Vasishtha of Rigveda and Ramayana

[Jaideep Joshi]

Namaste!

I came across the following dilemma while looking at Rigvedic king
lists. The Vasishtha (composer of Mandala 7) is a Rishi of King Sudas
(as is Vishvamitra of Mandala 3). Sudas is a contemporary of Purukutsa
of the Ikshvaku dynasty. Now Vasishtha is also the guru of Rama, whom
the puranas place several generations after Purukutsa. Now are these
two Vasishthas different? If not, there is contradiction as stated
above.

What do the puranas/brahmanas say about this? Please reply with references.

praNAmAni,
Jaideep

[Arvind_Kolhatkar]

Jaideep,

I cannot give you the answer in the form you want but I can see why
giving an answer in the form you want is difficult.

Record-keeping in the sense we know it today must have been a very
difficult thing in the past. This was for a variety of reasons. Lack
of writing/recording material that would last long, instability caused
by political changes, natural calamities leading to destruction and
many such causes come to mind at once. Not the least of these was the
comparative absence of awareness of the usefulness of preserving
records.

To take an example, reflect over your own previous generations. I am
almost certain that you cannot trace your ancestors back beyond a span
of 150 to 200 years. This happens even within the same family and
will happen with a greater certainty with names going back into the
distant past. I am sure a few thousand people today would be
carrying the genes of Kalidasa and are his descendants, but do they
realise that? No, because records have not been maintained, for a
myriad of reasons. It is therefore no wonder that we cannot connect
one VasiShTha of the Vedas with another of the Ramayana, both these
periods falling far before Kalidasa.

Physical law tells us that they were two different persons, just
sharing the same name, which is not an impossibility. It is like
sharing a surname over generations. But if I am asked to prove or
disprove this statement, I plead lack of material as my reason why I
cannot do so.

Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, June 16, 2011.

[Sunder Hattangadi]

Namaste,

 

        Vasishtha, Rama's Guru, is a part of recorded history.

 

        Vedas existed before both of them, are a-historical (and 'apauruSheya').

Therefore, it would stand to reason that Vasishtha to whom the Veda was revealed (not 'composed') is different than the one referred to in Ramayana.

 

        I would not seek for further references.

 

 

Regards,

 

sunder

 

 

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[Shambhu]

Namasthe.

What is meant by ‘Rigvedic king lists’? They are, I guess, debatable
interpretations. In the view of the Veda practitioners, there are no
such human names in all of the rik samhita mantras. Indra, Divodasa,
Varuna, etc. in the rik all are cosmic entities.

The name of vasiSTa appears as one of the ten prajApatis created by
creator Brahma in the early universe (time-wise, might have been even
around the ‘big bang’ stage).

ahaM prajAH sisRRikSustu tapastaptvA sudushcharam
patInprajAnAmasRRijaM maharSInAdito dasha
marIchimatrya~Ngirasau pulastyaM pulahaM kratum
prachetasaM vasiSTaM cha bhRRiguM nAradameva cha (manusmRRiti 1-34,35)

yo devAnAm prathamaM purasdAdvishAdhiyo rudro maharSiH |
hiraNyagarbhaM pashshyata jAyamAnagM sano
devashshubhayA smRRityA saMyunaktu || – mahAnArAyaNopanishad

It was several billion years later to these ten prajApatis or rudra
maharSi that the svAyambhuva manvantara (i.e., the first age of the
human creatures) commenced.

The sages of the puraNas named the ‘ruling’ devatas and RRiSis for
each manvantara (71 chaturyuga-long). These RRiSis too are devatas
(sAdhyA RRiSayashchaye - rik). The seven RRiSis of the third
manvantara were stated to have been vasiSTa’s sons. The list of seven
RRiSis of the current (seventh) manvantara also has a vasiSTa. All
these vasiSTas and the ‘ruling’ saptarSis “living” long for each
manvantara were/are not human beings. The vasiSTa RRiSi of the samhita
mantras may or may not refer to a human sage of same name (when we
engage in the RRiSi-Chandas-devataa issues of a mantra). However, each
of the sages through whom these mantras were revealed would have been
referred to as a VasishTa (by his disciples and the then society in
general) after his mantra revelations. The gotra scheme arose from
such human sages. We see such naming in the case of Devavrata (called
as daivarAto vishvAmitra), the RRiSi of Chandodarshana (1912). This is
the method in the shAstras and in the vaidika practice of tracing a
shruti to an original jIvAtman (in a deva or a human); it is revealed
through the same jIvAtman from time to time. Most of samhita mantra
revelations were in earlier kRRita yugas. Astronomical references in
some brAhmaNa texts (the earliest Veda commentaries) place such texts
to 8000-10,000 BC! Vedas they were referring to must have been older
still.

Moreover, the many vasiSTas or the vishvAmitras appearing in the Vedas
and puraNas refer to different persons with such family names
belonging to different times (may even be separated by quite a few
manvantaras). As I quoted above, the early ones also refer to the
divine (non-human) RRishis. Detailed (lifetime) study of the Vedas,
shaastras and puraNas will be needed to figure out who is who (manuSya
vs. deva and in what times).

A human lineage of vasiSTa family was purohita for ikSvAku (time: last
tretAdi) and his lineage. Traditional view is that Shree Raama’s
purohita vasiSTa (in the last tretAnta) wrote the text on Yoga that
bears his name. There is nothing to indicate that he revealed those
samhita mantras bearing ‘vasiSTa’ as the RRiSi name. In the rik
samhitA RRiSi names, we find many human vasiSTas, vishvAmitras,
Angirasas, BharadvAjas, etc. For example, gAthinaH vishvAmitra had his
famous fight with the vasiSTa of that time (during chandra-vamsha king
Harishchandra’s time – long before Sree Raama’s).

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[jaide...@gmail.com]

Thanks!

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Sent from my Nokia phone

[kamalesh pathak]

respected Shambhuji congrates for a detailed and a good reply for the Vasistha,

i just want to ask you there is " BRAAHMAN BHAAG from PAARASKAR GRIHYA SUTRA ,

here we can see the linage of each holy sages . eg. VasisthAt vAsistho , uddAlakaaduddaalaka etc. lesrned members please light up here.

regards,

kamalesh pathak

somnath