Geek Friendly Cafe

[Andrew]

My favorite Santa Cruz Cafe, Lulu at the Octagon implemented some new
"Geek Unfriendly" Policies. Last week they decided to shut off the
power to the electrical outlets to limit the amount of time that
people could stay and use their computers. While I am sure it has
little effect on those with energy efficient processors or bigger
batteries, this is particularly painful for me as my computer battery
last only about an hour in power saver mode.

As a result I need to find a new "Geek Friendly" Cafe to work
from...Any suggestions?

[SaraPM]

Andrew,

Well, aside from the $10 day pass at NextSpace, you might want to
check out The Abbey at 350 Mission St.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/the-abbey-santa-cruz
http://www.abbeylounge.org/

I went to a meeting there once and it felt like a comfortable place to
hang out. I hear it will get more crowded when UCSC students return.

Sara

[Peter Chester]

Verve is pretty sweet.

---
Sent via iPhone

[Shane Pearlman]

mint in scotts valley
seabright brewery outdoors (they even have plugs) in summer
java junction in seabright

-S

Shane Pearlman
831.345.7033

[gyre2k]

Hi   I'm new here, so before replying to the question, a brief intro: although I have spent most of my life in Santa Cruz, I now live in Elkhorn near Moss Landing, surrounded by horses, llamas, goats, dogs, and a pot-bellied pig (none of which belong to me, except for one dog named Gracie). I have worked in Monterey as a contract editor for 5 or 6 years now. Thinking about starting a public history research consultancy after I finish grad school in Dec. (I'm a rather "old" grad student.)   As for the question, Coffeetopia on Mission St., near Bay View elementary school, as always worked for me. Sometimes Beckman's bakery, also on the Westside. Both are smallish spaces; Coffeetopia is more geek-friendly, although I have successfully brought in my laptop and worked for hours at both. I have also checked out the Abbey. It's a nice, big space with comfy couches and lots of table-space, inside and outside. The barristas seem inexperienced though, and the pastries are kind of eh.   Hope that helps,   Jean   --- On Mon, 9/14/09, SaraPM <sar...@pacbell.net> wrote:

[James Hackett]

There's a full list of Cruzio hotspots here too:

http://www.cruzio.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=291

--James

[Sean Gilligan]

Andrew wrote:
> My favorite Santa Cruz Cafe, Lulu at the Octagon implemented some new
> "Geek Unfriendly" Policies. Last week they decided to shut off the
> power to the electrical outlets to limit the amount of time that
> people could stay and use their computers.

It looks like they only shut off the power on one side, but there is
still power on the side near Front St. I don't know if this was
deliberate or simply because they need an electrician to disable those
outlets without disabling power to something essential.

-- Sean

[Chris Frost]

Also the Abbey, mentioned here, should be up and running as a Cruzio hotspot in about 20 minutes or so from now.

[Andrew Mueller]

They had them all shut off today. Apparently when the one side was on the employee didn't find the correct breaker to shut it off. 

[Nick Sobrak-Seaton]

Is this an actual stated policy of theirs? If so, I don't think I'll
be going back there, as I'm not a fan of such customer-unfriendly
tactics.

Why not just remove all the chairs?

--
Sent from my mobile device

[Robyn McIntyre]

This may have something to do with that discussion last month regarding
cafes that were limiting or eliminating internet access because of "abusers"
- a term which wasn't quite defined, but which I interpreted as someone who
buys nothing or buys one coffee and uses the place for longer than an hour
or so. Coffee Cat, Lulu's and Lulu Carpenter's sister store in Scotts Valley
was requiring a network key last time I went and you could only get it (of
course) from the barista.


The Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off. - Gloria
Steinem

-----Original Message-----
From: santacr...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nick Sobrak-Seaton
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:38 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Geek Friendly Cafe

[James Hackett]

If you haven't already, check out the ongoing discussion in Wallace
Baine's column:
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_13280779?source=most_viewed

All started when Coffee Cat in SV shut off their wireless.

--james

[John Haskey]

On Mon, 14 Sep 2009, Nick Sobrak-Seaton wrote:

>
> Is this an actual stated policy of theirs? If so, I don't think I'll
> be going back there, as I'm not a fan of such customer-unfriendly
> tactics.
>

Here's an article from the Sentinel with some info:

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_13280779

---john.

[Andrew Mueller]

Yes, I spoke with Joe the Manager.  The electricity to outlets are shut off to solve the issue of people hanging out all day.  I can understand this but take issue that they do not communicate changes like this with their customers.  I suggested that they let their customers know that they have a problem with people hanging out all day w/o buying stuff and inviting them to help find a solution.  Simply by communicating this some of the problem may resolve itself.  I would suspect that customers would feel responsible to help solve the problem and feel self conscious if they were abusing the situation (I know that I would).  In fact, I deliberately buy things at times just because I had been their a while.

[Sean Gilligan]

James Hackett wrote:
> If you haven't already, check out the ongoing discussion in Wallace
> Baine's column:
> http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_13280779?source=most_viewed
>
> All started when Coffee Cat in SV shut off their wireless.
>

A well-written article. The situation sounds like a business
opportunity to me. Either for a new wi-fi cafe that's a cross between
what Lulu's Octagon was and NextSpace and/or for someone to come up with
a better business model and charging mechanism for wi-fi usage. A
friend of mine (Frances Cherman, also a Lulu's regular) once suggested
that they put miniature parking meters on the tables.

Seems like a purchase should have some bundled amount of wi-fi time
included and beyond that you pay by the hour. Is there a way of doing
this that isn't intrusive or insulting?

-- Sean

[Andrew Mueller]

yeah, if they start bundling wifi time with purchase, I can start a company buying the leftover wifi time at at discount and reselling it! LOL

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

I understand that Manthri is looking into this in conjunction with
the linemonkey service he's implementing. Clearly something needs to
be done.

Alan

On Sep 14, 2009, at 15:14 , Sean Gilligan wrote:

> Seems like a purchase should have some bundled amount of wi-fi time
> included and beyond that you pay by the hour. Is there a way of doing
> this that isn't intrusive or insulting?

--
Alan Hawrylyshen
a l a n a t p o l y p h a s e d o t c a

[Andrew Mueller]

James and John.  Thanks for the link to Baine's article the comment thread is priceless.

[chris arkenberg]

Would you pay extra for the utility overhead? What about the majority who just want coffee sans internet? Do they pay as well? Or do they go next door to the cheaper coffee?

It's not just a wi-fi issue. It's power usage and opportunity cost of having a table occupied for an extended duration. A net cafe pay-as-you-go model would need to consider how many coffee campers have wireless at home and just like hanging out at the coffee shop. Ie if you put them on a subscription, they might just stay home.

--
chris arkenberg | http://twitter.com/chris23 | http://urbeingrecorded.com/news

[Sean Gilligan]

chris arkenberg wrote:
> Would you pay extra for the utility overhead? What about the majority
> who just want coffee sans internet? Do they pay as well? Or do they go
> next door to the cheaper coffee?
>
> It's not just a wi-fi issue. It's power usage and opportunity cost of
> having a table occupied for an extended duration. A net cafe
> pay-as-you-go model would need to consider how many coffee campers
> have wireless at home and just like hanging out at the coffee shop. Ie
> if you put them on a subscription, they might just stay home.

Not an easy problem. That's what makes it an 'opportunity'. NextSpace
seems to be one very good alternative...

-- Sean

[Andrew Mueller]

I understand and agree with the opportunity cost argument, but just calculated the energy costs of laptop usage and found it to be insignificant ($3.96/month to run your laptop 24hrs a day.) Ten computers running 12 hour a day would cost less than $20 month.

I was told that management wanted to change the atmosphere.

[Peter Chester]

I talked with Manthry a while ago. he was thinking of turning off
internet to prevent people from spending hours there. I told him that
i think he should maintain internet but block power. That way people
will be limited to battery life but will get full benefit of
internet. I don't think it has anything to do with power cost, but
more so to do with people (like me) sitting there for 6+ hours at a
time.

Also, as a side note, he's been fined by OSHA several times for 1000's
of dollars due to power cable trip hazards. Don't know the details on
that, but personally, i'd rather have 2 hours of reliable internet
with my coffee then a power plug. especially if it helps his business
to rotate and be sustainable.

-p

Chaim Peter Chester
Shane & Peter, Inc.
831 345 6341
www.shaneandpeter.com

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

On Sep 14, 2009, at 15:41 , Peter Chester wrote:

> I talked with Manthry a while ago [power outlets, etc]

And Peter it appears you are correct. For those of you who didn't wade
through the sometimes nasty and often hilarious thread of comments,
Manthri posts his own comments part way through:

QUOTE:
I think the interest in this subject speaks to the popularity of both
our coffeehouses and free wireless connectivity. It's worth exploring
the proposition that "the Commons" referenced in this article, rather
than being WiFi bandwidth, availability of power outlets or seating,
is infact the coffeehouse as a community space. Our perspective after
doing this a quarter-century, is that we operate coffeehouses with a
view to creating a space for community to gather. We have only
accidentally become a "WiFi cafe", by virtue of the fact that we
haven't done anything to dispel the notion that we are. Now that we
are doing so, it is understandable that some of our clients are
surprised and upset. For this, I apologize.

Internet use results in a disconnect between the user and ones'
physical surroundings, similar to watching television. No moral
judgement here. I do it too. In a coffeehouse however, this results in
rooms full of solitary people with no connection to the space or the
people around them and has the unfortunate effect of crowding out any
other sort of activity. Which of course is how we come to the
misconception that we are a "WiFi cafe".

While we have always endeavoured to make ourselves available to as
wide a group of people as possible (I'll admit that the folks who
bring up our strict policies about outside food and drink and general
decorum are largely correct. We're sticklers for that stuff, and I'm
always baffled when someone doesn't understand that they shouldn't
bring food and drink to a restaurant), we have also come to the
realization that the use of our space, "the Commons" if you will, is
something of a zero-sum proposition. We can either have rooms full of
laptop users or rooms half-full of folks having a cup of coffee with a
friend. Not both.

We have chosen to return to our roots as a coffeehouse where folks can
come to converse with friends, read books, hold meetings and religious
studys, listen to live music and generally have an experience that
transcends Explorer or - if you're a bit more savvy - Firefox. We
regretfully realize that this means that people who "must" have
Internet access will be unable to use our space, at least for now,
unless they bring in wireless cards or tethering capability. Of
course, on the flip side, it's been nice to see a new clientele who
want something different from a coffeehouse.

Moving beyond the personal issues that manifest themselves in a forum
such as this, I'd like to thank those readers who are offering
constructive solutions to our quandry. I think we've covered most of
that ground over the past 15 years, but we'll continue to revisit it
to see if better solutions present themselves down the road. As things
stand, we're going to leave the WiFi intact downtown and remove all
the power outlets, for obvious reasons. We need to move on from this
right now, however. I'm sure there are ways for us to solve everyone's
connectivity issues, but this really is not our charter. There are
many things we could do to make money. Selling umbrellas and offering/
charging for WiFi access are two of them. We're in neither business.
We're old-style coffeehouse operators who came to this pass by
accident. We were pioneers in offering WiFi when hardly anyone knew
what it was, and we will be pioneers in moving beyond it. We're
comfortable in that space. It's largely been why we operate the
busiest cafes in town.

Regarding WiFi access, as many readers have pointed out, every other
cafe offers it. Getting connected should be easy for anyone whose
purchasing decision is predicated on this, and we respect that.

As for us, we'll add beer and wine, better food selections, and
continue to improve our products and services till we get it right,
and till we rebuild our business to suit our long-term objectives.
That's a better future for us.

Thanks for your time.
END QUOTE.

[Andrew Mueller]

Limiting time by blocking power is an unfair solution in that it gives preference to those with power efficient processors and larger batteries.  Many folks with some Macs and large batteries can still work 4, 6 or more hours.  What about students who studying for hours and hours at a time.  A true equitable and fair solution would need to be based on limiting "table time" based on purchase event regardless of the activity a patron takes part in.

[Nick Sobrak-Seaton]

I definitely see the reason behind it. I'm not a fan of the 6-hour
crew myself, as it makes it hard to find tables sometimes.

However, it does seem like there's got to be a more elegant solution
somewhere that doesn't end up looking like an 'up-yours' to customers
who want to use their advertised free wifi for a reasonable amount of
time.

[Chris]

I used to go to Lulu’s a good deal in the evenings to read, sketch ideas, meet peeps, and if all else failed stare at the ceiling and dream, but gave up the habit two or three years back when I could never find space. I like using my laptop in a café as much as anyone, but too many people sit there for hours with an empty coffee cup beside them. Removing the internet squatters will free the space to be the way it was: full of talk, with a reasonable turnover of people and a table or two being freed up every few minutes.

 

- Chris

 

Chris Yonge, Principal
Studio Cruz

www.studiocruz.com

Design, Technical Animation, 3D Visualization

ch...@studiocruz.com

studio and mailing address:
227 Morrissey Boulevard
Santa Cruz, CA 95062
meeting and presentation space:
101 Cooper Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060

studio 831 458 2752
cell 831 251 3401
www.studiocruz.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: santacr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter Chester
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:41 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Geek Friendly Cafe

 

 

I talked with Manthry a while ago.  he was thinking of turning off 

[James Lafferty]

Seems to me that what's most offensive is that Lulu's (and Coffee Cat)
seem to have implemented their anti-squatting policies without letting
folks know up front. I'm really sympathetic with Manthri's position.
However, when you provide a service for an extended time and then choose
not to... well, that's your right, but it definitely also seems fair
that you should post the new policy prominently-- fair, and also a
better marketing strategy.

J.

Chris wrote:
>
> I used to go to Lulu’s a good deal in the evenings to read, sketch
> ideas, meet peeps, and if all else failed stare at the ceiling and
> dream, but gave up the habit two or three years back when I could
> never find space. I like using my laptop in a café as much as anyone,
> but too many people sit there for hours with an empty coffee cup
> beside them. Removing the internet squatters will free the space to be
> the way it was: full of talk, with a reasonable turnover of people and
> a table or two being freed up every few minutes.
>
> - Chris
>
> Chris Yonge, Principal
> Studio Cruz
>

> /www.studiocruz.com <http://www.studiocruz.com/>/

>
> Design, Technical Animation, 3D Visualization
>

> ch...@studiocruz.com <mailto:ch...@studiocruz.com>

>
> studio and mailing address:
> 227 Morrissey Boulevard
> Santa Cruz, CA 95062
> meeting and presentation space:
> 101 Cooper Street
> Santa Cruz, CA 95060
>
> studio 831 458 2752
> cell 831 251 3401

> www.studiocruz.com <http://www.studiocruz.com>

[Ruby Anaya]

Cheers to that. Regardless of minimal power usage, I don't remember them advertising "free wifi AND free electricity"

It'd be nice to go there and be able to sit down and enjoy my coffee. Plus, if people are using it for internet for more than 1-2 hours, they should just get a pass at NS or cafe hop. 

Just my two cents,

Rubes

[Nadine Schaeffer]

Now if only NextSpace had an espresso machine .... (hint hint).

- Nadine

[Chris]

… you’d get all these geeks hanging out in the place for days on end, glued to their laptops. It’d never work.

Chris Yonge
Principal
Studio Cruz
office: 101 Cooper Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
studio: 227 Morrissey Boulevard
Santa Cruz, CA 95062

www.studiocruz.com

studio 831 458 2752
cell 831 251 3401

From: santacr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nadine Schaeffer
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 4:53 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Geek Friendly Cafe

 

Now if only NextSpace had an espresso machine .... (hint hint).

 

- Nadine

 

[Michael Shulman]

You know, the simplest solution would be a sign. Something like:

 

Table fair use policy:

 

Please share table space. You’re welcome to stay for a

short time, but don’t stay all day. It’s just not fair.

 

-ms

 

 

 

From: santacr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Mueller
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 3:49 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Geek Friendly Cafe

 

Limiting time by blocking power is an unfair solution in that it gives preference to those with power efficient processors and larger batteries.  Many folks with some Macs and large batteries can still work 4, 6 or more hours.  What about students who studying for hours and hours at a time.  A true equitable and fair solution would need to be based on limiting "table time" based on purchase event regardless of the activity a patron takes part in.

[Ruby Anaya]

I don't think it gives preference to people with more efficient computers, they are just lucky in this instance :)

I DO think that it gives preference to people who just want to chill out in there w/a cup of coffee, which is who preference should be given to in a Cafe.

I see both sides of this. It does seem a bit rude to suddenly take power away from loyal customers. But, does it not seem rude to complain that you can't sit in Lulu's for more than 2hrs (I'm guessing the average lifespan of most laptops)? I mean, I used to be a student just a year ago, and I used to study at Perg's for a good 5-6 hours at a time, if not from open till close. But, there were times when I walked in and every single table/outlet was taken. That's when I walked on over to our good old public library that no one has seemed to mention in this thread... 

I think that blocking power is just about as unfair to those w/out it as it is to the people who walk in only to turn right around due to no table space. My three cents.

xoxo rubes

[Kurt Overmeyer]

If you need to work and use free wifi, 2nd St. Cafe in Watsonville is a great place.  The coffee and food there is good too!  They won't cut your power or ask you to leave.

Kurt Overmeyer

(510) 333-9753

[Andrew Mueller]

Ruby, are you saying that preference should be given to someone who wants to "chill out in there w/a cup of coffee" over someone who wants to chill out in there w/a cup of coffee and a computer in front of them?

I think that this is a business and that no "paying customer" should be given preference over another "paying customer"! 

I started this thread by asking for a recommendation of "Geek Friendly" cafes and perhaps It was unnecessary for me to have stated why. I guess I did so to set some type of context for "geek friendly".

I fully understand Manthri's predicament.  It is not easy, some computer users are very good customers.  I can easily spend more than $10 dollars in a morning, raved about the Octagon all over the web, and constantly recommend it to friends and acquaintances.  I even buy the coffee I make at home from Lulus and often take my family in for a quick cappucino in the afternoon.  Regardless, I respect Manthri's right as a business owner to have full and unconditional discretion over his business policies even if they negatively affect my habits as a customer and that is why I asked for geek friendly alternatives. 

[Michael Shulman]

Andrew,

 

But if you spend $10 and your there for 3 hours, and you prevent 3 people from each spending their $10 and staying an hour each, then you’re hurting business.

 

Personally, when I bring my laptop to a coffee house, and later I see people come in and all of the tables are full, I’ll get up and give my table to the new customer. For me, when all of the tables are full, it’s time for me to go for a walk.

 

But that’s just me.

 

-ms

 

 

From: santacr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:santacr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Mueller
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 9:23 PM
To: santacr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Geek Friendly Cafe

 

Ruby, are you saying that preference should be given to someone who wants to "chill out in there w/a cup of coffee" over someone who wants to chill out in there w/a cup of coffee and a computer in front of them?

[Chris Miller]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Andrew Mueller <andrewb...@gmail.com> wrote:

Limiting time by blocking power is an unfair solution in that it gives preference to those with power efficient processors and larger batteries.  Many folks with some Macs and large batteries can still work 4, 6 or more hours.  What about students who studying for hours and hours at a time.  A true equitable and fair solution would need to be based on limiting "table time" based on purchase event regardless of the activity a patron takes part in.

The technology has existed for a long time (~5 years) to limit usage based on time. The issue is providing an easy to use system to provide one use codes to the barista. Several SAAS companies provide this service already, it's consists of a captive portal on the wifi router that forces the person to login through a web page. A Radius server on the backend maintains the codes/passwords and instructs the captive portal to shut them down after <n> minutes of usage.

Unfortunately when people squat at cafes/restaurants it can significantly impact their and/or their worker's bottom line. For example, a waiter at a restaurant may only be assigned a few tables for their shift. If some <asshole> sits at the table and buys one beverage and sits there for hours (seen it happen many times at my friend's restaurant), the waiter gets screwed out of a percentage of their tips which typically represent 50% of their wages. It's a real problem and it's sad that members of the public feel a sense of entitlement to services without paying their fair share.

Given the lack of real estate at most coffee shops, it seems 30-60 minutes of usage is quite reasonable for a single cup of coffee. Yeah I know, I hate paying by the hour for internet access too, particularly when the connection costs them a small amount, however the costs are elsewhere in the business model.

Chris

[Andrew Mueller]

All true, I waited tables the entire time I was putting myself through college and tips represented 80% of my wages!  Like I said even though I would applaud a policy that limited "table time" based on purchase event, I fully respect the owners right to set his policies as he sees fit. 

One interesting and somewhat amusing point to note is that there is a power outlet at every table and this is very rare for a cafe. One could reasonably conclude that the intention of that design was to provide power for computers. It is rare that a customer would bring any other device to a cafe that requires wall power.  In essence the design has attracted a certain crowd that benefits from the feature. This crowd helped build the cafes business and spread the word. In essence the original intent is now part of what creates the problem.  

I've been going to cafes for a long time, way before wifi existed. Good comfortable cafes tend to attract visitors who stay a long time.  This is the nature of west coast coffee culture especially in a university town.  

[John Brewer]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Andrew <andrewb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My favorite Santa Cruz Cafe, Lulu at the Octagon implemented some new
> "Geek Unfriendly" Policies.  Last week they decided to shut off the
> power to the electrical outlets to limit the amount of time that
> people could stay and use their computers.

This is actually a widespread phenomenon. The Wall Street Journal ran
an article on it last month:

No More Perks: Coffee Shops Pull the Plug on Laptop Users
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html

That article speculates that the recession is leading to unemployed
people using the coffee shop as an office substitute, with increased
camping, and decreased spending.

> While I am sure it has
> little effect on those with energy efficient processors or bigger
> batteries, this is particularly painful for me as my computer battery
> last only about an hour in power saver mode.

If your laptop is over a year old, consider treating yourself to a new
battery. It's possible for laptop battery to lose half its capacity
in a little over a year, if it is subject to constant charge/discharge
cycles.

--
John Brewer

[bartt]

My favority cafe in Santa Cruz --The Ugly Mug in Soquel, has addressed
this very issue quite nicely. Like Lulu it has become an Internet cafe
for many. Often people including myself would work for hours at the
Ugly Mug. Broadband isn't as prevalent in the hills above Soquel as in
town. For several laptop users the Ugly Mug was their access to
broadband Internet.

Like Lulu, the Ugly Mug provides outlet at many of its tables and the
contingent of laptop patrons is a substantial percentage of its
business. The workers that spend several hours give the cafe an
occupied appearance during the slow hours in between the rushes.

To maintain a balance between the needs of the laptop crowd and other
community activities like reading, meeting, live music and studying,
the Ugly Mug has divided the cafe in 2 areas: tables with outlets on
the walls and a more casual area of couges around a coffee table where
no computers are allowed.

The Ugly Mug also has signs near the power outlets requesting laptop
users to purchase food/drink for a certain amount per hour. These
signs were posted without any changes to access to the Wifi or power.
The Ugly Mug appeals to the consiousness of their patrons.

I can't recommend the Ugly Mug enough. Their coffee is great. The
atmosfeer open, relaxed and divers. And they are very considerate of
the needs/wants of their regulars.

On Sep 15, 2:50 am, John Brewer <jbre...@jera.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Andrew <andrewbmuel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > My favorite Santa Cruz Cafe, Lulu at the Octagon implemented some new
> > "Geek Unfriendly" Policies.  Last week they decided to shut off the
> > power to the electrical outlets to limit the amount of time that
> > people could stay and use their computers.
>
> This is actually a widespread phenomenon.  The Wall Street Journal ran
> an article on it last month:
>

> No More Perks: Coffee Shops Pull the Plug on Laptop Usershttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB124950421033208823.html

[Peter Chester]

Firefly cafe is a decent one too.

---
Sent via iPhone

[Karsten Wade]

On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Ruby Anaya <ru...@parachutecreative.com> wrote:

> But, does it not seem rude to complain that you
> can't sit in Lulu's for more than 2hrs (I'm guessing the average lifespan of
> most laptops)?

Perhaps my own usage pattern is more unusual, but any lack of AC puts
a cramp in my style. I solved the free wifi problem by going with a
mobile broadband solution now. So, for the most part, I can skip the
cafe wireless if it has problems or is restrictive. But the lack of
power is crucial. I may go by a cafe for just an hour or so in the
midst of a day where I am working 4+ hours away from reliable power.
Having to draw on my battery when there *should* be power is a PITA.
I often hit a cafe for less than an hour, but gravitate toward places
that have easy to obtain power.

Another person mentioned that the Octagon is clearly designed with
laptop users in mind. Small tables barely big enough for two with
multiple power outlets at reach. I don't know Lulu's problems with
OSHA, but I do know that each location has had outlets that should
have been fined ...

I guess I agree most closely with Andrew. I agree that Manthri has
the right to change his business model. He is doing it by dissing his
long time customers who have grown his business. I wish him luck with
that model, other businesses haven't done as well with such actions.
I think he would have done better if he had engaged with his customers
for solutions. Myself, I'll likely take my business elsewhere, with
the rare exception of when my family wants to be there.

I thought the idea of forcing customers to bother busy baristas for
wifi passwords was stupid. Also, consider that the Octagon (for
example) always seems to have a line, etc. I'm wondering how much of
the problem is perception? It *feels* as if there is a problem, all
these people you see for hours, etc. Is it really a problem? I guess
they'll find out now ...

BTW, I'll note that in addition to the libarary (not a food-friendly
location), the City Hall across the street also has free wireless. I
work from there with my girls sometimes, them working on their
homeschoolwork or just climbing trees. (An example of when I have no
power and why I want to save my batteries when at a cafe.)

More geek friendly cafes - Firefly, SubRosa (at The Hub - Pacific &
Spruce), Pergolesi, West Side Coffee Co. (Mission & Almar). I tired
Bad Ass Coffee on Pacific one time; looks like there is a Java
Junction on River by Hwy 1. Myself, I'll probably hit Firefly more
often now -- I would rather give them my business and hope they are
able to keep open. Spread the word and spread the dollars. :)

- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade -- gpg key : AD0E0C41 -- http://iquaid.org
------------------------------------------------------------------
Next underground restaurant
-:- Stay tuned ... -:-
http://Fairy-TaleFarm.com
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[Shane Pearlman]

hey alan - thanks for pointing that out - I had stopped reading

-S

Shane Pearlman
831.345.7033

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

NP
A

[Jason Wehmhoener]

Alan, thanks for that. 

I feel this is an extremely mature and intelligent response, and I respect Manthri for that, as well as for the clarity of vision with which he is pursuing his goals.

-Jason

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

On 2009/10/26, at 12:49 , Jason Wehmhoener wrote:

Alan, thanks for that. 

I feel this is an extremely mature and intelligent response, and I respect Manthri for that, as well as for the clarity of vision with which he is pursuing his goals.

Ultimately; that's where it ends up for me too.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like free wifi -- as stated earlier, I think most of us are very conscientious to avoid leeching or at least avoid adversely impacting the bottom line of the businesses where we use these privileges, but for many -- that isn't true. If I were the business owner/operator, I would also have to ask how to improve my business while maintaining the 'new commons'.

Then Starbucks CEO (name escapes me) in 1999 made a big deal about the loss of public spaces and how corporations (like bookstores, cafes and for-profit parks) were taking the place of the old commons. (and of course how Starbucks really wanted to be part of the 'new commons')  This is a slippery and dicey place to be, afterall, we want to be able to gather and enjoy our rights and freedoms, but when the space in which we gather is private instead of public the rules are very different and frankly at odds with what many of us would expect them to be.

This is likely enough out of me on this topic; but it is a difficult decision for Manthri (and all business owners) and if I wear a business owner's hat long enough to get past the fact that I don't personally like the decision; it makes a lot more sense to me.

Thanks for digging that up Shane;

Alan

PS: I like how my spell checker highlights Starbucks in red. Worth a smile.