Spirit Pond, Maine
Steve Glines
Kensington stone. If you'll pardon the pun, few stones have been left
unturned. I would like to see the same depth of examination go into the
Spirit Pond stones. How about it folks.
SG
Tom McDonald
Steve,
Please bring your face over here so I can smack it! ;-)
--
Tom McDonald
Eric Stevens
wrote:
Good suggestion.
At least one of them is a fake in that it uses at least one of the
same anomalous runes as the KRS. It was found later than the KRS so
obviously was copied from it by the forger. Alternatively the masonic
plot was more widespread than even the fertile imagination of Martin
Reboul can imagine. :-)
Eric Stevens
Tom McDonald
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 00:45:43 GMT, Steve Glines <sgl...@is-cs.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Over the past ten years we have had a delightful dialog over the
>>Kensington stone. If you'll pardon the pun, few stones have been left
>>unturned. I would like to see the same depth of examination go into the
>>Spirit Pond stones. How about it folks.
>>
>
>
> Good suggestion.
>
> At least one of them is a fake in that it uses at least one of the
> same anomalous runes as the KRS. It was found later than the KRS so
> obviously was copied from it by the forger.
So that's that sorted out. No more KRS threads in future. Hurrah!
Alternatively the masonic
> plot was more widespread than even the fertile imagination of Martin
> Reboul can imagine. :-)
You underestimate the esteemed Mr. Reboul, I feel sure of it.
I am certain that his paranoia is equal to the task. :-)
--
Tom McDonald
I E Johansson
"Steve Glines" <sgl...@is-cs.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:7voe22-...@mail.is-cs.com...
Hi Steve,
nice to see lines from your pen in the group again. Yes how about it.
Problem is that all images I ever receives don't make the stone easier to
'understand'. But of course it's a good suggestion to discuss it.
Inger E
>
> SG
I E Johansson
I am pretty sure you don't know who Steve is and his background if you want
to smack him in his face.
Inger E
"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:10l9hme...@corp.supernews.com...
I E Johansson
on the contrary you are just witness to the first small start of what will
be a flood of information relating to KRS and other stones AND context are
known for at least half of them. Not to mention other Pre-Columbian
Scandinavian artifacts....... Oh boy - if only you know what's to be
presented with full proof from many scholars around the world within the
next two years.
As one scholar who looked at KRS when it was here and who have listened to
both sides and who also have had access to full proof of every word I
written in group, said:
We will be writing down North America's Medieval History within a short
time.
And he is partly correct.
Inger E
"Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:10la2so...@corp.supernews.com...
Hal
> Tom,
> on the contrary you are just witness to the first small start of what
will
> be a flood of information relating to KRS and other stones AND
context are
> known for at least half of them. Not to mention other Pre-Columbian
> Scandinavian artifacts.......
Why don't you visit your local museum for a good selection of
Pre-Columbian Scandinavian artifacts. Most of them are probably
authentic. People will agree with you.
Oh boy - if only you know what's to be
> presented with full proof from many scholars around the world within
the
> next two years.
> As one scholar who looked at KRS when it was here and who have
listened to
> both sides and who also have had access to full proof of every word I
> written in group, said:
> We will be writing down North America's Medieval History within a
short
> time.
> And he is partly correct.
>
North America doesn't have a Medieval History. That's a European
concept that applies to some parts of Europe, at some times. It's
pretty well meaningless elsewhere outside of theme parks and the
entertainment business. You mean you want to impose your little
universe on the world as it actually existed here. In North America we
were enjoying the last little bit of relative calm before the European
invasion. I don't think it matters a bit which one of you was first
discovered by people.
Eric Stevens
So Drake wasn't an Elizabethan voyager when he visited North America?
Eric Stevens
Tom McDonald
So Elizabeth ruled during the Middle Ages?
--
Tom McDonald
Eric Stevens
I don't quite know what you are driving at with that remark. The point
is that the labels applied to visitors are not chameleon like. They
remain fixed to the visitor. A Norwegian is a norwegian. A Medieval
Norwegian is a Medieval Norwegian. The history of Medieval Norwegians
in North America is the history of Medieval Norwegians.
I'm not arguing for applying the term 'medieval' to the rest of the
population of North America but denying its application to the history
visitors or colonists from Europe is being overly precious.
Eric Stevens
Tom McDonald
Sorry, I misunderstood you. That's what I get for paying
attention to Inger's exposition of English grammar. :-)
I took your remark to refer to the 'headsentence' of Hal's
post. I see now what you meant.
Still, I think Hal made an excellent point that we seem to lose
sometimes. We tend to look at this from the European point of
view. It's good betimes to remember that the funny pale boat
people were curious distractions from daily life for the huge
population of people (actually, mostly 'the people') already
living here.
Whenever we start this sort of investigation, I think we need
to recall that most of our ancestors were late-comers to the
lands we occupy, both in the Americas and in NZ. There is often
a desire of newcomers to feel rooted to their new homes, and
that often has taken the form of inventing historical
connections farther back in time.
In my own family, there is a legend that my parent's generation
was '1/64 Kickapoo Indian'. It may even be true. My great
grandfather on my mother's side's personal history is a bit
ambiguous, and he is said to have had some Indian blood. The
Kickapoo are a possible source of that blood, although there is
also a possibility that the tribal name was borrowed because it
sounds a little funny to many white Americans. In any case, I
felt good about that connection because it helped ground me here.
But as Vine DeLoria pointed out long ago, many white folks
invented this kind of legend in order to feel connected, and not
so much interlopers.
It is undeniably true that many European immigrant groups also
looked for signs of their ancestors, or at least Old World
folks, in the Americas in the pre-Columbian past. Scandinavians
were not the only ones by any means; and they turn out to have
at least some right to claim such.
However, before we begin the apparently inevitable slide into a
new discussion of Old World folks being here long, long ago, I
think we ought to take a little time to notice the historical
record of wishful thinking and prejudice creating phantasms that
a little rationality at the onset could have prevented.
Anyone for an investigation of _this_ historical reality?
--
Tom McDonald
I E Johansson
"Eric Stevens" <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet
news:rc1cl01ut2bnp50om...@4ax.com...
Apart from that I take it that Hal and many others haven't heard latest
information re. the Indian practise to write down information on bark. Eric,
I believe it was you who one way or an other gave me a hint of an url from
where I have 'walked' to articles in Journals. Can't you send some
information re. the Pre-Columbian Indian writing which has been ignored upto
lately.
Inger E
>
>
>
> Eric Stevens
I E Johansson
Tom,
what you don't seem to be aware of is that it's not only 'white man' from
Europe who has knowledge written or oral about the history of NA from 11th
century on forward. AND 11th century to 1500 belongs to the Late Medieval
Age.
Inger E
>
> --
> Tom McDonald
Hal
Drake here didn't know what an elizabethan was, nor what kind of
political or economic baggage they carried. His arrival doesn't confer
a Medieval History on North America in any meaningful sence ouside of a
cheap debating arena. That wasn't just a cheap debating question you
asked, was it?(and out of curiousity, what was the end date of your
Medieval History period?)
>
>
> Eric Stevens
Hal
The labels in your example were applied by the visitors to themselves,
not to the visitors by North Americans. Nobody here cared what they
called themselves nor how often they changed it.
A Norwegian is a norwegian. A Medieval
> Norwegian is a Medieval Norwegian. The history of Medieval Norwegians
> in North America is the history of Medieval Norwegians.
That's right. And the "history of Medieval Norwegians" is not
synonymous with the "Medieval History of North America".
>
> I'm not arguing for applying the term 'medieval' to the rest of the
> population of North America but denying its application to the
history
> visitors or colonists from Europe
My use of the term 'North America' is not synonymous with your use of
'visitors or colonists from Europe'. In fact some might attach a
disparaging label to someone who thinks like that.
>is being overly precious.
Your inability to read or write with understanding is no reason to get
insulting.
>
>
>
>
> Eric Stevens
Hyperoglyphe
"I E Johansson" <ingerxjo...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:reu5d.104233$dP1.3...@newsc.telia.net...
>
> "Tom McDonald" <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> skrev i meddelandet
> news:10lcl7i...@corp.supernews.com...
[...]
>> Anyone for an investigation of _this_ historical reality?
>
> Tom,
> what you don't seem to be aware of is that it's not only 'white man' from
> Europe who has knowledge written or oral about the history of NA from 11th
> century on forward. AND 11th century to 1500 belongs to the Late Medieval
> Age.
>
> Inger E
Did this thread start because we had passed the 1000 post mark for the last
KRS thread?
Bark historical records from the 11th century? I'd like to see that!
Dave
Kjetil Rå Hauge
4156d0c7$0$29407$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au, "Hyperoglyphe"
<hypero...@schlockmail.com> wrote:
> Bark historical records from the 11th century? I'd like to see that!
No problem if you go to Novgorod:
<http://eng.novgorod-museum.ru/museums/coll/archeo.shtml>.
I E Johansson
"Hal" <Spam...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1096197733....@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com...
Hal,
I guess you haven't been told anything about the artifacts(plural) that
Elderly of tribes belonging to First Nation got long before Elizabetanian
era and they have had up to Modern time? Correct?
Inger E
> >
> >
> > Eric Stevens
>
Hal
> Hal,
> I guess you haven't been told anything about the artifacts(plural)
that
> Elderly of tribes belonging to First Nation got long before
Elizabetanian
> era and they have had up to Modern time? Correct?
>
> Inger E
>
Wrong. I guess you haven't been told about how much pre elizabethan
material exists across North America.
Tom McDonald
Hal,
I've seen only the smallest bit of that material. Museums,
universities, libraries, personal collections, tribal
organizations, art galleries, etc., are full to overflowing with
it. In fact, most public and many private collections are so
huge that most of it isn't even on display, being held in storage.
Inger seems to be ignorant of this huge mass of material. That
may be because it doesn't support her personal views. But then,
most of us are blind in some areas. Inger isn't alone in this.
--
Tom McDonald
Eric Stevens
Sorry, I now don't even know where to start looking for it.
Eric Stevens
I E Johansson
I am not ignorant of the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts in NA, BUT and
there is a bigh BUT contrary to several hundred Scandinavian and Greenlandic
Pre-Columbian artifacts which I know from excavation reports and photos to
have been found either in layers dated to Pre-Columbian days or under more
than 100 cm sedimentlayer below todays surface, I never been able to find
one single such excavation report which dates the layer around the
Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts to be contemporary with their age or at
least having been found in Pre-Columbian dated layer under surface.
That's the big difference. If you know of any such excavation report I am
sure that many here would be glad to here more about that.
Inger E
I E Johansson
Sorry but I thought it was you who sent me that information. Well I had it
from someone in group one of the last 10 days and that was after I restarted
my computer. Guess I have to look into other mails than from you Eric for
that article I received an url to. I will return.
Inger E
>
>
>
> Eric Stevens
>
I E Johansson
Wrong, but I know none with proven provency and context.
As for the artifacts I refer to, your name aren't on the list from those who
have or have had the artifacts I am speaking of- that I know of. So we
definitely are speaking of different artifacts. Well it's nice to know that
there are more to be added to the documentation lists which now is being put
together.
Inger E
>
Tedd Jacobs
"I E Johansson" wrote...
absolutely. i would love to hear more about the excavation reports to which
you refer. where are they published?
Tom McDonald
Tedd,
There are tens of thousands of excavation reports that refer to
pre-Columbian artifacts in the New World. There are even more
that refer to pre-Elizabethan artifacts in the New World. I'm
sure you've read tons of them yourself, as have I and most
others interested in the pre-Columbian story.
--
Tom McDonald
Eric Stevens
Tom,
You know very well that Inger is thinking in terms of pre-Elizabethan
artifacts of European origin while you are steaming past her in the
opposite direction talking about pre-Elizabethan artifacts of North
American origin.
Eric Stevens
Philip Deitiker
news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com:
> absolutely. i would love to hear more about the excavation
> reports to which you refer. where are they published?
lol. I feel a new excuse coming on.
--
Philip
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I E Johansson
"Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com...
Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in group
over the years - you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
lines upside down, that's your problem: You haven't followed up the ref
given and thus you have absolutely no idea what they deal about. Most
information needs to be found in articles, journals, books and works edited
before the second world war or during the last 7 years - BUT you need a good
University Library to help you to many of them AND you need above all a lot
of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be found on net you
know.... :-)
Inger E
>
>
I E Johansson
I haven't read more than a few hundred selected by scholar friends in US and
Canada who sent me them.
But and that's the difference between pre-Elizabethan artifacts and
Scandinavian/Greenlandic pre-Columbian artifacts, I never seen any report
where dating and context places one single pre-Elizabethan artifact in
pre-Columbian layers. Have you? On the other hand almost all of the reports
I have got hold of where pre-Columbian artifacts been found either falls
inside the 14C dating intervall fom 12th to 15th century layers OR can be
found to correspond with others that do including moorings with iron remains
inside them from Hudson Bay's Nelson River entrence down to Minnesota.....
the other route down via the south eastern corner of James Bay is confirmed,
but missed, in early explorers diary writings..... Funny but there still
seems to be a hugh gap of ignorance when it comes to French 1500's and
1600's text among English speaking scholars.
Lukas Pietsch
> [...] almost all have been presented with titles here
> in group over the years -
Hey, I want to be presented with a title too! Does one get one just for
being in this group?
And I always thought I'd have to earn my titles the hard way.
> you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
> lines upside down, that's your problem:
Do they get any easier when you read them upside down?
:-) SCNR
Lukas
David B
>
>
>there still
>seems to be a hugh gap of ignorance when it comes to French 1500's and
>1600's text among English speaking scholars.
Not ignorance, just cautious suspicion. When reading acounts of people's
experiences (in any language) it's important to try to understand the
psychology of the writer, particularly the tendency to explain the
unfamiliar in terms of the familiar.
David B.
I E Johansson
you are a joker in both sense... how are your own research going these days?
Inger E
"Lukas Pietsch" <lukas....@uni-no-hamburg-spam.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj8etl$qb4$1...@rzsun03.rrz.uni-hamburg.de...
I E Johansson
"David B" <tronos...@tesco.net> skrev i meddelandet
news:OdP5d.26$Na5...@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
That might be so. Anyhow I can't figure out why so many good linguists have
omitted parts of the diary writings when they translate from French to
English.... that I think is a big mistake if they don't tell it in their
comments. That some French sources only been translated into German is one
other big mistake. Can't figure out why.
Inger E
>
>
> David B.
>
>
Lukas Pietsch
> you are a joker in both sense... how are your own research
> going these days?
Trying to earn me my title. The hard way, as I said.
(Camera-ready manuscript of my revised PhD dissertation must be at the
publisher's by the end of this week...)
Lukas
I E Johansson
Would you please send the title and when it's due to be up. I will try to
get our University Library to get hold of a copy so I can read it. I am
looking forward to do so.
Inger E
(the 'x' in my answer-address to be omitted)
>
> Lukas
>
Lukas Pietsch
>> (Camera-ready manuscript of my revised PhD dissertation must
>> be at the publisher's by the end of this week...)
>
> Would you please send the title and when it's due to be up.
> I will try to get our University Library to get hold of a
> copy so I can read it. I am looking forward to do so.
A bit off-topic in sci.arch, but I can't let this opportunity for getting
some real good advertising pass by, so here goes:
"Variable grammars: verbal agreement in Northern dialects of English".
Tübingen: Niemeyer ('Linguistische Arbeiten'). To appear in spring 2005.
And, no, with "northern dialects" I do not mean Ingerish. Although you did
provide me with lots of delightful examples of variable subject-verb
agreement that I could have used. ;-)
Lukas
I E Johansson
"Lukas Pietsch" <lukas....@invalid-uni-hamburg.de> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj8ivm$r70$1...@rzsun03.rrz.uni-hamburg.de...
Joker once again. I can take that. You are a good scholar and the few things
I have got hold of is really interesting. One question - Which period are
you concentrating on?
well two questions.... How do you classify Northumbrian?
Inger E
>
> Lukas
>
>
>
Lukas Pietsch
>> "Variable grammars: verbal agreement in Northern dialects of
>> English". Tübingen: Niemeyer ('Linguistische Arbeiten'). To
>> appear in spring 2005.
>>
>> And, no, with "northern dialects" I do not mean Ingerish.
>> Although you did provide me with lots of delightful examples
>> of variable subject-verb agreement that I could have used. ;-)
>
> Joker once again. I can take that. You are a good scholar and
> the few things I have got hold of is really interesting. One
> question - Which period are you concentrating on?
20th-century dialects. People saying things like "they sing and dances", "I
go out and feeds the horses", "we're both right, isn't us", "them wee ones
is going to school", "there are a new school built over there".
There's also an excursus into the earlier history, though, and yes, a
chapter with something about Northumbrian. Including Scandinavians. You
might have heard about it, the 20th century is not the first time
Scandinavians have come to Scarborough to butcher the grammar of English.
Lukas
I E Johansson
Yeh,
know the old tale. But I can't vouche for Scarborough being founded by
Swedish Vikings - that might be so but I do find the citadel in York and the
museum more interesting in the speculation about Scarborough's past.
Mind you - I did put a Northumbrian Medieval text in the hand of a
non-linguist educated(hardly no English knowledge at all) friend from Borås
area and she could read it and tell the content even if she couldn't
translate it word by word. So who knows?
Inger E
>
> Lukas
>
>
>
Tedd Jacobs
"Eric Stevens" wrote...
i knew you were capable of inductive reasoning eric. ;^)
be that as it may, nowhere have i seen tom make any claim one way or the
other regarding the origins of pre-elizabethan artifacts. do you have any
evidence that contends otherwise? additionally, i believe it was inger that
brought the topic up, can you say for a fact what she thinks?
and lastly, since its my shout, mooseheads all around?
tedd.
--
David B
>
>That might be so. Anyhow I can't figure out why so many good linguists
have
>omitted parts of the diary writings when they translate from French to
>English.... that I think is a big mistake if they don't tell it in their
>comments. That some French sources only been translated into German is one
>other big mistake. Can't figure out why.
Most serious scholars prefer not to rely on translations anyway.
David B.
I E Johansson
Most serious English-speaking scholars seems to be non-French readers.
Especially non-Medieval French text readers....
Inger E
>
>
> David B.
>
>
Tedd Jacobs
"I E Johansson" wrote...
>
> "Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
> news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> you refer. where are they published?
>
> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in group
> over the years - you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
> lines upside down, that's your problem:
since i havent been here for years like some of the others, perhaps you
could, by way of scholorly courtesy, list one.
> You haven't followed up the ref
> given and thus you have absolutely no idea what they deal about.
again, since i havent been here, perhaps you may enlighten me.
> Most
> information needs to be found in articles, journals, books and works
> edited
> before the second world war or during the last 7 years - BUT you need a
> good
> University Library to help you to many of them AND you need above all a
> lot
> of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be found on net you
> know.... :-)
you are absolutely correct. and i have access to every university library
in the US, so i can fulfill the qualification of a good university library.
also, i have an enormous ammount of spare time on my hands currently.
Philip Deitiker
news:cj96c...@enews2.newsguy.com:
>IEJ Said.
>> you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
>> lines upside down, that's your problem:
# 55?
>> of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be
found on net you
>> know.... :-)
Translation, go find it yourself. (with a smiley face)
--
Philip
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Mol. Anth. Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DNAanthro/
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DNApaleoAnth at Att dot net
Lloyd
[snip]
> > "I E Johansson" wrote...
> > > Tom,
> > > I am not ignorant of the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts in
> > > NA, BUT and there is a bigh BUT contrary to several hundred
> > > Scandinavian andGreenlandic Pre-Columbian artifacts which I
> > > know from excavation reports and photos to have been found
> > > either in layers dated to Pre-Columbian days or under more
> > > than 100 cm sedimentlayer below todays surface, I never been
> > > able to find one single such excavation report which dates the
> > > layer around the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts to be
> > > contemporary with their age or at least having been found in
> > > Pre-Columbian dated layer under surface.
> > >
> > > That's the big difference.
[snip]
"Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com... WROTE
> > absolutely. i would love to hear more about the excavation
> > reports to which you refer. where are they published?
> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in group
> over the years - you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
> lines upside down, that's your problem:
That is arrogant and insulting
> You haven't followed up the ref
> given and thus you have absolutely no idea what they deal about. Most
> information needs to be found in articles, journals, books and works edited
> before the second world war or during the last 7 years - BUT you need a good
> University Library to help you to many of them AND you need above all a lot
> of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be found on net you
> know.... :-)
>
> Inger E
> >
> >
Perhaps, instead of causing yet another "Inger
won't post her references" debate, which seems to
upset you every time, not matter how justified, you
might just post the ONE such reference that you find
most compelling and unquestionable? Surely *that's*
not to much to ask of a scholar?
Lloyd
*****
Lloyd
[snip]
> > "I E Johansson" wrote...
> > > Tom,
> > > I am not ignorant of the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts in
> > > NA, BUT and there is a bigh BUT contrary to several hundred
> > > Scandinavian andGreenlandic Pre-Columbian artifacts which I
> > > know from excavation reports and photos to have been found
> > > either in layers dated to Pre-Columbian days or under more
> > > than 100 cm sedimentlayer below todays surface, I never been
> > > able to find one single such excavation report which dates the
> > > layer around the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts to be
> > > contemporary with their age or at least having been found in
> > > Pre-Columbian dated layer under surface.
> > >
> > > That's the big difference.
[snip]
"Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com... WROTE
> > absolutely. i would love to hear more about the excavation
> > reports to which you refer. where are they published?
> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in group
> over the years - you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
> lines upside down, that's your problem:
That is arrogant and insulting
> You haven't followed up the ref
> given and thus you have absolutely no idea what they deal about. Most
> information needs to be found in articles, journals, books and works edited
> before the second world war or during the last 7 years - BUT you need a good
> University Library to help you to many of them AND you need above all a lot
> of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be found on net you
> know.... :-)
>
> Inger E
> >
> >
Perhaps, instead of causing yet another "Inger
Doug Weller
> Sorry but I thought it was you who sent me that information. Well I had it
> from someone in group one of the last 10 days and that was after I restarted
> my computer. Guess I have to look into other mails than from you Eric for
> that article I received an url to. I will return.
This has been mentioned elsewhere recently, it's available from Amazon:
Picture Writing of the American Indians, Col. Garrick Mallery
1884, Reprinted 1972, 2 vols, Dover Press, paper
822 pages, 54 plates, 1290 illustrations, 6" x 9"
$15.00 Volume 1, $13.00 Volume 2
Doug
David B.
>
>Especially non-Medieval French text readers....
Well, I must admit I can't speak for those Americans, still less for the
Canadians...
David B.
I E Johansson
who is arrogant and insulting - those who asks for ref and have had them
more than once without checking them out and still believe someone else to
send the ref over and over again,
or
the person who have had enough of people(scholars and others) asking for
references and still 5 years after the ref been sent to the group still
haven't checked them out and when those people asks for same information
sent so many times before decide that Now it's enough?
If you had checked the ref I sent you wouldn't need to ask for them again,
if you haven't checked the ref there only can be two reasons: either you
don't bother to check ref I send to the group
or
you don't read more than first page on an url resp index in a book refered
to....
Neither makes it fair of you to say that I am arrogant and insulting.
Inger E
I E Johansson
"Doug Weller" <dwe...@ramtops.thisremove.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:7hebogn7av1f$.1mxc450txofgi$.dlg@40tude.net...
Thanks!
IEJ
>
> Doug
I E Johansson
"David B." <dav...@tronospamchos.freeserve.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:cj9ld3$fg5$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
The Canadians I know speaks both English and French, but only half of the
Americans I know does. Not everyone of those who speaks French can read
it.....
btw. spoke with Lukas under an other thread re. Northumbrian - asked him how
he classified 'that'.
Same question to you.
Inger E
>
>
> David B.
>
>
Tom McDonald
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:12:04 -0500, Tom McDonald
> <tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Tedd Jacobs wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Tom,
>>>>I am not ignorant of the Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts in NA, BUT and
>>>>there is a bigh BUT contrary to several hundred Scandinavian and
>>>>Greenlandic
>>>>Pre-Columbian artifacts which I know from excavation reports and photos to
>>>>have been found either in layers dated to Pre-Columbian days or under more
>>>>than 100 cm sedimentlayer below todays surface, I never been able to find
>>>>one single such excavation report which dates the layer around the
>>>>Pre-Elizabethian English artifacts to be contemporary with their age or at
>>>>least having been found in Pre-Columbian dated layer under surface.
>>>>
>>>>sure that many here would be glad to here more about that.
>>>
>>>
>>>you refer. where are they published?
>>
>>
>> There are tens of thousands of excavation reports that refer to
>>pre-Columbian artifacts in the New World. There are even more
>>that refer to pre-Elizabethan artifacts in the New World. I'm
>>sure you've read tons of them yourself, as have I and most
>>others interested in the pre-Columbian story.
>
>
> Tom,
>
> You know very well that Inger is thinking in terms of pre-Elizabethan
> artifacts of European origin while you are steaming past her in the
> opposite direction talking about pre-Elizabethan artifacts of North
> American origin.
Eric,
Of course. I think, as I wrote elsewhere, that it's worth
keeping in mind that there is far, far more to North American
pre-Columbian archaeology than Vikings. If we are going to
start another one of these discussions, let's keep that in mind.
--
Tom McDonald
Tedd Jacobs
> Lloyd,
> who is arrogant and insulting - those who asks for ref and have had them
> more than once without checking them out and still believe someone else to
> send the ref over and over again,
> or
> the person who have had enough of people(scholars and others) asking for
> references and still 5 years after the ref been sent to the group still
> haven't checked them out and when those people asks for same information
> sent so many times before decide that Now it's enough?
inger, i have neither been here for five years nor ever recieved a reference
from you. i'll appologize if asking one time for one reference is too much
for you.
from message news:cj96c...@enews2.newsguy.com...>
> "I E Johansson" wrote...
>>
>> "Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
>> news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
>>> you refer. where are they published?
>>
>> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in
>> group
>> over the years - you and others seems to have been blind not reading my
>> lines upside down, that's your problem:
>
> since i havent been here for years like some of the others, perhaps you
> could, by way of scholorly courtesy, list one.
>
>> You haven't followed up the ref
>> given and thus you have absolutely no idea what they deal about.
>
> again, since i havent been here, perhaps you may enlighten me.
>
>> Most
>> information needs to be found in articles, journals, books and works
>> edited
>> before the second world war or during the last 7 years - BUT you need a
>> good
>> University Library to help you to many of them AND you need above all a
>> lot
>> of time doing your homework- these things aren't to be found on net you
>> know.... :-)
>
> you are absolutely correct. and i have access to every university library
> in the US, so i can fulfill the qualification of a good university
> library.
> also, i have an enormous ammount of spare time on my hands currently.
please, may i have a reference?
Philip Deitiker
news:10lgr3a...@corp.supernews.com:
> Of course. I think, as I wrote elsewhere, that it's
worth
> keeping in mind that there is far, far more to North
American
> pre-Columbian archaeology than Vikings. If we are going to
> start another one of these discussions, let's keep that in
mind.
You mean when you remove Inger's obsession what is left of the
discussion of precolumbian American Archaeology in this group.
Not much. Even though there is probably 99 to 999 times the
material for discussion regarding asian derived cultural
evolution in the new world, this group discusses the 0 to 1%
of material that supposedly came from western europe in a very
brief period from 1000 to 1200 A.D. with exception for a few
improperly documented voyages and discoveries in the New World
that people, more or less, think are hoaxes or in Inger's case
simply bad opinion, or extremely misguided opinions.
Why it seems the Eric and Inger are so completely
disinterested in the archaeology here that has nothing to do
with any stretch of the imagination Vikings and Celts? Could
it be ethnocentrism on their part, or simly ignorance.
But who here is presenting these things or simply responding
to the falicious claims of kooks?
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here
> in group over the years
Judging by experience of your posting in soc.history.medieval, all
the references you post would have been vague, probably irrelevant and
almost certainly unobtainable. I work for a living, I certainly do not
have time to read a whole book just to find a reference that is
probably not in it, that is, unless it is on a subject I am interested
in.
Now Inger, what are the definitions of latitude and longitude? All
you have to do is look them up in a good dictionary, like the one you
claim to keep by your computer.
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Maternity is a matter of fact
Paternity is a matter of opinion
Hal
> Hal,
>
> I've seen only the smallest bit of that material. Museums,
> universities, libraries, personal collections, tribal
> organizations, art galleries, etc., are full to overflowing with
> it. In fact, most public and many private collections are so
> huge that most of it isn't even on display, being held in storage.
>
> Inger seems to be ignorant of this huge mass of material. That
> may be because it doesn't support her personal views. But then,
> most of us are blind in some areas. Inger isn't alone in this.
>
> --
> Tom McDonald
You're right Tom, we are all blind in some areas. It doesn't hurt to be
reminded of it either.
Hal
I E Johansson
now you are lying. Had you checked you would have found my ref to be all but
vague.
Here is examples from different threads in soc.history.medieval as well as
in sci.archaeology selected by a randomly chosen second part of a month last
year:
1)
Sat, 16 Aug 2003 00:39:22 GMT
Ivar Bardson - part 3 -OBS very long
"Prime Sources:
Adam of Bremen, Gesta Hammaburgensis Ecclesiae Pontificum, book 4, Chapter
37-39
Bull of Pope Anastasius IV
Diplomatarium Danicum, serie 1, II, no 1
Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 1 nr 66 and 67.
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 1 nr 71
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 4 nr 128
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 6 nr 36
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 7 nr 103
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 9 nr 84
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 10 nr 9
Icelandic Annals 1342 written down in 1637 by Bishop Gisle Odds
Ivar Bardarson, Det gamle Grønlands beskrivelse af Ívar Bárðarson (Ivar
Bårdssön), ed. Finnur Jónsson (København, 1930).
Nicholars of Thingeyres documents to the Papal See
Ordericus Vitalis, Historiske besetninger om Normanner og Angelsaxere fra
Orderik Vitals kirkehistorie I-III. Edited in 1889
Works:
Arneborg J, Norbverne i Grönland 1988
Jansen Henrik M,A critical account of the written and archaeological
sources' evidence concerning the Norse settlements in Greenland, Meddelelser
om Grönland 182:4, 1972
Mason Ronaldy, Great Lakes Archaeology, NY 1981
McGovern Thomas H., Bones, Building and Boundaries: Palaeoeconomic
Approaches to Norse Greenland
Rousell A, Farms and churches in the Medieval Norse settlement of Greenland,
Meddelelser of Grönland 86(1).
The Roman Church in Norse Greenland, editor G F Bigelow, "The Norse of the
North Atlantic, Acta Archaeologica 61(1991) page 142-150 Köpenhamn
2)Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:01:55 GMT
Nicholas of Thingeyre
"Baumgartner Alexander, Island und die Faröer, Freiburg im Breisgau, 1889
Rafn, "Grönl. hist. Mindesm.," Ill. 218,
Storm Gustav, Studier over Vinlandsreiserne, Vinlands geografi og
ethnografi, Kjöbenhavn 1888
Welauff Eric Christian, Symbolas ad geographiam medii ævi ex monumentis
Islandicis edendo prolusit Ericus Christianus Werlauff, Hauniæ 1821
Winsor Justin, Christopher Columbus, and how he received and imparted the
spirit of discovery, London 1890"
3) Sat, 23 Aug 2003 00:00:52 GMT
Ivar Bardson - Part 4 - Analyse of a text - OBS LONG
"AM 777 a4to " [obs inside text]
"Pope Clemens VI letter of18th March 1344" Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 6
nr 171, after original reg. in Reg. suppl. Clem. VI. an. II. p. 2. fol. 161
vs.
[obs inside text]
"Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 21 nr 83" [obs inside text]
"Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 2 nr 295" [obs inside text]
"Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 12 nr 98." [obs inside text]
in ref.list in the end of the article:
"AM 777 a 4to (Ívar Bárðarson's description of Greenland in an old
document)
Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 1. Nr 66 and 67. Original regest in Vatican
Archieve (Nic.III An.II. ep.39).
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 1 nr 71 Original regest i Vatican Archieve
(Mart.IV. ann. I. ep. 119.)
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 2 nr 295
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 5 nr 152.
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 5 nr 183
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 6 nr 36 efter Origin regest in the Vatican
Archieve (Johann. XXI. an. I. fol. 23. ep. 93).
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 6 nr 171, after original reg. in Reg. suppl.
Clem. VI. an. II. p. 2. fol. 161 vs
Diplomatarium Norwegicum band 6 nr 187
Diplomatarium Norvegicum, bind 10, no 9 edited in Grönlands hist.
Mindesmærker, III S. 96
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 12 nr 98
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 21 nr 66
Diplomatarium Norvegicum band 21 nr 69
Diplomatarium Norvegicum bind 21 nr 83. Edited in Grønlands Historiske
Mindesmærker III page 121-122.
Isländska annaler, där Biskop Isle Odds år 1637 ref. till äldre källa för år
1342.
Ivar Bárðarson, Det gamle Grønlands beskrivelse af Ívar Bárðarson (Ivar
Bårdssön), ed. Finnur Jónsson, København, 1930
works:
Arneborg J, Norbverne i Grönland 1988
Jansen Henrik M,A critical account of the written and archaeological
sources' evidence concerning the Norse settlements in Greenland, Meddelelser
om Grönland 182:4, 1972
Rousell A, Farms and churches in the Medieval Norse settlement of Greenland,
Meddelelser of Grönland 86(1).
The Norse of the North Atlantic, Acta Archaeologica 61(1991) page 142-150
Köpenhamn
The Roman Church in Norse Greenland, editor G F Bigelow"
---------
these type of examples can be found for every single month I have
participated in sci.archaeology and soc.history.medieval. You kenney have
been proven a liar.
Had you read the referense list; Prime Sources as well as articles and
works; then you also would have known that I have proven(!) the longitude
and latitude question you keep asking about. When I first wrote about that,
well back in 1997..... So stop lying and start reading!
Inger E
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:cja8oa$dc3$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
I E Johansson
"Hal" <Spam...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1096333669.1...@h37g2000oda.googlegroups.com...
Might be a good idea to remind you two and others of the hugh amount of
Pre-Hudson European and Scandinavian artifact all way from Ellesmore Island
down to Nelson River and other parts in Canada today at several Museums some
re-analysed with new question asked for the reason of their
finding-place....
Inger E
>
Tedd Jacobs
"I E Johansson" wrote in message...
> now you are lying. Had you checked you would have found my ref to be all
> but
> vague.
> Here is examples from different threads in soc.history.medieval as well as
> in sci.archaeology selected by a randomly chosen second part of a month
> last
> year:
<snip list of references provided by inger for soc.history>
> these type of examples can be found for every single month I have
> participated in sci.archaeology and soc.history.medieval.
excelent job in locating those references so quickly. i assume of course
that since it was that easy for you to provide the previously referenced
material you will, without hesitation, provide me with a reference, please.
i thank you in advance for the prompt, professional, and scholarly manner in
which you will handle this. out of courtesy to you i am providing reference
and quoting the original string in which i made the request in response to
you, since i know sometimes you are not able to see all the posts (which i
am assuming is why you have as of yet not complied.)
from message news:cj96c...@enews2.newsguy.com...
"I E Johansson" wrote...
>
> "Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
> news:cj7jv...@enews1.newsguy.com...
>> you refer. where are they published?
>
> Yes most were and almost all have been presented with titles here in group
I E Johansson
now you are abusive. If you were interested in following up ref. you should
have taken yourself time instead of complaining that you lack time. Everyone
has 10 miniuts here and there - a more time when travelling by bus, tram or
flying. No scholar can accuse any other scholar of not having presented
essential information if he or she hasn't followed up presented ref. You
Tedd as well as others who complain either aren't interested in following up
facts which aren't 'going' your way or asking new questions needed for old
riddles,
or you only ask questions about referenses because you can't present
contra-arguments in the threads where you ask for such. No other alternative
exist. Don't blame lack of time for your lack of taking yourself time - if
you don't have time to follow up ref and are interested to do so then you at
least could have kept away from abuse until you had the time to read!
More examples:
Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:48:44 GMT
KRS-text and 1366 - diploma "vi var"
"Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 9 nr 160"
please note that url to the diploma was sent in same article
Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:58:20 GMT
KRS and 1390 diploma "ded" used for eng. "dead"
"Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 4 nr 586"
please note that url to the diploma was sent in same article
Don't say that you couldn't have taken yourself time checking at least those
with one url to the ref diploma sent in the text?
Inger E
"Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> skrev i meddelandet
news:cjamo...@enews1.newsguy.com...
David B
>
>he classified 'that'.
>Same question to you.
Well I'm glad you put 'that' in inverted commas- even if by Northumbrian
you mean the dialect of the modern county of Northumberland, as opposed to
the ancient kingdom of Northumbria, it isn't a 'that"- the urban dialect of
the Tyneside suburbs is quite different from the dialect spoken further
north towards Berwick, which is more influenced by Scots.
David B.
David B
>
>kenney,
>now you are lying. Had you checked you would have found my ref to be all
but
>vague.
On the contrary, some of the examples you give are seriously vague. Happily
most of the correct details are now on Primesauce (and more should follow
this evening) e.g. for this vague (and even misspelled) reference of yours:
>Arneborg J, Norbverne i Grönland 1988
see:
http://www.trochos.plus.com/primesauce/sources.htm#51
David B.
I E Johansson
Yes it is today. Isn't. But I can't find the same type of differences when
reading Northumbrian texts. That's what makes me wonder a bit about the
'Scottish' language spoken in the Lowlands in those days might have been
less distinct then today. As for reading old text I must say that I enjoy
reading Medieval 'English' texts no matter what.
One I really love reading is King Alfred. Especially his will is interesting
reading.
Inger E
>
>
> David B.
>
>
Eric Stevens
Snort!
>
>and lastly, since its my shout, mooseheads all around?
Make mine a double.
Eric Stevens
I E Johansson
> I E Johansson wrote in message
<4T46d.104461$dP1.3...@newsc.telia.net>...
> >
> >kenney,
> >now you are lying. Had you checked you would have found my ref to be all
> but
> >vague.
>
> On the contrary, some of the examples you give are seriously vague.
No they aren't. Problem for you non-Scandinavians and also for many so
called linguists here in Sweden today are that if you haven't a real good
history knowledge(and I am not speaking of the ordinary school or High
School history-knowledge), then you miss a lot of the information in the
diplomas. A scholar studying for example Diplomatarium Norwegicum diplomas
need 'deep'-knowledge not only of Norway's history of the time but of all
the involved persons history as well. THAT's what makes you believe them to
be vague - they aren't.
Problem also is that hardly any of the needed information you have to have
can be found in English translated works. But it's worse. There aren't many
works you can lean to. First of all a majority of the works after WW2 and
befor 1985 deals with periods after 1500 AD. The few that deals with earlier
periods are mostly to be found among thesis written in Religion or History
dealing with Church one way or an other. Of course you can go to the Weibull
Professors, brothers and son to one of them and Lönnroth's work. Apart from
them most other don't give information enough one by one.
>Happily
> most of the correct details are now on Primesauce (and more should follow
> this evening) e.g. for this vague (and even misspelled) reference of
yours:
I have sent the information either same day or next week. At present I am
still working with Norumbega part 3 background. Due to my wonderful leg....
problem walking some days.... I haven't been able to check one detail at the
University Library.
>
> >Arneborg J, Norbverne i Grönland 1988
> see:
> http://www.trochos.plus.com/primesauce/sources.htm#51
Have you read Arneborg? What's interesting with Arneborg is that almost all
referenses seems to be presented according to the Prime Source's context.
THAT is something a lot of the modern scholars some tries to present here
had been better doing as well.... :-)
Inger E
>
>
> David B.
>
>
Eric Stevens
<tmcdon...@nohormelcharter.net> wrote:
Actually there does seem to be a great deal of possibly Norse (I
prefer that to Viking) artifacts lying around. Most of them are of
poor provenanace and tend to be largely ignored by the mainstream.
Nevertheless, Inger's enthusiasm seems to be at least partly justified
in that I get the impression that there is ground swell of new
interest in their study from reputable sources. Lets see what the
situation is in five years from now ("Good things take time, you
know")
Eric Stevens
I E Johansson
"Eric Stevens" <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> skrev i meddelandet
news:u19il01kg6lgh78f7...@4ax.com...
You will not have to wait that long Eric. The new analyses of several
iron-artifacts includes analyse of where the iron origin from in metallurgic
perspective, which method been used + study of all information connected to
the finding which in many cases already have presented a good context.
Inger E
>
>
>
>
> Eric Stevens
>
David B
>
>> the Tyneside suburbs is quite different from the dialect spoken further
>> north towards Berwick, which is more influenced by Scots.
>
>reading Northumbrian texts. That's what makes me wonder a bit about the
>'Scottish' language spoken in the Lowlands in those days might have been
>less distinct then today.
Until you've finished your work on early Scandinavian influence in America,
I would recommend that you try to avoid thinking too much about this topic.
The development of the English language and its dialects- even within the
UK mainland- is horrendously complex.
>As for reading old text I must say that I enjoy
>reading Medieval 'English' texts no matter what.
>One I really love reading is King Alfred. Especially his will is
interesting
>reading.
I prefer early poetry myself.
David B.
I E Johansson
only a short note - I have spent 20 years dealing with the Medieval English,
Medieval Frisian, Medieval Danish texts as soon as I had time. Had them in
two of my major Academic works as well.... The American connection has been
a third bone, when I needed something else to read and do research.
Inger E
Tedd Jacobs
> Tedd,
> now you are abusive. If you were interested in following up ref. you
> should
> have taken yourself time instead of complaining that you lack time.
i stated i have lots of time. i am not complaining about a lack of time.
> Everyone
> has 10 miniuts here and there - a more time when travelling by bus, tram
> or
> flying. No scholar can accuse any other scholar of not having presented
> essential information if he or she hasn't followed up presented ref.
you havent presented me with a ref. you also stated it would take 'alot of
time doing homework', ten monutes is not alot of time. secondly, i am
saying i have the time necessary.
> You
> Tedd as well as others who complain either aren't interested in following
> up
> facts which aren't 'going' your way or asking new questions needed for old
> riddles,
> or you only ask questions about referenses because you can't present
> contra-arguments in the threads where you ask for such.
i am not attempting to counter argue. i am asking for a ref.
>No other alternative
> exist. Don't blame lack of time for your lack of taking yourself time - if
> you don't have time to follow up ref and are interested to do so then you
> at
> least could have kept away from abuse until you had the time to read!
i am willing to read, i have the needed resources, i have the time. where
is the reference.
>
> More examples:
> Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:48:44 GMT
> KRS-text and 1366 - diploma "vi var"
> "Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 9 nr 160"
> please note that url to the diploma was sent in same article
>
>
> Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:58:20 GMT
> KRS and 1390 diploma "ded" used for eng. "dead"
> "Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 4 nr 586"
> please note that url to the diploma was sent in same article
these are not in relation to the topic for which you said there were
references.
>
> Don't say that you couldn't have taken yourself time checking at least
> those
> with one url to the ref diploma sent in the text?
you said the references were not available via the net and that one needed
access to a good univeristy library, and alot of time. i say again, i have
access to every university library, i have copius amounts of time on my
hands, and no reference to read.
as a professional scholar, will you provide me with the reference that has
been asked for?
I E Johansson
origin-writer is a forgery of that person's message and neither can be
answered as if the writer had answered at the places the reader from own
choice has decided to place the forged message - such person aren't behaving
in a scholarly way. It's NOT quoting when the reader picks part of a message
and pretend that it was intended to be placed where the writer definitely
NOT had any intention what so ever to place it.
Person calling themselves scholar showing so little respect for others
writing aren't behaving in a scholarly way! Tedd your lines and your
behavior doesn't show higher professionalism of yours!
Such lines aren't worth answering on!!!!!
Inger E
Kjetil Rå Hauge
> Tedd,
> now you are abusive. If you were interested in following up ref. you should
> have taken yourself time instead of complaining that you lack time. Everyone
> has 10 miniuts here and there - a more time when travelling by bus, tram or
> flying. No scholar can accuse any other scholar of not having presented
> essential information if he or she hasn't followed up presented ref. You
> Tedd as well as others who complain either aren't interested in following up
> facts which aren't 'going' your way or asking new questions needed for old
> riddles,
> or you only ask questions about referenses because you can't present
> contra-arguments in the threads where you ask for such. No other alternative
> exist. Don't blame lack of time for your lack of taking yourself time - if
> you don't have time to follow up ref and are interested to do so then you at
> least could have kept away from abuse until you had the time to read!
>
> More examples:
> Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:48:44 GMT
> KRS-text and 1366 - diploma "vi var"
> "Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 9 nr 160"
> please note that url to the diploma was sent in same article
When following up this reference I find that in the article
(<http://tinyurl.com/4t9gz>) you claimed:
> Nielsen has shown that a verb could be put in singular even if the subject
> is in plural. He has shown it from Swedish diplomas. Below I will present to
> you a Norwegian text(Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 9 nr 160) from 1366 where
> "vi var" is used in the same way as on Kensington Stone.
>
>
> "Varo the tha sate oc alsater vm fforda gioldh oc til sannynde setiwm vi var
> jnsigle ffor thetta breff giorth var degy oc are som ffir seghir."
However, "var" in this text is the 1st person plural possessive pronoun:
"our", not the past tense of "to be":
setiwm vi var jnsigle
place we our seal
In other words, the reference is invalid for your argument.
Alan Crozier
news:cjbv4j$o3a$1...@readme.uio.no...
This has been pointed out to Inger before (see http://tinyurl.com/6myey
where I reminded her that it was wrong) but she still insists on using this
worthless argument. Does she understand the meaning of the words she quotes
at all? Inger keeps asking for counter-arguments instead of abuse. When a
counter-argument demolishes her own argument, she ignores it.
--
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
Lloyd
I don't think the question had to do with your "randomly
selected" references.
Is either of these "random" reference to an "EXCAVATION"
report? Does either one provide reliable information about
pre-columbian artifacts, on the North American continent,
of european/scandinavian origin, in a dated context?
If you had provided (ever) *even one* such reference, it
would have taken you far less time cite it again than to
write all of the above.
Tedd has politely and rationally asked you for just one
such reference. And, of course, you accuse him of abuse.
Is it because you have no such reference, or because you
cannot remember where you put it?
Lloyd
*****
Philip Deitiker
news:cjbpn...@enews2.newsguy.com:
Well, at least the minorite scholar Tedd appears to be useful
for something but just how many excuses can he farm from her?
>> Everyone
>> has 10 miniuts here and there - a more time when
>> travelling by bus, tram or flying.
>> No scholar can accuse any other scholar of
>> not having presented essential information
>> if he or she hasn't followed up presented ref.
57?
>> facts which aren't 'going' your way or asking new questions
needed for old
>> riddles,
>> or you only ask questions about referenses because you
can't present
>> contra-arguments in the threads where you ask for such.
58?
>> No other alternative
>> exist. Don't blame lack of time for your lack of
>> taking yourself time - if you don't have time
>> to follow up ref and are interested to do so
>> then you at least could have kept away from
>> abuse until you had the time to read!
To bad I don't have a list for counting abuse claims.
>> Sat, 07 Jun 2003 08:58:20 GMT
>> KRS and 1390 diploma "ded" used for eng. "dead"
>> "Diplomatarium Norwegicum bind 4 nr 586"
>> please note that url to the diploma was sent in same
>> article
Ah 586, the moon and the stars have alligned.
Y'all get your Old Norwegian pocket translators out
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.pr
l?b=4058&s=437&str=
For someone with just gobs of free time on thier hands.
"
Nummer: 586.
Number: 586.
Dato: 11 Novbr. 1390. Sted: Lödese.
Date: 11 November 1390. Location: Lödese.
Brevtekst (fra den trykte utgaven):
Breifing from the one who writes this edition
Margrete mz gvss node Nor ges ok Swerik drotingh
ok retter arwinge ok festinne i Danmark rike bide
ok bide alle wore foget ok alle wore ebbes men
thz the inte beware sek mz her Milders
Alff goss vilket wi gewe ok unne frv Kistine
wor frenke i gen lir ok wegh ok bergh ok alt
henne federne her Milder Alff goss ok Rane
Jensson goss mz alt kvnlik ret ok taket
swinderlik i wor hengh effter thi henne
hosborde her Jens Herne ded er gvd hans sel
hawe thi for bide wi vnder wor hegest he#nth
thz i noket late tinte elles tinkalle
late frv Kistine her Jens Herne hostre wor
hwilken wor kere frenke err ierenswegen wore
thz so thz noken aff wore men thz ikke wilde
holde tho bide wi alle wore ffoghet ok embes
men thz the thin hinder late ok late retten go
screewet i Ledesse sante Mortens dach til witt-
nis bird tho henghe wi wort sekrete hent mz
wor wilge ok wort wesschap for thzte breff
screwet eftir gvss bird tusent iij hvndert oppe
thz halff semte sinne tvge orr et secreaa.
Tillegg: Bagpaa med anden lidt yngre Haand:
Her Milder Alffs gotz.
"
Enjoy.
Philip Deitiker
news:9zf6d.4395$d5.3...@newsb.telia.net:
>> > "Varo the tha sate oc alsater vm fforda gioldh oc til
sannynde setiwm vi
> var
>> > jnsigle ffor thetta breff giorth var degy oc are som ffir
seghir."
>>
>>
>> However, "var" in this text is the 1st person plural
possessive pronoun:
>> "our", not the past tense of "to be":
>>
>> setiwm vi var jnsigle
>> place we our seal
>>
>> In other words, the reference is invalid for your argument.
>
> This has been pointed out to Inger before (see
http://tinyurl.com/6myey
> where I reminded her that it was wrong) but she still
insists on using this
> worthless argument. Does she understand the meaning of the
words she quotes
> at all? Inger keeps asking for counter-arguments instead of
abuse. When a
> counter-argument demolishes her own argument, she ignores
it.
So basically let me understand this.
The thread starts with a proclamation about evidence in a Pond
in Maine, Tedd asks for her evidence and she gives two
references, one misinterpreting the use of our and has some
tangential bearing on the KRS in Minnesota, the other is
discussing the follies and fancies of Margeret.
Yes, this makes sense. Here I think is the strategy, she wants
people to waste time trying to translate obscure old norwegian
(looks to me to be pidgeon norwegian) whilst she goes ahead
and post more threads in which she has no proof of what she is
claiming.
Tedd Jacobs
thank you inger for once again prooving my point. :-))
Michael Kuettner
"I E Johansson" <ingerxjo...@telia.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:_9a6d.4384$d5.3...@newsb.telia.net...
>
<snip>
> You will not have to wait that long Eric. The new analyses of several
> iron-artifacts includes analyse of where the iron origin from in
metallurgic
> perspective, which method been used + study of all information connected
to
> the finding which in many cases already have presented a good context.
>
It's a sure sign that nothing will be forthcoming.
Do you still count excuses, Phil ?
That would be no. 57 ?
Michael Kuettner
"Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:cjbpn...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Could you please fup the stupid bitch to alt.usenet.kooks or
ignore her ?
Moronsson has never posted _anything_ worthwhile.
All her "Prime Sources" (yes, the stupid cow still is unable
to use the correct English term) are plain shit; i.e., they don't
support her moronic claims.
Use the google archives for her claims; but don't waste too
much time - you won't find anything useful.
But it's your time wasted ...
Cheers,
Michael Kuettner
Michael Kuettner
"Alan Crozier" <Alan.C...@telia.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:9zf6d.4395$d5.3...@newsb.telia.net...
> "Kjetil Rå Hauge" <k.r....@east.uio.no> wrote in message
> news:cjbv4j$o3a$1...@readme.uio.no...
> > I E Johansson wrote:
> > In other words, the reference is invalid for your argument.
>
Since her arguments are invalid anyway, is an invalid reference for
an invalid argument valid ? ;-P
> This has been pointed out to Inger before (see http://tinyurl.com/6myey
> where I reminded her that it was wrong) but she still insists on using
this
> worthless argument. Does she understand the meaning of the words she
quotes
> at all? Inger keeps asking for counter-arguments instead of abuse. When a
> counter-argument demolishes her own argument, she ignores it.
>
Err, no.
I still haven't seen a valid argument from the stupid bitch.
When people are poking holes in her brain-dead phantasies, there's
her four-step reaction :
a) "I've posted references for years"
b) "stop abusing me"
c) running away
d) posting the same shit again
Together with Stevens (the little bugger with the open mind) and
Deppo, she would have managed to change sci.arch to alt.kooks.krs,
if it weren't for Kookinski.
Thusly, we gladly read kooks.krs.combined.with.Heyerdahl.
Nicely done, folks. You've created a shithole just because you
wanted to be polite to a "lady".
"sci".arch ? It's a joke.
Cheers,
Michael kuettner
Michael Kuettner
>
> "David B" <tronos...@tesco.net> skrev i meddelandet
> news:sx86d.22$Yl...@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
> > I E Johansson wrote in message
> <4T46d.104461$dP1.3...@newsc.telia.net>...
> > >
> > >kenney,
> > >now you are lying. Had you checked you would have found my ref to be
all
> > but
> > >vague.
> >
> > On the contrary, some of the examples you give are seriously vague.
>
> No they aren't. Problem for you non-Scandinavians and also for many so
> called linguists here in Sweden today are that if you haven't a real good
> history knowledge(and I am not speaking of the ordinary school or High
> School history-knowledge), then you miss a lot of the information in the
> diplomas.
If you were an example of "history knowledge"[sic], I'd say nuke Sweden
and pave it over.
The "information" you've gathered is a result of your shitty Latin, btw.
Now fuck off and try to get a job, moron.
Tedd Jacobs
"Michael Kuettner" wrote...
>
> "Tedd Jacobs" <Jac...@mail.boisestate.edu> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:cjbpn...@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
> Could you please fup the stupid bitch to alt.usenet.kooks or
> ignore her ?
my appologies. from here on i will aspire to refrain, for your sake, from
writing things you might read.
Daryl Krupa
<snip>
> and lastly, since its my shout, mooseheads all around?
Only if I can get it in a stubby.
I keep chipping my teeth on the longnecks.
Hosehead
Tedd Jacobs
news:2ru4u7F...@uni-berlin.de
i see something resembling hypocracy.
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
ingerxjo...@telia.com (I E Johansson) wrote:
> down to Nelson River and other parts in Canada today at several
> Museums
Which Museums Inger?
Ken Young
ken...@cix.co.uk
Maternity is a matter of fact
Paternity is a matter of opinion
David B.
>
Suit yourself. Meanwhile, the latest addition to Primesauce is not exactly
what anybody expected (least of all me):
http://www.trochos.plus.com/primesauce/greenland.htm
David B.
Philip Deitiker
news:c70365ef.04092...@posting.google.com:
Something I don't get, Spirit pond was once a tidal pond, for
how long we don't know, a man in a yellow dingy finds 3
stones, right, these stones are supposed to be from 1340 to
1002 A.D.
Statistical probability, what is the likelihood of finding 3
stones in one location after 700 to 1000 years given a tidal
pond, lots of water erosion, odds of catastrophic storms or
hard cold winters with sea ice in peripheral ponds, pushing
those stones into deeper water, and all those kinds of
variables. What are the odds in addition that if for some odd
reason those stones did actually survive, that they would not
be discovered until 1971. Are we making the argument that no-
one investigated this pond, even though they damned it up
until 1971.
I remember once a little sci-fi flick, forget the exact name
by which a spaceship was based on an infinite improbability
drive, sort of suck in improbable instances like space
travelers on doomed worlds.
Here's another statistical improbability. Over Norway and
Sweded a handful of runestones were discovered, with 100s of
years and 100,000s of peoples to make such stones. Oddly it
seems they are claiming 3 runestones discovered in the U.S.
with nowhere even close to a potential of a fraction of 1% of
the population. What are the odds of that. Even for people to
have carried the secret art in secret societies there have to
be numbers produced every 100 years in the region.
Here is another infinite improbability, what are the odds of
a gang of norse ending up in Minnisota, with a mason,
freemason (at best 50 years in existence), stone carver. Even
more odd there are apparently scots and brits aboard but only
gaeths and norwegians are killed.
Here is another infinite improbability, upon their return a
legend is written in a book, but know one from whence the
legend was written is aware of it, about a journey of norse,
but instead of the norse conveying the story directly a
flemish voyager learns about the story in Norway from an
account from a man where the legend is written up. We then
learn later that his account of that account is lost and that
account, from the place where the original account was written
and lost and forgotten completely, relies on the account of
the flemishman who traveled to a land where the cotravelers
were from, but has no account from them, but from a different
account who from the same land which we have our current
account.
More improbability, it took Louis and Clark 2 years to travel
from Missouri to the Pacific Ocean and back. For the most part
they knew were they were going for about half the journey and
they had Indian guide that saved thier skin a couple of times.
The distance a mere ~1500 miles over land. Now here this KRS
was carved in 1362, and yet our travelers are back in 1362,
and have sufficient time to write book with other legends
besides the stated, in time to get it to a conference in
Bergen.
If such things existed could you imagine how fast we could
drive the sci-fi spacecraft with these various accounts if
true.
Hal
>
> Might be a good idea to remind you two and others of the hugh amount
of
> Pre-Hudson European and Scandinavian artifact all way from Ellesmore
Island
> down to Nelson River and other parts in Canada today at several
> re-analysed with new question asked for the reason of their
> finding-place....
>
> Inger E
> >
Alright, go ahead and remind me.
Hal
I E Johansson
<ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk> skrev i meddelandet
news:cjctga$h89$1...@thorium.cix.co.uk...
> In article <8W46d.104462$dP1.3...@newsc.telia.net>,
> ingerxjo...@telia.com (I E Johansson) wrote:
>
> > down to Nelson River and other parts in Canada today at several
> > Museums
>
> Which Museums Inger?
I sent tk, the full title of one excavationreport dealing with the mooring
found under 120 cm sedimentlayer still inside the mooringhole, location a
creek a bit down Nelson River some month back, maybe 6 months back. Don't
have it in my computer at the moment.
For the others the analyses is underway and nothing has been said neither of
which museum it will end up in nor when the report is due to be edited.
Inger E
I E Johansson
fun that you can make jokes but prime sources for history are written or
oral accounts.
Inger E
"
I E Johansson
"Hal" <Spam...@gmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:1096418670....@k17g2000odb.googlegroups.com...
If I am not totally misinformed you are among those who have had contact
with K in Canada. For Canada please ask K.
Inger E
>
Horace LaBadie
Philip Deitiker <Nopd...@att.net.Spam> wrote:
SNIP
The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, a BBC radio play by the late
Douglas Adams, later adapted into a television series, and a series of
novels.
The spaceship was stolen by the erstwhile Glactic President Zaphod
Beeblebrox, inventor of the most potent mixed drink in the universe, and
his companion Trillian.
By the way, the inventor of the Infinite Improbability Generator, which
was based on a nice hot cup of tea, was beaten to death by his
colleagues.
HWL
Eric Stevens
wrote:
I suspect there are scenarios less improbable than the ones you have
chosen to account for the various events.
Nevertheless, your iiginal point about the history of Spirit Pond and,
sticking in line with the spirit of the thread (Spirit Pond, Maine) I
wonder if anyone can throw any light on it. For a start, can anyone
point to a map or a photograph of the site?
Eric Stevens
Alan Crozier
news:cjcu2n$3l8$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
Thanks for doing all this work for us, David.
Note: Your two links at #95 both lead to the same site. I have a feeling the
second link is supposed to take us to the new page about Greenland in the
Diplomatarium.
Alan
David B
>> what anybody expected (least of all me):
>> http://www.trochos.plus.com/primesauce/greenland.htm
>
>Thanks for doing all this work for us, David.
>
>Note: Your two links at #95 both lead to the same site. I have a feeling
the
>second link is supposed to take us to the new page about Greenland in the
>Diplomatarium.
Amazingly, no, though I suspect that quite a lot of the work I was doing
after midnight last night will be pretty wobbly
http://www.trochos.plus.com/primesauce/sources.htm#95 is meant to refer to
chapters within "Grønland: Vestre bygdi", which may shed further light on
the information in the Dip. Nor.
Odd that Inger hasn't understood the joke though
David B.
Alan Crozier
news:nCt6d.14$Te...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
Sorry, I see now that the sites linked from #95 just looked similar, same
author but different articles. I've now found the link I was looking for, at
#92
Philip Deitiker
news:nCt6d.14$Te...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net:
> Odd that Inger hasn't understood the joke though
lol. You need to dumb it down a bit. Actually, not a bit,
alot.
David B
>
>> to chapters within "Grønland: Vestre bygdi", which may shed further
>> light on the information in the Dip. Nor.
>
>Sorry, I see now that the sites linked from #95 just looked similar, same
>author but different articles. I've now found the link I was looking for,
>at #92
Whereas I've found a link I wasn't looking for, but which I thought highly
amusing (specifically its references to Erik Jarvik, whose career seems
eerily familiar):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2000/missinglink_transcript.shtml
David B.