Re: BERING STRAIT . . . OR BERING CROOKED?
RichTravsky
> My late father, who only went to the fifth grade, used to say, "The
> problem with telling ONE lie is that you may have to tell a HUNDRED
> more lies to cover it up."
> <
> This certainly applies to the asinine theory of early man arriving in
> North America via the Bering Strait.
> <
> You see, the Pseudoscientific Establishment learned many long years
> ago that its theory of the evolution of man in Africa had a horsefly
> in its ointment.
> <
> NATIVE AMERICANS IN NORTH AMERICA.
> <
> Consequently, the pseudso had to conveniently manufacture a farfetched
> story to make poppycock of this historical fact.
> <
> So it came up with the prepostrous theory that early man on the
> African or even Eurpean continents trudged north -- spending years,
> more likely decades -- in an incredibly hostile environment, then hit
> the jackpot when it finally headed south.
> <
> But it just doesn't wash.
> <
> Common sense dictates that no tribal leaders -- in their right mind --
> would have searched for "greener pastures" by heading so far north?
> <
> True, they may not have realized they were heading north (assuming
> there were no maps or compasses), but they'd soon realize it was
> getting much colder and more hostile every mile they traveled.
> <
> Why would they continue? Why would they have started off in the first
> place?
> <
> How would they know that -- if they ever completed their trip --
> they'd be much better off than they were before? Nobody could've told
> them.
> <
> What would they have done for food? Once their supply was exhausted in
> that barren landscape, what did they eat?
> <
> How about the trip itself?
> <
> How did they protect themselves from the elements -- the sub-freeezing
> temperatures and the Arctic wind? How did they protect their torches
> from blowing out since they needed fire, yet there were neither
> matches nor lighters.
How convenient to ignore the archaeological, genetic, and linguistic evidence.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-06/uoaf-nbc062910.php
Fairbanks, Alaska輸 team of researchers, including several at the
University of Alaska Fairbanks, have found what looks to be the first
well-supported demonstration of an ancient language connection between
people in remote Asia and North America.
Their work is chronicled in "The Dene-Yeniseian Connection," a publication of
the Anthropological Papers of the University of Alaska. In the book, lead
author Edward Vajda of Western Washington University details his hypothesis
that the Ket language of Central Siberia is related to the North American
Na-Dene language family, which includes Tlingit, Gwich'in, Dena'ina, Koyukon,
Navajo, Carrier, Hupa, Apache and about 45 other languages.
...
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100628170926.htm
...
Genetic studies have shed light on the initial lineages that entered North
America, distinguishing the earliest Native American groups from those that
arrived later. However, a clear picture of the number of initial migratory
events and routes has been elusive due to incomplete analysis.
...
To resolve these inconsistent lines of evidence, the group sequenced and
analyzed 63 C1d mtDNA genomes from throughout the Americas. This
high-resolution study not only confirmed that C1d was one of the founding
lineages in North America 15,000 to 18,000 years ago, but revealed another
critical insight. "These first female American founders carried not one but
two different C1d genomes," said Ugo Perego of the Sorenson Molecular
Genealogy Foundation and primary author of the study, "thus further
increasing the number of recognized maternal lineages from Beringia."
These findings raise the number of founding maternal lineages in North
America to fifteen. ...
...
Alessandro Achilli of the University of Perugia, a coauthor of the report,
suggests that the number of distinct mitochondrial genomes that passed from
Asian into North America is probably much higher. "These yet undiscovered
maternal lineages will be identified within the next three to four years,"
Achilli noted, "when the methodological approach that we used in our study
will be systematically applied."
...
http://archaeology.about.com/od/yterms/qt/yana_rhs.htm
The Yana Rhinoceros Horn Site (Yana RHS) is located on the Yana river in the
Arctic Circle of northeastern Siberia (70 degrees north). It is the oldest
known human occupation within the Arctic Circle to date; the next oldest
widely accepted site discovered so far is Berelekh, at 13,000-14,000 years
ago.
Yana RHS was discovered eroding from a high Pleistocene terrace with a
Holocene overwash. The cultural materials were recovered both as deposits in
the cut bank walls and as beach deposits in the modern floodplain. Eroding
from the cutbank (and examined with a trench) was a cultural layer of
artifacts and animal bones (mammoth, bison, and horse), radiocarbon dated to
27,300 +/- 270 RCYBP.
...
V
<traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> details his hypothesis
> that the Ket language of Central Siberia is related to the North American
Absolutely correct. After further research, they will find that
American Indians, Canadian Indians, Eskimos and all of Polynesia have
their genetic heritage in Siberia.
Russia likely the home to the oldest civilization on the planet.
V
>On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:31:48 -0600, RichTravsky
><traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>
>> details his hypothesis
>> that the Ket language of Central Siberia is related to the North American
>
>Absolutely correct. After further research, they will find that
>American Indians, Canadian Indians, Eskimos and all of Polynesia have
>their genetic heritage in Siberia.
>
>Russia is likely the home to the oldest civilization on the planet.
Relevant excerpt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup
"Groups with mutation M168 (CT)
Main article: Haplogroup CT (Y-DNA)
The defining mutations separating CT (all haplogroups excepting A and
B) are M168 and M294. These mutations predate the "Out of Africa"
migration. The defining mutations of DE probably occurred in
Northeastern Africa some 50,000 years ago.[citation needed] The P143
mutation that defines Haplogroup CF may have occurred somewhat
earlier, perhaps even as early as 55,000 years ago, after the first
Out of Africa migration brought Homo sapiens to the southern coast of
Southwest Asia.
V
<traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>Intrepid wrote:
>> My late father, who only went to the fifth grade, used to say, "The
>> problem with telling ONE lie is that you may have to tell a HUNDRED
>> more lies to cover it up."
>> <
>> This certainly applies to the asinine theory of early man arriving in
>> North America via the Bering Strait.
Early Siberian genetics predates 'out of Africa" by 5,000 years. In
other words, 5,000 years BEFORE homo sapiens existed in Africa or the
middle east, homo sapiens were populating north America, Canada and so
forth. See below.
Absolutely correct. The genetic studies all support this. After
further research, they will find that American Indians, Canadian
Indians, Eskimos and all of Polynesia have their genetic heritage in
Siberia.
Russia is likely the home to the oldest civilization on the planet
which predates "out of Africa" by at least 5,000 years.
Relevant excerpt:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup
"Groups with mutation M168 (CT)
Main article: Haplogroup CT (Y-DNA)
The defining mutations separating CT (all haplogroups excepting A and
B) are M168 and M294. These mutations predate the "Out of Africa"
migration. The defining mutations of DE probably occurred in
Northeastern Africa some 50,000 years ago.[citation needed] The P143
mutation that defines Haplogroup CF may have occurred somewhat
earlier, perhaps even as early as 55,000 years ago, after the first
Out of Africa migration brought Homo sapiens to the southern coast of
Southwest Asia.
> ...
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
JTEM
RichTravsky <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> To resolve these inconsistent lines of evidence,
> the group sequenced and analyzed 63 C1d mtDNA
> genomes from throughout the Americas.
mtDNA is the wrong tool for the job. It just
can't answer the questions they're asking.
One blatant example would be Neanderthals. Using
mtDNA the status quo denounced any chance of
interbreeding for years, only to finally conclude
they were wrong. Another example is the human-chimp
divergence, which apparently occurred more than a
million years after it happened.
To illustrate the issue I usually point to my brother
in law. He has three daughters. So, 1000 years from now,
performing these tests on living descendants of his,
he would be undetectable.
See, because he only had daughters his y-Chromosome
was never passed along, and because mtDNA is passed
from mother to child his mtDNA is never passed along.
So, if, say, his mtDNA lineage is older than mine and
my sister's, this fact would be lost 1000 years from
now, as his would no longer be in existence.
Result: False date.
Now that's the micro scale. It's actually more likely
to happen on a macro scale. See, all migrations are
not equal. Take the Neanderthals for example. Their
population was never believed to be very large to
begin with (no human populations were that large),
and there were waves of migrations over a very long
period of time. The odds just plain favored "new
arrival" mtDNA. The result is the "missing" Neanderthal
mtDNA from Europe's present population, even though
interbreeding is now accepted.
JTEM
V <y...@da.com> wrote:
> Early Siberian genetics predates 'out of Africa"
> by 5,000 years. In other words, 5,000 years BEFORE
> homo sapiens existed in Africa or the
> middle east, homo sapiens were populating north
> America, Canada and so forth. See below.
#1. That's not what it means at all.
#2. mtDNA is next to useless for determining such things.
G Horvat
>On Mon, 05 Jul 2010 22:31:48 -0600, RichTravsky
><traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>
>>Intrepid wrote:
>> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2010-06/uoaf-nbc062910.php
>> Fairbanks, Alaska輸 team of researchers, including several at the
>> University of Alaska Fairbanks, have found what looks to be the first
>> well-supported demonstration of an ancient language connection between
>> people in remote Asia and North America.
>>
>> Their work is chronicled in "The Dene-Yeniseian Connection," a publication of
>> the Anthropological Papers of the University of Alaska. In the book, lead
>> author Edward Vajda of Western Washington University details his hypothesis
>> that the Ket language of Central Siberia is related to the North American
>> Na-Dene language family, which includes Tlingit, Gwich'in, Dena'ina, Koyukon,
>> Navajo, Carrier, Hupa, Apache and about 45 other languages.
>
>Absolutely correct. The genetic studies all support this. After
>further research, they will find that American Indians, Canadian
>Indians, Eskimos and all of Polynesia have their genetic heritage in
>Siberia.
I would just like to point out that "is related to" does not
necessarily mean "is ancestral to" or "is derived from". Additional
information is required to determine what the relationship, if any,
means.
The mtDNAs of the majority of Nadene-speaking peoples are derived from
other Native American. The main difference is that the former have a
small amount of recent Asian admixture.
While a fair amount of Native Americans are distant relatives of
Polynesians, Polynesians did not come from Siberia!!! The mtDNA
haplogroup that both have in common (B) likely originated in Island SE
Asia.
>> ...
>>
>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/06/100628170926.htm
>> ...
>> Genetic studies have shed light on the initial lineages that entered North
>> America, distinguishing the earliest Native American groups from those that
>> arrived later. However, a clear picture of the number of initial migratory
>> events and routes has been elusive due to incomplete analysis.
>> ...
>> To resolve these inconsistent lines of evidence, the group sequenced and
>> analyzed 63 C1d mtDNA genomes from throughout the Americas. This
>> high-resolution study not only confirmed that C1d was one of the founding
>> lineages in North America 15,000 to 18,000 years ago, but revealed another
>> critical insight. "These first female American founders carried not one but
>> two different C1d genomes," said Ugo Perego of the Sorenson Molecular
>> Genealogy Foundation and primary author of the study, "thus further
>> increasing the number of recognized maternal lineages from Beringia."
I would point out, here, the there are no known C1d mtDNA sequences in
Asia.
>> These findings raise the number of founding maternal lineages in North
>> America to fifteen. ...
This depends upon how the word "founding" is interpreted. C1 is the
Native American branch of haplogoup C. C1d < C1. What opened the
door to new interpretations was the discovery of a small number of C1a
sequences in NE Asia (Japan and surrounding area). But, again, the
direction of movement should be determined. It is easy to assume that
all movements across the Bering Strait were in the expected direction
but solid genetic evidence to the contrary. See Tamm et al. (2007)
especially Figure 2.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0000829
Gisele
Lee Olsen
> RichTravsky <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> > To resolve these inconsistent lines of evidence,
> > the group sequenced and analyzed 63 C1d mtDNA
> > genomes from throughout the Americas.
>
> mtDNA is the wrong tool for the job. It just
> can't answer the questions they're asking.
Says who?
>
> One blatant example would be Neanderthals. Using
> mtDNA the status quo denounced any chance of
> interbreeding for years,
Liar. Cite any peer-reviewed paper that made
such a claim. Quote it, don't paraphrase it from your
brain dead, scientifically-illiterate mind.
> only to finally conclude
> they were wrong.
More lies.
>Another example is the human-chimp
> divergence, which apparently occurred more than a
> million years after it happened.
No citatation again.
>
> To illustrate the issue I usually point to my brother
> in law. He has three daughters. So, 1000 years from now,
> performing these tests on living descendants of his,
> he would be undetectable.
>
> See, because he only had daughters his y-Chromosome
> was never passed along, and because mtDNA is passed
> from mother to child his mtDNA is never passed along.
>
> So, if, say, his mtDNA lineage is older than mine and
> my sister's, this fact would be lost 1000 years from
> now, as his would no longer be in existence.
ROFL.
Here is a typical quote from an older paper:
from Krings et al. 1997
"These results do not rule out the possibility that Nean-
dertals contributed other genes to modern humans."
And nothing at all about " denounced any chance of
interbreeding for years,.."
>
> Result:
JTEM needs to see a shrink.
<snip rest of silliness>