Moon ice is worth <$1.6 million trillion
Brad Guth
Obviously not as any product that’s delivered to us from the moon, but
instead that’s what it’s worth to us for simply existing there as is,
because that means we don't have to pay anything or further delay
anything because of water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas solid or not, such
asteroids of rare elements are extremely interesting to William Mook
and many if us (including myself), except for that part of us each
being a century dead before the first of any other asteroid is ever
artificially captured in a polar LEO, systematically taken apart and
its supposed good stuff delivered to Earth, at perhaps being worth as
little as $1M/ kg.
On the other hand, what can be realistically accomplished with our
moon(Selene) and within this decade (on loot that's borrowed from
China none the less)?
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most efficient orbital logistics option, as well as
one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is robotic or
humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass and already in a
stable orbit as is, as well as having such a usable L1 that’s mutually
gateway beneficial (especially once there’s a lunar space elevator
established) is perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable
enough materials costing us less than $1000/kg, and eventually as
little as $10/kg.
According to everything from our NASA/Apollo era and their supposed
expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation to fret
over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert pastel gray and
otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly anything gets
electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and whatever other
passing debris are a non-issue, and loads of hot sodium that's
surrounding our moon isn't even a problem worth mentioning, and
apparently it's even icy cold while working that trek between Earth
and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science of being fully solar
illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts off). So what could
possibly be more ideal than that? (unlimited hot sunlight that's
mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the moon as well as
coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than freezing cold for
everything else, is nothing but super terrific thermodynamic physics
on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further informed by our NASA approved
infomercial science that 40 of those Northern polar craters upon of
our moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of raw surface ice
that's immune to the laws of physics, as extremely frozen h2o
coexisting at an extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar none the less, and yet
there has never been any previously observed hint of such h2o vapors,
as for suggesting at any thin atmosphere evolving as ever escaping or
emerging out of any of those craters, though at the same time and as
of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
saturation of sodium vapor that's venting or evaporating and thus
extensively surrounding and comet like trailing away from our moon,
with not a hint of any h2o or other trace indicators within any of
that.
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as liquid nitrogen, co2 or perhaps even liquid
hydrogen acting as a cap or lid, and yet apparently our considerably
more spendy and technologically advanced LRO mission can't seem to
replicate squat on behalf of any of that supposed discovery of such
volumes of lunar ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again -
off again' science of our NASA that gets to use those conditional laws
of physics and obfuscate as to whatever they don't like, and otherwise
always receiving as much public funded mainstream hype on demand as
they need.
Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
shaded depths that’ll offer the same 25 K cryogenic environment,
whereas perhaps there's at least another billion cubic meters worth of
such hocus-pocus hidden ice within those craters as well. That's
actually still not very much ice, but at the real cost of perhaps $1M/
kg as safely fly-by-rocket imported from Earth and otherwise safely
stored on the moon for future use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of
existing ice becomes worth $1.6 million trillion (not to mention the
human safety advantages of our not having to manage any of the complex
and risky fly-by-rocket performed logistics of getting ourselves to/
from that naked surface in order to transfer and build up whatever
cache of water/ice).
Even when it’s robotic-ally accomplished for getting such water
delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
$10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth $16,000
trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing basalt
would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of going
after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/radioactive
elements.
BradGuth Blog and Google document pages:
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Skybuck Flying
materials... maybe they even have some water :)
Maybe comets could be used for intersteller travel to provide any necessary
water ;) :)
Bye,
Skybuck =D
bert
wrote:
Best to keep in mind that's Italian ice if Mafia NASA gets back to the
moon. TreBert
Skybuck Flying
Is it possible to own a comet or asteroid ? ;)
Bye,
Skybuck =D
Sjouke Burry
money back if you are not satisfied.
Brad Guth
wrote:
Yes in deed, nothing is better suited for interstellar treks than an
icy asteroid that has still got a bit a core energy plus loaded with
all sorts nifty minerals, especially if were headed in the right
direction to begin with, and otherwise having obtained 100+ km worth
of thick ice on deck that’s highly insulative as well as easily
protecting our frail DNA. (as little as one km of ice would actually
be sufficient as long as that sucker didn’t encounter anything very
big, although surviving sufficiently under its robust crust would
probably suffice).
Our personal asteroid or binary planetoid of 7.35e22 kg that’s
extremely nearby and supposedly still icy in fully shaded places, is
just doing a fine job of keeping our Eden/Earth a little extra toasty
warm from the inside out, as well as global tectonic/seismic modulated
and triggering things active enough to keep us on our toes, as well as
thawing us out from the last ice-age this planet w/moon is ever going
to see.
Establishing my LSE-CM/ISS would also resolve our needs for getting
nasty stuff safely transferred to the lunar surface where it becomes
either re-utilized, neutralized and/or converted by solar and cosmic
energy or simply meteor pulverized into something else.
There’s also the need for a safe off-world biohazard and otherwise a
failsafe toxic chemical dump site (including all of those mercury
contaminated lamps) that might as well also accommodate our spent
nuclear fuel that no one in their right mind wants in their backyard
(similar to coal fly ash that’s toxic as hell and even redioactive).
Moon crypts for those of us that want our remains situated as far off-
world as affordably doable seems like another ideal win-win,
especially nifty once the LSE-CM/ISS makes such deliveries to/from the
lunar surface literally dirt cheap.
Getting whatever finished products off the moon and safely deployed
towards harmlessly encountering Earth (such as within a protective
basalt ceramic sphere that would easily survive the thermal dynamics
of reentry) is simply whiz-bang doable by any number of alternatives.
On the other hand, perhaps China has other plans for our moon and its
L1.
~ BG
Brad Guth
wrote:
China is about ready to prove that they own our moon(Selene). Does
that count?
~ BG
Brad Guth
Using our icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our local gateway
for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should include the
planet Venus, is not something we can afford to ignore unless we can
all master the Mandarin language and accept their customs.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any product that’s delivered to us from the moon, but
instead that’s what it’s worth to us for simply existing there as is,
because that means we don't have to pay anything or further delay
anything because of water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas solid or not isn’t the
primary factor, whereas instead such asteroids of rare and valuable
elements are extremely interesting to William Mook and many if us
(including myself), except for that part of us each being a century
dead before the first of any other asteroid is ever artificially
captured in a polar LEO, systematically taken apart and its supposed
good stuff delivered to Earth, at perhaps being worth as little as
$1M/ kg is perhaps not worth holding our breath.
On the other hand, what can be realistically accomplished with our
moon(Selene) and within this decade (on loot that's borrowed from
China none the less)?
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most efficient orbital logistics option, as well as
one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is robotic or
humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass and already in a
stable orbit as is, as well as having such a usable L1 that’s mutually
gateway beneficial (especially once there’s a lunar space elevator
established) is perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable
enough materials costing us less than $1000/kg, and eventually as
little as $10/kg.
According to everything from our wise old NASA/Apollo era and their
supposed expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation
to fret over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert pastel colorless
gray and otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly
anything gets electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and
whatever other passing debris are a non-issue, and loads of hot sodium
that's surrounding our moon isn't even a problem worth mentioning, and
apparently it's even icy cold while working that trek between Earth
and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science of being fully solar
illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts off). So what could
possibly be more ideal than that? (unlimited hot sunlight that's
mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the moon as well as
coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than freezing cold for
everything else, is nothing but super terrific thermodynamic physics
on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further mainstream informed by our NASA
approved infomercial science that 40 of those Northern polar craters
upon of our moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of raw
surface ice that's immune to the laws of physics, as extremely frozen
h2o coexisting at the extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar none the less, and
yet there has never been any previously observed hint of such h2o
vapors, as for suggesting at any thin atmosphere evolving as ever
escaping or emerging out of any of those polar craters, though at the
same time and as of more than a decade before we've extensively
documented the saturation of sodium vapor that's venting or
evaporating and thus extensively surrounding and comet like trailing
away from our moon, with not a hint of any h2o or other trace
indicators within any of that. Since we still have nothing situated
within Selene L1, it seems our best independent science can’t
objectively confirm or deny a damn thing, and our spendy LRO mission
seems a tad dysfunctional.
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having a layer of liquid nitrogen, solid co2 or
perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting as a transparent cap or lid, plus
otherwise most everything becomes a superconductor at 25 K which might
further explain as to how that otherwise naked ice has been protected
from subliming away, and yet apparently our considerably more spendy
and technologically advanced LRO mission still can't seem to replicate
squat on behalf of any of that supposed discovery of such hidden
volumes of lunar ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again -
off again' science smoke of our crack NASA that gets to use those
conditional laws of physics and selectively obfuscate as to whatever
they don't like, and otherwise always receiving as much public funded
mainstream hype on demand as they need, laughing all the time behind
the back of our President, BHO.
“The Meissner effect demonstrated by levitating a magnet above a
cuprate superconductor, which is cooled by liquid nitrogen”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnet_4.jpg
Not to mention that elements like water and ice are also diamagnetic,
and nitrogen is only at best worth –210 C(63 K) to begin with, whereas
those polar craters offer 26 K.
Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
shaded depths that by rights should offer the same 26 K cryogenic
environment, whereas perhaps there's at least another billion cubic
meters worth of such hocus-pocus hidden ice within those secondary
craters as well. That's actually still not very much ice, but at the
real all-inclusive cost of perhaps $1M/kg as safely fly-by-rocket
imported from Earth and otherwise safely stored on the moon for future
use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of existing ice becomes worth
$1.6 million trillion (not to mention the human safety advantages of
our not having to manage any of the complex and risky fly-by-rocket
performed logistics of getting ourselves to/from that naked surface in
order to transfer and build up whatever cache of water/ice, nor the
subsequent pollution and/or negative impact to our terrestrial
environment for having to launch that volume of water).
Even when it’s fully robotic-ally accomplished for getting such water
delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
$10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth $16,000
trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing basalt
would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of going
after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/radioactive
elements that should exist.
The eventual relocating of our moon(Selene) to Earth L1 should not in
of itself cause any loss of that supposed hidden ice, because the
basins of such polar craters should remain close to 26 K with our moon
having somewhat less seasonal tilt, as well as the side facing Earth
should become at least cold enough to sustain craters hosting liquid
nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even liquid radon shouldn’t be unexpected,
plus those craters situated within the perpetual circumference
terminator (as receiving no solar illumination or secondary IR from
Earth) should by rights fall within that same cryogenic realm of
hosting at least 35 K or something less heated (>25 K), giving those
Stirling solar energy conversions their thermal dynamic differential
of <365 K to work with, even though earthshine would otherwise be
considerable illumination to work by.
Hagar
"Brad Guth" <brad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
GuthBall, you really should lay off the weed for a spell ...
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> GuthBall, you really should lay off the weed for a spell ...
Of course your ideal world of 75% government and 25% private sector
that gets to pay for everything (including your Section-8 trailer park
existence) doesn't give a puck about doing anything with our moon,
except for doing all that you possibly can for topic/author stalking
and otherwise keeping others from achieving anything positive/
constructive pertaining to our moon or that of its L1. How typically
nice and thoughtful of your redneck self.
~ BG.
Skybuck Flying
Human spaceship travels through the galaxy, collects comets for water and
rare/valuable materials and maybe for power source.
Then suddenly one of the comets contains bad/dirty/mean alien lifeforms
which slip through the water filters, and quickly evolve into larger aliens,
maybe even gigant aliens killing all humans...
Or how about "clones" humans and pretend to be them ! LOL.
Or spaceship crashes into planet... humans wake up from hypersleep... some
dead, some alive, trying to figure out what the hell happened... then the
find out alien lifeforms onboard the spaceship/planet/asteroid (?) and the
fight for survival begins ?! ;)
Bye,
Skybuck ;) :)
Brad Guth
wrote:
The use of thick ice has many advantages, although our K12 and higher
educated parrots don't seem to have a clue.
Surviving under a few km of ice can be downright cozy, and otherwise
resource abundant. Major glaciers on Earth offer ice caves where the
geothermal heat and the subsequent water flow erosion has provided a
way in. Imagine doing the same thing by artificially carving out
large spaces within/under such a thick layer of ice.
~ BG
Brad Guth
include the planet Venus, is not something we can afford to
accept their well established customs.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any off-world product that’s delivered to us from the
moon, but instead that’s what it’s honestly worth to us for simply
existing there as is, because that means we don't have to pay anything
or further delay anything because of any water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas it being perfectly
solid or not isn’t the primary factor, whereas instead such asteroids
of rare and valuable elements are extremely interesting to William
Mook and many of us (including myself), except for that part of us
each being a good century dead before the first of any other asteroid
is ever artificially captured in a polar LEO, systematically taken
apart and its supposed good stuff delivered to Earth, at perhaps being
worth as little as $1M/ kg is perhaps not worth holding our breath.
On the other hand, we need to appreciate what can be realistically
accomplished with our moon(Selene) and within this decade. (on loot
that's borrowed from China none the less)
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most payload efficient orbital logistics option, as
well as one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is
robotic or humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass that’s
already in a stable and/or highly predictable orbit as is, as well as
having such a multitask usable L1 that’s mutually gateway beneficial
(especially nifty once there’s a lunar space elevator established) is
perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable enough materials
costing us less than $1000/kg, and perhaps eventually as little as $10/
kg.
According to everything from our wise old NASA/Apollo era and their
supposed expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation
to fret over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert pastel colorless
gray and otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly
anything gets electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and
whatever other passing debris are a non-issue, and as per whatever
loads of hot sodium that's surrounding our moon isn't even a problem
worth mentioning, and apparently it's even icy cold while working that
trek between Earth and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science
of being fully solar illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts
off). So what could possibly be more ideal than that? (unlimited hot
sunlight that's mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the
moon as well as coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than
freezing cold for everything else, is simply nothing but super
terrific thermodynamic physics on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further mainstream informed by our NASA
approved infomercial science, that 40 of those Northern polar craters
upon of our naked moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of
raw surface ice that's immune to the laws of physics, as having been
extremely frozen h2o coexisting at the extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar
none the less, and yet there has never been any previously observed
hint of such h2o vapors, as for suggesting any thin atmosphere
evolving or as ever escaping in any previously measurable way as
emerging out of any of those polar craters, though at the same time
and as of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
unusual saturation of sodium vapor that's venting off or evaporating
by day and thus extensively surrounding and comet like trailing away
from our moon, though again with not a hint of any h2o or other trace
indicators showing up within any of that gas. Since we still have
nothing situated within Selene L1, it seems our best independent
science can’t hardly objectively confirm or deny a damn thing, and
otherwise our spendy LRO mission seems a tad dysfunctional. Oh well,
it’s only our personal time and public loot that’s per usual MIA.
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having formed a protective layer of liquid
nitrogen, solid co2 or perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting as a
transparent cap or lid, plus otherwise most everything becomes a
superconductor at 26 K, which might further explain as to how that
otherwise naked ice has been magically protected from subliming away,
and yet apparently our considerably more spendy and technologically
advanced LRO mission still can't seem to replicate squat on behalf of
any of that supposed ISRO discovery of such hidden volumes of lunar
ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again - off again'
science smoke of our crack NASA that gets to use those conditional
laws of physics mirrors, selectively obfuscating as to whatever
science interpretations they don't happen to like, and otherwise
always receiving as much public funded mainstream hype on demand as
they need, as well as laughing all the way to their bank and behind
the back of our President BHO at the same time.
“The Meissner effect demonstrated by levitating a magnet above a
cuprate superconductor, which is cooled by liquid nitrogen”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnet_4.jpg
Not to mention that elements like water and ice are diamagnetic, and
nitrogen is only at best worth –210 C(63 K) to begin with, whereas
those polar craters offer 26 K. (try to imagine a moonsuit that’s good
for 26 K, and imagine that ice literally exploding like C4 when
exposed to sunlight or perhaps even the IR of earthshine)
Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
shaded depths that by rights should offer near the same extreme cold
of that 26 K cryogenic environment, whereas perhaps there's at least
another billion cubic meters worth of such hocus-pocus hidden ice
within those secondary craters as well. That's actually still not
very much ice, but at the real all-inclusive cost of perhaps $1M/kg as
safely fly-by-rocket imported from Earth and otherwise safely stored
on the moon for future use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of
existing ice becomes worth $1.6 million trillion (not to mention the
human safety advantages of our not having to manage any of the complex
and risky fly-by-rocket performed logistics of getting ourselves to/
from that naked surface in order to transfer and build up whatever
cache of water/ice, nor the subsequent pollution and/or negative
impact to our terrestrial environment for having to launch that volume
of water).
Even when it’s fully robotic accomplished for getting such water
delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
$10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth only $16,000
trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing lunar
basalt would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of
going after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/
radioactive elements that should exist.
The eventual relocating of our moon(Selene) to Earth L1 should not in
of itself cause any loss of that supposed hidden ice, because the
basins of such polar craters should remain below 36 K or even close to
26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat less seasonal tilt, as
well as the side facing Earth should become at least cold enough to
sustain craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even liquid
radon shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated within the
perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar illumination
or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within that same
cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or something less heated (>25
K), giving those Stirling solar energy conversions their thermal
dynamic differential of <365 K to work with, even though earthshine
would otherwise be considerable illumination plus offering a little IR
to work by.
Extreme caution: mainstreamers only go blind looking at Venus.
studio
> China is about ready to prove that they own our moon(Selene). Does
> that count?
Oh no, not our moon!
Yeah, but we own all the space around it.
Brad Guth
Good luck with that surrounding space, especially when China has their
array or battery of 100 GW laser cannons defending everything that's
within view.
Obviously you have no idea as to what the Earth-moon L1(Selene L1) and
everything my LSE-CM/ISS and its tethered dipole element represents to
whomever is in charge.
Obviously you have no idea as to what a laser cannon of 100 GW can do,
much less if we're also talking continuous electron beam potential.
Three or four of each installed at each lunar pole and perhaps a dozen
at the termination platform of the tethered dipole element which gets
those energy cannons within 2r of Earth, is not exactly a
insignificant tactical advantage. Try to remember that there's also
an unlimited amount of renewable energy to draw upon, and no longer is
the size or mass of anything a factor.
~ BG
Brad Guth
Good luck with utilizing that surrounding space (including LEO),
especially when China has their array or battery of 100 GW laser
cannons defending everything that's within view. Obviously you and
most others have no idea as to what the Earth-moon L1(Selene L1) and
everything my LSE-CM/ISS and its tethered dipole element represents to
whomever is in charge.
Obviously most folks (even those well educated) have no practical idea
as to what a space-based laser cannon of 100 GW can do, much less if
we're also talking continuous electron beam potential of perhaps 100
MW each. Three or four of each of these monsters installed at each
lunar pole and perhaps a dozen at the termination platform of the
tethered dipole element which gets those energy cannons within 2r of
Earth, is not exactly an insignificant tactical advantage. Try to
remember that there's also an unlimited amount of renewable energy to
draw upon, and no longer is the size or mass of anything a factor.
This off-world accomplishment would also become our anti-asteroid
defense system that’ll save Earth and us from those future encounters
that could otherwise terminate most life as we know it, not to mention
if any bad-ass ETs start showing up. This technology would also power
those William Mook laser and microwave sailing spacecraft for extended
range explorations at a fraction of the conventional energy
requirements, as well as within a fraction of the time if using 1/3<2
gee continuous acceleration. In other words, transferring long range
energy via laser, microwave and electron beams is no longer science
fiction.
~ BG
Jonathan
"Brad Guth" <brad...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> Moon water is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
But on Earth the same amount of water is worth $13,802.
Sylvia Else
> Moon water is worth<$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Looks like a number pulled out of the, erm, vacuum.
How is it derived?
Sylvia.
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Moon water is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
>
> But on Earth the same amount of water is worth $13,802.
How very true, but for us to safely manage a transfer of 1.6e9 tonnes
to the lunar surface, and having to secure it for future consumption
is what's going to get downright spendy. If in fact the ISRO/NASA
mission has objectively identified such substantial amounts, as their
having suggested 600 million cubic meters within 40 of those northern
polar craters that are always cryogenic and otherwise at 3e-15 bar
vacuum, is thus clearly worth more to us than it's weight in gold,
such as when and if that cache of water/ice is necessary for
sustaining human and technical operations on that naked moon of ours
is where having a local cache of water is nearly priceless.
Here's my revised/updated introduction for this topic:
Using our icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our local gateway
for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should logically
include the moon and planet Venus, is not something we can afford to
continually ignore unless we can all master the Mandarin language and
accept their well established customs.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any off-world product that’s delivered to us from the
moon, but instead that’s what it’s honestly worth to us for simply
existing there as is, because that means we don't have to pay anything
or further delay anything because of any water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas it being perfectly
solid or not (such as 0.1% hollow) isn’t the primary factor, whereas
instead such asteroids are often porous (meaning somewhat less than
solid) and offer those rare and valuable elements are extremely
interesting to William Mook and many of us (including myself), except
for that part of us each being a good century dead before the first of
any other asteroid is ever artificially captured in a polar LEO,
systematically taken apart and its supposed good stuff delivered to
Earth, at perhaps being worth as little as $1M/ kg is perhaps not
worth holding our breath.
On the other hand, we simply need to appreciate what can be
realistically accomplished with our moon(Selene), and within this
decade. (on loot that's borrowed from China none the less)
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most payload efficient orbital logistics option, as
well as one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is
robotic or humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass that’s
already in a stable and/or highly predictable orbit as is, as well as
having such a multitask usable L1 that’s mutually gateway beneficial
(especially nifty once there’s a lunar space elevator established) is
perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable enough materials
costing us less than $1000/kg, and perhaps eventually as little as $10/
kg.
According to everything from our wise old NASA/Apollo era and their
supposed expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation
to fret over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert pastel colorless
gray and otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly
anything gets electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and
whatever other passing debris are a non-issue, and as per whatever
loads of hot sodium that's surrounding our moon isn't even a problem
worth mentioning, and apparently it's even icy cold while working that
trek between Earth and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science
of being fully solar illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts
off). So what could possibly be more ideal than that? (unlimited hot
sunlight that's mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the
moon as well as coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than
freezing cold for everything else, is simply nothing but super
terrific thermodynamic physics on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further mainstream informed by our NASA
approved infomercial science, that 40 of those Northern polar craters
upon of our naked moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of
raw surface ice that's immune to the laws of physics, as having been
extremely frozen h2o coexisting at the extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar
none the less, and yet there has never been any previously observed
hint of such h2o vapors, as for suggesting any thin atmosphere
evolving or as ever escaping in any previously measurable way as
emerging out of any of those polar craters, though at the same time
and as of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
unusual saturation of sodium vapor that's venting off or evaporating
by day and thus extensively surrounding and comet like trailing away
from our moon, though again with not a hint of any h2o or other trace
indicators showing up within any of that gas. Since we still have
nothing situated within Selene L1, it seems our best independent
science can’t hardly objectively confirm or deny a damn thing, and
otherwise our spendy LRO mission seems a tad dysfunctional. Oh well,
it’s only our personal time and public loot that’s per usual MIA.
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having formed a protective layer of liquid
nitrogen, solid co2 or perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting as a
transparent cap or lid, plus otherwise most everything becomes a
superconductor at 26 K, which might further explain as to how that
otherwise naked ice has been magically protected from subliming away,
and yet apparently our considerably more spendy and technologically
advanced LRO mission still can't seem to replicate squat on behalf of
any of that supposed ISRO discovery of such hidden volumes of lunar
ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again - off again'
science smoke of our crack NASA that gets to use those conditional
laws of physics mirrors, selectively obfuscating as to whatever
science interpretations they don't happen to like, and otherwise
always receiving as much public funded mainstream hype on demand as
they need, as well as laughing all the way to their bank and behind
the back of our President BHO at the same time.
“The Meissner effect demonstrated by levitating a magnet above a
cuprate superconductor, which is cooled by liquid nitrogen”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnet_4.jpg
Not to mention that elements like water and ice are diamagnetic, and
nitrogen is only at best worth –210 C(63 K) to begin with, whereas
those polar craters offer 26 K. (try to imagine a moonsuit that’s good
for 26 K, and imagine that ice literally exploding like C4 when
exposed to sunlight or perhaps even the IR of earthshine)
Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
shaded depths that by rights should offer near the same extreme cold
of that 26 K cryogenic environment, whereas perhaps there's at least
another billion cubic meters worth of such hocus-pocus hidden ice
within those secondary craters as well. That's actually still not
very much ice, but at the real all-inclusive cost of perhaps $1M/kg as
safely fly-by-rocket imported from Earth and otherwise safely stored
on the moon for future use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of
existing ice becomes worth $1.6 million trillion (not to mention the
human safety advantages of our not having to manage any of the complex
and risky fly-by-rocket performed logistics of getting ourselves to/
from that naked surface in order to transfer and build up whatever
cache of water/ice, nor the subsequent pollution and/or negative
impact to our terrestrial environment for having to launch that volume
of water).
Even when it’s fully robotic accomplished for getting such water
delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
$10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth only $16,000
trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing lunar
basalt would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of
going after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/
radioactive elements that should exist.
The eventual relocating of our moon(Selene) to Earth L1 should not in
of itself cause any loss of that supposed hidden ice, because the
basins of such polar craters should remain below 36 K or even close to
26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat less seasonal tilt, as
well as the side facing Earth should become at least cold enough to
sustain craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even liquid
radon shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated within the
perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar illumination
or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within that same
cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or something less heated (>25
K), giving those Stirling solar energy conversions their thermal
dynamic differential of <365 K to work with, even though earthshine
would otherwise be considerable illumination plus offering a little IR
to work by.
Extreme caution: mainstreamers only go blind looking at Venus.
Jonathan
On Mar 22, 3:46 pm, "Jonathan" <H...@Again.net> wrote:
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > Moon water is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
>
> > But on Earth the same amount of water is worth $13,802.
>How very true, but for us to safely manage a transfer of 1.6e9 tonnes
>to the lunar surface, and having to secure it for future consumption
>is what's going to get downright spendy. If in fact the ISRO/NASA
>mission has objectively identified such substantial amounts,
I have a lot of faith in the scientific community in general
to be honest and objective. But something about all the claims
of H3 and water on the Moon just seem to have 'politicized'
written all over the results. As in being carefully designed to
justify where they...want...to go. Which is not the same as
a result that helps decide what the best goal ...should be.
> On the other hand, we simply need to appreciate what can be
> realistically accomplished with our moon(Selene), and within this
> decade. (on loot that's borrowed from China none the less)
The point I've been trying to make here for some time is that
if anyone is going to the Moon, it's the military.
I've always wanted to see us go to back to the Moon and
on to Mars, it's the logical progression. But the reality is that
it'll be at the cost of another f o r t y y e a r l o n g cold war
with the Chinese. A very expensive and dangerous one.
The Moon isn't worth it.
A race to the Moon is a negative sum game, a race for
something like Space Solar Power is just the opposite.
Bringing the world closer together, not dividing it into armed
camps. Building prosperity and justice instead of weapons
and walls.
These are not subtle differences.
One goal builds an entirely new society in space dedicated
to the ...destruction of the Earth.
The other uses space technology to eliminate our primary
sources of conflict. Two distinctly different future paths
are being decided right now.
It's important to be clear about the kind of future we want.
Since our glorified modern science can't predict the future for
more than a few moments here and there, it's left to our
imagination. The only way to accurately predict the future
of the real world is by imagining the future we want, and then
find a way to connect the current reality to that ideal future.
Jonathan
Laying the Foundation for Space Solar Power
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1
Space-Based Solar Power As an Opportunity for Strategic Security
http://www.nss.org/settlement/ssp/library/nsso.htm
Space Energy Inc
http://www.spaceenergy.com/s/Default.htm
War Without Oil: A Catalyst For True Transformation
"Complicating the matter is a lack of professional consensus on
the actual expected date of global peak oil production, with
credible organizations such a ExxonMobil predicting that
the non-OPEC Hubbert's Peak will arrive within 5 years
and the U.S. Government claiming the planet's absolute peak
will occur somewhere around 2037"
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat56.pdf
s
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d0b84f53-b0ae-4633...@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 22, 3:46 pm, "Jonathan" <H...@Again.net> wrote:
>
> > "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:c3b653ab-8060-4f07...@l24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > Moon water is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
>
> > > But on Earth the same amount of water is worth $13,802.
> >How very true, but for us to safely manage a transfer of 1.6e9 tonnes
> >to the lunar surface, and having to secure it for future consumption
> >is what's going to get downright spendy. If in fact the ISRO/NASA
> >mission has objectively identified such substantial amounts,
>
> I have a lot of faith in the scientific community in general
> to be honest and objective. But something about all the claims
> of H3 and water on the Moon just seem to have 'politicized'
> written all over the results. As in being carefully designed to
> justify where they...want...to go. Which is not the same as
> a result that helps decide what the best goal ...should be.
Exactly, whereas it's whatever those Rothschilds want that's pretty
much in charge of what the rest of us get to pay for. Our NASA/Apollo
moon is simply too hocus-pocus to suit my way of interpreting what
that physically dark sucker has to offer.
>
> > On the other hand, we simply need to appreciate what can be
> > realistically accomplished with our moon(Selene), and within this
> > decade. (on loot that's borrowed from China none the less)
>
> The point I've been trying to make here for some time is that
> if anyone is going to the Moon, it's the military.
No doubt that's exactly what China has in mind.
>
> I've always wanted to see us go to back to the Moon and
> on to Mars, it's the logical progression. But the reality is that
> it'll be at the cost of another f o r t y y e a r l o n g cold war
> with the Chinese. A very expensive and dangerous one.
Correct once again, but our moon isn't 1% of what the planet Venus has
to offer.
>
> The Moon isn't worth it.
>
> A race to the Moon is a negative sum game, a race for
> something like Space Solar Power is just the opposite.
> Bringing the world closer together, not dividing it into armed
> camps. Building prosperity and justice instead of weapons
> and walls.
>
> These are not subtle differences.
Your motives and ideals are similar to those of mine.
>
> One goal builds an entirely new society in space dedicated
> to the ...destruction of the Earth.
>
> The other uses space technology to eliminate our primary
> sources of conflict. Two distinctly different future paths
> are being decided right now.
Too bad we can't trust those "seans", and even at times William Mook
seems pro-protectionism on behalf of his mainstream, whereas the ends
justifies the means.
>
> It's important to be clear about the kind of future we want.
> Since our glorified modern science can't predict the future for
> more than a few moments here and there, it's left to our
> imagination. The only way to accurately predict the future
> of the real world is by imagining the future we want, and then
> find a way to connect the current reality to that ideal future.
Becoming clean energy abundant and otherwise energy robust seems
logical and otherwise a win-win for everyone, as will as good for our
environment and global economics to boot.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Laying the Foundation for Space Solar Powerhttp://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1
>
> Space-Based Solar Power As an Opportunity for Strategic Securityhttp://www.nss.org/settlement/ssp/library/nsso.htm
>
> Space Energy Inchttp://www.spaceenergy.com/s/Default.htm
>
> War Without Oil: A Catalyst For True Transformation
>
> "Complicating the matter is a lack of professional consensus on
> the actual expected date of global peak oil production, with
> credible organizations such a ExxonMobil predicting that
> the non-OPEC Hubbert's Peak will arrive within 5 years
> and the U.S. Government claiming the planet's absolute peak
> will occur somewhere around 2037"http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat56.pdf
>
> s
Earth with only spendy oil and other hydrocarbon alternatives that'll
likely keep pace with their demanding a similar price per energy unit,
and those wars over who gets what limited resource of fresh water are
clearly in our future.
The good news; less of our fresh water is going to be locked up in
slow ice, and the rich and powerful will always get as much fresh
water as they can waste. The latest National Geographic has revised
and republished what I've been saying about our global and local fresh
water demand for more than a decade, and of its limited cache or
reserve that's fading fast seems to not bother anyone except the few
of us that honestly care.
~ BG
Brad Guth
Moon ice is worth considerably more than its weight in gold, and the
Selene L1 is worth even more because it’s the only viable to/from
gateway. Ignoring its zero delta-V is like ignoring that NASA
certified lunar cache of water/ice that’s worth <$1.6 million
trillion by itself, not to mention what the moon(Selene) becomes worth
because of having such a terrific natural resource that’s imperative
for not only sustaining life but also on behalf of applied
technology.
Using our icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our local gateway
for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should logically
include the moon and planet Venus, is not something we can afford to
continually ignore, unless we can all master the Mandarin language and
accept their well established customs.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any off-world product that’s delivered to us from the
moon, but instead that’s what it’s honestly worth to us for simply
existing there as is, because that means we don't have to pay anything
or further delay anything because of any water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas it being perfectly
solid or not (such as 0.1% hollow) isn’t the primary factor, whereas
instead such asteroids are often porous (meaning somewhat less than
solid) and offer those rare and valuable elements are extremely
interesting to William Mook and many of us (including myself), except
for that part of us each being a good century dead before the first of
any other asteroid is ever artificially captured in a polar LEO,
systematically taken apart and its supposed good stuff delivered to
Earth, at perhaps such asteroid minerals and rare elements being worth
as little as $1M/ kg is perhaps not worth holding our breath, or
having to fork out that kind of loot.
On the other hand, without having to waste decades capturing an
asteroid that’ll likely cost more than it’s worth, whereas instead we
simply need to fully appreciate what can be realistically accomplished
with our moon(Selene), and within this decade. (on loot that's
borrowed from China none the less)
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most payload efficient orbital logistics option, as
well as one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is
robotic or humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass that’s
already in a stable and/or highly predictable orbit as is, as well as
having such a multitask usable L1 that’s mutually gateway beneficial
(especially nifty once there’s a lunar space elevator established) is
perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable enough materials
costing us less than $1000/kg, and perhaps eventually as little as $10/
kg.
According to everything from our wise old NASA/Apollo era and their
supposed expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation
to fret over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert pastel colorless
gray and otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly
anything gets electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and
whatever other passing debris are a non-issue, and as per whatever
loads of hot sodium that's surrounding our moon isn't even a problem
worth mentioning, and apparently it's even icy cold while working that
trek between Earth and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science
of being fully solar illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts
off). So what could possibly be more ideal than that? (unlimited hot
sunlight that's mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the
moon as well as coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than
freezing cold for everything else, is simply nothing but super
terrific thermodynamic physics on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further mainstream informed by our NASA
approved infomercial science, that 40 of those Northern polar craters
upon of our naked moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of
raw surface ice that's immune to the laws of physics, as having been
extremely frozen h2o coexisting at the extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar
none the less, and yet there has never been any previously observed
hint of such h2o vapors, as for suggesting any thin atmosphere
evolving or as ever escaping in any previously measurable way as
emerging out of any of those polar craters, though at the same time
and as of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
unusual saturation of sodium vapor that's venting off or evaporating
by day and thus extensively surrounding and comet like trailing away
from our moon, though again with not a hint of any h2o or other trace
indicators showing up within any of that gas. Since we still have
nothing situated within Selene L1, it seems our best independent
science can’t hardly objectively confirm or deny a damn thing, and
otherwise our spendy LRO mission seems a tad dysfunctional. Oh well,
it’s only our personal time and public loot that’s per usual MIA.
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having formed a protective layer of liquid
nitrogen, solid co2 or perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting as a
transparent cap or lid, plus otherwise most everything becomes a
superconductor at 26 K, which might further explain as to how that
otherwise naked ice has been magically protected from subliming away,
and yet apparently our considerably more spendy and technologically
advanced LRO mission still can't seem to replicate squat on behalf of
any of that supposed ISRO discovery of such hidden volumes of lunar
ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again - off again'
science smoke of our crack NASA that gets to use those conditional
laws of physics mirrors, selectively obfuscating as to whatever
science interpretations they don't happen to like, and otherwise
always receiving as much public funded mainstream hype on demand as
they need, as well as laughing all the way to their bank and behind
the back of our President BHO at the same time.
“The Meissner effect demonstrated by levitating a magnet above a
cuprate superconductor, which is cooled by liquid nitrogen”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Magnet_4.jpg
Not to mention that elements like water and ice are diamagnetic, and
nitrogen is only at best worth –210 C(63 K) to begin with, whereas
those polar craters offer 26 K. (try to imagine a moonsuit that’s good
for 26 K, and imagine that ice literally exploding like C4 when
exposed to sunlight or perhaps even the IR of earthshine)
Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
shaded depths that by rights should offer near the same extreme cold
of that 26 K cryogenic environment, whereas perhaps there's at least
another billion cubic meters worth of such hocus-pocus hidden ice
within those secondary craters as well. That's actually still not
very much ice, but at the real all-inclusive cost of perhaps $1M/kg as
safely fly-by-rocket imported from Earth and otherwise safely stored
on the moon for future use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of
existing ice becomes worth $1.6 million trillion (not to mention the
human safety advantages of our not having to manage any of the complex
and risky fly-by-rocket performed logistics of getting ourselves to/
from that naked surface in order to transfer and build up whatever
cache of water/ice, nor the subsequent pollution and/or negative
impact to our terrestrial environment for having to launch that volume
of water).
Even when it’s fully robotic accomplished for getting such water
delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
$10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth only $16,000
trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing lunar
basalt would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of
going after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/
radioactive elements that should exist.
The eventual relocating of our moon(Selene) to Earth L1 should not in
of itself cause any loss of that supposed hidden ice, because those
always shady basins of such polar craters should remain below 36 K or
even close to 26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat less
seasonal tilt, as well as the side facing Earth should become at least
cold enough to sustain craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and
perhaps even liquid radon shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters
situated within the perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving
no solar illumination or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights
fall within that same cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or
something less heated (>25 K), giving those Stirling solar energy
conversions their thermal dynamic differential of <365 K to work with,
even though earthshine would otherwise be considerable illumination
plus offering a little IR to work by.
Extreme caution: mainstreamers only go blind looking at Venus.
Brad Guth
>
> Space-Based Solar Power As an Opportunity for Strategic Securityhttp://www.nss.org/settlement/ssp/library/nsso.htm
>
>
> War Without Oil: A Catalyst For True Transformation
>
> "Complicating the matter is a lack of professional consensus on
> the actual expected date of global peak oil production, with
> credible organizations such a ExxonMobil predicting that
> the non-OPEC Hubbert's Peak will arrive within 5 years
> and the U.S. Government claiming the planet's absolute peak
> will occur somewhere around 2037"http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat56.pdf
>
> s
btw; most oil and other hydrocarbon fuels are w/o DNA of any kind
(not even the slightest trace). Only a few limited examples of
trapped and otherwise encapsulated DNA, such as Ed Conrad's "man of
coal", represents a history of DNA involvement within such
hydrocarbons.
As of the nearby and relatively sudden creation of Sirius that took
place roughly 300 million years ago is when life as we know it got
kicked in the teeth and butt at the same time, and subsequently Eden/
Earth was extensively modified. It's what happens when galaxies merge
and especially when your solar system becomes surrounded by a massive
molecular cloud that gives birth to the absolutely vibrant Sirius star/
solar system.
bert
>
> - Show quoted text -
After testing 830 lb of moon rocks not a molecule of water was
detected. Hmmm Best place to look would be in deep shade under ground
in a crater at the north pole. Best to keep in mind photons can
seperater water back to its two elements TreBert
HVAC
"bert" <herbertg...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:2955b68b-9f57-49bc...@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
After testing 830 lb of moon rocks not a molecule of water was
detected. Hmmm Best place to look would be in deep shade under ground
in a crater at the north pole.
You mean where we ALREADY found water ice?
Your predictions are awesome Bert.... After the fact.
--
Tua mater tam antiquior ut linguam latine loquatur
- Your mother is so old she speaks Latin
Brad Guth
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> After testing 830 lb of moon rocks not a molecule of water was
> detected. Hmmm Best place to look would be in deep shade under ground
> in a crater at the north pole. Best to keep in mind photons can
> seperater water back to its two elements TreBert
I agree with that, of our robotic technology having to go deep into
that fused basalt crust if looking for pockets or aquifers of water,
or those more likely to uncover mineral brines that should exist
within geode pockets.
On the other hand, our crack NASA and ISRO wizards say that cryogenic
stored ice is just right there on the surface, of raw ice that's
existing within those deeply shaded polar craters, perhaps at most
covered by that same thin layer of whatever is a inert pastel
monochrome of crystal dry yet nicely clumping dust that offers such
terrific surface tension for walking and driving upon, as well as no
hint of any electrostatic charge or excess of sodium.
The 50<250 ppm of water that's supposedly part of lunar basalt bedrock
is all together different, because it has to be vaporized out along
with the O2 and 3He.
~ BG
Brad Guth
> "bert" <herbertglazie...@msn.com> wrote in message
Too bad that our spendy LRO along with it's extended dynamic range and
superior resolution that's at least ten fold better than anything ISRO
had to work with, still can't manage to replicate that same finding of
ice.
Perhaps that moon ice is like Muslim WMD and OBL that also can't be
replicated by any subsequent research, regardless of using
considerably better exploratory and detection technology.
~ BG
Jonathan
.
> Becoming clean energy abundant and otherwise energy robust seems
> logical and otherwise a win-win for everyone, as will as good for our
> environment and global economics to boot.
Mythical energy sources power so many sci-fi plots.
And having it or not is the difference between story
lines with unlimited dreams, or endless misery.
They've spend some $50 billion on fusion research, but
only some $80 million on Space Solar Power. Which
is nothing really, just studies not any real research.
And honestly, if there was a contest to see which
could be built and become practical first, Space Solar
Power would win hands down. In the time it took
Apollo we could have the first gigawatt solar satellite
flying.
And when would the third world be getting their fusion
power plants? Never, that's when.
Space Solar Power is ideally suited to poor and rural
countries since all they have to do is build a rather
inexpensive receiver. They don't have to build an
expensive power plant, or the hundreds of miles
of train tracks, roads, strip mines etc etc a modern
power plant needs.
I'm not a big believer in conspiracy theories. But if
there is some big money effort to keep a new clean
energy source from competing, its Space Solar Power
that's being repressed.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Laying the Foundation for Space Solar
> Powerhttp://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10202&page=1
>
> Space-Based Solar Power As an Opportunity for Strategic
> Securityhttp://www.nss.org/settlement/ssp/library/nsso.htm
>
> Space Energy Inchttp://www.spaceenergy.com/s/Default.htm
>
> War Without Oil: A Catalyst For True Transformation
>
> "Complicating the matter is a lack of professional consensus on
> the actual expected date of global peak oil production, with
> credible organizations such a ExxonMobil predicting that
> the non-OPEC Hubbert's Peak will arrive within 5 years
> and the U.S. Government claiming the planet's absolute peak
> will occur somewhere around
> 2037"http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cst/csat56.pdf
>
> s
> Earth with only spendy oil and other hydrocarbon alternatives that'll
> likely keep pace with their demanding a similar price per energy unit,
> and those wars over who gets what limited resource of fresh water are
> clearly in our future.
Desalination plants require lots and lots of electricity. And often is
rural areas.
~ BG
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:601f9fe5-b55b-4d43...@k36g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
Terrestrial thorium could save us if we could ever manage to get <10
TW of thorium reactors on line, as well as our national grid expanded
and bulked up by at least four fold. Geothermal is yet another
perfectly viable alternative, and yes space based energy shouldn't be
ignored. I assume you go along with much of what William Mook has had
to offer, and perhaps the expertise of Steven Chu shouldn't be
excluded.
Space based energy needs to also include what can be accomplished on
our moon(Selene), or even within its L1.
~ BG
Brad Guth
I wonder why our William Mook doesn't care about providing energy for
the necessary desalination. Perhaps 10% of global energy could be
diverted into desalination, requiring those remote energy receiving
stations by the thousands. Actually terrestrial solar powered
desalination should have been resolved as of decades ago, and perhaps
another decade from now could provide those GW class of satellites for
added capacity, and Selene L1 is a good location for those (especially
since the moon itself contributes a great deal of IR roughly half the
time)
Perhaps there's a Sun-Moon L1 orbit that'll provide the most combined
energy density, although Earth L1 is already.proven itself as a
manageable orbit.
~ BG
Brad Guth
It's getting oddly quiet about all that supposed raw ice that's
supposed to be on our moon, as having been hidden from view and
somehow protected from vaporizing/subliming away within those
extremely cryogenic craters that are exposed to such extreme vacuum.
Are we being mooned by our NASA? (again?)
Is mainstream media in on this grand ruse/sting of the century?
Why is our LRO mission acting so dysfunctional, as well as color
blind?
~ BG
Jonathan
>Terrestrial thorium could save us if we could ever manage to get <10
>TW of thorium reactors on line,
A solution only for the wealthier nations.
Such a limited source only delays the
inevitable, it won't be a true solution to
our future energy needs. Space Solar Power
applies globally.
> as well as our national grid expanded
>and bulked up by at least four fold.
Space Solar Power would dramatically help
in reducing the need for expansion. The reason
why should become clear in the next paragraph.
> Geothermal is yet another
>perfectly viable alternative,
Georthermal is highly limited in application.
So is terrestrial solar power due to its intermittant
flow. Any solution must have the property of being able
to directly contribute to baseload electrical grids as needed.
For instance some grid that may overload for two months
each year. Terrestrial solar can only contribute ..indirectly
by absorbing some of the growth. But it can't be applied /directly/
to some grid 24/7 for a specified time....baseload power.
How much would that space solar power be worth
....per watt...if it means a $20 billion power plant is
no longer needed just for those two months?
How much per watt would rural areas pay if
they also are spared such huge expenses to
access power? They'd pay any price per watt.
Or natural disasters, military operations or any place
that doesn't have electricity now, say in the middle
of the Congo etc.
They'd pay any price per watt, since Space Solar
Power would have numerous /brand new/ market
niches all to themselves. Space Solar Power would
create its own ...new...markets that no other source
could possibly compete considering only the cost of
a rectenna is needed at the receiving end.
The true beauty of Space Solar Power is once
the satellite is built, the cost of accessing electicity
dramatically drops for everyone.
As anyone could cheaply and quickly build a
rectenna /very near/ where it's needed. Instead
of having to build some $20 billion plant with
all the related infrastructure.
> and yes space based energy shouldn't be
>ignored.
It's quickly becoming seen a primary long term solution.
As it should be. I've been watching the Internet
traffic over SSP since I started on about it some
three years ago. The difference in the last couple
of years in talk about it is like night and day.
It's spreading much like the concensus on climate
change formed. It got to the point where something
like Hurricane Katrina provided the last straw and
the business community collectively accepted climate
change as fact, and the debate suddenly ended.
It's only going to take something like one major oil
field to begin failing, and all hell will break lose in
the world oil market. A panic situation and hoarding
can start overnight as things stand now.
Only something as widely useful, practical and easy
to access like Space Solar Power can nip that
scary scenario in the bud. The market place has
to be assured a /true/ replacement is in the works
so such a panic buying spree can be avoided.
SSP is the only renewable that can do all the things
an elegant solution requires.
s
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Terawatts of failsafe thorium, geothermal, solar and wind are not
insignificant, nor limited as to the wealthy. Global hydroelectric
hasn't tapped but 25% of its potential. Your SSP is viable, though at
first the most spendy to R&D, deploy, sustain and then share and share
alike which of course simply isn't going to happen in our lifetimes,
if ever.
We need cheap and reliable clean energy right now, or rather as of a
decade ago. To be more exact, this world needs an extra 10 TW by no
later than the end of this century, or else it's WW3.
If SSP were given a global green light, perhaps a couple decades from
now we'd start to see the light and the benefits, with a fully working
system by the end of this century, that which should have our energy
cost in the realm of $1/kwhr for the poorest nations, and perhaps $10/
kwhr for the rest of us.
How much inflation, caste systems and disparity are we capable of?
~ BG
Brad Guth
considerably more ice to start with (just like I’ve argued all
along). As is, it’s supposedly hosting an average icy volume of 15
million tonnes per northern pole crater that’s fully shaded from
sunlight, and by rights the south pole that’s only slightly warmer has
considerably greater volumes of shaded craters to interpret as also
hosting ice.
Such moon ice is technically worth considerably more than its weight
in gold, and the Selene L1 is worth even more because it’s the only
viable to/from gateway, whereas ignoring its zero delta-V is like
ignoring that NASA certified lunar cache of water/ice that’s worth <
$1.6 million trillion by itself, not to mention what the moon(Selene)
becomes worth because of having such a terrific natural resource
that’s imperative for not only sustaining life but also on behalf of
applied technology that’ll dig out, process and export whatever.
Using our supposedly icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our
local gateway for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should
logically include the moon itself and our extremely nearby planet
Venus, is not something we can afford to continually ignore, unless we
can all master the Mandarin language and accept their well established
customs.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any off-world product that’s delivered to us from the
moon, but instead that’s what it’s honestly worth to us for simply
existing there as is, because that means we don't have to pay anything
or further delay anything because of any water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas it being perfectly
solid or not (such as 0.1% hollow) isn’t the primary factor, whereas
instead such asteroids are often porous (meaning somewhat less than
solid) and offer those rare and valuable elements that are extremely
interesting to William Mook and many of us (including myself), except
for that part of us each being a good century dead before the first of
any other asteroid is ever artificially captured in a polar LEO,
systematically taken apart and its supposed good stuff delivered to
Earth, at perhaps such asteroid minerals and rare elements being worth
as little as $1M/ kg is perhaps not something worth holding our
breath, or having to fork out that kind of loot.
On the other hand, without having to waste decades capturing an
asteroid that’ll likely cost us more than it’s worth, whereas instead
we simply need to fully appreciate what can be realistically
accomplished with our moon(Selene), and within this decade (on loot
that's borrowed from China none the less). Even if that existing moon
ice could be robotically replaced or substituted on demand by
terrestrial water/ice at as little as $1000/kg, still makes what’s
supposedly already there worth $1.6 thousand trillion.
Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
such is by far the most payload efficient orbital logistics option, as
well as one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is
robotic or humanly taking place. Considering the greater mass of
7.35e22 kg that’s already in a stable and/or highly predictable orbit
as is, as well as having such a multitask usable L1 that’s mutually
gateway beneficial (especially nifty once there’s a lunar space
elevator established) is perhaps going to be worthy of exporting
valuable enough materials costing us less than $1000/kg, and perhaps
eventually as little as $10/kg of finished products exported from our
moon.
According to everything from our wise old NASA/Apollo era and their
supposed right stuff and expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or
cosmic radiation to fret over, the moon itself is nothing but an inert
pastel colorless gray and otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive),
whereas hardly if anything gets electrostatic charged, as well as
rogue meteors and whatever other passing debris are a non-issue, and
as per whatever loads of hot sodium that's surrounding our moon isn't
even a problem worth mentioning, and apparently it's even icy cold
while working that trek between Earth and our moon (checkout Apollo 13
for that science of being fully solar illuminated yet somehow freezing
their butts off). So what could possibly be more off-world ideal than
that? (unlimited hot sunlight that's mostly passive, plus loads of
secondary IR from the moon as well as coming off Earth, and otherwise
it’s more than freezing cold for everything else, is simply nothing
but super terrific thermodynamic physics on steroids)
Now it seems we're being further mainstream informed by our NASA
approved infomercial science, that 40 of those Northern polar craters
upon of our naked moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of
raw surface ice that's immune to the laws of physics, as having been
cryogenic frozen h2o coexisting at the extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar
none the less, and yet there has never been any previously observed
hint of such h2o vapors, as for suggesting any thin atmosphere
evolving or as ever escaping hydrogen in any previously measurable way
as emerging out of any of those polar craters, though at the same time
and as of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
unusual saturation of sodium vapor that's venting off or evaporating
by day and thus extensively surrounding and also comet like trailing
away from our moon, though again with not a hint of any h2o or other
trace indicators of hydrogen and oxygen showing up within any of that
vented/sublimed gas. Since we still have nothing situated within
Selene L1, it seems our best independent science can’t hardly
objectively confirm or deny a damn thing, and otherwise our spendy LRO
mission seems a tad dysfunctional. Oh well, it’s only our personal
time and public loot that’s per usual MIA.
Is that icy bleed-off of hydrogen some how cloaked, such as binding
itself up with all the sodium?
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having formed a protective layer of liquid
nitrogen, a solid lens of co2 or perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting
as a transparent cap or lid, plus otherwise most everything becomes a
superconductor at 26 K, which might further explain as to how that
otherwise naked ice has been magically protected from subliming away,
and yet apparently our considerably more spendy and technologically
advanced LRO mission still can't seem to replicate squat on behalf of
any of that supposed ISRO discovery of such hidden volumes of lunar
ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again - off again'
science smoke of our crack NASA that gets to use those conditional
laws of physics mirrors, selectively obfuscating as to whatever
science interpretations they don't happen to like, and otherwise
allowed to guess/estimate plus always receiving as much public funded
always shaded basins of such polar craters should remain below 36 K or
perhaps even close to 26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat
less seasonal tilt, as well as the side facing the secondary IR
illumination via earthshine should become at least remain cold enough
to sustain craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even
liquid radon shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated
within the perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar
illumination or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within
that same cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or perhaps
something less heated (>25 K), giving those Stirling solar energy
conversions their basic thermal dynamic differential of <365 K to work
with, even though earthshine would otherwise provide considerable
Jonathan
> If SSP were given a global green light, perhaps a couple decades from
> now we'd start to see the light and the benefits, with a fully working
> system by the end of this century,
I don't think it'll take that long at all. Space Energy Inc credibly claims
that once financing is found, they could be flying a 1gw satellite in
five years, about the same time it takes to build a similar output
nuclear or coal power plant. And that's five years to build the
very...first one. And once a profit is demonstrated, the huge
energy market can supply all the financing imaginable and
literally overnight. With an Apollo like progam, it could be
ten years to demonstrate a profit, and another ten years
to flood the sky with them. By the time climate change
becomes irreversible, we could have the elegant future
solution.
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
There's never any shortage of loot, whereas the Rothschilds have 100+
trillion of our loot to spend/invest any way they see fit, and they
control the vast majority of national banks as is, including our
Federal Reserve.
We'll need 10+ tw, however creating and deploying the first thousand
SSPs (including thousands of Earth receiving stations) would cost how
much, and take how long??
As long as we keep such a close hold onto our moon(Selene), global
warming isn't going away, and Big Energy still has a few centuries of
puking their spendy hydrocarbons with toxic soot that's laced with
CO2, NOx and a good dozen other nasty as well as valuable elements
that should have stayed safely in the ground until we had a much safer
way of dealing with such.
~ BG
Jonathan
> We'll need 10+ tw, however creating and deploying the first thousand
> SSPs (including thousands of Earth receiving stations) would cost how
> much, and take how long??
That's not how markets think. The cost of SSP will steadily decrease
over time, while energy steadily becomes more valuable, and within
a market with unlimited demand, room for growth and financing.
It doesn't get any better than that.
And I haven't even mentioned the price of the 'sun' will never go up, it
will never have a 'peak' like oil.
SSP won't have to be the only source, it only needs to
provide a sense of security within the world oil market
that when oil runs out, an alternative is ready.
It's the impending 'Great Oil Crash' or panic buying we have to avert.
Jonathan
s
Brad Guth
> "Brad Guth" <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1d1ce5d8-9032-4826...@c34g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
> > We'll need 10+ tw, however creating and deploying the first thousand
> > SSPs (including thousands of Earth receiving stations) would cost how
> > much, and take how long??
>
> That's not how markets think. The cost of SSP will steadily decrease
> over time, while energy steadily becomes more valuable, and within
> a market with unlimited demand, room for growth and financing.
>
> It doesn't get any better than that.
Technically we could have started SSP deployments as of 4 decades ago,
and perhaps at 10% the cost of that Apollo ruse/sting of the century,
such as utilizing the zero deta-V of our Selene L1. William Mook
would have also agreed that SSP is a good energy alternative with no
insurmountable problems as long as the cheapest SSP derived energy
goes for at least $1/kwhr.
>
> And I haven't even mentioned the price of the 'sun' will never go up, it
> will never have a 'peak' like oil.
At least for the foreseeable future, I'll give you that one.
Meanwhile we're still way short on energy, and most of us can no
longer afford whatever that spendy energy can produce.
>
> SSP won't have to be the only source, it only needs to
> provide a sense of security within the world oil market
> that when oil runs out, an alternative is ready.
That's exactly why I'd mentioned 10 TW, as representing roughly 10% of
what this world is going to need in the way of affordably clean and
reliable energy by the end of this century when half of the cars,
trucks and public forms of transportation are going to become all-
electric, and most of our fresh water needs will have to be from
commercial, community and private desalination units.
100 TW / 2e10 = 5 kw for each and every one of us, whereas obviously
the rich and powerful will be taking an average of 50 kw each, and the
poorest among us will be lucky to get 500 watts.
I take it you think $1/kwhr is cheap enough to start off with, and the
future cost can simply keep pace with whatever hydrocarbon derived
energy is running.
>
> It's the impending 'Great Oil Crash' or panic buying we have to avert.
>
> Jonathan
Haven't you simply asked those Rothschilds and their ZNR partners to
play nice? (after all, hydrocarbon energy has only inflated by 6400%
in the past 64 years, so how much worse can it get?)
~ BG
Brad Guth
It seems now we also have those insisting that our moon was never
orbiting significantly closer or much less hot, tilted or rotating
outside of being Earth locked to begin with, so no wonder there’s
still a cache of ice in them thar deep polar craters, whereas their
purely subjective hypostasis that’s based entirely on interpreting
them cold spots as having ice that essentially can’t ever vaporize/
sublime regardless of whatever vacuum or local energy, and we’re
supposed to accept that our moon(Selene) hasn’t ever been any hotter,
more tilted or having rotated outside of having been forever tidal
locked to Earth.
If our moon has such an abundance of raw ice, then once upon a time it
obviously had considerably more ice to start with (pretty much exactly
like I’ve argued all along). As is, it’s supposedly hosting an
average icy volume of 15 million tonnes per northern pole crater
that’s fully shaded from sunlight, and by rights the south pole that’s
remote measured by LRO as only slightly warmer, has considerably
greater volumes of shaded craters to interpret as also hosting ice,
because hypothetically it has to be there.
Such hypothetical moon ice that’s mainstream hyped as though it’s
objectively existing is technically worth considerably more than its
weight in gold, and the Selene L1 is worth even more because it’s the
only viable to/from gateway, whereas ignoring its zero delta-V is like
ignoring that NASA certified lunar cache of water/ice that’s worth <
$1.6 million trillion by itself, not to mention what the moon(Selene)
becomes worth because of having such a terrific natural resource
that’s imperative for not only sustaining life but also on behalf of
applied technology that’ll dig out, process and export whatever.
Of course just a warm moonsuit that’s giving off a few hundred watts
of energy (say 500 watts), as going into any of those cryogenic
environments would likely cause that ice to sublime upon touch. So,
perhaps only the most cold blooded robotics can ever be sent in for
retrieving any of that ice, although a special vacuum hose that can be
artificially heated might do the trick.
Using our supposedly icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our
local gateway for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should
logically include the moon itself and our extremely nearby planet
Venus, is not something we can afford to continually ignore, unless we
can all master the Mandarin language and accept their well established
customs of accepting anything and everything our new government has to
say.
perhaps even closer to 26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat
less seasonal tilt, as well as the side facing the secondary IR
illumination via earthshine should become at least remain cold enough
to sustain craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even
liquid radon shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated
within the perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar
illumination or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within
that same cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or perhaps
something less heated (>25 K), giving those Stirling solar energy
conversions their basic thermal dynamic differential of <365 K to work
with, even though earthshine would otherwise provide considerable
illumination plus offering a little IR to work by.
Btw, hypothetically there’s other intelligent life existing/coexisting
on Venus, and thus hypothetically our government has been covering
this up, because there’s nothing in the laws of physics or otherwise
of our best available science that’ll exclude such an interpretation.
In NASA approved terminology, hypothetical = objective proof positive
that gets public funded and media hyped as though it’s the one and
only truth in town.
Brad Guth
It seems now we also have those insisting that our moon was never
rotating outside of being Earth locked to begin with, so no wonder
there’s still a cache of ice in them thar deep polar craters, whereas
interpreting them cold spots as having ice that essentially can’t ever
we’re supposed to accept that our moon(Selene) hasn’t ever been any
hotter, more tilted or having rotated outside of having been forever
tidal locked to Earth.
How the heck does such an originally molten rock that’s placed into
such an extensive vacuum and kept so tidal associated with Earth ever
obtain any such ice to begin with?
Since we’ve had scientific 1 AU orbital capability for roughly a half
century (such as our Earth-moon L1), where’s the objective science as
proof of whatever hypothesis as to such raw ice or rather its elements
of O2 and H2 binding as water in any amount and coexisting as ice in
the 1 AU vacuum of space that’s anything but passive or cool?
If our moon has such an abundance of raw ice, then once upon a time it
obviously had considerably more ice to start with (pretty much exactly
like I’ve argued all along). As is, it’s supposedly hosting an
average icy volume of 15 million tonnes per northern pole crater
that’s fully shaded from sunlight, and by rights the south pole that’s
equally remote measured by LRO as only slightly warmer, has
considerably greater volumes of shaded craters to interpret as also
hosting ice, because hypothetically it has to be there.
Such hypothetical moon ice that’s getting mainstream hyped as though
it’s objectively existing is technically worth considerably more than
its weight in gold, and the Selene L1 is worth perhaps even more
because it’s the only viable to/from gateway as for managing such
logistyics, whereas ignoring its zero delta-V is like ignoring that
NASA certified lunar cache of water/ice that’s worth <$1.6 million
trillion by itself, not to mention what the moon(Selene) itself
suddenly becomes worth because of having such a terrific natural
resource that’s imperative for not only sustaining life but also on
behalf of applied technology that’ll dig out, process and export
whatever else we need that Earth can’t provide.
Of course, just introducing a warm moonsuit that’s giving off a few
hundred watts of energy (say 500 watts), as for going into any of
those cryogenic crater environments would likely cause that ice to
rapidly sublime upon touch. So, perhaps only the most cold blooded
robotics can ever be sent in for retrieving any of that ice, although
a special vacuum or siphon hose that can be artificially heated might
do the trick of controlled subliming, because otherwise such ice would
become explosive once exposed to sunlight or even earthshine.
Using our supposedly icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our
local gateway for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should
logically include the moon itself and our extremely nearby planet
Venus, is not something we can afford to continually ignore, unless we
can all master the Mandarin language and accept their well established
customs of accepting anything and everything our new government has to
say.
Moon water/ice is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
Obviously not as any off-world product that’s delivered to us from the
moon, but instead that’s what it’s honestly worth to us for simply
existing there as is, because that means we don't have to pay anything
or further delay anything because of any water shortage.
Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas it being perfectly
solid or not (such as 0.1% hollow) isn’t the primary factor, whereas
instead such asteroids are often porous (meaning somewhat less than
solid) and offer those rare and valuable elements that are extremely
interesting to William Mook and many of us (including myself), except
for that part of us each being a good century dead before the first of
any other asteroid is ever artificially captured in a polar LEO,
systematically taken apart and its supposed good stuff delivered to
Earth, at perhaps such asteroid minerals and rare elements being worth
as little as $1M/ kg is perhaps not something worth holding our
breath, or having to fork out that kind of loot unless that asteroid
were made extensively of platinum and radium.
Is that icy bleed-off of hydrogen and oxygen some how cloaked, such as
binding itself up with all the sodium that apparently our LRO can’t
detect?
illumination via earthshine should remain as cold enough to sustain
craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even liquid radon
shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated within the
perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar illumination
or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within that same
cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or perhaps something less
heated (>25 K), giving those Stirling solar energy conversions their
basic thermal dynamic differential of <365 K to work with, even though
earthshine would otherwise provide considerable illumination plus
offering a little IR to work by. Too bad we still do not have any
cache of science instruments within the Earth-moon L1(Selene L1), or
much less situated upon the lunar surface that can be called upon to
report the local conditions.
Btw, hypothetically there’s other intelligent life existing/coexisting
on Venus, and thus hypothetically our government has been covering
this up, because there’s nothing in the laws of physics or otherwise
of our best available science that’ll exclude such an interpretation.
In NASA approved infomercial terminology; hypothetical = objective
proof positive that gets public funded and media hyped as though it’s
the one and only truth or game in town.
Brad Guth
deeper?
logistics, whereas ignoring its zero delta-V is like ignoring that
Are any of those cryogenic polar moon craters a good place to drill
deeper?
Or is 26 K a little too cold for even good robotics? (perhaps a nearby
seasonal crater that gives more acceptable temperatures shouldn’t be
all that hard to find)
Btw; hypothetically there’s other intelligent life existing/
coexisting on Venus, and thus hypothetically our government has been
The Chief Instigator
> Are we being hypothetically mooned by our NASA?
> It seems now we also have those insisting that our moon was never
> orbiting significantly closer or much less ever hot, tilted or
> rotating outside of being Earth locked to begin with, so no wonder
> their purely subjective hypothesis that?s based entirely on
> interpreting them cold spots as having ice that essentially can?t ever
> vaporize/sublime regardless of whatever vacuum or local energy, and
> hotter, more tilted or having rotated outside of having been forever
> tidal locked to Earth.
$1.6 quintillion, eh? Maybe you should have learned how to count, among a
few thousand other considerations.
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2009-10 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: Peoria 4, Houston 1 (March 27)
NEXT GAME: Sunday, March 28 at Peoria, 3:05
Brad Guth
> On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 05:25:29 -0700 (PDT), Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Are we being hypothetically mooned by our NASA?
> > It seems now we also have those insisting that our moon was never
> > orbiting significantly closer or much less ever hot, tilted or
> > rotating outside of being Earth locked to begin with, so no wonder
> > their purely subjective hypothesis that's based entirely upon
> > interpreting them cold spots as having ice that essentially can't ever
> > vaporize/sublime regardless of whatever vacuum or local energy, and
> > hotter, more tilted or having rotated outside of having been forever
> > tidal locked to Earth.
>
> $1.6 quintillion, eh? Maybe you should have learned how to count, among a
> few thousand other considerations.
>
> --
> www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2009-10 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
> LAST GAME: Peoria 4, Houston 1 (March 27)
> NEXT GAME: Sunday, March 28 at Peoria, 3:05
1.6 billion tonnes of water/ice that's worth <$1M/kg if we had to put
it there, as such works out to $1.6e18, or whatever fancier
terminology of loot turns you on.
I did say, that even if that logistics cost per kg were somehow made
as low as $1000, as such that's still worth $1.6e15
($1,600,000,000,000,000.00)
Of course unless serious human settlements (mostly underground/
interior) are considered, or extensive mining operations anticipated,
there shouldn't be any need to draw down more than 1% of that ice for
the remainder of this century. Perhaps by then China can manage to
deploy a tonne of fresh water to either of those lunar polar crater
environments for as little as $1M, and otherwise it gets especially
cheap and easy if utilizing my LSE-CM/ISS.
~ BG
Brad Guth
Greenland trace ammonium of 12,900 BP, than you might think.
On Mar 31, 3:46 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Signs of giant comet impacts found in cores
> An uptick in ammonium may be evidence of a 50-billion-ton strike at the
> end of the ice age. http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant_comet_impacts_found_in_cores_
How about instead of 5e13 kg, we considering an impactor of 8e22 kg,
as a kind of glancing icy sucker-punch from the rear?
Our moon/Selene supposedly still offers pockets of original ice, loads
of aluminum/bauxite as well as sodium plus any number of lighter and
heavier elements. Possibly there's ammonium salt as part of that
lunar lithosphere or remaining from its once thick ice covered
surface. Ammonium nitrate at 1.725 g/cm3 and a boiling point of 210°C
seems rather suited as something failsafe to that lunar environment
that seriously lacks O2. Even Ammonium hydroxide seems doable if it
were bonded within the cryogenic lunar ice.
You know, according to my previous swags or subjective interpretations
and subsequent rants on behalf of this weird notion of something very
big and icy smacking into us from the rear, and glancing off after
conceivably creating our Arctic ocean basin, causing loads of
antipodes such as Antarctica, as well as increasing our seasonal tilt
as of 12,900 BP, sounds about right.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant_comet_impacts_found_in_cores_
"In the April Geology, researchers describe finding chemical
similarities in the cores between a layer corresponding to 1908, when
a 50,000-metric-ton extraterrestrial object exploded over Tunguska,
Siberia, and a deeper stratum dating to 12,900 years ago."
~ BG
> its weight in gold, and theSeleneL1 is worth perhaps even more
> Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of ourSeleneL1, as
> vented/sublimed gas. Since we still have nothing situated withinSeleneL1, it seems our best independent science can’t hardly
> cache of water/ice, nor the subsequent pollution and/or negativeimpactto our terrestrial environment for having to launch that volume
> of water).
>
> Even when it’s fully robotic accomplished for getting such water
> delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
> $10,000/kg, making that existing 1.6 billion tonnes worth only $16,000
> trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing lunar
> basalt would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of
> going after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/
> radioactive elements that should exist.
>
> The eventual relocating of our moon(Selene) to Earth L1 should not in
> of itself cause any loss of that supposed hidden ice, because those
> always shaded basins of such polar craters should remain below 36 K or
> perhaps even closer to 26 K, especially with our moon having somewhat
> less seasonal tilt, as well as the side facing the secondary IR
> illumination via earthshine should remain as cold enough to sustain
> craters hosting liquid nitrogen (63 K) and perhaps even liquid radon
> shouldn’t be unexpected, plus those craters situated within the
> perpetual circumference terminator (as receiving no solar illumination
> or secondary IR from Earth) should by rights fall within that same
> cryogenic realm of hosting at least 35 K or perhaps something less
> heated (>25 K), giving those Stirling solar energy conversions their
> basic thermal dynamic differential of <365 K to work with, even though
> earthshine would otherwise provide considerable illumination plus
> offering a little IR to work by. Too bad we still do not have any
> cache of science instruments within the Earth-moon L1(SeleneL1), or
Brad Guth
11,712 BP is when those thick clouds finally began to break and allow
sunlight to reach the mostly glacial covered ground, plus we had that
moon/Selene well established in its orbit.
Until 11,712 BP, not an intelligent soul on Eden/Earth even knew we
had a moon.
~ BG
On Mar 28, 1:24 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Brad Guth
would take if we hand to get it there and safely store in a similar
cryogenic crater that never gets solar or earthshine illuminated, as
well as ideally where the surrounding geothermal heat doesn't exceed
10 mw/m2. (a surrounding thick lithosphere as well as thick ice are
actually good thermal insulators)
However, in order to keep our raw ice from exploding before or during
placement into such a shaded crater and logistical vacuum of 3e-15 bar
would mean that such ice be at least liquid nitrogen cryogenic to
start with, and the transfer accomplished only by earthshine.
~ BG
On Apr 1, 4:50 am, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Perhaps there’s more terrestrial history to that moon ice and the
> Greenland trace ammonium of 12,900 BP, than we might think. As of
> 11,712 BP is when those thick clouds finally began to break and allow
> sunlight to reach the mostly glacial covered ground, plus we had that
> moon/Selene well established in its orbit.
>
> On Mar 31, 3:46 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Signs of giant comet impacts found in cores
> > An uptick in ammonium may be evidence of a 50-billion-ton strike at the
> > end of the ice age.http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant...
>
> How about instead of 5e13 kg, we considering an impactor of 8e22 kg,
> as a kind of glancing icy sucker-punch from the rear?
>
> Our moon/Selene supposedly still offers pockets of original ice, loads
> of aluminum/bauxite as well as sodium plus any number of lighter and
> heavier elements. Possibly there's ammonium salt as part of that
> lunar lithosphere or remaining from its once thick ice covered
> surface. Ammonium nitrate at 1.725 g/cm3 and a boiling point of 210°C
> seems rather suited as something failsafe to that lunar environment
> that seriously lacks O2. Even Ammonium hydroxide seems doable if it
> were bonded within the cryogenic lunar ice.
>
> You know, according to my previous swags or subjective interpretations
> and subsequent rants on behalf of this weird notion of something very
> big and icy smacking into us from the rear, and glancing off after
> conceivably creating our Arctic ocean basin, causing loads of
> antipodes such as Antarctica, as well as increasing our seasonal tilt
> as of 12,900 BP, sounds about right.
>
> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant...
Brad Guth
would take if we hand to get it there and safely store in a similar
cryogenic crater that never gets solar or earthshine illuminated, as
well as ideally where the surrounding geothermal heat doesn't exceed
10 mw/m2. (a surrounding thick lithosphere as well as thick ice are
actually good thermal insulators)
However, in order to keep our raw ice from exploding before or during
placement into such a shaded crater and logistical vacuum of 3e-15 bar
would mean that such ice be at least liquid nitrogen cryogenic to
start with, and the transfer accomplished only by earthshine.
By any chance, are any of those cryogenic polar moon craters a good
place to drill and penetrate deeper?
On the other hand; are we being hypothetically mooned by our NASA?
It seems now we also have those insisting that our moon was never
orbiting significantly closer or much less ever hot, tilted or
rotating outside of being Earth locked to begin with, so no wonder
there’s still a cache of ice in them thar deep polar craters, whereas
their purely subjective hypothesis that’s based entirely on
interpreting them cold spots as having ice that essentially can’t ever
vaporize/sublime regardless of whatever vacuum or local energy, and
we’re supposed to accept that our moon(Selene) hasn’t ever been any
hotter, more tilted or having rotated outside of having been forever
tidal locked to Earth.
How the heck does such an originally molten rock that’s placed into
such an extensive vacuum and kept so tidal associated with Earth ever
manage to obtain any such ice to begin with?
Since we’ve had scientific 1 AU orbital capability and station keeping
platforms for roughly a half century (such as accessing our Earth-moon
those cryogenic crater environments would likely cause that naked/raw
ice to rapidly/explosively sublime upon touch. So, perhaps only the
most cold blooded robotics can ever be sent in for retrieving any of
that ice, although a special vacuum or siphon hose that can be
artificially heated might do the trick of controlled subliming,
because otherwise such ice would become explosive once exposed to
sunlight or even earthshine.
Using our supposedly icy moon and it’s nifty zero delta-V L1 as our
local gateway for getting us to/from Mars and other places that should
logically include the moon itself and our extremely nearby planet
Venus, is not something we can afford to continually ignore, unless we
can all master the Mandarin language and accept their well established
customs of accepting anything and everything our new government has to
say.
Moon water/ice is in fact worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
With the local atmospheric surface density of 3e-15 bar (<2e7 atoms/
cm3 by day and considerably less by night), is that icy bleed-off and
subsequent loss of hydrogen and oxygen being somehow cloaked, such as
binding itself up with all that hot sodium of perhaps <100/cm3 that
apparently our LRO isn’t the least bit affected by?
Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
polar craters, such as having formed a protective layer of liquid
nitrogen, a solid lens of co2 or perhaps even liquid hydrogen acting
as a transparent cap or lid, plus otherwise you’d tink most everything
Brad Guth Blog and Google document pages:
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth
wrote:
> Fun question:
>
> Is it possible to own a comet or asteroid ? ;)
>
> Bye,
> Skybuck =D
Yes, including our moon/Selene can be owned by anyone that can setup a
base of essential operations and defend it.
~ BG
Brad Guth
http://deepskycolors.com/pics/astro/2008/10/10-12-2008_MoonColor.jpg
What's the UV secondary/recoil color or fluorescent hue saturation of
lunar ice?
Brad Guth
that hidden moon ice and the Greenland trace ammonium of 12,900 BP
than we might care to think. As of 11,712 BP is when those thick
clouds finally began to break and allow sunlight to reach the mostly
established in its orbit.
On Mar 31, 3:46 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:
: Signs of giant comet impacts found in cores
: An uptick in ammonium may be evidence of a 50-billion-ton strike
: at the end of the ice age.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant_comet_impacts_found_in_cores_
How about instead of the 5e13 kg impactor, we consider an impactor of
8e22 kg, as a kind of glancing icy sucker-punch from the rear?
Our moon/Selene supposedly still offers a few pockets of original ice,
as well as loads of aluminum/bauxite and sodium, plus any number of
lighter and heavier elements. Possibly there's ammonium salt as part
of that lunar lithosphere or remaining from its once thick ice covered
surface. Ammonium nitrate at 1.725 g/cm3 and a boiling point of 210°C
seems rather suited as something failsafe to that lunar environment
that seriously lacks O2. Even Ammonium hydroxide seems doable if it
were bonded within the cryogenic lunar ice.
You know, according to my previous deductive swags or subjective
interpretations and subsequent rants on behalf of this weird notion of
something very big and icy smacking into us from the rear, and
glancing off after conceivably creating our Arctic ocean basin,
causing loads of antipodes such as Antarctica, as well as increasing
our seasonal tilt as of 12,900 BP, sounds about right.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/57790/title/Signs_of_giant_comet_impacts_found_in_cores_
"In the April Geology, researchers describe finding chemical
similarities in the cores between a layer corresponding to 1908, when
a 50,000-metric-ton extraterrestrial object exploded over Tunguska,
Siberia, and a deeper stratum dating to 12,900 years ago."
Until some time after 11,712 BP, apparently not an intelligent
artistic soul on Eden/Earth even knew we had a moon, because there’s
simply no mention, scribbles, paintings, carvings or anything
suggestive of those ice-age era folks as having such a vibrant
nighttime orb to survive by, and those ice-age nighttime skies by
rights should have been extensively crystal clear, as well as by day
and earthshine, whereas that daytime visible moon should have been
seriously impressive.
~ BG
On Apr 1, 2:43 pm, Brad Guth <bradg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Brad Guth
> Perhaps there’s more science and terrestrial history connected with
> that hidden moon ice and the Greenland trace ammonium of 12,900 BP
> than we might care to think. As of 11,712 BP is when those thick
> clouds finally began to break and allow sunlight to reach the mostly
> glacial covered ground, plus we had that moon/Selene getting well
> established in its orbit.
>
> On Mar 31, 3:46 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:
> : Signs of giant comet impacts found in cores
> : An uptick in ammonium may be evidence of a 50-billion-ton strike
>
> How about instead of the 5e13 kg impactor, we consider an impactor of
> 8e22 kg, as a kind of glancing icy sucker-punch from the rear?
>
> Our moon/Selene supposedly still offers a few pockets of original ice,
> as well as loads of aluminum/bauxite and sodium, plus any number of
> lighter and heavier elements. Possibly there's ammonium salt as part
> of that lunar lithosphere or remaining from its once thick ice covered
> surface. Ammonium nitrate at 1.725 g/cm3 and a boiling point of 210°C
> seems rather suited as something failsafe to that lunar environment
> that seriously lacks O2. Even Ammonium hydroxide seems doable if it
> were bonded within the cryogenic lunar ice.
>
> You know, according to my previous deductive swags or subjective
> interpretations and subsequent rants on behalf of this weird notion of
> something very big and icy smacking into us from the rear, and
> glancing off after conceivably creating our Arctic ocean basin,
> causing loads of antipodes such as Antarctica, as well as increasing
> our seasonal tilt as of 12,900 BP, sounds about right.
>
> "In the April Geology, researchers describe finding chemical
> similarities in the cores between a layer corresponding to 1908, when
> a 50,000-metric-ton extraterrestrial object exploded over Tunguska,
> Siberia, and a deeper stratum dating to 12,900 years ago."
>
> Until some time after 11,712 BP, apparently not an intelligent
> artistic soul on Eden/Earth even knew we had a moon, because there’s
> simply no mention, scribbles, paintings, carvings or anything
> suggestive of those ice-age era folks as having such a vibrant
> nighttime orb to survive by, and those ice-age nighttime skies by
> rights should have been extensively crystal clear, as well as by day
> and earthshine, whereas that daytime visible moon should have been
> seriously impressive.
>
> ~ BG
Why all the Usenet/newsgroup lights going out on this topic?
Is there something about our physically dark but colorful moon that's
so mineral saturated that we're not supposed to know about?
~ BG
Brad Guth
What does it mean when my Google groups account reports that I have
“10155 views of your messages”
Brad Guth
Is there something weird about our physically dark but otherwise
colorful moon (especially via UV illumination) that's so mineral
saturated, that we're not supposed to know about?
~ BG
> Brad Guth / Blog and Google document pages:
> http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth
> Why are all the Usenet/newsgroup lights going out on this topic?
>
> Is there something weird about our physically dark but otherwise
> colorful moon (especially via UV illumination) that's so mineral
> saturated, that we're not supposed to know about?
Apparently this water/ice infomercial thing about our moon/Selene is
just another typical ruse that our public loot gets to pay for.
There's been multiple other instruments covering those exact same
areas, and they each came up dry, so to speak, as well as the best
available terrestrial based or LEO established spectrometry is still
reporting zilch worth of any lunar h2o indicators, unless extensive
amounts of sodium and bits of nitrogen are any part of that hidden
ice.
I wonder what these same NASA approved wizards have to say about the
planet Venus (Venus fact sheet revised)?
NASA Magellan:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/magellan/
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/mission_page/VN_Magellan_page1.html
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/magellan.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magellan_probe
Brad Guth: Blog and Google document pages
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth
> Moon water is worth <$1,600,000 trillion as is:
> Obviously not as any product that’s delivered to us from the moon, but
> instead that’s what it’s worth to us for simply existing there as is,
> because that means we don't have to pay anything or further delay
>
> Our moon is very much like an asteroid, whereas solid or not, such
> asteroids of rare elements are extremely interesting to William Mook
> and many if us (including myself), except for that part of us each
> being a century dead before the first of any other asteroid is ever
> artificially captured in a polar LEO, systematically taken apart and
> little as $1M/ kg.
>
> On the other hand, what can be realistically accomplished with our
> moon(Selene) and within this decade (on loot that's borrowed from
> China none the less)?
>
> Seems getting whatever to/from the zero delta-V of our Selene L1, as
> one that we can all directly keep our eyes on whatever is robotic or
> stable orbit as is, as well as having such a usable L1 that’s mutually
> gateway beneficial (especially once there’s a lunar space elevator
> established) is perhaps going to be worthy of exporting valuable
> little as $10/kg.
>
> According to everything from our NASA/Apollo era and their supposed
> expertise, there's hardly ever any solar or cosmic radiation to fret
> otherwise entirely passive(non-reactive), whereas hardly anything gets
> electrostatic charged, as well as rogue meteors and whatever other
> surrounding our moon isn't even a problem worth mentioning, and
> apparently it's even icy cold while working that trek between Earth
> and our moon (checkout Apollo 13 for that science of being fully solar
> illuminated yet somehow freezing their butts off). So what could
> mostly passive, plus loads of secondary IR from the moon as well as
> coming off Earth, and otherwise it’s more than freezing cold for
> on steroids)
>
> Now it seems we're being further informed by our NASA approved
> infomercial science that 40 of those Northern polar craters upon of
> our moon have hidden 600 million cubic meters worth of raw surface ice
> that's immune to the laws of physics, as extremely frozen h2o
> coexisting at an extreme vacuum of 3e-15 bar none the less, and yet
> there has never been any previously observed hint of such h2o vapors,
> emerging out of any of those craters, though at the same time and as
> of more than a decade before we've extensively documented the
> extensively surrounding and comet like trailing away from our moon,
> with not a hint of any h2o or other trace indicators within any of
> that.
>
> Perhaps there's considerably greater atmospheric pressure within those
> hydrogen acting as a cap or lid, and yet apparently our considerably
> more spendy and technologically advanced LRO mission can't seem to
> replicate squat on behalf of any of that supposed discovery of such
> volumes of lunar ice. So here we go again, with the usual 'on again -
> of physics and obfuscate as to whatever they don't like, and otherwise
> always receiving as much public funded mainstream hype on demand as
>
> Considering those much greater South polar craters and their equally
> whereas perhaps there's at least another billion cubic meters worth of
> actually still not very much ice, but at the real cost of perhaps $1M/
> kg as safely fly-by-rocket imported from Earth and otherwise safely
> stored on the moon for future use, whereas that 1.6 billion tonnes of
> existing ice becomes worth $1.6 million trillion (not to mention the
> human safety advantages of our not having to manage any of the complex
> and risky fly-by-rocket performed logistics of getting ourselves to/
> from that naked surface in order to transfer and build up whatever
>
> Even when it’s robotic-ally accomplished for getting such water
> delivered to our moon, at the very least it would still be worth
> trillion as is. As otherwise water extracted from vaporizing basalt
> would also be relatively spendy unless it were a byproduct of going
> after something else like 3He and those valuable isotope/radioactive
>
> BradGuth Blog and Google document pages:
> http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
> http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Can't but notice how all the moon-ice spewing hype from our NASA and
associates has come to a complete stop. It's almost as though they
were telling us lies again, because otherwise nothing is adding up.
~ BG
Brad Guth
Perhaps some of our hidden moon ice is actually Sirius(B) or Venus
ice.
Lo and behold, it seems solar systems (not unlike our own) do in fact
manage to capture a few spare planets and their moons.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100413071749.htm
“"This is a real bomb we are dropping into the field of exoplanets,"
says Amaury Triaud, a PhD student at the Geneva Observatory who, with
Andrew Cameron and Didier Queloz, leads a major part of the
observational campaign.””
In other kind words of my best deductive logic, this kind of exoplanet
astronomy is interpreting as though it’s entirely possible for rogue
planets and/or proto-moons to be captured by whatever complex
happenstance of an available solar system that’s situated in the path/
trajectory of such available items. As otherwise retrograde orbits of
any sort shouldn’t exist, and yet such retrogrades do exist, whereas
then too must prograde captures have to be allowed within those same
cosmic cards of similar or greater probability because, a prograde
encounter is far more likely to survive the encounter and settle in
for the long haul.
As long as Earth managed without a moon and less seasonal tilt for so
long, as well as having gotten glacial into the tropics every some odd
hundred thousand years, is yet another perfectly good reason to
reconsider our relocating that physically dark and mineral saturated
sucker, such as out to Earth L1 where it’ll do us the most good. We’d
get an even better Earth-moon L1(Selene L1) to work with, roughly 3%
less solar energy, half the ocean tidal issues and perhaps less than a
forth of the whole-Earth modulation or tidal morphing and subsequent
earthquake triggering to contend with.
Brad Guth / Blog and Google document pages:
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth
> Why are all the Usenet/newsgroup lights going out on this topic?
>
> Is there something weird about our physically dark but otherwise
> colorful moon (especially via UV illumination) that's so mineral
> saturated, that we're not supposed to know about?
>
> ~ BG
Perhaps some of our hidden moon ice is actually Sirius(B) or Venus
ice.
Lo and behold once again, whereas it seems solar systems (not unlike
Brad Guth / Blog and Google document pages:
http://bradguth.blogspot.com/
http://docs.google.com/View?id=ddsdxhv_0hrm5bdfj
Brad Guth
IF it's so simple to get safely to/from our moon, and so much so that
keeping detailed R&D records wasn't necessary, then why haven't we
been there on a regular basis?
~ BG