Scotland already has more identified Roman camps than any other European country
crunch
"It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
-----
David Christainsen
Peter Alaca
What helps?
This is the news:
"SCOTLAND already has more identified Roman camps than any other
European country – reflecting Rome's repeated attempts to stamp its
rule on the troublesome north.
Now the number is set to increase. The first comprehensive survey
of Roman remains for 30 years will boost the total of officially
recognised sites and give them greater legal protection, officials
said yesterday."
"Archeological experts at Historic Scotland are now setting out to
identify important archeological sites that do not have "scheduled"
status to protect them from development or unauthorised digging."
Roman-Britain.ORG names 160 Roman temporary marching camps in England,
149 in Scotland and 29 in Wales.
http://www.roman-britain.org/military/camps_england.htm
Kendall K Down
ups.com>
crunch <pchris...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
Er - you forgot to tell us what Barbara Theiring says about this.
Ken Down
--
================ ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIGGINGS ===============
| Australia's premier archaeological magazine |
| http://www.diggingsonline.com |
========================================================
crunch
wrote:
> In message <a25e8005-138d-428a-94a6-5308ca4ce...@o31g2000vbi.googlegro
> ups.com>
> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
> > "It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
> > against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
> > frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
>
> Er - you forgot to tell us what Barbara Theiring says about this.
Let's pause for some refreshment -
How Deep Is The Ocean -- jazz piano solo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpz7hAzB3lA
-----
Pause over -
Kendall, you have never satisfactorily explained your disapproval
of Dr. Thiering, my one-time mentor. If you care to, start
a new thread.
Other sci.archers should know that she once visited Qumran
to take extensive measurements that found their way into her
book - "Jesus and the Riddle of the Dead Sea Scrolls" but also
can be found on her official website.
-----
BTW Peter Alaca in this thread has different figures than my lead
post, which almost certainly are more accurate.
-----
David Christainsen
chazwin
> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> 21/11/2009 19:48 wrote:
>
> >http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
>
> > "It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
> > against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
> > frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
>
> What helps?
What helps? what helps?!!!!
Why don't you learn to read you half wit!
The article mentioned the pitch and advance policy of the legions in
the north ---IT HELPS EXPLAIN why there were so many forts, you fuck-
wit!
Peter Alaca
> On Nov 21, 7:22 pm, Peter Alaca <p.al...@invallid.invalid> wrote:
>> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> 21/11/2009 19:48 wrote:
>>
>>> http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
>>> "It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
>>> against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
>>> frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
>> What helps?
>
> What helps? what helps?!!!!
>
> Why don't you learn to read you half wit!
> The article mentioned the pitch and advance policy of the legions in
> the north ---IT HELPS EXPLAIN why there were so many forts, you fuck-
> wit!
Is that news? Not to anyone with the slightest interest and knowledge.
Whiskers
> In message <a25e8005-138d-428a...@o31g2000vbi.googlegro
> ups.com>
> crunch <pchris...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
>
>> "It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
>> against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
>> frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
>
> Er - you forgot to tell us what Barbara Theiring says about this.
>
> Ken Down
It's pretty obvious, isn't it? They were built by essenes who relied on a
lump of rock to tell them how far they'd walked and what time and date it
was. They thought they were in Jerusalem (or Babylon, or anywhere else
but Scotland).
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
crunch
> On 2009-11-22, Kendall K Down <webmas...@diggingsonline.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <a25e8005-138d-428a-94a6-5308ca4ce...@o31g2000vbi.googlegro
> > ups.com>
>
> >>http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/So-that39s-what-the-Romans.5842559.jp
>
> >> "It helps explain why Scotland has more than 200 military camps
> >> against an estimated 150 in England, and only about 30 in another
> >> frontier region, in the Czech Republic and Slovakia."
>
> > Er - you forgot to tell us what Barbara Theiring says about this.
>
> > Ken Down
>
> It's pretty obvious, isn't it? They were built by essenes who relied on a
> lump of rock to tell them how far they'd walked and what time and date it
> was. They thought they were in Jerusalem (or Babylon, or anywhere else
> but Scotland).
For you to rag Dr. Thiering is inappropriate.
-----
I would prefer it if you would post again on-topic.
Does not Scotland intrigue you? (I am part-Scottish
and that explains why I started this thread.)
David Christainsen
Kendall K Down
ups.com>
crunch <pchris...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Kendall, you have never satisfactorily explained your disapproval
> of Dr. Thiering, my one-time mentor. If you care to, start
> a new thread.
I have no intention of starting a new thread or discussing Thiering at
length. Suffice it to say that her ideas are unsupported by the
evidence - which she interprets in strange and fantastical ways - and
are rejected by just about every other expert in the field.
Kendall K Down
Whiskers <catwh...@operamail.com> wrote:
> It's pretty obvious, isn't it? They were built by essenes who relied on a
> lump of rock to tell them how far they'd walked and what time and date it
> was. They thought they were in Jerusalem (or Babylon, or anywhere else
> but Scotland).
Silly me. I should have realised.
crunch
wrote:
> In message <a762d0cb-4bd9-4978-abf7-cc610fed5...@p36g2000vbn.googlegro
> ups.com>
> crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Kendall, you have never satisfactorily explained your disapproval
> > of Dr. Thiering, my one-time mentor. If you care to, start
> > a new thread.
>
> I have no intention of starting a new thread or discussing Thiering at
> length. Suffice it to say that her ideas are unsupported by the
> evidence - which she interprets in strange and fantastical ways - and
> are rejected by just about every other expert in the field.
You have not yet done sufficient study of Dr. Thiering's
publications/articles to render a credible opinion of
her scholarly work; I was associated with her for over 4 years
because I was Moderator of a Yahoo Group on Christian
Origins, created by me so that she could give her views freely.
Let me back up to some key points about Qumran; you may
be interested -
More good news
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/qumran_origin/message/5479
"Here are excerpts from a very important review, in Dead Sea
Discoveries 11, 3,
of a book by the Israeli scholar Jodi Magness. The review, in
unusually
laudatory terms, marks a turning point in Qumran studies, the end of
the last
regime.
"The Archaeology of Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls, by Jodi Magness,
Grand
Rapids Michigan and Cambridge UK: Eerdmans, 2002. $26. ISBN
0-8028-4589-4
Review by Magen Broshi and Hanan Eshel, Jerusalem, Bar Ilan University
This is undoubtedly not only the best book on the site of Qumran but
also one of
the best books ever published on Palestinian archaeology. Magness is a
leading
authority on Roman Palestine. She has produced a highly readable small
volume
based in part on several innovative articles of hers that are already
accepted
as part of the scholarly consensus.
Her most important contribution seems to us to be her correction to de
Vaux's
chronological conclusions. The site, first settled in the Iron Age,
was
reoccupied only after a long hiatus and later than previously assumed
(not about
130 BCE, but somewhere in the first half of the first century BCE).
This stratum
ended at the end of the first century BCE (not 31 BCE, but around 4
BCE, during
the destruction which followed Herod's death. De Vaux was apparently
wrong in
assuming a long gap after the earthquake of 31 BCE).
Yet, by and large, the book is a well argued defense of deVaux's main
conclusion
that Qumran was an Essene settlement. This is perhaps the book's most
important
contribution. Qumran and the Dead Sea Scrolls suffered from a deluge
of
theories, ranging from the bizarre to the improbable. These theories
are
unquestionably mutually exclusive. The site could not have possibly
been both a
monastery (a term de Vaux never used) and a caravanserai, or both a
fortress and
an agricultural villa rustica. The scrolls could not have been at the
same time
Essene, Sadducean, Pharisaic, Christian, and a melange of books from
the Temple
archives. The 900 manuscripts of Qumran are essentially homogenous and
represent
the theology and practice of a sect. This proliferation of theories
constitutes
the Qumran paradox: few sites have ever been excavated in the Holy
Land which
are so well preserved, so unambiguous in their unique character, with
outstanding collections of books as serendipitous as these. Speaking
about the
archaeology of Qumran and ignoring the manuscripts is ludicrous. The
scrolls
finds in the eleven caves of Qumran are part and parcel of the
archaeology of
Qumran.
(..) The repeated efforts of scholars since Karl Heinz Rengstorf and
Norman
Golb, like Alan Crown, Lena Cansdale, Yitzhar Hirschfeld and Juergen
Zangenberg
to dissociate the manuscripts from the compound are untenable. The
suggestion
that Temple archives or just various Jerusalem archives were taken to
Qumran as
a hiding place is not borne out by the circumstances in which they
were found.
The overwhelming majority of the books (Cave 4 alone contained over
2/3 of the
lot) were not stored as manuscripts ought to be stored; they were
found lying on
the floor. Cave 4 might have been the community's storage room
vandalized by
Roman soldiers. The few scrolls found carefully stored, like those of
Cave 1,
were stored in a cylindrical jar the like of which was not found among
the
myriads excavated in Jerusalem. The rabid hatred towards the Jerusalem
Temple
and its personnel expressed in the scrolls precludes the possibility
that these
compositions could have belonged to the Temple.
(..) The reviewers are of the opinion that it is possible to prove on
the basis
of archaeological finds alone, even without the aid of the wealth of
the
manuscripts, that in the last 150 years of the Second Commonwealth
Qumran was
occupied by a monastic community.
(..) In her defense of de Vaux's identification of Qumran as a
religious
establishment, Jodi Magness is right. There is no doubt, the
settlement was an
Essene community.
Magen Broshi. Hanan Eshel Jerusalem, Bar Ilan University."
This removes much of the opposition that was preventing developments
in my
direction. There is, of course, still a way to go, but I would say
there will be
no turning back now.
B.T."
-----
David Christainsen
George
> This removes much of the opposition that was preventing developments
> in my
> direction. There is, of course, still a way to go, but I would say
> there will be
> no turning back now.
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.....
crunch
You are as ignorant as they come; why don't you
do some honest work for a change?
Present reasons for your position...
David Christainsen
Tom McDonald
You? Asking someone else to put their position in their own words?
That's comedy. Comity. Whatever.
Don't let that door strike you as you exit.
crunch
>
> - Show quoted text -
You, the non-archaeologist very knowledgeable about
archaeology, do not here take the opportunity to read the
excerpts from the Broshi/Eshel review of Magness on
Qumran. You should.
I am very sure that Magness is wrong on her chronology
of when the Essenes occupied Qumran because the
Essenes priests were expelled there around 140 BC.
Actually, proto-Essenes of the Enoch School had used
Qumran for astronomical studies many decades earlier.
Bottom line -
I say Qumran was an Essene settlement. The archaeology
of Qumran and the manuscipts cannot be divorced. In the
contents of the manuscripts is key technical evidence for
Christian pre-history...
-----
If you would, do a drastic re-think before shooting from the
hip again.
-----
David Christainsen
Jack Linthicum
> On Nov 24, 2:22 am, Kendall K Down <webmas...@diggingsonline.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In message <a762d0cb-4bd9-4978-abf7-cc610fed5...@p36g2000vbn.googlegro
> > ups.com>
> > crunch <pchristain...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > Kendall, you have never satisfactorily explained your disapproval
> > > of Dr. Thiering, my one-time mentor. If you care to, start
> > > a new thread.
>
> > I have no intention of starting a new thread or discussing Thiering at
> > length. Suffice it to say that her ideas are unsupported by the
> > evidence - which she interprets in strange and fantastical ways - and
> > are rejected by just about every other expert in the field.
> >...
>
> You have not yet done sufficient study of Dr. Thiering's
> publications/articles to render a credible opinion of
> her scholarly work; I was associated with her for over 4 years
> because I was Moderator of a Yahoo Group on Christian
> Origins, created by me so that she could give her views freely.
>
> Let me back up to some key points about Qumran; you may
> be interested -
>
Dated Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:20 pm
Sir David
No it's not. Her reputation as a scholar has been ruined by the
publication of her so-called pesher nonsense. Any attempt at
"rehabilitation" would be squelched by the juggernaut of your
hobbyhorse obsession with her, which is now the primary source of
content in any web search about her.
> You have not yet done sufficient study of Dr. Thiering's
> publications/articles to render a credible opinion of
> her scholarly work; I was associated with her for over 4 years
> because I was Moderator of a Yahoo Group on Christian
> Origins, created by me so that she could give her views freely.
And that whole experiment was a failure. She has now withdrawn from
any public discussion of her work, as a direct result of your
obsession with her. You have damaged her career and credibility almost
as much as she has.
> Let me back up to some key points about Qumran;
Ride that hobbyhorse, Crunch!
> you may be interested <flush>
You know full well that nobody is interested.
Peter Alaca
The subject of this thread is Roman camps in Scotland.
Tom McDonald
You are entirely wrong in everything you wrote.
--
Tom
When Tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing;
When friends rejoice, both far and near,
How can I keep from singing.
crunch
Really? Pray tell why. Do you say Qumran was
not an Essene settlement? Do you say that Broshi
and Eshel don't know what they are talking about?
David Christainsen
Tom McDonald
Yup.