patatra

[P.K.Ramakrishnan]

This is the derivation of the word patatra given by Thomas Bellout British linguist  giving numerous English words of Sanskrit origin. feather – patatra – pat to fall – tra there , to beyond. Thus feather is an instrument of flying beyond. I had learnt earlier that the derivation as patanaat traayate in patatra. That which protects (the bird) from falling. I request the leaned members to give their opinion on this.   ----------------------------------- P.K.Ramakrishnan http://peekayar.blogspot.com

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 3:10 PM, P.K.Ramakrishnan <peek...@yahoo.com> wrote:

This is the derivation of the word patatra given by Thomas Bellout British linguist  giving numerous English words of Sanskrit origin. feather – patatra – pat to fall – tra there , to beyond. Thus feather is an instrument of flying beyond. I had learnt earlier that the derivation as patanaat traayate in patatra. That which protects (the bird) from falling. I request the leaned members to give their opinion on this.

The learned scholar Bhanuji Dikshita, grand son of Bhattoji Dikshita, gives his derivation as follows:

 पतन्तं त्रायते इति पतत्रम्। 

commenting on the Amara line:

"पत्त्रं पतत्त्रं च तनूरुहम्"

The derivation is from the root पत् +शतृ - पतत् + त्रैङ् पालने (भ्वादि २८१) +

"आतोऽनुपसर्गे कः" (३.२.३);

or पत् + अत्रन् (उणादिः) - 

पतन्ति अनेन इति करणे अत्रन्। बाहुलकात्।

any other derivation may be given if possible. But I can't follow your argument or derivation you have learnt. 

Mr.Nityananda may offer detailed प्रक्रिया of the above derivation given by Bhanuji dikshita or any other derivation.

----------------------------------- P.K.Ramakrishnan http://peekayar.blogspot.com

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Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
Research Scholar(Retd),

Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry

16 & 19, Rue Dumas

[Hnbhat B.R.]

The second derivation पत् + अत्रन् is according to 3.105 of उणादिसूत्र (पञ्चपदी) - पतिभ्योऽत्रन् (३.१०५) Dashagani Unadi ; 8.56 - 

अमि-नक्षि-यजि-वधि-पतिभ्योऽत्रन्"(८.५६)

and the word पतत्र is used in different meanings according to the scholar Mahadeva:

aah

"पतत्रं वाहने पक्षिपक्षे वर्णे नभस्यपि" in the sense of chariot, (cart or any carrier), the feather of birds, letter and sky.

The last two meanings are to be looked for in the vast literature. 

पत्लृ - पतने (भ्वादि ५७०) पतन्त्यन्तेन इति पतत्त्रम् - by that they fly, the feather. Or the means of carriage.

उज्ज्वलदत्त् gives the above meaning and this is intended by भानुजी also बाहुलक and the variant usages of the word derived is listed by Mahadeva in his उणादिपदार्णव as above.

The verb पत् means to move only. It is a verb of general motion and conveniently used in different contexts.

and gives rise to different meanings.   

[P.K.Ramakrishnan]

There is not much difference between  पतनात् त्रायते  and  पतंतम् त्रायते ----------------------------------- P.K.Ramakrishnan http://peekayar.blogspot.com --- On Wed, 15/5/13, Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 8:22 AM, P.K.Ramakrishnan <peek...@yahoo.com> wrote:

There is not much difference between  पतनात् त्रायते  and  पतंतम् त्रायते ----------------------------------- P.K.Ramakrishnan http://peekayar.blogspot.com

The first is not grammatical derivation of the word पतत्त्र you you wished to have because you cannot get it from पतनात् त्रायते, but on the other hand you will get only पतन+त्र > पतनत्र with the explanation you have offerred.

I have given the twp explanations by two grammarians in two ways. The first is पतन्तं त्रायते इति पतत्त्रम् - that protects the bird while flying (fram falling down), which is the just explanation fitting the derivation. And not पतन्तं as you have suggested. This is the difference which is not great for a non-grammarian. Both would give two different words as the grammarians have explained and not by myself. The first gives the word पतन+त्र - पतनत्र which is not the word you want and the two derivations given given by grammarians give the word पतत्त्र or पतत्र meaning the feather and several other meanings, in both the derivations which may not be great for you. 

I have no opinion, but other members may pass their opinion on your strange remark