911 sun angle question
u2...@gmx.net
Just wondering if the author used the correct azimuth and altitude ...
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
IMHO his amazing discovery is
a) very hard to accept
b) the physics leave no room for doubt
... the pictures of UA175 hitting the south tower are fake.
feel free to reject out of hand. That's what I did (at first).
Chris L Peterson
>feel free to reject out of hand. That's what I did (at first).
As you well should have. Amazing how much time these wackos have on
their hands to produce silly analyses. Most silly of all is the belief
that holograms can be projected.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
William Hamblen
I think that people who indulge in this sort of thing either
a) have some delusion
or
b) have some sinister motive
I am not kidding.
u2...@gmx.net
I like to be tolerant.
Anyway, all I was really asking was
did he get the angles right?
Because if he did... its is truely spooky how the port wing could have
been shown shadowed.
Michal
>
> Because if he did... its is truely spooky how the port wing could have
> been shown shadowed.
>
FO with your moon hoax mentality!!!
u2...@gmx.net
> holograms can be projected.
what are holograms, please?
I think what he meant was that there would have been a real-world
component.
The RICK SIEGEL show many helicopters. One emitted an very bright
light, like from a projector.
I don't want to get under your skin, but it is now fairly well
established that the 3 (!) WTC towers were demolished with explosives.
Just a few days ago this documentary was released that shows the
unmistakable evidence.
If you ignore that, I am sorry for you.
If you refuse to see it, you are like the germans in 1930s who
preferred to not see the going-ons, but thereby became guilty in not
stopping further crimes.
I am truly sorry if I offend you, but you will think better of me after
you watched this documentary:
(you see, after the WTC-murder the cgi-fake planes don't seem so
outlandish anymore.. just think deception, perception management,
hollywood...)
Michal
>
> I think that people who indulge in this sort of thing either
>
> a) have some delusion
>
> or
>
> b) have some sinister motive
>
> I am not kidding.
>
I think that people who just believe what they see and what they are told
need a lot of help...
but that's just me.
There is no way a Boeing 757 could have hit the pentagon and left hardly any
wreckage. The damage profile is all suspect too!
Stick this in your pipe a while too
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801
don't be affraid!
u2...@gmx.net
Fuck Off?
Michal,
do I detect anti-free-speech mentality?
I sympathize with you though. (that'll make you mad!)
Moon hoax, crop circles, astrology ... I wish they would go away, too.
Chris L Peterson
>what are holograms, please?
Holograms are virtual images resulting from the transmission or
reflection of light from a phase modifying plate. You can only see them
by looking directly at a physical object like a piece of film. They
cannot be projected except in Star Wars (the movie, not the defense
project).
<silliness snipped>
Joe S.
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149029091.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
When first I read this post I was tempted to reply. Then I recalled a
conversation I had many years ago with my ol' granddaddy.
Granddad dropped out of school before the 8th grade after his father died so
he could support his mother and siblings. Although he lacked formal
education, he was a man of great wisdom and insight.
He was well respected in his (deep south Mississippi) community where he was
a leader in church, business, and community affairs. He read three
newspapers every day, listened to the radio in the mornings and evenings,
and read books of all topics.
One day way back in the early 1950's when I was a gawky young lad prone to
"mischief," Granddad was sitting on the front porch in his rocking chair,
reading his Bible and drinking coffee. I was doing my usual damn fool
something when he called me up and asked me to sit in the rocker next to
him. I did.
Granddad sipped his coffee, closed his Bible and said to me: "Son, you got
to stop going out in the barnyard and wrasslin' with the pigs."
"But, Granddad . . . " I protested.
"Now son, you just got to stop it."
"But why, Granddad?"
"Well, you see, son, when you wrassle with a pig, everybody gets dirty, you
don't solve a thing, but the pig just loves it."
u2...@gmx.net
weird impact at a weird location made by weird people and while there
must be 100 cameras around, its so weird that only two cameras with
lame frame rates detected some wierd going-ons. (The white-hot
explosion-fireball shows serious grade explosives, not jet fuel, [lamp
oil].)
My favourite is the FASTER THAN LIGHT conspiracy:
u2...@gmx.net
Fine, then, Joe..
stay clean, don't engage with pigs.
The Nazis thought of jews the same way. No need to investigate their
claims.
Michal
"Chris L Peterson" <c...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:soqp72585tt4u19f8...@4ax.com...
> On 30 May 2006 17:20:59 -0700, u2...@gmx.net wrote:
>
>>what are holograms, please?
>
> Holograms are virtual images resulting from the transmission or
> reflection of light from a phase modifying plate. You can only see them
> by looking directly at a physical object like a piece of film. They
> cannot be projected except in Star Wars (the movie, not the defense
> project).
not exactly true. There was a show I saw recently that implied holograms
can be projected
Maybe you should crwal out of your horse blinder cave and smell the coffee
u2...@gmx.net
Re: jaw-dropping evidence of 911-inside job:
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
I think that he is right and a large number of phenomena
do not correspond to expected physical reality.
- the incorrect doppler effect in the airplane noise recording
- the missing "turning of heads" when such a large airliner approached,
flying low.
- the absence of any airplane frame crumpling
- the absence of the WTC shadow on the airplane.
.. there is plenty more
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
==== stop reading here ====
TO THE CORRESPONDENTS in news:///sci.astro.amateur
I thought we astronomically minded people could approach apparent
miracles with scientific nosyness.
Instead, here in this group, we get an instant confirmation of human
arrogance and ignorance.
Whats the matter?
Do you feel threatened? Are you afraid of being accused of heresy?
Look, if you have a job to loose, kids to feed, a mortgage to pay.. I
understand.
JUST have the guts to SAY SO.
In the USA and Canada it is quite likely that your career is cut short
if you touch the 911-taboo. Anyone who believes that 911 was engineered
by the US military will be labelled a heretic. Just mention the word
Israel and you are a believer of the 4000-jews-were-warned-myth, and
therefore an anti-semite or a self-hating jew.
Don't even THINK to read the physics-professor Steven Jones analysis of
the WTC collapses that concludes that they were demolished with
explosives and thermite.
http://st911.org << scientiests please take note
Do not show this film to others. Do not get caught downloading it.
50meg fullscreen-quality feature length documentary
BandWidthSaving Torrent: http://www.mininova.org/tor/315997
Player-programme (Real Player 10 GOLD, free, 8mB):
http://forms.real.com/real/realone/realone.html
wg
Joe S.
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149038709.5...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You need a new hat:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
Chris L Peterson
>not exactly true. There was a show I saw recently that implied holograms
>can be projected
No kidding... a show you saw. And an implication. Wow.
George
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149038265....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
> Let us not discuss what hit the pentagon. Suffice to say that it is a
> weird impact at a weird location made by weird people and while there
> must be 100 cameras around, its so weird that only two cameras with
> lame frame rates detected some wierd going-ons. (The white-hot
> explosion-fireball shows serious grade explosives, not jet fuel, [lamp
> oil].)
Those who believe this load of crap have not seen a large explosion of JP-1
fuel, and have no idea what they are talking about.
George
Michal
>
> Those who believe this load of crap have not seen a large explosion of
> JP-1 fuel, and have no idea what they are talking about.
>
> George
Oh, and you do?? How much energy can possibly be produced to vaporize?
That's what you are implying...vaporization...it would take the confined
energy of a
starship phaser to vaporize a 757...
lal_truckee
> On 30 May 2006 15:44:51 -0700, u2...@gmx.net wrote:
>
>> feel free to reject out of hand. That's what I did (at first).
>
> As you well should have. Amazing how much time these wackos have on
> their hands to produce silly analyses. Most silly of all is the belief
> that holograms can be projected.
I can understand wackos with too much time (after all, their life focus
is obviously trivial and boring, leaving much free time) but why do they
think astronomers would be interested? My personal theory is they are in
awe of us major brains who can comprehend math and science and such
truck, and seek our approval just as kindergarteners do.
Fred J. McCall
:Anyone who believes that 911 was engineered
:by the US military will be labelled a heretic.
No, anyone who believes that 911 was engineered by the US military
will be labeled a fucking loon. They will be labeled that because
they ARE a fucking loon and if the shoe fits....
Goodbye, Loon.
<plonk>
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
SZumbo
I will never forget seeing American Airlines Flight 191 crash on takeoff at
Chicago O'Hare airport years ago: It left virtually nothing resembling an
airplane, just a black scar on the ground. I remarked over and over as the
news images replayed on live TV: the plane had practically vaporized. It
was going much slower than the planes that hit the WTC, but was fully
fueled.
Steve
Michal
"SZumbo" <zumb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:xbqdnS_ZFqgihODZ...@comcast.com...
You weren't there ...you saw a short TV clip..very unreliable...you are
speaking as if you were there.
They showed the crash ..NOT the aftermath. You just made some ambiguous
conclusions about it after TV.
Starlord
lives not only in the plane but in the building too. With photoshop you can
make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
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Blast Off Online Gift Shop
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Astro Blog
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<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149041079.5...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Starlord
Island of Hawaii and jump into the main vent of the volcano, after all that
lava is not real either.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
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Blast Off Online Gift Shop
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Astro Blog
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<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149038265....@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
T.T.
If there isn't a newsgroup called
"alt.mindless-damfool-all-purpose-conspiracy-theory-dumping-place-for
ignorant-uncomprehending-whackos", there should be.
George
"Michal" <mi...@cbe.com> wrote in message news:FJ7fg.148$I61.81@clgrps13...
Actually, I do. I've worked as an OSHA certified HAZMAT worker and HAZMAT
emergency response site manager for 16 years, much of that time as a
contractor for the petroleum industry. And no it certainly wouldn't take
such a science fiction amount of energy to vaporize a 757, because first of
all, the plane wasn't vaporized - it disintigrated in the impact.
Secondly, much of the resulting debris was consumed in the fire.
Much of that airplane is aluminum and plastic. Take an aluminum can, place
it into a very hot camp fire, and watch it be consumed before your very
eyes. Aluminum oxydizes rapidly in the presence of atmospheric air (in
fact, when it was first identified as an element, it was kept in a sealed,
airtight container for fear that it would completely oxydize). The only
reason why it doesn't completely oxydize while sitting in air is because
the oxydation process rapidly forms a layer of AlO2 on the surface, which
protects it from further oxydation. In a large inferno such as occurred in
the after math of the Pentagon attack, the aluminum would be consumed
rapidly. Oh, and by the way, the 757 did not completely vaporize. Any
plane flying at nearly full speed and striking a hardened building such as
the Pentagon is going to disintegrate practically on impact. Much of what
is left will be consumed in the fire. However, there were plenty of small
parts left in the wreckage of the Pentagon. Of course, the plastic was
consumed as well.
But don't let the facts stop you from making a complete ass our of
yourself. If you had taken some science courses instead of spending all
your time at political rallies when you went to school (and on conspiracy
theory web sites as an immature adult), you might actually have learned
something about chemistry, physics, and fuel explosions.
George
George
Aluminum is very reactive. In a very hot fire, such as in a jetliner
crash, most of the aluminum will be consumed. So will the plastic, which is
what most of the interior of the plane is composed of. And Jets don't get
vaporized. They disintegrate on impact, and then in the intense heat of
the fuel fire, the oxydation reaction takes over with respect to the
aluminum skin and structure, converting the aluminum to AlO2, much of it
crumbling to powder if the fuel burns long enough and hot enough.
George
u2...@gmx.net
> yourself. If you had taken some science courses instead of spending all
> your time at political rallies when you went to school (and on conspiracy
> theory web sites as an immature adult), you might actually have learned
> something about chemistry, physics, and fuel explosions.
hehe .. you forgot dope-smoking ;-)
George, please zoom through these Peer-reviewed papers:
Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
by Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. (reader comments)
http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
and
The Destruction of the World Trade Center:
Why the Official Account Cannot Be True
by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.
http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
and let us know what you first impression is, Thanks.
u2...@gmx.net
> crash, most of the aluminum will be consumed. So will the plastic, which is
Very good explanation. This would also explain why very little wreckage
was
found underground the crash-site of UA93 in Shanksville.
http://images.google.com/images?q=shanksville
The conspiracy theorists explain the tiny amount of airplane fragments
and the disappearance of all human bodies with, wait for this:
clean plutonium mini-nukes and
planted evidence!!
u2...@gmx.net
Starlord wrote:
> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it, tell that to the people who lost their
> lives not only in the plane but in the building too. With photoshop you can
> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
true. But showing footage that we all saw that morning, and then never
again
is pretty honest in my book. Anyway.. You will have to see it for
yourself.
Godspeed
> 50meg fullscreen-quality feature length documentary
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/video/whatsthetruth/911_WTC_demolition_analysis--WhatsTheTruth-HowIndeedDidTheTwinTowersCollapse.rmvb
Eugene Griessel
>
>Starlord wrote:
>
>> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it, tell that to the people who lost their
>> lives not only in the plane but in the building too. With photoshop you can
>> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
>
>true. But showing footage that we all saw that morning, and then never
>again
>is pretty honest in my book. Anyway.. You will have to see it for
>yourself.
It must be something they put in the water in the USA. You have some
of the finest loons and nuts in the world.
Eugene L Griessel
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance
the nature of the Unknowable.
George
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149056895.7...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
That should give you a clue that these people are a testicle short of a
full nut sack.
George
Starlord
cameras of the plane hitting the DOD building, camera takes one photo every
3 seconds, in the first photo you can see the nose of the plane, the 2nd one
shows the fireball from the crash.
I have always figured that these people that don't belive in what happened
don't have the brain power to know how to wipe their own as* after taking a
sh*t.
And what makes it worst is that they just have to spill their brainless
garbage onto newsgroups where the subject is totaly 100% OFF TOPIC. That's
why I'll not see this dipsticks post unless someone wastes some bandwith and
quotes it back as I have already added them to my killfile.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
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http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
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Blast Off Online Gift Shop
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Astro Blog
http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:447d3a0f...@news.uunet.co.za...
Starlord
plane crashs and they show that planes go off with a very big BANG. Also
remember, the wing fuel tanks are NOT the full fuel supply, theirs a LOT of
fuel in tanks in the BODY of the plan too. When you fly, your flying in a
death trap with fuel all around you.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords
Astro Blog
http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/
" George" <geo...@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote in message
news:LbqdnTZHNNmGreDZ...@insightbb.com...
George
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149056505.0...@f6g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> But don't let the facts stop you from making a complete ass our of
>> yourself. If you had taken some science courses instead of spending all
>> your time at political rallies when you went to school (and on
>> conspiracy
>> theory web sites as an immature adult), you might actually have learned
>> something about chemistry, physics, and fuel explosions.
>
> hehe .. you forgot dope-smoking ;-)
>
> George, please zoom through these Peer-reviewed papers:
>
> Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Collapse?
> by Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. (reader comments)
> http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html
>
Can you say Fleischmann and Pons? What is it about Utah Physicists that
they always give this stuff so wrong? I've seen Dr. Jones's video, and
it's laughable. No doubt he has tenure, or they would have axed his arse
for being an embarrassment to the University.
>
> The Destruction of the World Trade Center:
> Why the Official Account Cannot Be True
> by David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.
> http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html
>
> and let us know what you first impression is, Thanks.
I've seen this bs as well. He's professor emeritus of philosophy of
religion and theology, at the Claremont School of Theology. How does that
qualify him to evaluate engineering issues with regard to 9/11? Answer:
It doesn't.
George
George
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:447d3a0f...@news.uunet.co.za...
>
>>
>>Starlord wrote:
>>
>>> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it, tell that to the people who lost
>>> their
>>> lives not only in the plane but in the building too. With photoshop you
>>> can
>>> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
>>
>>true. But showing footage that we all saw that morning, and then never
>>again
>>is pretty honest in my book. Anyway.. You will have to see it for
>>yourself.
>
> It must be something they put in the water in the USA. You have some
> of the finest loons and nuts in the world.
>
> Eugene L Griessel
I don't know about that. I don't think we have a monopoly on net loons.
George
Eugene Griessel
Maybe not - but nowhere else has such depth of quality, such exquisite
irrationality, such fine deranged loopy eccentrics paranoid with
conspiracy mania. My shares in the Loon Mallet and Aluminium Foil
Beanie industry are secure!
Eugene L Griessel
If you're riding ahead of the herd, take a look back every now
and then to make sure it's still there.
George
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>" George" <geo...@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
>>news:447d3a0f...@news.uunet.co.za...
>>> u2...@gmx.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Starlord wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it, tell that to the people who lost
>>>>> their
>>>>> lives not only in the plane but in the building too. With photoshop
>>>>> you
>>>>> can
>>>>> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
>>>>
>>>>true. But showing footage that we all saw that morning, and then never
>>>>again
>>>>is pretty honest in my book. Anyway.. You will have to see it for
>>>>yourself.
>>>
>>> It must be something they put in the water in the USA. You have some
>>> of the finest loons and nuts in the world.
>>>
>>> Eugene L Griessel
>>
>>I don't know about that. I don't think we have a monopoly on net loons.
>>
>
> Maybe not - but nowhere else has such depth of quality, such exquisite
> irrationality, such fine deranged loopy eccentrics paranoid with
> conspiracy mania. My shares in the Loon Mallet and Aluminium Foil
> Beanie industry are secure!
You apparently have not read any of the looney stuff posted in the internet
by Australian Don Findlay:
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/ee/index.html
Or Australian Dave Ford:
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/launchpad/8098/HomePage.htm
Both base their nonsense on the theory of a Tasmanian Kook.
Or the various proponents of the Hollow Earth Theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth
I should also point out at least one historical European kook:
Nostradamus, kook extraordinaire.
George
u2...@gmx.net
> >>> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it,
> >>> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
> > of the finest loons and nuts in the world.
OK. You have the truth in your pockets.
its the foreigners who are lunatics.
Funny how foreigners who speak english as second language
(whereas most US americans know only english)
are thought of being dumber and have tainted perception.
US americans have their perception manipulated so well,
that they don't even know what is happening to them.
If you would watch CENTURY OF SELF you would
find that this was intentional.
Look, boys (girls are usually not so cock-sure :-)
... just watch the video. You are simply cowards if you don't.
911 WTC demolition analysis
Whats The Truth - How Indeed Did The Twin Towers Collapse
http://www.mininova.org/tor/315997
George
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149063455....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>> >>> Nothing but hogwash and bull s*it,
> ...
>> >>> make all kinds of changes to an image to fit your garbage.
> ..
>> > of the finest loons and nuts in the world.
> ...
>
> OK. You have the truth in your pockets.
>
> its the foreigners who are lunatics.
Umm, all 'furners', or just the ones who think you are a loon?
> Funny how foreigners who speak english as second language
> (whereas most US americans know only english)
> are thought of being dumber and have tainted perception.
>
> US americans have their perception manipulated so well,
> that they don't even know what is happening to them.
You are living proof of your own theory. The difference is that in your
case, someone else is obviously pulling your strings.
> If you would watch CENTURY OF SELF you would
> find that this was intentional.
>
> Look, boys (girls are usually not so cock-sure :-)
> ... just watch the video. You are simply cowards if you don't.
Either/or argument. Irrelevant, of course.
George
Eugene Griessel
Don and I have exchanged acrimonious insults in the past - and I gave
up on the Turdcat too, years back. Yes there are a few outstanding
performers from other countries but in the Olympic Amateur Loon
Contest a few gold medals may slip out of US hands but I'm sure the
majority would go to them!
Eugene L Griessel
Many people quit looking for work when they find a job.
Martin Brown
Michal wrote:
> >
> > Those who believe this load of crap have not seen a large explosion of
> > JP-1 fuel, and have no idea what they are talking about.
>
Roughly 0.5kTonne nuclear yield equivalent - and given that is about
what the energetics of the transcontinental fueled flights delivered it
is not too surprising that there was not much left. The energetics and
kinetics was discussed in detail soon after the event. eg.
NB the physical collapse of each building falling down had an explosive
yeild of roughly 0.1kT.
> That's what you are implying...vaporization...it would take the confined
> energy of a starship phaser to vaporize a 757...
Not at all and anyway aluminium aerospace alloy and foam seats burn
fiercely in their own right once they pass ignition temperature. After
that the fate of a steel framed building with a roughly 1GW fire
burning in the middle of it for 40 minutes is pretty much sealed.
I find it amazing and scary that the US is so ridden with conspiracy
theory fruitcakes.
Maybe the US should round up all its magicians, junk food vendors and
daytime TV show hosts. It is clear that there is something over there
that rots the brain and my crank theory is that one of these three is
to blame... or perhaps it is something in the water? ;-)
Regards,
Martin Brown
u2...@gmx.net
> cameras of the plane hitting the DOD building,
What drugs do you take? They must be good.
Because the frames show NO PLANE HITTING THE BUILDING.
check for youself:
http://www.911blogger.com/2006/05/new-footage-of-911-pentagon-attack.html
> camera takes one photo every
> 3 seconds,
incorrect. 2 seconds? It looks wrong. A slow plane?
make your own judgements.
> in the first photo you can see the nose of the plane, the 2nd one
> shows the fireball from the crash.
I think the nose looks more like a missile... just like in the
FREUDIAN SLIP of Rumsfeld where he said:
================
Q: This is a question that's been asked by many Americans, but
especially by the widows of September 11th. How were we so asleep at
the switch? How did a war targeting civilians arrive on our homeland
with seemingly no warning?
Rumsfeld: There were lots of warnings. The intelligence information
that we get, it sometimes runs into the hundreds of alerts or pieces of
intelligence a week. One looks at the worldwide, it's thousands. And
the task is to sort through it and see what you can find. And as you
find things, the law enforcement officials who have the responsibility
to deal with that type of thing -- the FBI at the federal level, and
although it is not, it's an investigative service as opposed to a
police force, it's not a federal police force, as you know. But the
state and local law enforcement officials have the responsibility for
dealing with those kinds of issues.
They [find a lot] and any number of terrorist efforts have been
dissuaded, deterred or stopped by good intelligence gathering and good
preventive work. It is a truth that a terrorist can attack any time,
any place, using any technique and it's physically impossible to defend
at every time and every place against every conceivable technique. Here
we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines
flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building
and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center. The only
way to deal with this problem is by taking the battle to the
terrorists, wherever they are, and dealing with them.
from
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t11182001_t1012pm.html
> I have always figured that these people that don't belive in what happened
> don't have the brain power to know how to wipe their own as* after taking a
> sh*t.
Impressive statement.
in other words:
THESE PEOPLE should believe what happened that would
make the more intelligent.
I see.
For me, skeptics have been right more often than the people
that fell for propaganda tricks. Like eric the Viking calling it
GREENLAND.
> And what makes it worst is that they just have to spill their brainless
> garbage onto newsgroups where the subject is totaly 100% OFF TOPIC. That's
others BRAINLESS.. garbage
For you "conspiracy theorists" are pure vermin.. right?
you'd enjoy DER EWIGE JUDE.
http://www.mininova.org/tor/173082
newsgroups must be ON TOPIC. JAWOLL MEIN FUEHRER!!
> why I'll not see this dipsticks post unless someone wastes some bandwith and
> quotes it back as I have already added them to my killfile.
you cant see me posting, hehehe..
> The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
showing people the stars and telling them to "believe what happened"
and trying to make money by posting insults.
> Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
> http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
> In Garden Online Gift Shop
> http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
> Blast Off Online Gift Shop
> http://www.cafepress.com/starlords
Chicken Chicken doesn't dare to watch a video.
Chicken Chicken doesn't dare to watch a video.
Chicken Chicken doesn't dare to watch a video.
la la la...
St. John Smythe
> I find it amazing and scary that the US is so ridden with conspiracy
> theory fruitcakes.
Not so amazing, really -- it's sort of inevitable, given our British
roots.
--
St. John
Boren's Laws:
(1) When in charge, ponder.
(2) When in trouble, delegate.
(3) When in doubt, mumble.
Michal
" George" <geo...@wtfiswrongwithyou.com> wrote in message
news:LbqdnTZHNNmGreDZ...@insightbb.com...
>
You're grasping at straws. The FBI even confiscated all security video from
other buildings that caught everything and
only showed the public that pathetic piece of footage.
Michal
"Martin Brown" <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1149068983.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Yeah and Galileo was one too..right?
George
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
But then, there are 300 million people in the U.S. as opposed to 60 million
in Britain, for instance. It stands to reason that there would be
numerical superiority in the U.S., but I'm still not convinced that the
quality control of kookdom is any better here than anywhere else. They are
just more visible because of the fact that usenet has been around here
longer.
George
George
"Michal" <mi...@cbe.com> wrote in message news:Xegfg.105$A8.55@clgrps12...
Pointing out the obviously physical and chemical properties associated with
the destruction of a jetliner in an explosive impact with a harderned
building is NOT grasping at straws. Whether or not the FBI confiscated all
security video is irrelevant to the fact the the plane struck the building,
exploded and disintegrated on impact (as fuel-laden jet aircraft are want
to do in those circumstances), and burned up in the ensuing fuel fire, all
facts that were witnessed by hundreds of people, and all facts that can be
easily verified by the laws of chemistry and physics. Jeez, take a science
class after you get therapy, Mikey.
George
George
"Martin Brown" <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1149068983.9...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
I think they should round them all up and place them in a sealed from with
the nutcake posters in soc.culture.scottish, particularly the ones who
agree with this troll. Then they can all sit in their padded room knitting
sweaters that aren't there. There appears to be an inordinant number of
losers in that newsgroup, for some reason. Thankfully, I know enough real
Scotsmen that I know that they are certainly not a representative sample of
the Scottish population.
George
George
"Michal" <mi...@cbe.com> wrote in message news:nggfg.106$A8.50@clgrps12...
It's the education system. It sucks. And Bush has made it much worse.
George
Chris L Peterson
wrote:
>I can understand wackos with too much time (after all, their life focus
>is obviously trivial and boring, leaving much free time) but why do they
>think astronomers would be interested? My personal theory is they are in
>awe of us major brains who can comprehend math and science and such
>truck, and seek our approval just as kindergarteners do.
Probably true. I looked at the post closely at first because it appeared
to be an interesting forensic astronomy question about the position of
the Sun. Of course, it took only a few minutes reading to figure out
that the matter wasn't worth wasting any further time analyzing.
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
Michal
You still haven't done any science. Just a lot of conjecture. it's what I'd
expect from a HAZMAT techie boy.
If you want to hide your head in the sand be my guest.
To say there were "100's" of witnesses is ludicrous at best.
VBadJuJu
>
>Just wondering if the author used the correct azimuth and altitude ...
>
>http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
>
>IMHO his amazing discovery is
>
>a) very hard to accept
>b) the physics leave no room for doubt
> ... the pictures of UA175 hitting the south tower are fake.
>
I friend of mine was on the 51st floor of the second tower that day
for a meeting. They couldnt see what had happened when the first
plane hit, but the debris in the air and noise etc, they knew
something was up.
Each floor had a person in charge of emergency procedures and they had
just had some sort of practice thing 6 months earlier. The chief for
thier floor was the guy he was meeting with. Within seconds he was
herding people to the exits and veering my friend away from the
elevators.
Each floor had a designated staggered emergency exit stairwell so
that each floor had several stories of open stairs to traverse before
running into traffic from floors below. He/they made the trip down 51
flights in about 20 mins. And he is not in very good shape at all.
They got outside and were leaning against the building partly to rest
and partly to stay out of the debris coming down, The guy who was the
floor chief looked up and had a awestruck look on his face. My friend
looked up to see what he was gawking at to see the second plane coming
in right above them. They ran.
So if on the spot witnesses say they saw a plane and it hit the
building, I believe him. Plus I saw it live on TV - a special effect
would require some sort of tape delay.
Conspiracy whackos forget the on the scene witnesses.
YMMV
Airyx
1. I am amazed that someone would waste so much time putting this
together. That's lot of work and time consuming analysis.
2. It didn't convice me of anything at all. In fact, every issue
raised failed to show me that there is anything wrong with any of the
videos, images, or eyewitness accounts that were analyzed.
u2...@gmx.net
> I just reviewed the web site and I have two comments.
Bravo!
> 1. I am amazed that someone would waste so much time putting this
> together. That's lot of work and time consuming analysis.
I think he is convinced BY OTHER EVIDENCE that it was an inside job,
but went out to find out HOW EXACTLY IT WAS DONE. The videos of
the UA175 impact seemed unreal to everyone, he showed us why.
> 2. It didn't convice me of anything at all. In fact, every issue
> raised failed to show me that there is anything wrong with any of the
> videos, images, or eyewitness accounts that were analyzed.
That's what I thought. But then I did spend a few hours with his
research
and on close inspection it is rather spooky. For example the port wing
shadow
and the fact that the plane should have entered the 13 degree shadow
from the
building ...
Failed to show?
he showed!
SZumbo
> You weren't there ...you saw a short TV clip..very unreliable...you are
> speaking as if you were there.
> They showed the crash ..NOT the aftermath. You just made some ambiguous
> conclusions about it after TV.
The cameras were live on scene from the air and ground for much of that
day's coverage after the crash. There was very little large, recognizable
debris. That _was_ the aftermath. It stuck in my memory _because_ there
was little large debris--nothing that looked like a plane.
My point is that if a fully fueled plane could end up like that after
crashing from a low and slow start, then I'm not surprised that a big plane
impacting three times faster would plough into a building and break up and
burn up so completely.
No bomb required.
Steve
GeoGeorge1
"Michal" <mi...@cbe.com> wrote in message news:Efifg.203$I61.4@clgrps13...
To suggest that anything other than the well-setablished laws of physics
were involved here is a waste of everyone's time, at best. But you appear
to be good at that.
George
Michal
>>
>> You still haven't done any science. Just a lot of conjecture. it's what
>> I'd expect from a HAZMAT techie boy.
>> If you want to hide your head in the sand be my guest.
>> To say there were "100's" of witnesses is ludicrous at best.
>
> To suggest that anything other than the well-setablished laws of physics
> were involved here is a waste of everyone's time, at best. But you appear
> to be good at that.
>
> George
and you're following right along. How many tons of AlO2 was recovered?
There wasn't even
any engine parts or evidence of wing impacts. nothing! Logic and reason
deserves mention here.
The "intense" fire left office furniture and computers untouched. Just a
collapsed roof (much time after the impact)
and a neatly burrowed "hole" that doesn't measure up.
Michal
> The "intense" fire left office furniture and computers untouched. Just a
> collapsed roof (much time after the impact)
> and a neatly burrowed "hole" that doesn't measure up.
Oh and the shearing of the light poles would have sliced the wings up
but I guess all this is just poppycock to an unreasonable mind.
David G. Nagel
Hay. Even though I was watching on television I did see the second
aircraft impact on the tower in real time, LIVE from New York. I
observed the aircraft approach, bank, impact and blow out the opposite
side of the tower. It happened.
Dave N
T.T.
"David G. Nagel" <na...@core.com> wrote in message
news:127sncl...@corp.supernews.com...
CIA or the Pope or Hollywood or someone else faked the moon landings.
If they could do that all those years ago, the same people with modern
technology would find faking the destruction of a few buildings a pushover.
Starlord
CIA or the Pope or Hollywood or someone else faked the moon landings."
And every one of those that posted that garbage didn't have the brains to
kinow to NOT stand under a tree during a thunderstorm. I said it before and
I'll say it agin, anyone that doesn't belive in the moon landings should be
taken to Hawaii and be thrown into the active volcano, that way they could
enjoy the nice hot lava.
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords
Astro Blog
http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/
"T.T." <ton...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Nntfg.1387$ap3....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Rich
<|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Michal wrote:
>> >
>> > Those who believe this load of crap have not seen a large explosion of
>> > JP-1 fuel, and have no idea what they are talking about.
>>
>> Oh, and you do?? How much energy can possibly be produced to vaporize?
>
>Roughly 0.5kTonne nuclear yield equivalent - and given that is about
>what the energetics of the transcontinental fueled flights delivered it
>is not too surprising that there was not much left. The energetics and
>kinetics was discussed in detail soon after the event. eg.
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/browse_frm/thread/a9b3665449c2361/3bfa70b39d2bc8d2?lnk=st&q=Uncle+Al+kilotonne+%2BWTC&rnum=1#3bfa70b39d2bc8d2
>
>NB the physical collapse of each building falling down had an explosive
>yeild of roughly 0.1kT.
>
>> That's what you are implying...vaporization...it would take the confined
>> energy of a starship phaser to vaporize a 757...
>
>Not at all and anyway aluminium aerospace alloy and foam seats burn
>fiercely in their own right once they pass ignition temperature. After
>that the fate of a steel framed building with a roughly 1GW fire
>burning in the middle of it for 40 minutes is pretty much sealed.
>
>I find it amazing and scary that the US is so ridden with conspiracy
>theory fruitcakes.
Half of them are the usual weirdos who believe in things like UFOs or
human bones in coal seams, the other half are just leftwing,
anti-American scum.
-Rich
u2...@gmx.net
" . . . 9/11 was an act of interdependence. Nineteen people came from
other countries . . . use open borders . . . easy travel . . . easy
access to information and technology to turn a bunch of jet airplanes
into CHEMICAL WEAPONS . . . and they studied the plans of the World
Trade Center and they realized that the . . . steel girders weren't
reenforced by concrete and therefore there's nothing to absorb heat and
you can bring these towers down. And they could find all that out on
the Internet."
This address was given as part of the LBJ (University of Texas)School
for Public Affairs' 2006 Commencement Ceremony on May 20, 2006.
Looks like Frank Zappa was right:
Politics is the entertainment branch of big business
Politicians are so ill-informed.
Better listen to what an ex-MI5 agent has to say about it all:
David Shayler, English spy whistleblower
http://www.radio4all.net/proginfo.php?id=17896 (4.32MB mp3)
DL Stats: 193
PDR
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149115376.2...@y43g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> The videos of the UA175 impact seemed unreal to everyone
This must be some new, or previously obscure, usage of the word "everyone".
In my dictioanry it suggests that the word means "the entire population" or
"all persons present" rather than your "Me and the guy in the next bed".
FWIW I don't give two hoots about the videos. My brother was in New York on
that day and personally witnessed the second airliner flying into the second
tower (I only saw it on a live TV feed and I presume that you would claim
this was faked by the CIA or Kentucky Fried Chicken or whoever). If it's all
the same to you I'm more comfortable accepting he word of my brother than
that of you and yiur fellow inmates.
PDR
Peter McLelland
"PDR" <peter....@nospam.baesystems.com> wrote in message
news:447ecf09$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
There are some who will never see reality, even when the scales are removed.
Peter
Michal
>>I find it amazing and scary that the US is so ridden with conspiracy
>>theory fruitcakes.
>
> Half of them are the usual weirdos who believe in things like UFOs or
> human bones in coal seams, the other half are just leftwing,
> anti-American scum.
> -Rich
Yeah, and the German people of Hitlers germany would have been shot if they
would have
spoke the truth about what he was doing to them. Why is it that all these
gung ho Red White and Blue bunch
can't handle the idea that other things are or could be at work??
Questions
> > Let us not discuss what hit the pentagon. Suffice to say that it is a
> > weird impact at a weird location made by weird people and while there
> > must be 100 cameras around, its so weird that only two cameras with
> > lame frame rates detected some wierd going-ons. (The white-hot
> > explosion-fireball shows serious grade explosives, not jet fuel, [lamp
> > oil].)
>
> Those who believe this load of crap have not seen a large explosion of JP-1
> fuel, and have no idea what they are talking about.
>
Yeah whatever.......... but how about the other 84 videos from near the
pentagon? http://www.flight77.info/
You know the ones that were confiscated by the FBI who first denied
their existence, then when court ordered admitted their existence, but
refused to give them up as they were allleged to be used to convince
the jury to give Moussaoui the death penalty, you know the "20th
hijacker", whose laptop computer could have been searched via an FISA
warrant, save for the criminal negligence by FBIHQ and future medal of
freedom recipient, FBI Director Bob Mueller. Well the Moussaoui trial
is over so lets see `em.
http://www.whatcheer.net/misc/rowleymemo.html
Any comments?
Questions
u2...@gmx.net wrote:
> > Two weeks ago they released the set of photos taken by the auto STILL
> > cameras of the plane hitting the DOD building,
>
> What drugs do you take? They must be good.
Yes, extremely good but here`s what we probably should have seen.
http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/pentagon_video_how_flight_77_really_look.htm
Granted the velocity is slow but one gets the idea. You couldn`t miss
something as large as a seven-five-seven striking the pentagon.
> Because the frames show NO PLANE HITTING THE BUILDING.
>
> check for youself:
>
> http://www.911blogger.com/2006/05/new-footage-of-911-pentagon-attack.html
John Mianowski
properly is able to manage this elaborate hoax & conspiracy to demolish
3 large buildings that just happened to also have aircraft crash into
them (or not)? Am I missing anything?
Seems to me like it would have been easier for "Them" to just do it
like the terrorists did in the 1st place...
JM
SkySea
Just that you've clearly found a hobby, and are taking it out on the
wrong people. What have amateur astronomers as a group done to deserve
your off-topic rants here? Let's say all your assumptions are correct.
What have they got to do with the topic for which this group was
created? Why would you think this discussion is welcome here? The thin
edge of your wedge was a question about the wing shadow. You've
digressed completely, and now it's obvious that you're trolling.
=============
- Dale Gombert (SkySea at aol.com)
122.38W, 47.58N, W. Seattle, WA
http://flavorj.com/~skysea
George
"John Mianowski" <spam...@skytex.net> wrote in message
news:1149173966.2...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The same "They" who's incapable of properly faking a security video
> properly is able to manage this elaborate hoax & conspiracy to demolish
> 3 large buildings that just happened to also have aircraft crash into
> them (or not)? Am I missing anything?
>
> Seems to me like it would have been easier for "Them" to just do it
> like the terrorists did in the 1st place...
>
> JM
The great tragedy of science -- the
slaying of a beautiful hypothesis
by an ugly fact. - Thomas Huxley
George
LarryG
The official report findings on the downing of Flight 800 (a few years
before
9-11) discounts the hundred or so eyewitnesses who claimed that a glowing
red light (consistent with a surface to air missile) went from the sea to
the aircraft, resulting in an explosion.
If you want to give validity to eye witnesses, and you should, then you
should
do so uniformly, not selectively.
--
Cheers,
Larry G.
Paul Winalski
>TO THE CORRESPONDENTS in news:///sci.astro.amateur
>
>I thought we astronomically minded people could approach apparent
>miracles with scientific nosyness.
>
>Instead, here in this group, we get an instant confirmation of human
>arrogance and ignorance.
>
>Whats the matter?
>
>Do you feel threatened?
No, I don't feel threatened. Just annoyed.
I think the only issue is that this this topic has nothing to do with
amateur Astronomy. I don't visit sci.astro.amateur to read about 911
conspiracy theories, however much merit they might have.
It's bad network manners to post off-topic items in newsgroups. You
therefore shouldn't be surprised when folks get upset about it. It's
like talking loudly in a library, then expressing surprise when
someone says "shhhh!".
My apologies if there is some amateur Astronomy connection here that I
inadvertantly missed.
-Paul W.
----------
Remove 'Z' to reply by email.
Laurence Doering
>
> The official report findings on the downing of Flight 800 (a few years
> before 9-11) discounts the hundred or so eyewitnesses who claimed that
> a glowing red light (consistent with a surface to air missile) went
> from the sea to the aircraft, resulting in an explosion.
If you read the NTSB's report on TWA 800, you'll find they considered
more like 700 reports from people who said they had seen part of the
crash sequence, that less than 100 said they saw a light moving upward
(and some fraction of those said that *after* being interviewed by
FBI agents who specifically asked them if they'd seen something that
looked like a missile), and that the wreckage of TWA 800 that was
recovered showed none of the characteristic damage a missile would
have caused.
Oh, and a "glowing red light" is not at all consistent with the
appearance of a surface-to-air missile launch, or the appearance
of a missile in flight.
> If you want to give validity to eye witnesses, and you should, then you
> should do so uniformly, not selectively.
Good point. Selectively quoting eyewitness accounts, by the way,
is the only way you can claim that "TWA 800 eyewitnesses saw the
plane being shot down by a missile."
ljd
Bob Cain
> FWIW I don't give two hoots about the videos. My brother was in New York on
> that day and personally witnessed the second airliner flying into the second
> tower (I only saw it on a live TV feed and I presume that you would claim
> this was faked by the CIA or Kentucky Fried Chicken or whoever). If it's all
> the same to you I'm more comfortable accepting he word of my brother than
> that of you and yiur fellow inmates.
My daughter was walking to her studio in Manhatten when she saw the
first plane adjusting its course on the way in. She was irrationally
but instinctively shouting at it to turn away as it hit.
I know from the trauma she suffered as an observer that it happened as
reported.
Bob
--
"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler."
A. Einstein
u2...@gmx.net
> that day and personally witnessed the second airliner flying into the second
> tower
Would it be possible that you ask him again and let him describe
what exactly he saw, and where he was?
> (I only saw it on a live TV feed and I presume that you would claim
> this was faked by the CIA or Kentucky Fried Chicken or whoever).
hehe, yes, thats the outrageous claim.. if there wasn't the eerie
evidence...
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
> If it's all the same to you I'm more comfortable accepting he word of
> my brother than that of you and yiur fellow inmates.
Excuse me.. but *you* are an inmate in your crumbling empire. Outside
of the US of Angst there are hardly any gun-whackos, homeless people,
poverty draft and 'driving-while-black' .. we have a social system
(paid parental
leave by law, 6 weeks paid holidays, free education, free doctor) and
brand new
trains and classy public transport. Not just for the rich. We even have
advert-free
channels on TV.
u2...@gmx.net
> >http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
> floor chief looked up and had a awestruck look on his face. My friend
> looked up to see what he was gawking at to see the second plane coming
> in right above them. They ran.
can you ask what exactly they saw? The explosion would have been
awesome enough. Did they hear an awesome jet-noise? What did the plane
look like?
Rich
Can't handle baseless, idiotic nonsense spewed by moronic,
bored-with-life dimwits.
Rich
<tothemoon...@yahoo.com> wrote:
sci.astro.amateur. How does it relate to what you are posting about
dimwit?
u2...@gmx.net
> Hay. Even though I was watching on television I did see the second
> aircraft impact on the tower in real time, LIVE from New York.
well, when they say LIVE on TV..
- often it isn't true at all
- there is always a few seconds from the gizmos that stabilize the
signal and take out grizzle and correct colours/ convert to PAL etc
etc. You can often see it when flicking between BBC world and CNN on
live events. CNN has 2 seconds delay.
However, you missed the point. The suggestion is that the ONLY LIVE
SIGNAL
that showed the aeroplane coming came from a Helicopter of WABC, who
use military hardware, and that THIS SIGNAL was "added to". So there
was a missile or a smaller remote-control jet maybe, and they placed
the image of a 767 on top.
This outrageous claim is supported by evidence, GOOGLE:
Ghost Gun v3.6
All of your attempts at slandering the messenger (me) or
the author are useless. We expect scientists to ignore the antics
and
- argue the evidence
- fullfil their societal duty of enlightenment
The infantile mental farts of sidewalk astronomers and people
who-have-a-friend-in-new-york-who-said-they-saw-it...
do not carry any weight.
I WISH WITH ALL MY LOVE that the
"arabs did it" ali-baba story is true. Because the world
we live in would be a terrible evil monstrosity if these acts
were indeed carried out by PEOPLE WITH COMPUTER POWER,
treasonous agents of our OWN ILK.
There are MANY historical treaonous acts. May I just mention
Hitler's burning of the Reichstag, now known to be carried out by
SS men .. and the start of WW2 where germans in polish uniforms ..
gulf of tonkin, INCUBATORS Q_wait... blah blah...
Just please bring up some real arguments that can be tested, and
enlighten me with un-movable science and dispell the dark ghosts
of myth and medieval fear in conspiracies.. ;-)
I bet you find it hard too. I am patient. I have been for
over 4 years now. I am still waiting for the proof that the
wars we started in Afghanistan (thousands of dismembered
innocent civilians!) and Iraq (bloodbath of HUNDRED THOUSAND
innocent loving human beings) are criminally bad executed, but
started because of humanitarian drive.
Otherwise, I feel like having made into an accomplice.
BEING STUPID (and believing lies) is no excuse for culpability.
I just want to make sure. No stop questioning the motives of the 911
truthers.
We are not commies or people with too much time at our hands.
We CHOOSE to take up this cause. And we have dignity, too.
Now wipe your tears and please watch a 50meg feature length documentary
http://www.911podcasts.com/files/video/whatsthetruth/911_WTC_demolition_analysis--WhatsTheTruth-HowIndeedDidTheTwinTowersCollapse.rmvb
(BandWidthSaving Torrent: http://www.mininova.org/tor/315997 )
Player-programme (Real Player 10 GOLD, free, 8mB):
http://forms.real.com/real/realone/realone.html
u2...@gmx.net
> inadvertantly missed.
If you care to look at my original post.. it was a question
about the validity of the astronomical angles used in the
exposé by Marcus Icke.
Furthermore, I find it NOT vastly OFF TOPIC to ask
a scientific opinion here. This group is supposed to have
correpondents who at least know someone with a
incorruptible mind. I am of the opinion that science has many
modern methods that should make the task childs play.
Amateur Astronomers often are experts in image processing
and optics. Since the original article
http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/prod/dialspace/town/pipexdsl/q/aqrf00/ggua175/
involved fundamentally such techniques I would enjoy
ANYONE'S educated opinions and I would be delighted
with reasoned statements.
u2...@gmx.net
> > tower
What did it look like?
> My daughter was walking to her studio in Manhatten when she saw the
> first plane adjusting its course on the way in. She was irrationally
> but instinctively shouting at it to turn away as it hit.
What did the airplane look like? Did it have a polished, shiny surface
like AA11 was supposed to? There was a male eye-witnesses who
described it as a plane without windows with a blue logo.
Sure your daughter was shocked. I would have pissed my pants.
LarryG
I stopped trusting government controlled "investigative bodies"
a long time ago, probably starting with the Warren Commision's
white-wash of the JFK assassination.
Since, then, maybe before, "if it's official, its suspect."
--
Cheers,
Larry G.
LarryG
You came to a place which should be able to objectively be able
to answer your question regarding astronomical phenomena.
However, since amateur astronomers are also regular people, with
the biases, predispositions and politics, you got way more than
you bargained for.
Much of what you asked for you can probably do with a desktop
planetarium program. Just enter the correct latitude, longitude,
time and direction of view, and you can find out what the Sun
elevation and azimuth angles are.
--
Cheers,
Larry G.
Skywise
xp.austin.rr.com:
<Snipola>
> I stopped trusting government controlled "investigative bodies"
> a long time ago, probably starting with the Warren Commision's
> white-wash of the JFK assassination.
>
> Since, then, maybe before, "if it's official, its suspect."
Here's a couple other 'conspiracies' I have direct experience
with:
Those white trails in the sky behind airplanes? Those aren't
vapor trails, they're trails of chemicals the government is
spraying to either control the weather or the population, or
both.
Plate tectonics is wrong. The earth is actually getting bigger
over time. It has apparently doubled in diameter since the
dinosaurs died 65 million years ago.
Anyone who says otherwise is a closed minded scientist that
needs to open their minds to reality.
:)
But in all seriousness, just becuase a person or group screws
up once, or lies once, does not mean that they do so all the
time. It's like saying that because a few teachers turned out
to be child molesters, all teachers should now be suspected of
being child molesters.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
Eugene Griessel
>Plate tectonics is wrong. The earth is actually getting bigger
>over time. It has apparently doubled in diameter since the
>dinosaurs died 65 million years ago.
Spoken to Don Findlay lately, have you?
>But in all seriousness, just becuase a person or group screws
>up once, or lies once, does not mean that they do so all the
>time. It's like saying that because a few teachers turned out
>to be child molesters, all teachers should now be suspected of
>being child molesters.
It all started with the fluoridation of the water ......
Eugene L Griessel
24 hours in a day...24 beers in a case...coincidence?
Questions
I wasn`t the OP. And who are kidding, you already spit out your sorry
"off topic" opinion on this thread;
>Half of them are the usual weirdos who believe in things like UFOs or
>human bones in coal seams, the other half are just leftwing,
>anti-American scum."
If you were serious about off topic threads you wouldn`t respond at
all, but instead you just had to get in your own little "off topic"
thoughts on the matter.
You should start sci.astro.amateur.yahoo and then you can have absolute
control of the group. But in the mean time you should practice what you
preach.
Questions
John Mianowski wrote:
> The same "They" who's incapable of properly faking a security video
> properly is able to manage this elaborate hoax & conspiracy to demolish
> 3 large buildings that just happened to also have aircraft crash into
> them (or not)? Am I missing anything?
I think the OP hollogram, and other such far fetched theories, are
strawman or red herring arguments which detract from serious discussion
about means and motives and issues like the FBI handling of Moussaoui
in the weeks before 9/11, and the DOJ refusal so far to hand over the
other 84 videos confiscated at or around the Pentagon on 9/11.
> Seems to me like it would have been easier for "Them" to just do it
> like the terrorists did in the 1st place...
Or even easier to just pave the way for "Them".
Then start an endless "war on terror" which will gut the Constitution,
dramatically strip away civil liberties, most importantly the writ of
"habeas corpus", result in first one war then another totally
unjustified, unnecessary war with thousands of US soldiers killed, tens
of thousands injured, and god knows how many innocent civilians.
In 1999 the Neo-Con operating manual, Plan For a New American Century,
made it clear in no uncertain way that a new "Pearl Harbor" would be
very beneficial to their plans.
> JM
Paul J. Adam
<lar...@nospam.com> writes
>The official report findings on the downing of Flight 800 (a few years
>before
>9-11) discounts the hundred or so eyewitnesses who claimed that a glowing
>red light (consistent with a surface to air missile) went from the sea to
>the aircraft, resulting in an explosion.
...in large part because the eyewitness statements could not be
reconciled with any known missile. (But the conspiracy theorists prefer
to ignore that part)
--
Paul J. Adam
LarryG
wrote:
> LarryG <lar...@nospam.com> wrote in news:op.tahzehoamhpkiw@grail-
> xp.austin.rr.com:
>
> <Snipola>
>> I stopped trusting government controlled "investigative bodies"
>> a long time ago, probably starting with the Warren Commision's
>> white-wash of the JFK assassination.
>>
>> Since, then, maybe before, "if it's official, its suspect."
>
>
> But in all seriousness, just becuase a person or group screws
> up once, or lies once, does not mean that they do so all the
> time. It's like saying that because a few teachers turned out
> to be child molesters, all teachers should now be suspected of
> being child molesters.
>
> Brian
The problem is that there are countless examples of governments
lying, or running false flag operations, to con their people into
an ill-advised action or policy.
Germany - Reichstag Fire
America - Mexican-American War
- Spanish-American War
- Gulf of Tonkien
- JFK Assassination
USSR - Chernobyl
If you've ever seen the movie "Patton", at the end, he wanted
to provoke a war with the Russians, and would make it look like
they started it. If true, then it shows how governments
actually work, perhaps as a result of Machiavelli's "The Prince".
--
Cheers,
Larry G.
Calling Austin HOME since 1982!
LarryG
People who saw test flights of stealth aircraft before the things were
made public, could not reconcile their sightings with any known vehicles,
but they most certainly existed.
--
Cheers,
Larry G.
CWatters
<u2...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1149213877.7...@h76g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> However, you missed the point. The suggestion is that the ONLY LIVE
> SIGNAL
> that showed the aeroplane coming came from a Helicopter of WABC, who
> use military hardware, and that THIS SIGNAL was "added to". So there
> was a missile or a smaller remote-control jet maybe, and they placed
> the image of a 767 on top.
That would be the easy part.
There were rather a lot of people on the ground who saw the second impact
with their own eyes. Some very close and some quite a long way away.
Eugene Griessel
Non sequitur. Anyone who was mildly literate knew that stealth
aircraft were being developed by the late seventies. Military projects
are often not publically revealed until the things are in service. In
the case of the Nighthawk it was less than 5 years from service to
being made public. The stealth prototypes, as such things usually are,
were all revealed in time. We still await the revelation of the
missile you postulate ten years later.
Far more important are glaring inconsistencies in the eyewitness
evidence. When two military pilots seated side by side in a
helicopter cannot agree on basic events happening before their eyes
one realises, as psychologists have for many years now, that
eyewitness testimony is almost always suspect. You need merely spend
a few days in court listening to eyewitness testimony to convince
yourself of that.
Eugene L Griessel
Bravery is being the only one who knows you're afraid.
Paul J. Adam
<lar...@nospam.com> writes
Stealth aircraft were reported well before they flew and predicted with
respectable accuracy.
http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/cunn.html
is a handy summary of how the word on "stealth fighters" was out before
the prototype first took to the air. (The only big surprise was the
actual shape - instead of being a bizarre curved church-bell the F-117
turned out to be a bizarre faceted flying pyramid). The predictions made
for its performance were all either accurate or erred on the side of
generosity t (it carried less weaponry, flew slower, and was less
flexible than the 'RF-19' had been imagined to be) .
I'm afraid the "totally top secret program that nobody could possibly
recognise" claim isn't supported by reality or history - apart from
anything else, the first F-117 was delivered in 1982, achieved initial
operating capability in 1983, was declassified in 1988 and was doing
airshows by 1990.
Your Magical Mystery Missile was advanced enough to be fired outside a
test range in 1996, yet there's no trace of it in the literature
beforehand, and a decade on nobody is able to hint at what it might have
been?
Reality is unfortunately less sympathetic to the conspiracy theorist
than soundbite.
--
Paul J. Adam
Keith W
"LarryG" <lar...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:op.taick...@grail-xp.austin.rr.com...
No it tells us a lot about how Hollywood sees things, a little about Patton
but
not much else.
Keith
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Michal
Starlord
gas at a station in Ridgecrest (about an hour from Rosamond) and took the
first public photo of one in flight, he made a nice bundle selling the photo
the the newspapers and magazines.
Can you say "Cat out of the bag"?
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
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www.sidewalkastronomy.info
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http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/
"Eugene Griessel" <eugene@dynagen..co..za> wrote in message
news:447ff24c...@news.uunet.co.za...