Is it normal for a marine battery to hiss while it's being re-charged?
Phillip Hosey
heard what sounded like something boiling inside, is it normal for the
electrolyte solution in the battery to do this while charging? It's not
very loud and I probably would not have noticed it had it not been unusually
quiet around here today.
Phillip
Andy Wallace
Why is this a problem? I have heard this too with trickle charging a big
marine battery and assumed it was producing small amounts of hydrogen
when charging--I, of course, keep it well ventilated--don't want a
mini-Hindenberg :-).
Thanks, Andy K5VM
Rich Mulvey wrote:
> No, it is NOT normal. If the battery is outgassing, you need to
> disconnect it from the charger immediately.
>
> - Rich
>
> --
> Rich Mulvey
> http://mulvey.dyndns.com
> Amateur Radio: aa2ys@wb2wxq.#wny.ny.usa
LABourdillon
this may be seen (in refillable) batteries as occasional bubbles appearing
on top of the electrolyte. These bubbles should not be confused with an
actual boiling of the electrolyte. This boiling can occur when the internal
resistance of the battery significantly increases and a heavy charging
current is passed through it. The high current and high resistance can
generate quite a bit of heat, sometimes enough to rupture the battery case.
Be careful!
Note that the only real difference between a marine battery and the usual
auto version is in the design of the lead plates. Whenever any lead-acid
battery is fully discharged, an oxide layer begins to form on the plates -
this oxide layer will result in the internal resistance of the battery
increasing. Marine batteries have a different plate design that tends to
reduce this oxide buildup (with the tradeoff being a reduction in
"cold-cranking" amps, etc.).
....larry
Phillip Hosey wrote in message <7i9lfg$dc7$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net>...
>I noticed today that when I connected my battery up for a charge that I
>heard what sounded like something boiling inside, is it normal for the
>electrolyte solution in the battery to do this while charging? It's not
>very loud and I probably would not have noticed it had it not been
unusually
>quiet around here today.
>
>Phillip
>
>
Bob May
amps rather than one of the 40-50 amp chargers. Better yet is to get the
battery maintainer type charger as it will start strong (~2A is nice) and
then drop down as the charge is completed and also allow you to leave it
alone for a few days. Talk to your battery supplier for more info or go to
the website of a battery manufacturer for more info.
Have Fun and Keep Looking Up.
Bob May
Phillip Hosey
Bob May wrote in message <3748...@news.access1.net>...
Ok, my charger can be set for either 6A or 2A operation. The manual says
that for batteries of 25AH or less to use the 2A mode, and larger ones can
use the 6A mode. My battery is 34AH so I was using the 6A mode, but after
this I think I should stick to the 2A mode.
Thanks,
Phillip
Dan Dickerson
>
> Ok, my charger can be set for either 6A or 2A operation. The manual says
> that for batteries of 25AH or less to use the 2A mode, and larger ones can
> use the 6A mode. My battery is 34AH so I was using the 6A mode, but after
> this I think I should stick to the 2A mode.
>
a battery at greater the 1/10th the total AmpHour rating. For a 34AH battery,
that means don't charge at greater than 3.4 Amps.
Phillip Hosey
Dan Dickerson wrote in message <3748214E...@pacbell.net>...
Sounds like a good rule. I'm glad I noticed the sound before I continued
letting it charge at the high a rate. Sheesh, I can't believe the thing
could have blown up.
Phillip
Stard...@webtv.net
maintain and recharge a battery is with a "float charger". As a battery
is charged it requires less current from the charger as the maximum
charge is approached. A good float charger can be left hooked up to the
battery and will keep a very small flow of current to replace the small
but steady drain on a stored battery. One float charger can be hooked up
to several batteries. Testing can be done with a load tester or an
electrolyte tester. A load tester is basically an amp meter with big
resistor in it. The load tester shows the condition of the battery by
indicating voltage drop. The electrolyte tester will give the specific
gravity of the electrolyte. These tests show if the battery will take an
adequate charge. When I charge a battery that I know is drained, I
charge it at 10 amps until the meter shows a drop in current to 5-6
amps, then I put it on the float charger. When buying a battery, always
ask for a load test of several batteries, Many will not be up to spec
and some will be better than spec. Battery sellers know this. Also, load
test your battery before the warranty expires or begins the "pro-rated"
period. As to explosions, hydrogen gas is released when charging takes
place and can be ignited by cigarettes and changing charger connections
with the power on. I've never seen a battery explode, but I've seen the
caps blow off and spray electrolyte all over. Gee, I hope some of this
helps.
Stard...@webtv.net (David M)
I love the night.The day is okay and the sun can be fun but I love to
see those rays slip away--Blue Oyster Cult
Azzz1588
Stard...@webtv.net writes:
>I've never seen a battery explode,
Listen to what he say's !!
I've seen a car battery explode all over a guy's face.
Instant trip to the hospital, and permanent disfigurement.
(wrong cable connection during jump start)
Do go out of your way, to keep your face away from
over the battery...
Also motocycle battery chargers are trickle chargers,
(sic) and work well
Allan
http://members.aol.com/Thetabat/hello.html
"Only a Gentleman can insult me, and a true Gentleman never will..."
Michael Edelman
Dan Dickerson wrote:
> Phillip Hosey wrote:
> >
> > Ok, my charger can be set for either 6A or 2A operation. The manual says
> > that for batteries of 25AH or less to use the 2A mode, and larger ones can
> > use the 6A mode. My battery is 34AH so I was using the 6A mode, but after
> > this I think I should stick to the 2A mode.
> >
> The "rule-of-thumb" that I have always known was that you should never charge
> a battery at greater the 1/10th the total AmpHour rating.
That's for NiCads. Lead-acid batteries are self-regulating when charged at 14V.
Still, a 34AH marine battery? That seems pretty small.
Andy Wallace
What does this mean? I have noticed "hissing" charging a big marine
battery and don't want it to blow up :-). My gharger is supposedly
charging at 2 amps.
Andy
Dan Dickerson
>
> Dan Dickerson wrote:
>
> > Phillip Hosey wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, my charger can be set for either 6A or 2A operation. The manual says
> > > that for batteries of 25AH or less to use the 2A mode, and larger ones can
> > > use the 6A mode. My battery is 34AH so I was using the 6A mode, but after
> > > this I think I should stick to the 2A mode.
> > >
> > The "rule-of-thumb" that I have always known was that you should never charge
> > a battery at greater the 1/10th the total AmpHour rating.
>
>
Not all lead-acid batteries are self-regulating. We have a voltage and
limiting power supply at work that we occasional have used to charge
dead batteries. With this supply, we can set the maximum voltage and
current output (up to 20 Amps).
I have seen MANY batteries that would charge at high rates unless we
limited the current. I suspect that they are self-limiting when
they are near a full charge.
I have heard this rule-of-thumb from several different manufacturers
of lead-acid batteries.
Andy Wallace
Very helpful post--the problem I have is that my large 12v deep cycle
marine battery is used to power the winch on my rolloff roof observatory
at my club dark site. No ac available when I am not there so I have to
do all charging in an 18 hour period--I will check the electrolyte on
the battery next time I am up. Makes sense to me that the fill caps
would pop long before the battery would "explode"--should these caps be
off during charging? seems that hydrogen would dissipate pretty fast if
open to the air (roof is rolled back). I also think I will wear eye
protection when fooling around with this battery.
Thanks, Andy
Bob May
Car batteries are required to supply up to 800A(!) or even more to start an
engine. Those that have access to the current requirements for starters
will agree with me. The voltage will be down at around 8V for this amount
of current output but they do put out that much and thus you can pump at
least that much current into the battery if so desired although that much
power will cause the battery to overheat and possibly explode after a few
moments. Lead Acid batteries do sort of selfregulate as the battery voltage
goes up at the end of the charge cycle and thus if you set the voltage a
something less than the overcharge voltage, the battery will stop accepting
charge at that point. OTOH, the nicads drop thier voltage after becoming
fully charge and thus if the charge voltage is high enough then they die the
early death by shorting.
T...@astro.net
>
>Dan Dickerson wrote in message <3748214E...@pacbell.net>...
>>>
>>> Ok, my charger can be set for either 6A or 2A operation. The manual says
>>> that for batteries of 25AH or less to use the 2A mode, and larger ones
>can
>>> use the 6A mode. My battery is 34AH so I was using the 6A mode, but
>after
>>> this I think I should stick to the 2A mode.
>>>
>>The "rule-of-thumb" that I have always known was that you should never
>charge
>battery,
>>that means don't charge at greater than 3.4 Amps.
>
>Sounds like a good rule. I'm glad I noticed the sound before I continued
>letting it charge at the high a rate. Sheesh, I can't believe the thing
>could have blown up.
>
>Phillip
I use a deep cycle marine battery for my ham radio gear. I charge it with a
12 volt solar panel. If you use a regulator you won't have to worry about
overcharging, if not you need to monitor the battery voltage every now and
then until charged.
Tom
Tom Randall -- tran...@idsi.net
Amateur Radio - KB2SMS
Mt. Beacon Amateur Radio Club / ARRL / 10-10
Member: AAVSO Solar Division
My Astronomy/Ham radio site: http://www1.mhv.net/~trandall/welcome.html
Andy Wallace
What would the solar panel and regulator cost to buy, not build and
where would you get them? They would be perfect for trickle charging the
marine battery in my observatory which is out in the boonies away from
ac most of the time.
Thanks, Andy K5VM
Jordan Blessing
wrote:
>Dave-
>
>Very helpful post--the problem I have is that my large 12v deep cycle
>marine battery is used to power the winch on my rolloff roof observatory
>at my club dark site. No ac available when I am not there so I have to
>do all charging in an 18 hour period--I will check the electrolyte on
>the battery next time I am up. Makes sense to me that the fill caps
>would pop long before the battery would "explode"--should these caps be
>off during charging? seems that hydrogen would dissipate pretty fast if
>open to the air (roof is rolled back). I also think I will wear eye
>protection when fooling around with this battery.
>
>Thanks, Andy
I was a Certified Master Auto Tech for about 15 years. In that time
I had 4 batteries explode directly in my face. Two so bad there was
absolutely nothing larger than 1" square left from the battery. In
every case I was drenched in acid (along with other injuries) ALWAYS
wear eye protection when working near a charging OR discharging
battery. Always know where the absolute nearest sink/shower/hose is
and how to get there with your eyes closed. When charging caps should
be off if possible and the entire area should be well ventilated,
preferably forced with a fan. Ask yourself this...what good is that
observatory if you lose your eyesight.....
--
Jordan Blessing
ScopeTronix Astronomy Products
http://www.scopetronix.com
Dho...@postoffice.worldnet.att.net
It's very easy to boil the electrolyte out of the battery and even a 2 amp
charger is too much after a long enough period. I ruined a deep cycle by
letting it charge too long. I now use a 34 amp-hour deep cycle battery from
Wal-Mart that cost about$35. It fits nicely in a small Coleman cooler so
it's easy to carry. I use a 1 amp battery charger / maintainer that cost
about $25 at Wal-Mart. It turns off when the battery voltage gets to a
certain point and turns on when the voltage drops a half-volt or so. This
type of charger is also known as a float-charger and is meant to keep a lead
acid battery in a fully charged condition at all times without damaging it.
You just connect it to the battery when you return from a field trip and
leave it on till the next time. The battery will be fully charged and ready
to go. It only takes a day and half to fully charge even a completely
discharged 34 amp-hour battery so a bigger charger is really not needed and
you will never fry the battery. My battery is over a year old and works
great and there are no deposits or corrosion on the battery terminals or
near the caps which can be caused by vigorous out-gassing when the
electrolyte is hot or boiling. Sears sells a similar charger too. It makes a
lead-acid battery almost care-free. Just be careful to store the battery in
a ventilated area because a small amount of explosive hydrogen gas is
released during the charging process.
By the way, the plates of a lead acid battery will become coated with a
sulphate compound if left in a discharged condition for too long, decreasing
their capacity. Lead acid batteries also slowly discharge when stored and
the rate of discharge seems to be accelerated by setting the battery case
directly on a concrete floor (I have yet to hear a good explanation of this
phenomena).
Dennis Hohman
Stard...@webtv.net
own wrenching. Under what circumstances did the battery explosions
occur? I've heard that reversed jumper cables will do it. What about a
dead short, like a wrench lying across exposed terminals? Is this the
reason for those side terminal batteries? Thanks for any more advice,
seeing as how I like my face the way it is : )
**********************************************
jble...@scopetronix.com (Jordan Blessing) Re: Is it normal for a
marine battery to hiss while it's beingre-c...
had 4 batteries explode directly in my face. Two so bad there was
absolutely nothing larger than 1" square left from the battery. In every
case I was drenched in acid (along with other injuries) ALWAYS wear eye
protection when working near a charging OR discharging battery. Always
know where the absolute nearest sink/shower/hose is and how to get there
with your eyes closed. When charging caps should be off if possible and
the entire area should be well ventilated, preferably forced with a fan.
Ask yourself this...what good is that observatory if you lose your
eyesight.....
--
Jordan Blessing
ScopeTronix Astronomy Products
http://www.scopetronix.com
Phil C
mul...@ucesucks.roch.rr.com wrote:
Lead acid batteries do make hydrogen gas when being charged, however, I
agree with Rich that if you HEAR it, there is a problem. It could be that
a vent is plugged or partially plugged and you do NOT want a build up of
pressure. Deep discharge batteries are basically made the way batteries
were several years ago when there was no distinction like that made. We
always removed the caps and set them back on lightly when charging.
Another person on this thread mentioned having never seen a battery blow
up. I did and they can. Fortunately, this one was in a metal box with no
top and the acid and pieces mostly went straight up (about 20 feet). The
guy that reached into the box to disconnect the charger (always turn OFF
the charger first) needed a new shirt, a rinse, and a change of underwear
but was otherwise undamaged. Everything else got hosed down. He was
lucky that he was reaching up and over since nothing got in his eyes.
Incidentally this thing was outside in an open top box but there was still
enough hydrogen to light.
> On Sun, 23 May 1999 15:44:05 -0400, Phillip Hosey <ros...@usa.net> wrote:
> >I noticed today that when I connected my battery up for a charge that I
> >heard what sounded like something boiling inside, is it normal for the
> >electrolyte solution in the battery to do this while charging? It's not
> >very loud and I probably would not have noticed it had it not been unusually
> >quiet around here today.
> >
>
> No, it is NOT normal. If the battery is outgassing, you need to
> disconnect it from the charger immediately.
>
> - Rich
>
> --
> Rich Mulvey
> http://mulvey.dyndns.com
> Amateur Radio: aa2ys@wb2wxq.#wny.ny.usa
--
Phil C
---------------------------------------------------
Engring, Macs, PCs (SF Bay Area)
Remove "fake" in email address to send email....
Jordan Blessing
>the rate of discharge seems to be accelerated by setting the battery case
>directly on a concrete floor (I have yet to hear a good explanation of this
>phenomena).
>
> Dennis Hohman
Oh no, please don't start the concrete floor thing again!!
Jordan Blessing
On Mon, 24 May 1999 19:55:52 -0600 (MDT), Stard...@webtv.net wrote:
>Hello Jordan, I'm not a professional mechanic, but I have always done my
>own wrenching. Under what circumstances did the battery explosions
>occur? I've heard that reversed jumper cables will do it. What about a
>dead short, like a wrench lying across exposed terminals? Is this the
>reason for those side terminal batteries? Thanks for any more advice,
>seeing as how I like my face the way it is : )
I hate to go this off topic in this group but many of use do use Lead
Acid batteries out in the field and there is an important lesson here.
All this info is absolutely first hand (no urban legends here).
If you haul a Lead Acid Battery out into remote dark sky sites,
especially if there is no running water and YOU have to drive
back think twice and read the article below. You may want to
consider a gel-cell or at least be more careful.....
In answer to Dave...
One exploded after I had already hooked up jumper cables to my car,
the other car owner hooked HIS up backwards, mine exploded (go figure,
guess my cable arced). Brand new battery too! And no he didn't offer
to pay for it!
Two exploded when I jiggled a battery terminal (side type) as someone
tried to start the car, I saw a flash inside the battery (conductor
must have been broken inside) and a billionth of a second later it
exploded very violently. I had plastic embedded in my skin from this
one.
Three was being charged while still in the car (a new Jag), I just
walked up while eating my lunch to see how it was doing and it
exploded for no apparent reason, I had a Turkey and Sulphuric Acid
sandwich.
Four, an elderly woman pulls up beeping her horn and pointing at her
hood. There was a bad smell and some smoke coming out from under it,
as I lifted the hood it exploded (apparently it was INTERNALLY
shorted).
I also had a high school teacher who was pretty badly disfigured on
his face and upper body. He told me he was out in a boat using an
electric trolling motor when the battery exploded on him, he was in
salt water which I think made it much worse, without propulsion it
took him hours to get to help and it really did a number on him.
So believe me, batteries absolutely will explode, hydrogen doesn't
play around. Ventilate well, use eye protection, and be extremely
careful not to have the slightest spark or heat source nearby. Even a
slowly charging battery will generate gas so don't let low charge
rates fool you into thinking you are safe!
And like I said at first, being drenched with acid at a very remote
site with no water and acid in your eyes is a nightmare we can all
live without, be careful out there!
>**********************************************
>jble...@scopetronix.com (Jordan=A0Blessing) Re: Is it normal for a
>marine battery to hiss while it's beingre-c...
>I was a Certified Master Auto Tech for about 15 years. In that time I
>had 4 batteries explode directly in my face. Two so bad there was
>absolutely nothing larger than 1" square left from the battery. In every
>case I was drenched in acid (along with other injuries) ALWAYS wear eye
>protection when working near a charging OR discharging battery. Always
>know where the absolute nearest sink/shower/hose is and how to get there
>with your eyes closed. When charging caps should be off if possible and
>the entire area should be well ventilated, preferably forced with a fan.
>Ask yourself this...what good is that observatory if you lose your
>eyesight.....
>--
>Jordan Blessing
>=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 ScopeTronix Astronomy Products
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 http://www.scopetronix.com
>***********************************************
>
>Stard...@webtv.net (David M)
>I love the night.The day is okay and the sun can be fun but I love to
>see those rays slip away--Blue Oyster Cult
>
--
Phillip Hosey
>I hate to go this off topic in this group but many of use do use Lead
>Acid batteries out in the field and there is an important lesson here.
>All this info is absolutely first hand (no urban legends here).
>
I knew a guy who was wearing a long necklace when working on a battery and
it just happened to tough both terminals at the same time. It practically
welded itself to his neck. The smell of burnt flesh is nasty, and that guy
is scarred for life now with a permanent necklace (in the form of a nasty
burn all the way around his neck.) So I wouldn't wear jewelry when working
on the battery either.
Phillip
Andy Wallace
Thanks for the info. This whole thread has been very helpful--I'm going
to treat that big marine battery with a LOT of respect.
Andy
Jordan Blessing wrote:
>
> I was a Certified Master Auto Tech for about 15 years. In that time
> I had 4 batteries explode directly in my face. Two so bad there was
> absolutely nothing larger than 1" square left from the battery. In
> every case I was drenched in acid (along with other injuries) ALWAYS
> wear eye protection when working near a charging OR discharging
> battery. Always know where the absolute nearest sink/shower/hose is
> and how to get there with your eyes closed. When charging caps should
> be off if possible and the entire area should be well ventilated,
> preferably forced with a fan. Ask yourself this...what good is that
> observatory if you lose your eyesight.....
> --
> Jordan Blessing
>
Phil G.
I've seen this happen with rings and wristwatches too.
Years ago when I was a teenager working for the Sears Auto Center
(forgive me) I saw a guy reach down between the + treminal of a
side-post battery and the fender to get a dropped socket.
The metal band on his watch completed the circuit between the post and
the fender and you can guess the rest!
Car batteries store a good bit of energy and can definitely be
dangerous.
We also saw quite a few returned batteries that were nothing more than a
bottom case and a stack of plates in a box with LOTS of little
shark-tooth shaped pieces of plastic!
Clear (safe) Skies!
Phil G.