Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

A Setback for Neandertal Smarts?

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Jack Linthicum

unread,
Oct 21, 2010, 8:10:53 AM10/21/10
to

Pic at the citation

A Setback for Neandertal Smarts?
by Michael Balter on 18 October 2010, 3:00 PM | Permanent Link | 0
Comments

Neandertals are looking sharp these days. Many researchers now credit
our evolutionary cousins, once regarded as brutish and dumb, with
"modern behavior," such as making sophisticated tools and fashioning
jewelry, a sign of symbolic expression. But new radiocarbon dating at
a site in France could mar this flattering view. The study concludes
that the archaeological layers at the site are so mixed up that
ornaments and tools once attributed to Neandertals could actually be
the work of modern humans, who lived in the same cave at a later date.

One prominent researcher even argues that this celebrated site, the
Grotte du Renne (literally "reindeer cave") at Arcy-sur-Cure in
central France, should now be eliminated from scientific
consideration. "This key site should be disqualified from the debate
over [Neandertal] symbolism," says Randall White, an archaeologist at
New York University. But João Zilhão, an archaeologist at the
University of Bristol in the United Kingdom who has often tussled with
White and other researchers over the evidence from the Grotte du
Renne, says that the new study "prove[s] the exact opposite of what
[its] authors claim."

The Grotte du Renne was excavated between 1949 and 1963 by the late
French prehistorian André Leroi-Gourhan, who found 15 levels of
hominid occupation ranging from about 45,000 to 28,000 years ago. This
period includes the overlapping occupation of Europe by Neandertals,
who show up about 130,000 years ago and disappear no later than 30,000
years ago, and modern humans, who arrived in Europe between 45,000 and
40,000 years ago and stayed for good.

Leroi-Gourhan attributed the artifacts in the lowest levels to
Neandertals and artifacts from higher levels to modern humans, based
largely on the types of tools they made. But the middle layers at the
site included bone tools, ivory ornaments, and other sophisticated
artifacts that Leroi-Gourhan attributed to a culture called the
Châtelperronian. Although Châtelperronian artifacts closely resemble
those made by modern humans, many researchers have attributed them to
Neandertals because they have sometimes been found with Neandertal
fossils. Indeed, at the Grotte du Renne, Leroi-Gourhan found about 30
Neandertal teeth in the Châtelperronian levels, which can be
distinguished from modern human teeth based on the size and shape of
their cusps and other features.

Most debates about the Châtelperronian—which begins about 40,000 years
ago—have revolved around whether Neandertals invented it or simply
copied the behavior of incoming modern humans. But recently, some
researchers have begun questioning whether Neandertals made the
Châtelperronian at all.

In the new study, published online today in the Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences, a team led by dating expert Thomas
Higham of the University of Oxford in the United Kingdom reports 31
new radiocarbon dates from the Grotte du Renne, using new filtration
methods to purify radiocarbon samples and remove contamination by
modern carbon sources, which has long plagued dating accuracy. The
dates, obtained on materials such as bone tools and ornaments made of
animal teeth, painted a disturbing picture: Whereas upper layers
attributed to modern humans clocked in at no older than 35,000 years,
artifacts from the Châtelperronian levels ranged from 21,000 years
ago, when Neandertals were long extinct, to 49,000 years ago, before
the Châtelperronian actually began. Indeed, Higham and his colleagues
found that at least one-third of the Châtelperronian dates were
outside the known time period of this culture.

The team concludes that the archaeological levels must have become
mixed over thousands of years and that younger artifacts made by
modern humans may have moved down into levels long thought to be
associated with Neandertals. "The evidence from the Grotte du Renne
ought to be viewed with extreme caution," the authors write.

The authors do not speculate on whether the layers became mixed
through natural sedimentation processes or excavation errors that
caused some artifacts to be assigned to the wrong occupation levels.

White says that the results should not be surprising, because Leroi-
Gourhan's excavations took place "at a time when excavation techniques
in general were rudimentary." He adds that only one other
Châtelperronian site has produced personal ornaments, in much smaller
numbers, meaning that claims that Neandertals were capable of such
symbolic expression rests heavily on the evidence at the Grotte du
Renne. But Zilhão counters that two-thirds of the dates are consistent
with Neandertals having made the Châtelperronian. The other, outlying
dates could be the result of contamination rather than mixing of
artifacts among layers, he says.

Yet Higham, who has been redating nearly 20 other Neandertal and
modern human sites in Europe, says that the Grotte du Renne is unique
in producing such wildly varying dates. "I think this is telling us
something," Higham says. "This site has some problems."


http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2010/10/a-setback-for-neandertal-smarts.html


Paper abstract


Chronology of the Grotte du Renne (France) and implications for the
context of ornaments and human remains within the Châtelperronian

1. Thomas Highama,1,
2. Roger Jacobib,c,2,
3. Michèle Juliend,
4. Francine Davidd,
5. Laura Basella,
6. Rachel Wooda,
7. William Daviese, and
8. Christopher Bronk Ramseya

+ Author Affiliations

1.
aOxford Radiocarbon Accelerator Unit, Research Laboratory for
Archaeology and the History of Art, University of Oxford, Oxford OX1
3QY, United Kingdom;
2.
bBritish Museum, Franks House, London N1 5QJ, United Kingdom;
3.
cNatural History Museum, London SW7 5BD, United Kindom;
4.
dArchéologies et Sciences de L'Antiquité, Unité Mixte de
Recherche 7041, Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, 92023
Nanterre, France; and
5.
eCentre for the Archaeology of Human Origins, Department of
Archaeology, University of Southampton, Southampton SO17 1BF, United
Kingdom

*

↵2Deceased December 9, 2009.

1.

Edited by Richard G. Klein, Stanford University, Stanford, CA,
and approved September 13, 2010 (received for review June 12, 2010)

Abstract

There is extensive debate concerning the cognitive and behavioral
adaptation of Neanderthals, especially in the period when the earliest
anatomically modern humans dispersed into Western Europe, around
35,000–40,000 B.P. The site of the Grotte du Renne (at Arcy-sur-Cure)
is of great importance because it provides the most persuasive
evidence for behavioral complexity among Neanderthals. A range of
ornaments and tools usually associated with modern human industries,
such as the Aurignacian, were excavated from three of the
Châtelperronian levels at the site, along with Neanderthal fossil
remains (mainly teeth). This extremely rare occurrence has been taken
to suggest that Neanderthals were the creators of these items. Whether
Neanderthals independently achieved this level of behavioral
complexity and whether this was culturally transmitted or mimicked via
incoming modern humans has been contentious. At the heart of this
discussion lies an assumption regarding the integrity of the excavated
remains. One means of testing this is by radiocarbon dating; however,
until recently, our ability to generate both accurate and precise
results for this period has been compromised. A series of 31
accelerator mass spectrometry ultrafiltered dates on bones, antlers,
artifacts, and teeth from six key archaeological levels shows an
unexpected degree of variation. This suggests that some mixing of
material may have occurred, which implies a more complex depositional
history at the site and makes it difficult to be confident about the
association of artifacts with human remains in the Châtelperronian
levels.


http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/10/13/1007963107

JTEM

unread,
Oct 21, 2010, 8:37:19 AM10/21/10
to

Jack Linthicum <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> A Setback for Neandertal Smarts?

No.

It really is a matter of perspective.

On the one hand the Neanderthals made our first
musical instruments that we know of, are credited
with the invention of a type of "Super Glue" and
may have even accomplished some sort of semi
domestication of animals. But....

But at the same time they show little evidence of
art, including jewelry, prior to contact with archaic
"Moderns," and don't seem to have taken advantage
of even obvious sources of food, like annual Salmon
runs.

Personally, I think the answer is simple enough: The
Neanderthals were intelligent, yes, but not in the same
way that modern humans are. They just plain didn't
think like us.

.....maybe it was a pattern thing. They weren't good
at pattern recognition.

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 22, 2010, 9:12:56 AM10/22/10
to
On Oct 21, 5:37 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip content-free rant>

> They just plain didn't
> think like us.

Did you channel Nostradamus for that?

Matt Giwer

unread,
Oct 23, 2010, 5:10:46 AM10/23/10
to
On 10/21/2010 08:10 AM, Jack Linthicum wrote:
> Pic at the citation
> A Setback for Neandertal Smarts?
> by Michael Balter on 18 October 2010, 3:00 PM | Permanent Link | 0
> Comments

This is a philosophical debate at the level of political.

It is best to stand back and let the big boys fight it out while we enjoy the
popcorn.

If I might add, while interesting, it has really nothing to do with human
evolution until remains of a neanderthal city is found.

They are not in our lineage physically or socially. They are only a curiosity
that vanished tens of thousands of years before the oldest artifact of our
civilization no matter what you consider that oldest artifact to be.

Our oldest artifact is post hunter-gathering no matter how you look at it.
Chimps are hunter-gatherers. We do not socially diverge until we do something
different. Certainly there were predecessors to that divergence but only after
it occurs do we have something interesting to study.


--
According to Edward R. Murrow a person is no wiser because his words go
around the world than when they only went to the end of the bar. This is a
ringing endorsement of drunken wisdom.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4285
http://www.giwersworld.org/holo2/ a11
Sat Oct 23 04:54:32 EDT 2010

JTEM

unread,
Oct 24, 2010, 8:21:01 PM10/24/10
to

Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

>         They are not in our lineage physically or socially.

Wrong.

The morphological evidence is strong -- stronger than
in most cases considered "proven" by morphology.
In fact, if it weren't for the politics you mentioned it's
likely that a Neanderthal contribution would have
been accepted long before the DNA evidence came
on the scene. And it did:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568,00.html

The social argument is vastly more difficult. In some
ways we really do resemble the Neanderthals more
so than the so-called "Moderns."

The neaderthals appeared to be something of squatters,
for example. They lived in a particular place (range?)
and exploited what they found there. The so-called
moderns tended to move with the seasons.

Which best describes us?

I'd say that we're more like the Neanderthals. We set
down roots, call a place "Ours" and stay there. We
don't wander.

Well, there are and have been many human populations
which do/did wander.

Gypsies? Bedouins? Some Indians following the herds?


Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 26, 2010, 1:38:03 AM10/26/10
to
On Oct 24, 5:21 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Which best describes us?

You mean you?
Sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com>:
From: "JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
From: Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
From: Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>


Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


Message-ID: <95u1m35kgle3iht43...@4ax.com>
"Posting under various aliases is sock puppetry, that's how it is
defined.
Word games won't get you out of it.


People take your parodies seriously (that's clear from the ones
you've
posted under the name jtem), and I suspect that you get a kick out of
that
- which suggests you are deliberately trolling. That you also post
them
under other aliases certainly looks like trolling.


Responses to a recent post of yours in talk.origins:
"JTEM is actually on the side of science and evolutionary theory; I'm
sure that his heading is parody. However - he is unnecessarily
confrontational, and it is often over ideas that are unsupported by
the evidence, or are not well thought out, and he doesn't always take
well to being corrected or informed. "


"t has been a long time since I have visited this group and I have
lost a sense of the disposition of regular posters. I apologize to
JTEM for mistaking his post as that of a creationism advocate. I am
sorry, sir. Nonetheless, I encourage any of the creationists viewing
my post to simply replace JTEM's name with theirs and maintain the
scientific challenge regarding outrageous biblical claims. Imagine if
those in the evolutionary biology camp suddenly started maintaining
that because there is no proof that men can walk on water
evolutionary
theory is therefore proven. Can you picture the outcry from
creationists? "


Other comments from posters in t.o:
" All the
intelligence leaves the conversation when JTEM snips out all serious
discussion without comment, so that he can focus exclusively on
insults
and responding to "counter attacks", as you call them. "


"JTEM is interesting, in that he apparently holds a view of evolution
that either discounts or ignores molecular data, and strongly
disagrees
with people who believe that the molecular data are good indicators
of
evolution. I've found his explanations of why he holds this
viewpoint
to be obtuse, not well explained, and laced with sarcasm and
'put-downs'.


As a result, JTEMs views on the issue are not very approachable, and
I
still have no clear idea of why he disdains the molecular evidence,
other than he's convinced that it is somehow wrong. It's a pity
because I learn quite a bit from the professional disagreements
presented here.


It is entirely predictable that these behaviors are acting like a
lightning rod on this n.g., and I have to wonder if that isn't JTEMs
intent. "


(to JTEM);"Why can't you respond without
injecting insults and sarcasm? Any meaningful content is swamped by
the noise in your message. "


"I take from this that you have no intention of laying off the stupid
and useless insults. So be it. "


"You frequenty ignore serous posts:


-You ignored my post where I explained the difference between the
idea
that "random means an event can't be repeated" and the idea that
"repeats can be evidence against randomness".


-You ignored me when I explained precisely why the words "over time"
are not superfluous in the sentence "change in allelle frequency
within
a population over time".


-You pretty much ignored my criticisms of your 'dog giving birth'
analogy.


-You ignored my reply to your criticism of the 'candy bowl' analogy.


-You ignored my detailed description of my idea of evolution,
genetics
and natural selection.


-You ignored my example of a time when another evolution corrected
something that I said.


All of these posts were in conversations between the two of us, in
many
cases I was answering a direct question of yours. They were all 100%
serious. It's possible that you considered them so ridiculous that
they didn't warrant a reply, but then that's not the kind of thing
you
do, if they were really that ridiculous you would have pointed it out
and tried to make me look stupid. The problem here is that they
completely refuted something that you said, and I you couldn't admit
to
it. You are a coward, plain and simple. "


about JTEM:
"Yes, since the one in question just showed up yet
again to declare that mere factual incorrectness in
each and every case doesn't mean he ever lost an
argument. That makes him pure essense of Troll. I
guess JTEM has some "Humpty Dumpty word
meanings"-style definition of what "JTEM lost this
argument" would mean. "
and in the same post:
""I guess that's why they call JTEM's ignorance,
invincible!"


"This is just part and parcel of a long chain of
evidence JTEM has provided here of being abjectly
stupid. Identifying JTEM as once again proven stupid
in JTEM's own writing is hardly breaking new ground
in talk.origins. "


From the thread you started called
GOD MADE ADAM AND EVE!
"The problem is the difficulty of distinguishing JTEMist argument
from
JTEMist parody. "


I particularly like this one:
"Ok....you can insult me one more time...it's what you do best when
you
have no argument. "


And from Mark Isaak:
"The "like watching a train wreck" analogy comes to mind, but it is
not
really valid. Train wrecks are not nearly as fascinating; their
twisted
wreckage looks pristine compared to JTEM.


I particularly like how he quotes himself and thinks he has proved
that
someone else said something. "

So it's not most of the posters in the threads in sci.archaeology and
soc.history.ancient don't think much of JTEM (that's putting it
mildly)."
Doug

Thanks Doug for exposing this trolling wothless piece of shit.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 26, 2010, 11:01:35 AM10/26/10
to

Well nobody ever accused this Lee/etc of ever being
able to post an intelligent word on topic, but...

Drooling, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:


> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Maybe you can explain it here:

You're posting an IP Address that you know for a fact isn't
mine, and can't support a word you say, because...

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 26, 2010, 12:10:37 PM10/26/10
to
"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>

Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Oct 26, 8:01 am, sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<nothing again>

Here is a short review of the troll JTEM's activities on other lists:

Thanks Doug, you have this weasel pegged.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 26, 2010, 12:13:50 PM10/26/10
to

Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Ironically, this is not only NOT my IP Address, but you
know it isn't my IP Address.

YOU have established that you don't give a shit about
reality. You're not unbiased, you're not the least bit
accurate and you're not even honest. You're a psycho
with a chip on his shoulder.

And, yes, I am laughing at you!


Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 26, 2010, 3:51:07 PM10/26/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Oct 26, 9:13 am, sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> And, yes, I am laughing at you!

I'll bet they all are laughing were you are committed.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 12:19:26 AM10/27/10
to

Sociopath, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Ironically, this is not only NOT my IP Address, but you


know it isn't my IP Address.

YOU have established that you don't give a shit about
reality. You're not unbiased, you're not the least bit
accurate and you're not even honest. You're a psycho
with a chip on his shoulder.

And, yes, I am laughing at you!

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 12:54:50 AM10/27/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
Sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<SNIP SNIP>

The only thing this shit head knows how to do
is snip.


JTEM

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 12:59:23 AM10/27/10
to

Lunatic, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

But you knew this was wrong, that it's not my IP
Address, even BEFORE you ever began obsessively
spamming this nonsense....

The rest of the post is equally as "Accurate."

Sicko.

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 9:04:37 AM10/27/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Oct 26, 9:59 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<more lies, it's all he knows>

History of a sock puppet, the moron JTEM:
http://tinyurl.com/39hlw25
"Ooooh, lookee here! Turns out JTEM has been accusing anyone and
everyone, for years now, of being sock puppets. What is it with JTEM
and sock puppets? Does JTEM harbour a sock-puppet fetish? Is he in an
illicit relationship with a muppet? Perhaps he was caught cheating on
Mrs Piggy, in bed with Lamb Chop. Clearly, his interest has nothing to
do with the Internet usage of the word, no matter how much he might
claim otherwise. He makes the accusations wildly, without any
rationale behind them, so clearly he does not actually believe the
Internet usage even applies.

So, given that he can only be thinking of physical sock puppets, we
can see JTEM is a very, very sick person indeed."


> Sicko.

Great sig line, fits JTEM perfectly.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 12:36:50 PM10/27/10
to

Demented, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Now I've tried explain to Lee/etc several times that as
he knows for a fact that the above is not my IP Address,
all he's doing is demonstrating his intense stupidity.

"Look! This isn't JTEM's IP Address, which proves that
it's his!"

Maybe someone who #1 Isn't part of the collective and
#2 has the patience can explain to this but job how
intensely stupid he's being.

Thanks in advance.


Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 1:50:18 PM10/27/10
to
On Oct 27, 9:36 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> "Look!  This isn't JTEM's IP Address, which proves that
> it's his!"

Really? Any sock puppet can steal a laptop and post at
McDs. IP need not be his. This shithead sock puppet knows this.

So let's plug into the complete list and see how it convicts
this spinless troll:

Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy
Sock puppet admission:
JTEM: "I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

George

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 2:59:03 PM10/27/10
to

He's going to type a rejoinder but only if (and when) he can get his
hand out of the sock

JTEM

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 6:29:36 PM10/27/10
to

Lunatic, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

But you knew this was wrong, that it's not my IP

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 27, 2010, 9:34:26 PM10/27/10
to

Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Oct 27, 3:29 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> The rest of the post is equally as "Accurate."

Says who, the snipping-asshole sock puppet JTEM?

Sock puppet admission:
http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy


JTEM: "I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

>
> Sicko.

Great sig line, fits you perfectly.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 5:28:27 PM10/28/10
to

Mind you, I'm not saying the turd posting as Lee/etc is
a moron because he's mentally & emotionally disturbed,
I'm saying that he's a moron IN ADDITION TO being
mentally & emotionally disturbed....

demented, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:


> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

But you knew this was wrong, that it's not my IP


Address, even BEFORE you ever began obsessively
spamming this nonsense....

The rest of the post is equally as "Accurate."

Sicko.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 5:30:07 PM10/28/10
to

George <gbl...@hnpl.net> wrote:

> He's going to

I see you didn't wander into any uncomfortable ground,
posting something requiring more than a few second
investment in thought...

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 6:15:37 PM10/28/10
to

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Oct 28, 2:14 pm, sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

http://tinyurl.com/39hlw25


"Ooooh, lookee here! Turns out JTEM has been accusing anyone and
everyone, for years now, of being sock puppets. What is it with JTEM
and sock puppets? Does JTEM harbour a sock-puppet fetish? Is he in an
illicit relationship with a muppet? Perhaps he was caught cheating on
Mrs Piggy, in bed with Lamb Chop. Clearly, his interest has nothing to
do with the Internet usage of the word, no matter how much he might
claim otherwise. He makes the accusations wildly, without any
rationale behind them, so clearly he does not actually believe the
Internet usage even applies.

So, given that he can only be thinking of physical sock puppets, we
can see JTEM is a very, very sick person indeed."

Message-ID: <87ocvgs2...@nospam.pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009

"JTEM is repeating a number of his lies, hoping some will
stick including

1. lies about my identity (Bill Taylor is someone
else.)

(and, depending on the post)

2. lies about what I posted.

3. lies about what a discussion is about.

The extent to which he is lying is strong evidence that
he is in fact a pathlogical liar. He has reduced himself
to figuratively getting into bed with Bill Taylor, one of
the most rabid homophobes plaguing this/these newsgroups
while pretending to be just the opposite.

And he's been complaining that I'm giving him a default
response when he posts the same lies over and over in spite
of the obvious fact that he is posting his garbage merely
as harassment (and possibly as an indication that he suffers
from Tourette syndrome given the language he often uses).

Until he has something substantial to contribute and can
express himself civilly, this idiot will get this canned
reply."

On Aug 5, 12:27 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
"This cite places the absolute oldest human remains
at around 6,700 years of age:"
http://www.jstor.org/pss/281063

JTEM

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 6:23:53 PM10/28/10
to

Mind you, I'm not saying the turd posting as Lee/etc is
a moron because he's mentally & emotionally disturbed,
I'm saying that he's a moron IN ADDITION TO being
mentally & emotionally disturbed....

demented, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> spammed:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

But you knew this was wrong, that it's not my IP

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 28, 2010, 8:22:06 PM10/28/10
to
On Oct 28, 3:23 pm, sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> snipped:

Gee, I wonder why?

> > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

> That's not my IP Address.

No one said it was. Any troll like you can steal a laptop and
go down to McDs and make a post. Your snipping
the deerfield addy proves I hit a nerve and you are trying to
hide it by snipping.

http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy
JTEM: "I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in

JTEM

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 4:13:53 AM10/29/10
to

This Lee/etc is as bright as he is original...

PaleoRetard, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Great, LeeTard, but that's not my IP Address, and you
know it.

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 8:36:27 AM10/29/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Oct 29, 1:13 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> snip snip:

Not a very original snip job. Snip this asshole:

JTEM can run, but he can't hide:

Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

JTEM

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 7:21:05 PM10/29/10
to

oh what a terrible setback -- the way this Lee/etc
misrepresented some posts of mine but only after
he posted an IP Address he knows isn't mine and
pretended is mine...

PaleoRetard, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Great, LeeTard, but that's not my IP Address, and you
know it.

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 29, 2010, 8:38:10 PM10/29/10
to

Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

http://tinyurl.com/39hlw25


"Ooooh, lookee here! Turns out JTEM has been accusing anyone and
everyone, for years now, of being sock puppets. What is it with JTEM
and sock puppets? Does JTEM harbour a sock-puppet fetish? Is he in an
illicit relationship with a muppet? Perhaps he was caught cheating on
Mrs Piggy, in bed with Lamb Chop. Clearly, his interest has nothing to
do with the Internet usage of the word, no matter how much he might
claim otherwise. He makes the accusations wildly, without any
rationale behind them, so clearly he does not actually believe the
Internet usage even applies.

So, given that he can only be thinking of physical sock puppets, we
can see JTEM is a very, very sick person indeed."

JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

JTEM: "I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."


Yes, the world knows you are nothing more than a shithead troll.

JTEM

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 2:27:51 AM10/30/10
to

I can point out all the retarded things this troll
has posted as "Lee" -- everything from alaska
being part of Asia to not knowing what "Race"
and "ethnicity" are -- while this moron has to
make shit up.

Check it out...

PaleoRetard, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Great, LeeTard, but that's not my IP Address, and you
know it.

Lee Olsen

unread,
Oct 30, 2010, 8:09:47 AM10/30/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

The confession:


JTEM: "I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

Talk about criminal activity, JTEM the troll is all over the net
with his cyber crimes.

http://tinyurl.com/39hlw25

On Oct 29, 11:27 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
cites his own lies, too dumb to make a direct quote.

J.LyonLayden

unread,
Nov 3, 2010, 6:48:05 PM11/3/10
to
JTEM- can you give me a link to any articles you may have on
Neanderthals having semi-domesticates anmimals? Thanks!

JTEM

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 12:11:03 AM11/6/10
to

I can point out all the retarded things this troll
has posted as "Lee" -- everything from alaska
being part of Asia to not knowing what "Race"
and "ethnicity" are -- while this moron has to
make shit up.

Check it out...

PaleoRetard, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Great, LeeTard, but that's not my IP Address, and you
know it.

JTEM

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 12:20:02 AM11/6/10
to

I'm not aware of any. I've read a few which basically
speculated -- based on the evidence -- that it's highly
unlikely that Neanderthals could have actually
domesticated animals, but they could have had a
semi-domesticated relationship with one or more
species.

Here's one such page (and don't let the title scare you,
as shockingly appropriate it is for this group):

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm

NOTE: I am excluding dogs from the above. There are
those who claim that dogs were absolutely-positively
domesticated 100 thousand years ago or more, which
would have been before so-called "Moderns" arrived in
Europe.


Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 12:45:31 AM11/6/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Nov 5, 9:11 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I can point out all the retarded things this troll
> has posted.....

JTEM

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 10:40:27 AM11/6/10
to

Psycho, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my
IP Address, not to mention names that aren't mine, because
you want everyone to know you're a fucking idiot? Is that it?
Or are you honestly too stupid to realize how fucked up your
actions are?

Nope, sorry, I'm not that skanky mother of yours. I'm not
going to pat you on the head and pay "lip service" to your
idiocy just to shut you up, not when I derive so much entertainment
value from your amazing array of illnesses.

Plus, compared to you I'm a genius!

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 10:48:08 AM11/6/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy
Troll JTEM 12 Dec 2007 04:18 GMT

"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

Yep, you finally got something right.

JTEM

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 11:52:31 AM11/6/10
to

multiple personality disorder, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my


IP Address, not to mention names that aren't mine, because
you want everyone to know you're a fucking idiot? Is that it?
Or are you honestly too stupid to realize how fucked up your
actions are?

Nope, sorry, I'm not that skanky mother of yours. I'm not
going to pat you on the head and pay "lip service" to your
idiocy just to shut you up, not when I derive so much entertainment
value from your amazing array of illnesses.

Plus, compared to you I'm a genius!

P.S. Did you ever figure out what "Late Pleistocene" means?

JTEM

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 11:54:49 AM11/6/10
to

This Lee/Rich/mclark/etc moron knows even less about
paleontology than Obama knows about winning a midterm...


Useless mental case, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 12:23:11 PM11/6/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

Message-ID: <87ocvgs2...@nospam.pacbell.net>

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 6, 2010, 12:32:17 PM11/6/10
to
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
On Nov 6, 8:52 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip snip, that's all the ashole has left>
Here is a sample of this retard's posting ability:
The virus JTEM misread:

"This cite places the absolute oldest human remains
at around 6,700 years of age:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/281063

Viruses are too stupid to make a direct quote, they paraphrase
wrongly however.

The word "around" 6,700 does not appear in that quote. Here is the
correct
reading by someone who knows how to read:


Washington State University
http://tinyurl.com/39edtcq
"The second group of elk and human bone fragments was clearly
found in good datable context, between layers of Glacier Peak
tephra estimated to have been deposited ca. 10,000 B.P. A
radiocarbon date of 10,750 ±100 B.P. (WSU 211) from shell in
earliest cultural level, plus the association with the 1965
finds, confirmed the antiquity of the human remains."

Only a sock puppet on drugs sees "around 6,700" and bugs under the
skin
where they don't belong. Please check yourself into a nearby
detox center.

You are too stupid to know the difference between "around" and
3 1/2 "beneath" means you are way to stupid to grasp the other
arguments that I was making.

RichTravsky

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 1:35:34 AM11/7/10
to
"J.LyonLayden" wrote:
>
> JTEM- can you give me a link to any articles you may have on
> Neanderthals having semi-domesticates anmimals? Thanks!

LOL!

Message has been deleted

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 7, 2010, 5:57:18 PM11/7/10
to

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
stupid shit JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> confessed:

"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

Yep, and it gets a lot worse for this scum bag:

Thanks Doug for exposing this troll.

JTEM

unread,
Nov 9, 2010, 11:59:41 PM11/9/10
to
multiple personality disorder, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my


IP Address, not to mention names that aren't mine, because
you want everyone to know you're a fucking idiot? Is that it?
Or are you honestly too stupid to realize how fucked up your
actions are?

Nope, sorry, I'm not that skanky mother of yours. I'm not
going to pat you on the head and pay "lip service" to your
idiocy just to shut you up, not when I derive so much entertainment
value from your amazing array of illnesses.

Plus, compared to you I'm a genius!

P.S. Did you ever figure out what "Lip Service" means?

JTEM

unread,
Nov 10, 2010, 12:00:31 AM11/10/10
to

multiple personality disorder, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 10, 2010, 7:34:48 AM11/10/10
to
On Nov 9, 9:00 pm, sock puppet JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> snipped:

<Yep, just as expected, the cyber criminal just snipped the
conclusive evidence against him. What's the matter, fat boy,
did I hit a nerve? Let's see what the shithead snipped out.>

> > Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> > In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
>
> You're compulsively spamming something that is not my
> IP Address,

So, you admit you are too stupid to use a free wifi addy downtown.
No one said it was your addy, moron. That has nothing at all
to do with your crew of sock puppets.

Do you really think everyone is as stupid as you are?
Your confession is plain enough:

JTEM

unread,
Nov 12, 2010, 10:21:12 PM11/12/10
to
multiple personality disorder, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153


> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 12, 2010, 11:03:40 PM11/12/10
to
Sock puppet busted:
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

2010 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <d6be8768-dfd9-4113-
a72e-428dc3e65...@t20g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>

JTEM: "This cite places the absolute oldest human remains


at around 6,700 years of age:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/281063

Sorry, the word "around" doesn't appear in your citation,
you made that up, you are mentally ill.

The word "beneath" does...
http://www.yourdictionary.com/around
Adverb:
(adv) below, at a lower place, to a lower place, beneath
(in or to a place that is lower)


http://www.yourdictionary.com/around
Around: (adverb) on all sides; in every direction

The world is laughing at you.

JTEM

unread,
Nov 15, 2010, 11:04:49 PM11/15/10
to

multiple personality disorder, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

You're compulsively spamming something that is not my


IP Address, not to mention names that aren't mine, because
you want everyone to know you're a fucking idiot? Is that it?
Or are you honestly too stupid to realize how fucked up your
actions are?

Nope, sorry, I'm not that skanky mother of yours. I'm not
going to pat you on the head and pay "lip service" to your
idiocy just to shut you up, not when I derive so much entertainment
value from your amazing array of illnesses.

Plus, compared to you I'm a genius!

P.S. Did you ever figure out where Alaska is, you retard?

Lee Olsen

unread,
Nov 15, 2010, 11:54:18 PM11/15/10
to

Look at this, the idiot sock puppet dropped his multiple IDs:
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Nov 15, 8:04 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> snipped:

Sorry, you can't snip the evidence:
JTEM:


"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

http://tinyurl.com/39hlw25


"Ooooh, lookee here! Turns out JTEM has been accusing anyone and
everyone, for years now, of being sock puppets. What is it with JTEM
and sock puppets? Does JTEM harbour a sock-puppet fetish? Is he in an
illicit relationship with a muppet? Perhaps he was caught cheating on
Mrs Piggy, in bed with Lamb Chop. Clearly, his interest has nothing to
do with the Internet usage of the word, no matter how much he might
claim otherwise. He makes the accusations wildly, without any
rationale behind them, so clearly he does not actually believe the
Internet usage even applies.

So, given that he can only be thinking of physical sock puppets, we
can see JTEM is a very, very sick person indeed."

Yes, that's quite apparent.

0 new messages