I do not understand the place referred to in the first Pada. A person gets
liberation on having a darsan of -- , or by being born in Tiruvarur, or by
his last days in Kasi/ Varanasi or by merely thinking of Arunachaeswar the
presiding deity of Tiruvannamalai.
With reverence to the scholars
R Subrahmanian
On 8 August 2012 21:17, Sunder Hattangadi <sund...@yahoo.com> wrote:
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Meaning: darSanam (of Nataraja Swamy in) the resplendent celestial court ('chit sabha' or 'kanaka sabha' = Chidambaram), birth in the abode of kamala (Tiruvarur, the place of Lord Tyagaraja (Siva) and Goddess Kamalamba temple), death in Kasi result in liberation, while remembering aruNaachalam itself results in liberation!
SlOkam from aruNaachala maahaatmyam, Skanda Puranam.
ascribed to the talks of Ramanamaharshi, related to Arunachaleshvara.
Five bhuta=linga-s are popularly known, of which only four are listed in the verse. Anyhow the second deals with the deeper meaning intended by the verse.
काशी and अरुणाचल are popular, as वाराणसी and अरुणाचल - तिरुवण्णामलै. अभ्रसद्स् is known otherwise चिदम्बरसभा also, in Tamil simply चिदम्बरम्. The forms सदसि or सदसः does not make much difference, but grammatically सदसः becomes fit. For the others the case ending is common. The remaining is कमलालय as we can see from the two links and according to Subrahmania, it is another name for Thiruvavuur, the popular birth place of Tyagaraja, famous for its Aradhana festival.
The one left out from the list of five, is काळहस्तीश्वर temple, totally making पञ्चभूतक्षेत्र-s referred to in one of the कृति-s by Muthusvami Dikshitar. And, the other अभ्रसदस् is shifted to एकाम्बरेश्वर in Kanchivaram.
What I could not follow is how कमलालय refers to thiruvayur. It can be referring to Thamaraikulam also in Kanyakumari dist. North Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Shiva and South Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Devi. which is directly translated to Sanskrit would give the exact name कमलालय as in the verse. The omission of the fifth one of the Pancabhuta-s, in the quoted verse makes the four temples in the verse also referring to Shiva, but only it glorifies अरुणाचलेश्वर makes this guess also possible. It is ascribed to Purana. May be some "sthalapurana" of Arunachala.
Hope this throws some light on it.
-- *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D., **Research Scholar, * Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry 16 & 19, Rue Dumas Pondichéry - 605 001
Dear Sri Arvind ji, abhra = rain-clouds (as opposed to megha = clouds without water) saras = a place where water is kept (for example, tank, lake etc) abhra-saras = a place where water/rain-clouds stay = sky = aakaasha-tattva=Chidambaram
The meaning of the verse therefore is: By seeing Chidambaram, one gets mukti.
> ascribed to the talks of Ramanamaharshi, related to Arunachaleshvara.
> Five bhuta=linga-s are popularly known, of which only four are listed in > the verse. Anyhow the second deals with the deeper meaning intended by the > verse.
> काशी and अरुणाचल are popular, as वाराणसी and अरुणाचल - तिरुवण्णामलै. > अभ्रसद्स् is known otherwise चिदम्बरसभा also, in Tamil simply चिदम्बरम्. > The forms सदसि or सदसः does not make much difference, but grammatically > सदसः becomes fit. For the others the case ending is common. The remaining > is कमलालय as we can see from the two links and according to Subrahmania, it > is another name for Thiruvavuur, the popular birth place of Tyagaraja, > famous for its Aradhana festival.
> The one left out from the list of five, is काळहस्तीश्वर temple, totally > making पञ्चभूतक्षेत्र-s referred to in one of the कृति-s by Muthusvami > Dikshitar. And, the other अभ्रसदस् is shifted to एकाम्बरेश्वर in > Kanchivaram.
> What I could not follow is how कमलालय refers to thiruvayur. It can be > referring to Thamaraikulam also in Kanyakumari dist. North Thamaraikulam is > dedicated to Shiva and South Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Devi. which is > directly translated to Sanskrit would give the exact name कमलालय as in the > verse. The omission of the fifth one of the Pancabhuta-s, in the quoted > verse makes the four temples in the verse also referring to Shiva, but only > it glorifies अरुणाचलेश्वर makes this guess also possible. It is ascribed to > Purana. May be some "sthalapurana" of Arunachala.
> Hope this throws some light on it.
> -- > *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> * > Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
> Pondichéry - 605 001
I have not heard of the differentiation between अभ्र and मेघ both given as synonyms in most of the kosha-s. "अभ्रं मेघो वारिवाहः" which can mean अभ्र is the मेघ carrying the water. By contrast you must have deduced मेघ is without water. But commentators are silent on this point.
and "स्तनयित्नुर्बलाहकः" बलाहक would the one thundering cloud in the same token.
Etymologically, न भ्रश्यन्ति आपः यस्मात् - इति पौराणिकाः। अपो बिभर्ति इति अभ्रम्। But the कनकसभा is also popular. Anyhow with the reading सरस्, it would mean the sky, the storage of clouds. metaphorically, the sky.
and मेघ means raining cloud etymologically, derived from the verb मिह सेचने, to shower, rain. In either case, it doesn't change the metaphorical meaning of सरस्.
अभ्रसदस् - can also mean चिदम्बरसभा = कनकसभा;
"अभ्रं मेघे च गगने धातुभेदे च काञ्चने।"
also it directly means the sky also as per the above line quoted in the commentary, without the necessity of the periphrastic interpretation of the reading अभ्रसरस् to mean sky. चिदम्बर is the metaphysical appellation of the deity.
It could also directly refer to the कनकसभा = अभ्रसभा, as अभ्र can mean कनक or gold, from the above cited line.
Hope this clarifies both the readings. As noticed by another member, the source for the verse is to be found in Skandapurana.
Anyhow, there is question of correctness between the two readings, as Aravindji had already remarked in one of his postings. Both have the same meaning, referring to चिदम्बर temple location or the installed नटराज in the कनकसभा, or अभ्रसदस्. चिदम्बरम् is the pure crystal शिवलिङ्ग there and नटराज is installed in the auditorium in front, probably referred to as कनकसभा in the क्रुति-s by Carnatic saints.
-- *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D., **Research Scholar, * Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry 16 & 19, Rue Dumas Pondichéry - 605 001
if one seeing the chithsaba Natarajar in chidhambaram, will get libration. (dharshanath dhabra saras or dharsanath dhabra saba)
if one borns at kamalalaya i.e. in thiruvaroor, will gets libration (mukthi)
if one dead in kaasi or varanasi, will get mukthi.
if one just think the holy town thiruvannamalai at tamilnadu, will get mukthi.
apart from the above sloka, some more temple are related for mukthi kshethram. for eg. if one walks at madurai, will get mukthi. (because lord shiva plays 64 thiruvilaiyadal (giving bless) at madurai. & if one lives at kaandhipuram, will get mukthi.
above sloka represent, the easiest way to get mukthi i.e. one can get mukthi when he think about thiruvannamalai. because it is very difficult, one could born at thiruvarur, one could dead at kaasi, one can have dharshan of chidhambaram. But every one can easily think about thiruvannamalai.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:44 PM, NATARAJAN DHANDAPANI SWAMY <
>> To post to this group, send email to samskrita@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
Many thanks to all for the enlightening responses.
Regards,
sunder
________________________________ From: Dev Raj <rde...@gmail.com> To: samskrita@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Re: Verse meaning
On Wednesday, 8 August 2012 18:32:48 UTC-7, Hnbhat B.R. wrote: >>> What I could not follow is how कमलालय refers to thiruvayur.<<<
The Kund [pushkariNi] of TiruvArUr temple is called KamalAlaya and Devi is KamalAmba.
>ascribed to the talks of Ramanamaharshi, related to Arunachaleshvara.
>Five bhuta=linga-s are popularly known, of which only four are listed in the verse. Anyhow the second deals with the deeper meaning intended by the verse.
>काशी and अरुणाचल are popular, as वाराणसी and अरुणाचल - तिरुवण्णामलै. अभ्रसद्स् is known otherwise चिदम्बरसभा also, in Tamil simply चिदम्बरम्. The forms सदसि or सदसः does not make much difference, but grammatically सदसः becomes fit. For the others the case ending is common. The remaining is कमलालय as we can see from the two links and according to Subrahmania, it is another name for Thiruvavuur, the popular birth place of Tyagaraja, famous for its Aradhana festival.
>The one left out from the list of five, is काळहस्तीश्वर temple, totally making पञ्चभूतक्षेत्र-s referred to in one of the कृति-s by Muthusvami Dikshitar. And, the other अभ्रसदस् is shifted to एकाम्बरेश्वर in Kanchivaram.
>What I could not follow is how कमलालय refers to thiruvayur. It can be referring to Thamaraikulam also in Kanyakumari dist. North Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Shiva and South Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Devi. which is directly translated to Sanskrit would give the exact name कमलालय as in the verse. The omission of the fifth one of the Pancabhuta-s, in the quoted verse makes the four temples in the verse also referring to Shiva, but only it glorifies अरुणाचलेश्वर makes this guess also possible. It is ascribed to Purana. May be some "sthalapurana" of Arunachala.
>Hope this throws some light on it.
>-- >Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D., >Research Scholar,
>Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry >16 & 19, Rue Dumas >Pondichéry - 605 001
>--
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Among the most infomative words of Bhattji, I beg to differ in one small respect. The 'Thyagaraja' and Thiruvarur [Kamalalayam] is different from Saint Thiagaraja the composer of Thiruvaiyaru. Lord Thyagaraja is said to have performed Ajapa natanam at Thiruvarur, famous among other things, for the chariot. Thiruvaiyaru is the place of Saint Thiagaraja who authored numerous immortal 'keertanas' and lived about 200 years ago.
With Respects R Subrahmanian
On 9 August 2012 20:25, Sunder Hattangadi <sund...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ascribed to the talks of Ramanamaharshi, related to Arunachaleshvara.
> Five bhuta=linga-s are popularly known, of which only four are listed in > the verse. Anyhow the second deals with the deeper meaning intended by the > verse.
> काशी and अरुणाचल are popular, as वाराणसी and अरुणाचल - तिरुवण्णामलै. > अभ्रसद्स् is known otherwise चिदम्बरसभा also, in Tamil simply चिदम्बरम्. > The forms सदसि or सदसः does not make much difference, but grammatically > सदसः becomes fit. For the others the case ending is common. The remaining > is कमलालय as we can see from the two links and according to Subrahmania, it > is another name for Thiruvavuur, the popular birth place of Tyagaraja, > famous for its Aradhana festival.
> The one left out from the list of five, is काळहस्तीश्वर temple, totally > making पञ्चभूतक्षेत्र-s referred to in one of the कृति-s by Muthusvami > Dikshitar. And, the other अभ्रसदस् is shifted to एकाम्बरेश्वर in > Kanchivaram.
> What I could not follow is how कमलालय refers to thiruvayur. It can be > referring to Thamaraikulam also in Kanyakumari dist. North Thamaraikulam is > dedicated to Shiva and South Thamaraikulam is dedicated to Devi. which is > directly translated to Sanskrit would give the exact name कमलालय as in the > verse. The omission of the fifth one of the Pancabhuta-s, in the quoted > verse makes the four temples in the verse also referring to Shiva, but only > it glorifies अरुणाचलेश्वर makes this guess also possible. It is ascribed to > Purana. May be some "sthalapurana" of Arunachala.
> Hope this throws some light on it.
> -- > *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D., > **Research Scholar, > * > Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry > 16 & 19, Rue Dumas > Pondichéry - 605 001
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "samskrita" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/samskrita/-/GkrjL13YSb0J. > To post to this group, send email to samskrita@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "samskrita" group. > To post to this group, send email to samskrita@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Subrahmanian R <subrahmani...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Namaste.
> Among the most infomative words of Bhattji, I beg to differ in one small
> respect.
> The 'Thyagaraja' and Thiruvarur [Kamalalayam] is different from Saint
> Thiagaraja the composer of Thiruvaiyaru. Lord Thyagaraja is said to have
> performed Ajapa natanam at Thiruvarur, famous among other things, for the
> chariot. Thiruvaiyaru is the place of Saint Thiagaraja who authored
> numerous immortal 'keertanas' and lived about 200 years ago.
> With Respects
> R Subrahmanian
Sorry for my confusion and thanks for the clarification.
-- *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
**Research Scholar,
*
Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
16 & 19, Rue Dumas
Pondichéry - 605 001
On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 7:06 AM, Hnbhat B.R. <hnbha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Subrahmanian R <subrahmani...@gmail.com>wrote:
>> Namaste.
>> Among the most infomative words of Bhattji, I beg to differ in one small
>> respect.
>> The 'Thyagaraja' and Thiruvarur [Kamalalayam] is different from Saint
>> Thiagaraja the composer of Thiruvaiyaru. Lord Thyagaraja is said to have
>> performed Ajapa natanam at Thiruvarur, famous among other things, for the
>> chariot. Thiruvaiyaru is the place of Saint Thiagaraja who authored
>> numerous immortal 'keertanas' and lived about 200 years ago.
>> With Respects
>> R Subrahmanian
> Sorry for my confusion and thanks for the clarification.
> --
> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> *
> Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
> Pondichéry - 605 001
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "samskrita" group.
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Saram is found in Tamil; it means compilation or threaded flowers ( together as seen in a garland)
it has both the ends free and can be tied to make look like garland
On Friday, August 17, 2012 3:25:47 PM UTC+5:30, Hnbhat B.R. wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Samba <saa...@gmail.com <javascript:>>wrote:
>> doesn't 'saram' means 'garland' thus making 'abhrasaram' = 'chain of >> clouds'?
>> Regards,
>> Samba
> In which language did you find the meaning "garland" for the word "saram"? > or in which Sanskrit dictionary did you find the word to mean the garland?
> I think it is सरस् and not "saram" in the verse as a Sanskrit word.
>> --
> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> * > Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
> Pondichéry - 605 001
> Saram is found in Tamil; it means compilation or threaded flowers (
> together as seen in a garland)
> it has both the ends free and can be tied to make look like garland
> Regards
> rajagopal
> On Friday, August 17, 2012 3:25:47 PM UTC+5:30, Hnbhat B.R. wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Samba <saa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> doesn't 'saram' means 'garland' thus making 'abhrasaram' = 'chain of
>>> clouds'?
>>> Regards,
>>> Samba
>> In which language did you find the meaning "garland" for the word
>> "saram"? or in which Sanskrit dictionary did you find the word to mean the
>> garland?
>> I think it is सरस् and not "saram" in the verse as a Sanskrit word.
>>> --
>> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
>> **Research Scholar,
>> *
>> Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
>> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
>> Pondichéry - 605 001
> To post to this group, send email to samskrita@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
-- *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
**Research Scholar,
*
Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
16 & 19, Rue Dumas
Pondichéry - 605 001
Sorry for the delayed response, i did check this list for quite a few days;
and again, accept my apologies for my double-fault.
First it was for having confused between 'saras' and 'saram'; and then for
confusing as to the origin of the word 'saram' which i somehow always
thought was a Sanskrit word but seems to be native to south indian langues.
Need to check if it has its roots in Prakrit though.
On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Hnbhat B.R. <hnbha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The word for which meaning is requested is a Sanskrit verse and I don't
> think the Tamil word "sara" should be found in the Sanskrit verse.
> On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Rajagopal Haran <hrajagopal2...@gmail.com
> > wrote:
>> Dear Sir
>> Saram is found in Tamil; it means compilation or threaded flowers (
>> together as seen in a garland)
>> it has both the ends free and can be tied to make look like garland
>> Regards
>> rajagopal
>> On Friday, August 17, 2012 3:25:47 PM UTC+5:30, Hnbhat B.R. wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Samba <saa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> doesn't 'saram' means 'garland' thus making 'abhrasaram' = 'chain of
>>>> clouds'?
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Samba
>>> In which language did you find the meaning "garland" for the word
>>> "saram"? or in which Sanskrit dictionary did you find the word to mean the
>>> garland?
>>> I think it is सरस् and not "saram" in the verse as a Sanskrit word.
>>>> --
>>> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
>>> **Research Scholar,
>>> *
>>> Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
>>> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
>>> Pondichéry - 605 001
>> To post to this group, send email to samskrita@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> samskrita+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
> --
> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> *
> Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
> 16 & 19, Rue Dumas
> Pondichéry - 605 001
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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Even if it can be derived from Sanskrit or Prakrit word, in the verse,
three syllables are needed - either सदसः or सरसः, and सरं or सरम् would not
fill in the verse. And for meaning also they will give different things in
Sanskrit, and also the meaning given by you is not one of those in
Sanskrit. It is not only a question of etymology or derivation, but
metrical requirement also that counts in the verse.
-- *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
**Research Scholar,
*
Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry
16 & 19, Rue Dumas
Pondichéry - 605 001
