Please answer this simple query

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

One of my Japanese friends wanted to know the formation of the word
Samskrita. Is it a Karmani BhootKaalwachak Dhatusadhit Visheshan from
Sam+Kru?


Please give the detailed analysis of formation of the word "Samskrita"

[Hnbhat B.R.]

saM+s+krUta - samskrUta. Meaning refined when used as adjectived, the infix of "s" being added in the sense of "to make one self fit"  alaM+karaNa - embellishing, beautifying. It is past participle of the verb prefixed with saM+krU. I could not type in devanagari, and hence it  It is conventionally used as substantive for Sanskrit language.

Hope this is useful.

--
Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
Research Scholar,

Ecole française d'Extrême-OrientCentre de Pondichéry

16 & 19, Rue Dumas

Pondichéry - 605 001

[Eddie Hadley]

Dr,

  Regarding the -s- inserted into saṃskṛta.

  In trying to understand the reason for its occurrence, I find the following:

pari-ṣ-√ kṛ

      • (ṣ for s inserted, or perhaps original in a √ skṛ = √ 1. kṛ, cf. upa-skṛ and saṃ-s-kṛ), P. -kṛṇoti (3. pl. -kṛṇvanti, ṚV. ix, 14, 2; 64, 23; p. -kṛṇvat, ib. 39, 2.

      • impf. pary-aṣkarot, or -askarot, Pāṇ. 8-3, 70; 71), to adorn, fit out, prepare, make ready or perfect, ṚV. (cf. pari-kṛ and, Pāṇ. 6-1, 137). [603,1]

 

skṛ

      • = √ 1. kṛ, in upa-, pari-, and saṃskṛ. [1257,1]

 

But I don’t understand why it’s there. Is it perhaps simply for euphony, ease of pronunciation?

 

 

saṃ

-skṛta

   • refined, adorned, ornamented, polished, highly elaborated (esp. applied to highly wrought speech, such as the Saṃskṛta language as opp., to the vernaculars), Mn. MBh. &c.

For Sam+s+krUta, did you intend saM+s+kR^ita (saṃ-s-skṛta)?

 

 

Best regards,

 

   Eddie

[Eddie Hadley]

Here, with the root as mentioned. Where the -s- is isolated, and there is also a cross ref. to saṃ-skṛta, but again, no explanation?

Pāṇ. also gets a mention as usual, but . . .

 

saṃ-s-√ 1. kṛ
• (cf. saṃ-kṛ; upa-s-kṛ and pari-ṣ-kṛ), P. Ā. -skaroti, -skurute (impf. sam-askurvata, TS.; pf. saṃ-caskāra, Nir.
. . .

      • to adorn, embellish, refine, elaborate, make perfect, (esp.) form language according to strict rules (cf. saṃ-skṛta), Sarvad.
. . .

 

Eddie

[Yaajushi]

Hello urmila

i think 'karmani bhootkalwachak dhatusadhit visheshan' is a very non-sanskrit description of the format, normally used in maharashtra state board curriculum :P but yes, thats what it is :) as per sanskrit grammar terminology, it is called 'निष्ठान्त-रूपम्' (क्तान्त-रूपम्) of the root sam+kRu.

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Life is beautiful.... always

[Nityanand Misra]

It's not euphonics, for the addition of -s- is only in certain contexts, and not all. The sutras are

6.1.131 suṭ kātpūrvaḥ सुट् कात्पूर्वः
6.1.132 samparibhyāṃ karotau bhūṣaṇe सम्परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे
6.1.133 samavāye ca समवाये च

For words like संस्कर्ता and परिष्कर्ता, 6.1.132 is the relevant sutra.
For words like संस्कृतम् and परिष्कृतम्, 6.1.133 is the relevant sutra.

You may refer the English commentaries on these for more details.

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Nityānanda Miśra
http://nmisra.googlepages.com

|| आत्मा तत्त्वमसि श्वेतकेतो ||
(Thou art from/for/of/in That Ātman, O Śvetaketu)
     - Ṛṣi Uddālaka to his son, Chāndogyopaniṣad 6.8.7, The Sāma Veda

[Nityanand Misra]

Examples where extra -s- is not added

सङ्कार which is parsed as सम् + कृ + घञ्. Even संस्कार has the same break-up, i.e. सम् + कृ + घञ् but with the सुट् आगम in the sense of refinement or भूषणे.

परिकर्तृ which is without सुट् आगम - compare with परिष्कर्तृ which is with the सुट् आगम.

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

Thanks so much for your help.

On Jan 15, 2:59 am, "Hnbhat B.R." <hnbha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> saM+s+krUta - samskrUta. Meaning refined when used as adjectived, the infix
> of "s" being added in the sense of "to make one self fit"  alaM+karaNa -
> embellishing, beautifying. It is past participle of the verb prefixed with
> saM+krU. I could not type in devanagari, and hence it  It is conventionally
> used as substantive for Sanskrit language.
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> --

> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> *

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

Thanks so much for your help. Does the letter "s" imply "one self" ?
or is it just used for bridging Sam and Kru and for the ease of
pronunciation? Please provide guidance. Can "Namaskrutam" be another
example of such kind where it is a past participle of the verb meaning
to bow down. Please can you provide example of where the infix of s
is there in the words? The Japanese friend of ours is a Buddhist Monk
and will be delighted to know more...and I would consider it a
privilege to know more in this regard. Thanks once again for the help
on this Samskrita Google Group.

On Jan 15, 2:59 am, "Hnbhat B.R." <hnbha...@gmail.com> wrote:

> saM+s+krUta - samskrUta. Meaning refined when used as adjectived, the infix
> of "s" being added in the sense of "to make one self fit"  alaM+karaNa -
> embellishing, beautifying. It is past participle of the verb prefixed with
> saM+krU. I could not type in devanagari, and hence it  It is conventionally
> used as substantive for Sanskrit language.
>
> Hope this is useful.
>
> --

> *Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,
> **Research Scholar,
> *

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

Thanks for your help.

On Jan 15, 8:04 am, Yaajushi <yaaju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello urmila
> i think 'karmani bhootkalwachak dhatusadhit visheshan' is a very
> non-sanskrit description of the format, normally used in maharashtra state
> board curriculum :P but yes, thats what it is :) as per sanskrit grammar
> terminology, it is called 'निष्ठान्त-रूपम्' (क्तान्त-रूपम्) of the root
> sam+kRu.
>
> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:11 PM, Urmila Joshi-Phadnis

> <urmila...@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
> > One of my Japanese friends wanted to know the formation of the word
> > Samskrita.  Is it a Karmani BhootKaalwachak Dhatusadhit Visheshan from
> > Sam+Kru?
>
> > Please give the detailed analysis of formation of the word "Samskrita"
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "samskrita" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to sams...@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
>
> --

> Life is beautiful.... always- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

Thanks for your inputs and help. Can you please help understanding the
word Puraskrutam meaning awarded?

On Jan 15, 6:58 am, "Eddie Hadley" <EddieHad...@Ontology.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

[Eddie Hadley]

Nityānanda,

 

==>

6.1.131 suṭ kātpūrvaḥ सुट् कात्पूर्वः
6.1.132 samparibhyāṃ karotau bhūṣaṇe सम्परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे
6.1.133 samavāye ca समवाये च

==>

 

The number I have for samavāye ca is 6.1.138.

And English is hard to come by, but in French:

(L'accrément "suṭ" devant un k est valable entre les préverbes sam, pari, upa et la racine kṛ-) aussi pour signifier: assembler.

 

pariṣkṛtam "réuni, combiné".

Whatever.

Would I be correct in understanding that some kind of distinction is being made about such usage.

And here, with our saṃ-s-kṛta, we have samavāye ca, an aggregate – a whole or ‘complete’ thing, a completed/finished/perfected thing.

Which, according to Kāśika, is to be distinguished from some other usage, as referred to in those previous sūtras?

 

Eddie

 

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 9:34 PM, Yaajushi <yaaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello urmila

i think 'karmani bhootkalwachak dhatusadhit visheshan' is a very non-sanskrit description of the format, normally used in maharashtra state board curriculum :P but yes, thats what it is :) as per sanskrit grammar terminology, it is called 'निष्ठान्त-रूपम्' (क्तान्त-रूपम्) of the root sam+kRu.

निष्ठा stands for both क्त and क्तवतु the कृत्प्रत्यय०s and both भूते. Hence nothing by technical explanation will meant for a beginner. क्त is both कर्मणि and भावे, and sometimes, कर्तरि. But क्तवतु is always in कर्तरि and never in कर्मणि and भाव. And all the कृत् प्रत्यय-s are prescribed for धातु-s. I purposefully avoided the use of Sanskrit terminology to avoid confusion.

 

Exact explanation will be कर्मणि भावे वा क्तप्रत्ययः।

 There is another thread with quoting rules and etymological explanation at length. 

-- 

Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,

Research Scholar,

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Urmila Joshi-Phadnis <urmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks so much for your help.  Does the letter "s" imply "one self" ?
or is it just used for bridging Sam and Kru and for the ease of
pronunciation? 

Everything is explained in Paninian system in Ashtadhyayi and can be described according to it.

There is another thread with quoting rules and etymological explanation at length. Please refer to it for technical details of this augmentation.

--

Dr. Hari Narayana Bhat B.R. M.A., Ph.D.,

Research Scholar,

[Urmila Joshi-Phadnis]

Thank you for your guidance. But Can you please explain Sut aagam
meaning and rule in a simpler way? meant for a person who does not
have Sanskrita knowledge like me and my Japanese Monk friend? I would
really appreciate it.

On Jan 15, 9:46 am, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Examples where extra -s- is not added
>
> सङ्कार which is parsed as सम् + कृ + घञ्. Even संस्कार has the same
> break-up, i.e. सम् + कृ + घञ् but with the सुट् आगम in the sense of
> refinement or भूषणे.
>
> परिकर्तृ which is without सुट् आगम - compare with परिष्कर्तृ which is with
> the सुट् आगम.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:22 AM, Nityanand Misra <nmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's not euphonics, for the addition of -s- is only in certain contexts,
> > and not all. The sutras are
>
> > 6.1.131 suṭ kātpūrvaḥ सुट् कात्पूर्वः
> > 6.1.132 samparibhyāṃ karotau bhūṣaṇe सम्परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे
> > 6.1.133 samavāye ca समवाये च
>
> > For words like संस्कर्ता and परिष्कर्ता, 6.1.132 is the relevant sutra.
> > For words like संस्कृतम् and परिष्कृतम्, 6.1.133 is the relevant sutra.
>
> > You may refer the English commentaries on these for more details.
>
> > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 10:58 PM, Eddie Hadley <
> > EddieHad...@ontology.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>    Here, with the root as mentioned. Where the -s- is isolated, and

> >> there is also a cross ref. to *saṃ-skṛta*, but again, no explanation?

>
> >> Pāṇ. also gets a mention as usual, but . . .
>

> >> **
>
> >> *saṃ*-*s*-√ 1. *kṛ*
> >> • (cf. *saṃ-kṛ*; *upa-s-kṛ *and *pari-ṣ-kṛ*), *P. Ā. **-skaroti*, *-skurute
> >> *(*impf. **sam-askurvata*, *TS.; **pf. **saṃ-caskāra*, *Nir.*

> >> . . .
>
> >>       • to adorn, embellish, refine, elaborate, make perfect, (esp.)

> >> form language according to strict rules (cf. *saṃ-skṛta*), *Sarvad.*

> >> . . .
>
> >> Eddie
>
> >>  --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "samskrita" group.
> >> To post to this group, send email to sams...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> samskrita+...@googlegroups.com.
> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/samskrita?hl=en.
>
> > --
> > Nityānanda Miśra
> >http://nmisra.googlepages.com
>
> > || आत्मा तत्त्वमसि श्वेतकेतो ||
> > (Thou art from/for/of/in That Ātman, O Śvetaketu)
> >      - Ṛṣi Uddālaka to his son, Chāndogyopaniṣad 6.8.7, The Sāma Veda
>
> --

> Nityānanda Miśrahttp://nmisra.googlepages.com

>
> || आत्मा तत्त्वमसि श्वेतकेतो ||
> (Thou art from/for/of/in That Ātman, O Śvetaketu)

>      - Ṛṣi Uddālaka to his son, Chāndogyopaniṣad 6.8.7, The Sāma Veda- Hide quoted text -

[murthy]

I am not sure if this is relevant. I have felt that one meaning of "samavaaya" is what "inherence" means in programming languages.

Regards

Murthy

--

[धनंजय वैद्य <deejayvaidya@yahoo.com>]

> But I don’t understand why it’s there. Is it perhaps simply for euphony, ease of pronunciation?

It is very likely that the introduction of -s- is for euphony,
possibly a (an?) euphonic idiosyncrasy from an absorbed dialect. The
description by pANini is in a context where many different euphonic
changes are mentioned. In case of euphonic idiosyncrasies remnant from
defunct dialects, or newly introduced from a dialect group that is
just becoming respectable, the "standard" usages are riddled with
confusing rules and exceptions. The introduction of the "-s-" here or
the the "ruki" euphonic cerebralization* both show this large number
of exceptions.

(*I understand that Sanskritists of the Western tradition use the
term "ruki" rule for the transformations described under pANini's
section heading "apadAntasya mUrdhanyaH 8.3.55"="cerebralize except if
end-of-word".)

An interesting feature is SOMETIMES found in the euphonic
idiosyncrasies of mixing dialects. Both "euphonic" forms coexist with
differing meanings or contextualizations. This is probably semantic
baggage carried over from the mixing dialects. The example of the
different meanings of sam+kR and sam-s-kR have been discussed above.
In the past on this email list, we have discussed the different
meanings of "rAmAyaNa" (a proper name, the name of some specific story
of rAma) and "rAmAyana" (the path of rAma - any path, not the name of
a specific path). The n-to-N transformation is clearly euphonic, but
this euphonic transformation brings with it the semantic baggage.

Dhananjay

On Jan 15, 7:41 am, "Eddie Hadley" <EddieHad...@Ontology.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

[Eddie Hadley]

Murthy,

 

==>

I am not sure if this is relevant. I have felt that one meaning of "samavaaya" is what "inherence" means in programming languages.

==>

 

“inheritance” (not "inherence") is one of the three pillars of object-oriented programming.

It is a way to reuse code of existing objects, establish a subtype from an existing object, or both.

 

I would equate the famous anu-vṛtti with inheritance.

 

anu-vṛtti

    •  f. following, acting suitably to, having regard or respect to, complying with, the act of continuance.

    •  (in Pāṇini's Gr.) continued course or influence of a preceding rule on what follows.

    •  reverting to.

    •  imitating, doing or acting in like manner. [39,1]

 

 

As for the (non computer) “inherence” takes us deep into inner space, to a land where anything can mean anything – philosophy.

A land where anything can be assembled and disassembled at will.

 

In reverse engineering a grammatical work, different laws apply. In that land, only grammarians are allowed to assemble at will!

 

 

sam-avāya

•  m. coming or meeting together, contact, concourse, congress, assemblage, collection, crowd, aggregate (ena or āt, 'in combination'; °yaṃ-√ kṛ, 'to meet, combine, flock together'), GṛS. Gaut. Mn.  &c. .

•  conjunction (of heavenly bodies), MBh. VarBṛS.

•  collision , ŚrS. Gaut. Sarvad.

•  (in phil.) perpetual co-inherence, inner or intimate relation, constant and intimate union, inseparable concomitance (= nitya-sambandha, the sixth Padārtha or category of the Vaiśeṣikas, expressing relation which exists between a substance and its qualities, between a whole and its parts. [e.g. between cloth and the yarn composing it], between a genus and its individuals  &c.) , Kap. Jaim. IW. 66; 69 .

•  course, duration (e, with gen., 'during'), MBh. i, 556.

•  -khaṇḍana n. N. of wk.

•  -tas ind. in consequence of constant and intimate connection or relation, MW.

•  -tva n. the state of (being) intimate relation, Kusum.

•  -pramāṇa-vādārtha m. vāda m. N. of wks.

•  -sambandha m. intimate and constant connection, inseparable relation (as described above), connection by inseparable inherence, W. [1157,3]

 

 

For now, I’ll settle for “assemblage, collection, crowd, aggregate”, but I’m open to be persuaded otherwise.

 

Regards,

    Eddie

 

 

From: murthy

Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 7:50 AM

To: sams...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Re: The -s- of saṃ-s-kṛta?

[murthy]

I do not believe in convincing others. In Indian Logic "samavaya sambandha" is quite akin to "inherence" or "inheritance" in Progrmming laguage. You don't have to agree.

Regards

Murthy 

----- Original Message -----

From: Eddie Hadley

To: sams...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Eddie Hadley

--

[Eddie Hadley]

Murthy,

    

     Terminology is specific to its particular field. And cannot simply be transferred to another without causing confusion.

 

    The field is grammar.

    The question is the function of the -s- in the verbal derivative that is ‘saṃ-s-kṛta’.

 

    Pāṇini's Gr. does tend to be very specific in these matters, does he (she?) not?

 

    Presumably the ‘attributes’ are enumerated, and the ‘substance’ in which they ‘inhere’ is identified?

 

Regards,

 

    Eddie

 

[murthy]

OK. I have nothing more to contribute in the matter.

Regards,

Murthy

----- Original Message -----

From: Eddie Hadley

To: sams...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Eddie Hadley

Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 10:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Re: The -s- of saṃ-s-kṛta?

--

[अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः]

नमो नमः !

I think the 's' in संस्कृत is a conjugational (संधि) infliction, happening when a nasal consonant is followed by a consonant of the first order in every phonetic group (harsh कठोर-व्यञ्जन) ।

One can see this at quite a few places in गीता, For example see हत्वार्थकामांस्तु (०२-०५) प्रज्ञावादांश्च (२-११)

Because there is this formula-like behaviour, it must have been explained by some specific सूत्रम् in अष्टाध्यायी. Scholars may please explain quoting the सूत्रम्-number.

सस्नेहम्
अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः ।
"श्रीपतेः पदयुगं स्मरणीयम् ।"
संस्कृताध्ययनम् ।http://slabhyankar.wordpress.com
http://study1geetaa2sanskrit.wordpress.com
उपनिषदध्ययनम् http://upanishat.wordpress.com
http://slez-musings.blogspot.com

[Aditya B.S.A]

नमो नमः

I was just reading a play today where I found 'भवांस्तिष्ठति'। I was looking for the sutra for this, as well. Not sure if the sa-kaara of संस्कृतं is present only upon this principle. 

[Eddie Hadley]

Here are the relevant comments of Kashika that apply with this word.

 

It is apparent that the -s- carries the idea of something that is ‘assembled’, in the sense of something that has been deliberately ‘put together’.

Presumably, in contrast to an assembly that has evolved naturally.

 

So, we have a language that has been designed – an ‘artificial’ or designer language?

 

It should not be forgotten that while the ‘terms’ and ‘rules’ etc. are those of the assembler himself,

he does not give any explanation for the existence of such rules, he merely documents them.

 

Some (rules etc.), make good sense, and can be said to be ‘self-explanatory’, but it has to be said, that the 21st. century CE. term ‘transparent to the user’ does not easily come to the tongue in connection with this particular assemblage.

 

 

Please excuse the French. Google translates it very well, but for one word L'accrément?

 

6.1.136     Adhikāra

    aḍ-abhyāsa-vyavāye'pi.

 

■    Pada-Patha

    aṭ+abhyāsa-vyavāye api.

 

■    Kashika

    aḍvyavāye, abhyāsavyavāye api suṭ kāt pūrvaḥ bhavati. samskarot.samaskārṣīt. sañcaskara. paricaskāra.kimarthaṃ punar idam ucyate, pūrvam dhātur upasargeṇayujyate iti tatra dhātūpasargayoḥ karyam antaraṅgam itipūrvaṃ suṭ kriyate paścād aṅabhyāsau ? abhaktaś ca suṭ ityuktam, tataḥ sakārād uttarāvaḍabhyāsau aniṣṭe deśesyātām. etasmiṃs tu satyata eva vacanāt kṛtayoraḍabhyāsayoḥ tadvyavāye api suṭ kāt pūrvaḥ kriyate iti siddham iṣṭaṃ bhavati

 

■    French Translation

( "suṭ" devant un k est valable) même quand il y a intervention de l'augment verbal (6.4,71) ou du redoublement verbal (1 et suiv.).

 

samaskarot, saṃcaskāra (ṃ 8.3,5), de sam+akarot, cakāra.

 

 

6.1.137     Vidhi

 

    samparyupebhyaḥ karotau bhūṣaṇe.

 

■    Pada-Patha

 

    sam-pari+upebhyaḥ138 karotau139 bhūṣaṇe.

 

 

■    Kashika

    sam pari upa ity etebhyaḥ bhuṣaṇārthe karotau parataḥ suṭ kāt pūrvobhavati. saṃskartā. saṃskartum. saṃskartavyam. atrasaṃpuṃkānāṃ satvam iti samo makārasya sakāraḥ,pūrvasya cākārasya anunāsikaḥ. pariṣkartā. pariṣkartum.pariṣkartavyam. suṭstusvañjām iti ṣatvam. upaskartā.upaskartum. upaskartavyam. bhūṣaṇe iti kim ? upakaroti.sampūrvasya kvacid abhūṣaṇe'api suḍiṣyate, saṃskṛtamannam iti

 

■    French Translation

(L'accrément "suṭ" devant un k est valable) entre les préverbes sam, pari, upa et la racine kṛ- ḍukṛñ 8.10 "faire" pour signifier: orner.

 

saṃskartā "qui orne", pariṣkartum "orner" (ṣ 8.3,70). Parfois on a saṃskṛtam en d'autres sens. La BhV. cite saṃskṛtam au sens de kāryam et donne en cet emploi le mot comme inanalysable.

 

 

6.1.138     Vidhi

 

    samavāye ca.

 

■    Pada-Patha

    samavāye ca.

 

■    Kashika

    samavāyaḥ samudāyaḥ, tasmiṃś cārthe karotau samparyupebhyaḥ kāt pūrvaḥ suḍāgamobhavati. tatra naḥ saṃskṛtam. tatra naḥ pariṣkṛtam. tatra na upaskṛtam. samuditam ity arthaḥ

 

■    French Translation

(L'accrément "suṭ" devant un k est valable entre les préverbes sam, pari, upa et la racine kṛ-) aussi pour signifier: assembler.

 

pariṣkṛtam "réuni, combiné".

 

 

From: अभ्यंकरकुलोत्पन्नः श्रीपादः

Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:41 PM

To: sams...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Re: The -s- of saṃ-s-kṛta?

 

[Nityanand Misra]

The forms भवांस्तिष्ठति, प्रज्ञावादांश्च and हत्वार्थकामांस्तु come from नश्छव्यप्रशान् (8.3.7) followed by अनुनासिकात् परोऽनुस्वारः (8.3.4), then खरवसानयोर्विसर्जनीयः (8.3.15) and विसर्जनीयस्य सः (8.3.34). In case of प्रज्ञावादांश्च the स becomes श on account of स्तोः श्चुना श्चुः (8.4.40).

 

I have already stated that the sutras for संस्कर्ता/परिष्कर्ता and संस्कृतम्/परिष्कृतम् are सुट् कात्पूर्वः (6.1.131), सम्परिभ्यां करोतौ भूषणे (6.1.132) and समवाये च (6.1.133). Since 6.1.132 is only in the meaning of embellishment/adornment, we also have forms like सङ्कार and परिकर्तृ where no -s- (सुट्) is added.

 

IMHO the question about the Paninian origin of extra -s- is settled. Can we please stop the guessing game and move on?

Sent from my iPhone

[Vimala Sarma]

Dear Eddie

It is not the s which carries the meaning of perfected or elaborated, it is combination of the prefix sam with the root kR which gives this new meaning.

 

As mentioned before by others the s is just an infix to make it possible to pronounce the m in sam as a labial (using the lips) , and  not as the anuswara sang  which may be case with other words.

Vimala

 

 

 

From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eddie Hadley

Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 11:02 AM
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Eddie Hadley

--

[Hnbhat B.R.]

Dear madam,

All the discussion for you out of place, whereas Panini specifically adds this as infix आगम before the "k" in many many modified meanings, as explained by Nityananda, related to this form.

If it is simple "s" just with the prefix, it has no other form - 

as in the case of संकरोति, संकरः, वर्णसंकरः, which carry the same prefix but never used with the same meaning explained for संस्कुरुते. Nowhere, the theoretical form संकार is used for संस्कार as in शब्दसंस्कारः. 

[Vimala Sarma]

I was explaining that is is an infix, and how it is pronounced in the specific word samskRta.

Vimala

 

From: sams...@googlegroups.com [mailto:sams...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hnbhat B.R.
Sent: Thursday, 19 January 2012 3:48 PM
To: sams...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Samskrita] Re: The -s- of saṃ-s-kṛta?

 

Dear madam,

--

[Aditya B.S.A]

नमो नमः

As Nityanand mahodaya said, the 's' does carry the import of samavaaya and bhushaNa. From my rudimentary understanding of samskaara, and from the fact that samskurute and samkaroti and samkara are not used in the same meaning, as Dr. Bhat said, I understand that the 's' in samskruta connotes the idea that the language as a whole is not a mere sum of its parts, but a greater entity. In Laghu Paniniyam, I've attached a part where it says 'gnyaapakaadarthaantareshu api sut' in relation to 'samkruta bhasha.' Scholars may please explain this arthaantara. What is certain is that 's' does carry a great amount of meaning, but of the manner, I think, which might not be objectively understood. 

आदित्यः 

[Aditya B.S.A]

Uncanny typo. I meant 'samskruta bhasha.' Just clarifying so no-one thinks I deliberately left that out. 

[Hnbhat B.R.]

At any rate, it is doubtful in any meaning it is used as the name of a language as a substantive noun rather than an adjective as an past participle. This had been long ago discussed in this group. Right now I could not locate the thread by searching.

" संस्कृतं भक्षाः । ४. २. १७   is the Panini's rule which prescribes "taddhita" suffixes in the meaning तत्र संस्कृतम् = which is explained by Kashika when it denotes भक्ष 

 खरविशदम् अभ्यवहारार्थं भक्षम् इत्युच्यते। 
सतुत्कर्षाधानम् संस्कारः।

 भ्राष्ट्रे संस्कृता भक्षाः - भ्राष्ट्राः।

 क्षीरे संस्कृता क्षैरेयी यवागूः।  etc.

This guides to some usages other than भूषण, and समवाय. But doesn't necessarily entail any reference to the name of a language as संस्कृतम् and not samskruta bhasha.

"संस्कारवत्येव गिरा मनीषी तया स पूतश्च विभूषितश्च" is another usage of the word    सं संस्कार which can be conveniently interpreted with the संस्कार-s of the speech words and also human being. Only this much was meant by Rajaraja in his Laghupaniniya, by ज्ञापक which follows the words of काशिका - 

"सम्पूर्वस्य क्वचिदभूषणेऽपि सुट्। under the सूत्र - prescribing सुट्.
संस्कृतं भक्षा इति ज्ञापकात्॥"

Valmiki's usage is here as adjective:

यदि वाचं प्रदास्यामि द्विजातिरिव संस्कृताम् । 
रावणं मन्यमाना मां सीता भीता भविष्यति ।। ३०:१८

Rest is left to guessing or later formation as applied to the Sanskrit language.

[Aditya B.S.A]

Sorry, I'd misread bhaksha as bhasha in a case of wanting to see what I wanted, and not what was there. In any case, that was an interesting clarification. Was this language identified as Samskrutam at the time of Valmiki and at the time of Vyaasa? 

2012/1/19 Hnbhat B.R. <hnbh...@gmail.com>

[Vimala Sarma]

Prefixes often give  a new meaning, and is not necessarily a sam of components.  But see also MW dictionary entry.

Vimala

[Hnbhat B.R.]

No need to refer to MW, the very often quoted verse confirms the ways the prefix can modify the meaning of a given verb WHICH is a given fact:

उपसर्गेण धात्वर्थो बलादन्यत्र नीयते।

प्रहार-आहार-संहार-विहार-परिहार वत् ।।

Sometimes it may not change, but it depends on the convention of the usages. Even without prefix, the derived nouns carry different meanings. हृञ् हरणे, but हारः - garland has nothing to do with the verbal meaning while both हरिः, हरः, have  somehow closer meaning of हरति पापम्, the word हरि has become a case of polysemy:

यमाऽनिलेन्द्रचन्द्रार्कविष्णुसिंहांशुवाजिषु ( ३. ३. ७११) 

शुकाऽहिकपिभेकेषु हरिर्ना कपिले त्रिषु ( ३. ३. ७१२) --
as attested by the above Amara citation which have no relation possible with the verbal meaning. 

==============

[Hnbhat B.R.]

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:22 PM, Aditya B.S.A <amrd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, I'd misread bhaksha as bhasha in a case of wanting to see what I wanted, and not what was there. In any case, that was an interesting clarification. Was this language identified as Samskrutam at the time of Valmiki and at the time of Vyaasa? 

Check this earlier discussion:

https://groups.google.com/group/samskrita/browse_thread/thread/d10bd1362937638d/bb72ef2434101f22?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%22%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BF+%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82%22#bb72ef2434101f22

and this one:

https://groups.google.com/group/samskrita/browse_thread/thread/26620377a11952b2/65b10f66cae302b9?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BF#65b10f66cae302b9

And also a recent message by Mr. PK Ramakrishnan. 

 

https://groups.google.com/group/samskrita/browse_thread/thread/29437388a9bd7c34/98f054fc413f44fb?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%9A%E0%A4%82+%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%A6%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%B8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%BF#98f054fc413f44fb

which has got a similar discussion. 

For certain, we do not know what were the languages present in the कृतयुग and only we know वाल्मीकि reported the history of Rama in Sanskrit Language संस्कृता वाक्,  or दैवी वाक् which is attached with antiquity as गीर्वाणभाषा or देवभाषा. This is attested by the language used in रामायण. So there is no question whether there was संस्कृत भाषा at the time of व्यास or वाल्मीकि as both have come down to us in Sanskrit language to day. 

संस्कृतं नाम दैवी वाक् अन्वाख्याता महर्षिभिः।

which does not suppose any dating as वेद-s are considered as अनादि-s.