Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Merovingian aristocratic burials Saint-Dizier, France

24 views
Skip to first unread message

Peter Alaca

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 12:37:32 PM1/31/07
to
This find never appeared in any English language
usenetgroup

_The grave goods of the aristocratic Frankish burials_
_at Saint-Dizier, Haute-Marne, NE-France_

"Merovingian aristocratic burials, excavated at Saint-
Dizier in 2002, yielded a very rich collection of
funerary grave goods. Today these objects have been
restored.
Two men, one aged and one young, a female
adolescent, and a horse were buried at this site
around the middle of the 6th century.

*Aristocratic burials
The two male tombs are funerary chambers (2.8 x 1.6
m) encased on the sides and bottom with oak.
Inside, against the north wall, the body of the older
man lies dressed in its coffin. Weapons and other
personal objects were placed at his sides: sword,
axe, scramasax, shield, purse clasp with a cloisonné
decoration, ring, belt buckles, knife. The funerary
chamber also contained hardware such as a bronze
basin, cauldron and bucket, glass bottles and
drinking glasses, along with large weapons such as a
lance and an ango.

The female adolescent was buried in a coffin placed
in a simple pit. However, the abundant jewellery that
adorns her, along with the dishware that
accompanies her, indicate a high social rank. Two
glass recipients are placed at the head of the coffin.
At her feet, there is a ceramic and a bronze basin
with a pearled rim.
She is wearing a necklace composed of around thirty
amber and glass beads and a silver bracelet on her
left wrist. Four brooches attach her clothing: at her
neck, two disc brooches with a garnet cloisonné
decoration, and at her waist, two t-shaped,
asymmetrical fibulas. Finally, the fifty or so amber,
glass and crystal beads covering the chest of the
young woman probably indicate the presence, at the
time of her burial, of an embroidered purse or other
object.

*A horse burial
To the east of the human burials, a rectangular pit
contains a horse. The animal is oriented in the same
direction as the humans (south-west/north-east), with
its head nonetheless to the east. It was buried in a
flexed, constrained position. This adult male horse, 8-
10 years old, was apparently in good health. It does
not seem to have died a violent death or to have been
sacrificed. Its first premolars show use traces
characteristic of wearing a bit, demonstrating that
this was a mounted horse. However, no harnessing
equipment was identified in the pit, though a bit was
found in one of the male burials. This burial can thus
probably be interpreted as the reuniting of a
horseman and his mount after death.

The Frankish aristocracy of the 6th century
The grave goods in these burials are exceptional in
terms of the materials used and their craftsmanship.
They belong to the elite culture of Franks, who were
probably local representatives of Royal power.
Indeed, to firmly establish their power, Clovis and his
descendants gave newly conquered territories to their
relatives or vassals.
Such tombs have been discovered on the margins of
Frankish territories (notably in Germany and
Switzerland), but in France those discovered and
excavated with modern techniques are rare.

*The archaeological context
This excavation is part of a programme of
archaeological operations conducted over the past
ten years at the Chêne-Amand activity zone. The
archaeological site was on the future route of an
interchange joining a ZAC to the national road 4
(southern detour of Saint-Dizier)."


Source: INRAP, 1 aug 2006
For images see: http://tinyurl.com/2brpfw

--
p.a.

Uwe Müller

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 2:11:19 PM1/31/07
to

"Peter Alaca" <p.a...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:45c0d3f2$0$25440$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...

Nice stuff.
Do you know if the graves were part of a bigger grave yard or if they set
apart from other burials?

Have the runes been 'translated'?

have fun

Uwe Mueller


Peter Alaca

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 3:16:15 PM1/31/07
to
Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:

> Nice stuff.

Yes, typical rich ("royal") merovingian.
If something like that is found in the UK
it is worldnews.

> Do you know if the graves were part of a bigger grave yard or if they
> set apart from other burials?

I understand there is a big graveyard, provisionally
dated 7th - 8th c, but not very close (200 m)

> Have the runes been 'translated'?

Don't know. With my less then impressive French
I searched for more information. AlI I found was this
pdf: http://tinyurl.com/ywjwaz. (18 pp, 1.2 mb)
An article about the site is on pp 16-18. As far I can
see there are no runes in it.

--
p.a.

Uwe Müller

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 4:29:07 PM1/31/07
to

"Peter Alaca" <p.a...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:45c0f921$0$93033$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...

I wondered about the decoration of the disc brooches. If you'd turn them a
little you would get a stylised bee (what's Zikade in English?).

> If something like that is found in the UK
> it is worldnews.

Imagine something like that near Boston :-))

>
> > Do you know if the graves were part of a bigger grave yard or if they
> > set apart from other burials?
>
> I understand there is a big graveyard, provisionally
> dated 7th - 8th c, but not very close (200 m)

So they could have been somewhat secluded from the rest of the community.
That would fit with other graveyards.

>
> > Have the runes been 'translated'?
>
> Don't know. With my less then impressive French
> I searched for more information. AlI I found was this
> pdf: http://tinyurl.com/ywjwaz. (18 pp, 1.2 mb)
> An article about the site is on pp 16-18. As far I can
> see there are no runes in it.

A more precise dating of about 525 to 550 for the rich male burial, a nearby
graveyard, 7th-9th c.and situated at a former roman villa, being dominated
by the three burials. The dating of the graveyard remains to be fixed more
precisely.

Nothing on the runes.

Thanks again

have fun

Uwe Mueller


Alan Crozier

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 5:30:25 PM1/31/07
to
"Uwe Müller" <uwemu...@go4more.de> wrote in message
news:epqplt$39c$1...@online.de...

The runes read "alu", a word that gave magical protection (or else
beer).

Alan

Peter Alaca

unread,
Jan 31, 2007, 5:54:00 PM1/31/07
to
Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:

>>> Nice stuff.

I see what you mean. A bit stupid to photograph them like that.
Like the 'bees' in childerik's grave.
But aren't the cicade/bees more gothic (or alemanic?)
than merovingian?

>(what's Zikade in English?).

Cicada.

>> If something like that is found in the UK
>> it is worldnews.

> Imagine something like that near Boston :-))

:-)

>>> Do you know if the graves were part of a bigger grave yard or if
>>> they set apart from other burials?
>>
>> I understand there is a big graveyard, provisionally
>> dated 7th - 8th c, but not very close (200 m)
>
> So they could have been somewhat secluded from the rest of the
> community. That would fit with other graveyards.

>>> Have the runes been 'translated'?

>> Don't know. With my less then impressive French
>> I searched for more information. AlI I found was this
>> pdf: http://tinyurl.com/ywjwaz. (18 pp, 1.2 mb)
>> An article about the site is on pp 16-18. As far I can
>> see there are no runes in it.

> A more precise dating of about 525 to 550 for the rich male burial, a
> nearby graveyard, 7th-9th c.and situated at a former roman villa,
> being dominated by the three burials.

Typical.

> The dating of the graveyard
> remains to be fixed more precisely.
>
> Nothing on the runes.
>
> Thanks again
>
> have fun
>
> Uwe Mueller

--
p.a.

Uwe Müller

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 2:24:55 AM2/1/07
to

"Alan Crozier" <name1...@telia.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:5M8wh.30867$E02....@newsb.telia.net...


That's a very practical thing. Get both, if you can manage, but be prepared
to be contend with either on it's own (probably an early archaeologist).

Thanks for the translation.

have fun

Uwe Mueller

Uwe Müller

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 2:29:41 AM2/1/07
to

"Peter Alaca" <p.a...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:45c11e0f$0$59803$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...

That's what came to my mind, too. I wasn't sure, if I wasn't making this up,
but if there are two of us ...

> But aren't the cicade/bees more gothic (or alemanic?)
> than merovingian?

The big find is Childeric, there are many, and many contested, views on the
symbolism of these animals.

The sure bet is napoleonic.

>
> >(what's Zikade in English?).
>
> Cicada.
>
> >> If something like that is found in the UK
> >> it is worldnews.
>
> > Imagine something like that near Boston :-))
>
> :-)
>
> >>> Do you know if the graves were part of a bigger grave yard or if
> >>> they set apart from other burials?
> >>
> >> I understand there is a big graveyard, provisionally
> >> dated 7th - 8th c, but not very close (200 m)
> >
> > So they could have been somewhat secluded from the rest of the
> > community. That would fit with other graveyards.
>
> >>> Have the runes been 'translated'?
>
> >> Don't know. With my less then impressive French
> >> I searched for more information. AlI I found was this
> >> pdf: http://tinyurl.com/ywjwaz. (18 pp, 1.2 mb)
> >> An article about the site is on pp 16-18. As far I can
> >> see there are no runes in it.
>
> > A more precise dating of about 525 to 550 for the rich male burial, a
> > nearby graveyard, 7th-9th c.and situated at a former roman villa,
> > being dominated by the three burials.
>
> Typical.
>

Indeed.
> snip >

have fun

Uwe Mueller


Peter Alaca

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 3:41:34 AM2/1/07
to
Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:
> "Peter Alaca" schrieb
>> Uwe Müller wrote:

>>> I wondered about the decoration of the disc brooches. If you'd turn
>>> them a little you would get a stylised bee

>> I see what you mean. A bit stupid to photograph them like that.

>> Like the 'bees' in Childerik's grave.

> That's what came to my mind, too. I wasn't sure, if I wasn't making
> this up, but if there are two of us ...

>> But aren't the cicade/bees more gothic (or alemanic?)
>> than merovingian?

> The big find is Childeric, there are many, and many contested, views
> on the symbolism of these animals.
>
> The sure bet is napoleonic.

Yes, and the fun is that Napoleon didn't know
that they probably came from a horse grave.

--
p.a.

Uwe Müller

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 6:13:06 AM2/1/07
to

"Peter Alaca" <p.a...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:45c1a80f$1$41402$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...

But then he was only interested in the symbolism, and that was thought to be
'status indicator' at the time.

have fun

Uwe Mueller


Peter Alaca

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 7:56:48 AM2/1/07
to
Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:
> "Peter Alaca" schrieb
>> Uwe Müller wrote:
>>> "Peter Alaca" schrieb
>>>> Uwe Müller wrote:

>>>>> I wondered about the decoration of the disc brooches. If you'd
>>>>> turn them a little you would get a stylised bee

>>>> I see what you mean. A bit stupid to photograph them like that.
>>>> Like the 'bees' in Childerik's grave.

>>> That's what came to my mind, too. I wasn't sure, if I wasn't making
>>> this up, but if there are two of us ...

>>>> But aren't the cicade/bees more gothic (or alamanic?)
>>>> than merovingian?

>>> The big find is Childeric, there are many, and many contested, views
>>> on the symbolism of these animals.
>>>
>>> The sure bet is napoleonic.

>> Yes, and the fun is that Napoleon didn't know
>> that they probably came from a horse grave.

> But then he was only interested in the symbolism, and that was
> thought to be 'status indicator' at the time.

A nice example for that other dicussion.

(In case people wonder what this is about:
At his imperial coronation, Napoleon wore
a cloak with golden bees because he thought
Childerik wore them like that. But now it is
thought that they were fittings of a horse harnes.)

--
p.a.

Uwe Müller

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 9:20:39 AM2/1/07
to

"Peter Alaca" <p.a...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:45c1e397$2$96572$dbd4...@news.wanadoo.nl...

> Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:
> > "Peter Alaca" schrieb
> >> Uwe Müller wrote:
> >>> "Peter Alaca" schrieb
> >>>> Uwe Müller wrote:
>
> >>>>> I wondered about the decoration of the disc brooches. If you'd
> >>>>> turn them a little you would get a stylised bee
>
> >>>> I see what you mean. A bit stupid to photograph them like that.
> >>>> Like the 'bees' in Childerik's grave.
>
> >>> That's what came to my mind, too. I wasn't sure, if I wasn't making
> >>> this up, but if there are two of us ...
>
> >>>> But aren't the cicade/bees more gothic (or alamanic?)
> >>>> than merovingian?
>
> >>> The big find is Childeric, there are many, and many contested, views
> >>> on the symbolism of these animals.
> >>>
> >>> The sure bet is napoleonic.
>
> >> Yes, and the fun is that Napoleon didn't know
> >> that they probably came from a horse grave.
>
> > But then he was only interested in the symbolism, and that was
> > thought to be 'status indicator' at the time.
>
> A nice example for that other dicussion.

Not really, it is too late for that, and the indicators include things like
the wooden burial chamber, the dominating but secluded poistioning on the
graveyard, the horse burial and a full set of weapons. No spurs, though.

If that was common with the earlier graves there would be no debate about
it.

>
> (In case people wonder what this is about:
> At his imperial coronation, Napoleon wore
> a cloak with golden bees because he thought
> Childerik wore them like that. But now it is
> thought that they were fittings of a horse harnes.)

have fun

Uwe Mueller


Peter Alaca

unread,
Feb 1, 2007, 11:01:01 AM2/1/07
to
Uwe Müller <uwemu...@go4more.de > wrote:

In the case of Childerik there can be no doubt that it were
high status burials. I meant the effect of changing perception
on the appreciation.

--
p.a.

flex...@ntlworld.com

unread,
Feb 2, 2007, 5:46:59 PM2/2/07
to
On 31 Jan, 22:30, "Alan Crozier" <name1.na...@telia.com> wrote:
> "Uwe Müller" <uwemuel...@go4more.de> wrote in message
>
> news:epqplt$39c$1...@online.de...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Peter Alaca" <p.al...@purple.invalid> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> Alan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Or, if you are a superhyperdiffusionist, "potato" in Hindi.

Pete Stretton

0 new messages