Climate change enabled OoA

[RichTravsky]

Longish article, follow link for more.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined-humanitys-global-conquest.html

Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
helping hand from climate change. A major study of the last
120,000 years of history reminds us that, while we are
adaptable, our species is ultimately at the mercy of the
climate.

Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago, but
only left the continent about 70,000 years ago. After that
our species rapidly went global, colonising first Europe and
Asia, and then Australasia and the Americas.

But why did early humans linger so long in Africa, and what
spurred them to finally move? Several theories have been
proposed, but according to a large effort to reconstruct
the last 120,000 years of human history – including the
climate we lived in and the vegetation we fed on – the
current population spread around the planet would not be
as it is without key changes in the climate.
...

[JTEM]

Wrong, RichTravsky wrote:

> Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change.

This is deceptive. The driving force
is the ice age.

Present tense. We're still in this ice
age.

The ice age was the engine of human evolution.
One SIDE EFFECT of the ice age is a shifting
climate, a changing environment.

As soon as the ice age ends the only force
changing the environment will be plate tectonics.
The continents will continue moving, as they
always have, and this will effect everything:
Ocean and wind currents, local temperatures
(as a land mass moves towards/away from the
equator), etc.

Our ice age, the one we are now in, is what
is causing any "Climate Change" at the present.
This climate change is a result, a symptom if
you will. It's the ice age at work that's
doing it.

[Lee Olsen]

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Sep 25, 5:57 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wrong, RichTravsky wrote:
> > Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> > helping hand from climate change.
>
> This is deceptive.  The driving force
> is the ice age.

Duh, the ice age was a climate change.

[JTEM]

Yes, I can see why truth &
accuracy would upset you so
much, you being so mentally
ill and refusing your meds..

Sick fuck, Lee Olsen wrote:
[---Insane rant---]

We both know that you suffer from
a severe personality disorder, that
you post under numerous names,
numerous personalities.

This is a fact. We both know it.

Anyhow, even if those I.P. addresses
you keep posting were mine (and they
are not), that couldn't change a thing.
You're still a mentally disturbed troll.
You still suffer from a severe
personality disorder, you still post
under a number of identities, a number
of different personalities.

...every last one of them a goddamn
idiot. I mean, you couldn't even figure
out this much on your own!

[Lee Olsen]

On Sep 26, 9:30 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sick fuck,

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

The sock puppet thinks the ice age wasn't a climate change.

On Sept 25, 5:57 pm, JTEM wrote:
> This is deceptive. The driving force
> is the ice age.

Clean the chocolate out of your brain, it might help you to understand
simple concepts.

[Matt Giwer]

On 9/24/2012 12:42 AM, RichTravsky wrote:
>
> Longish article, follow link for more.
>
> http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined-humanitys-global-conquest.html

New Scientist is a touch fuzzy. Best to stick with Science and Nature
for serious discussion. It is not bad. It simply does not have the
caution and rigor of the others.

Notice the out of Africa map
http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn22277/dn22277-2_834.jpg
is dated not reflecting the modern size of the Red Sea not the size
during the ice age. In fact all of it is modern coast lines instead of
ice age ones. The obvious misrepresentation is the brown patch showing
travel to Australia. That Brown patch was dry land all the way to about
the last 50 miles to the Australian coast. But the words in the brown
patch call it island hopping.

The problem with the modern coast line is showing the route out going
all the way down the Nile and crossing through the Sinai and without
explanation not heading north up the east coast of the Med. The
arrowhead of that path does show the established branching into Europe
and Northern Asia and the Americas. Redraw that path as directly across
the southern end of the Red Sea and not up the Nile and the rest of what
we know makes perfect sense including the re-entry of Caucasians into
northern Africa to become Egyptians.

To repeat, be careful with New Scientist. Read the author's name and
credentials first. This author has no credentials, just a science writer.

> Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change. A major study of the last
> 120,000 years of history reminds us that, while we are
> adaptable, our species is ultimately at the mercy of the
> climate.
>
> Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago, but
> only left the continent about 70,000 years ago. After that
> our species rapidly went global, colonising first Europe and
> Asia, and then Australasia and the Americas.
>
> But why did early humans linger so long in Africa, and what
> spurred them to finally move? Several theories have been
> proposed, but according to a large effort to reconstruct
> the last 120,000 years of human history – including the
> climate we lived in and the vegetation we fed on – the
> current population spread around the planet would not be
> as it is without key changes in the climate.
> ...

Climate change, yes, but not in the modern political sense. There was
an Ice Age. The Red Sea was much smaller and possibly landlocked with a
land bridge connecting what is now east Africa with Arabia which would
not have been called a Peninsula back then. In the worst case people
could have migrated quickly up the west coast of the much small Red Sea
and back down the east coast.

As to why so long, good question however the "so long" is growing by
arbitrarily dating the first HSS earlier and fighting against moving the
exit date back. In the last decade I have watched the date of the
"first" HHS pushed from 120kya to 200 kya without the least supporting
evidence. I have found no papers discussing the push back of the date
which I would expect to be many papers debating the evidence but
nothing. Similarly I have read several papers discussing evidence of
being well into Arabia 80kya or so but all the mentions appear to
begrudge even 65 vice 60kya.

But even in the best case 120 to 80 that is still 40 ky before leaving.
The most obvious answer is population growth was slow and there was
competition from other hominids who, if we are any indication, were
nasty SOBs. Further we know next to nothing about their reproduction
rate or social organization which may have been more survival prone than
ours and only better weapons or something turned the tide.

In addition there was plenty of land in southern Africa to absorb a
growing population. Despite a popular mythology there is really no
evidence of people naturally exploring or heading off into the unknown
for the fun of it. People would not naturally expand until there was
more food for more people at the outer edge of expansion.

Beyond that there is much we do not know about the details of climate
and geography during the ice age which was not a constant but had minor
advanced and retreats. The glaciers would have largely remained but the
conditions for advancing and retreating would have had major impacts on
Africa and Arabia. It is just speculation but perhaps there was an east
African desert blocking northward travel, i.e. the Sahara was much
further south. Only with its retreat did people leave.

--
Anyone who thinks Amadinejad is a new Hitler
thinks Chaplin made a documentary.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4413
http://www.giwersworld.org/israel/is-seg.phtml a14
Fri, Sep 28, 2012 4:25:32 PM

[RichTravsky]

Matt Giwer wrote:
>
> On 9/24/2012 12:42 AM, RichTravsky wrote:
> >
> > Longish article, follow link for more.
> >
> > http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined-humanitys-global-conquest.html
>
> New Scientist is a touch fuzzy. Best to stick with Science and Nature
> for serious discussion. It is not bad. It simply does not have the
> caution and rigor of the others.

This is just a report on the study from PNAS

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/09/10/1209494109.abstract
Late Pleistocene climate change and the global expansion of anatomically
modern humans

Abstract

The extent to which past climate change has dictated the pattern and
timing of the out-of-Africa expansion by anatomically modern humans
is currently unclear [Stewart JR, Stringer CB (2012)
Science 335:1317–1321]. In particular, the incompleteness of the fossil
record makes it difficult to quantify the effect of climate. Here, we
take a different approach to this problem; rather than relying on the
appearance of fossils or archaeological evidence to determine arrival
times in different parts of the world, we use patterns of genetic
variation in modern human populations to determine the plausibility of
past demographic parameters. We develop a spatially explicit model of
the expansion of anatomically modern humans and use climate
reconstructions over the past 120 ky based on the Hadley Centre global
climate model HadCM3 to quantify the possible effects of climate on
human demography. The combinations of demographic parameters compatible
with the current genetic makeup of worldwide populations indicate a
clear effect of climate on past population densities. Our estimates of
this effect, based on population genetics, capture the observed
relationship between current climate and population density in modern
hunter–gatherers worldwide, providing supporting evidence for the
realism of our approach. Furthermore, although we did not use any
archaeological and anthropological data to inform the model, the
arrival times in different continents predicted by our model are also
broadly consistent with the fossil and archaeological records. Our
framework provides the most accurate spatiotemporal reconstruction of
human demographic history available at present and will allow for a
greater integration of genetic and archaeological evidence.

> Notice the out of Africa map
> http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn22277/dn22277-2_834.jpg
> is dated not reflecting the modern size of the Red Sea not the size
> during the ice age. In fact all of it is modern coast lines instead of
> ice age ones. The obvious misrepresentation is the brown patch showing
> travel to Australia. That Brown patch was dry land all the way to about
> the last 50 miles to the Australian coast. But the words in the brown
> patch call it island hopping.

There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.

> The problem with the modern coast line is showing the route out going
> all the way down the Nile and crossing through the Sinai and without
> explanation not heading north up the east coast of the Med. The
> arrowhead of that path does show the established branching into Europe
> and Northern Asia and the Americas. Redraw that path as directly across
> the southern end of the Red Sea and not up the Nile and the rest of what
> we know makes perfect sense including the re-entry of Caucasians into
> northern Africa to become Egyptians.
>
> To repeat, be careful with New Scientist. Read the author's name and
> credentials first. This author has no credentials, just a science writer.

How would you represent, in one map, coastlines from 70kya to 15kya?

[Matt Giwer]

On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...

> There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
> not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.

I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
this URL.

http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml

The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.

--
Jews are so stupid they do not understand keeping
Jerusalem is a precondition.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4407
http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a2
Sat, Sep 29, 2012 10:14:48 PM

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

On Sep 30, 12:16 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

>Sick fuck

Says the moron who thinks one follows a coast to get to an island.
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 03:01:38 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 39
Message-ID:
<aab8f3f1-41f3-486e-91da-9671dfabc...@c17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

JTEM: "Two issues: No Homo reached Flores stepping over Crocs,
they had to do it following the coast...."

Hey moron, if you followed a coast, you would never cross the water.
Geez, you are so dumb.

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

On Sep 30, 11:18 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyhow, even if those I.P. addresses
> you keep posting were mine (and they
> are not),

So what? That has some meaning in the real world where anyone can use
multiple IPs?

> that couldn't change a thing.

Says the compulsive liar...

>
> ...every last one of them a goddamn
> idiot. I mean, you couldn't even figure
> out this much on your own!

Oh really?

Watch JTEM forget that he posted using one of his many sock puppets
(in this case Seth Dwight) , then answers my reply using the usual
pseud JTEM, forgetting to morph back into sock puppet Seth:

Received: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.archaeology
Subject: Look, everyone, look!
From: Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
>I need only crank the organ and the monkey will dance!

Mar 24, 5:23 pm
Lee Olsen wrote:
> > Cranking your organ is the only job you ever had.

JTEM replies with this classic Freudian slip (forgetting to use his
'Seth' handle and using "I" instead):

On Mar 25, 5:03 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you a sick fuck because you sexualize everything
> I say, or do you sexualize everything I say because
> you're a sick fuck?

Everything "I" say? What happened to sock puppet 'Seth' who made the
post?
JTEM has proven himself to be the dumbest sock puppet on the planet.

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Oct 1, 10:14 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anyhow, even if those I.P. addresses
> you keep posting were mine (and they
> are not)

Anyone can use multiple IPs, even sock puppets.

> that couldn't change a thing.
>

> ...every last one of them a goddamn
> idiot. I mean, you couldn't even figure
> out this much on your own!

Oh really?

Watch JTEM forget that he posted using one of his many sock puppets
(in this case Seth Dwight) , then answers my reply using the usual
pseud JTEM, forgetting to morph back into sock puppet Seth:

Received: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:59:41 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups: sci.anthropology.paleo,sci.archaeology
Subject: Look, everyone, look!
From: Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
>I need only crank the organ and the monkey will dance!

Mar 24, 5:23 pm
Lee Olsen wrote:
> > Cranking your organ is the only job you ever had.

JTEM replies with this classic Freudian slip (forgetting to use his
'Seth' handle and using "I" instead):

On Mar 25, 5:03 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you a sick fuck because you sexualize everything
> I say, or do you sexualize everything I say because
> you're a sick fuck?

Everything "I" say? What happened to sock puppet 'Seth' who made the
post?
JTEM has proven himself to be the dumbest sock puppet on the planet.

JTEM 12 Dec 2007 04:18 GMT
"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

Multiple IPs, multiple emails, multiple-personality disorder.
Get some help, sicko.

[JTEM]

Sick fuck, Lee Olsen wrote:
[---Insane rant---]

We both know that you suffer from
a severe personality disorder, that
you post under numerous names,
numerous personalities.

This is a fact. We both know it.

Anyhow, even if those I.P. addresses
you keep posting were mine (and they

are not), that couldn't change a thing.
You're still a mentally disturbed troll.
You still suffer from a severe
personality disorder, you still post
under a number of identities, a number
of different personalities.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 2, 11:11 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>we both know

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined...

"Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
helping hand from climate change. A major study of the last
120,000 years of history reminds us that, while we are
adaptable, our species is ultimately at the mercy of the
climate.

Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago, but
only left the continent about 70,000 years ago. After that
our species rapidly went global, colonising first Europe and
Asia, and then Australasia and the Americas."

Keywords: climate, Africa

[JTEM]

Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> "Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change.

The ice age. It's not "Climate Change," which
is just one of your vague terms, it's the ice age.

When the ice age ends the earth's climate will
be stable for quite a long time. The only changes
will result from, say, continental drift.

All the so-called "Fluctuations" we see are the
result of the ice age.

> Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago,

You're wrong.

Actually, Neanderthals were Homo sapiens and
they evolved long before then.

> but only left the continent about 70,000 years ago.

...and hadn't left yet less than 40 thousand years
ago, according to another cite of yours.

> After that our species rapidly went global,

Our species would include Neanderthals. They
could interbreed with other populations, and that
alone satisfies any useful definition for species.

[Lee Olsen]

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Oct 4, 1:10 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All the so-called "Fluctuations" we see are the
> result of the ice age.

Fluctuations in the climate caused the ice age. Try to get your facts
straight.

[RichTravsky]

Matt Giwer wrote:
>
> On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...
> > There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
> > not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.
>
> I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
> this URL.
>
> http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml
>
> The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
> blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.

Scientific sources please.

> --
> Jews are so stupid they do not understand keeping
> Jerusalem is a precondition.
> -- The Iron Webmaster, 4407
> http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a2
> Sat, Sep 29, 2012 10:14:48 PM

Antisemitic crap not wanted

[JTEM]

RichTravsky <traRvEskyM...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Matt Giwer wrote:
> >         The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
> > blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.
>
> Scientific sources please.

Wait a minute. You want a "Scientific Cite" to prove
that sea level was lower during glacial maximums?

Man, that's dumb...

[Lee Olsen]

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Oct 6, 10:29 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Man, that's dumb...

Sept 23, 10:20 pm
"We weren't us until our ancestors did the nasty with Neanderthals,
according to all the data."

[JTEM]

Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change.

The ice age. It's not "Climate Change," which
is just one of your vague terms, it's the ice age.

When the ice age ends the earth's climate will
be stable for quite a long time. The only changes
will result from, say, continental drift.

All the so-called "Fluctuations" we see are the
result of the ice age.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 8, 12:08 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Our species

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined...

"Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big

helping hand from climate change. A major study of the last
120,000 years of history reminds us that, while we are
adaptable, our species is ultimately at the mercy of the
climate.

Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago, but
only left the continent about 70,000 years ago. After that
our species rapidly went global, colonising first Europe and
Asia, and then Australasia and the Americas."

Keywords: climate change, Africa

Actually, hominids were evolving long before the ice age.

[C. Jackson Rogers]

Jtem is right, you dumb spazz. Climate fluctuations are
the symptom, the cause is the ice are, and you're too
stupid to figure this out even after he told you.

On Oct 5, 4:14 pm, Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 5, 10:00 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:> Further proof

>
>  "JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
>  Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
>  Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
> Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

> In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4v2ed4s
>
> >Like I said, go on:  Jump!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/7vflru7
> Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:36:39 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> JTEM wrote:
> >You must cut open your tongue with a razor.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 11, 4:54 pm, "C. Jackson Rogers" <autographo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Jtem is
mentally ill and needs help. He is cracking up.

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/4v2ed4s
>Like I said, go on: Jump!

http://tinyurl.com/7vflru7
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:36:39 -0800 (PST)
JTEM wrote:
>You must cut open your tongue with a razor.

And now he refuses to give horses a 40 minute break? PETA will hear
about this.

[Matt Giwer]

On 10/6/2012 11:36 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
> Matt Giwer wrote:
>>
>> On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...
>>> There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
>>> not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.
>>
>> I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
>> this URL.
>>
>> http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml
>>
>> The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
>> blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.
>
> Scientific sources please.

I be a scientist. I am the source. It is really quite simple. All one
has to do is look at any of the proposed dates for leaving Africa and
determine the sea level at that time. One discovers the Red Sea was at
best quite small to at worst a land locked salt sea.

One then takes HSS origin in South Africa and expansion north along the
coast and when they come to the south end of the Red Sea they find a
narrow passage of sea or dry land. It is reasonable to assume they
decided not to go that way so as to make modern people who do not take
sea level into account look good?

Even if there was a narrow passage of water that for some reason they
decided not to cross even though Neanderthal got to Europe over water a
100,000 years earlier the size of the Red Sea during the ice age meant
they would have crossed into modern Arabia less than half way to the
Sinai simply by following it down the eastern shore.

It is a trivial effort and requires no explanation at all to observe
the Sinai exit folks did not consider sea level during the ice age but
rather use modern sea level which is too high by about 300 feet.

You can also look at genetic and linguistic diversity spreading out
from where eastern Arabia and India meet. The group that becomes
Indo-European/Aryan heads up the Euphrates. The oldest suggestion is
they came from the region north of the mouth of the Euphrates while the
newest model puts them towards the headwaters.

>> --
>> Jews are so stupid they do not understand keeping
>> Jerusalem is a precondition.
>> -- The Iron Webmaster, 4407
>> http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a2
>> Sat, Sep 29, 2012 10:14:48 PM
>
> Antisemitic crap not wanted

The truth cannot be antisemitic.

--
If Israel and its lobby were not behind the Iraq war
over Iraq's nuclear weapons program how is it they
are not behind an Iran war over a nuclear weaspons
program?
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4417
http://www.haaretz.com What is Israel really like? http://www.jpost.com a7
Sat, Oct 13, 2012 9:47:53 PM

[JTEM]

Matt Giwer <jul...@tampabaynever.rr.com> wrote:

>         One then takes HSS origin in South Africa and expansion north along the
> coast and when they come to the south end of the Red Sea they find a
> narrow passage of sea or dry land. It is reasonable to assume they
> decided not to go that way so as to make modern people who do not take
> sea level into account look good?

Pretty much everything you say is spot on except for
two blaring errors:

#1.
There is absolutely no reason to assume that HSS
originated in South Africa. We find fossils which are
argued to me "Modern" (FSVO) there, but nobody
is looking for them anywhere else.

#2.
They weren't driving dune buggies and they weren't
carrying African Savannas on their backs. If they were
on the coast that requires them to be living off the
coast.

Now, put these together and we have so-called
"Moderns" living in a marine environment, feeding
on the ultimate "Brain Food" in existence...

Seems to me that the "South Africa" origins is nuts,
that it has to be somewhere along the coast, and
then they SPREAD into South Africa... probably not
even literally -- not a physical migration -- but through
interbreeding.

The coastal population bred with inland groups, and
vice verse. From there, natural selection favored the
most advantageous traits (like intelligence) and our
"Modern" form was born...

>         It is a trivial effort and requires no explanation at all to observe
> the Sinai exit folks did not consider sea level during the ice age but
> rather use modern sea level which is too high by about 300 feet.

Though it's true that they rarely account for it, or it's
implications, they are well aware of the sea level
differences and often mention it.

They simply turn right around and ignore it...

Even the Out-Of-Africa ("Replacement") purists
acknowledge all of this. This just refuse to consider
the implications...

"So they were living on the coast. Their environment
was a marine environment... their diet was a marine
diet... OO! They evolved in grasslands, and their
brains grew from eating Savanna animals!"

...you'd have to be retarded.

[RichTravsky]

Matt Giwer wrote:
>
> On 10/6/2012 11:36 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
> > Matt Giwer wrote:
> >>
> >> On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...
> >>> There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
> >>> not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.
> >>
> >> I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
> >> this URL.
> >>
> >> http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml
> >>
> >> The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
> >> blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.
> >
> > Scientific sources please.
>
> I be a scientist. I am the source. It is really quite simple. All one

Then provide peer reviewed journal references.

[Matt Giwer]

On 10/14/2012 10:42 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
> Matt Giwer wrote:
>> On 10/6/2012 11:36 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
>>> Matt Giwer wrote:
>>>> On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...
>>>>> There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
>>>>> not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.
>>>> I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
>>>> this URL.
>>>> http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml
>>>> The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
>>>> blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.
>>> Scientific sources please.
>> I be a scientist. I am the source. It is really quite simple. All one

> Then provide peer reviewed journal references.

Do you mean the journal references as to the depth of the ocean during
the ice age or to standard bottom topography maps? It is the
extraordinary case needing explanation to say why they did not walk
directly from east central Africa to Arabia which was not a peninsula at
the time.

I do not post in these groups to quote the papers. There is no point to
the newsgroup if that is all that is done. The point of these groups is
to discuss the known facts. If the papers do not make sense one says so
while giving the reasons. I gave my reasons. There was nothing to
prevent going directly to Asia from central Africa. Therefore it is not
reasonable to say they followed a route that only makes sense with post
ice age sea levels.

--
Like the Iraq war over its nuclear weapons program
Israel and Jews are not behind the Iran war either.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 4418
http://www.giwersworld.org/environment/aehb.phtml a2
Sun, Oct 14, 2012 2:04:36 AM

[Matt Giwer]

On 10/14/2012 10:50 PM, The Other Guy wrote:

> On Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:42:14 -0600, RichTravsky
> <traRvE...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> I be a scientist. I am the source. It is really quite simple. All one
>>
>> Then provide peer reviewed journal references.
>

> PLEASE don't feed the ugly, smelly, ignorant, racist troll!!

Nor feed anti-scientific nerf brains such as yourself.

[JTEM]

Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change.

The ice age. It's not "Climate Change," which
is just one of your vague terms, it's the ice age.

When the ice age ends the earth's climate will
be stable for quite a long time. The only changes
will result from, say, continental drift.

All the so-called "Fluctuations" we see are the
result of the ice age.

> Homo sapiens evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago,

> You're wrong.

Actually, Neanderthals were Homo sapiens and
they evolved long before then.

> but only left the continent about 70,000 years ago.

...and hadn't left yet less than 40 thousand years
ago, according to another cite of yours.

> After that our species rapidly went global,

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 14, 9:51 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> > helping hand from climate change.
>
> The ice age.  It's not "Climate Change," which
> is just one of your vague terms, it's the ice age.

Do you think there was ice on the savannas
in Africa?

[JTEM]

Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Do you think there was ice on the savannas
> in Africa?

I do believe that the ice age impacted on the
Savanna, yes. It changed everything -- weather
patterns, rainfall, etc.

Mostly I see the ice age as opening up (and
later closing) vast coastal areas. This alternately
provided feeding grounds and connected
continents, and closed off connections, isolating
populations as it drove coastal groups inland.

Isolation, interbreeding... isolation, interbreeding...

On & on & on since at least Homo habilis and
probably before (going by the Y-Chromosome
data between humans & chimps), bother inter
and intra continental.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 15, 3:28 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>  Lee Olsen <paleoc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  Do you think there was ice on the savannas
> > in Africa?
>
> I do believe that the ice age impacted on the
> Savanna, yes.  It changed everything -- weather
> patterns, rainfall, etc.

But still, there were rather substantial changes happening in the
climate before the ice age started. It was the change in climate that
started the process of extensive glaciation at the higher elevations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.svg&page=1

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 16, 9:20 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
Message-ID:
<aab8f3f1-41f3-486e-91da-9671dfabc...@c17g2000prm.googlegroups.com>

JTEM: "Two issues: No Homo reached Flores stepping over Crocs,
they had to do it following the coast...."

Hey moron, if you followed a coast, you would never cross the water.
Geez, you are so dumb.

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined...

"Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big

helping hand from climate change. A major study of the last
120,000 years of history reminds us that, while we are
adaptable, our species is ultimately at the mercy of the
climate.

Sorry, but you can't read. The article says "climate change"

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

[JTEM]

Wrong, RichTravsky wrote:
> Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big
> helping hand from climate change.

This is deceptive. The driving force
is the ice age.

Present tense. We're still in this ice
age.

The ice age was the engine of human evolution.
One SIDE EFFECT of the ice age is a shifting
climate, a changing environment.

As soon as the ice age ends the only force
changing the environment will be plate tectonics.
The continents will continue moving, as they
always have, and this will effect everything:
Ocean and wind currents, local temperatures
(as a land mass moves towards/away from the
equator), etc.

Our ice age, the one we are now in, is what
is causing any "Climate Change" at the present.
This climate change is a result, a symptom if
you will. It's the ice age at work that's
doing it.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 18, 7:36 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The ice age was the engine of human evolution.

You need to tune up your reading comp skills, the article clearly
states:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22277-climate-change-determined...

"Humans may have conquered the world, but not without a big

[JTEM]

Sick fuck, Lee Olsen wrote:
[---Insane rant---]

We both know that you suffer from
a severe personality disorder, that
you post under numerous names,
numerous personalities.

This is a fact. We both know it.

Anyhow, even if those I.P. addresses
you keep posting were mine (and they
are not), that couldn't change a thing.
You're still a mentally disturbed troll.
You still suffer from a severe
personality disorder, you still post
under a number of identities, a number
of different personalities.

...every last one of them a goddamn
idiot. I mean, you couldn't even figure
out this much on your own!

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 20, 10:58 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sick fuck

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

> We both know that

http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy
"As many of you may already be aware, I am an
accomplished medium who has often channeled
none other than Nostradamus himself."

[RichTravsky]

Matt Giwer wrote:
>
> On 10/14/2012 10:42 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
> > Matt Giwer wrote:
> >> On 10/6/2012 11:36 PM, RichTravsky wrote:
> >>> Matt Giwer wrote:
> >>>> On 9/28/2012 11:33 PM, RichTravsky wrote:...
> >>>>> There is nothing really wrong with their map. The actual coastallines are
> >>>>> not necessary given the broad sale of this map and long timeline.
> >>>> I have prepared a series of comparative incorrect and correct maps at
> >>>> this URL.
> >>>> http://www.giwersworld.org/science/MIGRATION/hss-migration.phtml
> >>>> The additional land areas were created by simply coloring the light
> >>>> blue 100 meter depth contours green to show they are land not water.
> >>> Scientific sources please.
> >> I be a scientist. I am the source. It is really quite simple. All one
>
> > Then provide peer reviewed journal references.
>
> Do you mean the journal references as to the depth of the ocean during
> the ice age or to standard bottom topography maps? It is the
> extraordinary case needing explanation to say why they did not walk
> directly from east central Africa to Arabia which was not a peninsula at
> the time.

What is needed is specifics as to WHEN...

> I do not post in these groups to quote the papers. There is no point to
> the newsgroup if that is all that is done. The point of these groups is

There is no point if you don't because that's where the evidence is.

[Lee Olsen]

"JTEM" <j_deerfi...@hotmail.com>
Jack Teehan <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight <deerfieldproducti...@gmail.com>
Seth Dwight: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153
In His Glory: NNTP-Posting-Host: 71.232.83.153

On Oct 21, 10:13 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This completely
proves
http://tinyurl.com/2bclbfy

JTEM 12 Dec 2007 04:18 GMT
"I've also posted many, many, many other "fake" articles in
other groups, which few people didn't recognize as parody.
Yes, even when posted under a different name people had
no problems seeing that they were parodies."

[JTEM]

Check this out. "Lee" (etc) is claiming that
a human can out-run a horse in the desert.
His cite? A race between a human and a
horse where the horse was FORCED to take
not one but TWO 40-minute breaks.

Those were the rules. The horse was
required to take TWO 40-minute breaks.

That is, ACCORDING TO HIS OWN CITE

Here's a direct link to Lloyd's/Lee's (etc)
post:

http://tinyurl.com/bnkbkpo

Yeah, that's how stupid he is, how fucked
up he is... he has ZERO reading comprehension.

None.

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 21, 10:33 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Check this out
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v432/n7015/abs/nature03052.html
Endurance running and the evolution of Homo
Dennis M. Bramble
& Daniel E. Lieberman

"Striding bipedalism is a key derived behaviour of hominids that
possibly originated soon after the divergence of the chimpanzee and
human lineages. Although bipedal gaits include walking and running,
running is generally considered to have played no major role in human
evolution because humans, like apes, are poor sprinters compared to
most quadrupeds. Here we assess how well humans perform at sustained
long-distance running, and review the physiological and anatomical
bases of endurance running capabilities in humans and other mammals.
Judged by several criteria, humans perform remarkably well at
endurance running, thanks to a diverse array of features, many of
which leave traces in the skeleton. The fossil evidence of these
features suggests that endurance running is a derived capability of
the genus Homo, originating about 2 million years ago, and may have
been instrumental in the evolution of the human body form."

[JTEM]

[Lee Olsen]

On Oct 21, 10:38 pm, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Check this out

On Apr 26, 12:11 am, JTEM <jte...@gmail.com> wrote:
<Re: mtDNA is useless>

[JTEM]

Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have never followed these "discussions". in a nutshell, what thesis
> are you defending, what is JTEM defending?

you're defending the notion that DNA "Evidence" is always
right -- without ever once bothering to separate "Evidence"
from opinion -- while I'm pointing out the facts.

DNA, even mtDNA, is subject to selection. Which means
the advantageous line rises to dominance while the lines
at a disadvantage go extinct.

Well, morons, psychopaths and mental defectives (seek
the nearest mirror for further clarification) believe that if
a dominate line in, say, Europe appears ("Appears")
to be of a relatively young age, the only explanation is that a
population with this line sprung into existence and then
moved -- spreading the line.

This is utter rubbish.

The easiest way to move DNA from the southern most
tip of Africa to Eurasia and beyond is through sex. Populations
interbreed with neighboring populations -- people/villages they
come into contact with.

That's it. "Natural Selection" takes over from there. The
best lines -- the most advantageous lines -- will win out
over time. All the evidence is 100% consistent with this
model, and INCONSISTENT with the Out of Africa/Replacement
model.

There's the Neanderthal and Denisovan evidence, for example.
It proves rather conclusively that this interbreeding took place.

Mungo Man, a 40 thousand year old "Modern" human who
is not genetically related to any living population (according
to the DNA centric idiocy) is another example.

Mungo Man is the best evidence for "Regional Continuity"
yet found. That's a variation on "Multi Regionalism."

Anyhow, looking only at the archaeology and especially
the bones, there's every reason to think that the population
which Mungo Man belonged to is a direct ancestor to
today's modern Aborigines. HE EVEN DATES TO TENS
OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER THE IMAGINARY
MIGRATION OUT OF AFRICA. But going by mtDNA, he's
about as distant from any "Modern" as Neanderthals.

Well, maybe a little closer than that, but you get the
picture.

This is all easily explained if you merely suggest that
evolution is real, that it works and that over time the
mtDNA lines we now find in the Aborigine population
were introduced, and through selection they slowly
rose to dominance.

Your position, on the other hand, is that Mungo Man
was "Replaced" by a wave of "Moderns" about 20
thousand years or more before he was ever born.

[Yusuf B Gursey]

I have not posted on the subject. now I know the respective positions.