OT: Historical Amnesia (was: Re: *** HILAL (Crescent Moon) SIGHTING - USA/Canada - for RAMADAN (Month of Fasting) 1425 AH, Evening of Thu/Fri 14/15 Oct 2004 CE ***)
Christian Wilms
> Granted the Catholics have their alter boy chasing priests and the
> Mormons have their bizarre cult but at least they don't hijack
> airliners.
Well a look into the history books does bring the crusades to mind. Even
the most militant islamists still have a way to go to bring that amount
of death and suffering to the world.
Granted, this is no excuse for anything just a thought to slow the
finger-pointing.
Besides that I still don't understand why so many people - repeating
rifle being the most predominant here - tend to generalize so much.
"Muslims" are not the same as "islamist terrorists". Sadly some people
just don't appear to be able to grasp that concept - strange considering
that "generalizations" was a grade school subject (at least in NY).
Chris
robert j. kolker
West Coast Engineering wrote:
> OK
>
> The is a GOD. He created everything in the universe. He is all
> powerful, all knowing and all loving.
>
> He made us in his own image and likeness.
Who made the god?
Bob Kolker
robert j. kolker
Repeating Rifle wrote:
> I understand that. But if you cannot tell the difference between venomous
> and non-venomous snakes, you lash out at all serpents.
If all the snakes are killed the bad ones are taken care of.
One of the infellicities of modernn warfare are the collateral
casualties. In WW2 (the Good War) the Allies killed 500,000 civilians in
Europe and at least that many in Japan. It was a necessary evil.
A worker in a war plant is as much a weapon of the enemy as a cannon or
a plane.
In Japan industry was somewhat dispersed into residential areas.
Machinists put lathes in their houses. That makes them legitimate
targets. Too bad the wife and kids life there too. Shit happen.
Bob Kolker
Christian Wilms
Combining the two following paragraphs:
> I'd quibble with your notion of "recent"--Islam dates from ~571, making it
> 1500 years old, versus 2004 for christendom.... not such a broad time gap
> as you imply
> Hmmm.... you seem to have forgotten about the inquisition. It's a
> relatively recent phenomenon that criticizing a Christian church isn't a
> sort path to burning at the stake....
And then doing a bit of math one will notice that the inquisition dates
back to a time at which Christianity was as old as Islam is now ... one
just can't help wondering if religions tend to go through such a phase
at a certain time ... most probably though this is a mere coincidence.
Chris
robert j. kolker
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>>
>
> Arab culture extends beyond Saudi Arabia.
The culture of Egypt is not Arabic, even though both are Islamic countries.
Bob Kolker
>
>
rander3127
<salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>in article midbd.41$l55.22@trnddc09, Dr. Mohib. N. Durrani at
>mdur...@verizon.net wrote on 10/13/04 10:08 AM:
>
>> (In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
>
>Where is the evidence tha Allah is beneficint and/or merciful. Oh, I forgot.
>Beheading is a merciful way to go.
Is that like a slogan I saw:
"Islam, winning the hearts and minds of the world, one bomb
at a time?"
West Coast Engineering
>Repeating Rifle <salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<BD92D48B.263D3%salm...@sbcglobal.net>...
>> in article midbd.41$l55.22@trnddc09, Dr. Mohib. N. Durrani at
>> mdur...@verizon.net wrote on 10/13/04 10:08 AM:
>>
>> > (In the name of ALLAH, THE MOST BENEFICENT, THE MOST MERCIFUL)
>>
>> Where is the evidence tha Allah is beneficint and/or merciful. Oh, I forgot.
>> Beheading is a merciful way to go.
>
>I find it odd that in this modern era that there are this many
>superstitious people out there. Go figure.
>
>One has to ask why most of the world's maniacs and terrorists are
>Muslims and if the world would be a better place if Allla recalled his
>followers tomorrow.
>
>Granted the Catholics have their alter boy chasing priests and the
>Mormons have their bizarre cult but at least they don't hijack
>airliners.
That cause it's more fun buggering 12 year olds and suicide is not
part of the party.
.
West Coast Engineering <westcoaste...@westcoastengineering.com> says...
I took a look at http://westcoastengineering.com today.
Your HTML sucks! Why don't you get a real HTML editor instead of
composing in Microsoft Word 97 and then letting Netscape have a
whack at it?
Alpha Omega
<mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote
> >
> The Hundred years War
> was, for the most part, just a "state of war", with little significant
> fighting taking place (averaging a battle or two per generation).
Untrue, it was spasmodic, made up of many conflicts separated by periods of
alleged truce.
It also covered a wide area, european-wise, and not all regions were at war
at any given time.
The fighting when it did take place was ferocious and nasty, in the best
tradition.
In addition it saw many innovations in warfare, artillery being one.
Of course there was also this most regrettable affair,
the judicial and widely attended cremation of at least one virgin.
Christian Wilms
> Also, try to remember that the Crusades were responses to the spread of
> Islam by the sword.
If I'm not totally mistaken it was more of a response to the expansion
of several peoples/tribes and factually less religiosly motivatet. The
Vatikan presented the whole thing as a threatening of the holy land by
barbarians in order to provoke enough response from european rulers.
> I'll point a finger you can't slow with a thought; religions in
> general are bloody businesses.
I see that we do share common opinions :-)
> It's valid in that Muslims in general tacitly support their
> extremists by failing to denounce them.
Actually, that impression is partially caused by a blind spot american
and western european media tend to have.
Just to name one example: the reaction of french and italian Muslims to
the kidnapping of french journalists and italien NGO-workers was
amazing. The outcry was loud and well heard.
> So, make it a subject in Islamic schools...
And not just there ...
Chris
.
robert j. kolker <now...@nowhere.net> says...
Come back when you stop talking through your hat.
The name "Kolker" tells us your position on Islam.
Shawn
> Misfiring Smoothbore wrote with urine in the snow:
>
>> Where is the evidence tha Allah is beneficint and/or merciful. Oh, I
>> forgot.
>> Beheading is a merciful way to go.
>>
> see the same lame posts every month after time Dr. Durrani posts his table.
>
> Shawn
Hmm, should've been a "time-less" post. :-P
Shawn
West Coast Engineering
>
>
>Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>
>>
>> I think a lot of the "Islamist terrorist" thing is an Arab thing, too.
>
>Mohammed Attah who lead the capture of one of the planes from Logan
>Airport in Boston was Egyptian. Several of the Al Quedah operatives are
>(or were) Egyptian. So it is not just an Arab thing.
>
>Bob Kolker
No, it is an asshole thing.
West Coast Engineering
>
>West Coast Engineering <westcoaste...@westcoastengineering.com> says...
>
>>No, it is an asshole thing.
>
>You should know.
You must be a diaper head.
Jonathan Silverlight
<ton...@yahoo.com> writes
>
>"Eric" <notV...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:F0obd.465341$8_6.223903@attbi_s04...
>> Shawn wrote:
>>
>> > Misfiring Smoothbore wrote with urine in the snow:
>> >
>> >> Where is the evidence tha Allah is beneficint and/or merciful. Oh, I
>> >> forgot. Beheading is a merciful way to go.
>> >>
>not the beheaded.
>
If you want to pursue this OT thread, the US lost the "moral high
ground" when they chose to protect only the Iraqi Oil Ministry, showing
just why they invaded.
They then considered recruiting the Iraqi mukhabharat (secret police)
and capped it all by torturing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.
Now, we learn that nuclear materials and equipment have gone missing,
and are probably in the hands of the terrorists who are now active in
Iraq, thanks to the chaos there.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with Dr. Durrani's _on topic_ post to
this group.
--
What have they got to hide? Release the ESA Beagle 2 report.
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
.
West Coast Engineering <westcoaste...@westcoastengineering.com> says...
>All the way to the bottom of the garbage can.
Garbage cans are a subject upon which you are an expert.
ZZBunker
> In article <1gln66a.oivai4ltaz9cN%usen...@out-of-phase.de>,
> Christian Wilms <usen...@out-of-phase.de> wrote:
> >Product developer <jdu...@vorel.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Granted the Catholics have their alter boy chasing priests and the
> >> Mormons have their bizarre cult but at least they don't hijack
> >> airliners.
> >
> >Well a look into the history books does bring the crusades to mind. Even
> >the most militant islamists still have a way to go to bring that amount
> >of death and suffering to the world.
>
> a temporary military success followed by a succession of failures. The
> expanding Islamic Empire was a series of military successes into Eastern
> Europe, North Africa, Spain, Greece, Italy..., only temporarily halted at
> the borders of Byzantium. If the Christians had such success they
> wouldn't have had to settle for Crusades, they would have taken ground
> and held it. Instead they were losing ground until about the time of the
> Renaissance.
>
> >Granted, this is no excuse for anything just a thought to slow the
> >finger-pointing.
> >
> >Besides that I still don't understand why so many people - repeating
> >rifle being the most predominant here - tend to generalize so much.
> >"Muslims" are not the same as "islamist terrorists". Sadly some people
> >just don't appear to be able to grasp that concept - strange considering
> >that "generalizations" was a grade school subject (at least in NY).
>
> individuals from Bible-thumping young Earth creationists to Skeptical
> Inquirer-thumping atheists, but can't comprehend a diversity of Muslim
> beliefs and attitudes that range from Koran-thumping terrorists to
> secularist modernists.
They is obvious though. Since both The Catholic Church,
and the Protestent Eclessiatic Elders generally take it for granted,
that if you are not a Jesuit or an Born-Again Evangelical Christian,
you are either a Mulsem Koran-thumping waste of
God's Eternal Space, a hopeless Jewish Idol Testament Worshipper, or
a Christian in need of sacrificial killing to the
Lamb of G-D.
>
> I think a lot of the "Islamist terrorist" thing is an Arab thing, too.
> (And let's lump the Persians in with that-- it seems Iran is sending
> agents into Iraq to encourage the spread of militant Islam.) That sort of
> thing just doesn't show up as often in Asian countries like Indonesia, or
> Malaysia.
During their entire 5000 year existences, neither
Iran nor Irag, regardless whether it's ancient non-Islamic Persia,
or modern Islamic Persia. have ever sent body anywhere.
Except to the hand-and-foot chopping factory, for the services
of the eternal Psychopathic Druids that Iran and Iraq call Physicians.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
>
>Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>
>>
>> I think a lot of the "Islamist terrorist" thing is an Arab thing, too.
>
>Airport in Boston was Egyptian. Several of the Al Quedah operatives are
>(or were) Egyptian. So it is not just an Arab thing.
>
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
me...@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
Shawn
> West Coast Engineering wrote:
>
>> Europeans are assholes. At least the ones in my family are.
>
>
> ROTLMEuropeanO
Damn, I gotta use my spell checker.
Ahem: ROTFLMEuropeanO
T.T.
"robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:2t87flF...@uni-berlin.de...
.
West Coast Engineering <westcoaste...@westcoastengineering.com> says...
>[God is] all knowing and all loving.
>
>He made us in his own image and likeness.
Make up your mind. Both statements cannot be true.
Maleki
> But then, critical discourse is
> rather strongly discouraged within Islam,
!!
>
> Write a book making fun of the tenets of any Xtian church today, and
> what happens? You make some money, and the churches go on as if nothing
> happened. But, look what happened to the author of _The Satanic Verses_;
> there's a literal price on his head.
Oh I see now what you mean by "critical discourse."
--
az khar miporseh chAhArshanbe keye.
West Coast Engineering
.
T.T. <ton...@yahoo.com> says...
>God is the offspring of two people who had a really, REALLY big bang.
How would a virgin like you know?
Alpha Omega
> >> Second, not only were the crusades just a brief counterattack, they
> >> were also a small time affair, quite limited in their territorial
> >> scope and in the numbers of people involved. In terms of "amount of
> >> death and suffering" (your words, above), the internal wars fought
> >> (during the millenium mentioned above) either within Christendom or
> >> the Muslim world were incomparably more vicious.
In the context of the <<main event>> of the 12th and 13th centuries, the
Mongol invasions and conquests, the submission of most of Eurasia, the
Crusades were just an interesting but relatively small episode, but
curiously just as the Mongols were about to dispatch the Muslim armies once
and for all (to the greatest glee of the Crusaders) the Mongol expansion ran
out of steam, at least in the Near East.
Baghdad fell to Huleghu, a grand son or nephew of Genghis Khan, and the
Eastern Caliphate abolished in 1258.
Even curiouser was the subsequent gradual conversion of the Mongols
(initially Buddhists, Nestorian Christians and Animists) to Islam, at least
in the Western part of their domain.
So in a way the vanquished managed to subvert their conquerors.
Now what has this got to do with optics?
Shawn
> Shawn wrote:
>
>
>>Misfiring Smoothbore wrote with urine in the snow:
>>
>>
>>>Where is the evidence tha Allah is beneficint and/or merciful. Oh, I
>>>forgot. Beheading is a merciful way to go.
>>>
>>
>>see the same lame posts every month after time Dr. Durrani posts his
>>table.
>>
>>Shawn
>
>
> little blurbs attempting to promote a Satan worshipping cult like Islam,
> so naturally it gets a reaction.
> Eric
>
Time to adjust the meds Eric.
West Coast Engineering
Hey, that is what the Nuns told me.
West Coast Engineering
OOOOOOH. Sounds like a believer.
West Coast Engineering
Gee, guess I offended a true Christian.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>Michael <mb...@light-deletedashtodash-houseoptics.com> wrote:
>
>Combining the two following paragraphs:
>
>> I'd quibble with your notion of "recent"--Islam dates from ~571, making it
>> 1500 years old, versus 2004 for christendom.... not such a broad time gap
>> as you imply
>
>> Hmmm.... you seem to have forgotten about the inquisition. It's a
>> relatively recent phenomenon that criticizing a Christian church isn't a
>> sort path to burning at the stake....
>
>And then doing a bit of math one will notice that the inquisition dates
>back to a time at which Christianity was as old as Islam is now ... one
>just can't help wondering if religions tend to go through such a phase
>at a certain time ... most probably though this is a mere coincidence.
>
Not necessarily a coincidence. Religions get at their most vicious
when they feel that they're beginning to lose their grip. Note that
the time of the inquisition was the time of the Reformation.
.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu <mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> says...
>>The Crusades were a lot bigger than you make them out to be.
>>
>No, they were not. Whether you judge by forces involved, scope and
>significance of territories fought over, or long term strategic and
>political impact, the Crusades were a second rate event.
Political impact? The Islamic world is still talking about them.
Forces involved? 80% as big as the mongolian hordes.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
>mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu <mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> says...
>
>>Oh, it was already used in the late stages of the Hundred years war,
>>not at the battlefield yet but in sieges. As such it played a major
>>role by enormously reducing the importance of fortified places.
>
>Sieges? We are talking about gunpowder, not catapults, numbnuts.
>
Of course we're talking about gunpowder. The first significant uses
of artillery were in bringing down walls of castles, no people. In
this application mobility was not an issue and low rate of fire
could've been tolerated.
Which is not to say that artillery wasn't used on the battlefields in
the closing battles of the Hundred year wars. It was. but it was
used in sieges prior to this.
Where exactly did you get the impression that I was talking about
catapults?
.
ZZBunker <zzbu...@netscape.net> says...
> During their entire 5000 year existences, neither
> Iran nor Irag, regardless whether it's ancient non-Islamic Persia,
> or modern Islamic Persia. have ever sent body anywhere.
> Except to the hand-and-foot chopping factory, for the services
> of the eternal Psychopathic Druids that Iran and Iraq call Physicians.
Get your facts straight. They were the world's traders.
.
Repeating Rifle <salm...@sbcglobal.net> says...
>
>> "Muslims" are not the same as "islamist terrorists". Sadly some people
>> just don't appear to be able to grasp that concept - strange considering
>> that "generalizations" was a grade school subject (at least in NY).
>
>and non-venomous snakes, you lash out at all serpents.
I can't tell you from Timothy McVeigh. Is it OK if I lash out at you
rather than learning the difference?
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
>mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu <mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> says...
>
>>>
>>No, they were not. Whether you judge by forces involved, scope and
>>significance of territories fought over, or long term strategic and
>>political impact, the Crusades were a second rate event.
>
>Political impact? The Islamic world is still talking about them.
The Islamic world was not talking about them in any serious way for
many hundreds of years.
>
>Forces involved? 80% as big as the mongolian hordes.
>
Eh? Not even close.
Consider that even few hundred year later (when the population of
Europe was larger) the forces involved in the Hundred years war rarely
exceeded 30-40000, and that's when they operated close to their supply
bases. The Crusader armies were typically in the 10-20000 range.
Europeans of that time just didn't have the ability to raise and
supply larger armies than these, in the field.
You may further consider that the territory occupied by the crusaders
never amounted to more than a percent or so of the Muslim territories,
and these was in the periphery, not anywhere close to the Muslim power
centers. Would the crusaders have at their disposal forces anywhere
near those available to the Mongol hordes, they would've penetrated
way deeper (as the Mongols did).
On a comparable scale, if the the Mongols were a stroke or a heart
attack, the crusaders were a common cold.
Repeating Rifle
10/14/04 8:09 PM:
That is unfortunate indeed. When streptococcus bacteria try to avoid the
immune system by imitating heart tissue, you end up getting rheumatic fever.
Fortunately, there are markers on our islamic terrorists that sometimes are
easy to spot by our immune system, Homeland Security. Unfortunately,
Homeland security may cause a figurative rheumatic fever.
Bill
.
.
Alpha Omega <who@where> says...
>In addition it saw many innovations in warfare, artillery being one.
Artillery was a novelty, not really used in war until many years later.
ZZBunker
My fact's are infintely straight. It's known
they were traders, Which is why Caesar crushed their
stupid asses, along with their Eqytian Lion-builder
allies, their Jewish Temple-builder allies, their
Venetian flood-control allies, their Turkish
Marine hosemen allies, their German unground "castle"
allies, their French bridge-to-nowhere allies,
their future British oil-fire allies,
before even giving the idiots a chance to trade
the oil which their extremely sick future communist
friends from Mongolia.
.
robert j. kolker <now...@nowhere.net> says...
>In Japan industry was somewhat dispersed into residential areas.
>Machinists put lathes in their houses. That makes them legitimate
>targets. Too bad the wife and kids life there too. Shit happen.
Pure Urbam Myth. Never happened.
.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
><mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> wrote
>> >
>> The Hundred years War
>> was, for the most part, just a "state of war", with little significant
>> fighting taking place (averaging a battle or two per generation).
>
>Untrue, it was spasmodic, made up of many conflicts separated by periods of
>alleged truce.
Which is same I said above, in different wording.
>It also covered a wide area, european-wise, and not all regions were at war
>at any given time.
Indeed.
>
>The fighting when it did take place was ferocious and nasty, in the best
>tradition.
>
Of course. There was never a tradition of kind and gentle fighting.
Yet, if you observe the total amount of fighting that took place over
upwards of a 100 years, this was, for the most part, a low intensity
conflict. Few major battles, lots of skirmishes, sieges, etc.
>In addition it saw many innovations in warfare, artillery being one.
>
Yes, very important.
>Of course there was also this most regrettable affair,
>the judicial and widely attended cremation of at least one virgin.
>
Well, happens.
.
>In the context of the <<main event>> of the 12th and 13th centuries, the
>Mongol invasions and conquests, the submission of most of Eurasia, the
>Crusades were just an interesting but relatively small episode,
The Crusades were a lot bigger than you make them out to be.
DrPostman
>Sieges? We are talking about gunpowder, not catapults, numbnuts.
You've never heard of a siege using artillery? Check out what
happened at Sevastopol some time. And for a Hundred Years War
equivalent The Siege at Castilon at the end of that war saw 300 siege
cannon and bombards employed:
http://xenophongroup.com/montjoie/castilon.htm
And a quote from this page:
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/ARTICLES/rogers.htm
"This paper will argue that twice over the course of the Hundred
Years' War new developments revolutionized the conduct of war in
Europe, in each case with consequences as significant for the history
of the world as those which took place during Parker's Military
Revolution (1500-1800). The first was the transition outlined in the
paragraph above, which I shall refer to as the "Infantry Revolution."
12 The second, the "Artillery Revolution," occurred when gunpowder
weapons reversed the long-standing superiority of the defensive in
siege warfare. Each of these transformations fundamentally altered the
paradigm of war in Europe, with far-reaching consequences for the
structures of social and political life, and thus each truly deserves
to be termed a "military revolution" in itself."
The same year as the end of the Hundred Years War saw an islamic
army use a 1,200lb cannon ball to breach the walls of Constantinople.
That was in 1453
Now, take your foot out of your mouth and learn to make Google your
friend.
--
Dr.Postman USPS, MBMC, BsD; "Disgruntled, But Unarmed"
Member,Board of Directors, afa-b, SKEP-TI-CULT® #15-51506-253.
AFA-B Official Pollster & Hammer of Thor winner - August 2004
You can email me at: DrPostman(at)gmail.com
"Again, think type and _them_ make sure that your babble is understood in
the common ENGLISH language."
-ExcrementOne displays his familiarity with irony
Repeating Rifle
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote on 10/14/04 9:19 PM:
> No, they were not. Whether you judge by forces involved, scope and
> significance of territories fought over, or long term strategic and
> political impact, the Crusades were a second rate event.
>
Most snippersnappers reading this group probably never heard of 'Lil Abner,
a comic strip by Al Capp. Dogpatchers always returned Senator Phogbound back
to Washington because that would keep him out of Dogpatch. The crusaders
were the pope's Phogbounds. He got them out of Europe, and they might even
send bend some loot back from Wash.. I mean Jeruselem.
Bill
Mark Fergerson
> OK
>
> The is a GOD. He created everything in the universe. He is all
> powerful, all knowing and all loving.
>
> He made us in his own image and likeness.
>
> Our main goal in life seems to be to get as much food, sex and money
> as we can possibly get without having another human being kill us, put
> us in prison or give us a fatal sexually transmitted disease but we
> are made in the image of GOD?
Then He's as fucked up as we are, which would explain a lot, no?
> GOD appointed priests, rabbis, mullahs etc to be his personal
> representatives. They know more about GOD than the rest of us do. They
> are smarter than we are. GOD speaks to them and they relay what he
> says to us.
And we know this only because they say so.
> Somehow, GOD never told them how to make money, so we need to provide
> it. GOD is always running out of money. GOD must have failed ECONOMICS
> 101. I remember him. He was the short guy with the wart on his nose in
> the back of the classroom.
Anyone who can create an entire Universe out of thought (not to
mention getting the numerical value of pi wrong _twice_) can't be
bothered to concern Himself with mere bookkeeping.
> Now GOD loves all of us. He set down 10 simple rules for us to live
> by. Problem is, if we don't follow these rules, GOD made a really bad
> place called HELL. It is filled with all the creatures that did not
> follow the 10 rules. In HELL we burn for all eternity, but still, GOD
> loves us.
"Tough love".
> GOD really loves us, and lets us go to the good place if we die for
> him. He made living, breathing creatures and the greatest thing we can
> do for him is die?
Not quite; you must be prepared to kiss His ass eternally afterward.
> Is there something wrong with all this or am I just stupid?
Yes, no, in that order.
Also, you might ask "If God is male, what does He use His penis for?"
Mark L. Fergerson
robert j. kolker
Mark Fergerson wrote:
> Yes, no, in that order.
>
> Also, you might ask "If God is male, what does He use His penis for?"
The Virgin Mary would have a few things to say about that if she were
still around.
The Virgin Mary said "Oh God!" and God asked if it was good for her.
Bob Kolker
Tim Eastham
> OK
>
> The is a GOD. He created everything in the universe. He is all
> powerful, all knowing and all loving.
loving mean?
Malachi 1:2 - "I have loved you," says the Lord.
But you ask: "How have You loved us?"
"Wasn't Esau Jacob's brother?" [This is] the Lord's declaration. "Even
so, I loved Jacob, 3 but I hated Esau. I turned his mountains into a
wasteland, and [gave] his inheritance to the desert jackals."
>
> He made us in his own image and likeness.
>
True.
> Our main goal in life seems to be to get as much food, sex and money
> as we can possibly get without having another human being kill us, put
> us in prison or give us a fatal sexually transmitted disease but we
> are made in the image of GOD?
Got a mouse in your pocket? That is not my goal.
>
> GOD appointed priests, rabbis, mullahs etc to be his personal
> representatives. They know more about GOD than the rest of us do. They
> are smarter than we are. GOD speaks to them and they relay what he
> says to us.
I assume you are not talking about Christians here. You are just
mixing the Old Testament with the New Testament. God did appoint
priests. He never said they know more than us. The descendants of
Aaron were chosen for their faith in God and would care for the altar.
He did speak to them, that is true.
>
> Somehow, GOD never told them how to make money, so we need to provide
> it. GOD is always running out of money. GOD must have failed ECONOMICS
> 101. I remember him. He was the short guy with the wart on his nose in
> the back of the classroom.
Uh, the Fall? We lost our bliss long before the Jews departed from
Egypt.
>
> Now GOD loves all of us.
See above.
>He set down 10 simple rules for us to live
> by. Problem is, if we don't follow these rules, GOD made a really bad
> place called HELL. It is filled with all the creatures that did not
> follow the 10 rules. In HELL we burn for all eternity, but still, GOD
> loves us.
Once again, I assume you are refering to the Old Testament again. By
the way, there are more than just ten rules (your word not mine). In
Jewish society there were three categories of law: Ceremonial law,
Moral law, and Civil law. Hell is filled with people who don't
believe in the great sacrifice of Jesus.
John 3:16 - For God loved the world in this way: He gave His only Son,
so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal
life.
>
> GOD really loves us, and lets us go to the good place if we die for
> him. He made living, breathing creatures and the greatest thing we can
> do for him is die?
Muslim stuff here I assume.
>
> Is there something wrong with all this or am I just stupid?
Just uninformed and confused I think. It is not uncommon to confuse
the concepts of the Old and New Testament without putting them in
their proper order. Also, it is not hard for the works based religion
of Muslims to throw in some confusion too.
Christ teaches that you cannot follow those 'rules' perfectly. That
we are not capable of being as pure as God. His perfect sacrifice is
what cleanses the believer of shortcomings that they cannot achieve
themselves.
>
> Jim Klein
>
> West Coast Engineering
Good day!
hanson
news:BD94A0AD.2681A%salm...@sbcglobal.net...
> >>> "Muslims" are not the same as "islamist terrorists". Sadly some people
> >>> just don't appear to be able to grasp that concept - strange considering
> >>> that "generalizations" was a grade school subject (at least in NY).
> >>
> >> I understand that. But if you cannot tell the difference between
> >> venomous and non-venomous snakes, you lash out at all serpents.
> >
> > rather than learning the difference?
>
> That is unfortunate indeed. When streptococcus bacteria try to avoid the
> immune system by imitating heart tissue, you end up getting rheumatic fever.
> Fortunately, there are markers on our islamic terrorists that sometimes are
> easy to spot by our immune system, Homeland Security. Unfortunately,
> Homeland security may cause a figurative rheumatic fever.
> Bill
>
Bill, good analogy, man. Even profound in some respects.
You just demonstrated by your example how self-similar
the world, nature, is over vast orders of magnitude, in scale
and in complexity. The Self-similarity concept is a badly
neglected tool in modeling nature, particularly in physics.
Which is why we are stuck in the cul des sac of relativity.........
robert j. kolker
Tim Eastham wrote:
>
> "Wasn't Esau Jacob's brother?" [This is] the Lord's declaration. "Even
> so, I loved Jacob, 3 but I hated Esau. I turned his mountains into a
> wasteland, and [gave] his inheritance to the desert jackals."
First Jacob screws his brother out of the blessing, then God pisses on
the head of poor Esau. What a nice bunch.
Bob Kolker
Mark Fergerson
> Michael <mb...@light-deletedashtodash-houseoptics.com> wrote:
>
> Combining the two following paragraphs:
>
>
>>I'd quibble with your notion of "recent"--Islam dates from ~571, making it
>>1500 years old, versus 2004 for christendom.... not such a broad time gap
>>as you imply
>
>
>>Hmmm.... you seem to have forgotten about the inquisition. It's a
>>relatively recent phenomenon that criticizing a Christian church isn't a
>>sort path to burning at the stake....
>
>
> And then doing a bit of math one will notice that the inquisition dates
> back to a time at which Christianity was as old as Islam is now ... one
> just can't help wondering if religions tend to go through such a phase
> at a certain time ... most probably though this is a mere coincidence.
That was exactly my fucking POINT!
Thank you for "getting it".
Mark L. Fergerson
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
few history books the claim that the crusades main positive
contribution to the development of Europe was keeping a significant
fraction of the knighthood (especially the adventurous hothead ones)
occupied elsewhere.
Repeating Rifle
Lo...@mysig.foremail wrote on 10/15/04 3:31 AM:
> The same year as the end of the Hundred Years War saw an islamic
> army use a 1,200lb cannon ball to breach the walls of Constantinople.
> That was in 1453
I calculate that such a ball, if made out of solid iron would be
approximately 20 inches in diameter. That is a rather prodigous ball, and
the ordinance to fire it would also be prodigious. Manufacturing it would
also be at least job and a half.
Bill
Mark Fergerson
> On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 02:11:18 -0700, Mark Fergerson wrote:
>
>
>>But then, critical discourse is
>>rather strongly discouraged within Islam,
> !!
Yup. Note that this is not an exclusive criticism of Islam; it
applies to any religion at the appropriate stage in its development. If
you disagree, let's critically examine said verses.
>> Write a book making fun of the tenets of any Xtian church today, and
>>what happens? You make some money, and the churches go on as if nothing
>>happened. But, look what happened to the author of _The Satanic Verses_;
>>there's a literal price on his head.
> Oh I see now what you mean by "critical discourse."
Don't go all defensive-reflexive on me. BTW I've finally found a copy
of it (secondhand; I'm cheap) and read it and see why Rushdie is under
death sentence. Fair warning; if you fear the tainting of your faith,
read no farther, because I'm going to tell you some of what I got from it.
Rushdie makes exactly the same kind of critical observations of
several of Islam's foundations that would have earned a Xtian a death
sentence if the latter had written his criticisms during the
Reformation, which is when Xtianity was as old as Islam is now, for the
same reasons.
Granted, said criticisms are not very artfully hidden in a storyline
that reads like a bizarre cross between James Joyce and Dr. Seuss. The
titular ones are historical events cited within the Q'uran itself, and
basically point out the same flaw in Islam that exists within any
religion; when a prophet makes blatantly inaccurate or contradictory
statements allegedly originating from a deity, one must take the
proffered resolution (or lack of one) on faith and not concern oneself
with consistency.
Consistency is not said to be the "hobgoblin of little minds"* for
nothing; it facilitates crowd control (politics) by keeping people from
examining too closely the irrational pronouncements of their leaders.
Hence, anyone who insists on consistency risks overturning the power
base of said leaders and must be suppressed by any means. Ridiculing
such persons is one way, but killing them was always preferred.
* The complete quote is "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of
little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
Ralph Waldo Emerson, in _Self-Reliance_
Note that Ralphie didn't distinguish between "foolish" and "wise"
consistency. He didn't dare.
Mark L. Fergerson
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>with occupying a bunch of populated cities.
>
On the contrary. The Mongol hordes did overran (quite swiftly, too)
the whole Eastern part of the Muslim territory. Including (though not
limited to) Persia and Mesopothamia (today's Iraq). Big, densely
populated, rich territory with some of the biggest cities in the world
(at that time). Millions of square miles, many millions of people.
At the same time, the crusaders were desperately clinging to a narrow
strip of land along the Mediterrenean shore and even taking Damascus
was entirely beyond their reach. As for tackling the main Muslim
centers, such as Bagdad or Cairo, they couldn't even dream about it.
robert j. kolker
Mark Fergerson wrote:
Yup. Note that this is not an exclusive criticism of Islam; it applies
> to any religion at the appropriate stage in its development. If you
> disagree, let's critically examine said verses.
Islam went through an intellectually liberal phase between the 8-th and
12-th century common era. They had there moments of brilliance and they
extinguished them. Now Islam is dark.
Catholicism did not achieve that degree of enlightenment until the
thirteen century common era. Thomas Acquinas combined the best of
Aristotle to the worst of Catholicism to make it less toxic.
Bob Kolker
.
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu <mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> says...
You are comparing occupying a huge unpopulated arctic wasteland
robert j. kolker
Mark Fergerson wrote:
>
> That was exactly my fucking POINT!
>
> Thank you for "getting it".
You mean we have to wait another five hundred years for Islam to be
properly detoxified? In an age of technology and WMD-s I doubt if we
have the time.
Bob Kolker
Mark Fergerson
> Mark Fergerson wrote:
One could hope that they might learn from others' examples.
Mark L. Fergerson
Repeating Rifle
now...@nowhere.net wrote on 10/15/04 5:26 PM:
Jacob wrote the book.
Bill
John Savard
wrote, in part:
> One could hope that they might learn from others' examples.
But those *others* aren't Muslims. How can they learn anything from
those who are groping about in darkness, outside the center of
civilization and enlightenment?
Certainly not everyone in the Muslim world feels that way; right now,
though, the bigots have the upper hand, and speaking up against
fanaticism is not safe, in most of the Islamic world.
And where Islamic fanaticism is reined in somewhat, it is usually by
strong dictatorships that also cause problems.
Bright young people in the Islamic world who have interests lying
outside religion end up needing to study abroad. This is an option only
for the rich, and it lands them in the middle of countries where they
are distrusted because of their fanatical brethren.
It's easy to find money in Saudi Arabia for madrassas in Pakistan, but
raising money for real universities in the Islamic world instead seems
to be much harder.
Those who are learning from others' examples have no leverage to
constrain the behavior of those that aren't.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
John Savard
<now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>You mean we have to wait another five hundred years for Islam to be
>properly detoxified? In an age of technology and WMD-s I doubt if we
>have the time.
That's the tragedy.
We don't have the time...
but on the other hand, since our ancestors of hundreds of years ago were
just as bad, and the social environment of the Islamic world is similar,
it isn't the *fault* of Muslims that so many of them are bigoted against
non-Muslims.
And if we can't _blame_ them for not having the kind of government that
we do, that inculates in children respect for people of different
faiths, so that terrorism is further down the Gaussian tail, how do we
justify the inevitable unpleasantness involved in taking over the reins
of governance for the Islamic world?
In order to survive ourselves, we have to act in ways that will hurt
some other people who are not bad people. It is a good thing that this
is difficult for us to do. If it were easy, we could "justify" far too
much.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
robert j. kolker
Mark Fergerson wrote:
>
> One could hope that they might learn from others' examples.
The Others are the Great Satan. Forget it!
Bob Kolker
robert j. kolker
Repeating Rifle wrote:
> Jacob wrote the book.
Moses.
Bob Kolker
robert j. kolker
John Savard wrote:
> but on the other hand, since our ancestors of hundreds of years ago were
> just as bad, and the social environment of the Islamic world is similar,
> it isn't the *fault* of Muslims that so many of them are bigoted against
> non-Muslims.
Makes no difference. These people are dangerous. The existence of Islam
is incomptable with the existence of the rest of the human race. Either
Islam has to go, or we face a long dark future. The chant of the Muzzein
for the next thousand years. Ugh!
Make no excuses for your enemy nor show him any kindness and mercy for
he will take that as a sign of your weakness.
Bob Kolker
DrPostman
They still have some of the balls from the cannon that fired them
That thing was enormous, especially for it's day and age. It was
twenty-six feet (7.9 m) in length and eight inches (20 cm) in diameter
so you calculated the diameter correctly. One problem though is
that it took over 3 hours to reload and fire. At that rate they were
able to repair any damage done before the next ball hit. A fellow
named Urban from Hungary designed it and they called it the
Basilic.
Larry Huntley
"Is this thing on?" and, in sci.astro, message
news:kb63n0tbeth307pri...@4ax.com, prounounced:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:55:52 GMT, Repeating Rifle
> <salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>in article um8vm05rnbfk4gkn7...@4ax.com, DrPostman at
>>Lo...@mysig.foremail wrote on 10/15/04 3:31 AM:
>>
>>> The same year as the end of the Hundred Years War saw an islamic
>>> army use a 1,200lb cannon ball to breach the walls of Constantinople.
>>> That was in 1453
>>
>>I calculate that such a ball, if made out of solid iron would be
>>approximately 20 inches in diameter. That is a rather prodigous ball,
>>and the ordinance to fire it would also be prodigious. Manufacturing it
>>would also be at least job and a half.
>>
>
>
> They still have some of the balls from the cannon that fired them
> That thing was enormous, especially for it's day and age. It was
> twenty-six feet (7.9 m) in length and eight inches (20 cm) in diameter
(30 in., 75 cm; see below)
> so you calculated the diameter correctly. One problem though is
> that it took over 3 hours to reload and fire. At that rate they were
> able to repair any damage done before the next ball hit. A fellow
> named Urban from Hungary designed it and they called it the
> Basilic.
From: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Fall_of_Constantinople
The Ottomans employed a Hungarian engineer called Urban who was a
specialist in the construction of cannons, which were still rela-
tively new weapons. He built an enormous cannon, nearly twenty-seven
feet (more than 8 m) in length and 2.5 feet (about 75 cm) in diameter,
which could fire a 1200 lb (544 kg) ball as far as one mile. It was
dubbed "the Basilic". Although the Byzantines also had cannons, they
were much smaller and their recoil tended to damage their own walls.
Urban's cannon had several drawbacks, however. It could hardly hit
anything, not even as large as Constantinople; it took three hours to
reload; the cannon balls were in very short supply; and the cannon
collapsed under its own recoil after six weeks.
The original Big Fucking Gun.
- L
--
Larry Huntley Beaverton, Oregon
Skep-Ti-Cult® Member #130-978649-969 http://www.skepticult.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On May 14, 2004, alcha...@yahoo.com (Edmond Wollmann) wrote in
alt.astrology, message
news:35325a08.04051...@posting.google.com:
> Would you like me to yank your internet account now or later?
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:08:29 -0400, "robert j. kolker"
><now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>
>>properly detoxified? In an age of technology and WMD-s I doubt if we
>>have the time.
>
>
>We don't have the time...
>
>just as bad, and the social environment of the Islamic world is similar,
>it isn't the *fault* of Muslims that so many of them are bigoted against
>non-Muslims.
Indeed. It is not an issue of "fault".
>
>And if we can't _blame_ them for not having the kind of government that
>we do, that inculates in children respect for people of different
>faiths, so that terrorism is further down the Gaussian tail, how do we
>justify the inevitable unpleasantness involved in taking over the reins
>of governance for the Islamic world?
>
By considering the alternatives.
>In order to survive ourselves, we have to act in ways that will hurt
>some other people who are not bad people. It is a good thing that this
>is difficult for us to do. If it were easy, we could "justify" far too
>much.
>
True, very true.
robert j. kolker
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
> True, very true.
Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all. Not me. If
someone put a button in front of me and said "push it and all the
Moslems will dissapear. Men women and children." I would push it in a
New York Minute. No, I would push it even faster.
Bob Kolker
Tom McDonald
You're waiting for a nice, anonymous, guiltless, bloodless
button? Which is unreal, and can't be real? THEN you'd be a hero?
How many Muslim infant girls have you offed today? Last week?
Since 9/11? Show us all your heroism and lack of cowardice
and lack of conscience with real acts, not airy-fairy bullshit.
--
Tom McDonald
http://webpages.charter.net/tsmac/tmcdonald2672/
Thomas Lee Elifritz
"robert j. kolker" wrote:
> Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all. Not me. If
> someone put a button in front of me and said "push it and all the
> Moslems will dissapear. Men women and children." I would push it in a
> New York Minute. No, I would push it even faster.
That will be much easier than rounding them up, shipping them off to
concentration camps, gassing them all, and then shoving their bodies into
ovens. I'm surprised nobody thought of that earlier.
"the folks back home is a countin' on ya, and by golly, we ain't about to
let 'em down. Tell ya somethin' else - if this button thing turns out to
be half as important as I figure it just might be, I'd say that you're
all in line for some important promotions an' personal citations when
this thing's over with. That goes for every last one of ya, regardless of
your race, color, or your creed."
Thomas Lee Elifritz
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>
>
>mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
>
>>
>> True, very true.
>
No, not necessarily so. Conscience makes us consider possible
consequences of our actions. Reason makes us consider possible
consequences of our inactions, as well. The out of "if I'm not doing
anything, I'm not responsible for anything" is dumb.
There is a big difference between being sorry, at times, for things
you have to do, as opposed to deciding not to do anything you may be
sorry for. The first is maturity, the second is childishness.
Repeating Rifle
Lo...@mysig.foremail wrote on 10/16/04 3:12 PM:
> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:55:52 GMT, Repeating Rifle
> <salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> in article um8vm05rnbfk4gkn7...@4ax.com, DrPostman at
>> Lo...@mysig.foremail wrote on 10/15/04 3:31 AM:
>>
>>> The same year as the end of the Hundred Years War saw an islamic
>>> army use a 1,200lb cannon ball to breach the walls of Constantinople.
>>> That was in 1453
>>
>> I calculate that such a ball, if made out of solid iron would be
>> approximately 20 inches in diameter. That is a rather prodigous ball, and
>> the ordinance to fire it would also be prodigious. Manufacturing it would
>> also be at least job and a half.
>>
>> Bill
>
>
> They still have some of the balls from the cannon that fired them
> That thing was enormous, especially for it's day and age. It was
> twenty-six feet (7.9 m) in length and eight inches (20 cm) in diameter
> so you calculated the diameter correctly. One problem though is
> that it took over 3 hours to reload and fire. At that rate they were
> able to repair any damage done before the next ball hit. A fellow
> named Urban from Hungary designed it and they called it the
> Basilic.
>
I calculated a diameter of 20 INCHES or 51 cm if you wish. I might even be
able to lift a 20 cm ball all by myself.
Bill
Gregory L. Hansen
Including some that I know and care about. I'd rather you didn't push the
button.
--
"The average person, during a single day, deposits in his or her underwear
an amount of fecal bacteria equal to the weight of a quarter of a peanut."
-- Dr. Robert Buckman, Human Wildlife, p119.
hanson
news:2te748F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all.
> Not me. If someone put a button in front of me and said
> "push it and all the Moslems will dissapear. Men women
> and children." I would push it in a New York Minute.
> No, I would push it even faster.
> Bob Kolker
>
.....ahahaha........AHAHAHAHA......ahahaha........
Bob, the ragheads have given you a mindfuck. Galore!....
They are winning the game, dude....they are getting to you
.....in your fantasy and in your dreams......ahahaha.........
But listen, Bob, here's the problem. See, if the same ratio
of them has the same notion as you have then you are in
deep DEEP shit, Bob. ....Deep, deep, Bob.....ahahahaha......
See, there're ~1.3 Billion Muslims but only ~13 million Jews,
Can you see how many, many more button they will push?
.......ahahahaha......
So, sooner or later Bob, the awful choice will confront you,
where faith will present you with its cruel demands, for you
to consider: ...."if you can't beat'em...then JOIN'em"
...it's coming, Bob, it's coming:......AHAHAHA......ahahahaha
** Bob Kolker in a turban, venting his ass 5 times a day**
AHAHAHAHAHA........ahahahaha......ahahahahaha......
But, Bob, look at the bright side: getting blown and fucked
by 72 lovely huris instead of getting yelled at by a mean
and ugly yenta.....ahahahaha....something to consider, Bob!
....after all, wouldn't THAT be a much better choice for you
who claims to have no conscience? Go for it Bob...72...72....
......ahahahaha.....HAHAHAHA...ahahahanson
** Bob Kolker in a turban, venting his ass 5 times a day**
ahahahaha...... WHAT A SIGHT!........AHAHAHAHAHA......
oye weh!
vonroach
>In article <41714137...@news.ecn.ab.ca>, jsa...@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) writes:
>>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 20:08:29 -0400, "robert j. kolker"
>><now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>>
Typical exchange between egghead brain-washed children. Can't imagine
why it is entered here? What mm and rk don't know is that territorial
rights and harmony with neighbors comes from strength, not appeasement
- any time, any place from primordial earth onward. This is a
pragmatic law of natural history.
Mohammed Farooq
"robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>> Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all. Not me. If
>> someone put a button in front of me and said "push it and all the
>> Moslems will dissapear. Men women and children." I would push it in
a
>> New York Minute. No, I would push it even faster.
>
>> Bob Kolker
[hanson]
>......ahahaha........AHAHAHAHA......ahahaha........
>Bob, the ragheads have given you a mindfuck. Galore!....
>They are winning the game, dude....they are getting to you
>......in your fantasy and in your dreams......ahahaha.........
Hanson,
The dimwit has fallen in love with them...this is what I call
infatuation. Can you remind the idiot of the days, when the signs in
the country where he currently lives after being expelled from Eastern
Europe proclaimed "J**s and Dogs not Welcomed."(Source:Encyclopedia
Britannica)?
Not that his ilk his bad, but perhaps Kolker is an example of a black
sheep spoiling the whole flock.
Bob Cain
@ . wrote:
> mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu <mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu> says...
>
>
>>>The Crusades were a lot bigger than you make them out to be.
>>>
>>
>>No, they were not. Whether you judge by forces involved, scope and
>>significance of territories fought over, or long term strategic and
>>political impact, the Crusades were a second rate event.
>
>
> Political impact? The Islamic world is still talking about them.
That's fairly recent. While they were happening, al Islam
was pretty much oblivious to it. They noticed it about the
way horses notice flys.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."
A. Einstein
hanson
news:66756669.04101...@posting.google.com...> >> news:2te748F...@uni-berlin.de...
> >> Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all. Not me. If
> >> someone put a button in front of me and said "push it and all the
> >> Moslems will dissapear. Men women and children." I would push it in
> >> a New York Minute. No, I would push it even faster.
> >> Bob Kolker
>
> [hanson]
> >......ahahaha........AHAHAHAHA......ahahaha........
> >Bob, the ragheads have given you a mindfuck. Galore!....
> >They are winning the game, dude....they are getting to you
> > But listen, Bob, here's the problem. See, if the same ratio
> > of them has the same notion as you have then you are in
> > deep DEEP shit, Bob. ....Deep, deep, Bob.....ahahahaha......
> > See, there're ~1.3 Billion Muslims but only ~13 million Jews,
> > Can you see how many, many more button they will push?
> .......ahahahaha......
> > So, sooner or later Bob, the awful choice will confront you,
> > where faith will present you with its cruel demands, for you
> > to consider: ...."if you can't beat'em...then JOIN'em"
> > ...it's coming, Bob, it's coming:......AHAHAHA......ahahahaha
> > ** Bob Kolker in a turban, venting his ass 5 times a day**
> > AHAHAHAHAHA........ahahahaha......ahahahahaha......
> > But, Bob, look at the bright side: getting blown and fucked
> > by 72 lovely huris instead of getting yelled at by a mean
> > and ugly yenta.....ahahahaha....something to consider, Bob!
> > ....after all, wouldn't THAT be a much better choice for you
> > who claims to have no conscience? Go for it Bob...72...72....
> >
> >
> > ahahahaha...... WHAT A SIGHT!........AHAHAHAHAHA......
> > oye weh!
>
[Farooq to (1)]
> Hanson,
> The dimwit [Kolker] has fallen in love with them...this is what I call
> infatuation. Can you remind the idiot of the days, when the signs in
> the country where he currently lives after being expelled from Eastern
> Europe proclaimed "J**s and Dogs not Welcomed."
> (Source:Encyclopedia Britannica)?
> Not that his ilk his bad, but perhaps Kolker is an example of a black
> sheep spoiling the whole flock.
>
ahahahaha........now, that is almost as funny as Kolker's rant.
Obviously, Farooq, your post shows that you don't have much
more love for Kolker's folks then they have for yours.....ahahahaha...
as is seen in your revealing comments of "his ilk" and you writing
"J**s" instead of "Jews"......ahahahahaha......AHAHAHAHA..........
But Farooq, don't kid yourself, any "what was back then" won't
impress Bob, for in his ancestral Germany they have a proverb
that says: "Für das Gewesene gibt der Jude nichts"....
So, why should a small event like "expelling" or a sign that says
"J**s and Dogs not Welcomed.", way back when, bug grandpa Kolker?
There is "no reminding him" necessary. Bob knows & he don't care.
Bob knows that since ever God has chosen them, their neighbors or
host countries have chosen them at least 35 times for periodic and
epic expulsions and barbequing of their collective ass.
I wonder, if or how many of these events got started by the Bob's
amongst them who sang such inflammatory shit, like Bob does, and
created by/with and thru' it the necessary Anti-Semitism that lead
to such events and invited encores.
However to be fair, let us ask the larger question. How many times
did the Muslims and the Xians choose each other? I bet there won't
be much of a difference. The only discernable difference is that the
Jews are so loud about and draw attention to themselves.
So, basically, God shows that ALL organized religion is EVIL in that
*** there is only one scene and that is obscene, of which
*** there is only one version and that is perversion,
as is written in the stars & carved in every line of our palms that its
*** Heresy, Blasphemy, Sacrilege, Irreverence and Profanity
*** in any convenient sequence, that are the 5 true paths to heaven.
Fuck! yeah!
................ahahahaha......AHAHAHAHA.......ahahahanson
DrPostman
I cyber corrected. I sure would have loved to see that thing
fire a shot or two.
DrPostman
<salm...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I should not post when I'm sleepy.
robert j. kolker
Bob Cain wrote:
>
> That's fairly recent. While they were happening, al Islam was pretty
> much oblivious to it. They noticed it about the way horses notice flys.
The Islamic radicals have a 1000 year old grudge against Chrisendom. It
is an active grudge leading to violence on their part. They are
incapable of letting bygones be bygones, hence they are dangerous to the
rest of us.
Bob Kolker
jmfb...@aol.com
"robert j. kolker" <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>
>
>Bob Cain wrote:
>
>>
>> That's fairly recent. While they were happening, al Islam was pretty
>> much oblivious to it. They noticed it about the way horses notice flys.
>
>The Islamic radicals
The radicals of _today_.
> ...have a 1000 year old grudge against Chrisendom.
This is a perfect sales pitch to justify their intent to
destroy western civilization. Nobody will question what
people thought 1000 years ago, including the Christians.
> ..It
>is an active grudge leading to violence on their part.
It is a sales pitch that the ideologues also came to believe to be
true.
> .. They are
>incapable of letting bygones be bygones, hence they are dangerous to the
>rest of us.
Sigh! These killers are creating reasons to kill. Did you know
that the USofA has existed for 500 years because we were killing
Muslims back then? Western civilization haibutally kills Muslim
babies and drinks their blood. There are more very bizarre
reasons to kill non-Arabs.
The Taliban wanted things to go back to how it used to be; except
a comparison show that their interpretation is different from
the way it really was. It seemed that they picked all the
negatives of throughout the history of Islam and ignored
the positives.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
John Savard
<now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>Make no excuses for your enemy nor show him any kindness and mercy for
>he will take that as a sign of your weakness.
Despite the very poor historical showing of Islam, presumably it is not
the case that all Muslims are our enemies.
Although the liberals are right about that, and it is *even* the case
that not all Sunni and all Shi'a are our enemies, the latter is,
naturally, harder to credit.
Even some Muslims who are willing to live peacefully side-by-side with
non-Muslims generally, of course, view Israel the same way Americans
would a Rhode Island under Russian or Chinese occupation. It will take a
_lot_ of patient explaining to get them to see otherwise.
One cannot talk of stopping people from being Muslims, or even from
being Quran-believing Muslims, for that would be an offence against the
First Amendment, which has decreed that none shall dare to make laws
that exalt one church over another. But to accept that the Islamic world
presents a sufficient danger that its independence must be curtailed,
and the education of its children be closely monitored and controlled,
would seem to be lawful.
After a hundred years of colonial rule, in which the part of the day
students spend on other than legitimate academic subjects is used for
targeted historical studies - learning about the families bereaved by
September 11, 2001, learning about the families in the Balkans whose
firstborn sons were taken for the Janissaries, learning about the
Buddhists in Afghanistan who were murdered for their faith, learning
about Chinese people in Indonesia, learning about the violence in India
leading up to its independence - then, it may be possible to restore
independence to the Islamic world, since by then a majority of its
people would be disposed to be responsible world citizens.
Of course, it hardly takes many terrorists to cause immense damage.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
robert j. kolker
John Savard wrote:
> Despite the very poor historical showing of Islam, presumably it is not
> the case that all Muslims are our enemies.
Since we do control the foreign territories where Moslems reside we are
not in a positition to separate the good ones from the bad ones. The
obvious solution is to kill them all and let Allah sort out the good
from the bad.
In the United States we can expell the foreign born moslems to a
convenient killing field and vet the remaining ones.
>
> Although the liberals are right about that, and it is *even* the case
> that not all Sunni and all Shi'a are our enemies, the latter is,
> naturally, harder to credit.
>
> Even some Muslims who are willing to live peacefully side-by-side with
> non-Muslims generally, of course, view Israel the same way Americans
> would a Rhode Island under Russian or Chinese occupation. It will take a
> _lot_ of patient explaining to get them to see otherwise.
We live in an age of suitcase size A-Bombs and bilogical weapons. Do we
have the time to be patient? I doubt it.
>
> One cannot talk of stopping people from being Muslims, or even from
> being Quran-believing Muslims, for that would be an offence against the
> First Amendment, which has decreed that none shall dare to make laws
> that exalt one church over another. But to accept that the Islamic world
> presents a sufficient danger that its independence must be curtailed,
> and the education of its children be closely monitored and controlled,
> would seem to be lawful.
The first amendment is not a suicide pact. It can be modified.
>
> After a hundred years of colonial rule, in which the part of the day
> students spend on other than legitimate academic subjects is used for
> targeted historical studies - learning about the families bereaved by
> September 11, 2001, learning about the families in the Balkans whose
> firstborn sons were taken for the Janissaries, learning about the
> Buddhists in Afghanistan who were murdered for their faith, learning
> about Chinese people in Indonesia, learning about the violence in India
> leading up to its independence - then, it may be possible to restore
> independence to the Islamic world, since by then a majority of its
> people would be disposed to be responsible world citizens.
Aren't we being optomistic here. It may be possible for angels to fly
out of my ass, but I do not wish to wait to find out.
>
> Of course, it hardly takes many terrorists to cause immense damage.
Precisely. That is why we have to kill them all overseas and herd the
domestic Moslems into controlled areas where they can be watched very
carefully.
We can also take their youngest children to be raised properly and
sterilize the rest. The problem will be completely solved in about 70 years.
Bob Kolker
Tim Eastham
Malachi actually.
Tim Eastham
> West Coast Engineering wrote:
>
> > OK
> >
> > The is a GOD. He created everything in the universe. He is all
> > powerful, all knowing and all loving.
> >
> > He made us in his own image and likeness.
> >
> > Our main goal in life seems to be to get as much food, sex and money
> > as we can possibly get without having another human being kill us, put
> > us in prison or give us a fatal sexually transmitted disease but we
> > are made in the image of GOD?
>
> Then He's as fucked up as we are, which would explain a lot, no?
>
> > GOD appointed priests, rabbis, mullahs etc to be his personal
> > representatives. They know more about GOD than the rest of us do. They
> > are smarter than we are. GOD speaks to them and they relay what he
> > says to us.
>
> And we know this only because they say so.
>
> > Somehow, GOD never told them how to make money, so we need to provide
> > it. GOD is always running out of money. GOD must have failed ECONOMICS
> > 101. I remember him. He was the short guy with the wart on his nose in
> > the back of the classroom.
>
> Anyone who can create an entire Universe out of thought (not to
> mention getting the numerical value of pi wrong _twice_) can't be
> bothered to concern Himself with mere bookkeeping.
>
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/494.asp. There are many other
articles on this very topic out on the web that make your PI statement
questionable.
> > Now GOD loves all of us. He set down 10 simple rules for us to live
> > by. Problem is, if we don't follow these rules, GOD made a really bad
> > place called HELL. It is filled with all the creatures that did not
> > follow the 10 rules. In HELL we burn for all eternity, but still, GOD
> > loves us.
>
> "Tough love".
>
> > GOD really loves us, and lets us go to the good place if we die for
> > him. He made living, breathing creatures and the greatest thing we can
> > do for him is die?
>
> Not quite; you must be prepared to kiss His ass eternally afterward.
>
> > Is there something wrong with all this or am I just stupid?
>
> Yes, no, in that order.
>
> Also, you might ask "If God is male, what does He use His penis for?"
>
> Mark L. Fergerson
Mark Fergerson
> Mark Fergerson <nu...@biz.ness> wrote in message news:<aRSbd.49044$Lo6.34942@fed1read03>...
>> Anyone who can create an entire Universe out of thought (not to
>>mention getting the numerical value of pi wrong _twice_) can't be
>>bothered to concern Himself with mere bookkeeping.
> http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/494.asp. There are many other
> articles on this very topic out on the web that make your PI statement
> questionable.
Questionable my ass. The contortions this site goes
through, including questionable reconstructions, that then
are called "abundantly clear" are ridiculous in themselves.
Just read the relevant text; there are no disclaimers.
Mark L. Fergerson
Gregory L. Hansen
Contortions, indeed. Does anyone remember what a sig-fig is? What is the
circumference of a molten sea with a diameter of ten cubits?
10 cubits * pi = 30 cubits
Not 31.415926..., not 31. There is one sig-fig in 10, the answer cannot
have more than one sig-fig. An answer of 31 would have gotten a point
taken off in a physics exam.
Even in modern days, among those that know how many sig-figs to keep, it's
common to round a lot numbers for conversational purposes.
--
"We don't grow up hearing stories around the camp fire anymore about
cultural figures. Instead we get them from books, TV or movies, so the
characters that today provide us a common language are corporate
creatures" -- Rebecca Tushnet
John Savard
<now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>The
>obvious solution is to kill them all and let Allah sort out the good
>from the bad.
We shall not sink to the level of the evil ones among them.
To persuade others to join you in supporting a stricter approach to
Islamic misbehavior, the first thing one must do is convince others one
is not speaking purely out of bigotry against Muslims... just as someone
replying to one of your posts displayed that his comments were motivated
by bigotry against Jews.
Bigotry is unpersuasive; those who do not have it already will see no
reason why they should acquire it.
I think we should take a relatively hard line now precisely because, if
we fail to do what we can, and more terrorist outrages happen, our
patience could snap and we might do unnecessary things we will later
regret.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu
>On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 09:39:13 -0400, "robert j. kolker"
><now...@nowhere.net> wrote, in part:
>
>>The
>>obvious solution is to kill them all and let Allah sort out the good
>>from the bad.
>
>
>To persuade others to join you in supporting a stricter approach to
>Islamic misbehavior, the first thing one must do is convince others one
>is not speaking purely out of bigotry against Muslims... just as someone
>replying to one of your posts displayed that his comments were motivated
>by bigotry against Jews.
>
>Bigotry is unpersuasive; those who do not have it already will see no
>reason why they should acquire it.
>
>I think we should take a relatively hard line now precisely because, if
>we fail to do what we can, and more terrorist outrages happen, our
>patience could snap and we might do unnecessary things we will later
>regret.
>
Amanda
<snip>
> And then doing a bit of math one will notice that the inquisition dates
> back to a time at which Christianity was as old as Islam is now ... one
> just can't help wondering if religions tend to go through such a phase
> at a certain time ... most probably though this is a mere coincidence.
Not coincidence at all, in my opinion.
>
> Chris
Amanda
> In article <2te748F...@uni-berlin.de>,
> robert j. kolker <now...@nowhere.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> True, very true.
> >
> >Conscience doth make cowards of us all. Well almost all. Not me. If
> >someone put a button in front of me and said "push it and all the
> >Moslems will dissapear. Men women and children." I would push it in a
> >New York Minute. No, I would push it even faster.
> >
> >Bob Kolker
> >
> >
>
> Including some that I know and care about. I'd rather you didn't push the
> button.
I bet he won't if he gets the opportunity; he just like talking about it, it seems.
Amanda
<snip>
>
> It's easy to find money in Saudi Arabia for madrassas in Pakistan, but
> raising money for real universities in the Islamic world instead seems
> to be much harder.
More than *harder*. It seems impoosible. Sad situation. I recently
came across an artilce, I think in Times magazineabou an Iraqui father
who sent his son abraod to study so that he would be away during US
invasion. I guess, he didn't have enough money to send him too far
(the west) and so the boy came back with long beard, wearing that long
thing. As the family was watching movies (on TV or so), everytime
there is a kissing scence, he would get up and leave, according to the
father. Some Muslim parents (in third world non-Muslim coutries like
Thailand, for example) who can't afford to send the kids far send
their children to Islamic Universities (which btw seem to be springing
up everywhere) in India or so hoping that the kids would come back
with a good college education but still keeping their faith. Believe
it or not, most of these parents have no clue the danger they are
puting their children in as not enough news (of different sources) is
available to them.
>
> Those who are learning from others' examples have no leverage to
> constrain the behavior of those that aren't.
>
> John Savard
> http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
Amanda
> Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>
> >
> > I think a lot of the "Islamist terrorist" thing is an Arab thing, too.
>
> Mohammed Attah who lead the capture of one of the planes from Logan
> Airport in Boston was Egyptian. Several of the Al Quedah operatives are
> (or were) Egyptian. So it is not just an Arab thing.
Oh..please. Are you saying that these Egyptians are not Arab by blood and culture?
>
> Bob Kolker
Amanda
> Mark Fergerson <nu...@biz.ness> wrote:
>
> > Also, try to remember that the Crusades were responses to the spread of
> > Islam by the sword.
> If I'm not totally mistaken it was more of a response to the expansion
> of several peoples/tribes and factually less religiosly motivatet.
You are not mistaken. I was surprised at his claim since there is
enough evidence from unbiased sources that religion was not the reson.
> The
> Vatikan presented the whole thing as a threatening of the holy land by
> barbarians in order to provoke enough response from european rulers.
>
<snip>
Amanda
> Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> > Arab culture extends beyond Saudi Arabia.
>
> The culture of Egypt is not Arabic, even though both are Islamic countries.
It is more Arabic than you think.
>
> Bob Kolker
>
> >
> >
markzoom
> > "Muslims" are not the same as "islamist terrorists". Sadly some people
> > just don't appear to be able to grasp that concept - strange considering
> > that "generalizations" was a grade school subject (at least in NY).
>
> I understand that. But if you cannot tell the difference between venomous
> and non-venomous snakes, you lash out at all serpents.
The effect being that you make enemies of all serpents instead of
getting the non-venemous serpents to point out the venemous ones....
>
> Bill
Ioannis
[sip]
> Who made the god?
Your ancestors did. It's sociology 101, Bob. And now that most of this
religious crap is out, *precisely* because it went unchecked, nature and
society had to invent ways to keep the "believers" under control. And
guess who's doing the checking.
These guys multiply faster than roaches. I'd give you, oh, let's say,
10-20 more years max till those oil rich guys over there manage to get
their hands on some viable nukes in exchange for a couple of oil-wells.
Better find ways to press this button, fast, lest they push it first. If
I were you, I'd form a coalition with Uncle Al and start working on a
"cure", ASAP.
> Bob Kolker
--
I. N. Galidakis --- http://users.forthnet.gr/ath/jgal/
starburst
>>If I'm not totally mistaken it was more of a response to the expansion
>>of several peoples/tribes and factually less religiosly motivatet.
>
>
>
> You are not mistaken. I was surprised at his claim since there is
> enough evidence from unbiased sources that religion was not the reson.
Well, it *was*, sort of. Urban called the 1st crusade in response to an
appeal from Constantinople, and partly in an effort to ease prevailing
anger at the papacy over the disastrous fight between pope Gregory VII
and emperor Henry IV of Germany. The crusade was ostensibly to protect
pilgrims going to the holy land and to prevent the push northward by the
Caliphate that controlled Palestine. Religious fervor was the reason the
Franks chose to answer the call.
But we should also observe that following the successful 1st crusade and
the establishment of the Christian kingdom of Jerusalem, Muslims and
Christians lived in comparative peace for many decades. It is
interesting to read accounts of the crusaders from the point of view of
the muslims, who were far more literate on the whole, and far cleaner,
than the crusaders were. There is a noticeable lack of venom in their
recollections.
Chris