POPE MEETS IRAN'S KHATAMI

[uwais alqarni]

Published on Taipei <http://www.taipeitimes.com>  Times http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2007/05/06/2003359707 Pope meets Iran's Khatami to resolve tension over speech

AP, VATICAN CITY Sunday, May 06, 2007, Page 6 Former Iranian president Mohammad Khatami met Pope Benedict XVI on Friday for talks the Vatican hoped would help heal tensions left from the pope's remarks on Islam and violence, but the Iranian said the wounds were still very deep. Khatami, a reformist in power from 1997 to 2005, had been scheduled to meet with Benedict in October but the meeting was canceled. No reason was given, but it was just weeks after Benedict's speech in Germany about Islam touched off protests across the Muslim world. On Friday, the two men spoke about the importance of "a serene dialogue between cultures intended to overcome the grave tensions that mark our times," the Vatican said in a statement after Khatami's 30-minute meeting with Benedict. But visiting a Catholic university in Rome before going into the talks, Khatami said that "unfortunately the wounds of this world are very deep and they cannot be healed easily and a single meeting may not be enough," the ANSA news agency quoted him as responding to a question about Benedict's speech. Relations between Muslims and Christians were badly strained after Benedict quoted a Byzantine emperor who characterized some of the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed as "evil and inhuman," particularly "his command to spread by the sword the faith." Benedict expressed regret that the citation offended Muslims. As a sign of improved relations, Benedict made a successful visit to predominantly Muslim Turkey in November. It was Khatami's second meeting with a pope, following an audience with Pope John Paul II in 1999, two years after the Iranian had taken office. In visiting Rome, he was not representing the Iranian government, although the Vatican clearly attached importance to the talks. It issued an official statement on the meeting with the pope and separate talks with top Vatican officials and released photos of the papal audience. Khatami later met with Italian Premier Romano Prodi at his office in central Rome. Earlier in Rome, addressing an academic gathering at the Pontifical Gregorian University, he said that dialogue between Islam and Christianity must concentrate on a "sincere and practical commitment" to "eliminate terrorism and the great military conflicts." "We cannot and must not use the name of God, the name of all perfection and generosity and beauty and truth, as a password for war and hate," he said. The Vatican statement said the two men also took up a subject of pressing concern for the Church -- the conditions of the Christian community in Iran and across the Middle East. The statement also called for "strong initiatives by the international community" to set up serious negotiations, citing as an example this week's international conference on Iraq in Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt. Copyright C 1999-2007 The Taipei Times. All rights reserved.

[Gerard Vincent]

----- Original Message ----
From: uwais alqarni <aweza...@gmail.com>
To: sangk...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 May, 2007 2:58:20 PM
Subject: [sangkancil] POPE MEETS IRAN'S KHATAMI

Published on Taipei Times

_______________________________________________________________________________________

05/04/2007 15:15

VATICAN - IRAN
Benedict XVI and Khatami: the good trail is Regensburg
Bernardo Cervellera

AsiaNews

http://www.asianews.it/view4print.php?l=en&art=9172

Today's meeting at the Vatican between Mohammad Khatami and Benedict XVI was held under the banner of the "dialogue between civilizations." Iran's former president has for years been working for such dialogue which involves the clear expression of identity, profound respect for the religious element, and a critique of mathematical and materialistic reason. From this point of view, today's encounter is very much in line with the speech that the Pope made at Regensburg University last September.

Pope Benedict XVI's masterly lecture tended in fact to highlight a widening of reason that, by going beyond anti-religion Enlightenment thinking ("irrational"), allows for rich and fraternal dialogue with extra-European and non-Western cultures. At the same time, the Pope showed that violence is "irrational" and is therefore worthy neither of God, nor of man, nor of any religion, Islam included.

The fuss which resulted from the Regensburg speech was fuelled by liberalist Westerners and islamist Easterners and belittled the profoundness of Benedict XVI's proposal so as to make it appear a simple dispute between Islam and Christianity, with the latter "obviously" unable to understand Islam and accusing the Pope of having fomented a "war of religions."

At that time, Khatami was among the few Muslims leaders – the first – to distance himself from the protest rallies and attacks of the Islamic world, asking everyone "to read the Pope's entire speech, before criticizing it." But, because of the tensions created by malevolent interpretations of the Regensburg address, his visit to the Vatican, initially planned for last November, did not take place. Today's meeting heals a wound and sends the message that "dialogue between civilizations" is stronger than the "clash of civilizations."

But it is only a partial healing. Where in fact healing is slow is in the liberalist Western world where, to avoid questioning its blind closure to the problem of Godless reason, it continues to rail against the Catholic Church and the Pope, and justifies the many forms of violence committed in the name of Islam, fomenting a new war of religion with Islam.

In their ideological blindness, a good part of the so-called "progressive" intellectuals says that the causes of terrorism are American imperialism, colonialism, the state of Israel, globalization. But in this way they do not realize that Islamist terrorism strikes well beyond the West: Buddhists in Thailand, Hindus in India, Muslims themselves, both Sunni and Shia. Even violence against Palestinians does not only come with an Israeli stamp, but also derives from a power struggle between Hamas and Fatah.

Thanks to this blindness in Europe – and in Italy – we are witnessing a veritable alliance between progressivism and violent Islamism. In the name of anti-Americanism and multiculturalism, people are calling for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq, from Afghanistan, and are justifying the violence of males against Islamic women and polygamy. Again yesterday, the Pope was ridiculed in the European Parliament, while great caution was exercised when it was a question of the anti-Mohammad caricatures. And while a benevolent attitude is being preached with regard to a violent Islam, an intransigent and intolerant attitude is spreading against the Catholic Church, "guilty" of displaying crosses and nativity scenes and of expressing its view on life and family in the ("liberal"?) society.

The encounter between Benedict XVI and Khatami shows that dialogue is possible if parties do not hide their identity and work for the good of men and women. To do this, it is necessary that, from East to West, we condemn violence, always and regardless, while guaranteeing religious freedom

___________________________________________________________
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[Stephen Tan]

Sangkancillers
Religions are man-made and they have produced World War I and World War II.
The moment religion is politicised, then humanity has a problem. If left to their own devices, their value increases since they do contribute to social stability.
Once politicised, they are instrumentalised for domination. That is not what spirituality is all about. Spirituality is something personal. Let us therefore distinguish between religion and spirituality.
Stephen Tan

---

> Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:42:17 +0000
> From: geeve...@yahoo.co.uk
> Subject: [sangkancil] Re: POPE MEETS IRAN'S KHATAMI
> To: sangk...@googlegroups.com

[Uriah Ang Moh Khow]

http://www.business times.com. sg/sub/news/ story/0,4574, 234926,00. html?

Race relations still fragile in M'sia

By S JAYASANKARAN IN KUALA LUMPUR
Published May 23, 2007

A LETTER from Malaysia's largest bank telling lawyers they had to comply
with bumiputera equity conditions if they wanted to be on its legal panel
has brought race relations sharply into focus amid a climate of seemingly
heightened ethnic sensitivities.

Two months after Maybank sent out the letter, a row broke out when
Chinese-language newspapers published its contents early this month. Maybank
said firms with at least three partners must have 50 per cent bumiputera -
indigenous people and largely ethnic Malay - equity.

The letter caused a ruckus with the Bar Council, the umbrella body for all
lawyers, describing it as 'discriminatory' . The opposition Democratic Action
Party threatened to organise a consumer boycott of Maybank and the Malaysian
Chinese Association, the second most senior party in the National Front
government, protested loudly at the move.

As a result, the Cabinet ordered Maybank to retract the letter, which it
did. But the bank's retraction upset the Malay-language press and the Malay
Chambers of Commerce, which defended Maybank's decision to press for ethnic
Malay rights as the 'patriotic' thing to do.

The episode illustrates the fragile nature of race relations in a country
poised to celebrate its 50th year of independence. But the extent of the
supposed deterioration may be overblown. 'I suspect this has always been
around,' said Azim Zabidi, a banker and treasurer of the ruling United
Malays National Organisation (Umno). 'But now, there is greater discussion,
open ventilation of issues in the media and over the Internet, and so people
conclude that things are getting tense.'

The Maybank episode comes amid a backdrop of divisive ethnic and religious
issues that could erode Chinese support for the government at a general
election that must be held by 2009. Topping the list of Chinese grouses are
affirmative action policies that favour Malays, now in place for 36 years.
At the 2004 annual Umno caucus, deputy Youth chief Khairy Jamaluddin called
on the government to renew its emphasis on the New Economic Policy, a
decades-old affirmative action that many Malays feel was watered down
significantly during the last years of former prime minister Mahathir
Mohamad's tenure. Angst over the policy remains, with the Chinese arguing
that a renewed emphasis on affirmative action is unrealistic, given the
forces of globalisation.

It has been a fruitless rejoinder. When a Chinese academic released a report
last year which argued that Malays already controlled 45 per cent of the
equity of listed companies - as opposed to the policy's stated target of 30
per cent and the government estimated 19 per cent - the backlash from Malays
was so angry that the academic had to resign.

Meanwhile, Malaysia's conservative Muslims are outraged by what they see as
Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi's pandering to non-Muslims, and are agitating
for greater protection for Islam, which they say is under threat from
liberals.

The courts have been roped into the debate. A standout example: an ethnic
Malay-Muslim woman is currently petitioning the secular courts to affirm her
right to become a Christian - a potential hot potato in a land where some
right-wing Islamists consider apostasy so offensive that it should be
punished by death.

Seen in that context, the Maybank episode seems trivial. That banks practise
these policies is an open though unmentioned secret in Kuala Lumpur. For
their part, Chinese-owned banks generally dish out work to Chinese lawyers.
Maybank was pilloried because it decided to be transparent about its policy.

Still, the issue sums up the pressures buffeting Malaysia's political
economy. The Malay anger over Maybank's retraction and subsequent
clarification neatly underscored the Chinese domination of the economy. Put
simply, the country's largest bank, which gets a fifth of its revenue from
Singapore, could not afford to annoy its Chinese customer base.

Meanwhile, the great race debate seems set to be a perennial issue in
Malaysia, with the Chinese private sector reacting defensively to what it
perceives to be a system loaded in favour of the Malays. It may be
Malaysia's ultimate tragedy.

'I am continually amazed by the way Malaysian Chinese companies refuse to
arrange their employment to even partially reflect Malaysia's population,'
said a banker who deals with many Chinese companies, big and small. 'The
only Malays you see working for them are drivers and members of the board.'

---

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[gnh]

No sensible Chinese businessman would want to employ  Malays in the company in any other positions .. 

 

  the Board, because  the puppets look impressive to the other Malays ….

 

. , the Drivers and Jagas, because that;’s about the ONLY jobs they could possibly do with some appearance of  efficiency ….

 

 

 

 

---

From: sangk...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sangk...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Uriah Ang Moh Khow
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:48 PM
To: sangk...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [sangkancil] Race relations still fragile in M'sia

http://www.business times.com. sg/sub/news/ story/0,4574, 234926,00. html?

Race relations still fragile in M'sia

By S JAYASANKARAN IN KUALA LUMPUR
Published May 23, 2007

A LETTER from Malaysia's largest bank telling lawyers they had to comply
with bumiputera equity conditions if they wanted to be on its legal panel
has brought race relations sharply into focus amid a climate of seemingly
heightened ethnic sensitivities.

Two months after Maybank sent out the letter, a row broke out when
Chinese-language newspapers published its contents early this month. Maybank
said firms with at least three partners must have 50 per cent bumiputera -
indigenous people and largely ethnic Malay - equity.

'

I am continually amazed by the way Malaysian Chinese companies refuse to
arrange their employment to even partially reflect Malaysia's population,'
said a banker who deals with many Chinese companies, big and small. 'The
only Malays you see working for them are drivers and members of the board.'

[Gerard Vincent]

----- Original Message ----
From: Stephen Tan <bc_...@hotmail.com>
To: sangk...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 23 May, 2007 8:05:58 PM
Subject: [sangkancil] Re: POPE MEETS IRAN'S KHATAMI

Sangkancillers

Religions are man-made and they have produced World War I and World War II.

The moment religion is politicised, then humanity has a problem. If left to their own devices, their value increases since they do contribute to social stability.

Once politicised, they are instrumentalised for domination. That is not what spirituality is all about. Spirituality is something personal. Let us therefore distinguish between religion and spirituality.

Stephen Tan
___________________________________________________________________________________________

Hello, Stephen,

It's interesting that you assert that religion is "man-made" and contrast it with "spirituality" or "personal spirituality". In fact, the term "personal spirituality" implies immediately that it is intrinsically "man-made", since it is particular to "persons" (or "men", supposedly).

Thus, if one were asked which of the two, religion or "spirituality", were more likely to be "man-made", it seems reasonable to believe that the answer must be "spirituality" because it is "personal" according to your view. An established religion, because it presents to a person propositions that do not originate in that person, could for this reason be said to be less intrinsically "man-made" or "person-made".

Of course, it is, anyway, a false dichotomy to suggest that religion and spirituality are somehow different things, because very obviously the very essence of religion is spirituality or fostering spiritual awareness and growth.

Now, it is novel, to say the least, that religion is responsible for the two world wars of the 20th century. I know of no historian who holds that view. Very clearly, these wars were about much more basic secular things such as trade, ideology, hegemony and empire-building. Nothing essentially religious about these things, I would say, (in fact, they are non-religious or secular) and they have been at the root of wars down the centuries over all the world, even today.

Diverse centres of power is what makes for wars and conflict, I would suggest, Stephen, and wars are about these power centres struggling with each other for dominance and survival.

If anything, religion may act as a brake on such struggles between pwer centres, as shown even this week when Pope Benedict appealed to all in Israel/Palestine to follow a path of dialogue in order to achieve peace (see here: "Pope: stop the 'tragic violence' in the Gaza Strip and against Israeli cities" at -
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=9316&geo=24&size=A )

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[gnh]

WOW G V

Always so profound, I am lost in the jungle of your arguments .....

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: sangk...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sangk...@googlegroups.com] On

[Gerard Vincent]

Wah, gnh, you want to say I swallowed a dictionary, is it? ;-(

WOW G V

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sangkancillers

Stephen Tan

___________________________________________________________

[gnh]

Dear G V

You have swallowed AND DIGESTED the dictionaries Webster/Oxford/Chambers ...

............ and I am getting the indigestion .....

BUT carry on G V the Mighty !

( Not Almighty -- ok ! ? )

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Stephen Tan]

My dear Gerald Vincent
Admittedly, not all religions were involved in the creation of the two World Wars of 1913-18
and 1938-1945.You can see for yourself the background of the main protagonists of the said
wars. Admittedly also, there were other considerations, factors you have brought out, and
others including the balance of power and the balance of terror.

At the end of the day, religion MAY moderate our leap into the abyss. The two World Wars
show that it cannot because the decision lies with the politicians. So if we have power-crazy
politicians, we have a real problem.
I do not propose to defend my notion that "religion" is man-made while "spirituality" is something
personal, simply because the limited time we have should never be wasted in indulging in verbal
and semantic acrobatics. That you have included the phrase "personal spirituality" speaks for itself.
Let me end by sending my warmest regards to you and your family and all sangkillers, including
but not limited to Dr Gong.
Stephen Tan

---

> Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 08:57:18 +0000
> From: geeve...@yahoo.co.uk

> Subject: [sangkancil] Re: POPE MEETS IRAN'S KHATAMI

> To: sangk...@googlegroups.com

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