Blueseed proposed "startup community"

[Forest Monsen]

A ship anchored half an hour from Silicon Valley, where workers
without visas can slave away:
http://www.blueseed.co/quick-facts.html

[chris arkenberg]

Wow! It's like Nextspace but in a boat! Out at sea! Beyond state-run emergency support! With a single shared satt pipe! Staring at a screen below deck in high seas! The Glamour! The Adventure! The Nausea! The Nerd Scurvy!!!

sent from mobile

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[Meadhbh Hamrick]

so wait. what's the problem they're trying to solve?

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

[chris arkenberg]

"It's hard to get work visas in America."

--
chris arkenberg | http://twitter.com/chris23 | http://urbeingrecorded.com

[chris arkenberg]

Also: "In most Silicon Valley workplaces it's illegal to marry
livestock, gamble on cock-fighting, re-broadcast Major League Baseball
without express written permission, etc..."

[Jason Wehmhoener]

"It's hard to get work visas in America, and that gives Peter Thiel an opportunity to create his own cruise-ship sized state just offshore."

Here's hoping it doesn't devolve into some advanced form of indentured servitude. That being said, I imagine quite a few geeks wouldn't mind spending some time in the kingdom of Peter Thiel.

-Jason

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM, chris arkenberg <chrisar...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

but how does this solve the "it's hard to get work visas in America" problem?

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 11:48 AM, chris arkenberg
<chrisar...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Jason Wehmhoener]

The boat is a sovereign nation, not required to follow US laws. It also happens to be anchored close enough to make travel to the Valley reasonable, but far enough away to be in international waters.

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

i'm pretty sure this will devolve into some bizarre mashup of
stephenson's rife's raft and l. ron hubbards final years aboard the
apollo.

and if you want to hang out with peter thiel, why not just go hang out
with peter thiel instead of paying A LOT of cash to live on a boat run
by an organization whose head once had a relationship w/ thiel?

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

[Jason Wehmhoener]

you got me. I think it's a terrible idea.

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

yes. but if the problem is "it's hard to get a work visa in the US,"
it doesn't matter how close you are to the US, you're still not
getting a work visa.

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

[Jason Wehmhoener]

The whole point is not getting a work visa. Which should raise a red flag for people. Unfortunately it probably won't.

-j

[John Haskey]

They believe that it is important for a start-up to be close to Silicon
Valley. They're providing a platform in close proximity where someone can
work without a visa.

---john.

[chris arkenberg]

They see the Visa process as a hindrance to drawing good global talent together. A legitimate point but the framing has the scent of anarcho-capitalism imho. Or maybe that's just the smell of bilge water and geek sweat...

sent from mobile

[Jason Wehmhoener]

It's a crude hack that with ambitions to monopolize a scarce resource. A far more effective (but less competitive) approach would be to fix the broken visa process.

-j

[The Spoon]

so wait. what's the problem they're trying to solve?

Standards for working conditions and wage.

W.

--

Spoon Industries

Premier Purveyor of Mystery and Mischief since 1966
Santa Cruz, California
www.thespoon.com/art

[The Spoon]

Anarcho-capitalism* doesn't really exist.  It's called libertarianism.  The claims of so-called anarcho-capitalists notwithstanding. 

W.

* That's like saying Christian-Satanism.  These are two things in unalterable opposition.  I mean, unless you haven't considered that capitalism (not just small-scale trade or barter), requires a state apparatus to enforce contracts, etc.

[Rob Knight]

Serious question. I've heard there is a visa-related employee supply problem in the tech industry. Can anyone point to some numbers or published data that quantifies the problem?

"Look at all the open ads on Craigslist" is all I've heard to date. I'm not insinuating the problem doesn't exist. I'd just like to see it objectively presented somewhere such that "creatively" skirting US labor laws is the only viable option.

[Jason Wehmhoener]

I'll dig around for some numbers, but anecdotally, as of 1999-2000 I worked with a large number of H1B folks. That stopped in 2000. 

History of H1B:

http://www.zazona.com/shameh1b/h1bhistory.htm

Here's an old editorial that has a few numbers and some commentary:

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071017_303173.htm

I definitely witnessed H1B abuses during the H1B peak, but I've also seen several situations since the clamp down where talented people and a potential employer sincerely wanted to connect, at terms favorable to the candidate, and simply couldn't find any way to do so, thanks to the visa situation. A small percentage of those situations were resolved by allowing people to work remotely. 

I guess I'm wondering how you'd like the problem to be quantified? There is a non-zero sum of folks that want to work here, folks that want to hire them, and no visas available to make it possible.

-Jason

[Mike Xu]

Here's some historical data on H1Bs in the past:

http://www.happyschoolsblog.com/h1b-visa-cap-usage-1992-to-2010/

[Mike Xu]

From 2009-2012 the quota cap also is completely filled up one month earlier and earlier each year.  For 2013 it was reached 2 days ago (earliest ever).

[Rob Knight]

Thank you Jason and Mike for the links. Mike, that is exactly what I was looking for: some kind of demand vs. fulfillment comparison.

I'm assuming that cap is for the entire country. That seems quite low and definitely makes Blueseed's idea--while ethically questionable and rather distasteful--understandable. I'd like to think there is a better way to deal with the H1B situation that to park a boat offshore and thumb your nose at US labor law.

Not to mention the implied notion that the only way to start a company is to be in close proximity to SV.

[Mike Xu]

There's also an L1 visa which is for managers/executives/co-founders(who's companies are originated/incorporated in US).  They issued 90k of them in 2010 and there is no cap.

I learned about sea steaders from Sean Gilligan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

They've been trying to do it for the last decade, but it's main goal was to avoid to paying income tax while enjoying proximity with their national origin:

http://gramlich.net/projects/oceania/seastead1.html

http://www.seasteading.org

[chris arkenberg]

And, of course, Sealand: http://www.sealandgov.org/

[Mike Xu]

For 29.99 you too can become the Baron of the Northwest Corner of the Helipad.  Comes with a mug and tshirt!

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

yes. but why is it understandable?

instead of paying $1600/mo. for a berth on a boat, you could spend it
on airfare from wherever you are outside the US. plus, you have a
chance of recruiting people to help you with your startup. and when
you want to fly into sili valley, you can still fly into sili valley.

'cause... remember... in order to get a business / tourist visa to the
US, you have to demonstrate you have a domicile you'll be returning to
after your visit. and i can guarantee you if you mention "i live on a
floating platform just off the US border" during your application
process, you will not get the visa.

-cheers
-m

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

[Margaret Rosas]

This thread led to some interesting reading

http://www.quora.com/Blueseed/Are-there-any-interim-solutions-to-Blueseed-co

and a video compliments of the Blueseed CEO

http://youtu.be/FLCYfhZEFb8

<rant>Personally, I have a heart-felt conviction that we need to build better onramps to entrepreneurship **locally** ... which is why I do what I do. 

Every time I see articles about Blueseed crop up I get all annoyed because I imagine that kind of money being invested in say ... Santa Cruz instead of a ship that feels like something trying to duplicate the bromance/frat house/silicon valley ickiness that I don't care for.

I imagine that we (Santa Cruz) would generate an amazing crop of startups that would make the world a better place. I think it's deep in our culture here to create valuable, sustainable, ethical businesses. Those businesses come from a place where we value our quality of life, the food we eat and preserving the planet. It came across in the last round of TechRaising projects loud and clear -- folks asked if we set a "sustainable" theme (which we did not but I think it comes from the Santa Cruz values). I think with a couple 3 or 30 million we could do amazing things. And perhaps things even more amazing than a D-League basketball team ... but I digress.</rant>

productOps
Margaret Rosas
Architect and Community Evangelist
http://twitter.com/mrosas

[Sean Tario]

Margaret,

I agree. Santa Cruz COULD be a hotbed for startup activity.  There are in fact a few very quiet "incubators" that are here, down the Bay, and in the mountains with very innovative ideas blossoming. They are ALL funded by 1 or 2 folks who have hit home runs in the past (solving the smart money problem Santa Cruz as a whole faces) and they are ALL struggling to attract and retain top talent across all disciplines, including engineering of all flavors.

After unsuccessfully trying to pool the local smart money together in town, I came to the realization that it would be far easier and more enjoyable for me to simply step up and hit my own home runs.

The folks at Nextspace for example are successfully executing their business plan and hitting some solid doubles and triples with a homerun looming for it's investors and managers I would image in the next few years. They are also providing a solid platform for those who simply need somewhere to kick start things. Same with Cruzio's new space and Satellite.  None of which existed 4 years ago as they do today.

We need more people here stepping up to the plate now, who are scrappy enough to make something happen despite the real barriers this community presents startups however.  Hats off to those of you doing just this, thinking big, and executing.

Ideally, in a few years, with the stage set, when a few of us have successfully succeeded despite the current barriers, we can take the next leap and start engaging and actively SEEDING local companies as some already have and actively are.  Ideally, those who are already successful will continue to hit a few more home runs that are rooted here in the Monterey Bay and Santa Cruz County.

Ideally those sitting on the sidelines will start to take notice and a tipping point can occur within the collective mindshare of this community.

Nutshell, let us be the change we hope to see in this world and IN OUR COMMUNITY. We all play a different part and role in this process, but as we are seeing, this is a process... a LONG and HARD process.

Again, my heart goes out and my hat is off to those right now doing, making manifest, fighting the good fight and keeping hope alive. Stay strong. Real change is happening.

Blessings,

Sean

[Dan Dascalescu]

Hey everyone,

My name is Dan Dascalescu and I'm Blueseed CIO. I found this thread via our alerting system, and wanted to help offer some information about what we're trying to achieve.

First off, I should start by saying that I live about an hour's away from Santa Cruz, and love coming to the city every so often. The beach, the boardwalk, the atmosphere (esp. on the 4th of July!) are awesome.

So about Blueseed -

1. The problem we're trying to solve is that foreign entrepreneurs who want to start companies and create jobs here, don't have a visa to do so. At the same time, the US has a "Diversity Immigrant Visa" that gives away 55,000 green cards (not just work visas, full-blown green cards!) per year to essentially random people (about the only meaningful requirement is to have graduated from high school). But at the same time, the US doesn't let startup entrepreneurs create companies, bring money in the country, and hire American. "This is madness", as Google's Eric Schmidt says in this video:

Of all the crazy rules in our government, the craziest of all, bar none, is that we take the smartest people in the world, we bring them to America, we give them PhDs in technical sciences, and we KICK THEM OUT, to go found great companies outside of America. This is madness.

A friend of mine who created a startup company that hired nine Americans, was hit by this silliness. You can see his story on Diane Sawyer's show on ABC news. The founder of India's Groupon, Kunal Bahl, was also kicked out after graduating from Wharton. Now, his company is growing furiously, in India.

2. The press does sometimes misunderstand what we're trying to do, and labels us a "floating sweatshop". There will be no chance in hell for that to happen, for a lot of reasons:

• If we had an unscrupulous business model, we'd find it impossible to raise the capital necessary to launch the project (~$60M).
• Since a floating IT shop requires a constant supply of goods from mainland (food, water, fuel, Internet connectivity etc.), we'd be faced with a blockade pronto if we did something fishy.
• Unlike, say, textile or manufacturing sweatshops, IT shops by their nature have a vastly easier way of communicating with the outside world and attracting media attention towards any form of exploitation. Their customers in turn will not want to be seen as partnering with a sweatshop. In short, it would be PR suicide for us to even think about that.
• It would be extremely hard to convince any IT people to get on a boat and work for peanuts. IT workers are the last people who can be exploitable due to the fact that they possess a skill that relatively very few people do. That means they are free to choose where they go because their skills are in demand.
  

3. Yes, there is a cap on the number of H-1B work visas for skilled employees (65,000 per year). But that's not the point. Blueseed is a ship for startup entrepreneurs. And there simply are no US visas for startups entrepreneurs. At all. See this video by the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

4. Everyone will pay taxes. This is clearly detailed in our FAQ, www.blueseed.co/faq.html#taxes

5. Workers on any ship are protected by international labor standards - http://www.ilo.org

6. Fixing the visa process has been tried for years. Nothing worked. Here are some of the bills that are still waiting to be passed, with their passing chances:

#startupvisa http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr1114 - 0%;

Startup Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1965 - 2%;

IDEA Act http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr2161 - 3%

I hope this answers the main points raised in the thread. For other questions, I'd be happy to help clarify.

As always, information straight from the horse's mouth is best. For those who are genuinely interested in the project and want be correctly informed about it, there are two great resources:

• Blueseed: visa-free startup incubator on a ship half an hour from Silicon Valley - our quick Powerpoint presentation
  
• http://blueseed.co/faq.html - our FAQ
  

Hope this helps,

Dan

[Chris Miller]

Hmmm. Ummm. Hmm. I think the real issue here is that entrepreneurs need to "invest" in local talent. The schools (via budget cuts) are failing the students, and companies are effectively selling out (us) to exploit foreign born folks who come with a higher education at a low price. Is that a fair statement?

I've been working with a group of local students whom are very motivated to learn and to accomplish, it just takes some business organization and a little effort. My company has not hit any home runs yet, but we have created jobs, and we have built a great crew that is in itself has become a self supporting team.

I don't blame anyone for seeking the American Dream, but I do think there is a corporate responsibility to be part of the solution here at home. Just sayin...

Chris 

[Alan Hawrylyshen]

The L1 visa category has complex restrictions that make it appropriate for transfers of talented technical staff or executive/manager types to the US offices of an established pan-national entity with offices in the US. You must have been employed by the pan-national entity for more than a year abroad - every day you spend in the US counts against the year, therefore in practice you need to have been employed in the role for 1year plus #-of-weeks-of-visits-to-US prior to qualifying. IANAL but the L1 status is hard to leverage in a small scale startup environment. These restrictions are a contributing factor to the lack of cap.

Alan
(formerly of L-1A status) :)


Sent from my mobile device.

[Reesa Abrams]

Good statements Chris

 

If companies think of their standard processes as steps in a good certification process for employees and managers and can work with other companies in academic industrial consortia that exist today on most campuses including on the Hill to developing ongoing professional standards we can start developing high quality workers who are ready to take their job when they graduate instead of the 18 months or longer (private school students take longer) to adjust to a real work environment

 

That is what I did as industrial visitor @ Stanford and what we are trying to do with TC3

Then we will not have the crises that have been caused by LEEDS

 

 

Reesa Abrams

COO  TechCycle3

408 512 7217

www.techcycle3.com

reesa....@techcycle3.com

 

Environmentally Sound

Computer Recycling

 

--

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

dan.

how does blueseed address the problem of "people want to start
companies in silicon valley but can't due to visa problems?"

i don't get it.

i can't get a tourist / business visa unless i have a domicile in
another country, so the blueseed raft can't be my registered domicile
for the visa process. (though you could probably solve that pretty
easy by making a deal where you get an official domicile in costa rica
when you sign up for space on the boat.)

the ilo does not have enforcement capability. it uses existing states
to enforce its recommendations (and... honestly... it doesn't do
_that_ great of a job.) though honestly, yes, it does seem like
business forces will do a MUCH better job than international
agreements to encourage sane working conditions.

where are you going to park your boat? inside the EEZ or CZ? expect a
visit from the coast guard and/or navy if/when NOAA and/or EPA get a
wild hair up their collective arses.

-cheers
-m

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

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[Kurt Overmeyer]

So why not just use the EB-5 program? Watsomville should soon have a regional center and we are just as close as the raft. Heck - I bet with that 60 mil you could develop your own business park!

Sent from my iPhone

[Andrew Mueller]

The problem that BlueSeed solves is that it makes it easy for
investors to visit, interact with, and get to know startups that are
otherwise very difficult for them to go visit. Those who may receive
investment may have the possibility of incorporating stateside.
BlueSeed is also a place where investors could "check out" talent that
they can match with the needs of their current portfolio companies and
perhaps work to get them visas or recruit to work remotely with their
portfolio companies.

I tend to want to give this the benefit of the doubt and rather than
speculating about what this really is and ranting about its merits or
lack there of, why not assume that it will become reality, the reality
is honorable, and explore how Santa Cruz can benefit from this
reality.

Just like the VCs and other investors want to attract the talent,
Santa Cruz wants to attract that talent. What could we do to make
Santa Cruz be prime location that entrepreneurs aboard BlueSeed (or
from any place else for that matter) would want to make their homes
and the headquarters of their businesses?




Sent from mobile device. Please excuse any voice to text transcription
weirdness.

[Jason Wehmhoener]

Kurt, can you tell us more about EB-5? First I've heard of it. 

-Jason

[Steve Terry]

I haven't the legal expertise to address concerns raised in this thread. My assumption is that those issues, being conditional to the funding of this enterprise, have been dealt with by the Blueseed team. 

For that reason, I think Andrew speaks well to the opportunity that Blueseed represents to Santa Cruz tech and the local economy in which we all have a stake. I say, good luck and welcome. I also think that the radical approach that Blueseed tries here is worth exploring. We'll see how well it floats!

S>)

---

From: Andrew Mueller <andrewb...@gmail.com>
To: "santacr...@googlegroups.com" <santacr...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Re: Blueseed proposed "startup community"

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[Meadhbh Hamrick]

call me a liberal, but i have a problem with what's effectively a
cruise ship anchored in the monterey bay marine preserve.

which is odd, since i always thought i was immune to NIMBYism.

outside the CZ & marine preserve borders, i have less of a problem
with the idea. but that would lengthen the time it takes to get to
boat by launch. so... i'm still not convinced. (which is odd, since i
generally like the idea of sea-steading.)

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

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[Nadine Schaeffer]

Meadhbh, I was wondering the same thing.

Dan, could you let us know how Blueseed is planning to manage environmental concerns? The Monterey Bay Marine Preserve area forbids cruise ships to the best of my knowledge, specifically because of pollution and other environmental concerns.

I personally was thinking about this, because long long ago, I lived on a houseboat on the Seine in a little community of boats, and the net results was that the water of the Seine was NASTY.  We used to joke that the river water quality was why no one could ever get too drunk on our boat - you wouldn't survive if you fell off.

I don't think much lives in the Seine anymore, but the bounty of life in the Monterey Bay is a great and wondrous thing worthy of concern and protection.

Best,

-- 
Nadine Schaeffer

cloud...@gmail.com

www.cloudforestdesign.com

831.600.8929 (office)

831.588.4509 (mobile)

[Dan Dascalescu]

The problem we solve was very well pointed out by Andrew - we "make it easy for investors to visit, interact with, and get to know startups that are otherwise very difficult for them to go visit". Blueseed will, like any other ship, fly the flag of a certain country, and since entrepreneurs will live on the ship, they will be in effect residents of that country. Anyway, they'll get their business or tourist visas before coming to the US even, since they need to land at SFO in order to board the ship. (This also lets the US government screen everyone to its discretion.)

Environmentally-wise, we've made a lot of inquiries already with waste management and cleantech companies (wind power, wave energy conversion and OTEC, algal biofuels, and to a lesser extent given the area, solar energy generation). There's no other way for us than to be one of the cleanest ships out there, and to that end we've researched existing and novel technologies that can achieve that:

1. Since we’re a startup incubator, a number of the startup companies aboard will work in the cleantech space. We already have a few startups researching algal biofuels that have expressed interest.
   
2. Given our unusual media exposure, a number of green tech companies (e.g. SunRun) expressed interest in offering their products for use on the ship at no cost to us, in exchange for promotional opportunities.
   
3. There are well-established solutions for waste management aboard ships (water treatment, compaction and incineration).
   

As to how Santa Cruz could become the location of choice for entrepreneurs once they "graduate" their startups from Blueseed, or even before, below are some ideas. Right now, our port of choice is Half Moon Bay, given its equal proximity to San Francisco and Silicon Valley (45 minutes to each).

• Capitalize on UC Santa Cruz. Half Moon Bay can't compete in that regard :)
• SC is a beautiful place, and has beautiful beaches. The atmosphere is again more dynamic than HMB. Nightlife would be a plus.
• existing companies in Santa Cruz can organize entrepreneurial events
• San Francisco is too crowded, HMB is too laid back. SC may be just the right mix.

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

a. i can't get investors to come over the hill to visit people in
scotts valley or santa cruz. you expect them to come over the hill and
then get on a boat?

b. you want to leverage UCSC? for what purpose?

c. i understand you want to be the cleanest ship out there, but that
still means you're radically dirtier than having no ship out there.

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

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[Andrew Mueller]

Let's not forget that this list is a public list and these emails that
we sent back and forth are posted online and indexed by Google.
Negativity will not make it any more likely to attract investors or
talent to our endeavors.

We have amazing entrepreneurs and extremely talented people among us.
We are not victims... we can create a thriving tech community if we
set our minds to it and are passionate about it. Although we are
separated from Silicon Valley by a mountain range we are still
connected in many ways. We can get smart about it and use this to our
benefit. The first thing we need to do is make sure that the Santa
Cruz tech community is perceived as being top notch, innovative, and
filled with the type of people that you would want to work with. Rants
on this list do not help this.

Not only will investors come over the hill but they will invest in
worthy Santa Cruz companies. One such investor invested more than $1
million in a company I ran here in Santa Cruz. Since Blueseed
entrepreneurs need tourist visas to board the ship in SF it makes it
possible for them to come on shore to visit the VCs , angels, and
Santa Cruz. The investors don't necessarily have to go to them on the
boat or at least not each time they need to meet. The point is is that
proximity allows the connection to happen and happen throughout the
time period that a start up would need to court the investor.

UCSC is a source of talent for companies that are started here in
Santa Cruz. I've spoken to more than one professors who would love to
see the tech community flourish here so more off their students can
stay and have careers here in Santa Cruz.

Right now both Capitola beach and Cowells beach have biohazard
warnings. It seems like we are not doing a very good job keeping our
waters clean ourselves. I suspect one ship anchored 12 miles offshore
in international waters would have minimal impact if managed properly.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it's best to look at what
opportunities this may bring for us here in Santa Cruz.

Sent from mobile device. Please excuse any voice to text transcription
weirdness.

[Margaret Rosas]

Dan,

I applaud and welcome you to the land of Santa Cruz geeks. When I approved your membership last night, I was like, hot damn, we've got a live one! I'm now contemplating seeding posts with other folks we might like to interview on the geeks list :) Thank you for your candor and participation in entering this conversation and providing us with another perspective.

I'd like to offer that while Half Moon Bay has Robert Scoble aka Scobleizer (are we tripping any alerts yet?), you are correct in your observations about the distinct qualities of Santa Cruz. They are the very things that create a vibrant, hopping little city those of us on this list cherish and adore. While many of us sacrifice the allure, connection and higher salaries of the Silicon Valley to live in our slice of heaven, some 20K+ commute to the Silicon Valley every day. Talk about a drag on the environment. 

I'm encouraged by your approach to tackling the environmental impact of the ship. I invite you to tap into our local UCSC talent when looking at the problem. There is a wealth of talent and creativity being developed and fostered on campus that could help push your thinking even further forward. To start, here's a link to one program that develops student internships at the intersection of sustainability and engineering: http://sustainability.ucsc.edu/ideass. And there the Engineering school provides access to their top students through the Senior Design Project here: https://sdp.soe.ucsc.edu/home. They both will be taking new projects in the Fall -- perhaps you could kick off a project with them to dive into some of your areas of interest.

I also want to invite you to keep your eye open for Santa Cruz tech events that would let you connect with our community. In two weeks, we'll have our monthly TechRaising meetup (http://www.meetup.com/Santa-Cruz-TechRaising/events/62877952/). We are providing ongoing support and mentorship for the 18 startup projects that demoed at our event in April. Several participants were accepted to Founder Institute and are continuing their startup journey with Adeo Ressi. We are actively developing our mentor network, so feel free to introduce us to Dave McClure, Fred Wilson or Peter Thiel :) (yes, just tripping alerts again!). However, we do have a nice crop of local mentors already. Santa Cruz has a tendency to attract some amazing folks who aren't as visible as Dave McClure, but they they are credentialed and committed to nurturing new entrepreneurs. 

We've got coworking spaces (NextSpace, Cruzio and Satellite) that provide easy entry into our startup ecosystem. Hanging out in any of these spaces for an afternoon can provide a nice slice of the Santa Cruz startup space. I'm happy to arrange an introduction to the spaces if you'd like a tour. 

I do think we have a lot to gain by watching what you do to create a "startup ecosystem in a ship" as it has similar patterns to our local efforts to create a "startup ecosystem in a city". Over the years, we have a lot of conversations here about how to create a vibrant ecosystem and we often come to the conclusion that we don't necessarily want to completely emulate the Silicon Valley. In fact, when we look at the Silicon Valley, we can see that they often try to construct "Santa Cruz" culture within their startups. We work hard and play hard. We value our environment. We are concerned about our impact to the environment. We want to make a positive impact. Thinking outside the box is our normal. Entrepreneurship runs deep in our culture. 

So yes, we will question the viability and environmental impact of a cruise ship in the bay. And we will consider the value (or not) of providing opportunity for immigrants over creating that same opportunity for current citizens. But we will also keep an open mind and bring our curiosity to the table to see how we might create opportunity for your ship to help our city. 

Looking forward to seeing you around town.

Cheers, Margaret

p.s. in perusing the BlueSeed site I found the following items that may be of interest to others on the list:

1. Slide 10 has a nice round up of various visas and their shortcomings -- (@JasonW it includes a comparison of the EB-5) http://www.blueseed.co/survey-for-startups.html
2. 30% of those interested in Blueseed are companies of US origin.That tells me that there is some appeal and interest in Blueseed beyond the Visa advantage. http://appv3.sgizmo.com/reportsview/?key=160740-994105-7c5c49015b499d05bf811eb6ef95c05 

[Meadhbh Hamrick]

andrew. you know i love you, but if the rules of this list are that i
need to self-edit to avoid meeting your standard for negativity, then
go ahead and unsubscribe me.

--
meadhbh hamrick * it's pronounced "maeve"
@OhMeadhbh * http://meadhbh.org/ * OhMe...@gmail.com

[Andrew Mueller]

Meadhbh, I am not asking anyone to self edit - this list is for the community, and my comments were not aimed at you. They were a response to the tone of the thread itself. My intention was simply to encourage us all to look past the appearances and and see opportunity where at first glance one may see none. Meadhbh, I know you have a wealth of experience and are extremely talented and would love to see multiple Santa Cruz companies fighting to get their hands on that talent! I want to build the ecosystem here so that happens! 

Andrew Mueller

Mueller & Company

TechRaising

831 239-6745

and...@muellerandrew.com

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:47 PM, Meadhbh Hamrick <ohme...@gmail.com> wrote:

andrew. you know i love you, but if the rules of this list are that i
need to self-edit to avoid meeting your standard for negativity, then
go ahead and unsubscribe me.

--

[Mike Xu]

It would be so cool to have a startup boat at half moon bay!

[Nadine Schaeffer]

I am going to chime in and agree with Mike here - it would be cool to have a tech boat offshore! I have to admit, deep down inside, I just adore boats, the way some boys like firetrucks, and so I do find this idea intriguing on so many levels.

Dan has really been quite detailed and patient in allying most of my concerns about this enterprise, so I would also like to thank him for coming onto this list and talking with us. 

I do believe the immigration and visa process is broken, and although I would like to believe to can be fixed through a democratic process over time, I also welcome alternative approaches. Sometimes innovation and change starts most successfully from outside existing systems. Mostly though, I am huge fan and follower of green tech, and I welcome any innovations and incubators for the kind of technology that may actually change the world for the better.

All the best,

-- 
Nadine Schaeffer

cloud...@gmail.com

www.cloudforestdesign.com

831.600.8929 (office)

831.588.4509 (mobile)

[Rob Knight]

I just want follow on with Margaret and say thank you to Dan for jumping into the fray and discussing this with us. Your transparency and willingness to address our concerns is appreciated. As you can tell, this is a spirited list with diverse opinions. I appreciate that you were willing to step right in and join the discussion.

I'm intrigued by the idea of Blueseed now more than before because of the potential impacts on the cruise ship industry. Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe cruise ships are not allowed in the Monterey Bay Marine Sanctuary because of the environmental impact. It would be interesting to have a ship (parked somewhere else to begin with), full of smart people working on making cruise ships environmentally safe for protected waters. It's like building a better home while you live in it. The green/clean tech improvements would likely be helpful across other industries as well.

Also, thanks to everyone on this thread for a great discussion that started light-heartedly and evolved into a good healthy debate.

-r 

[Steve Terry]

Having lived here since 1978, I would like to point out that this area's creative energy arises from the passionate and committed people who prefer to live in a space where a diverse perspective is welcomed. In this thread we have a taste of that dish. We are a population that thrives on diversity in all it's messiness. Looking for the herd? Go to Silicon Valley. This community goes its own way and makes no apologies. This thread is no outlier, in that regard. 

Anarchist? Libertarian? Socialist? Liberal? Come on down! Freedom is a stew, not an entree served a la carte. Conservative values? Santa Cruz boasts a budget surplus. (How did those old hippies do it?) Ayn Rand would feel right at home. So would Bob Dylan.

I have a cafe membership at NextSpace, a co-working facility that has been up and running here for over 4 years because of the vision and impatience of a few folks who decided that waiting for the City to incubate an incubator was like waiting for Godot! NS has now opened co-working spaces in San Francisco, San Jose, Los Angeles, and (soon) Venice with more on the drawing board. Jeremy Neuner was Santa Cruz's City Biz Development Director before he and Caleb Baskin, and Ryan Coonerty took the plunge in 2008 after the bottom had fallen out of the economy. You might call it risky. I call it turning lemons into opportunity.  

In 2009 Sol Lipman and some other 'Spacers hung out on a week long RV road trip to explore what they could come up with something that would be fun to make and use. There's that word again. Rallyup emerged out of that, which in turn was bought by AOL. Sol and his band now constitutes the mobile platform development arm of AOL. We call that outcome the NextSpace Effect. Like shift, it happens. All the time. 

Cruzio, a pioneer ISP in Santa Cruz, just a block away, took the plunge to bring in fiber, rebuild the old Sentinel newspaper building into a hub for new business, and contribute Cruzioworks, their co-working environment, to enhance the freelance tech/entrepreneurial demand that thrives here. We now have high-grade broadband delivery. They opened their new facility last year. That's lemonade.

Dave Britton and Chris Yonge started MakersFactory in the Cruzio bldg last year. Dave has a history of success in SV having cashed out four companies out of that realm. Chris has been in the forefront of design and innovation here as a founder of Santa Cruz Center for Design and Innovation. He also instructs at UCSC. Dave and Chris were fired up over the possibilities (and opportunities) presented by additive technologies and opened a open-source educational facility to train young and old how to use this exciting tech. I have sat next to 10 year olds and 60 year olds learning how to create the digital files that transform 3D images into 3D objects. More lemonade.

We are more than drum circles and surf boards. NextSpace is a 24/7 facility. I have occasion to be here at all hours and am always struck by the number of people I see after hours working. And I am so impressed by the young people I find whose passion to code is off the scale. All day, all night. It's inspiring.

TechRaising was brought into existance by Margaret Rosas. Andrew Mueller, and Mathew Swinnerton in 2011. People present their ideas to peers on Friday evening, teams coalesce around those ideas and work to bring about a "minimum viable demonstration" or MVD by Sunday afternoon. The first event launched three new businesses with funding by money people who were in the mix that weekend acting as mentors as well as investors. In April of this year, 38 ideas were pitched, 18 MVD's resulted. I'm not sure how many startups came out of that this year.

Creative people like spaces that support their creativity. They like environments that are fun and stimulating. They like throwing ideas up against the wall to see if they stick. They like having fun because fun breeds more ideas and more fun. Yes, we have fun in Santa Cruz. What's the point of spending so much of your time doing something. No one clock watches here in Santa Cruz. There's too much to do and not enough time, not the other way around. So, round and round and round It goes like the old Merry-go-round at the BoardWalk. And, yes, they disagree regularly. No one gets a free pass. In that regard, Santa Cruz is like Missouri. 

We are a community of cats. We don't herd. But we do cooperate, collaborate, collate, and create fun stuff together. We often don't realize that in other places, work is just work. We go to play, not work, and it works for us. And when we aren't having fun creating stuff we step outside and enjoy the natural abundance of sea, sand, mountains, and the flora and fauna that flourishes around us. Mother Nature is a creative force that always delivers the "goods". 

Now here is the big secret. We don't really need SV. There are some of us that don't want everyone out there to know what we know. Parking is already a problem. Rents and home prices are already high. A locally-inspired bumper sticker says, "Don't surf. Surfing sucks." Alas, once people find this place they have fun and begin to think that maybe Santa Cruz is not just for vacations. Give our surfing community credit for trying, anyway (a creative and passionate group.) And, for sure, no one here wants Santa Cruz to become Carmelized: a community of minimum-wage earners that's serves the rich during the day and then commutes miles to more affordable dwellings. 

Truth is, the only strategy we in the tech community have come up with other than discouraging people that living in paradise sucks, is to give Santa Cruz a broader and more value-added economic foundation for the future. That will allow more people to live here without riding the hump to SV everyday. If it were just about the money, our tech community would just move over the hill. I say again, creative people need creative spaces for work AND play. The two activities together make a whole. Humans usually express that in the word, "home". The cool thing is, coding is non-polluting. It's a perfect fit for old hippies and young technophiles. (Now, just wait for this thread to light up again with someone who will point out the destructive side of IT. Happens all the time.)

Take it from an old hung-with-old-Hippies. Better to live in Santa Cruz in a van, than in SV in a mansion. Which is, in fact, the truth. 

P.S.--A little known fact. There is more public art per square inch in Santa Cruz than any city in the country. (I think)

 

Try our Lemonade! It's the best! 

S>)

---

From: Mike Xu <mikha...@gmail.com>
To: "santacr...@googlegroups.com" <santacr...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 11:20 PM

Subject: Re: [santacruzgeeks] Re: Blueseed proposed "startup community"

[chris arkenberg]

Thanks for that, Steve.

"Now here is the big secret. We don't really need SV."

Amen, brother! Instead of constantly wondering if Santa Cruz is good
enough for the SV VC big wigs, what if we turned it around and
challenged the VC's to be good enough for Santa Cruz? When you have
low self-esteem you end up in abusive relationships. ;)

Santa Cruz is full of very talented tech workers. The fact that most
of them work over the hill does not diminish our value but it does put
pressure on entrepreneurs to create viable job opportunities here in
town. Both me & my fiancé would love love love love! to be able to get
paid $100k to work in Santa Cruz (and service our mortgage) instead of
grinding our cars & bodies & souls down with the commute to the
Valley, the Peninsula, the City.

Also: Waterworld. There, I said it.

Chris

[Jason Wehmhoener]

Awesome post Steve, thanks, but I will say that occasionally this cat feels a bit herded by some of the more eager dogs on the list. 

-Jason

On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Steve Terry <ster...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[chris arkenberg]

Yeah, and amidst all the entrepreneur-love it would be nice to see
some appreciation for being a hard worker who just wants to be part of
a solid team with a coherent vision and a good attitude. I really
don't want to start & run a company.

C

[Sean Tario]

<begin rant>

"When you have low self-esteem you end up in abusive relationships."

So very very true. I see too many here in Santa Cruz with low self-esteem and constantly playing the victim when opportunity is staring them in the face.  Many of these types like to troll around in the comments/forums at the Sentinel and Good Times in fact... and on occasion... here.

It's in part the nature of working every day with scaling/growing companies that range from startup to Fortune 500, and in part intentionally waking up every day with a desire to work around those who are constantly evolving and pushing things forward, but I see opportunity everywhere these days folks.  If you feel herded, or that the world isn't recognizing your talent, in most cases I've found it's likely because you're allowing yourself to be herded or not effectively recognizing your own talent.  If you are not personally confident about your talent as something and someone that should be valued and can create value, how can others expect to see this from you?

There are literally hundreds of companies hiring right now in the Monterey Bay and Silicon Valley... while most of the rest of the world is in recession/depression... companies here are HIRING and GROWING.  We are blessed to be near such opportunity!!!

There are dozens of events going on here locally, down south and over the hill every single day where you can put yourself in front of those growing and hiring.  Reality is over 85% of people find jobs today STILL through personal referrals.  In fact the number one complaint companies have is that they can't find enough QUALITY talent willing to hustle and learn and evolve within their organizations.  If you haven't found these opportunities I can promise you it is not because they don't exist.  We're in a different economy and culture these days that requires most of us not born into generational wealth to HUNT and PLANT SEEDS if you wish to eat.  Start hunting and planting... do it intentionally... your survival and this community's survival will depend on it.

We are in a climate where evolution, or (r)evolution, is simply the new norm for survival.  This is the case for not only the institutions that are making money today, but government and our own personal growth.  If what you've done for years is no longer relevant you must evolve, grow, try something new.  If how you've traditionally tried to go about finding work is no longer working you must evolve, grow, try something new... stretch yourself.  To put it another way, if what you've hunted and the kind of seeds you've planted are no longer working and bearing fruit, start hunting and planting something new and do it quickly.  DO, asses your results, and repeat or keep doing what works.  Many institutions and organizations will fall because they can not sustain themselves leveraging the tools and methods that worked all of a decade ago.  Unfortunately, many people and families will go hungry and perish as well because they refuse to change and evolve the methods that they have traditionally leveraged to support themselves and their families.

I am continually inspired by those in Santa Cruz who are constantly evolving and who are willing and passionate to jump in to something new if that's what they need to do to survive.  To this extent, I am happy to chat with anyone who is still struggling to find a job who has a will and desire to provide value to an organization, work hard, evolve as a person and possibly accept a position that they may have traditionally shied away from.  I will ask for nothing in return.  I have done so already for a few of you and will continue to do so because we need more DOERS out manifesting positive change.  I will not however accept anyone who approaches me or this process with a defeatist attitude, as you've already determined your outcome and there will be nothing anyone can do to help.  I will also not accept anyone who simply wants a 9-5 in a cubicle and a paycheck where they can get away with screwing around on facebook most of the day and ducking responsibility.  If this is NOT you, you can and WILL find a job because your passion, desire and will to create value is a rare talent these days in huge demand.  I challenge you to challenge me on this.  I challenge you to challenge yourself on this.

<end rant>

[Nadine Schaeffer]

Nice rant!

I love me a good rant, and that one was 110% truth with 0% snark. Well done. 

Thanks Sean.

- Nadine

[Darren]

Amen, sir! I could not have said it better! I love Santa Cruz, the people I work with here, the business, collaboration, cocreation, that happens on a daily business. Need a leg up? Raise a hand and say it and a person will be more than happy to step up. I could complain I don't find enough qualified developers, designers, frabblesnappers, and whosiwhazit workers, but instead of complaining, I like that we take it upon ourselves to step up and teach those who are willing to do the job.

Dan,

I welcome you to the Santa Cruz Geeks! I am glad we can be a home to another intriguing new business enabler.

Santa Cruz - Innovation happens here! ™

With warmest regards,

Darren Odden Sr. Developer & Creative Odden Creative Media Development | Design | Photography Tel: 831.515.8597 | OddenCreativeMedia.com

My profiles:

[Dan Dascalescu]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the delay. *Preparing* to _begin_ starting a small city is no small task ;)

I must say I'm impressed by the passion I've seen in the forum! Amazing rants (Steve!), warm welcomes (thanks Margaret, Darren, Andrew and everyone!) and overall great people! I'd love to drop by - Margaret, if you can let me know at dan at blueseed.co when it would be a good time to visit NextSpace, that would be great; Fridays work best for me.

PS: a delayed reply to Meadhbh, re. "c. i understand you want to be the cleanest ship out there, but that still means you're radically dirtier than having no ship out there."

Based on the same argument, then even if you have a Prius, that's still radically dirtier than having no car.

I would look at the issue in broader terms: what if the extra revenue from having the Blueseed ship could pay for cleaning operations that aren't done now due to budgetary restrictions? What if research on the ship can yield much better methods of cleaning the ocean? Here's an example of this type of research, an oil-spill cleaning robot:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cesarminoru/protei-open-hardware-oil-spill-cleaning-sailing-ro 

What if OTEC and WEC technology develop aboard can in the future cut the need for coal-based power plants? And so on.

Dan

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:25:04 AM UTC-7, Forest Monsen wrote:

A ship anchored half an hour from Silicon Valley, where workers
without visas can slave away:
http://www.blueseed.co/quick-facts.html

[Dan Dascalescu]

What a wonderful Friday afternoon - thank you Margaret, Matthew, and Andrew for being such gracious hosts, and Erik for the after-tour.

All - the above SC geeks gave me a tour of productOps, Cruzio, and NextSpace. Any doubt that Santa Cruz was a vibrant and welcoming entrepreneurial community has dissipated, and I was pleasantly surprised to learn that one of the Santa Cruz success stories was Borland, the makers of an integrated development environment that I used back in '95 during my days as a Pascal and C++ coder.

I look forward to coming back more often, and meeting more of you. If there's interest in a Blueseed presentation beyond what we have in our online deck, I'd be happy to oblige.

Best regards,

Dan