And don't get me started on overseas vs. US. I was working for a company -
getting rave reviews. That changed 2 years ago when the division manager
changed. He was from India, and promptly fired all the US programmers and
moved it to India, employing his relatives instead. I've heard that he
division has since collapsed.
Hell, yes, I'm bitter...........and barely surviving. Anybody got a job
available? I'm a hard worker.....
On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 12:33 PM, <santacruzgeeks@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Today's Topic Summary
> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/santacruzgeeks/topics
> - Blueseed proposed "startup community"<#137ec7c113fb6506_group_thread_0>[14 Updates]
> Blueseed proposed "startup community"<http://groups.google.com/group/santacruzgeeks/t/45d209bfee6733a2>
> Meadhbh Hamrick <ohmead...@gmail.com> Jun 13 02:22PM -0700
> yes. but why is it understandable?
> instead of paying $1600/mo. for a berth on a boat, you could spend it
> on airfare from wherever you are outside the US. plus, you have a
> chance of recruiting people to help you with your startup. and when
> you want to fly into sili valley, you can still fly into sili valley.
> 'cause... remember... in order to get a business / tourist visa to the
> US, you have to demonstrate you have a domicile you'll be returning to
> after your visit. and i can guarantee you if you mention "i live on a
> floating platform just off the US border" during your application
> process, you will not get the visa.
> -cheers
> -m
> --
> meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
> @OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMead...@gmail.com
> Margaret Rosas <marga...@productops.com> Jun 13 02:36PM -0700
> This thread led to some interesting reading
> http://www.quora.com/Blueseed/Are-there-any-interim-solutions-to-Blue...
> and a video compliments of the Blueseed CEO
> http://youtu.be/FLCYfhZEFb8
> <rant>Personally, I have a heart-felt conviction that we need to build
> better onramps to entrepreneurship **locally** ... which is why I do
> what I
> do.
> Every time I see articles about Blueseed crop up I get all annoyed
> because
> I imagine that kind of money being invested in say ... Santa Cruz
> instead
> of a ship that feels like something trying to duplicate the
> bromance/frat
> house/silicon valley ickiness that I don't care for.
> I imagine that we (Santa Cruz) would generate an amazing crop of
> startups
> that would make the world a better place. I think it's deep in our
> culture
> here to create valuable, sustainable, ethical businesses. Those
> businesses
> come from a place where we value our quality of life, the food we eat
> and
> preserving the planet. It came across in the last round of TechRaising
> projects loud and clear -- folks asked if we set a "sustainable" theme
> (which we did not but I think it comes from the Santa Cruz values). I
> think
> with a couple 3 or 30 million we could do amazing things. And perhaps
> things even more amazing than a D-League basketball team ... but I
> digress.</rant>
> --
> productOps
> Margaret Rosas
> Architect and Community Evangelist
> http://twitter.com/mrosas
> Sean Tario <sean.ta...@gmail.com> Jun 13 04:02PM -0700
> Margaret,
> I agree. Santa Cruz COULD be a hotbed for startup activity. There are
> in
> fact a few very quiet "incubators" that are here, down the Bay, and in
> the
> mountains with very innovative ideas blossoming. They are ALL funded
> by 1
> or 2 folks who have hit home runs in the past (solving the smart money
> problem Santa Cruz as a whole faces) and they are ALL struggling to
> attract
> and retain top talent across all disciplines, including engineering of
> all
> flavors.
> After unsuccessfully trying to pool the local smart money together in
> town,
> I came to the realization that it would be far easier and more
> enjoyable
> for me to simply step up and hit my own home runs.
> The folks at Nextspace for example are successfully executing their
> business plan and hitting some solid doubles and triples with a homerun
> looming for it's investors and managers I would image in the next few
> years. They are also providing a solid platform for those who simply
> need
> somewhere to kick start things. Same with Cruzio's new space and
> Satellite. None of which existed 4 years ago as they do today.
> We need more people here stepping up to the plate now, who are scrappy
> enough to make something happen despite the real barriers this
> community
> presents startups however. Hats off to those of you doing just this,
> thinking big, and executing.
> Ideally, in a few years, with the stage set, when a few of us have
> successfully succeeded despite the current barriers, we can take the
> next
> leap and start engaging and actively SEEDING local companies as some
> already have and actively are. Ideally, those who are already
> successful
> will continue to hit a few more home runs that are rooted here in the
> Monterey Bay and Santa Cruz County.
> Ideally those sitting on the sidelines will start to take notice and a
> tipping point can occur within the collective mindshare of this
> community.
> Nutshell, let us be the change we hope to see in this world and IN OUR
> COMMUNITY. We all play a different part and role in this process, but
> as we
> are seeing, this is a process... a LONG and HARD process.
> Again, my heart goes out and my hat is off to those right now doing,
> making
> manifest, fighting the good fight and keeping hope alive. Stay strong.
> Real
> change is happening.
> Blessings,
> Sean
> Dan Dascalescu <d...@blueseed.co> Jun 13 11:14PM -0700
> Hey everyone,
> My name is Dan Dascalescu and I'm Blueseed CIO. I found this thread
> via our
> alerting system, and wanted to help offer some information about what
> we're
> trying to achieve.
> First off, I should start by saying that I live about an hour's away
> from
> Santa Cruz, and love coming to the city every so often. The beach, the
> boardwalk, the atmosphere (esp. on the 4th of July!) are awesome.
> So about Blueseed -
> 1. The problem we're trying to solve is that foreign entrepreneurs who
> want
> to start companies and create jobs here, don't have a visa to do so.
> At the
> same time, the US has a "Diversity Immigrant Visa<
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa>"
> that gives away 55,000 green cards (not just work visas, full-blown
> green
> cards!) per year to essentially random people (about the only
> meaningful
> requirement is to have graduated from high school). But at the same
> time,
> the US doesn't let startup entrepreneurs create companies, bring money
> in
> the country, and hire American. "This is madness", as Google's Eric
> Schmidt
> says in this video <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJgw62intI#t=5m24s
> >:
> *Of all the crazy rules in our government, the craziest of all, bar
> none,
> > is that we take the smartest people in the world, we bring them to
> America,
> > we give them PhDs in technical sciences, and we KICK THEM OUT, to go
> found
> > great companies outside of America. This is madness.*
> A friend of mine who created a startup company that hired nine
> Americans,
> was hit by this silliness. You can see his story on Diane Sawyer's
> show on
> ABC news <http://abcn.ws/Aharoni>. The founder of India's Groupon,
> Kunal
> Bahl, was also kicked out after graduating from Wharton<
> http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2011-05-10-tech-talents-leave-silic...>.
> Now, his company is growing furiously<
> http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-06-14/news/29656986...>,
> in India.
> 2. The press does sometimes misunderstand what we're trying to do, and
> labels us a "floating sweatshop". There will be *no chance in hell*
> for
> that to happen, for a lot of reasons:
> - If we had an unscrupulous business model, we'd find it impossible to
> raise the capital necessary to launch the project (~$60M).
> - Since a floating IT shop requires a constant supply of goods from
> mainland
> (food, water, fuel, Internet connectivity etc.), we'd be faced with a
> blockade pronto if we did something fishy.
> - Unlike, say, textile or manufacturing sweatshops, IT shops by their
> nature
> have a vastly easier way of communicating with the outside world and
> attracting media attention towards any form of exploitation. Their
> customers
> in turn will not want to be seen as partnering with a sweatshop. In
> short, it would be PR suicide for us to even think about that.
> - It would be extremely hard to convince any IT people to get on a
> boat
> and work for peanuts. IT workers are the last people who can be
> exploitable
> due to the fact that they possess a skill that relatively very few
> people
> do. That means they are free to choose where they go because their
> skills
> are in demand.
> 3. Yes, there is a cap on the number of H-1B work visas for skilled
> employees (65,000 per year). But that's not the point. Blueseed is a
> ship
> for startup entrepreneurs. And there simply are no US visas for
> startups
> entrepreneurs. At all. See this video<
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLCYfhZEFb8#t=195s>by the American
> Immigration Lawyers Association.
> 4. Everyone will pay taxes. This is clearly detailed in our
> FAQ, www.blueseed.co/faq.html#taxes
> 5. Workers on any ship are protected by international labor standards
> -
> http://www.ilo.org
> 6. Fixing the visa process has been tried for years. Nothing worked.
> Here
> are some of the bills that are still waiting to be passed, with their
> passing chances:
> #startupvisa http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1114 - 0%;
> Startup Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1965 - 2%;
> IDEA Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr2161 - 3%
> I hope this answers the main points raised in the thread. For other
> questions, I'd be happy to help clarify.
> As always, information straight from the horse's mouth is best. For
> those
> who are genuinely interested in the project and want be correctly
> informed
> about it, there are two great resources:
> - Blueseed: visa-free startup incubator on a ship half an hour from
> Silicon Valley<
> http://www.slideshare.net/Blueseed/blueseed-visafree-startup-incubato...>
> -
> our quick Powerpoint presentation
> - http://blueseed.co/faq.html - our FAQ
> Hope this helps,
> Dan
> Chris Miller <ctod...@gmail.com> Jun 13 11:28PM -0700
> Hmmm. Ummm. Hmm. I think the real issue here is that entrepreneurs
> need to
> "invest" in local talent. The schools (via budget cuts) are failing the
> students, and companies are effectively selling out (us) to exploit
> foreign
> born folks who come with a higher education at a low price. Is that a
> fair
> statement?
> I've been working with a group of local students whom are very
> motivated to
> learn and to accomplish, it just takes some business organization and a
> little effort. My company has not hit any home runs yet, but we have
> created jobs, and we have built a great crew that is in itself has
> become a
> self supporting team.
> I don't blame anyone for seeking the American Dream, but I do think
> there
> is a corporate responsibility to be part of the solution here at home.
> Just
> sayin...
> Chris
> Alan Hawrylyshen <a...@polyphase.ca> Jun 14 09:00AM +0200
> The L1 visa category has complex restrictions that make it appropriate
> for transfers of talented technical staff or executive/manager types to the
> US offices of an established pan-national entity with offices in the US.
> You must have been employed by the pan-national entity for more than a year
> abroad - every day you spend in the US counts against the year, therefore
> in practice you need to have been employed in the role for 1year plus
> #-of-weeks-of-visits-to-US prior to qualifying. IANAL but the L1 status is
> hard to leverage in a small scale startup environment. These restrictions
> are a contributing factor to the lack of cap.
> Alan
> (formerly of L-1A status) :)
> Sent from my mobile device.
> "Reesa Abrams" <reesa_abr...@sbcglobal.net> Jun 14 07:42AM -0700
> Good statements Chris
> If companies think of their standard processes as steps in a good
> certification process for employees and managers and can work with
> other
> companies in academic industrial consortia that exist today on most
> campuses
> including on the Hill to developing ongoing professional standards we
> can
> start developing high quality workers who are ready to take their job
> when
> they graduate instead of the 18 months or longer (private school
> students
> take longer) to adjust to a real work environment
> That is what I did as industrial visitor @ Stanford and what we are
> trying
> to do with TC3
> Then we will not have the crises that have been caused by LEEDS
> Reesa Abrams
> COO TechCycle3
> 408 512 7217
> www.techcycle3.com
> reesa.abr...@techcycle3.com
> Environmentally Sound
> Computer Recycling
> TC3_logo_full_New
> From: santacruzgeeks@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:santacruzgeeks@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Chris Miller
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:29 PM
> To: santacruzgeeks@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Blueseed proposed "startup community"
> Hmmm. Ummm. Hmm. I think the real issue here is that entrepreneurs
> need to
> "invest" in local talent. The schools (via budget cuts) are failing the
> students, and companies are effectively selling out (us) to exploit
> foreign
> born folks who come with a higher education at a low price. Is that a
> fair
> statement?
> I've been working with a group of local students whom are very
> motivated to
> learn and to accomplish, it just takes some business organization and a
> little effort. My company has not hit any home runs yet, but we have
> created
> jobs, and we have built a great crew that is in itself has become a
> self
> supporting team.
> I don't blame anyone for seeking the American Dream, but I do think
> there is
> a corporate responsibility to be part of the solution here at home.
> Just
> sayin...
> Chris
> --
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> Meadhbh Hamrick <ohmead...@gmail.com> Jun 14 08:27AM -0700
> dan.
> how does blueseed address the problem of "people want to start
> companies in silicon valley but can't due to visa problems?"
> i don't get it.
> i can't get a tourist / business visa unless i have a domicile in
> another country, so the blueseed raft can't be my registered domicile
> for the visa process. (though you could probably solve that pretty
> easy by making a deal where you get an official domicile in costa rica
> when you sign up for space on the boat.)
> the ilo does not have enforcement capability. it uses existing states
> to enforce its recommendations (and... honestly... it doesn't do
> _that_ great of a job.) though honestly, yes, it does seem like
> business forces will do a MUCH better job than international
> agreements to encourage sane working conditions.
> where are you going to park your boat? inside the EEZ or CZ? expect a
> visit from the coast guard and/or navy if/when NOAA and/or EPA get a
> wild hair up their collective arses.
> -cheers
> -m
> --
> meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
> @OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMead...@gmail.com
> Kurt Overmeyer <kto1...@mac.com> Jun 14 08:39AM -0700
> So why not just use the EB-5 program? Watsomville should soon have a
> regional center and we are just as close as the raft. Heck - I bet with
> that 60 mil you could develop your own business park!
> Sent from my iPhone
> Andrew Mueller <andrewbmuel...@gmail.com> Jun 14 09:36AM -0700
> The problem that BlueSeed solves is that it makes it easy for
> investors to visit, interact with, and get to know startups that are
> otherwise very difficult for them to go visit. Those who may receive
> investment may have the possibility of incorporating stateside.
> BlueSeed is also a place where investors could "check out" talent that
> they can match with the needs of their current portfolio companies and
> perhaps work to get them visas or recruit to work remotely with their
> portfolio companies.
> I tend to want to give this the benefit of the doubt and rather than
> speculating about what this really is and ranting about its merits or
> lack there of, why not assume that it will become reality, the reality
> is honorable, and explore how Santa Cruz can benefit from this
> reality.
> Just like the VCs and other investors want to attract the talent,
> Santa Cruz wants to attract that talent. What could we do to make
> Santa Cruz be prime location that entrepreneurs aboard BlueSeed (or
> from any place else for that matter) would want to make their homes
> and the headquarters of their businesses?
> Sent from mobile device. Please excuse any voice to text transcription
> weirdness.
> Jason Wehmhoener <jason...@gmail.com> Jun 14 09:38AM -0700
> Kurt, can you tell us more about EB-5? First I've heard of it.
> -Jason
> Steve Terry <sterry...@yahoo.com> Jun 14 10:38AM -0700
> I haven't the legal expertise to address concerns raised in this
> thread. My assumption is that those issues, being conditional to the
> funding of this enterprise, have been dealt with by the Blueseed team.
> For that reason, I think Andrew speaks well to the opportunity that
> Blueseed represents to Santa Cruz tech and the local economy in which we
> all have a stake. I say, good luck and welcome. I also think that the
> radical approach that Blueseed tries here is worth exploring. We'll see how
> well it floats!
> S>)
> Meadhbh Hamrick <ohmead...@gmail.com> Jun 14 10:49AM -0700
> call me a liberal, but i have a problem with what's effectively a
> cruise ship anchored in the monterey bay marine preserve.
> which is odd, since i always thought i was immune to NIMBYism.
> outside the CZ & marine preserve borders, i have less of a problem
> with the idea. but that would lengthen the time it takes to get to
> boat by launch. so... i'm still not convinced. (which is odd, since i
> generally like the idea of sea-steading.)
> --
> meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
> @OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMead...@gmail.com
> Nadine Schaeffer <cloudfor...@gmail.com> Jun 14 11:03AM -0700
> Meadhbh, I was wondering the same thing.
> Dan, could you let us know how Blueseed is planning to manage
> environmental
> concerns? The Monterey Bay Marine Preserve area forbids cruise ships
> to the
> best of my knowledge, specifically because of pollution and other
> environmental concerns.
> I personally was thinking about this, because long long ago, I lived
> on a
> houseboat on the Seine in a little community of boats, and the net
> results
> was that the water of the Seine was NASTY. We used to joke that the
> river
> water quality was why no one could ever get too drunk on our boat - you
> wouldn't survive if you fell off.
> I don't think much lives in the Seine anymore, but the bounty of life
> in
> the Monterey Bay is a great and wondrous thing worthy of concern and
> protection.
> Best,
> --
> Nadine Schaeffer
> cloudfor...@gmail.com
> www.cloudforestdesign.com
> 831.600.8929 (office)
> 831.588.4509 (mobile)
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