Bloody Horrible - Observed some garden mood lighting recently
Atreju
I was recently walking with my wife and my mother one evening this
past holiday we spent by my mother. She lives in a neighborhood where
there are slightly more affluent people. Anyway, we were walking along
the street and came along a house that had a garden outside. I spotted
not one, not two, not three, but FOUR of those damn decorative lights
buried in the dirt underneath some of the little sculpted shrubbery,
just shining directly UPWARD.
I took a peek toward the house and found that all the lights were out.
This was a weekday evening not later than about 9:00 PM, so the people
were most likely not asleep, which means they were out.
I began to get extremely irritable right then... these stupid upstuck
rich folks wasting electricity and shining lights directly UP just to
get their little self-gratifying high... it just pissed me off.
I started to rant, and my mom couldn't understand what I was getting
so upset about. I explained it to her, and she agreed that it was,
indeed, useless, but that "they're paying for it" so who cares. I then
explained that I felt that waste of electricity is still a waste no
matter who is paying for it, and additionally that it was every little
stupidity like that which caused us to not be able to see more than
about a dozen stars in the night sky. Now, my mother isn't native to
NY nor America, so she knows what a night sky SHOULD look like, and
she kind of got my point by then... and agreed that the people were,
in fact, the selfish vermin that I was insisting they were.
Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
Well, I guess I am glad it was a religious holiday and I wasn't
permitted to do that.. otherwise I think I just might have...
Clear, dark skies to all.
-Atreju-
40.727966N
73.819530W
John
You had to explain to your mother why them wasting their money
made you upset. This didn't seem to surprise you. Why would
you expect the people who own the lights to think differently
than your mother?
"Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained
by stupidity" or ignorance.
On 26 Sep 2001 14:53:16 GMT, Atreju <som...@who.hates.junkmail>
wrote:
!Hello all,
!
!I was recently walking with my wife and my mother one evening this
!past holiday we spent by my mother. She lives in a neighborhood where
!there are slightly more affluent people. Anyway, we were walking
along
!the street and came along a house that had a garden outside. I
spotted
!not one, not two, not three, but FOUR of those damn decorative lights
!buried in the dirt underneath some of the little sculpted shrubbery,
!just shining directly UPWARD.
!
!I took a peek toward the house and found that all the lights were
out.
!This was a weekday evening not later than about 9:00 PM, so the
people
!were most likely not asleep, which means they were out.
!
!I began to get extremely irritable right then... these stupid upstuck
!rich folks wasting electricity and shining lights directly UP just to
!get their little self-gratifying high... it just pissed me off.
!
!I started to rant, and my mom couldn't understand what I was getting
!so upset about. I explained it to her, and she agreed that it was,
!indeed, useless, but that "they're paying for it" so who cares. I
then
!explained that I felt that waste of electricity is still a waste no
!matter who is paying for it, and additionally that it was every
little
!stupidity like that which caused us to not be able to see more than
!about a dozen stars in the night sky. Now, my mother isn't native to
!NY nor America, so she knows what a night sky SHOULD look like, and
!she kind of got my point by then... and agreed that the people were,
!in fact, the selfish vermin that I was insisting they were.
!
!Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
!nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
!Well, I guess I am glad it was a religious holiday and I wasn't
!permitted to do that.. otherwise I think I just might have...
!
!Clear, dark skies to all.
!-Atreju-
!40.727966N
!73.819530W
---
My email works, if you fix it. The President should have the high
Echelon at the NSA assasinated, for spying on Usenet and email.
JMc
until they trespass (i.e. point the lights at you), there is nothing you
can legally do. How about working hard and buying your own property that
is removed from what you don't like, or greasing the local political
machinery to get them to pass restrictive LP ordinances? If you're
really as motivated as you claim, you will stop bitching and act. Join &
support the IDA:
Jim McSheehy
> Atreju wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was recently walking with my wife and my mother one evening this
> past holiday we spent by my mother. She lives in a neighborhood where
> there are slightly more affluent people. Anyway, we were walking along
> the street and came along a house that had a garden outside. I spotted
> not one, not two, not three, but FOUR of those damn decorative lights
> buried in the dirt underneath some of the little sculpted shrubbery,
> just shining directly UPWARD.
[...]
Chris L Peterson
wrote:
>Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
>nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
>Well, I guess I am glad it was a religious holiday and I wasn't
>permitted to do that.. otherwise I think I just might have...
Hey, Atreju, tell us how you really feel <g>.
I agree, it is a waste of power. But if you destroyed the lights, you
would be equally guilty of wasting resources. No doubt, all that
trashed plastic would just be tossed into some landfill and replaced.
If your motives were discerned, the owners would just come to the
conclusion (somewhat justifiably) that the anti light pollution
supporters are just a bunch of criminal whackos.
The whole issue of light pollution is one that needs to be approached
through education and thoughtful legislation. Militant action is
counterproductive (PETA has harmed the animal rights movement, and
Earth First has harmed the environmental movement- no need to act in
that manner).
_________________________________________________
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
Atreju
from jdelongp...@nospan.noway.pobox.com.ercial (John):
>Of course it would have been wrong to smash their lights.
>
>You had to explain to your mother why them wasting their money
>made you upset. This didn't seem to surprise you. Why would
>you expect the people who own the lights to think differently
>than your mother?
>
>"Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained
>by stupidity" or ignorance.
I know, I was kidding... I know it wouldn't have been right... and I
know that it is sheer stupidity that makes people do things like light
up their gardens. I was just ranting.
I always remember this famous quote:
"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do"
...or, is it "two's company, three's an adult movie..."
Atreju
from Chris L Peterson <c...@alumni.caltech.edu>:
>On 26 Sep 2001 14:53:16 GMT, Atreju <som...@who.hates.junkmail>
>wrote:
>
>>Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
>>nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
>>Well, I guess I am glad it was a religious holiday and I wasn't
>>permitted to do that.. otherwise I think I just might have...
>
>Hey, Atreju, tell us how you really feel <g>.
>
I know I was just kidding about smashing them, but I had the urge...
Atreju
came from JMc <tri...@mydeja.com>:
>Property rights give the owners privileges. YOU may not like it, but
>until they trespass (i.e. point the lights at you), there is nothing you
>can legally do. How about working hard and buying your own property that
>is removed from what you don't like, or greasing the local political
>machinery to get them to pass restrictive LP ordinances? If you're
>really as motivated as you claim, you will stop bitching and act. Join &
>support the IDA:
>
>http://www.darksky.org/ida/
>
I was kidding around, I wouldn't have smashed them, but the urge was
there...
Please, relax ok?
Robert Burns
I think you would have been wrong both in a legal sense and an ethical
sense. If you want change, try to get the zoning changed.
But, that doesn't mean I don't feel your pain or frustration.
We live near the Azalea Trail district in Tyler, Texas. Tyler has a lot of
"old" money. Just down the street from us are some of the old money's
mansions. (Think of a house where the stone mason's bill alone was more
than $1 million.) In the Azalea district, the trend is to mount halogen
spotlights in the upper tree limbs, 20 and 30 feet above ground level,
kind of like a giant, year-arround Christmas tree.. Talk about light
pollution and energy waste!
My solution: I'm moving to the outskirts of town before the year is out.
One of my new neighbors has already agreed to have his electrical-pole
mounted security light disconnected - - if I pay for the disconnect fee.
"Never liked the thing, anyway," he told me.
A lot of these things can be worked out with careful communication with
your neighbors.
Clear, dark skies to ya'
Robert
Hilton Evans
news:seq3rtk9iduep982b...@4ax.com...
> Hello all,
>
> I was recently walking with my wife and my mother one evening this
> past holiday we spent by my mother. She lives in a neighborhood where
> there are slightly more affluent people. Anyway, we were walking along
> the street and came along a house that had a garden outside. I spotted
> not one, not two, not three, but FOUR of those damn decorative lights
> buried in the dirt underneath some of the little sculpted shrubbery,
> just shining directly UPWARD.
>
> I took a peek toward the house and found that all the lights were out.
> This was a weekday evening not later than about 9:00 PM, so the people
> were most likely not asleep, which means they were out.
>
> I began to get extremely irritable right then... these stupid upstuck
> rich folks wasting electricity and shining lights directly UP just to
> get their little self-gratifying high... it just pissed me off.
>
> I started to rant, and my mom couldn't understand what I was getting
> so upset about. I explained it to her, and she agreed that it was,
> indeed, useless, but that "they're paying for it" so who cares. I then
> explained that I felt that waste of electricity is still a waste no
> matter who is paying for it, and additionally that it was every little
> stupidity like that which caused us to not be able to see more than
> about a dozen stars in the night sky. Now, my mother isn't native to
> NY nor America, so she knows what a night sky SHOULD look like, and
> she kind of got my point by then... and agreed that the people were,
> in fact, the selfish vermin that I was insisting they were.
>
> Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
> nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
Yes it would be wrong -- they're not your property
And foolish -- you would scare them into installing 1000 watt
all night 'security' lighting.
--
Hilton Evans
---------------------------------------------------------------
Lon -71° 04' 30.3"
Lat +42° 11' 07.0"
Mark Wilden
news:seq3rtk9iduep982b...@4ax.com...
>
> nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
Errr, yes. The rule of law, democracy, and all that. :)
Mark Wilden
news:3BB1F72E...@tamu.edu...
>
> My solution: I'm moving to the outskirts of town before the year is out.
The only real solution to bad neighbors is to move.
Roland Roberts
Atreju> Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to
Atreju> grab the nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
Of course it would have been wrong to destroy someone else's property
unless it was causing some immediate hazard to someone.
I don't suppose you were walking through Forest Hills Gardens were you
:-/
roland
--
PGP Key ID: 66 BC 3B CD
Roland B. Roberts, PhD RL Enterprises
rol...@rlenter.com 76-15 113th Street, Apt 3B
rol...@astrofoto.org Forest Hills, NY 11375
ed
property, a.k.a. vandalism. It's a crime. People who commit crimes are
known as "criminals".
I see frequently see huge masses of ignorant people doing things that
I find annoying. I don't have the right to smash their property
because I don't approve of their behavior.
BTW, if the people "wasting" electricity (in your opinion) had been
poor, would you have been as upset? Or is there a bit of
anti-affluence bigotry in the air?
Atreju <som...@who.hates.junkmail> wrote in message news:<seq3rtk9iduep982b...@4ax.com>...
> Hello all,
SNIP
> Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
> nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
Marty
to break these people's decorative lights, I REALLY feel that people
like this should be dragged out into the street and beaten senseless.
Since others may quibble with that, about all we can hope for is
that useless outdoor lighting will eventually become unfashionable and
embarrassing to those who own it. Sort of like pink lawn flamingos.
Not long ago, I would have felt this would be impossible, but after
California's energy problems and a few news stories about light
pollution, (!,) it just may eventually come about.
Marty
Gareth Slee
Daniel felt the frustration we all do sometimes.
Jeez he only *thought* about smashing the lights, I'm absolutely certain he
wouldn't have gone ahead and done it.
Personally I've a real big urge to go and blow that damned security light of
my neighbours into oblivion ;-))))
Joking..............
--
Gareth Slee
http://www.saaweb.org
The news:sci.astro.amateur website
Atreju <som...@who.hates.junkmail> wrote in message
news:seq3rtk9iduep982b...@4ax.com...
Mike Simmons
No one can be expected to understand issues before learning about them.
Your mother fits my definition of wise -- seeing the other side of
issues, incorporating them, learning and adapting ones own outlook
taking advantage of the new information. You can certainly learn from
her, too.
I figured you were kidding about the rock but just the same maybe it was
still good that it was a religious holiday... :-)
Mike Simmons
Mike Simmons
>
> Yes, you would have been wrong. It's called destruction of private
> property, a.k.a. vandalism. It's a crime. People who commit crimes are
> known as "criminals".
>
> I see frequently see huge masses of ignorant people doing things that
> I find annoying. I don't have the right to smash their property
> because I don't approve of their behavior.
>
> BTW, if the people "wasting" electricity (in your opinion) had been
> poor, would you have been as upset? Or is there a bit of
> anti-affluence bigotry in the air?
I think the point is that people with money to "burn" will often care
less about wasting resources. I grew up in an affluent area and I'm not
an anti-affluent bigot -- I'd even like to be affluent myself some
day<g> -- but I've seen a lot of this attitude. Not having to worry
about the electricity (or other) bill just makes it easier to waste, and
it happens a lot. There are some whose social conscious causes them to
act differently but in my experience that's a minority.
Mike Simmons
Eddie Trimarchi
Ed
"Gareth Slee" <garet...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:2xqs7.2920$Vj1.4...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Stephen Tonkin
>Personally I've a real big urge to go and blow that damned security light of
>my neighbours into oblivion ;-))))
Invest in a large mirror and return his light to him, preferably via his
bedroom window.
Best,
Stephen
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ Stephen Tonkin | ATM Resources; Astro-Tutorials; Astronomy Books +
+ (N50.9108 W1.830) | <http://www.aegis1.demon.co.uk> +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Whatever563
about anything. So, the sky will soon be ablaze with garish artificial grey
twilight at night. Every mind is too deluded with modern cultural stupidness
to make much of a point of doing anything required by common sense.
"1-2-3-4 We dont want your racist war!"
rande...@home.com
nothing good to spend it on.
Noma Moonrays should be abolished.
-Rich
John
but three lefts do" from National Lampoon's Deteriorata.
This is often misquoted on the web. It even makes sense this
way!
On 26 Sep 2001 15:56:05 GMT, Atreju <som...@who.hates.junkmail>
wrote:
!On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 15:24:05 GMT, the following pearls of wisdom came
!from jdelongp...@nospan.noway.pobox.com.ercial (John):
!
!>Of course it would have been wrong to smash their lights.
!>
!>You had to explain to your mother why them wasting their money
!>made you upset. This didn't seem to surprise you. Why would
!>you expect the people who own the lights to think differently
!>than your mother?
!>
!>"Never ascribe to malice that which can adequately be explained
!>by stupidity" or ignorance.
!
!I know, I was kidding... I know it wouldn't have been right... and I
!know that it is sheer stupidity that makes people do things like
light
!up their gardens. I was just ranting.
!
!I always remember this famous quote:
!
!"Two wrongs don't make a right, but three do"
!
!...or, is it "two's company, three's an adult movie..."
SKEYEGUY
Sorry I could not resist to comment on some "refinements" I have added to
neighbors lights in the past. While I ABSOLUTELY agree, one should never be
destructive when out at 3am when everyone else is asleep. Sometimes magical
coffee cans, painted flat black on the inside appear from nowhere. Now, if
these coffee cans were to appear in the correct color of the side of the house
(cream) in my neighborhood, or in the grass (green) on the outside and cut to
the right height with maybe a protective cover angled to "highlight" the
desired area of lighting. Well, I say that is just a GIFT, donated by a higher
form of human being. It is so nice to give.
p.s. I have no recolection of this post <g>
Mike Fowler www.optcorp.com
Manager o...@optcorp.com
Oceanside Photo & Telescope
Mike Simmons
Mike Simmons
Chi-hung Yeung
You all are too lucky to have only this "small" lights shining upward.
Down here in Hong Kong, also known as the "Pearl of the East", our
architects fit thousands of kilowatt floodlights to shine up the top of
the sky-scrappers as well as the sky. We can hardly see second magnitude
stars in the centre of the city.
Chi-hung Yeung
jerry warner
months ...
Mike Simmons
Mike Simmons
Edwin Spector
amongst bushes, but pointing straight upward. They're intended to light up some
building, but very inefficiently.
My solution: Casually kick plenty of bark chippings (thoughfully provided) over
the stupid things.
Edwin.
lmg
news:seq3rtk9iduep982b...@4ax.com...
...
> Please, offer me an opinion: would I have been wrong to grab the
> nearest rock and smash those damn lights?
> Well, I guess I am glad it was a religious holiday and I wasn't
> permitted to do that.. otherwise I think I just might have...
How about a constructive solution? I've toyed with the idea of conducting a
small star party right out in the street near my house. Organize some astro
club members with telescopes and binoculars to help you. Invite all the
neighbors by putting flyers on their front doors. Tell them to turn OFF
their lights and come on over. Have a snack table to make it friendly. Print
up information sheets telling them about the two or three objects you'll
show them (Jupiter, Saturn, M42, etc.) with pictures, and include a nice
explanation of light pollution and why it prevents them from seeing even
more neat stuff. It might help. It couldn't hurt. At the least it would
introduce you to the neighbors and give you an opening to discuss the
offending light with them. (I know you said this is your mother's
neighborhood, not your own, but it could still be done.)
> Clear, dark skies to all.
> -Atreju-
> 40.727966N
> 73.819530W
Same to you.
lmg
(40.58583N
74.71666W)
Starguy
neighborhood
where all the homes have landscape lighting. These homes start at
$1,000,000 and go up to $5,000,000 or more. This is in an area where
a $150,000 home is extremely nice. (closer to my price range.)
I've driven through there at night and while the lights do angle up
rather
than down, they are directed at bushes and trees and walls, rather than
at the empty sky. The overall effect is nowhere near as bad as the
parking lot at the new shopping center several miles from here. That
creates a glow that all but wipes out the northeast sky for me.
If I were to complain to them about their landscape lighting, I would
be like a gnat buzzing around an elephants ass. At least all the street
lighting uses full cut-off shielding. If only we could extinguish that
shopping
center's parking lot lights. I can live with the upper crust landscape
lighting.
I think we should devote our energies at making all new lighting
shielded,
and only attack the most offensive home light polluter, not by smashing
his
lights, but by helping him use more diffuse, shielded, and non glaring
lights.
Starguy
Atreju
from Roland Roberts <rol...@rlenter.com>:
>I don't suppose you were walking through Forest Hills Gardens were you
>:-/
Nope, but I've been there...
*shudder*
Roland Roberts
Atreju> Nope, but I've been there...
Atreju> *shudder*
I've never been through there at night, but it certainly makes for a
pleasant walk in the spring and fall during the day. I'm afraid I
live on the wrong side of the tracks here in Forest Hills. I'm not
sure I would want to live in the Gardens, but I certainly wish I could
afford to. Think what kind of scope I could buy if I had that kind of
money. Then again, maybe I would end up living there. My wife has
made me promise "new house before new scope" 8-)
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> While I agree with those here who point out that it would be wrong
> to break these people's decorative lights, I REALLY feel that people
> like this should be dragged out into the street and beaten senseless.
Leave it to Marty to come up with a common-sense and understated solution
to this problem ...
> Since others may quibble with that,
:-)
---
Esmail Bonakdarian - esm...@cs.mercer.edu - http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~bonak
32N 83W
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> I just think most people are watching too much Montel and Oprah to give a damn
> about anything. So, the sky will soon be ablaze with garish artificial grey
> twilight at night.
I sure hope you are wrong (no offense intended of course!) - but I'm afraid
you may end up being right. In fact, in some places it already feels like
that.
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> Hello all,
>
> You all are too lucky to have only this "small" lights shining upward.
> Down here in Hong Kong, also known as the "Pearl of the East", our
> architects fit thousands of kilowatt floodlights to shine up the top of
> the sky-scrappers as well as the sky. We can hardly see second magnitude
> stars in the centre of the city.
God, that sounds awful. And here I'm feeling bad to barly get to mag 4.
How far do you have to travel to get away from all that light and see
some more stars?
Esmail Bonakdarian
>
> How about a constructive solution? I've toyed with the idea of conducting a
> small star party right out in the street near my house. Organize some astro
> club members with telescopes and binoculars to help you. Invite all the
> neighbors by putting flyers on their front doors. Tell them to turn OFF
> their lights and come on over. Have a snack table to make it friendly.
Great idea!