Seti Needs Help
houn...@gmail.com
More data = more crunchers
"A New Deluge of Data from Arecibo
The Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico, which is the largest radio
telescope in the world and was seen by many movie-goers in the 1997
film Contact, has recently received an upgrade that allows it 40 times
more frequency coverage and seven regions of the sky simultaneously
rather than one. This upgrade has generated 500 times more SETI data
than before. Chief Project Scientist Dan Werthimer explains that "That
means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original
SETI@home.""
Wayne Brown
I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs
and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is
required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
--
Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> (HPCC #1104)
Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
riserman
> houn...@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help
>>
>> More data = more crunchers
>>
>> "A New Deluge of Data from Arecibo
>>
>> The Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico, which is the largest radio
>> telescope in the world and was seen by many movie-goers in the 1997
>> film Contact, has recently received an upgrade that allows it 40 times
>> more frequency coverage and seven regions of the sky simultaneously
>> rather than one. This upgrade has generated 500 times more SETI data
>> than before. Chief Project Scientist Dan Werthimer explains that "That
>> means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original
>> SETI@home.""
>
> I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs
> and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is
> required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
>
What's wrong with BOINC? I've been running SETI and another project
using BOINC (with current updates) and have no complaints at all. Was
the "old SETI@home faster?
riserman
Matt Giwer
> houn...@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help
>>
>> More data = more crunchers
>>
>> "A New Deluge of Data from Arecibo
>>
>> The Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico, which is the largest radio
>> telescope in the world and was seen by many movie-goers in the 1997
>> film Contact, has recently received an upgrade that allows it 40 times
>> more frequency coverage and seven regions of the sky simultaneously
>> rather than one. This upgrade has generated 500 times more SETI data
>> than before. Chief Project Scientist Dan Werthimer explains that "That
>> means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original
>> SETI@home.""
>
> I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs
> and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is
> required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
While I like the Purity of Our Essence as much as the next guy, BOINC is a
generalization of the concept proven by SETI@HOME. If you run it and only
subscribe to S@H it is no different from the original S@H. I don't see your
problem.
--
Palestine/Israel is simple. Moslems want their property back. Jews want to
steal more. That is all you need to know to understand everything that is
happening.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3912
http://www.giwersworld.org a1
Odysseus
riserman <rise...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Wayne Brown wrote:
<snip>
> > I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs
> > and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is
> > required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
>
> What's wrong with BOINC? I've been running SETI and another project
> using BOINC (with current updates) and have no complaints at all. Was
> the "old SETI@home faster?
It did something like one-tenth the analysis that the current app does,
and with no provision for cross-checking the results.
Wayne will be waiting indefinitely. Without BOINC the S@h project would
have died two or three years ago due to lack of funding (it's barely
getting by now, more or less on BOINC's coattails), and it's extremely
unlikely that we'll see a stand-alone client again.
See <http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/~mattl/facts.php>.
--
Odysseus
Wayne Brown
It's overkill. I don't want some complex system designed to run multiple
projects. The Classic client was a simple, standalone, easy-to-install
program. BOINC requires all sorts of configuration that wasn't necessary
with the old client.
All that interests me is an executable file that I can drop into the
same directory where the Classic client was installed and have it work
with my old scripts with no changes needed. That's not how BOINC works,
and so I'm not interested.
Wayne Brown
> Wayne Brown wrote:
>> houn...@gmail.com wrote <299b0944-b201-47cf...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>>> http://space-exploration.suite101.com/article.cfm/setihome_needs_more_help
>>>
>>> More data = more crunchers
>>>
>>> "A New Deluge of Data from Arecibo
>>>
>>> The Arecibo telescope in Puerto Rico, which is the largest radio
>>> telescope in the world and was seen by many movie-goers in the 1997
>>> film Contact, has recently received an upgrade that allows it 40 times
>>> more frequency coverage and seven regions of the sky simultaneously
>>> rather than one. This upgrade has generated 500 times more SETI data
>>> than before. Chief Project Scientist Dan Werthimer explains that "That
>>> means we are 500 times more likely to find ET than with the original
>>> SETI@home.""
>>
>> I'll be glad to help, as soon as they release a client that installs
>> and runs just like the old SETI@home client. But as long as BOINC is
>> required, there's no way I'll resume my participation.
>
> While I like the Purity of Our Essence as much as the next guy, BOINC is a
> generalization of the concept proven by SETI@HOME. If you run it and only
> subscribe to S@H it is no different from the original S@H. I don't see your
> problem.
Can you spend 30 seconds unpacking it into the same directory as the old
client, and then ignore it until the next update comes along, like I used
to do with the Classic client? No, because BOINC doesn't work that way,
so I don't want it on my systems.
Jim Shaffer
wrote:
>All that interests me is an executable file that I can drop into the
>same directory where the Classic client was installed and have it work
>with my old scripts with no changes needed. That's not how BOINC works,
>and so I'm not interested.
Scripts? With the BOINC manager, you don't need scripts.
Matt Giwer
What you do not want you will not have. However your reasons are nonsense.
--
Don't let the weather spoil your Holocaust Day Bar-B-Que plans.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3916
http://www.giwersworld.org a1
Jan Knutar
> What you do not want you will not have. However your reasons are nonsense.
The guy has a point. The classic client was quick to setup, requiring zero
thought. If it takes too many clicks and too many questions need to be
answered by the user, then the amount of users who give up or quit halfway
through will increase. The devoted fancrowd will always go through all the
extra steps and do whatever it takes, but the big masses wont. It's an
important point to consider if one wants more people to analyze workunits.
Jacob Krolo
The guy has a point. The classic client was quick to setup, requiring zero
thought.
Yes, and I'll be glad to help and employ extra PC capacities, but I must
agree with
Wayne Brown when he says, 'as long as BOINC is required, there's no
way to resume participation. On 23rd of Dec. 2005., my computers stopped
processing Seti@Home Classic Work Units and that was it.
Jan Knutar is absolutely right with his conclusion (It's an important point
to
consider if one wants more people to analyze workunits.)
Jacob
Matt Giwer
Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the
problems I was reading about here and as I had four machines to keep working at
the time. But when I got around to do it I recall no problems doing so. Boinc is
a separate product. Once installed do not see any difference between the old and
new S@H steps to set up. Boinc was trivial on linux.
--
If Ron Paul is doing well after Super Tuesday he will soon die of natural
causes. In politics, assassination is a natural cause.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 3911
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo3/holo-survivors.phtml a3
Trevor
I agree with Wayne here, I run BOINC because I like helping on the
project, actually I'm in both SETI@home and Rosetta@home but the old
days were nice. It seems like I have to constantly "check up" on BOINC
and make sure its functioning and then report finished chunks and make
sure that things are downloading properly. Plus I like having the old
graphical screensaver. The new graphics move around too much purely for
effect and the BOINC screensaver is quite boring.
Wayne Brown
>
> Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the
> problems I was reading about here and as I had four machines to keep working at
> the time. But when I got around to do it I recall no problems doing so. Boinc is
> a separate product. Once installed do not see any difference between the old and
> new S@H steps to set up. Boinc was trivial on linux.
Can you leave it running for weeks or months at a time without paying
any attention to it at all, or even remembering it's there?
Wayne Brown
But I already have them. They're automated as cron jobs so I don't have
to look at them or pay any attention to them. With the old client,
I could forget about it and let it run for weeks at a time without
thinking about it. That doesn't seem to be the case with BOINC.
I spent considerable time and effort getting my systems set up to run
Seti@home without any monitoring or intervention from me. Essentially,
I'm not interested in doing anything with SETI that requires changing
the way my systems work or learning anything new about the software.
Unpacking the occasional update into the installation directory is the
only involvement I'm willing to have with running it.
Matt Giwer
> Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.remover.rr.com> wrote <4789bb4d$0$5105$4c36...@roadrunner.com> in sci.astro.seti:
>> Perhaps my memory is failing. However I put switching almost to the end for the
>> problems I was reading about here and as I had four machines to keep working at
>> the time. But when I got around to do it I recall no problems doing so. Boinc is
>> a separate product. Once installed do not see any difference between the old and
>> new S@H steps to set up. Boinc was trivial on linux.
>
> Can you leave it running for weeks or months at a time without paying
> any attention to it at all, or even remembering it's there?
I do exactly that. It is often a week or two between checking if it is working.
It has always been working. And a couple years ago that was true running on
three machines at one time. The fact that I wanted to run it on several machines
and concern over having to take care of it is why I did not install it until
about a month before the original version was going off-line.
Jonathan Bennett
Sure, running software on our systems that either eats up all our systems
resources, or eats up all our time working on installations or maintenance
can come with its drawbacks. But, the most important thing is that we all
have the same aims, the same goals, and the same prize placed ahead of us.
The systems that run at Arecibo are so much more time consuming, resource
consuming, and cash consuming than simple applications like BOINC that can
run on platforms like MS Windows or Linux. We all know that the more
advances we make into radio telescope and spectral analysis technologies
will come with their highs and lows. If every time we came across a hurdle
in the SETI, we just moaned about how difficult it is/was; or time consuming
it may be, we will never make that all important discovery.
We all know that working with computers can be challenging at times.
Sometimes, working with computers can be so frustrating that we just want to
throw in the towel. The one thing that we all know is that, even through all
the tough times we go through with the systems we use can be tough, when we
get the outcome we expected, and the reaction we wanted, it makes all the
coding, tweaking, and debugging even more sweeter!
So the new S@H software is a little tough to get running. That doesn't
change the way that the SETI has been coordinated. Being faced with removal
of project funding, complications of running radio telescopes of that
magnitude, and the approach that most of the borderline "skeptic believers"
take towards the SETI, people like Seth Shostak take it on the chin and keep
on pushing until there's no more room to push.
There's one thing I have to say to you all...
One day, we as a species may find an intelligence not that dissimilar from
us in a star system away from our own. Whether the system that detects their
radio transmissions is either a desktop PC, or a supercomputer, the result
will be the same. If we do detect that signal, everything about us; our
culture; our reality; our seclusion will all change. The probability is that
if we do detect that signal, it will probably be so far away that we won't
be able to contact them back before our technological adolescence leads us
to our demise. However, it does not remove the means from the end. If we
find that signal, and can verify that it is a genuine sign of extra
terrestrial life other than ourselves, we will finally have the answer to
the question we have been asking ourselves for as long as we have been
sentient beings gazing into the night skies. Whether you are the person that
finds the signal, or the last person to know that it has been found, it will
not lose its significance in the slightest. Don't be phased by complicated
software, because if you are still reading this post, then that means you
really want it, no more or less than the founders of the SETI. If you want
it bad enough, put in your contribution, show your commitment and support,
and maybe one day that narrow band, ET signal may come through. When that
time comes, you will know that all the struggle was worth it. If you thought
any different, you wouldn't still be reading this post!!!
Now quit with the complaints, and show your patriotic side! We all want that
signal to come through, so the more people that join in and help with the
SETI, the higher the probability rises of us discovering it before our
technological adolescence destroys us! Time is not on our side people! So
what are we going to do? Will it come to the point where ET finds our
broadcasts, come looking for us, and find a baron graveyard like Mars? Or
will we find them in time to let them know that they are not alone too?
Fight the good fight people. We all know that nothing worth fighting for
comes easy, whether it is running the BOINC system, or cleaning the optic
fibre cables that connect the RT's to the computers. We know it is worth it
in the end... That is how the SETI started!
CQ... This is the anomaly signing off... Now lets get stuck in, and give the
SETI the strength it needs: NUMBERS!!!
Odysseus
Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
> I spent considerable time and effort getting my systems set up to run
> Seti@home without any monitoring or intervention from me. Essentially,
> I'm not interested in doing anything with SETI that requires changing
> the way my systems work or learning anything new about the software.
> Unpacking the occasional update into the installation directory is the
> only involvement I'm willing to have with running it.
Most of my BOINC installations run unattended for weeks at a time; the
only settings I've changed for many months are the resource shares for
my evolving mix of projects, and the like -- aside from the alpha and
beta projects, which require closer monitoring, as one might expect. As
for updating science applications, BOINC does that automatically as long
as you're using the 'stock' version supplied by a given project. (I run
third-party optimized SETI@home Enhanced apps, tailored to specific
CPUs, which do require manual updating from time to time -- but that's
my choice.)
Updating the BOINC client must be done by the user, for security
reasons, but such updates are rarely mandatory. The minimum recommended
version for the S@h project (BOINC v5.2.6 -- the current official
download is at around v5.10.30) is about two years old now, but quite a
few users are still running much older ones. For most it truly is
'install-&-forget'.
Bottom line: I only tinker with BOINC as much as I feel like doing.
--
Odysseus
Arcie
settings in 4 months. Only check to see how much work I have completed.
I am running 10 different @home projects at once and Seti@home
functions like the classic version or better in my opinion. Setup was
not as complicated as everyone seems to make it. At my house I have
BOINC running on a linux system using Kubuntu, everything is fine....
Wayne Brown
> Yes BOINC runs without my attention continuously. I haven't bother the
> settings in 4 months. Only check to see how much work I have completed.
Well, that's good. It removes *one* of the objections I have to BOINC.
> I am running 10 different @home projects at once and Seti@home
> functions like the classic version or better in my opinion. Setup was
> not as complicated as everyone seems to make it. At my house I have
> BOINC running on a linux system using Kubuntu, everything is fine....
Not only do I not want to run "10 different @home projects at once,"
I don't even want the software I use to have the capability to do that.
I want one simple little client that does one job, like the old client
used to do. The whole point of BOINC is to provide a framework for
running multiple projects, and I don't want any part of that -- just as
I refuse to have a phone that also takes pictures or plays music.
Also, whether setup is complicated or not isn't the issue; there shouldn't
be any setup needed at all. I've already gone to the trouble of setting
up the Classic client years ago, and any replacement should just drop into
that already-set-up environment and work with absolutely zero changes
needed to make it work. Any setup required beyond unpacking a tar file
in the same directory where the Classic client was installed is out of
the question for me.
Davide
news:299b0944-b201-47cf...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Personally i think that nasa, cause is nationally financed, has all the
money
it needs to get mainframes powerfull how much it wants, much more than
all the power boinc can offers.
I prefer to dedicate my little whit boinc to researches that the USA doesn't
locate at the firsth locations and doesn't finance so much.
So my boinc aims to genome comparisons, cancer aids and diabetes.
I think it's better.
I partecipate with world community grid and superlink@technion and my
40 watts pc is always awake for it.