Linux and astrophotography
Kevin Penrose
Does anyone know of any linux software that will work with a CCD camera?
Including such functionality as guide star control, and scope
interface? I'm beginning to start some astrophotography and the results
obtained with ccd cameras is really appealing.
Thanks.
Davoud
I suggest you look at IRAF (Image Reduction and Analysis Facility) at
<http://iraf.noao.edu/>.
Now, how patient are you? Daniel Bisque of Software Bisque recently
wrote in the BisqueMac Yahoo group:
> > The long term plan is to make all our applications run natively
> > under Mac OS X (as well as under Windows, and perhaps
> > *other popular operating systems*).
> > TheSky will be first, then CCDSoft, then the others.
> > Please note that it all won't happen overnight...
"Other popular operating systems" has to mean Linux, doesn't it? This
has been in the works for some time; Tom Bisque told me this last April
at NEAF, but a few more details have come out. It is my understanding
that this isn't merely a "port" from Windows, but that Bisque is
re-writing its software from the ground up for /all/ of the OS's it
will support, including Windows. Patience, because there is a /lot/ of
code involved and it's going to take a long time.
Note that that's a "perhaps" on the "other popular OS's." If I were a
Linux-using astronomer* I would round up a bunch of other Linux-using
astronomers and let Bisque know that the interest exists. Since there
is a very recent exchange with Daniel Bisque in the BisqueMac Yahoo
group, you might consider starting with a post there, or e-mail Daniel
Bisque at support2 <at-sign> bisque dawt cawm.
Davoud
*OK, the truth is, if I were a Linux-using astronomer I would get a
Mac, which can run /natively/ all the great Mac-only software, all the
graphics and other multi-platform software that runs better under Mac
OS than anywhere else, all of Unix, and now, Windows software at full
speed -- no more slow emulation of the Intel processor. But please note
from the body of my reply above that I am /not/ saying this is what
/you/ should do!
--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
Phil
FLI appear to be in the process of developing Linux drivers for their
cameras. I recently came across a new to me dealer with a lot of
information on these cameras-see
http://www.opticstar.com/Astro-Software.asp?s=8c6589bc-ec0d-4ef4-a12a-249a12fb6989&p=0_10_0_1_0
At the bottom of the page is a reference to a program called ImageJ, a
Java based image editing package, developed initially for medical imaging,
but it seems to be pretty good for astronomical imaging. Have only
recently downloaded it myself and have yet to do more than open and tweak
a few images. There are a lot of extra plugins which will need to be
looked at as the default installation just covers basic image
manipulation and I have not checked to see if there are any
camera/scope interfaces. See http://rsb.info.nih.gov/ij/index.html
You might want to check out the SBIG site as they have a
comprehensive Linux section see http://www.sbig.com/search/searchpage.htm
and type Linux.
Finally AIPS was recommended to me a while back, it seems to be used by a
lot of the big observatories for image processing. I have not used it
myself, but it may be worth checking out. See
ftp://ftp.cv.nrao.edu/casa/obtaining.html
Hope this is of use
Phil Bishop
nick
KStars has a scope interface and support for a few cameras including
FLI, Apogee PPI, and Meade LPI. I only use KStars as planetarium
software so I can't comment on the functionality of the scope control
and camera interfaces.
AM
Hi
I am looking at the same thing. And so far. there is,
or rather was a driver out for the Phillips webcam.
Which would have been great for me and my NexImage.
However there was some hassle, dont know what happened
in the end. There is if you look hard enough, enough out
there for you to build your own. I think someone else
has already done this, dont know, I'll have to look again.
There *is* an older driver/software app out there, that
*can* work, I havnt tried it yet.
I'm pretty sure that for Logitech, and a couple of other
webcams out there it will be no problem. It's the Phillips
based one's that seem to be the trouble.
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
CentOS 4.2 KDE 3.3
AM
PS
I got AstroSnap to work under CentOS (RHEL 4)
William Hamblen
There are linux drivers for Apogee and SBIG CCD cameras,
according to their web sites. There are linux drivers for
several webcams (video4linux, etc.) that are useable for
lunar and planetary photography. I guess IRAF is useable
for image processing. It looks a little difficult. Some DOS
and Microsoft Windows image processing software ought to be
functional under dosemu or wine. I've wondered whether
or not the Cookbook CCD Camera programs for DOS will work
under dosemu. Has anyone actually done this?
--
The night is just the shadow of the Earth.
Stephen Paul
"Kevin Penrose" <kpen...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:OEATf.7355$lb.6...@news1.epix.net...
>
> Does anyone know of any linux software that will work with a CCD camera?
As a user looking for a solution, the first thing you should always do, is
select the application that you want to run, and THEN select the system
(OS/Hardware) that it runs on.
/semi-rant on
This apparent putting of the cart (OS/Hardware) before the horse
(application) never ceases to amaze me. I mean it's fine if you're a
developer/hobbyist and you want to create an application. That goes without
saying. But in general there's far too much focus on the OS by far too many
"users". An operating system is nothing more than a computer hardware
resource allocator. Everything else that comes bundled with it, is just
bells and whistles (including the GUI, although Linux is one of the only PC
OS's that can actually be divorced from it).
Now, it's true that there are negatives and positives in each implementation
of the resource allocator, but that's not really the application's problem,
or the hardware's problem, nor is it likely to be noticed by the application
user once the application interface is up and running and making requests of
the OS.
I really hate to say this, but selecting an OS that has fewer available
applications as your *only* OS, is simply a bad investment. Don't limit
yourself. Hardware is cheap.
It simply makes more sense to run a Windows application, whenever a Windows
application is readily available, and feature rich.
/semi-rant off
:-)
-Stephen
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
laura halliday
> I am looking at the same thing. And so far. there is,
> or rather was a driver out for the Phillips webcam.
> Which would have been great for me and my NexImage.
> However there was some hassle, dont know what happened
> in the end. There is if you look hard enough, enough out
> there for you to build your own. I think someone else
> has already done this, dont know, I'll have to look again.
> There *is* an older driver/software app out there, that
> *can* work, I havnt tried it yet.
The issue with the Philips webcams (and others who use their
chipset, like some of the Logitech models) was a binary-only
decompression module that was protected by a non-disclosure
agreement.
The driver was out, then it was in, then it was out, now it's
back in, but in a different form, and maintained by different
people. Even the original driver is no problem to back-port to
current kernels. It works well; I have a Vesta Pro and several
QuickCam Pro 4000s, and they all work just fine.
For other imaging activities I use dcraw and gimp. They too
work just fine.
As always, if what you need isn't already available, you
are welcome to roll your own (I wrote my own program to
do dark frame subtraction and dynamic range scaling on
Digital Rebel images). The tools are available. Go for it!
Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre
Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..."
ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte
Davoud
> > Does anyone know of any linux software that will work with a CCD camera?
Stephen Paul replied:
> As a user looking for a solution, the first thing you should always do, is
> select the application that you want to run, and THEN select the system
> (OS/Hardware) that it runs on.
That's good advice -- for someone who is buying their first computer.
Not so good for someone who has an /established/ /need/ for a computer
running Linux and who decides at some point that in addition to those
things he /must/ do with Linux, he also /wants/ to control a CCD camera
without buying a new computer.
Inceasing numbers of people solve this problem by using computers that
run multiple OS's. /That/ makes sense to me.
Davoud
AM
>
> It simply makes more sense to run a Windows application, whenever a
> Windows application is readily available, and feature rich.
>
Unless you are already setup with an OS
And comfortable with it.
It is very easy tho to run several in one box,
should be no problem. I am running two Linux
distro's and Win XP on this box.
And most Win programs can be run under Linux with
some user effort involved. Games are
the biggest trouble so far for me.
Still unless one dosnt want to spend the $$ on Win
it should be no real issue.
--
AM
http://sctuser.home.comcast.net
CentOS 4.3 KDE 3.3
Bill Owen
Indeed, I have (courtesy of VMware) a Windows XP computer inside my
Linux workstation. Its C: disk is actually a partition on my hard
drive, and the rest of the hard drive looks like a network device --
but other than that little quirk, it works just fine.
-- Bill Owen
Sam Wormley
Bill, which distribution of Linux are you running. Just curious...
I'm using rhel4.3-i386-ws currently. Thanks.
-Sam
AM
>
> Bill, which distribution of Linux are you running. Just curious...
> I'm using rhel4.3-i386-ws currently. Thanks.
>
> -Sam
I have also done the same thing under CentOS 4.2
(which is now CentOS 4.3)
Stephen Paul
"Davoud" <st...@sky.net> wrote in message
news:210320061526213252%st...@sky.net...
> Inceasing numbers of people solve this problem by using computers that
> run multiple OS's. /That/ makes sense to me.
A couple of comments....
It doesn't make sense if your workflow requires more than one app to run at
the same time, and each of those requires a different OS. Most image
processing requires the use of at least two applications.
I don't know about "increasing numbers" of dual booters, as I'm not looking.
But I completely understand that reasoning. As I said in another thread,
"when I was in college I used to dual boot (Win/Linux)". The reason was my
projects had to compile under Unix on the University's Sparc stations before
submission, and I had to do all my work from home (for family reasons),
before uploading, recompiling, testing and submitting via modem/telnet.
Now that I use a (home) PC like a toaster, I run Windows exclusively
(haven't touched Linux in years). BUT, that's because it meets all my
applications needs, and to me, as it should be for most applications users,
the OS is unimportant (my main point in the rant).
Like I said (wort a specific OS):
"...it's fine if you're a developer/hobbyist and you want to create an
application. That goes without saying. But in general there's far too much
focus on the OS by far too many "users". "
Besides, if you're going to dual boot Win/Linux, then you don't need a Linus
app. ;-)
AM
>
> Besides, if you're going to dual boot Win/Linux, then you don't need a
> Linus app. ;-)
Hi
I only use Windows for gaming, and RegiStax and thats
about it. I prefer Linux for surfing the net, email,
and everything else. I *could* VM the games, but I didnt
build a fast water cooled box just to add stuff and make
it slower. It is only one of three on the home network,
and I will be adding at least two more this year. Then at
least two will be dedicated Linux box's
The one thing I cant stand abut Win, is that all to often
one app will crash, and take windows with it.
Never happens in Linux..........
(I also cant STAND outlook !!!!!!!!!)
"The Difference Between Us Is Part Of The Game"
Chris L Peterson
>The one thing I cant stand abut Win, is that all to often
>one app will crash, and take windows with it.
I can't remember the last time that happened to me. In fact, I don't
think it has ever happened since I started using W2K, and then XP- 6 or
7 years I guess. And I use my machine for software development, and can
get some doozies of application crashes.
I don't play games, but I imagine that a game crash could hose the OS
via a badly written video driver. Video drivers seem to be the most
common source of problems, given their extreme complexity and the fact
that they run at a very protected level (and games, of course, push the
video harder than most any other apps).
>Never happens in Linux..........
Not common, but I've had apps take down my Linux machine.
>(I also cant STAND outlook !!!!!!!!!)
Well, that is hardly a requirement of Windows!
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
Stephen Paul
"AM" <sct...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7MudnVWlRsD...@comcast.com...
> Stephen Paul wrote:
>
>>
>> Besides, if you're going to dual boot Win/Linux, then you don't need a
>> Linus app. ;-)
>
>
> Hi
>
> I only use Windows for gaming, and RegiStax and thats
> about it. I prefer Linux for surfing the net, email,
> and everything else. I *could* VM the games, but I didnt
> build a fast water cooled box just to add stuff and make
> it slower. It is only one of three on the home network,
> and I will be adding at least two more this year. Then at
> least two will be dedicated Linux box's
Interestingly enough, I addressed almost everything that has come in reply
to my original response, in my original response. :-)
In this case, "hardware is cheap" (you're doing exactly what I recommend).
Davoud
> >The one thing I cant stand abut Win, is that all to often
> >one app will crash, and take windows with it.
Chris L Peterson wrote:
> I can't remember the last time that happened to me. In fact, I don't
> think it has ever happened since I started using W2K, and then XP- 6 or
> 7 years I guess. And I use my machine for software development, and can
> get some doozies of application crashes.
You forgot to add that you have special experience with computers.
Windows has never had stability or security problems in your world, and
in your world Mac users are willingly giving up the Mac in droves and
moving to Windows because of its improved stability, elegance, and
security. In fact, you have used Macs and found them to be unstable,
inelegant, and virus-plagued. In your world the publishing industry,
the televsion, motion picture, and music industries, the advertising
industry, computer security firms, the biotech industry, the Space
Telescope Science Institute, et al, all use Windows *exclusively*.
From what I read *every* *day* not everyone has enjoyed the same great
experience you have had with Windows.
Chris L Peterson
>You forgot to add that you have special experience with computers.
True.
>Windows has never had stability or security problems in your world...
Not true. I'm the first to admit that non-NT kernel flavors of Windows
are and always have been pretty unstable. And even under NT, bad drivers
can cause problems, although this is generally rare and always fixable.
>in your world Mac users are willingly giving up the Mac in droves and
>moving to Windows because of its improved stability, elegance, and
>security.
Not at all. Just a couple of companies I've worked with. And not because
of stability or elegance. Support for other applications, security, and
management issues were the reasons in both cases.
> In fact, you have used Macs and found them to be unstable,
>inelegant, and virus-plagued.
Not at all. My Mac is slightly less stable than my Windows platforms.
But hardly what I'd call unstable. And as I've said in the past, I'm
fully prepared to believe this is because I'm less familiar with its
internals (likewise for Linux). OS crashes are very rare on any
platform. Elegance is a matter of personal taste, and admittedly I don't
care much for the MacOS user interface or general look. And I don't
think the OS is as advanced in terms of management, file system, and
some other technical matters. I've never remotely suggested that Macs
are virus plagued, or even that viruses pose (for the moment) any real
threat to Macs.
> In your world the publishing industry,
>the televsion, motion picture, and music industries, the advertising
>industry, computer security firms, the biotech industry, the Space
>Telescope Science Institute, et al, all use Windows *exclusively*.
I have no idea where you get that idea.
>From what I read *every* *day* not everyone has enjoyed the same great
>experience you have had with Windows.
Certainly not. And the same can be said for every other OS.
And none of this has much to do with my comment to AM, which was simply
that he apparently has a problem that should be tracked down. Whatever
you personally think about Windows, one thing is certain: it is not an
unstable OS.
Davoud
> ...And none of this has much to do with my comment to AM, which was simply
> that he apparently has a problem that should be tracked down.
It looks to me like AM tracked his problem down. He even named it.
Stephen Paul
> I only use Windows for gaming, and RegiStax
Just out of curiosity, which version of Windows do you run?
laura halliday
> which distribution of Linux are you running. Just curious...
I use Slackware on my x86 boxes. Even my laptop.
It just works.
My UltraSPARC boxes run Debian. No Slackware on
SPARC...it all started when I wanted to try Linux on
something other than x86, and the cheapest approach
appeared to be buying an Sun Ultra 5 on EBay.
AM
Hi
XP home. And you are right, 99$ of the time it is
games Every now and then rarely, RegiStax will hang,
and in so doing hang the entire machine. Same with
a few other prog's. And sometimes task mgr will not
help. (I know XP pro is better, but I'm not buying it)
What really got me with Linux, was (of all things)
the multiple desktops. The ability to have several
apps open at the same time, but NOT cluttering up
one screen is a godsend to me !
Also the ability to control every aspect of my
computer and it's desktop appearance is very nice.
I will however use ANY operating system that will get
me where I want to go. Those who limit themselves to
only one, are missing out.......
Stephen Paul
> Stephen Paul wrote:
>> Just out of curiosity, which version of Windows do you run?
> XP home. And you are right, 99$ of the time it is
> games Every now and then rarely, RegiStax will hang,
> and in so doing hang the entire machine.
Do you have an add-in graphics adapter for those XP boxes that experience
hangs? The reason I ask, is that I've had some difficulties with XP on my
1999 Dell B800R w/GeForce 256, but I have never, ever, not even once, had a
system hang with this new (2006) Dell 4700 with the Intel 82865G's embedded
video controller.
It is unfortunate for graphics adaptor vendors that MS decided to make the
GUI an integral part of the OS. Video drivers have to be very well written,
and very well tested, and frankly the demand for graphics cards to keep pace
is exceedingly problematic with the Wintel model of releasing a new hardware
platform every 6 months. Linux has the advantage that the GUI is not part of
the kernel, but that does carry a certain performance penalty (albeit one
that's not worth considering with today's systems, IMO).
That said, I would be surprised to hear that XWindows hasn't crashed/hanged
on occasion over the years, and if there were as many video games and
graphics applications for X, the problems would likely be more prevelant
than they what is (or is not) reported. Maybe.
Förster vom Silberwald
Chris L Peterson wrote:
> Not at all. My Mac is slightly less stable than my Windows platforms.
> But hardly what I'd call unstable. And as I've said in the past, I'm
> fully prepared to believe this is because I'm less familiar with its
> internals (likewise for Linux). OS crashes are very rare on any
> platform. Elegance is a matter of personal taste, and admittedly I don't
> care much for the MacOS user interface or general look. And I don't
> think the OS is as advanced in terms of management, file system, and
> some other technical matters. I've never remotely suggested that Macs
> are virus plagued, or even that viruses pose (for the moment) any real
> threat to Macs.
Hi: I haven't used Windows for 10 years. I recall it is still alive.
However, I for one couldn't imagine me using anything other than Sun
OS, Mac OSX or Linux.
Without any ulterior-motive: I have never understood why anyone on
Earth would like to use Windows.
That does not relate to every person, however, if one is in the
scientific computing business the best opt will be a Linux or Mac OSX
environment. Windows, honestly, is a piece of chunk in this respect.
People are using the best telescope which fits their pocket. However,
at the same time they are using an inferior operating system called
Windows .
I do not get it. Sorry to say this, but people using Windows lack some
sense of aesthetics.
Schneewittchen
Förster vom Silberwald
AM wrote:
> What really got me with Linux, was (of all things)
> the multiple desktops. The ability to have several
> apps open at the same time, but NOT cluttering up
> one screen is a godsend to me !
> Also the ability to control every aspect of my
> computer and it's desktop appearance is very nice.
As I said elsewhere: Linux and Unix flavors are the only useable
operating systems out there.
The Mac OSX has a tool for virtual desktops too. I use it on my ibook.
It is rock stable and as useable as the virtual desktop as we know from
X11.
You are right: without virtual desktops life would be hard.
Btw: I think Windows XP shares virtual desktops too (they are in the
section "power tools"). However, installing virtual desktops on
Windowes will not make Windows useable.
Schennwittchen
Chris L Peterson
<chain...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi: I haven't used Windows for 10 years. I recall it is still alive....
Then you are in no position to compare it to other operating systems.
Starlord
do you know what machine that is?
--
The Lone Sidewalk Astronomer of Rosamond
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Sidewalk Astronomy
www.sidewalkastronomy.info
Astronomy Net Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/astronomy_net
In Garden Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/ingarden
Blast Off Online Gift Shop
http://www.cafepress.com/starlords
Astro Blog
http://starlord.bloggerteam.com/
"Chris L Peterson" <c...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
news:egq522t11u2uojt1r...@4ax.com...
David Hutchinson
flexible for what I need.
Things I use:
starcharts and planetarium - xephem (www.clearskyinstitute.com)
INDI to connect xephem to telescope
xawtv and a bt848 based video capture card
Mel Bartel's wonderful (DOS based) stepper drive software to drive the
scope.
ntp and an old Trimble GPS to get a local clock good to 10 us.
I'm currently developing Linux code to hook my Artemis camera into INDI.
Other cameras already have drivers.
If you want serious-grade image processing, look for the starlink software
(oh, it does take 1900 MBytes to compile it...)
ds9 is a nice FITS image viewer
There are plenty of astronomical components for Linux - you may have to do
some work to glue them together, but you then get a system you understand
well
Clear skies
--David
AM
>
>
> Do you have an add-in graphics adapter for those XP boxes that
> experience hangs? The reason I ask, is that I've had some difficulties
> with XP on my 1999 Dell B800R w/GeForce 256, but I have never, ever, not
> even once, had a system hang with this new (2006) Dell 4700 with the
> Intel 82865G's embedded video controller.
All of them run one kind of Nvidia card or another.
Shame ATI couldnt get their stuff together enough for the sim's
I like the most. And under Linux, Nvidia is really the only
sure way to go. My main box uses an FX 5900 Ultra.
(soon to be replaced by a 6800 GT)
> That said, I would be surprised to hear that XWindows hasn't
> crashed/hanged on occasion over the years, and if there were as many
> video games and graphics applications for X, the problems would likely
> be more prevelant than they what is (or is not) reported. Maybe.
I have only been using linux since Christmas, so I
will have to see. Kernel rebuilds always mean re installing
the video driver. (among other things) But being so customizable
makes linux a winner for me :) Scorched Earth 3D runs fine, tho
I havnt tried to many games under linux. Stellarium runs great,
and the graphics run well, and look excellent.
AM
>
>
> As I said elsewhere: Linux and Unix flavors are the only useable
> operating systems out there.
I (now that I know better) agree with you.
There are a few here who hold totally opposite views...
laura halliday
> And under Linux, Nvidia is really the only sure way to go.
Closed-source drivers are not the way to go. People
tolerate them for various reasons (cf Philips webcam),
but they are still not the way to do it.
> I have only been using linux since Christmas, so I
> will have to see.
Let's take it easy on the sweeping pronouncements until
you've been running it for a while, OK? Like a year
or two? After 10 years with Linux I'm still learning new
things...
Tom Rauschenbach
[snip]
> Let's take it easy on the sweeping pronouncements until
> you've been running it for a while, OK? Like a year
> or two? After 10 years with Linux I'm still learning new
> things...
As a Unix developer for something like 25 years I have to concur. BAck
during the Unix wars, I had lunch with the chief kernel architect at
Sequoia. He said "A Unix guru is someone who can use vi for a month and
and not learn a new trick."