"Space elevator" idea almost as stupid as the ISS
Rich
more pie-in-the-sky dreaming by scifi lovers and nothing else. Until
some country has the guts to re-start Project Orion, we are Earth-
bound.
LONDON, England (CNN) -- A new space race is officially under way,
and this one should have the sci-fi geeks salivating.
Lift to space: This is a Nasa interpretation of what a space elevator
may look like.
Lift to space: This is a NASA interpretation of what a space elevator
may look like.
The project is a "space elevator," and some experts now believe that
the concept is well within the bounds of possibility -- maybe even
within our lifetimes.
A conference discussing developments in space elevator concepts is
being held in Japan in November, and hundreds of engineers and
scientists from Asia, Europe and the Americas are working to design
the only lift that will take you directly to the one hundred-
thousandth floor.
Despite these developments, you could be excused for thinking it all
sounds a little far-fetched.
Indeed, if successfully built, the space elevator would be an
unprecedented feat of human engineering.
A cable anchored to the Earth's surface, reaching tens of thousands of
kilometers into space, balanced with a counterweight attached at the
other end is the basic design for the elevator.
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It is thought that inertia -- the physics theory stating that matter
retains its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted
upon by an external force -- will cause the cable to stay stretched
taut, allowing the elevator to sit in geostationary orbit.
The cable would extend into the sky, eventually reaching a satellite
docking station orbiting in space.
Engineers hope the elevator will transport people and objects into
space, and there have even been suggestions that it could be used to
dispose of nuclear waste. Another proposed idea is to use the elevator
to place solar panels in space to provide power for homes on Earth.
If it sounds like the stuff of fiction, maybe that's because it once
was.
In 1979, Arthur C. Clarke's novel "The Fountains of Paradise" brought
the idea of a space elevator to a mass audience. Charles Sheffield's
"The Web Between the Worlds" also featured the building of a space
elevator.
But, jump out of the storybooks and fast-forward nearly three decades,
and Japanese scientists at the Japan Space Elevator Association are
working seriously on the space-elevator project.
Association spokesman Akira Tsuchida said his organization was working
with U.S.-based Spaceward Foundation and a European organization based
in Luxembourg to develop an elevator design.
The Liftport Group in the U.S. is also working on developing a design,
and in total it's believed that more than 300 scientists and engineers
are engaged in such work around the globe.
NASA is holding a $4 million Space Elevator Challenge to encourage
designs for a successful space elevator.
Tsuchida said the technology driving the race to build the first space
elevator is the quickly developing material carbon nanotube. It is
lightweight and has a tensile strength 180 times stronger than that of
a steel cable. Currently, it is the only material with the potential
to be strong enough to use to manufacture elevator cable, according to
Tsuchida.
"At present we have a tether which is made of carbon nanotube, and has
one-third or one-quarter of the strength required to make a space
elevator. We expect that we will have strong enough cable in the 2020s
or 2030s," Tsuchida said.
He said the most likely method of powering the elevator would be
through the carbon nanotube cable.
So, what are the major logistical issues keeping the space elevator
from being anything more than a dream at present?
Massachusetts Institute of Technology aeronautics and astronautics
Professor Jeff Hoffman said that designing the carbon nanotube
appeared to be the biggest obstacle.
"We are now on the verge of having material that has the strength to
span the 30,000 km ... but we don't have the ability to make long
cable out of the carbon nanotubes at the moment." he said. "Although
I'm confident that within a reasonable amount of time we will be able
to do this."
Tsuchida said that one of the biggest challenges will be acquiring
funding to move the projects forward. At present, there is no
financial backing for the space elevator project, and all of the
Japanese group's 100-plus members maintain other jobs to earn a
living.
"Because we don't have a material which has enough strength to
construct space elevator yet, it is difficult to change people's mind
so they believe that it can be real," he said.
Hoffman feels that international dialogue needs to be encouaraged on
the issue. He said a number of legal considerations also would have to
be taken into account.
"This is not something one nation or one company can do. There needs
to be a worldwide approach," he said.
Other difficulties for space-elevator projects include how to build
the base for the elevator, how to design it and where to set up the
operation.
Tsuchida said some possible locations for an elevator include the
South China Sea, western Australia and the Galapagos Islands in the
Pacific Ocean. He said all of those locations usually avoided
typhoons, which could pose a threat to the safety of an elevator.
"As the base of space elevator will be located on geosynchronous
orbit, [the] space elevator ground station should be located near the
equator," he said.
Although the Japanese association has set a time frame of the 2030s to
get a space elevator under construction -- and developments are moving
quickly -- Hoffman acknowledges that it could be a little further away
than that.
"I don't know if it's going to be in our lifetime or if it's 100 or
200 years away, but it's near enough that we can contemplate how it
will work."
Building a space elevator is a matter of when, not if, said Hoffman,
who believes that it will herald a major new period in human history.
"It will be revolutionary for human technology, and not just for space
travel. That's why so many people are pursuing it," he said. "This is
what it will take to turn humans into a space-bearing species."
Rick Evans
> Anyone who has followed progress on carbon nanotubes knows this is
> more pie-in-the-sky dreaming by scifi lovers and nothing else. Until
> some country has the guts to re-start Project Orion, we are Earth-
Moon, Mars and galactic space colonization is the stuff of science
fiction but such pie in the sky thinking hasn't stopped you or other
space buffs.
Despite its lack of an atmosphere, lack of radiation protection, low gravity,
lack of water and stick to everything abrasive dust space buffs wistfully
plan Moon colonization.
Then there are all the dreamy engineering types who talk of "terraforming"
Mars as a hedge against the next dinosaur killer asteroid. These feats of
engineering are oh so easy when one can just right off oceans, volcanism,
flora, fauna, bacteria, fungi and a billion years of evolution as just minor
complications.
--
Rick Evans
P. Edward Murray
A "Space Elevator" really is just science fiction.
I mean, what about WIND?
Oh, we don't worry about that....
As far as Colonization...hmmmm.
I can see a "Moon Base" but other bases? Nope not for a long time.
As far as Colonizing Mars?
I seem to recall an experiment some years ago in a dome.
Millions of dollars were spent on it and it would recycle everything.
It didn't work....
The poor folks had to order out for some supplies..food being one of
them.
Trouble is that I wonder how long we have on this planet?
Apparently, we didn't know enough to stop global warming.
What makes us think we could colonize...
not to mention terraforming...
Chris.B
electricity. Particularly if the cable was conducting. Flying a simple
kite on a wire is fraught with danger as early experimenters
discovered. That's why they invented string.
A recent 13 mile cable experiment in space hoping to harness
electrical power broke catastrophically. Resulting a swarm of UFO nuts
descending on the debris like vultures. Three mile wide ice crystals
were (allegedly) blamed for the cable breakage. They must have been
totally parallaxed! ;-)
Rick Evans
news:7e61a1a1-7051-49da...@t65g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>I have to agree this time with you Rich:)
>
> A "Space Elevator" really is just science fiction.
> I mean, what about WIND?
> Oh, we don't worry about that....
>
> As far as Colonization...hmmmm.
Unless I was misunderstood I was putting all of them(moon, mars colonization and
the space elevator) in the realm of dubious, romantic science fantasy based ideas
that some space buffs are trying to make into policy ... at great cost to society.
--
Rick Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
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Lat +42° 11' 07"
Chris.B
>
> Unless I was misunderstood I was putting all of them (moon, mars colonization and
> the space elevator) in the realm of dubious, romantic science fantasy based ideas
> that some space buffs are trying to make into policy ... at great cost to society.
What cost? Are you worrying about the little green men climbing down
the cable to bite your bum in the night?
Space buffs are people too! They have feelings.
A.C.Clarke RIP.
*<|;^{>
Davoud
> Are you worrying about the little green men climbing down
> the cable to bite your bum in the night?
So that's where those little green bastards are coming from!
Davoud
--
Don't re-elect the failures of the past eight years.
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
Rick Evans
On Oct 7, 12:52 pm, "Rick Evans" wrote:
>
> Unless I was misunderstood I was putting all of them (moon, mars colonization and
> the space elevator) in the realm of dubious, romantic science fantasy based ideas
> that some space buffs are trying to make into policy ... at great cost to society.
>What cost?
Money.
>Space buffs are people too! They have feelings.
So are taxpayers. I'm all for space buffs feeling good
so long as they pay for their own rounds.
Chris.B
>
> So are taxpayers. I'm all for space buffs feeling good
> so long as they pay for their own rounds.
Do the generals pay their own rounds when they get to play at war?
More seriously, do you suppose there is a shortage of funds to pay for
space travel?
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
All this money could have been saved with a single cruise missile or
smart bomb placed right on the bridge of Saddam's sunglasses. Let the
Iraqis pick up their own pieces of the jigsaw afterwards. (probably
with a shovel) :-)
Just think of the sudden improvement in all those nasty dictator's
behaviour around the world. No more need for foreign aid. No more
petty wars with millions of refugees needing to be fed and watered.
Where shall we start? Burma, Zimbabwe, Iran, Syria, North Korea,
Saudi, Israel, Turkey, Russia. You'd clean up Right Wing South America
overnight if they thought they'd get a special gift from above .. oh I
forgot, they're your bosom buddies ... but the list of potential
targets still goes on and on. ;-)
Rick Evans
"Chris.B" <chr...@mail.dk> wrote in message news:c1479c8d-4b87-490f...@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 7, 8:25 pm, "Rick Evans" <IHateSpam@DONT_spam_on_me.net> wrote:
>>
>> So are taxpayers. I'm all for space buffs feeling good
>> so long as they pay for their own rounds.
>Do the generals pay their own rounds when they get to play at war?
If I thought war was play I'd agree with your premise.
>More seriously, do you suppose there is a shortage of funds to pay for
>space travel?
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home
Irrelevent to my objections. I simply doubt the
merits of colonizing the moon or Mars because
someone grew up reading Ray Bradbury stories.
BradGuth
~ BG
BradGuth
wrote:
> "Chris.B" <chri...@mail.dk> wrote in messagenews:c1479c8d-4b87-490f...@w1g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Oct 7, 8:25 pm, "Rick Evans" <IHateSpam@DONT_spam_on_me.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> >> So are taxpayers. I'm all for space buffs feeling good
> >> so long as they pay for their own rounds.
> >Do the generals pay their own rounds when they get to play at war?
>
> If I thought war was play I'd agree with your premise.
Our mutually perpetrated cold-war was nothing but play, except with
live amo, VX and real nukes. (what could possibly go wrong? just look
around at what hasn't gone wrong)
~ BG