Re: [santacruzgeeks] Digest for santacruzgeeks@googlegroups.com - 14 Messages in 1 Topic

[K. Dombek]

Well, some of us are sitting on the side because we are quite frankly broke - as in zero cash.

And don't get me started on overseas vs. US. I was working for a company - getting rave reviews. That changed 2 years ago when the division manager changed.  He was from India, and promptly fired all the US programmers and moved it to India, employing his relatives instead.  I've heard that he division has since collapsed.

Hell, yes, I'm bitter...........and barely surviving.    Anybody got a job available?  I'm a hard worker.....

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, <santacr...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

  Today's Topic Summary

Group: http://groups.google.com/group/santacruzgeeks/topics

• Blueseed proposed "startup community" [14 Updates]

 Blueseed proposed "startup community"

Meadhbh Hamrick <ohme...@gmail.com> Jun 13 02:22PM -0700  

yes. but why is it understandable?
 
instead of paying $1600/mo. for a berth on a boat, you could spend it
on airfare from wherever you are outside the US. plus, you have a
chance of recruiting people to help you with your startup. and when
you want to fly into sili valley, you can still fly into sili valley.
 
'cause... remember... in order to get a business / tourist visa to the
US, you have to demonstrate you have a domicile you'll be returning to
after your visit. and i can guarantee you if you mention "i live on a
floating platform just off the US border" during your application
process, you will not get the visa.
 
-cheers
-m
--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com
 
 


 

Margaret Rosas <marg...@productops.com> Jun 13 02:36PM -0700  

This thread led to some interesting reading
 
http://www.quora.com/Blueseed/Are-there-any-interim-solutions-to-Blueseed-co
 
and a video compliments of the Blueseed CEO
 
http://youtu.be/FLCYfhZEFb8
 
<rant>Personally, I have a heart-felt conviction that we need to build
better onramps to entrepreneurship **locally** ... which is why I do what I
do.
 
Every time I see articles about Blueseed crop up I get all annoyed because
I imagine that kind of money being invested in say ... Santa Cruz instead
of a ship that feels like something trying to duplicate the bromance/frat
house/silicon valley ickiness that I don't care for.
 
I imagine that we (Santa Cruz) would generate an amazing crop of startups
that would make the world a better place. I think it's deep in our culture
here to create valuable, sustainable, ethical businesses. Those businesses
come from a place where we value our quality of life, the food we eat and
preserving the planet. It came across in the last round of TechRaising
projects loud and clear -- folks asked if we set a "sustainable" theme
(which we did not but I think it comes from the Santa Cruz values). I think
with a couple 3 or 30 million we could do amazing things. And perhaps
things even more amazing than a D-League basketball team ... but I
digress.</rant>
 
 
--
productOps
Margaret Rosas
Architect and Community Evangelist
http://twitter.com/mrosas


 

Sean Tario <sean....@gmail.com> Jun 13 04:02PM -0700  

Margaret,
 
I agree. Santa Cruz COULD be a hotbed for startup activity. There are in
fact a few very quiet "incubators" that are here, down the Bay, and in the
mountains with very innovative ideas blossoming. They are ALL funded by 1
or 2 folks who have hit home runs in the past (solving the smart money
problem Santa Cruz as a whole faces) and they are ALL struggling to attract
and retain top talent across all disciplines, including engineering of all
flavors.
 
After unsuccessfully trying to pool the local smart money together in town,
I came to the realization that it would be far easier and more enjoyable
for me to simply step up and hit my own home runs.
 
The folks at Nextspace for example are successfully executing their
business plan and hitting some solid doubles and triples with a homerun
looming for it's investors and managers I would image in the next few
years. They are also providing a solid platform for those who simply need
somewhere to kick start things. Same with Cruzio's new space and
Satellite. None of which existed 4 years ago as they do today.
 
We need more people here stepping up to the plate now, who are scrappy
enough to make something happen despite the real barriers this community
presents startups however. Hats off to those of you doing just this,
thinking big, and executing.
 
Ideally, in a few years, with the stage set, when a few of us have
successfully succeeded despite the current barriers, we can take the next
leap and start engaging and actively SEEDING local companies as some
already have and actively are. Ideally, those who are already successful
will continue to hit a few more home runs that are rooted here in the
Monterey Bay and Santa Cruz County.
 
Ideally those sitting on the sidelines will start to take notice and a
tipping point can occur within the collective mindshare of this community.
 
Nutshell, let us be the change we hope to see in this world and IN OUR
COMMUNITY. We all play a different part and role in this process, but as we
are seeing, this is a process... a LONG and HARD process.
 
Again, my heart goes out and my hat is off to those right now doing, making
manifest, fighting the good fight and keeping hope alive. Stay strong. Real
change is happening.
 
Blessings,
 
Sean


 

Dan Dascalescu <d...@blueseed.co> Jun 13 11:14PM -0700  

Hey everyone,
 
My name is Dan Dascalescu and I'm Blueseed CIO. I found this thread via our
alerting system, and wanted to help offer some information about what we're
trying to achieve.
 
First off, I should start by saying that I live about an hour's away from
Santa Cruz, and love coming to the city every so often. The beach, the
boardwalk, the atmosphere (esp. on the 4th of July!) are awesome.
 
So about Blueseed -
 
1. The problem we're trying to solve is that foreign entrepreneurs who want
to start companies and create jobs here, don't have a visa to do so. At the
same time, the US has a "Diversity Immigrant Visa<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa>"
that gives away 55,000 green cards (not just work visas, full-blown green
cards!) per year to essentially random people (about the only meaningful
requirement is to have graduated from high school). But at the same time,
the US doesn't let startup entrepreneurs create companies, bring money in
the country, and hire American. "This is madness", as Google's Eric Schmidt
says in this video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJgw62intI#t=5m24s>:
 
*Of all the crazy rules in our government, the craziest of all, bar none,
> is that we take the smartest people in the world, we bring them to America,
> we give them PhDs in technical sciences, and we KICK THEM OUT, to go found
> great companies outside of America. This is madness.*
 
 
A friend of mine who created a startup company that hired nine Americans,
was hit by this silliness. You can see his story on Diane Sawyer's show on
ABC news <http://abcn.ws/Aharoni>. The founder of India's Groupon, Kunal
Bahl, was also kicked out after graduating from Wharton<http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2011-05-10-tech-talents-leave-silicon-valley_n.htm>.
Now, his company is growing furiously<http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-06-14/news/29656986_1_kunal-bahl-discount-india-s-groupon>,
in India.
 
2. The press does sometimes misunderstand what we're trying to do, and
labels us a "floating sweatshop". There will be *no chance in hell* for
that to happen, for a lot of reasons:
 
 
- If we had an unscrupulous business model, we'd find it impossible to
raise the capital necessary to launch the project (~$60M).
- Since a floating IT shop requires a constant supply of goods from mainland
(food, water, fuel, Internet connectivity etc.), we'd be faced with a
blockade pronto if we did something fishy.
- Unlike, say, textile or manufacturing sweatshops, IT shops by their nature
have a vastly easier way of communicating with the outside world and
attracting media attention towards any form of exploitation. Their customers
in turn will not want to be seen as partnering with a sweatshop. In
short, it would be PR suicide for us to even think about that.
- It would be extremely hard to convince any IT people to get on a boat
and work for peanuts. IT workers are the last people who can be exploitable
due to the fact that they possess a skill that relatively very few people
do. That means they are free to choose where they go because their skills
are in demand.

3. Yes, there is a cap on the number of H-1B work visas for skilled
employees (65,000 per year). But that's not the point. Blueseed is a ship
for startup entrepreneurs. And there simply are no US visas for startups
entrepreneurs. At all. See this video<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLCYfhZEFb8#t=195s>by the American Immigration Lawyers Association.
 
4. Everyone will pay taxes. This is clearly detailed in our
FAQ, www.blueseed.co/faq.html#taxes
 
5. Workers on any ship are protected by international labor standards -
http://www.ilo.org
 
6. Fixing the visa process has been tried for years. Nothing worked. Here
are some of the bills that are still waiting to be passed, with their
passing chances:
 
#startupvisa http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1114 - 0%;
Startup Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1965 - 2%;
IDEA Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr2161 - 3%
 
 
I hope this answers the main points raised in the thread. For other
questions, I'd be happy to help clarify.
 
As always, information straight from the horse's mouth is best. For those
who are genuinely interested in the project and want be correctly informed
about it, there are two great resources:
 
- Blueseed: visa-free startup incubator on a ship half an hour from
Silicon Valley<http://www.slideshare.net/Blueseed/blueseed-visafree-startup-incubator-on-a-ship-12-miles-from-silicon-valley> -
our quick Powerpoint presentation
- http://blueseed.co/faq.html - our FAQ

Hope this helps,
Dan


 

Chris Miller <cto...@gmail.com> Jun 13 11:28PM -0700  

Hmmm. Ummm. Hmm. I think the real issue here is that entrepreneurs need to
"invest" in local talent. The schools (via budget cuts) are failing the
students, and companies are effectively selling out (us) to exploit foreign
born folks who come with a higher education at a low price. Is that a fair
statement?
 
I've been working with a group of local students whom are very motivated to
learn and to accomplish, it just takes some business organization and a
little effort. My company has not hit any home runs yet, but we have
created jobs, and we have built a great crew that is in itself has become a
self supporting team.
 
I don't blame anyone for seeking the American Dream, but I do think there
is a corporate responsibility to be part of the solution here at home. Just
sayin...
 
Chris


 

Alan Hawrylyshen <al...@polyphase.ca> Jun 14 09:00AM +0200  

The L1 visa category has complex restrictions that make it appropriate for transfers of talented technical staff or executive/manager types to the US offices of an established pan-national entity with offices in the US. You must have been employed by the pan-national entity for more than a year abroad - every day you spend in the US counts against the year, therefore in practice you need to have been employed in the role for 1year plus #-of-weeks-of-visits-to-US prior to qualifying. IANAL but the L1 status is hard to leverage in a small scale startup environment. These restrictions are a contributing factor to the lack of cap.
 
Alan
(formerly of L-1A status) :)
 
 
Sent from my mobile device.
 


 

"Reesa Abrams" <reesa_...@sbcglobal.net> Jun 14 07:42AM -0700  

Good statements Chris
 

 
If companies think of their standard processes as steps in a good
certification process for employees and managers and can work with other
companies in academic industrial consortia that exist today on most campuses
including on the Hill to developing ongoing professional standards we can
start developing high quality workers who are ready to take their job when
they graduate instead of the 18 months or longer (private school students
take longer) to adjust to a real work environment
 

 
That is what I did as industrial visitor @ Stanford and what we are trying
to do with TC3
 
Then we will not have the crises that have been caused by LEEDS
 

 

 
Reesa Abrams
 
COO TechCycle3
 
408 512 7217
 
www.techcycle3.com
 
reesa....@techcycle3.com
 

 
Environmentally Sound
 
Computer Recycling
 

 
TC3_logo_full_New
 

 
From: santacr...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Miller
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:29 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Blueseed proposed "startup community"
 

 

 
Hmmm. Ummm. Hmm. I think the real issue here is that entrepreneurs need to
"invest" in local talent. The schools (via budget cuts) are failing the
students, and companies are effectively selling out (us) to exploit foreign
born folks who come with a higher education at a low price. Is that a fair
statement?
 

 
I've been working with a group of local students whom are very motivated to
learn and to accomplish, it just takes some business organization and a
little effort. My company has not hit any home runs yet, but we have created
jobs, and we have built a great crew that is in itself has become a self
supporting team.
 

 
I don't blame anyone for seeking the American Dream, but I do think there is
a corporate responsibility to be part of the solution here at home. Just
sayin...
 

 
Chris
 
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Meadhbh Hamrick <ohme...@gmail.com> Jun 14 08:27AM -0700  

dan.
 
how does blueseed address the problem of "people want to start
companies in silicon valley but can't due to visa problems?"
 
i don't get it.
 
i can't get a tourist / business visa unless i have a domicile in
another country, so the blueseed raft can't be my registered domicile
for the visa process. (though you could probably solve that pretty
easy by making a deal where you get an official domicile in costa rica
when you sign up for space on the boat.)
 
the ilo does not have enforcement capability. it uses existing states
to enforce its recommendations (and... honestly... it doesn't do
_that_ great of a job.) though honestly, yes, it does seem like
business forces will do a MUCH better job than international
agreements to encourage sane working conditions.
 
where are you going to park your boat? inside the EEZ or CZ? expect a
visit from the coast guard and/or navy if/when NOAA and/or EPA get a
wild hair up their collective arses.
 
-cheers
-m
--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com
 
 


 

Kurt Overmeyer <kto...@mac.com> Jun 14 08:39AM -0700  

So why not just use the EB-5 program? Watsomville should soon have a regional center and we are just as close as the raft. Heck - I bet with that 60 mil you could develop your own business park!
 
Sent from my iPhone
 


 

Andrew Mueller <andrewb...@gmail.com> Jun 14 09:36AM -0700  

The problem that BlueSeed solves is that it makes it easy for
investors to visit, interact with, and get to know startups that are
otherwise very difficult for them to go visit. Those who may receive
investment may have the possibility of incorporating stateside.
BlueSeed is also a place where investors could "check out" talent that
they can match with the needs of their current portfolio companies and
perhaps work to get them visas or recruit to work remotely with their
portfolio companies.
 
I tend to want to give this the benefit of the doubt and rather than
speculating about what this really is and ranting about its merits or
lack there of, why not assume that it will become reality, the reality
is honorable, and explore how Santa Cruz can benefit from this
reality.
 
Just like the VCs and other investors want to attract the talent,
Santa Cruz wants to attract that talent. What could we do to make
Santa Cruz be prime location that entrepreneurs aboard BlueSeed (or
from any place else for that matter) would want to make their homes
and the headquarters of their businesses?
 
 
 
 
Sent from mobile device. Please excuse any voice to text transcription
weirdness.
 


 

Jason Wehmhoener <jaso...@gmail.com> Jun 14 09:38AM -0700  

Kurt, can you tell us more about EB-5? First I've heard of it.
 
-Jason
 


 

Steve Terry <ster...@yahoo.com> Jun 14 10:38AM -0700  

I haven't the legal expertise to address concerns raised in this thread. My assumption is that those issues, being conditional to the funding of this enterprise, have been dealt with by the Blueseed team. 
 
For that reason, I think Andrew speaks well to the opportunity that Blueseed represents to Santa Cruz tech and the local economy in which we all have a stake. I say, good luck and welcome. I also think that the radical approach that Blueseed tries here is worth exploring. We'll see how well it floats!
 
S>)
 
 
 


 

Meadhbh Hamrick <ohme...@gmail.com> Jun 14 10:49AM -0700  

call me a liberal, but i have a problem with what's effectively a
cruise ship anchored in the monterey bay marine preserve.
 
which is odd, since i always thought i was immune to NIMBYism.
 
outside the CZ & marine preserve borders, i have less of a problem
with the idea. but that would lengthen the time it takes to get to
boat by launch. so... i'm still not convinced. (which is odd, since i
generally like the idea of sea-steading.)
 
--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com
 
 


 

Nadine Schaeffer <cloud...@gmail.com> Jun 14 11:03AM -0700  

Meadhbh, I was wondering the same thing.
 
Dan, could you let us know how Blueseed is planning to manage environmental
concerns? The Monterey Bay Marine Preserve area forbids cruise ships to the
best of my knowledge, specifically because of pollution and other
environmental concerns.
 
I personally was thinking about this, because long long ago, I lived on a
houseboat on the Seine in a little community of boats, and the net results
was that the water of the Seine was NASTY. We used to joke that the river
water quality was why no one could ever get too drunk on our boat - you
wouldn't survive if you fell off.
 
I don't think much lives in the Seine anymore, but the bounty of life in
the Monterey Bay is a great and wondrous thing worthy of concern and
protection.
 
Best,
 
--
Nadine Schaeffer
 
cloud...@gmail.com
www.cloudforestdesign.com
831.600.8929 (office)
831.588.4509 (mobile)
 
 
 
 


 

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