Re: Lucy FACTOID 101

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-F5C1AD...@news.eternal-september.org>,
David Fritzinger <dfri...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:

> In article
> <Jason-22011...@67-150-174-143.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > In article <Xns9FE14CCD8E1A6...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> >
> > > DanielSan <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote in
> > > news:jfde1j$hq0$4...@dont-email.me:
> > >
> > > > On 1/20/2012 7:47 PM, Flint wrote:
> > > >> On 1/19/2012 10:23 PM, DanielSan wrote:
> > > >>> On 1/19/2012 7:20 PM, Flint wrote:
> > > >>>> On 1/18/2012 4:35 PM, DanielSan wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> There's a difference. Obama's policies did not add to the deficit.
> > > >>>>> Bush's did.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> In fact, Obama's policies are REDUCING the deficit.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ...at the expense of weakening the dollar
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The inflation rate is actually normal and has been since the
> > > >>> beginning of 2011. Before then, we had below average inflation rate
> > > >>> and, in 2009, we actually had DEFLATION.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> through Bernanke's QE
> > > >>>> measures, driving prices of goods/services up, killing jobs with a
> > > >>>> crap energy policy, and bankrupting the country by running up the
> > > >>>> national debt, raisding the debt limit, and on, and on, and on...
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Well, I was going to dispute each an every one of these assertions,
> > > >>> but I decided, hey, why not let you provide evidence for each of
> > > >>> these assertions? You are making the claims. Back it up.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> I don't have to back up what is documented history for a google
> > > >> challenged individual who apparently has been off planet for some
> > > >> time, and simply out of touch with/behind the times.
> > > >
> > > > Are you telling me that I have to back up YOUR claims?
> > >
> > >
> > > That is a common tactic with conservatives. They
> > > post all kinds of stupid claims and then tell you to
> > > both "look it yourself" or "prove I am wrong".
> >
> > If someone expects me to conduct several hours of research, I hope he or
> > she does not hold their breath waiting for it to happen.
>
> IOW, you know you are wrong, and cannot find evidence to support your
> opinions. Thank you for the admission. That is one of the few honest
> things you have said here.

No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research on subjects
that I already know about. For example, I know how the Grand Canyon was
formed. Why would I waste time researching that subject?

[Ken]

On Jan 22, 3:46 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote this shit:

> No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research on subjects
> that I already know about. For example, I know how the Grand Canyon was

> formed. Why would I waste time researching that subject?- Hide quoted text -


Sure you do.... goditit during a slow week, right?

Time too valuable?
Ha Ha Ha
You spend hours endlessly spewing worthless Fundy BS in Usenet

[DanielSan]

Obviously not. Because you think that Noah's flood laid down the
fossils which took millions of years.

> For example, I know how the Grand Canyon was
> formed.

No, you don't.

> Why would I waste time researching that subject?

Education. Oh, but wait. Education is a waste of your time, isn't it?

[RichTravsky]

Jason wrote:

> David Fritzinger <dfri...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > In article <Xns9FE14CCD8E1A6...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> > > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > > > DanielSan <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote in

So do we. Known geologic processes. No worldwide flood.

[Jason]

In article <4F1CCCCE...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky

Noah's flood and the river at the bottom of the canyon played a role.

[Devils Advocaat]

On Jan 23, 7:16 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <4F1CCCCE.A3C37...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <traRvE...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> > Jason wrote:

> > > David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > > > In article <Xns9FE14CCD8E1A6nomailcomcast...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> > > > > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > > DanielSan <danielsan1...@gmail.com> wrote in

There is absolutely no evidence to support this worldwide flood story.

[Andrew]

"Devils Advocaat" wrote in message news:aa57d406-8883-439e...@k28g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
(Jason) wrote:
RichTravsky wrote:
> > Jason wrote:
> > > David Fritzinger wrote:
> > > > Ja...@nospam.com wrote:
> > > > > Mitchell Holman wrote:
> > > > > > DanielSan wrote:
> > > > > > > Flint wrote:
> > > > > > >> DanielSan wrote:

-
- There is absolutely no evidence to support this worldwide flood story.

Then you refuse the accepted definition of the word - evidence.

[DanielSan]

evidence (ev-ih-dens) n. data on which to establish truth or falsehood;
that which is plain or clear to the sight or understanding

Please provide objective (not subject to personal feelings, prejudices,
biases; based in fact) evidence for the worldwide flood. Because, well,
no one can find any.

[David Fritzinger]

In article
<Jason-22011...@67-150-169-107.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

You don't do the research because you are afraid of what you will find.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-22011...@66-53-215-109.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

How did corals get from the bottom to the top? Did
they grow legs and walk? Did they grow fins and swim?

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-4CFBF0...@news.eternal-september.org>,

When I was taking the college biology class and other classes--I learned
lots of that type of information. I also learned lots of that info. when I
subscribed to National Geographic for about 5 years.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE34A4B2AB7B...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

The entire world was covered with water after the flood came to an end.
That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon walls.

[DanielSan]

No evidence of that.

> That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon walls.

Millions of years worth? In the exact right order from oldest to newest?

[David Fritzinger]

In article <Jason-23011...@66-53-211-5.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

No, Jason, it wasn't, because there never was a worldwide flood. I am
borrowing the following from a post in talk.origins, as it provides yet
more evidence that your flood never occurred. The post post follows:

"Randy Crum had a TO post of the month in 2011 on what the Flood
predicts
about fossils compared to what is actually observed:

"Hardly.

"Here's what the fossil record should look like if Biblical creationism
were
true.


1.. In the very lowest strata we should see no fossils at all. This is
because, according to the Bible, all life originally existed in the
Garden
of Eden and nothing died there.


2.. In the next levels of strata, we should see a fairly constant rate
of
fossils or a gradually growing rate of fossils. This would reflect the
time
after the Fall as life progressed all over the Earth. These strata
should
have fossils of all types of organisms, both bacteria and larger more
complex organisms because all of them coexisted. We should see more
mobile
species such as horses at the bottom of the fossil record throughout
most of
the world because those species would be able to migrate to places far
away
from the Garden of Eden more quickly than less mobile species. In fact
we
should be able to use this layer of strata to help discover the location
of
the Garden of Eden. The closer that any particular rocks are to the
original
location of the Garden of Eden, the earlier fossils should appear. (It
should take species longer to get far away from the Garden and die than
it
should be for species to die close to the Garden.)


3.. At some point as we move up through the strata we should see a
sudden
massive intrusion of fossils. This would represent the 40 days and 40
nights
of the flood. This layer should also include archaeological artifacts
such
as tools because humans existed and would not have escaped with their
tools.
This should be present because of the large number of organisms (nearly
every living creature on Earth) that died suddenly under conditions
ideal
for fossilization. (A flood is the very best environment for preserving
fossils.) We should be able to show that all of these fossils are in the
same strata all over the world.


4.. Immediately above this sudden intrusion of fossils, we should see
a
thin layer of marine fossils. This would represent the year when,
according
to the Bible, the Earth was covered with water. This layer of fossils
should
be present everywhere since the flood was global in nature.


5.. As we move up beyond this point in the strata, we should see a
fossil
gap; the size of the gap should vary depending on the geographical
distance
that a particular rock formation is from Mount Ararat - the final
resting
place of the Ark according to the Bible. As was the case immediately
after
the Fall, it would take some time for slow moving organisms to get very
far
away from where the Ark came to rest.


6.. This pattern should exist all over the World.

"In fact, of course, it exists nowhere on Earth.

"Creationism --> totally falsified by the fossil record."

(I have added the quotation marks but nothing else, and removed the post
he
was replying to.)

So while it isn't about detailed crop records or dynasties, your Flood
proponent would need to explain the contradictions.

He would also have to explain why, if all human life was wiped out
except
for the ark, civilizations such as the Egyptian pyramid builders,
Stonehenge, and Skara Brae, to name only a few, all show evidence of
continuous occupation and use by the same culture during the period the
Flood was supposed to take place (c. 2000-2500BC). And none of them
show
signs of deposits such as one might see from a global flood.

Grain storage records might be cuneiform from Sumerian civilization.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

[David Fritzinger]

In article <Jason-23011...@66-53-211-5.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Stop making excuses. If you believe something well enough to talk about
it here, support it. Otherwise we will know you are lying.

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-9395D2...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Interesting points. Thanks

[David Fritzinger]

> > 5.Wi. As we move up beyond this point in the strata, we should see a

Will you bother to address any of them?

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-2301121510220001@66-53-211-
5.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

So how did the corals move up the side of the canyon?

> That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon walls.

The "top of the canyon walls" would have been
under six miles of water. And fresh water at that,
which is lethal to corals. So how did they not only
live but migrate?

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-E191F0...@news.eternal-september.org>,

You made use of one of your lie cards. Do you keep them next to your race cards.

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-054660...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Those are the opinion of the author. Obviously, the staff members that
have Ph.D. degrees employed by ICR and Answers in Genesis have a different
point of view. The website for Answers in Genesis is:
www.answersmagazine. com

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE3D342025BA...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

I don't know.

[Devils Advocaat]

On Jan 23, 10:01 am, "Andrew" <andrew.321re...@usa.net> wrote:
> "Devils Advocaat" wrote in messagenews:aa57d406-8883-439e...@k28g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...

No I don't.

[David Fritzinger]

In article
<Jason-23011...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Where is the lie, Jason? That I said you don't support what you assert
here? No lie there. That you are a racist? No lie there. That you think
belief trumps evidence? No lie there. Where is the lie?

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-23011...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

So we can add the Coral Question to the Cuba
Question to the Koala Question among the Noah
Flood issues you simply cannot answer.

Has it ever occured to you that the reason
you cannot explain any questions about Ye Floode
is because it didn't happen?

[David Fritzinger]

In article
<Jason-23011...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

No, Jason. Those are descriptions of the facts. The facts say the
worldwide flood never happened. The above shows that, and they are not
opinions. Your creationist sites are lying to you.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-23011...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

From your own cite:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark


1) "The animals simply arrived at the Ark as if called
by a "homing instinct" (a behavior implanted in the
animals by their Creator) and marched up the ramp,
all by themselves. Though this was probably a
supernatural event (one that cannot be explained by
our understanding of nature)"



Got that? Your own cite has no explanation
for how all the worlds animals (including those
that cannot even walk, like sloths) got to the
ark. It is just "supernatural" how it happened.



2) "In the book Noah痴 Ark: A Feasibility Study,
creationist researcher John Woodmorappe suggests
that, at most, 16,000 animals were all that were
needed to preserve the created kinds that God
brought into the Ark."

Fact check

Known land animal species =
Insects: 1-30 million+ species
Arachnids: 75,500 species
Reptiles: 7,984 species
Amphibians: 5,400 species
Birds: 9,000-10,000 species
Mammals: 4,475-5,000 species
http://tinyurl.com/3xd4xd3


And that doesn't include all the dinosaurs
that your cite said were on the ark.






3) "All land animals and people not on board the Ark
were destroyed in the floodwaters傭illions of animals
were preserved in the great fossil record we see today."

So, when the ark landed there would no food for
tens of thousands of different carnivores to eat,
a condition that would have lasted for decades while
the population of herbavores built up. How did they
eat?




4) "Even what is now Mt. Everest was once covered with
water and uplifted afterward.13 If we even out the
ocean basins and flatten out the mountains, there is
enough water to cover the entire earth by about 1.7
miles (2.7 km). Also important to note is that, with
the leveling out of the oceans and mountains, the Ark
would not have been riding at the height of the current
Mt."


So, if Everest is growing at a rate of 2 inches
per year that means it's "Floode" level height of
1 mile high was literally millions of years ago, not
in the late Bronze age.



5) "Evidence of Noah痴 Flood can be seen all over the earth,
from seabeds to mountaintops. The earth痴 crust has massive
amounts of layered sedimentary rock, sometimes miles deep!
These layers of sand, soil, and material洋ostly laid down
by water謡ere once soft like mud, but they are now hard
stone."


Fact check: The oldest place on earth are
igneous rock beds in Canada that are 4 Billion
years old. They are not covered by any Bronze
age sedimentary layers and never have been.
http://tinyurl.com/75pk96c

[Jason]

In article <dfritzin-0AF055...@news.eternal-september.org>,

You will run out of lie cards and race cards if you keep making use of them.

[Free Lunch]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:37:21 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

But you appear to believe your absurd story is more credible than the
scientific explanation, why?

[Free Lunch]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2012 19:31:15 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

You have demonstrated that you are a totally untrustworthy liar. Nothing
you say can be trusted unless we know independently that you happened
not to lie. Do you lie to your wife all the time?

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:50:01 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

You are a liar. The GOP has made certain that racists are welcome. Those
are facts.

[David Fritzinger]

In article
<Jason-24011...@67-150-171-40.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Jason, you don't even know what you are talking about. I'm not using any
race card. That is the Republicans. And, that is you.

[Jason]

In article <g4guh7110219bl0al...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

I believe our story and don't believe it is an absurd story.

[Jason]

In article <l6guh7d3pgfgmputv...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

There you go again--you used another lie card.

[Jason]

In article <a8guh79kaucsp1o16...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

You just used another lie card. Call the print shop and order them to
print a new batch of race cards and lie cards.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:02:51 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

You don't understand how absurd it is because you have assiduously told
yourself lies about science. The evidence is clear that there was no
such flood. Not one single scientist involved in science claims that
there was such a flood. The only people who claim to be scientists who
are trying to con people into believing that this flood happened are
religious zealots who are doing absolutely no science at all.

It is a totally absurd story and only ignorant fools believe it really
happened. The people who sell books about the Flood don't really believe
in it, they just believe in making money from credulous believers.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:05:26 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

alt.talk.creationism:

>In article <a8guh79kaucsp1o16...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
><lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:50:01 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> alt.talk.creationism:

...

>> >You will run out of lie cards and race cards if you keep making use of them.
>> >
>> You are a liar. The GOP has made certain that racists are welcome. Those
>> are facts.
>
>You just used another lie card. Call the print shop and order them to
>print a new batch of race cards and lie cards.

If you don't want to be called a liar, stop repeated falsehoods even
after you have been corrected. You have demonstrated to us that you are
profoundly untrustworthy, that you will repeat any right-wing falsehood
that comes past you and that you will reject all facts that don't fit
your prejudices.

Don't try to make excuses for your behavior, it is immoral, it is
disgusting. Don't try to claim that somehow we should stop pointing out
your lies when you have told enough of them. We have no duty to lower
our standards to the immoral lack you have. We are free to speak out
against your dishonesty and your falsehoods. Many of us will. The rest
of us will quit reading your lies in disgust. No one who disagrees with
you is persuaded that you are honest. Some believe that you are so
self-deluded that you will never stop lying to us, but that is your
problem, not mine.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:03:52 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

You don't even understand what the "card" idea means.

I have pointed out that you are a liar because you have chosen to repeat
falsehoods again and again, even after you have been corrected. You are
a liar. No one can trust you.

[Jason]

In article <ocjuh7h3oop6r16pb...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

People like Ken Ham do believe that Noah's Flood happened. I believe that
he has a Ph.D. degree. He has an excellent museum.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 16:49:13 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

Ken Ham is a fraud who relies on the credulity of religious people. He
does no science at all. He hates science. He reviles science. He lies
about science. He is truly an immoral liar that no honest Christian
would ever rely on.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-24011...@67-150-174-43.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

How does he explain how tree sloths and ground
slugs and koala bears migrated to the middle east?

[Tom McDonald]

On 1/24/2012 6:49 PM, Jason wrote:

<snip>

> People like Ken Ham do believe that Noah's Flood happened. I believe that
> he has a Ph.D. degree. He has an excellent museum.
>
>

"Ken’s bachelor’s degree in applied science (with an emphasis on
environmental biology) was awarded by the Queensland Institute of
Technology in Australia. He also holds a diploma of education from the
University of Queensland."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Ham

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diploma_of_Education

"In recognition of the contribution Ken has made to the church in the
USA and internationally, Ken has been awarded three honorary doctorates:
a Doctor of Divinity (1997) from Temple Baptist College in Cincinnati,
Ohio, a Doctor of Literature (2004) from Liberty University in
Lynchburg, Virginia, and a Doctor of Letters (2010) from Tennessee
Temple University."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/outreach/speakers/ken-ham/bio/

So Ken Ham does not have an earned Ph.D. It isn't even clear that he has
an earned Masters degree. He has a Diploma of Education, which is a one-
or two-year post-bachelor's diploma that teaches those with bachelor's
degrees to become teachers.

It is possible that you and I have higher-level earned degrees than Ken Ham.

[Free Lunch]

On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 19:39:15 -0600, Tom McDonald
<tmcdon...@charter.net> wrote in alt.talk.creationism:

Jason's education is just as wasted as Ken Ham's. Neither one has any
interest in learning.

[Mitchell Holman]

Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in
news:Xns9FE453153604C...@216.196.121.131:

No answer from Jason.

Too bad, this is his own posted site
that seems to be proving him wrong.

[Jason]

In article <63JTq.3971$%x7....@newsfe10.iad>, Tom McDonald

He knows more about biology since he majored in applied science with an
emphasis on environmental biology. My degrees were in psychology and
counseling. He publishes a magazine and did not use Ph.D. after his name.
The reason for that is probably because they were honorary doctorates. I
have one copy of his magazine. I don't subscribe to it. Someone at my
church gave it to me. I have only taken one college course in biology
(biology 101). Our professor was an atheist but he treated Christians with
respect.

[Jason]

In article <m3ouh7pdbsknkk13e...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

That is not true. I subscribed to the National Geographic for about 5
years and read every issue from cover to cover. I done it since I enjoy
learning new information.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE4C4F5F35C6...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

I don't know. You may want to visit his website:

The title of his magazine is Answers in Genesis

the website is: www.answersmagazine.com

[Jason]

In article <69muh75fgo0q5v9ug...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

I respect Ken Ham. He has an excellent creation museum. It's located near
Cincinnati, Ohio.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE4D410B2266...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

You already know that I believe Noah's flood did happen.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-25011...@67-150-174-130.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

So explain the problems with claims your
own website is posting.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-25011...@67-150-174-130.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

I have already been to your website and posted
the problems with it. For instance, it says the ark
only held 16,000 animals. That is to say, 8000 species.
Yet we know there are over a million separate land
species on Earth. And that doesn't include all the
Dinosaurs your site says were saved.

So, how did all those millions of species that
didn't get saved get saved?

[Devils Advocaat]

On Jan 25, 8:58 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <Xns9FE4D410B2266nomailcomcast...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote in
> >news:Xns9FE453153604C...@216.196.121.131:
>
> > > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
> > >news:Jason-23011...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:
>
> > >> In article

> > >> <dfritzin-054660.18494023012...@news.eternal-september.org>, David

> > >> Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> Those are the opinion of the author. Obviously, the staff members that
> > >> have Ph.D. degrees employed by ICR and Answers in Genesis have a
> > >> different point of view.
>
> > >     From your own cite:
>
> > >http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark
>
> > > 1) "The animals simply arrived at the Ark as if called
> > > by a "homing instinct" (a behavior implanted in the
> > > animals by their Creator) and marched up the ramp,
> > > all by themselves. Though this was probably a
> > > supernatural event (one that cannot be explained by
> > > our understanding of nature)"
>
> > >     Got that? Your own cite has no explanation
> > > for how all the worlds animals (including those
> > > that cannot even walk, like sloths) got to the
> > > ark. It is just "supernatural" how it happened.
>

> > > 2) "In the book Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study,

> > > creationist researcher John Woodmorappe suggests
> > > that, at most, 16,000 animals were all that were
> > > needed to preserve the created kinds that God
> > > brought into the Ark."
>
> > >    Fact check
>
> > > Known land animal species =
> > > Insects: 1-30 million+ species
> > > Arachnids: 75,500 species
> > > Reptiles: 7,984 species
> > > Amphibians: 5,400 species
> > > Birds: 9,000-10,000 species
> > > Mammals: 4,475-5,000 species
> > >http://tinyurl.com/3xd4xd3
>
> > >  And that doesn't include all the dinosaurs
> > > that your cite said were on the ark.
>
> > > 3) "All land animals and people not on board the Ark

> > > were destroyed in the floodwaters—billions of animals

> > > were preserved in the great fossil record we see today."
>
> > >    So, when the ark landed there would no food for
> > > tens of thousands of different carnivores to eat,
> > > a condition that would have lasted for decades while
> > > the population of herbavores built up. How did they
> > > eat?
>
> > > 4) "Even what is now Mt. Everest was once covered with
> > > water and uplifted afterward.13 If we even out the
> > > ocean basins and flatten out the mountains, there is
> > > enough water to cover the entire earth by about 1.7
> > > miles (2.7 km). Also important to note is that, with
> > > the leveling out of the oceans and mountains, the Ark
> > > would not have been riding at the height of the current
> > > Mt."
>
> > >     So, if Everest is growing at a rate of 2 inches
> > > per year that means it's "Floode" level height of
> > > 1 mile high was literally millions of years ago, not
> > > in the late Bronze age.
>

> > > 5) "Evidence of Noah’s Flood can be seen all over the earth,
> > > from seabeds to mountaintops. The earth’s crust has massive

> > > amounts of layered sedimentary rock, sometimes miles deep!

> > > These layers of sand, soil, and material—mostly laid down
> > > by water—were once soft like mud, but they are now hard

> > > stone."
>
> > >     Fact check: The oldest place on earth are
> > > igneous rock beds in Canada that are 4 Billion
> > > years old. They are not covered by any Bronze
> > > age sedimentary layers and never have been.
> > >http://tinyurl.com/75pk96c
>
> >     No answer from Jason.
>
> >     Too bad, this is his own posted site
> > that seems to be proving him wrong.
>
> You already know that I believe Noah's flood did happen.

Everyone who reads your posts also knows you only believe whatever
fits your world view.

Which means, in a nutshell, you won't accept anything that shows your
beliefs to be wrong.

[David Fritzinger]

In article
<Jason-24011...@67-150-174-43.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> In article <l6guh7d3pgfgmputv...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
> <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>

[snip]

> > >You made use of one of your lie cards. Do you keep them next to your
> race cards.
> > >
> > You have demonstrated that you are a totally untrustworthy liar. Nothing
> > you say can be trusted unless we know independently that you happened
> > not to lie. Do you lie to your wife all the time?
>
> There you go again--you used another lie card.

Isn't it funny that Jason tries to use the term "race card" when he
doesn't have any idea of what it is? Then, to make himself look even
worse, he comes up with another ridiculous term, "lie card".

[tirebiter]

On Jan 24, 7:05 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <a8guh79kaucsp1o16q7rm3kctkm1st7...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
> > On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 13:50:01 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
> > alt.talk.creationism:
>

> > >In article <dfritzin-0AF055.06463224012...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > >David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> In article
> > >> <Jason-2301121931150...@66-53-209-131.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,
> > >>  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > >> > In article <dfritzin-E191F0.18335823012...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > >> > David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > In article <Jason-2301121509070...@66-53-211-5.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

> > >> > >  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > >> > > > In article
>

> <dfritzin-4CFBF0.07373423012...@news.eternal-september.org>,> >> > > > David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > In article
> > >> > > > > <Jason-2201121546020...@67-150-169-107.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

> > >> > > > >  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > In article

> > >> > > > > > <dfritzin-F5C1AD.06550322012...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > >> > > > > > David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > In article
> > >> > > > > > > <Jason-2201120232340...@67-150-174-143.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com>,

> > >> > > > > > >  Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > In article
>

> <Xns9FE14CCD8E1A6nomailcomcast...@216.196.121.131>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> > > > > > > > Mitchell
> > >> > > > > > > > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > DanielSan <danielsan1...@gmail.com> wrote in

Jason, you are the proven liar, racist and bigot, on almost every one
of your posts. Why do you do that?

Tell us again which German cities the U.S. massacred in World War One?

What are the names of mountains formed from *SEDIMENT*?

Why aren't homeless people as good as "regular people" and don't
deserve the same Constitutional rights?

What a horrible person you are.

---
a.a. #2273

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:55:59 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

You are a fool. Ken Ham is a fraud. His creation museum is a joke. It is
full of bullshit and lies. No Christian should ever support his
fraudulent enterprise. He doesn't give a damn about creation, he cares
about money. Like Rupert Murdoch, it appears that he moved to the United
States from Australia because there was a bigger market for the complete
nonsense that he was selling.

Why am I not surprised that you have been hoodwinked by Mr. Ham. You
believe any lies that make you feel good.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:53:25 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

>In article <Xns9FE4C4F5F35C6...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
>Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>

...

>>
>> How does he explain how tree sloths and ground
>> slugs and koala bears migrated to the middle east?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I don't know. You may want to visit his website:
>
>The title of his magazine is Answers in Genesis
>
>the website is: www.answersmagazine.com
>

Why do you recommend someone who has a history of deceiving believers? I
guess you aren't a real believer either.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:40:18 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

Ken Ham knows how to lie. That is the extent of his knowledge. What he
claims and what you are fool enough to be misled by him are of no value
to anyone.

>My degrees were in psychology and
>counseling. He publishes a magazine and did not use Ph.D. after his name.

That is because he does not have one.

>The reason for that is probably because they were honorary doctorates. I
>have one copy of his magazine. I don't subscribe to it. Someone at my
>church gave it to me. I have only taken one college course in biology
>(biology 101). Our professor was an atheist but he treated Christians with
>respect.

You need to explain to the person at your church that Ken Ham is a
fraud, a con man who steals money from believers with the lies he tells.
If you do not warn this person it is because you are shilling for the
evil Mr. Ham.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:44:05 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

You have made it clear here that you reject all facts that do not fit
with your ignorant religious prejudices.

[Mitchell Holman]

Devils Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:47d61cd7-f289-4dde...@h3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:

It would be nice to see a biblical fundy
here who could actually discuss Ye Floode.
Jason just says "I don't know" to the most
obvious questions about it and resumes
telling everyone he believes it.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE5468B92591...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

Just focus on one subject at a time. Copy and Paste the most important
subject that you want be to respond to--not 5 different subjects.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE54F8EB9F15...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

I don't know. No person knows how many creatures were on the ark. He was
just guessing.

[Jason]

In article <ar61i7d2d3peklbop...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

Ken Ham believes everything that he has ever written. He shares my world view.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:19:24 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

There were no creatures on the ark. Noah's Ark is a fictional myth as is
the flood associated with it. The evidence is overwhelming that no such
flood could ever have taken place. You need to accept the facts.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:20:50 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

I am quite confident that Ken Ham doesn't give a damn what he says as
long as it makes money for him. He knows that he is lying, yet he keeps
doing it. Yes, the two of you share the worldview that lying is okay if
you blame God for the lies you tell.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-2501121708320001@67-150-173-
122.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Sigh.....

From your own cite:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/really-a-flood-and-ark


1) "The animals simply arrived at the Ark as if called
by a "homing instinct" (a behavior implanted in the
animals by their Creator) and marched up the ramp,
all by themselves. Though this was probably a
supernatural event (one that cannot be explained by
our understanding of nature)"

Problem: Your cite has no explanation for how all

the worlds animals (including those that cannot even

walk, like sloths) crossed oceans and continents to
get to the Middle East.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-25011...@67-150-173-122.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

That seems to be your answer to every
question you are asked around here.

Is there anything you DO know about?

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE5BF6CEA6F8...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

Why not visit icr.org and use their search engine to google "noah's flood".

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE5D6D223CCF...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

I don't know :-))

[Jason]

In article <r6e1i79ct1os544n0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

Why would I accept it if I don't believe it. I believe Noah's Flood did happen.

[Jason]

In article <89e1i7paje6lvqk6b...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch

You still don't get it. There are thousands of people just like Ken Ham.
We believe what the Bible has to say. These are the names of people that
have accepted the biblical account of creation:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/

Some modern scientists who have accepted the biblical account of creation

* Dr. Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
* Dr. E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
* Dr. James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr. Steve Austin, Geologist
* Dr. S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr. Thomas Barnes, Physicist
* Dr. Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
* Dr. Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
* Dr. John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist,
Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
* Dr. Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
* Dr. Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr. Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr. Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
* Dr. David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
* Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
* Dr. David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
* Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
* Dr. Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
* Dr. Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
* Dr. Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist (interview)
* Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
* Dr. John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
* Dr. Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
* Dr. Bob Compton, DVM
* Dr. Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr. Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
* Dr. William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear
Physics
* Dr. Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
* Dr. Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
* Dr. Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
* Dr. Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr. Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
* Dr. Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
* Dr. Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
* Dr. David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
* Dr. Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
* Dr. David Down, Field Archaeologist
* Dr. Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr. Ted Driggers, Operations research
* Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
* Dr. André Eggen, Geneticist
* Dr. Dudley Eirich, Molecular Biologist
* Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
* Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr. Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
* Dr. Paul Giem, Medical Research
* Dr. Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr. Duane Gish, Biochemist
* Dr. Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
* Dr. Warwick Glover, General Surgeon
* Dr. D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
* Dr. Robin Greer, Chemist, History
* Dr. Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
* Dr. Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
* Dr. Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
* Dr. Barry Harker, Philosopher
* Dr. Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
* Dr. John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
* Dr. Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
* Dr. George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
* Dr. Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
* Dr. Harold R. Henry, Engineer
* Dr. Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
* Dr. Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr. Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
* Dr. Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
* Dr. Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
* Dr. Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
* Dr. Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr. George F. Howe, Botany
* Dr. Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
* Dr. Russell Humphreys, Physicist
* Dr. James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr. Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
* Dr. Arthur Jones, Biology
* Dr. Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
* Dr. Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
* Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
* Dr. Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
* Dr. Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
* Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
* Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
* Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
* Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
* Dr. John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr. Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr. Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr. John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
* Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
* Dr. John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr. Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
* Dr. Alan Love, Chemist
* Dr. Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
* Dr. John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr. George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
* Dr. Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
* Dr. John McEwan, Chemist
* Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
* Dr. David Menton, Anatomist
* Dr. Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
* Dr. John Meyer, Physiologist
* Dr. Albert Mills, Animal Embryologist/Reproductive Physiologist
* Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
* Dr. Tommy Mitchell, Physician
* Dr. John N. Moore, Science Educator
* Dr. John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
* Dr. Henry M. Morris (1918­2006), founder of the Institute for
Creation Research.
* Dr. Arlton C. Murray, Paleontologist
* Dr. John D. Morris, Geologist
* Dr. Len Morris, Physiologist
* Dr. Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
* Dr. Terry Mortenson, History of Geology
* Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
* Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
* Dr. Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Dr. David Oderberg, Philosopher
* Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr. John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
* Dr. Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
* Dr. Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
* Dr. David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
* Prof. Richard Porter
* Dr. Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
* Dr. John Rankin, Cosmologist
* Dr. A.S. Reece, M.D.
* Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
* Dr. Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr. David Rosevear, Chemist
* Dr. Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr. Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
* Dr. Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
* Dr. Ian Scott, Educator
* Dr. Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
* Dr. Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
* Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
* Dr. Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
* Dr. Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
* Dr. Roger Simpson, Engineer
* Dr. Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
* Dr. E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
* Arthur E. Wilder-Smith (1915­1995) Three science doctorates; a
creation science pioneer
* Dr. Andrew Snelling, Geologist
* Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
* Dr. Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
* Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
* Dr. Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr. Charles Taylor, Linguistics
* Dr. Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
* Dr. Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
* Dr. Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr. Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Dr. Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
* Dr. Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr. Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Sir Cecil P. G. Wakeley (1892­1979) Surgeon
* Dr. Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
* Dr. Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
* Dr. Keith Wanser, Physicist
* Dr. Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
* Dr. A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
* Dr. John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
* Dr. Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr. Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
* Dr. Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
* Dr. Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
* Prof. Verna Wright, Rheumatologist (deceased 1997)
* Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
* Dr. Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical
Engineering
* Dr. Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr. Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr. Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
* Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
* Dr. Henry Zuill, Biology

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE5D5066C623...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

God is able to make miracles happen. That is the reason those sorts of
creatures and various other creatures ended up on the ark.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-25011...@66-53-214-150.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Bingo.

Your flood tale, like your whole religion, has no
basis in common sense, it defies all logic, and it is
no different than a childs' belief in Santa Clause or
the Tooth Fairy.


http://holykaw.alltop.com/how-to-choose-a-religion-the-flow-chart

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-25011...@66-53-214-150.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

1) Been there, done that. Their unproven claims
are no different than your unproven claims.

2) They are not posting here, you are.

[DanielSan]

There once was a man who decided on a whim to visit Harvard University.
There, he proceeded to set fire to the trashcans and threw bricks
through the windows. After being apprehended by police and spending
some time in jail, he was able to tell his friends, "Look, I went to
Harvard."

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE6469DC1DBE...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

Noah's flood did happen. I found this sentence in a ICR newletter article:

"...which could explain the extensive sediment layers in the portion of
the geological record associated with Noah's Flood."

If you want to read the entire article, visit icr.org and type these words
into their search engine:

Mantle Rotation and the Flood

[RichTravsky]

Jason wrote:
>
> In article <4F1CCCCE...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky
> <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>

> > Jason wrote:

> > > David Fritzinger <dfri...@nospamtome.hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> > > > > In article <Xns9FE14CCD8E1A6...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> > > > > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > > > > > DanielSan <daniel...@gmail.com> wrote in

> > > No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research on subjects
> > > that I already know about. For example, I know how the Grand Canyon was
> > > formed. Why would I waste time researching that subject?
> >
> > So do we. Known geologic processes. No worldwide flood.
>
> Noah's flood and the river at the bottom of the canyon played a role.

What flood?

[Jason]

In article <jfq6bv$ls0$6...@dont-email.me>, DanielSan

He was telling the truth.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-26011...@67-150-174-118.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

ICR cannot explain how animals that cannot
even walk got to Noah's ark and neither can you.

[RichTravsky]

DanielSan wrote:
> On 1/23/2012 2:01 AM, Andrew wrote:
> > "Devils Advocaat" wrote in message news:aa57d406-8883-439e-9eaf-
> > (Jason) wrote:
> > RichTravsky wrote:
> >>> Jason wrote:
> >>>> David Fritzinger wrote:
> >>>>> Ja...@nospam.com wrote:
> >>>>>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
> >>>>>>> DanielSan wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Flint wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> DanielSan wrote:

> > -
> > - There is absolutely no evidence to support this worldwide flood story.
> >
> > Then you refuse the accepted definition of the word - evidence.
>
> evidence (ev-ih-dens) n. data on which to establish truth or falsehood;
> that which is plain or clear to the sight or understanding
>
> Please provide objective (not subject to personal feelings, prejudices,
> biases; based in fact) evidence for the worldwide flood. Because, well,
> no one can find any.

Even a couple hundred years ago they couldn't find any.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geology

[RichTravsky]

Jason wrote:
>
> In article <Xns9FE34A4B2AB7B...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

> Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> > news:Jason-22011...@66-53-215-109.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

> >
> > > In article <4F1CCCCE...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky
> > > <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> >

> > >> > No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research on
> > >> > subjects that I already know about. For example, I know how the
> > >> > Grand Canyon was formed. Why would I waste time researching that
> > >> > subject?
> > >>
> > >> So do we. Known geologic processes. No worldwide flood.
> > >
> > > Noah's flood and the river at the bottom of the canyon played a role.
> >
> >

> > How did corals get from the bottom to the top? Did
> > they grow legs and walk? Did they grow fins and swim?
>
> The entire world was covered with water after the flood came to an end.

> That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon walls.

Where did the water come from, and where did it go?

[RichTravsky]

Jason wrote:
> In article <Xns9FE3D342025BA...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in news:Jason-2301121510220001@66-53-211-

> > > In article <Xns9FE34A4B2AB7B...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell
> > > Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

> > >> > In article <4F1CCCCE...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky
> > >> > <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research on
> > >> >> > subjects that I already know about. For example, I know how the
> > >> >> > Grand Canyon was formed. Why would I waste time researching that
> > >> >> > subject?
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So do we. Known geologic processes. No worldwide flood.
> > >> >
> > >> > Noah's flood and the river at the bottom of the canyon played a
> > role.
> > >>
> > >> How did corals get from the bottom to the top? Did
> > >> they grow legs and walk? Did they grow fins and swim?
> > >
> > > The entire world was covered with water after the flood came to an end.
> >

> > So how did the corals move up the side of the canyon?
> >

> > > That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon walls.
> >

> > The "top of the canyon walls" would have been
> > under six miles of water. And fresh water at that,
> > which is lethal to corals. So how did they not only
> > live but migrate?
>
> I don't know.

What? Aren't you going to claim it was a miracle?

[RichTravsky]

Regardless, it has to be able to have alllllll the creatures, and plants, we
have today.

That's a lot.

[RichTravsky]

Loonies believe what they say and write too.

[RichTravsky]

then why didn't god just kill everyone without all this fuss?

[Jason]

In article <4F21BB92...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

Noah's flood.

[Jason]

In article <4F21C984...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

We have found lots of evidence. Google "archeological evidence for Noah's
Flood" and visit the first 10 hits.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE69D0155A03...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

God is a miracle working God--that explains it--it was a miracle.

[Jason]

In article <4F21CB61...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

Prior to Noah's flood there were a vapor canopy surrounding the earth. It
collaped and the result was Noah's flood. The oceans contained very little
water prior to the flood. Lots of the water ended up as ocean water, lake
water and ground water.

[Andrew]

"RichTravsky" wrote in message news:4F21CDD3...@hotmail.com...
> Jason wrote:

>> Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> >
>> > I have already been to your website and posted
>> > the problems with it. For instance, it says the ark
>> > only held 16,000 animals. That is to say, 8000 species.
>> > Yet we know there are over a million separate land
>> > species on Earth. And that doesn't include all the
>> > Dinosaurs your site says were saved.
>> >
>> > So, how did all those millions of species that
>> > didn't get saved get saved?
>>
>> I don't know. No person knows how many creatures were on the ark. He was
>> just guessing.
>
> Regardless, it has to be able to have alllllll the creatures, and plants, we
> have today.
>
> That's a lot.

Shows the genetic potential that was in the DNA.

[Jason]

In article <4F21CDD3...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

Yes, and God used miracles to make it happen.

[Jason]

In article <4F21CEC9...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

I don't know. God's ways are not our ways. God had the power to do it any
way that he wanted to do it. He chose to do it via Noah's flood. One
preacher explained it this way--God was saying that he wanted to clense
the world of evil--and that is the reason he used Noah's Flood to make it
happen.

[Jason]

In article <4F21CDED...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky

Stephen Hawking believes everything he writes to--is he a loonie?

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-26011...@67-150-168-125.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Like I said, ICR cannot explain it and neither can you.

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-26011...@67-150-168-125.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

> In article <4F21CB61...@hotmail.com>, RichTravsky
> <traRvE...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jason wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <Xns9FE34A4B2AB7B...@216.196.121.131>,
>> > Mitchell Holman <nomailcomcast.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> > > news:Jason-22011...@66-53-215-109.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:
>> > >
>> > > > In article <4F1CCCCE...@hotmMOVEail.com>, RichTravsky
>> > > > <traR...@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > No--my time is too valuable wasting time conducting research
>> > > >> > on subjects that I already know about. For example, I know
>> > > >> > how the Grand Canyon was formed. Why would I waste time
>> > > >> > researching that subject?
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So do we. Known geologic processes. No worldwide flood.
>> > > >
>> > > > Noah's flood and the river at the bottom of the canyon played a
>> > > > role.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > How did corals get from the bottom to the top? Did
>> > > they grow legs and walk? Did they grow fins and swim?
>> >
>> > The entire world was covered with water after the flood came to an
>> > end. That is when sea creatures ended up on top of the canyon
>> > walls.
>>
>> Where did the water come from, and where did it go?
>
>
> Prior to Noah's flood there were a vapor canopy surrounding the earth.

Even the Bible itself doesn't claim that.

Where are you getting this from?

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:29:02 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

>In article <r6e1i79ct1os544n0...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
><lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
...
>> There were no creatures on the ark. Noah's Ark is a fictional myth as is
>> the flood associated with it. The evidence is overwhelming that no such
>> flood could ever have taken place. You need to accept the facts.
>
>Why would I accept it if I don't believe it.

I don't really care what you believe, because the facts show that there
was no such flood.

>I believe Noah's Flood did happen.

How can you? The facts show that it did not happen.

You seem quite willing to lie about the most absurd things that everyone
can see for themselves is a lie.

[Free Lunch]

On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 22:32:24 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
alt.talk.creationism:

>In article <89e1i7paje6lvqk6b...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
><lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 17:20:50 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> alt.talk.creationism:
>>
>> >In article <ar61i7d2d3peklbop...@4ax.com>, Free Lunch
>> ><lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 00:40:18 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
>> >> alt.talk.creationism:
>> >>

>> I am quite confident that Ken Ham doesn't give a damn what he says as
>> long as it makes money for him. He knows that he is lying, yet he keeps
>> doing it. Yes, the two of you share the worldview that lying is okay if
>> you blame God for the lies you tell.
>
>You still don't get it. There are thousands of people just like Ken Ham.
>We believe what the Bible has to say. These are the names of people that
>have accepted the biblical account of creation:
>
>http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/bios/


Ken Ham is a man who makes money telling lies to believers.

Answers in Genesis is a lie-filled site that he owns.

No honest person would ever refer to Answers in Genesis when trying to
offer evidence to others.

You have never really cared how many lies you tell.

Ken Ham has told many more lies than you will ever have the chance to
tell.

[Free Lunch]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 14:53:43 -0800, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in

Ken Ham knows he is telling lies. Why don't you know that Ken Ham is
telling lies?

[Mitchell Holman]

Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote in
news:Jason-26011...@67-150-168-125.lsan.mdsg-pacwest.com:

Even your ICR doesn't claim that. In fact
deliberate AVOIDS any details about how all
the earth's lifeforms made it into the ark.

Haven't you noticed that?

[DanielSan]

So, now you believe in macroevolution?

[Jason]

> >> ICR cannot explain how animals that cannot
> >> even walk got to Noah's ark and neither can you.
> >
> > God is a miracle working God--that explains it--it was a miracle.
>
>
> Like I said, ICR cannot explain it and neither can you.

I just explained it.

[Jason]

In article <Xns9FE6D56E6AF08...@216.196.121.131>, Mitchell

Genesis 2:6 And a mist went up from the earth, and watered the whole face
of the ground.