dinner in 1995, it was announced that the museum's
main exhibition hall would be named after Ertegun.
JerryWexler was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 1987
Amhet Ertegun was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 1987
Nesuhi Ertegun was inducted into The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 1991"
> >ever heard
> >of Aretha Franklin?
>
> Another old rock star.
Rhythm & Blues.
>
> > ..You have Ahmet to thank.
>
> So he changed his name?
"The guy" who you said "mentioned an old rock star" was me, Mitch.
Ahmet brought you Aretha Franklin.
Sorry if you were joking, but thought I'd clear it up.
> /BAH
The "/BAH" is very cool.
Mitch
mitch perkins
> > First off, I posted the Ertegun quote in response to this:
> >
> > "It sure seems like these Muslims' strategy is to completely
> >irradicate (sic) all of civilization, not just western civilization."
> >
> > in order to show that a high-profile Muslim who does not support
> >terrorism is responsible for a monumental contribution to civilization
> >via recognition and subsequent dissemination of righteous tunes.
> > I suppose it's possible that old Ahmet is the *only Muslim alive*
> >who *doesn't* want to eradicate "all of civilization", but the
> >hypothesis is highly speculative, given even cursory empirical
> >observation, and the burden of it's proof falls on the shoulders of
> >those who propose it. Y'know, *before* they begin the wholesale
> >slaughter?
>
> I haven't advocated any such slaughter.
No, no you haven't.
> I felt compelled to reply to
> your post, since the little investigation I've done into the Qur'an
> has revealed to me how much violence it encourages.
Sure. Did you find any balancing encouragement of peace?
> > Second: What Ahmet specifically means by "the teachings of God" (his
> >capital 'g'), remains unclear.
>
> I'm not sure what other source exists in Islam for "the teachings of
> God"... I'll plead ignorance on this one.
Me neither...me too.
>
> >Note he did not directly refer to the
> >Qur'an, though I can't blame you for going there. Maybe it's just
> >wishful thinking on Ahmet's part.
> > Religious people are notorious for picking and choosing the bits of
> >their particular bible which support whatever views they happen to be
> >currently holding. One could support two completely opposite ends of
> >most any given debate with references to a/the bible.
> >
> > Third: IMO, it is not rational to point out a bunch of (clearly
> >extant) violent, twisted garbage in the Bible/Torah with the purpose
> >of promoting widespread murder of Christians or Jews. Those who do so
> >wrt Muslims and not Christians or Jews are engaging in "special
> >pleading",
> >
> > <http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/special-pleading.html>
>
> I'm not religious, and don't defend the bible or any other religious
> text.
Same here.
> I personally think it's silly to believe in flying invisible
> men who magically do this-and-that and create the universe and stuff
> like that.
Now hold on there, mister! Don't be dissin' my flying invisible men!
IOW, ROTFL!
> IOW, I haven't committed this fallacy.
No, no you haven't. I regarded your follow-up as an exceedingly
relevant counter-point and it made me think.
> Cool link to
> fallacies, though!! I've been looking for something like this.
I first learned about special pleading on this excellent ng
(sci.physics).
>
> > and have no concept of the far-reaching usefulness of the scientific
> >method, no matter how many equations they have learned.
>
> ??
Some apply the scientific method only to their lab experiments, but
spew without anything resembling all the facts when it comes to the
human condition. Simple fear and knee-jerk reactionism. Dehumanization
of the so-called "enemy". We did it to Germans during WWI. I suppose
it gets the job done in a nations-at-war type scenario, but I find
truth a more engaging pursuit.
I can't post about this stuff here (sci.physics) anymore. Made a
promise. If you feel like responding, mayhap you could set the
follow-ups to the appropriate ng. Don't know what that is, but I don't
think *any* of the currently cross-posted to ng's qualify.
See ya,
Mitch
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>Rafeek <sp...@spam.com> wrote in message news:<0rb5k0p7bgfdsvs4k...@4ax.com>...
>> On 9 Sep 2004 09:26:08 -0700, mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins)
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
>> >violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
>> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details, vol.22,
>> >issue 09]
>>
>> From the Qur'an:
>>
>> 2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the
>> places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than
>> slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship
>> until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then
>> slay them. Such is the reward of disbelievers.
>> This one seems rather relevant:
>>
>> 47:4 Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is
>
>
>None of this is relevant unless you assume that God has anything to do
>with the Koran.
Nah, you got this wrong. The question is not where you assume it but
whether those you're facing believe it.
And, yes, it is a basic tenet of Islam that the Quaran is the literal
word of God.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
jmfb...@aol.com
mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
news:<4142f319$0$6926$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> In article <64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com>,
>> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>> >spamsp...@netzero.com (Edward Green) wrote in message
>> news:<eca320d0.0409...@posting.google.com>...
>> >> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message
>> news:<64dddc3d.04090...@posting.google.com>...
>> >>
>> >> > "A proper Muslim who understands the faith knows that all this
>> >> > violence and killing is totally against the teachings of God"
>> >> > - Ahmet Ertegun [Details,
vol.22,
>> >> > issue 09]
>> >>
>> >> Well, I don't know who this "Ahmet Ertegun" character is,
>> >
>> > That's because you didn't read the link,
>>
>> I can't access the web without fucking up the FAT.
>
> What's the FAT?
File Access Table. It's supposedly how DOS finds bit collections
we used to call files.
<snip bio>
> Sorry if you were joking, but thought I'd clear it up.
Thanks.
>
>> /BAH
>
> The "/BAH" is very cool.
When we did major development or wrote patches to a source,
the convention was to append /xxx on the SUBTTL line to
document who messed with the source last. The person
who originally wrote the module would put his/her full
name at the beginning of the SUBTTL line. It eventually
became a badge of honor, prestige, and status to have
one's initials in our sources. We were even verbally
called our initials; when I mention TW, I say tee-double-ya.
When I mention JMF, I say jay-em-eff. My official initial
set had a vowel, so I was called bah ...among other things :-).
Mike
> Alfred Einstead wrote:
>
> >
> > None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> > start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> > red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> > Very soon. Not the US.
>
> Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
> the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
> world. Truly a glorious idea.
>
> The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
>
Besides being incompetent phycists or whatever that can be called,
certainly not doing physics of any value here, some of you are also
pathetic pigots. If you had a chicken's worth of a brain you would
figure it out. It's not the Moslems who are a danger to the World.
It's people that think like you do, whether they are Moslems, Jews,
Christians or Budist.
Poisson distribution of world wealth is a law of nature, the same way
gravitational potential is, but this is the heart of all evil. The
challenge is to mitigate social unjustice perpetuated by those who
take advantage of this unfortunate fact of our reality. This amongst
other things entails transforming the Poisson distribution to a more
uniform like. This is the ultimate strategy to eliminate terror.
Because the ultimate cause of terror is social unjustice. Which by the
way you suggest to eliminate by eliminating the subject of unjustice.
Yoy pitty little thing.
Mike
mitch perkins
The ants, eh? ~:?)
Do you think any of the below could be applicable to the situation
in question? (Remembering the FAT, I post no link, but maybe you can
Google these, if interested)
"Equilibrium points in N-Person Games", 1950, Proceedings of NAS.
"The Bargaining Problem", 1950, Econometrica.
"A Simple Three-Person Poker Game", with L.S. Shapley, 1950, Annals of
Mathematical Statistics.
"Non-Cooperative Games", 1951, Annals of Mathematics.
"Two-Person Cooperative Games", 1953, Econometrica.
Not suggesting bargaining with terrorists, however it is illogical
to assume that they just suddenly became "jealous", and orchestrated
9/11.
Uncle Al says Arabia is pissed at crusades, but I have *always*
felt, growing up, that our (NA) great wealth was built unfairly on the
backs of someone.
Thus it ever was.
I would be willing to take an extreme cut in standard of living in
the name of peace and global equity. It's a world view issue, isn't
it?
Thus must it ever be?
> > I question why you then wonder if they have "learned their lesson
> >about using extremists' litany and actions", when these very actions
> >are the ones you want [?] the US to take.
>
> Then you misunderstood what I meant. I am not advocating that
> the US take over a school filled with kids and parents and make
> impossible demands of another government. These particular
> people made a mess of their neighborhood and are now making
> messes in other people's neighborhoods for the sole purpose
> of destroying all other people's stuff and way of life.
I think they want Russia to get the hell out of Chechnya. I could be
wrong, and certainly don't support the methods used. Like it says in
"The Grapes Of Wrath", if you're dealing with people who have nothing
to lose, you might be in big trouble. And the nagging question; why
have they nothing to lose? Whole nations are not "lazy"; things have
been taken from them. IMHO, *that's* what pisses people off and drives
them to insane, seemingly nihilistic acts.
Remember, these adults grew up dealing with intruders in their home;
who knows what they had to witness/endure? After a while, you just
wouldn't *give* a fuck. Tit for tat, ad infinitum/nauseum.
Do you think I'm just a liberal hippy? ~;?)
>
> > .. In both cases, little kids
> >get caught in the crossfire. Just don't seem right.
>
> The fighting style of the people I'm talking about use kids
> as shields. The reason they do this is because it causes
> us to hesitate; this hesitation is interpreted by the people
> I'm talking about as weakness and softness. This encourages
> them to continue to do their destructive behaviour; the
> more they destroy, the more bizarre methods they use to
> destroy more.
See above. Tit for tat, though I don't pretend to know all the
facts. But Russia? C'mon - I bet they've been whacking those
Chechnyans *real good* for some time now!
>
> > Sorry if I'm reading you wrong, and also for my aggressive tone with
> >"Do you even read..." above; I appreciate the opportunity for
> >exchange. But some of the current thinking here is akin to "kill all
> >Germans" because of Nazis. All Germans were not Nazis - all muslims
> >are not terrorists. Lumping a people into "the enemy" is easy.
>
> How did you read what I write as lumping all Muslims into this
> category?
Not you - [people here] = [kolkhead], mostly. But he's waaay far
gone from reason.
>
> > .. Is that what we're about?
>
> If this conflict becomes a religious war, it will be what we're
> about.
Okay, but people are taking this "kill the unbelievers" stuff from
the Koran and IMHO, mistaking it for the real, economic issue. Read -
oil, oil, OIL.
I love American V-8's more than anyone really should, but internal
combustion's days are numbered?
Or else burn something else, or channel some of the oil wealth where
it rightfully belongs.
Liberal hippy if you like, but I believe the Arab leaders who are
rich in the midst of national poverty are there because of our (NA)
leaders' hubris and greed, and our ( regular folks') complacency.
> My point about being feared is to ensure that people,
> who think about making messes, just think about them.
Good point, but must be directed at the proper target, or
else...bigger mess!
>
> The reason Al Queda thought they could get away with destroying
> the World Trade Center is because they did not expect an
> all-out, kill-all-the-shitheads reaction. They hadn't had
> this reaction before; when US property and people were attacked
> there wasn't any swift and deadly retribution.
What pissed me off was that they *succeeded* in hitting *both
buildings* and knocking them down! Gawd, that burned my ass! A total
heartbreaker!
When the smoke and dust settled though, I felt there must be a
complex issue behind it all.
Actually, this ng has been instrumental in showing me that almost
*nothing* is simple. Think of how much is not known about a fork lying
on a table! We have theories about the boundaries and fundamental
make-up of fork and table, but "knowing"?
And we call it banal. Banality in an un-explained universe, now
there's a paradox!
> If a dog doesn't
> get whacked when he's chewing your foot off, he will not stop
> eating.
Thank you! I whacked that dog and still retain my big toe and part
of my heel. ~%?b
Mitch
Wally Anglesea
"mitch perkins" <mitchs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com...
My only comment on that is that if the rich princes and kings of the oil
producing nations shared their wealth with their fellow countrymen (instead
of building opulent palaces and malls where the average citizen can't even
go), even by funding better and free schools, hospitals, medicines and jobs
for their citizens, then those countries would be less likely to sizzle with
discontent.
Heck, the Koran is supposed to encourage the sharing of wealth.
<SNIP>
jmfb...@aol.com
In article <64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com>,
They didn't suddenly become jealous. Their intention is to destroy
the world's current lifestyle. They use a religion to recruit
people and justify their actions to these people. They also
have figured out that, if the west perceives that it's a religious
issue, then lots of leeway will be given to very bad behaviour.
There exist people who have to destroy others' work, especially
if this work is productive.
> Uncle Al says Arabia is pissed at crusades, but I have *always*
>felt, growing up, that our (NA) great wealth was built unfairly on the
>backs of someone.
This is nuts. Those backs benefited and were motivated by the
fruits of that work. The most productive people are not slaves.
If you want study human motivation, compare farms that are
based on a cooperative and farms that are owned by the people
who do the work. In the former case, people will earn their
keep 8:00-17:00 or whatever the shift is. In the latter case,
the owners will work all kinds of hours to produce something.
This is because they get to keep all the fruits of their labors.
> Thus it ever was.
> I would be willing to take an extreme cut in standard of living in
>the name of peace and global equity.
But that is exactly what the terrorists want you to do; they want
to change the global economies and political structures into
a slave-based life-style.
> ..It's a world view issue, isn't
>it?
> Thus must it ever be?
>
>> > I question why you then wonder if they have "learned their lesson
>> >about using extremists' litany and actions", when these very actions
>> >are the ones you want [?] the US to take.
>>
>> Then you misunderstood what I meant. I am not advocating that
>> the US take over a school filled with kids and parents and make
>> impossible demands of another government. These particular
>> people made a mess of their neighborhood and are now making
>> messes in other people's neighborhoods for the sole purpose
>> of destroying all other people's stuff and way of life.
>
> I think they want Russia to get the hell out of Chechnya. I could be
>wrong, and certainly don't support the methods used. Like it says in
>"The Grapes Of Wrath", if you're dealing with people who have nothing
>to lose, you might be in big trouble. And the nagging question; why
>have they nothing to lose? Whole nations are not "lazy"; things have
>been taken from them. IMHO, *that's* what pisses people off and drives
>them to insane, seemingly nihilistic acts.
When I look at people who foment complete destruction of current
conditions, I see spoiled brats who have never had to work and
have never learned the high one can get from making something.
From what I understand, the conflict between Russia and Chechnya
have been on-going for hundreds of years. In this case, one
might be able to make the assumption that fighting between the
two is habit.
> Remember, these adults grew up dealing with intruders in their home;
>who knows what they had to witness/endure? After a while, you just
>wouldn't *give* a fuck. Tit for tat, ad infinitum/nauseum.
You might try to read a lot more about the area and its history for
the last 1000 years. See if a pattern exists. It has become more
of a global issue because it seems (not confirmed) that the Islamic
militants are pushing their noses into that business.
> Do you think I'm just a liberal hippy? ~;?)
Definitely not a hippy. I think you have been listening to
too many of today's so-called Liberals without a bullshit
filter turned on.
>>
>> > .. In both cases, little kids
>> >get caught in the crossfire. Just don't seem right.
>>
>> The fighting style of the people I'm talking about use kids
>> as shields. The reason they do this is because it causes
>> us to hesitate; this hesitation is interpreted by the people
>> I'm talking about as weakness and softness. This encourages
>> them to continue to do their destructive behaviour; the
>> more they destroy, the more bizarre methods they use to
>> destroy more.
>
> See above. Tit for tat, though I don't pretend to know all the
>facts.
It is not tit for tat. Where/when did we use kids as shields?
You won't find any because it wouldn't have stopped anybody from
shooting. It doesn't stop these militants.
> ..But Russia? C'mon - I bet they've been whacking those
>Chechnyans *real good* for some time now!
I think, but am not sure, this has been a tribal conflict since
Genghis Kahn.
>>
>> > Sorry if I'm reading you wrong, and also for my aggressive tone with
>> >"Do you even read..." above; I appreciate the opportunity for
>> >exchange. But some of the current thinking here is akin to "kill all
>> >Germans" because of Nazis. All Germans were not Nazis - all muslims
>> >are not terrorists. Lumping a people into "the enemy" is easy.
>>
>> How did you read what I write as lumping all Muslims into this
>> category?
>
> Not you - [people here] = [kolkhead], mostly. But he's waaay far
>gone from reason.
He has no patience. His style is if he's got an invasion of ants,
he'll kill all ants on the property.
>>
>> > .. Is that what we're about?
>>
>> If this conflict becomes a religious war, it will be what we're
>> about.
>
> Okay, but people are taking this "kill the unbelievers" stuff from
>the Koran and IMHO, mistaking it for the real, economic issue. Read -
>oil, oil, OIL.
Now do the arithmetic. Set the price of oil at $50/bbl. Mulitply
by the number of barrels in the ground. If these are really
the mean rich business people you are talking about, then they're
spending a hell of lot more money on oil than if they just bought it
outright.
> I love American V-8's more than anyone really should, but internal
>combustion's days are numbered?
> Or else burn something else, or channel some of the oil wealth where
>it rightfully belongs.
None of these actions will stop those militants from trying to
destroy western civilization.
> Liberal hippy if you like, but I believe the Arab leaders who are
>rich in the midst of national poverty are there because of our (NA)
>leaders' hubris and greed, and our ( regular folks') complacency.
If you think that the oil biz is just simply all about greed, then
dump your computers, vehicles and clothes, start growing and
preserving _ALL_ of your own food, and I guess you'ld also better
build a kiln. Then you might be starting to become a hippy and
completely independent of others' production.
>
>> My point about being feared is to ensure that people,
>> who think about making messes, just think about them.
>
> Good point, but must be directed at the proper target, or
>else...bigger mess!
It is directed at proper targets. I sure as hell am not
advocating blowing Russia up to prevent another World
Trade Center mess.
>>
>> The reason Al Queda thought they could get away with destroying
>> the World Trade Center is because they did not expect an
>> all-out, kill-all-the-shitheads reaction. They hadn't had
>> this reaction before; when US property and people were attacked
>> there wasn't any swift and deadly retribution.
>
> What pissed me off was that they *succeeded* in hitting *both
>buildings* and knocking them down!
Bin Laden didn't expect the towers to collapse.
> ..Gawd, that burned my ass! A total
>heartbreaker!
> When the smoke and dust settled though, I felt there must be a
>complex issue behind it all.
It is complex in that there is no one action that one person
can take to make it all better. The complexity has to do with
the Ottoman breakup leftovers. This problem has been around
since waybackwhen. I read history book published in ~1910 where
the author laments Western goverments ignoring this problem.
We can't ignore it anymore.
> Actually, this ng has been instrumental in showing me that almost
>*nothing* is simple. Think of how much is not known about a fork lying
>on a table! We have theories about the boundaries and fundamental
>make-up of fork and table, but "knowing"?
Heh. You don't even know how much combined work was done to
make that fork go from ore to your table. Note that you also
have to include all shipping (there's that oil again) of all
materials, including the food that the miners ate to the
septic services of the clerk who stocked the fork in the store.
<snip>
jmfb...@aol.com
Sigh! This will not appease Al Queda leaders. They _are_ members
of that rich clique. I have been reading about revolts, revolutions,
etc. It seems like the ones who were done for the sake of the
"poor" were lead by rich dudes who had a score to settle with
their government. The side effects were very big messes that
keep growing.
When there are revolutions based on "greed" (I'm thinking of
the American revolution), a bit of shit happens, and then
people get back to work making stuff.
Charles J. Quarra
> >> >
> >> >Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
> >> >the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
> >> >world. Truly a glorious idea.
> >> >
> >> >The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
> Do you think so? I haven't seen any failed or partial erasures.
> I have seen extreme military restraint. It's not the way I'd
> do it. Have troubles with a city? Round up a quarter and wipe
> them out. More troubles? Do a another quarter. I do not
> want to be seen as a kinder, gentler nation. I want to be seen
> as a mean sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody
> messes with us.
>
Well, i had my doubts, but now that i see that the concept of "nazi
white trash" isnt just a buzzword, i'm starting to have deep
sympathies by Osama's philosophy
I really hope that AlQuaeda can get together the white plestilence
that thinks like you in one place and wipe it out of the world in a
big, red nuclear blast. The sooner we expunge that pestilence the
better for the survivors. Maybe we can later recycle the carbon
molecules to make some soap
mitch perkins
> In article <ekd1d.29182$D7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> "Wally Anglesea" <wang...@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote:
> >
> >My only comment on that is that if the rich princes and kings of the oil
> >producing nations shared their wealth with their fellow countrymen
> (instead
> >of building opulent palaces and malls where the average citizen can't even
> >go), even by funding better and free schools, hospitals, medicines and
> jobs
> >for their citizens, then those countries would be less likely to sizzle
> with
> >discontent.
> >Heck, the Koran is supposed to encourage the sharing of wealth.
>
> Sigh! This will not appease Al Queda leaders. They _are_ members
> of that rich clique.
Yes, but the people, given the opportunity to engage in productive
activity, are less likely to listen to fanatics; respect for private
property comes from having some. Given a choice, it seems folks would
rather get an education and go to work, have a family, than blow
themselves or others up.
We (NA) would have to say, "not buying another ounce of oil until
you have human rights and decent standard of living." Okay, that's
totally impossible, but something like it?
I have been reading about revolts, revolutions,
> etc. It seems like the ones who were done for the sake of the
> "poor" were lead by rich dudes who had a score to settle with
> their government. The side effects were very big messes that
> keep growing.
Russian revolution was a real heartbreaker; supposed to help the
average Joe, instead, old Stalin murdered some what, 30-40 million of
them (not including the war, during which POWs who escaped and made it
back home were shot! "You were in the hands of the enemy; you must be
a spy." Soltzenystin's "Gulag Archipelago" will make you weep!
>
> When there are revolutions based on "greed" (I'm thinking of
> the American revolution), a bit of shit happens, and then
> people get back to work making stuff.
Never thought of American revolution as being greed-based.
Interesting. Been a long time since history class.
Mitch
Ilya Chernyh
You wrote on 13 Sep 2004 09:02:55 -0700:
mp> Yes, but the people, given the opportunity to engage in productive
mp> activity, are less likely to listen to fanatics; respect for private
mp> property comes from having some. Given a choice, it seems folks would
mp> rather get an education and go to work, have a family, than blow
mp> themselves or others up.
mp> We (NA) would have to say, "not buying another ounce of oil until
mp> you have human rights and decent standard of living." Okay, that's
mp> totally impossible, but something like it?
mp> I have been reading about revolts, revolutions,
??>> etc. It seems like the ones who were done for the sake of the
??>> "poor" were lead by rich dudes who had a score to settle with
??>> their government. The side effects were very big messes that
??>> keep growing.
mp> Russian revolution was a real heartbreaker; supposed to help the
mp> average Joe, instead, old Stalin murdered some what, 30-40 million of
mp> them
Delirium
mp> (not including the war, during which POWs who escaped and made it back
mp> home were shot!
Mad delirium. Only 3% of POWs was judged and inprisoned.
With best regards, Ilya Chernyh. E-mail: ex...@supermail.ru
zolota
Actually, few were shot. They were instead worked to death building the
factories of the cold war, like nuclear facilities. There are many public
parks in the FSU that are in fact mass graves. I stood on one last July,
there is no historic sign, no list of names in a file somewhere, nothing to
remember them by.
>>
>> When there are revolutions based on "greed" (I'm thinking of
>> the American revolution), a bit of shit happens, and then
>> people get back to work making stuff.
>
> Never thought of American revolution as being greed-based.
> Interesting. Been a long time since history class.
>
The only person who signed the Declaration of Independance and who would not
stand to benefit from it financially was a man called Benedict Arnold.
George Washington, by contrast owed 1M pounds to London banks. It was also
the case that the rich an well educated were loyalists while the ambitious
but less educated were rebels. A third group were just apathetic, the rebels
were actually a minority. All of the lands and properties of the loyalists
were confiscated, guess who got them?
Z
Hyperoglyphe
"zolota" <zol...@REMOVEshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:C0v1d.408698$M95.195750@pd7tw1no...
>
> "mitch perkins" <mitchs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com...
>> Russian revolution was a real heartbreaker; supposed to help the
>> average Joe, instead, old Stalin murdered some what, 30-40 million of
>> them (not including the war, during which POWs who escaped and made it
>> back home were shot! "You were in the hands of the enemy; you must be
>> a spy." Soltzenystin's "Gulag Archipelago" will make you weep!
>
> Actually, few were shot. They were instead worked to death building the
> factories of the cold war, like nuclear facilities. There are many public
> parks in the FSU that are in fact mass graves. I stood on one last July,
> there is no historic sign, no list of names in a file somewhere, nothing
> to remember them by.
I'm a real fan of the "Road of Bones":
http://www.ursa.fi/~riikonen/luidentie1l.html
Dave
jmfb...@aol.com
mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
news:<41457c19$0$2667$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> In article <ekd1d.29182$D7....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>> "Wally Anglesea" <wang...@spbigpondammersarevermin.net.au> wrote:
>> >
>> >My only comment on that is that if the rich princes and kings of the
oil
>> >producing nations shared their wealth with their fellow countrymen
>> (instead
>> >of building opulent palaces and malls where the average citizen can't
even
>> >go), even by funding better and free schools, hospitals, medicines and
>> jobs
>> >for their citizens, then those countries would be less likely to sizzle
>> with
>> >discontent.
>> >Heck, the Koran is supposed to encourage the sharing of wealth.
>>
>> Sigh! This will not appease Al Queda leaders. They _are_ members
>> of that rich clique.
>
> Yes, but the people, given the opportunity to engage in productive
>activity, are less likely to listen to fanatics; respect for private
>property comes from having some.
The notion of private property is a capitalist economic device.
To transform a society from welfare-based to profit-based is
not an easy task if government "helps". Take a good look
at the troubles Russia has. People in third world countries
(this is an economic classification) do not need the kind of
help Liberals like to donate because of the strings of
slavery that are always attached.
> ... Given a choice, it seems folks would
>rather get an education and go to work, have a family, than blow
>themselves or others up.
You have it backwards. The first generation work at jobs that
don't require a college-flavored education. They pay for their
kids to get a college-flavored education. In one generation,
the family has gone from "poor" to middle-class. Note that these
people aren't poor w.r.t. income levels. Somewhere during
this transformation birth rates go down because women no longer
have to bear 5 to ensure survival of one child. They can
direct these energies to production of other things.
Now, mix a religion that hasn't evolved with the times into all
of this with all the fervor that comes with it, and you tend
to have a mess. The religious leaders (and not just Muslim
leaders) around the world see flock control slipping from
their fingers. Their initial, secondary, and tertiary reactions
are to preach a reversion to the "old times" and the "old ways"
to maintain their power. Unfortunately these idiots don't
have a good memory about the bad stuff of the "old times".
> We (NA) would have to say, "not buying another ounce of oil until
>you have human rights and decent standard of living." Okay, that's
>totally impossible, but something like it?
I thought you just said that earning a living was important to
mess prevention? Stopping the economy will just produce more
idle hands looking for things to do.
>
> I have been reading about revolts, revolutions,
>> etc. It seems like the ones who were done for the sake of the
>> "poor" were lead by rich dudes who had a score to settle with
>> their government. The side effects were very big messes that
>> keep growing.
>
> Russian revolution was a real heartbreaker; supposed to help the
>average Joe, instead, old Stalin murdered some what,
Go back further. Stalin didn't start it.
> .. 30-40 million of
>them (not including the war, during which POWs who escaped and made it
>back home were shot! "You were in the hands of the enemy; you must be
>a spy." Soltzenystin's "Gulag Archipelago" will make you weep!
>>
>> When there are revolutions based on "greed" (I'm thinking of
>> the American revolution), a bit of shit happens, and then
>> people get back to work making stuff.
>
> Never thought of American revolution as being greed-based.
>Interesting. Been a long time since history class.
There's more to it than that but our bad history classes taught
the mantra "taxation without representation". That has everything
to do about assets, where it goes, and how it's spent.
I used the word greed as today's Liberals use it. If anybody,
other than themselves, accumulates any assets, then they are
greedy if they want to keep it.
In Barbara Tuchman's book, _The March of Folly_, she collected
some of her essays about woodenheadedness. One of them is about
the American Revolution.
jmfb...@aol.com
So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
product of western civilization?
>
> I really hope that AlQuaeda can get together the white plestilence
>that thinks like you in one place and wipe it out of the world in a
>big, red nuclear blast. The sooner we expunge that pestilence the
>better for the survivors. Maybe we can later recycle the carbon
>molecules to make some soap
First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
what is done.
robert egri
With your last statement I am in full agreement that it is the basic
tenet of Islam but the really important question is if it is also the
basic tenet of God. I have my doubts. Don't you?
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote in message news:<7bQ0d.51$25....@news.uchicago.edu>...
>tenet of Islam but the really important question is if it is also the
>basic tenet of God. I have my doubts. Don't you?
:-)) I think you miss the point. The question "what is the basic
tenet of God?" is between "unanswerable", for those who believe in the
existance of such entity, and "meaningless", for those who don't. The
really important question is "what do people believe is the basic
tenet of God?". To phrase it in scientific terms (this is
sci.physics, after all), there is no observation you can perform to
confirm or falsify any hypothesis regarding the first question. On
there are hand, there are plenty of observations you can perform,
regarding the second one.
zolota
"Hyperoglyphe" <hypero...@schlockmail.com> wrote in message
news:414682c1$0$24407$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
I've been on that road. What was more impressive is the millions of people
who died in the whole area according to the locals. And cold? You could
freeze the balls of a brass monkey there.
Z
Ilya Chernyh
You wrote on Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:07:46 GMT:
z> "mitch perkins" <mitchs...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
z> Actually, few were shot. They were instead worked to death building the
z> factories of the cold war, like nuclear facilities. There are many
z> public parks in the FSU that are in fact mass graves. I stood on one
z> last July, there is no historic sign, no list of names in a file
z> somewhere, nothing to remember them by.
Where that park is situated?
Hyperoglyphe
"zolota" <zol...@REMOVEshaw.ca> wrote in message
>
> "Hyperoglyphe" <hypero...@schlockmail.com> wrote in message
> news:414682c1$0$24407$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au...
>>
>>
>> I'm a real fan of the "Road of Bones":
>>
>> http://www.ursa.fi/~riikonen/luidentie1l.html
>>
>>
>> Dave
>
> I've been on that road. What was more impressive is the millions of people
> who died in the whole area according to the locals. And cold? You could
> freeze the balls of a brass monkey there.
>
> Z
I have a dream of riding it on a chookie like those other maniacs on the
net.
Dave
(Oh yeah. Chookie AKA chook chaser, AKA trail bike. chook=chicken)
Charles J. Quarra
> In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
> >
> > Well, i had my doubts, but now that i see that the concept of "nazi
> >white trash" isnt just a buzzword, i'm starting to have deep
> >sympathies by Osama's philosophy
>
> So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
> and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
> using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
> product of western civilization?
In no way i approve violence or beheading of anyone for any reason.
Thats why it pisses me off when i hear supposedly "civilized" white
(or mentally-white) people talk about "Rounding up a quarter and wipe
them out "(implicitly wiping out any civilians in the run, but who
cares about that, right?)
If your hope to 'not be seen as a kinder, gentler nation but as a mean
sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody mess with you' is to
be applied by other countries, then i ask you; would you blame Japan
if they dropped a couple of Megaton upon New York and Washington? they
would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you? and
of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
Wouldnt you agree?
If a country pretends to have some kind of monopoly in the 'being the
sonafabitch', then i would support (with no hesitation too, since im a
sonafabitch person just like you are after all) financially,
tactically & morally any plans to brought down that country, wouldnt
you? if you said otherwise i would be surprised
> >
> > I really hope that AlQuaeda can get together the white plestilence
> >that thinks like you in one place and wipe it out of the world in a
> >big, red nuclear blast. The sooner we expunge that pestilence the
> >better for the survivors. Maybe we can later recycle the carbon
> >molecules to make some soap
>
> First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
> state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
> rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
> what is done.
Ok, im glad you felt bad about it
jmfb...@aol.com
disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
>jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message
news:<4146c898$0$2653$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
>> In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
>> disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
>
>> >
>> > Well, i had my doubts, but now that i see that the concept of "nazi
>> >white trash" isnt just a buzzword, i'm starting to have deep
>> >sympathies by Osama's philosophy
>>
>> So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
>> and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
>> using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
>> product of western civilization?
>
> In no way i approve violence or beheading of anyone for any reason.
>Thats why it pisses me off when i hear supposedly "civilized" white
>(or mentally-white) people talk about "Rounding up a quarter and wipe
>them out "(implicitly wiping out any civilians in the run, but who
>cares about that, right?)
Did you also notice the circumstance when I would make that happen?
ISTM, you've conveniently overlooked that little piece of vital
information.
>
>If your hope to 'not be seen as a kinder, gentler nation but as a mean
>sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody mess with you' is to
>be applied by other countries, then i ask you; would you blame Japan
>if they dropped a couple of Megaton upon New York and Washington?
Or course I blame them if they did that. And I sure as hell wouldn't
talk to them to find out why they didn't like us. Why do you think
Japan hasn't dropped a megaton on NYC? Because they still have
vague memories of what happens when we retaliate.
> ...they
>would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you? and
>of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
>with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
>WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
>Wouldnt you agree?
This mess in Iraq has nothing to do with revenge. You keep assuming
it is based on revenge. It's not. You keep assuming that Al Queda
messes are based on revenge. They're not. I know that you are
having trouble fitting today's messes into a box; it appears that
most people having the same problems.
>
> If a country pretends to have some kind of monopoly in the 'being the
>sonafabitch', then i would support (with no hesitation too, since im a
>sonafabitch person just like you are after all) financially,
>tactically & morally any plans to brought down that country, wouldnt
>you? if you said otherwise i would be surprised
>
>> >
>> > I really hope that AlQuaeda can get together the white plestilence
>> >that thinks like you in one place and wipe it out of the world in a
>> >big, red nuclear blast. The sooner we expunge that pestilence the
>> >better for the survivors. Maybe we can later recycle the carbon
>> >molecules to make some soap
>>
>> First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
>> state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
>> rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
>> what is done.
>
>Ok, im glad you felt bad about it
And you also wrong about this. I don't feel bad about it.
Bad doesn't begin to describe my revulsion.
mitch perkins
> jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message news:<4146c898$0$2653$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
> > In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> > disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Well, i had my doubts, but now that i see that the concept of "nazi
> > >white trash" isnt just a buzzword, i'm starting to have deep
> > >sympathies by Osama's philosophy
There's more than two choices here.
> >
> > So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
> > and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
> > using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
> > product of western civilization?
>
> In no way i approve violence or beheading of anyone for any reason.
> Thats why it pisses me off when i hear supposedly "civilized" white
> (or mentally-white) people talk about "Rounding up a quarter and wipe
> them out "(implicitly wiping out any civilians in the run, but who
> cares about that, right?)
Bit harsh. But /BAH is a reasonable person AFAIK.
>
> If your hope to 'not be seen as a kinder, gentler nation but as a mean
> sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody mess with you' is to
> be applied by other countries, then i ask you; would you blame Japan
> if they dropped a couple of Megaton upon New York and Washington? they
> would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you?
Wrong side in WWI. First strike: Japan. Loyalty to emperor meant
fighting to the death mano a mano (sic?). Who's gonna bother with
that? Not that those bombs were necessarily un-avoidable. Tough
issues; keep a clear head and a level tone. :)
> and
> of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
> with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
> WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
> Wouldnt you agree?
So impossible as to be un-worthy of discussion.
>
> If a country pretends to have some kind of monopoly in the 'being the
> sonafabitch', then i would support (with no hesitation too, since im a
> sonafabitch person just like you are after all) financially,
> tactically & morally any plans to brought down that country, wouldnt
> you? if you said otherwise i would be surprised
>
> > >
> > > I really hope that AlQuaeda can get together the white plestilence
> > >that thinks like you in one place and wipe it out of the world in a
> > >big, red nuclear blast. The sooner we expunge that pestilence the
> > >better for the survivors. Maybe we can later recycle the carbon
> > >molecules to make some soap
> >
> > First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
> > state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
> > rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
> > what is done.
>
> Ok, im glad you felt bad about it
Be nice.
Mitch
Charles J. Quarra
> In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
> > ...they
> >would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you? and
> >of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
> >with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
> >WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
> >Wouldnt you agree?
>
> This mess in Iraq has nothing to do with revenge. You keep assuming
> it is based on revenge. It's not. You keep assuming that Al Queda
> messes are based on revenge. They're not. I know that you are
> having trouble fitting today's messes into a box; it appears that
> most people having the same problems.
.....so ok, dont be shy, finish the phrase, lets hear about your theory
Charles J. Quarra
> disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote in message news:<bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>...
> > jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message news:<4146c898$0$2653$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
> > > In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> > > disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
> > >
> > > So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
> > > and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
> > > using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
> > > product of western civilization?
> >
> > In no way i approve violence or beheading of anyone for any reason.
> > Thats why it pisses me off when i hear supposedly "civilized" white
> > (or mentally-white) people talk about "Rounding up a quarter and wipe
> > them out "(implicitly wiping out any civilians in the run, but who
> > cares about that, right?)
>
> Bit harsh. But /BAH is a reasonable person AFAIK.
So following your line, what is so unreasonable about wiping american
officers from Iraq (or elsewhere for that matters), even if from time
to time some civilian contractist gets in the middle? This
circumstance is even more delicate, since you dont have Hussein
militar agents in your hood forcing you to get naked and eat crap
while they get a laugh
> >
> > If your hope to 'not be seen as a kinder, gentler nation but as a mean
> > sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody mess with you' is to
> > be applied by other countries, then i ask you; would you blame Japan
> > if they dropped a couple of Megaton upon New York and Washington? they
> > would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you?
>
> Wrong side in WWI. First strike: Japan. Loyalty to emperor meant
> fighting to the death mano a mano (sic?). Who's gonna bother with
> that? Not that those bombs were necessarily un-avoidable. Tough
> issues; keep a clear head and a level tone. :)
I think you missed the point completely. the point is (and im going to
be completely harsh and blunt to make sure the point gets where it
should) "if you screw the neighbour's wife, dont complaint when you
discover yours in a threesome party"
>
> > and
> > of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
> > with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
> > WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
> > Wouldnt you agree?
>
> So impossible as to be un-worthy of discussion.
but definitely something to think about
> > > First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
> > > state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
> > > rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
> > > what is done.
> >
> > Ok, im glad you felt bad about it
>
> Be nice.
I am. Believe me
mitch perkins
> mitchs...@yahoo.com (mitch perkins) wrote in message news:<64dddc3d.04091...@posting.google.com>...
> > disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote in message news:<bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>...
> > > jmfb...@aol.com wrote in message news:<4146c898$0$2653$61fe...@news.rcn.com>...
> > > > In article <bc979c06.04091...@posting.google.com>,
> > > > disposablemail...@yahoo.com.ar (Charles J. Quarra) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So you approve of beheading people just because they're working
> > > > and you feel like doing some bizarre behaviour? You're
> > > > using a computer. Are you willing to trash it and any other
> > > > product of western civilization?
> > >
> > > In no way i approve violence or beheading of anyone for any reason.
> > > Thats why it pisses me off when i hear supposedly "civilized" white
> > > (or mentally-white) people talk about "Rounding up a quarter and wipe
> > > them out "(implicitly wiping out any civilians in the run, but who
> > > cares about that, right?)
> >
> > Bit harsh. But /BAH is a reasonable person AFAIK.
>
> So following your line, what is so unreasonable about wiping american
> officers from Iraq (or elsewhere for that matters), even if from time
> to time some civilian contractist gets in the middle?
I only said *she* is reasonable; didn't vouch for her every word and
glance. In a life where information is shaky at best, people
nonetheless manage to believe things and even do each other in as a
result. It's expected/accepted behaviour to defend when under attack,
no question. What about when one's own kind "gets in the middle"?
> This
> circumstance is even more delicate, since you dont have Hussein
> militar agents in your hood forcing you to get naked and eat crap
> while they get a laugh
As you say, a matter of circumstance.
> > >
> > > If your hope to 'not be seen as a kinder, gentler nation but as a mean
> > > sonofabitch who has no hesitation when somebody mess with you' is to
> > > be applied by other countries, then i ask you; would you blame Japan
> > > if they dropped a couple of Megaton upon New York and Washington? they
> > > would be having no hesitation with someone that messed with you?
> >
> > Wrong side in WWI. First strike: Japan. Loyalty to emperor meant
> > fighting to the death mano a mano (sic?). Who's gonna bother with
> > that? Not that those bombs were necessarily un-avoidable. Tough
> > issues; keep a clear head and a level tone. :)
>
> I think you missed the point completely. the point is (and im going to
> be completely harsh and blunt to make sure the point gets where it
> should) "if you screw the neighbour's wife,
Can we call that first strike?
> dont complaint when you
> discover yours in a threesome party"
...right.
> >
> > > and
> > > of course, there should be at least 20 or 30 WTC massacres to get even
> > > with japan (im counting based on 3000 civilians wiped per WTC), 700
> > > WTC massacres more to get even to those filthy american aborigens
> > > Wouldnt you agree?
> >
> > So impossible as to be un-worthy of discussion.
>
> but definitely something to think about
It's over. I like what we have. I'm sure we'd be fine without it.
Not proud of how we got it. Turns out we got it the same way as always
on this planet.
>
> > > > First you accuse me of Nazi thinking; then you go ahead and
> > > > state your intentions of actions the Nazis did as SOP. They
> > > > rendered the fat of people. Now go look up rendering and
> > > > what is done.
> > >
> > > Ok, im glad you felt bad about it
> >
> > Be nice.
> I am. Believe me
No, you have to show it.
Mitch
jmfb...@aol.com
Theory about what? Can I trim newsgroups? I'm in s.p.
Alfred Einstead
> > Russia [...] has just sent out the classic
> > red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> > Very soon. Not the US.
>
> Very soon, very hard. It is in the Russian national character. It is
> political life or death for Putin. The interested reader might look
> up Putin's resume and see what he did for a living before his present
> employment.
[...]
> "If you open the can on these worms you must be prepared to go
> all the way, because they're not gonna give up the fight until one of
> you is dead," he says. "You wanna know how you do it? They pull a
> knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you
> send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way, and that's how
> you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do
> that?"
"We reserve the right to strike anywhere in the world..."
-- Putin.
and more recently
"Now in Russia, we are seriously preparing to act preventively
against terrorists"
"Every concession leads to a widening of their demands and
multiplies the losses"
"In this war there is no rear or neutral zone,..."
(c.f. Bush, there is no neutral zone "you are either with us
or with the terrorists" and those who sit on the fence, like
Iraq, automatically declare their affiliation)
"...and where terrorists don't meet the necessary resistance,
their basis and coordination centers crop up"
Alfred Einstead
> > None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
> > start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
> > red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> > Very soon. Not the US.
> the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
> world. Truly a glorious idea.
You still don't know who the Enemy is. None of you have yet gotten
a clue on the true identity of the Underground Axis. They have not
yet fully emerged.
From news://alt.radio.talk; September 13, 2001
"Call For A Formal Declaration Of War Against Terrorism"
>We already know who the enemy is.
>
>There is currently in existence a de facto alliance amongst each
>and every one of these parties and we must recognise the emergence and
>existence of this common enemy as a single identifiable entity.
>Regardless of whether they themselves even recognise their own
>existence as a common entity, now they are.
>
>In large measure this is a movement that is nothing less than a
>political and military arm of a worldwide radical Fundamentalist
>movement; not confined to Islam, but a cancer which infests other
>faiths and ideologies. [...]
[specifically making reference to and including, but by no means
limited to, the fundamentalist Christians of the Deep South in the US]
>But make no mistake, that problem itself is deeply rooted in the
>population of the regions of the world where it is rampant and it
>IS in large measure religiously inspired: nothing less than a
>crusade that would have every vestige of our way of life extricated
>from the face of this planet.
>
>The situation is completely analogous to that which existed in the
>mid to late 1930's at a time when the blight of Fascism was still
>nothing more than a vague premonition of malice, before it too was
>clearly recognised as a single identifiable entity even by the
>culprits themselves.
Jan Pompe
> "robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>>Alfred Einstead wrote:
>>
>>>None of which is relevant. Russia is the one who is going to
>>>start pulling an Uncle Al, and who has just sent out the classic
>>>red-flag danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
>>>Very soon. Not the US.
>>
>>Once they do it, we do it. Between the two of us we can remove most of
>>the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it! A Moslem free
>>world. Truly a glorious idea.
>>The sooner we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
>
>
> You still don't know who the Enemy is.
It's the French so now you know and there's no more need for discussion.
Alt.messianic & sci.physics removed from post list.
Alfred Einstead
> > Yes, but the people, given the opportunity to engage in productive
> >activity, are less likely to listen to fanatics; respect for private
> >property comes from having some.
> The notion of private property is a capitalist economic device.
Communist/Socialist(/or whatever you want to call it now) China
legalized private property a few months ago.
jmfb...@aol.com
IIRC, some of it. There was already entrepreneurship going on
when we played tourists in 1985 or somewhen around then. The
culture of building something very, very well was still going
on back then. It will be interesting to see what they do
with manufacturing and transitions out of coal for fuel.
Watching a Hong Kong broadcast helps to keep track of
what is going on; note that I listen more to what they
talk about than to what they say.
hanson
news:e58d56ae.04091...@posting.google.com...> > > Russia is the one who has just sent out the classic red-flag
> > > danger signals of a major power about to strike hard.
> > > Very soon. Not the US.
>
> > the Moslems. Israel can clean up the crumbs. Think of it!
> > A Moslem free world. Truly a glorious idea. The sooner
> > we expunge this pestilence the better for the survivors.
>
> You still don't know who the Enemy is. None of you have
> yet gotten a clue on the true identity of the Underground Axis.
> They have not yet fully emerged.
> limited to, the fundamentalist Christians of the Deep South in the US
> > "Call For A Formal Declaration Of War Against Terrorism"
> >We already know who the enemy is.
> >political and military arm of a worldwide radical Fundamentalist
> >movement; not confined to Islam, but a cancer which infests other
> >faiths and ideologies. [...]
> >population of the regions of the world where it is rampant and it
> >IS in large measure religiously inspired: nothing less than a
> >crusade that would have every vestige of our way of life extricated
> >from the face of this planet.
> >
Well, Alfred, in the scenario that you just painted in your post
you have identified the three essential players in this phenomenon:
a) The Kolkerim Jews who are rooting for Israel to steal tidbits
of land from their neighbors, to settle Judea and Samaria, which
in turn causes the indiscriminate, homocidal mania as seen on
News at 11,....all the way to the cyber irrationality for wholesale
nuclear genocide as advocated by the Schwartz-Kolker AshkeNazis.
b) The US Evangelicals Fundies who pay (a) to build housing on the
stolen real estate in the hope to accelerate the bible prophecy for
the Second Coming, but in reality only promote and aggravate (a).
c) The Fundamentalist Muslims, the counter part to the
Zionist/Evangelical's club , who also hi-jacked their religion in the
same way and for the same purpose that (a) and (b) did it.
These then are the current players in a scenario that was broadcast
are least 3 times on "60 Minutes", the first one over 3 years ago.
However, you omitted to add the most significant issue of why this
cursed issue developed in the first place and now appears to surface
and really develop into a global plague:...."the enemy is amongst us",
see:
Re: CONSERVATIVES SPEAK OUT Iraq War Turning to Shit
news:Zm13d.1222$qA6...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
and
Re: The American Conservative Magazine
news:eM%2d.1183$qA6....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Have fun, Alfred, stay out of harms way, let the idiots get their
rocks off........and make a buck off'em while they are stroking
and striking each other........ahahahahaha........AHAHAHAHAHA.........
ahahahaha.......ahahahanson