yippee !
anna lemma
wsne...@hotmail.com
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34488616/ns/health-health_care/
Health Care org chart
Sleazy politics:
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1209/Ben_Nelsons_Medicaid_deal.html
Unintended consequences:
http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/wm2716.cfm
Chris.B
<snip>
Yeah! It must be natural that only the wealthy inherit health care as
an absolute right. After all, they already inherit a decent birth,
nanny, tutor, education, home, coach, plastic surgery, justice,
dentistry, gold digging sexual partners, holidays, boats, planes,
cars, toys, secure drug dealer, job, club, pension, family plot....
automatic pass card to the pearly gates... From privileged birth to
privileged death with no other qualifications than a privileged egg
and some weak but privileged sperm. :-)
wsne...@hotmail.com
> On Dec 21, 3:58 pm, wsnel mumbled...
>
> <snip>
>
> Yeah! It must be natural that only the wealthy inherit health care as
> an absolute right.
Calling health care "an absolute right" implies that someone else has
"an absolute responsibility" to provide it. That situation would be
called "involuntary servitude."
>
> After all, they already inherit a decent birth,
> nanny, tutor, education, home, coach, plastic surgery, justice,
> dentistry, gold digging sexual partners, holidays, boats, planes,
> cars, toys, secure drug dealer, job, club, pension, family plot....
> automatic pass card to the pearly gates... From privileged birth to
> privileged death with no other qualifications than a privileged egg
> and some weak but privileged sperm. :-)
There is already Medicaid for the poor, Medicare for the elderly, and
various state-funded programs for children whose parents don't buy
health insurance for them, as well as charities and other sources of
health care funding. And most people of modest means can actually
afford private health insurance or group plans from their employers.
If insurance premiums seem to high, perhaps that is because the system
is already having to pay the way for those who elect not to buy
insurance or whose life style choices put a burdensome demand on the
system.
AM
> Calling health care "an absolute right"
People who feel this way generally do not like
the fact that some people are born into better
circumstances than they. So they want the govt
to try and punish those people for it, and or
bring them up to that level (yeah right)
The USA was founded on the premise that one could
work hard, strive for better and achieve wealth on
their own. Many have, and their children get to
benefit from it.
We all are created equal, but not all have equal
skills, or behavior to get wealthy.
Those who dislike wealthy people are one's who
have not achieved it on their own......
--
AM
Quadibloc
> The USA was founded on the premise that one could
> work hard, strive for better and achieve wealth on
> their own. Many have, and their children get to
> benefit from it.
Well, there you are. It may be fair for someone who works harder to be
better off, but it isn't fair to the children.
On the other hand, it's clearly wrong to force some people to
subsidize other people reproducing themselves.
How do we solve this problem, creating a situation the Right and Left
can both recognize as fair and just - because the thrifty and
industrious get to keep what they have earned from their efforts, AND
no child is condemned to poverty because of the failures of his
parents?
I mean, it's so obvious, I'm amazed no one has thought of it before.
Sterilize all the poor people.
John Savard
AM
> On Dec 23, 4:51 am, AM <sctu...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> The USA was founded on the premise that one could
>> work hard, strive for better and achieve wealth on
>> their own. Many have, and their children get to
>> benefit from it.
>
> Well, there you are. It may be fair for someone who works harder to be
> better off, but it isn't fair to the children.
Why not ?? Every parent wants the best they can provide
for their children ! If you could provide wealth for
your own children you would not hesitate one minute !
>
> On the other hand, it's clearly wrong to force some people to
> subsidize other people reproducing themselves.
Many wealthy people give to charity, and even those
who are not, do so as well. I give to the poor, and
volunteer at Church and other places also.
It's when Govt's get involved, charitable organizations
and people back off. (mandate is another word for coercion)
Funny, when welfare got cut, a lot of people on it went
back to work... (laziness knows no bounds it seems)
> How do we solve this problem, creating a situation the Right and Left
> can both recognize as fair and just - because the thrifty and
> industrious get to keep what they have earned from their efforts, AND
> no child is condemned to poverty because of the failures of his
> parents?
>
> I mean, it's so obvious, I'm amazed no one has thought of it before.
>
> Sterilize all the poor people.
You've got to be kidding here ?
OK, now you have gone waay off the deep end here !!
Sorry but that's just not right !
Pierre Vandevenne
> wsnel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Calling health care "an absolute right"
Solidarity between humans is essentially why we differ from animals.
We've made a lot of progress in that direction, but it is still an
uphill battle.
> People who feel this way generally do not like
> the fact that some people are born into better
> circumstances than they. So they want the govt
> to try and punish those people for it, and or
> bring them up to that level (yeah right)
Tell that to Gates and Buffet.
On a much smaller scaled (unfortunately <G>) I have paid millions in
taxes, a lot of it going to social security. Guess what, it doesn't
bother me.
> The USA was founded on the premise that one could
> work hard, strive for better and achieve wealth on
> their own. Many have, and their children get to
> benefit from it.
One of the problems of our societies is that it is extremely easy to
make millions once you have a good start and fiendishly hard to save
$1000 when you have a bad start. While humans are indeed different in
their abilities, food, health care and education are a reasonable
minimum. In my experience, the ones who disagree with that are usually
people for whom money matters a lot, who worked hard for the little
they have (hey, humans are different in their abilities, right?) and
feel threathened when a poor kid walks on their lawn.
> We all are created equal, but not all have equal
> skills, or behavior to get wealthy.
and some people are deeply troubled when they can't afford the latest
gadget but couldn't care less when it comes to hungry or sick kids.
> Those who dislike wealthy people are one's who
> have not achieved it on their own......
The question is not whether one likes or dislikes "wealthy" (whatever
that means) people, but rather whether civilized human beings can
agree that food, health care and education are the minimum our type of
society can/should provide.
Leaving aside the fact that a society where uneducated hungry and sick
people represent a significant portion of the population is not an
agreable environment for the "wealthy", one can't hide from the fact
that progress, the very same progress that made the society we live in
more comfortable than the society of yesterday, is usually not the
result of the actions of conservatives.
AM
> The question is not whether one likes or dislikes "wealthy" (whatever
> that means) people, but rather whether civilized human beings can
> agree that food, health care and education are the minimum our type of
> society can/should provide.
>
To a point I agree with you. To a point.
It stops when the govt gets involved. If people were
allowed to keep more of their $$$, than they would be
able to afford more of their own health care. To those
who are making $$, and NOT providing for their own health
care, than they don't deserve the coverage.
Every time a govt gets involved in a program like this
most of the money spent is on bureaucracy. That is a
terrible thing to me. Govt *making* people pay for a
program means to me they want $$$ that they can spend
on what they think is right. Not necessarily what the
people want/need. (or even the program is was intended)
Why people do not realize that the $$ the govt has is
their OWN money. Govt's never generate income, or worry
about wastage.
Go into any hospital in the US needing help, you
will get it.
The real difference is in preventative
medicine. That is the quandary to me...
We as a species need to grow more first before these
ideals become commonplace.
Human nature is a tough thing to change.
We are what we are.