Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Bob Cagle
Is it just me or are the street campaigns of “save the children,” “save the whales,” or “save the poor java engineers” become too much on Pacific Avenue?
It seems every day, more than once per day when I walk on Pacific Avenue, I’m approached by someone with a clipboard asking me if I have a few minutes to save something or other.
Once in a great while, no problem… multiple times per day… not so much.
I spoke with one of the folks today and they said if I had a complaint to call their boss - (831) 421-9599 .
When I did, they said this was the first complaint they ever heard and it was their right as free speech.
I asked politely that they “dial it down a bit” – if you feel the same way, please give them a call and let them know that enough is enough.
Curious if there are others that feel the same way or if I’m just cranky today.
Best regards,
Bob Cagle
Darren - L7 Development & Design
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Mary Edith Ingraham
Jeremy Korn
Yes, it’s out of control. I’m sure there’s a difference between free speech and bugging the cr*p out of people for donations. At least the buskers are making music –well sort of.
Anyway... I bet we’d get more traction calling one of our councilmen about this. It would give them something meaingiful to run their campaign on.
- J
Jason Wehmhoener
--
Bob Cagle
Thanks – that is a great point.
What about the Downtown Association? The Hospitality Program etc.
The campaigns are run by Grass Roots Campaign – Santa Cruz –
740 Front Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060-4535
Andrew Mueller
Jason Wehmhoener
Jeremy Korn
Maybe I should print this email thread - with the email addresses and names blacked out of course, and hand it out to them as I walk by ;-)
On 6/22/11 5:18 PM, "Jason Wehmhoener" <jaso...@gmail.com> wrote:
Steve Terry
Perhaps the next step would be to inform the organizations that the tactics they are using, at least downtown, are poisoning their efforts to win hearts and minds. On the money side, it may be that these tactics continue to be used because they are cost effective. Are they aware that these tactics are eroding their image? To put it in environmental terms, this isn't sustainable. When a tactic, whether rightful or not, gets in the way of connecting positively with the very people they are asking support from, what's the point? Can they afford to make money on one end and lose on the other?
My hope is that they are simply disconnected from a complete picture of what is happening on the ground. It wouldn't be the first time that a good idea on paper turned into a loose cannon on deck. Perhaps we need to educate them on a point of view that seems to have been left out of the original plan. Respectful feedback, in the form of an online petition, for example, might work better than a phone call. Where's the press when you need them? I sure smell a good story here! For sure, this is certainly a challenge for the adult in all of us! Thanks, Bob, for opening the topic up for serious discussion.
S>)
From: Bob Cagle <b...@productops.com>
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com; comm...@lists.nextspace.us
Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 4:56:54 PM
Subject: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Alan Hawrylyshen
Sent from my mobile device.
Chris Arkenberg
Sent from mobile.
Ronald Hughes
I just say "No hablo Espanol!" without breaking stride.
--Ron
> Is it just me or are the street campaigns of "save the children," "save the
> whales," or "save the poor java engineers" become too much on Pacific
> Avenue?
>
> It seems every day, more than once per day when I walk on Pacific Avenue,
> I'm approached by someone with a clipboard asking me if I have a few minutes
> to save something or other.
>
>
>
>
> I spoke with one of the folks today and they said if I had a complaint to
> call their boss - (831) 421-9599 .
>
> When I did, they said this was the first complaint they ever heard and it
> was their right as free speech.
>
> please give them a call and let them know that enough is enough.
>
> Curious if there are others that feel the same way or if I'm just cranky
> today.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bob Cagle
>
Jason Wehmhoener
Sent from my iPhone
Andrew Mueller
Great response Steve! I think we should forward your email to each group so they understand the brand deteriorating effect of their ever-present campaigning.
Andrew
-typed with thumbs
Sol Lipman
Sent from my iPhone
Todd Schafer
Todd Schafer - Designer/Web Developer - 831.464.7848 | c: 345.5563
Andrew Mueller
Stephen Blum
Tellus Venture Associates
U.S. +1-831-582-0700
N.Z. +64-21-116-0002
stev...@tellusventure.com
Hans Hoffmeister
I pretend im sneezing into my hand and then they wont approach me cuz they dont wanna touch a germy kid.
--
Mike XuOn Wednesday, June 22, 2011 at 10:21 PM, Stephen Blum wrote:
Have you no compassion for the poor java engineers?Steve Blum
Tellus Venture Associates
U.S. +1-831-582-0700
N.Z. +64-21-116-0002
stev...@tellusventure.com
On 22 June 2011 22:17, Andrew Mueller <and...@muellerandrew.com> wrote:
How about we hand these out every time we are approached....get em free from VistaPrint.Great Idea Sol how about we hand these "locals business cards" out every time we are approached...free from vista print
<sclocal biz card.png>
mike muldoon
I subscribe to the Mr Hand theory of relativity. It's not your time,
or my time, it's OUR time.
If you enter my bubble, you have done so at your own risk. And I am
duty bound, being part Bedouin, to entertain you, my guest.
So when a clipboard-wielding robo-droid does so, I hit them with a joke.
"Would you like to help eliminate hunger in Africa?"
"That is a horrible idea."
"What?"
"If you eliminate hunger, they'll all starve!"
Most importantly, this amuses me. This is my time, and I like to giggle.
And quite expeditiously, it catches them off guard, hopefully makes
them laugh, and gives me two steps to make a classy, effective exit.
They will not chase you, they're not licensed for that. Two steps is
all you need.
At your service!
Mike
Steve Terry
S>)
From: mike muldoon <mike.m...@gmail.com>
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 10:58:18 PM
Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
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> <sclocal biz card.png>
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Steve Terry
S>)
From: Sol Lipman <theso...@gmail.com>
To: "santacr...@googlegroups.com" <santacr...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, June 22, 2011 9:05:15 PM
Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Sean Tario
Friends,
Sol is onto something that could be extremely powerful. Working the political angle will take years and waste far too much more time than necessary.
Address this head on, as a community, in a substantive way, and we all win.
I'm willing to bet though that if/once a local badge/card grows into something effective and substantial, the downtown association or City Council will try to find a way to tax it/us!
Blessings,
Sean
Jason Wehmhoener
Reesa Abrams
I agree with Sean and Sol and am curious to see what will come of this conversation
Reesa Abrams
Techno-Coach Co-Founder: TechCycle3
re...@wellsprg.com www.techcycle3.com
Chris Frost
Jason Wehmhoener
Sara Isenberg Web Consulting
Todd Schafer
Todd Schafer - Designer/Web Developer - 831.464.7848 | c: 345.5563
Chris Miller
Is it just me or are the street campaigns of “save the children,” “save the whales,” or “save the poor java engineers” become too much on Pacific Avenue?
Craig Louis
to both sides. I'm sure I'm not alone here, in this. College students,
or other young people, scrabbling for funds. You try all kinds of things.
Anybody remember Bay Area Men Against Rape, of SF, Berkeley, Oakland
(BAMR)? This was at the end of the late pleistocene, 1976 perhaps? I
signed on based on adverts touting "make money while working for a good
cause." I was damn surprised at being told I'd make 50% of the take.
Like many if not most of the workers, a day or two was all I could take.
Lucky for me, I found other work. I don't know about the others. It was
a very weird gig. We'd meet in front of La Pena, on Shattuck in Oakland,
and they'd haul us across the bridge to SF, where we'd fan out across
the neighborhoods, directed by organizers. It was basically a repeated
neighborhood by neighborhood door knocking cycle. Most residents were
polite enough, even when informing us that they'd already been solicited
multiple times by BAMR. And, of course, some people were not so nice
about it. It didn't take long for most of the workers in my group to
agree that it was a weird gig, and bail out. I think I did it only
twice. Made some bucks, and it felt less than honest.
Anyway, this is nothing that most of you geeks don't know. It's nice
that people are looking for clever solutions that work for everyone
involved. It would be nice if we could offer some honest employment to
these folks, for surely that's the real solution to the problem. But, so
it goes. Again, I'm sure this is nothing that everyone else here has not
already sussed out.
Thomas Leavitt
I've signed up to support Greenpeace and the ACLU via downtown solicitors. I signed up to support The Nature Conservancy via a kid working outside Safeway on Morrissey. I'm not downtown every day, only when work takes me there, so this isn't particularly annoying to me... and all I have to say is, "Already signed up." and they go on to the next person. I did a stint of this, door to door, one summer in my youth. My calves got rock solid, I made less per hour than I ever had before or since, but I met my first business partner through it, so the karma was good.
If someone is soliciting too aggressively (there *are* a lot of barely trained kids just getting thrown out there), then their supervisors need to be informed. Usually, there'll be someone heading the "team" on the ground in the area, if not, you can get a phone number. These kids are trained to be somewhat aggressive, because that's the only way they'll avoid starving to death. Dealing with them is just part of the price of working downtown, or any urban downtown environment... there could be a lot worse problems.
Thomas
Andreas Mueller
Hi Bob and geeks,
Spoke to a person called Rallie (at Bob’s number below) – she seems to be the person in charge of canvassing.
She will take it into account our frustration for next turf meeting.
But she did add that it is their right to solicit on Pacific and can’t promise that anything will change.
Whatever that means. Just FYI.
Andreas
From: santacr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Cagle
Sent: June 22, 2011 16:57
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com; comm...@lists.nextspace.us
Subject: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Is it just me or are the street campaigns of “save the children,” “save the whales,” or “save the poor java engineers” become too much on Pacific Avenue?
It seems every day, more than once per day when I walk on Pacific Avenue, I’m approached by someone with a clipboard asking me if I have a few minutes to save something or other.
Once in a great while, no problem… multiple times per day… not so much.
I spoke with one of the folks today and they said if I had a complaint to call their boss - (831) 421-9599 .
When I did, they said this was the first complaint they ever heard and it was their right as free speech.
I asked politely that they “dial it down a bit” – if you feel the same way, please give them a call and let them know that enough is enough.
Curious if there are others that feel the same way or if I’m just cranky today.
Best regards,
Bob Cagle
--
Jason Wehmhoener
Chris Arkenberg
sent from mobile
Darren - L7 Development & Design
Chris Arkenberg
Sent from mobile.
Steve Terry
But the problem, as we all know, is that much of the daily traffic on Pacific (Mon thru Fri) is us. However, we must remember that the tourist season is in full swing. Still, even with this factored in, there's a lot of culls in the stream (us downtowners) that net zero in sales. If it were my crew, I would want a tool to let them know who was a downtowner and who wasn't. Tourists and visitors are my prime targets anyway. That's who I'm after. This would actually boost moral for my team and also reduce conflicts that inevitably occur when folks that get hit on everyday, like us, get testy about being approached. It also would help me to weed out of my crew people that don't belong. The reality here, I believe, is that there are few places that generate the kind of foot traffic seen on Pacific. For that reason, we will have to live with it. But, as I said earlier, it's all in how things get done. There is a middle way here, we just need to work with the orgs to find it.
BTW, perhaps a less complicated approach would be some sort of hand signal, like hang loose, that we could flash to these folks to cue them in not to waste their time. We would smile, of course. We could inform their orgs that we expect their people to respectfully honor the signal. Orgs should know that a disrespectful response will be noted and reported. Better to get the hard asses off the street anyway, from all points of view. In fact, I would have them smile back and return the signal. It's feels better on both sides, right? Everyone continues to have a nice day and the atmosphere stays friendly on the street. That's we all want. These kids should feel OK about what their doing. It's a tough job. I've done it. The point is, we can actually help by opening a path to a middle way where everyone's rights are observed and everyone's needs are valued. I think this is all doable.
From: Darren - L7 Development & Design <darren...@l7webdesign.com>
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, June 23, 2011 7:38:26 PM
Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Margaret Rosas
Tenacity is probably the most important attribute in an entrepreneur. It’s the person who never gives up – who never accepts “no” for an answer. The world is filled with doubters who say that things can’t be done and then pronounce after the fact that they “knew it all along."
The funny twist here is the young folks holding the Greenpeace clipboards have tenacity too. I too had my stint at telemarketing. It happened to be located in a building that had an abortion clinic. Ever been a teenage girl walking into a building with an abortion clinic on a Saturday morning? Not a fun experience. After two Saturdays I called it quits and got a job elsewhere. Tenacity I had then and still do -- but I have learned to pick my battles.
So my point is two fold.
1) This is OUR downtown. All of us, the downtowners, the homeless, the musicians, the non-musicians who think they are musicians, the tourists, the business owners. I don't ever believe in accepting that something will continue to be the same way because it always has been.
I believe if you are passionate about something and have the TENACITY to make it happen you can and do make things happen. Right now it's the kids with the clipboards and the organizations behind them. How could we re-imagine this scenario? I'm a fan of the giving them a card back in response to stopping. Basically, hey if I listen to you, you get to listen to me. What message can we deliver directly to each one of those kids with a clipboard? What are 3 things you would want to tell them? What if all of these kids gave out free hugs on Fridays instead (http://www.freehugscampaign.org/)?
2) Todd, Andrew, Sol and others -- I absolutely support any effort that inspires a change in the current situation. I like the idea of a card where I can personalize a message. Heck, maybe we could brainstorm a list of things we would tell them, print up cards and sell them at Bookshop :) I can see the campaign now --
Buy a package of "I love downtown cards" to distribute YOUR own message to all the folks requesting (money, signature, etc). All proceeds go to creating an entrepreneurial training academy ...
I know the turnover is huge in these orgs, perhaps we can double time the turnover by shifting these kids into spaces and places that funnel their passions and inspire their entrepreneurial tenacity that serves all of Santa Cruz.
Ever in support of raising the entrepreneurial quotient among us, I am yours,
Margaret
Founder & Chief Strategist
Quiddities - A Creative Web Solutions Agency
http://quiddities.com
Chris Arkenberg
sent from mobile
Reesa Abrams
Margaret
You are a great leader
I am proud to know you
Happy Birthday
Offer for lunch still stands
Reesa
Reesa Abrams
Techno-Coach Co-Founder: TechCycle3
re...@wellsprg.com www.techcycle3.com
www.wellsprg.com reesa....@techcycle3.com
contact | darren...@L7WebDesign.com | p: 831.515.8597 | f: 831.515.5124
Steve Terry
It's a good time to ask questions. Am I somehow more justified when I lat down a stack of biz cards or give one to someone who hasn't asked for it? When I pay for advancing my business in the marketplace, aren't I paying to put my name and message in the "flow" of traffic? Do I ask for permission from the readers of the magazine or newspaper to be in "their" space? Is this that much different that we would make an ordinance to exclude their presence in "our" space? Is one practice more noble than the other? If we are annoyed by all these questions what does it say about us? Asking questions frames the focus of our intentions. So what is my intention? Is it to remove folks from the street because they annoy me? Or, is it to find a path that respects and supports the needs of "others" in concert with mine?
Lately, I've tried just smiling and flashing the peace sign, rather than ignoring these folks. A few times I've stopped and thanked them. Why?. I do this because I saw friends in my generation, the Woodstock Kids, evolve from open, caring, and optimistic young people, into hardened, self-indulgent, cynical, self-appointed judges, completely comfortable to sort humanity into good and bad, productive and lazy. Ironically, a number of these Woodstock Kids, took over the benches their parents vacated. There they now sit, looking down from the heights of their own hypocrisy and fretting about "the youth of today".
My intention is to practice behavior that, at the least, does not reinforce the cynicism and self-righteousness that has seeped into the political and social dialogue over the years. Like plaque, it has hardened into what we call , euphemistically, "grid lock". We are losing the ability to build solutions together (like TechRaising) and instead live inside ideological fortresses alongside the people who think like us and look like us, while we peer over the ramparts with suspicion at "those others" who "don't get it", or who just make us uncomfortable by being there, in OUR space.
Mother Teresa made one of the most profound and trenchant observations about humanity that I have ever read. When I read it, it was immediately imprinted on my consciousness, like a tattoo. It will be there until I die. She said, "If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other."
Th-th-that's all folks!
Steve
From: Margaret Rosas <marg...@quiddities.com>
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 9:30:13 AM
Jason Wehmhoener
Kathryn Gorges
Bob Cagle
Well… what a wonderful dialogue – thanks.
As the guy that launched the discussion, let me first say how much I appreciate the honesty and humor and perhaps my attempt to sum up what I see amongst the group will wrap this one up.
· For the most part we all tend to support a sense of freedom; be it free-lance, or free-dom of speech, or free-to have my sense of peace walking down the street reasonably unbothered
· None of us really have anything against the “kids” (or “adults”) that do the work itself (of clipboard based solicitation for a cause) nor for the cause or intent itself
o Some of us on the other hand have a bit of a problem with the “saturation” we personally experience in that it impinges on our freedom to politely avoid them because they are in the same spot for extended days on both sides of the street (not unlike the phone calls from unwelcome solicitors that we used to be unable to opt out of, block or simply unplug the phone)
o The decisions on where and when to work (solicit) are no doubt made by someone in a leadership position at “the Grassroots Campaign” over on Front Street – and all I really wanted was my voice to be heard by you and by them – from a data point of one.
· Great minds like Sol and Andrew and Todd came up with and riffed on a beautifully spun way to turn lemons into lemonade – perhaps bringing us closer as a community. A “considerably wild thanks” for an inspiring idea – I wish you all luck in making it happen. (and btw – I know that there are businesses i.e. Surfrider that offer the “downtown business” discount… just because )
· If there were to be an ordinance, my personal wish is that it be with regard to density, not existence. For those that don’t know me, I’m a devout capitalist and there’s nothing wrong with making (earning) money as long as there is a balance of value, courtesy, ethics, … fill in your own appropriate terms here.
· It IS our community and it is our responsibility to step up and say when something IS or ISN’T OK. It was my choice to say how I felt – and I’m happy to see other’s choices actively communicated, regardless of whether those choices agreed with mine. Part of being a “society” is a sense of self-governing, not negligent tolerance. It’s a balance and I although I don’t claim to have the answer, I’m hoping the question proved thought provoking.
Take care,
BC
Steve Terry
From: Bob Cagle <b...@productops.com>
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 24, 2011 4:11:54 PM
Subject: RE: [santacruzgeeks] Had enough of the Santa Cruz street campaigns?
Chip
If I could find a way to just tax Sean?
I love the badge Idea, I'll have something in a week or so. There are
a lot of businesses who offer discounts to "Downtown Employees" and
more will sign up I'm sure.
As for the Canvassers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHU_wyOyYn0
Enjoy
Chip,
(The Tax man)
Downtown Association
On Jun 23, 11:00 am, Sean Tario <sean.ta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Friends,
>
> Sol is onto something that could be extremely powerful. Working the
> political angle will take years and waste far too much more time than
> necessary.
>
> Address this head on, as a community, in a substantive way, and we all win.
>
> I'm willing to bet though that if/once a local badge/card grows into
> something effective and substantial, the downtown association or City
> Council will try to find a way to tax it/us!
>
> Blessings,
>
> Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Yowzer! What a great idea Sol has! That's a way to turn an annoyance into
> an
> > asset where everyone wins! We get relief. The young folks trying to make a
> buck
> > for a good cause won't be wasting their time and burning good will,
> downtowners
> > can get a little extra love. Seems like it might also be a chance to
> integrate
> > disparate programs like Downtown Dollars and these other random business
> promos
> > into something that really rocks for businesses and downtowners! Kind of
> an
> > interface between the biz community and its most important (off season)
> customer
> > segment.
> > S>)
>
> > ________________________________
>
> > At least I would know exactly what I'm funding.
>
> >>Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> >>It's summertime in a down economy. I'm half-tempted to go down there
> myself and
> >>solicit donations for the Buy Chris A New MacBook trust.
>
> >>>Sent from mobile.
>
>
> >>>I can take around 3 per week over the hill on my motorbike. Would take a
> while
> >>>but it's a start. :-)
>
> >>>>Alan
>
> >>>>Sent from my mobile device.
>
> >>>>On Jun 22, 2011, at 17:21, Andrew Mueller <and...@muellerandrew.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>>>Maybe we could hire them all and send them to Palo Alto to solicit
> investments
> >>>>in Santa Cruz Startups :-0
>
> >>>>>I agree the frequency is annoying at best
>
> >>>>>Andrew
>
Todd Schafer
it!!
It was good chatting with you yesterday!! you can thank Sol Lipman
for the awesome idea!!
now lets see if the idea can work!! I think it can!!
Props to everyone for speaking out!!
Let us know if you need any help implementing it Chip!!
Sean Tario
you for your work downtown. We need more people forcing us to laugh
at the paradox that is downtown Santa Cruz.
... and thank you Bob for throwing this on the table and providing the
summary of the conversation. Very good/constructive conversation we
all just had eh?
Speaking of taxes though, have any of the local papers done a study
recently on the cost of doing business in Santa Cruz vs. other local
cities like Capitola/Scotts Valley or even over the hill like Mountain
View/Los Gatos/Palo Alto/San Jose? Anyone know were/how we can dig up
all this data if not? It's a topic I've had numerous conversations
with many of you about... but I'm yet to see/find any hard data on the
topic. Having this though would either:
-Quite those who feel they're overly taxed having a business downtown.
or
-Open the dialogue around why there are so many different business
taxes in Santa Cruz and how this effects the broader Economic
Development efforts of the Downtown Association and the City/County
Economic Development Organizations.
Has the City Council or City Economic Development Organization done this yet?
Sean