Straw Hives
SJD
Does anyone here have experience with straw hives-is there a site that
discusses these?
Mike Reddy
SDer...@aol.com wrote:
>Does anyone here have experience with straw hives-is there a site that
>discusses these?
Hi,
Yes there is at least one site (mine) which looks at skeps - straw hives:
http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/
If this does not help you, please email me at mre...@glam.ac.uk
--
Email: mre...@glam.ac.uk CU-Seeme: 193.63.130.40 (On request)
Web: http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/
Snail: J228, Dept. of Computer Studies, University of Glamorgan,
Pontypridd, Mid Glamorgan. CF37 1DL Wales, UK.
TEL: +44 1443 482 240 Fax: +44 1443 482 715
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Tom Perigrin
In article <mreddy-ya02408000...@news.fu-berlin.de>,
mre...@glam.ac.uk (Mike Reddy) wrote:
>
> SDer...@aol.com wrote:
>
> >Does anyone here have experience with straw hives-is there a site that
> >discusses these?
>
> Hi,
>
> Yes there is at least one site (mine) which looks at skeps - straw hives:
>
> http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/
>
> If this does not help you, please email me at mre...@glam.ac.uk
I remember reading someplace that "non-inspectable" hives are against USDA
rules. Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums. I am
not sure what authorities the USDA has... for example, do they only have
jurisdiction over commerical agriculture (in the USA of course), or can
they control hobbiest beeekeeping as well?
Tom
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Jack Griffes
Tom Perigrin <tip*@ai.chem.ohiou.edu> wrote in article
<tip*-100497...@shimizu.chem.ohiou.edu>...
>
> I remember reading someplace that "non-inspectable" hives are against
USDA
> rules. Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums. I
am
> not sure what authorities the USDA has... for example, do they only have
> jurisdiction over commerical agriculture (in the USA of course), or can
> they control hobbiest beeekeeping as well?
Check your State regulations - many states have regulations against
"non-inspectable hives" - and these state regulations often apply to all
beekeepers though in some states the regs for commercial and hobby folks do
have some differences.
--
Jack Griffes
Country Jack's Honeybee Farm
Honeybee Improvement Program
Ottawa Lake, MI 49267
USA
e-mail !!!Gri...@ix.netcom.com!!!
Web site http://www2.netcom.com/~griffes/
Due to SPAMers you must now remove the exclamation points from the e-mail
address before sending me a message.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
JG in NY
I've seen lots of wooden ("modern") hives that were nigh "non-inspectable," too!
...as I'm sure you have, Jack
I just love it when the top bars pull off...
;-)
Jack Griffes
JG in NY <jw...@cornell.edu> wrote in article
<jwg6-11049...@cu-dialup-1911.cit.cornell.edu>...
> I've seen lots of wooden ("modern") hives that were nigh
"non-inspectable," too!
> ...as I'm sure you have, Jack
>
> I just love it when the top bars pull off...
>
> ;-)
oh yeah - that is tons of fun alright Joel - tons of fun - standing there
with the top bar in hand honey oozing out scratching your head (now with
honey in the hair - a wonderful hair treatment I suppose) wondering what to
do now. Sort of makes you wish they had glued the frame parts or else used
Pierco frames ;-) (I still need to get with Nick about becoming the paid
spokesman for Pierco frames - darn I wish I would quit forgetting to do
that - I could almost be a millionare by now I reckon - hmm I wonder if I
even spelled millionare correctly maybe you can't be one if you can't spell
it - don't you wish "Spell as you go" worked on Internet News and Internet
Mail?)
--
Jack Griffes
Country Jack's Honeybee Farm
Honeybee Improvement Program
Ottawa Lake, MI 49267
USA
e-mail !!!Gri...@ix.netcom.com!!!
Malcolm Roe
SJD (SDer...@aol.com) wrote:
> Does anyone here have experience with straw hives-is there a site that
> discusses these?
See:
http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/
--
Malcolm Roe m...@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Richard Yates
Tom Perigrin wrote:
> Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums.
ah bee gum! (only of relevance to UK beekeepers)
Richard.
~~~~~~~~
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The Open University is not responsible for content herein, which may
be incorrect and is used at readers own risk.
Mark Culotta
Tom Perigrin wrote:
> Mike Reddy wrote:
> >
> > SDer...@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > >Does anyone here have experience with straw hives-is there a site that
> > >discusses these?
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Yes there is at least one site (mine) which looks at skeps - straw hives:
> >
> > http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/
> >
> > If this does not help you, please email me at mre...@glam.ac.uk
>
> I remember reading someplace that "non-inspectable" hives are against USDA
> rules. Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums. I am
> not sure what authorities the USDA has... for example, do they only have
> jurisdiction over commerical agriculture (in the USA of course), or can
> they control hobbiest beeekeeping as well?
My understanding is that Skeps are pretty much illegal anywhere in the
US as well as the UK. I thought someone from the UK had posted in
this group that they worked at one of those "Living History" kind of
places set c. 1600 and had to get a special permit for keeping a live
Skep.
BTW Tom, don't I recall reading posts by you in wreck.ww regarding
the benefit and use of handtools and old-fashioned woodworking?
Mark Culotta
--
--
________________________________________________________________________
Mark K. Culotta m...@nexen.com
Ascom Nexion 289 Great Rd., Acton MA 01720 USA +1 508 266-2355
Harry Goudie
>
> My understanding is that Skeps are pretty much illegal anywhere in the
> US as well as the UK. I thought someone from the UK had posted in
> this group that they worked at one of those "Living History" kind of
> places set c. 1600 and had to get a special permit for keeping a live
> Skep.
>
in world. Bees are wild animals. Who has the right to say where they set
up home. It is true that skeps can not be examined as you would an
ordinary have but there are no laws that I know of that insist that you
inspect your hives. You can keep bees in Britain, as far as I am aware,
without opening up a brood box ever!! I think that a lot of beekeepers are
probably guilty of that. Skep beekeeping is absolutely fascinating.
Harry
Scotland
Mike Reddy
Mark Culotta wrote:
>My understanding is that Skeps are pretty much illegal anywhere in the
>US as well as the UK. I thought someone from the UK had posted in
>this group that they worked at one of those "Living History" kind of
>places set c. 1600 and had to get a special permit for keeping a live
>Skep.
I am probably that person, being the "Tudor beekeeper" for Kentwell Hall in
Long Melford, Suffolk, and I don't have/need a permit in the UK. There are
other sites in the UK that also have skeps (some inhabited): the Weald and
Downland Museum near Chichester, St. Fagins Folk Museum in Cardiff, though
the latter is not what it once was. Some info on my work is available from:
http://www.comp.glam.ac.uk/pages/staff/mreddy/skepFAQ/
Harry Goudie wrote:
>I would hope that skeps were legal anywhere
>in world. Bees are wild animals. Who has the right to say where they set
>up home. It is true that skeps can not be examined as you would an
>ordinary have but there are no laws that I know of that insist that you
>inspect your hives. You can keep bees in Britain, as far as I am aware,
>without opening up a brood box ever!! I think that a lot of beekeepers are
>probably guilty of that. Skep beekeeping is absolutely fascinating.
I certainly agree with the last statement! However, I think that the USA
does have some legislation about "non-inspectable" hives in some states.
There is a difference between bees in a hollow tree and bees in a basket
you yourself have put them in, in my opinion. While we are not keepers of
wild bees, we are (and should remain) responsible for our own bees. For
instance, I DO send my Winter scrapings to the relevant Government lab for
analysis. They have had varroa for two years now, since I caught a local
wild swarm which promptly infected my other hives, and I DO treat them with
Bayvarol strips and it IS possible to inspect comb from a skep!. Here's
how:
Inspecting comb
---------------
This all depends on how much you need to see. If you are just trying to
gauge how much honey there is, the best bet is to simply 'heft' (the
medieaval word. Hefting was considered a great skill in those days!), lift
or weigh the skep. It depends on the amount of comb and brood, but a skep
that is just comfortably heavy, should last all but the severest Winter,
though a feed in Autumn and Spring might be necessary for lighter hives. If
you can lift the skep easily you have problems. I try to heft in August, so
that there is time for a good few feeds. (Remember I don't keep these bees
for honey! Just for fun and learning).
If you need to make a cursory examination of the brood comb, choose a warm
day and the comb can be gently parted (at least the central combs where
most of the brood will be anyway). The shape of brood cappings can be seen
by brushing the bees away after a good smoke - I use a cured pheasant's
wing.
If you suspect foul brood or any of the real nasties that can hide away in
the brood comb, you will have to cut out a comb or two. A long chisel-like
tool (screwdriver?) can be used to cut away the supporting wax at the edge
of the comb. Then the comb itself carefully removed and inspected (Note I
am ignoring the bees in this description. You will have to make the usual
precautions as this is quite invasive and will stir up the mildest of
bees). You can then place the comb back in position as best you can and
take some previously prepared sharpened sticks (Did I forget to mention
those? Sorry).
The comb is held in place by driving the sticks through the walls of the
skep so that they jut out both sides (i.e. they will go through all the
combs and be supported by the skep wall). The bees will soon get to work
reattaching the comb with new wax and repairing any small damage caused by
the sticks, which may be removed once you are sure that the work has been
done. Note, that wax production is hard work, requiring good food stores,
so try to do this in Spring during a good nectar flow if you can.
Obviously, if you suspect a disease which must be reported, such as AFB,
then it must be done regardless. If you do not see it feasible to replace
the comb, try to take an edge piece as, otherwise, the wilnter hibernation
of the brood may be adversely affected by the gap.
The best test for varroa is the icing sugar test:
1) Prepare some paper plates with a generous lip margerine round the edge
to trap any falling varroa - I use vegan soya margerine as it is quite like
pollen patties and the bees love it! Paper plates are used as they can be
folded to hold any varroa before burning or collecting. I prefer the former
as it gives me a moment of revenge on the little blighters!
2) Fill a sugar shaker, or container with a perforated top, with the finest
icing sugar; one or two handfuls will be enough for each skep.
3) Turn over your skep, and smoke the inquisitive ones IF REALLY NECESSARY
(I try not too as it packs all the bees tight on the comb, which we don't
want).
4) Sprinkle the icing sugar on the bees until they all look 'grey' and are
well covered. The sound of the bees should change to an intriguing buzz
(well worth not smoking the bees for) and in most cases the bees should not
become agressive. After all, a falling of 'snow' doesn't happen very often
in the life of a bee, so they all find it most interesting.
5) Turn the skep back over the previously placed paper plate and wait 15-20
minutes. The feet of the varroa get clogged and they are dislodged by the
cleaning action of the dusty bees.
You can tell whether a colony are badly infested by the number of mites on
the plate: 10+ you must treat your hive! This really works and has the
added advantage of providing protein and sugar to the bees. It's also
cheaper than opening a pack of Bayvarol on the off chance!
Treating with Bayvarol (or equivalent) is really a necessity if you (and
your neighbours) still want to keep bees! This is done by the crafty use of
long skewers ( or the pointy sticks mentioned earlier) to hold the strips
up near the brood comb. I have done this - it's tricky but the treatment
worked. Few or no mites were found on subsequent inspections of treated
skeps. I can see no easy way of using Formic Acid with skeps! If you have
any ideas, please tell me first before trying it. Formic Acid is nasty
stuff, and I wouldn't want any bees distressed needlessly.
Summary
-------
1) It's a lot of work keeping skeps - with little or no tangiable return on
your time.
2) You still need to be responsible and vigilant (if not more so).
3) It may be illegal, though I think this is based upon prejudice!
4) It's a hell of a lot of fun!
I look forward to any queries you may have. Please email and post your
replies as it will all go in the FAQ eventually!
Mike (aka Will Harper - 16th century beekeeper to the manor of the Clopton
Family at Kentwell Hall, Long Melford, Suffolk)
P.S. It took four years of work in the wilderness to develop these
techniques. If you use them or disseminate them, please cite me.
(c) Mike Reddy, 1997
Andy Nachbaur
>I think that is not correct. I would hope that skeps were legal anywhere
>in world. Bees are wild animals. Who has the right to say where they set
>up home. It is true that skeps can not be examined as you would an
>ordinary have but there are no laws that I know of that insist that you
>inspect your hives. You can keep bees in Britain, as far as I am aware,
>without opening up a brood box ever!! I think that a lot of beekeepers are
>probably guilty of that. Skep beekeeping is absolutely fascinating.
Hi Harry,
Keeping bees in "Skeps" or any other hive is legal in the United
States and California as long as they can be inspected for AFB.
Most I have seen could be inspected. If someone was really concerned
about it with a little effort some sort of starter foundation could be
used to help the bees make nice combs and reduce the cross combs.
It would be very interesting to know how many straw skeps have been
sold in the US the last 20 years. I am sure the vast majority are never
used as bee hives and would guess the numbers imported are in the tens
of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. The price seems high here and
I have seen some made in the US of willow being sold for hundreds of
dollars each as "object's de art"...
I once set up a swarm in a pottery bear that sat in front of my honey
house always on guard, and for sure it could not be inspected, and it was
a little too hot for the bees and they soon left it. I may try again but
this time I will cut the bottom from the bear so it could be inspected
and add some ventilation, I still will have the bees going and coming
from the bears mouth.
ttul, the OLd Drone
---
ş QMPro 1.53 ş http://gears.tucson.ars.ag.gov/beecam/beecam.html
Tom Perigrin
In article <tr7k9m1...@flea.nexen.com>, m...@flea.nexen.com (Mark
Culotta) wrote:
> BTW Tom, don't I recall reading posts by you in wreck.ww regarding
> the benefit and use of handtools and old-fashioned woodworking?
Yup... C'est moi.
Beefriend
>> I remember reading someplace that "non-inspectable" hives are against
USDA
>> rules. Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums. I
am
>> not sure what authorities the USDA has... for example, do they only
have
>> jurisdiction over commerical agriculture (in the USA of course), or can
>> they control hobbiest beeekeeping as well?
A little late in getting through my e-mail, but ...
The U.S Dept of Agriculture is not the one outlawing skeps in the US, that
is done by the individual state Dept's of Ag. The reason for this is that
the combs cannot be inspected. I believe all states require bees to be
kept in hives with moveable frames. The Apiary Inspectors of America
could give you more information.
Regards,
David Morris
Laurel, Md
Harry Goudie
Yes I was amazed at this piece of legislation. I suppose the idea is to
try to stop disease but I don't suppose that there is any law which makes
you inspect your hives. What happens to wild colonies, are they doomed
to extermination on sight? What happens if you neglect to examine your
hives. Does some officer from the USDA come along and do it for you. Are
you fined, imprisoned, or what happens?
--
Harry
Scotland
Knitwear web site at:
http://freespace.virgin.net/luichart.woollens/
:
>
> >> I remember reading someplace that "non-inspectable" hives are against
> USDA
> >> rules. Skeps are considered to be non-inspectable, as are bee-gums.
I
> am
> >> not sure what authorities the USDA has....
Marc Andelman
I keep illegal hives and do not recognize the authority
of the state to tell me what to do with my bees . In
other words, they should mid their own bees wax. Also,
I do not see the benefit of requiring inspectable
hives, other than makin some government bureaucrat's
job easier. Why don't they go arrest some wild bees
for nesting in a tree?
Regards,
Marc Andelman
Tom Perigrin
In article <33735B...@ultranet.com>, Marc Andelman
*sigh*
When the populace begins to think that they are above the law, and to brag
about it in open fora, then that country is in trouble.
Marc
You may have a good arguement about the reasonming behind these laws.
However, there are ways to deal with bad laws that preserve the rule of law
in this country. Write to your congress critter, organize a grass roots
movement, get out the vote, and CHANGE the law. I was just part of a
succesful movement to get an Ohio Law changed, so that rather than break
the law, we can now do what we want within the law (not pertaining to
beekeeping).
You say that you "do not recognize the authority of the state". Do you
think burglars, theives, and murderers should use this arguement? You are
tilling the ground for them... you are giving credence to the concept that
if a person doesn't like the law, they should just refuse to recognize the
state's authority. In short, you are promoting lawlessness.
I don't like all the laws. But I do not advocate criminality.
Mike Reddy
Marc Andelman wrote:
>I keep illegal hives and do not recognize the authority
Tom Perigrin wrote:
>When the populace begins to think that they are above the law, and to brag
>about it in open fora, then that country is in trouble.
[snip]
>I don't like all the laws. But I do not advocate criminality.
I agree with Tom on this, in that we need to challenge the relevant
authorities that these hives are non-inspectable; I sent in a long message
to that effect a while ago. I am lucky enough to live in Wales, where there
is no State restriction on bees domiciles. However, if an inspector came to
call, I would happily cut out comb - or whatever was necessary - to satisfy
myself that AFB or EFB, etc, were not present, and NOT A DANGER TO MY
NEIGHBROURING BEEKEEPERS! Marc, you should think not of a bodiless State
that is restricting your freedom, but your responsibility to your fellow
enthusiasts and colleagues.
Marc Andelman
> > other words, they should mid their own bees wax. Also,
> > I do not see the benefit of requiring inspectable
> > hives, other than makin some government bureaucrat's
> > job easier. Why don't they go arrest some wild bees
> > for nesting in a tree?
>
> *sigh*
>
> about it in open fora, then that country is in trouble.
>
>
> You may have a good arguement about the reasonming behind these laws.
> However, there are ways to deal with bad laws that preserve the rule of law
> in this country. Write to your congress critter, organize a grass roots
> movement, get out the vote, and CHANGE the law. I was just part of a
> succesful movement to get an Ohio Law changed, so that rather than break
> the law, we can now do what we want within the law (not pertaining to
> beekeeping).
>
> You say that you "do not recognize the authority of the state". Do you
> think burglars, theives, and murderers should use this arguement? You are
> tilling the ground for them... you are giving credence to the concept that
> if a person doesn't like the law, they should just refuse to recognize the
> state's authority. In short, you are promoting lawlessness.
>
>
>
Tom, you can tell the corruption of the state by the proliferation of
it's laws. I am quitesure that you have done something illegal this
year yourself. It is impossible to avoid it. The state maintains
discretionary athority to prosecute whenever it feels you need to be
kept in line. The South was right, BTW.
Marc Andelman