Backbone.js vs. sammy vs. others?
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RazzMan
May 16, 2011, 8:48:49 PM5/16/11
to Sammy.js
I'm embarking on developing a large ajax application. It's not going
to be one of those backwards-compatible kind - but a real web app.
I've been looking around for frameworks and libraries to help me out.
Backbone.js seems like it's a full-featured framework, but honestly,
it seems a little over-engineered and I have a hard time understanding
how all the pieces fit together. It's got some good ideas in though.
The one main problem I have with backbone is that I tried to do
something simple - add comments on a page as a test - and I couldn't
get it to work myself. I'm sure I did one small thing wrong, but the
unsettling thing for me was that the browser indicated no Javascript
errors - yet it just didn't work. I am fearful that debugging
backbone.js applications is actually going to be a nightmare if this
is the norm.
Put another way, I would actually rather write more code if my
debugging experience is a lot more enjoyable and less painful.
Can you sell me on using Sammy? Should I just do things from scratch?
For me, I want to be productive. I hate silent errors or things that
make go, "What the F***?" I want to have as enjoyable development
experience as possible. Sometimes that means doing it yourself, and
sometimes that means using a framework if it's of high quality and it
does the job well.
I'd appreciate any suggestions, comments, etc.
to be one of those backwards-compatible kind - but a real web app.
I've been looking around for frameworks and libraries to help me out.
Backbone.js seems like it's a full-featured framework, but honestly,
it seems a little over-engineered and I have a hard time understanding
how all the pieces fit together. It's got some good ideas in though.
The one main problem I have with backbone is that I tried to do
something simple - add comments on a page as a test - and I couldn't
get it to work myself. I'm sure I did one small thing wrong, but the
unsettling thing for me was that the browser indicated no Javascript
errors - yet it just didn't work. I am fearful that debugging
backbone.js applications is actually going to be a nightmare if this
is the norm.
Put another way, I would actually rather write more code if my
debugging experience is a lot more enjoyable and less painful.
Can you sell me on using Sammy? Should I just do things from scratch?
For me, I want to be productive. I hate silent errors or things that
make go, "What the F***?" I want to have as enjoyable development
experience as possible. Sometimes that means doing it yourself, and
sometimes that means using a framework if it's of high quality and it
does the job well.
I'd appreciate any suggestions, comments, etc.
Ryan Crumley
May 17, 2011, 2:56:23 AM5/17/11
to sam...@googlegroups.com
I would recommend GWT if the debugging experience is your priority... Check out some of the Google IO videos to get an idea of what is possible.
Ryan
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justinTNT
May 18, 2011, 3:37:07 AM5/18/11
to Sammy.js
hey Razz,
really, sammy and backbone are very different beasts.
Sammy seems well suited to a website where you're swapping in
templated elements on the page,
whereas backbone is for holding complex state in a webapp managing a
variety of data.
I'm using sammy, not backbone, because I decided that what I'm doing
fits the former.
In those rarer instances when my routes lead to loading JSON into
memory instead of swapping portions of the page,
I'm keeping track of the objects independent of a library;
thats been OK so far, cos it doesn't happen often, and when it does,
it's just about loading an array of objects of one type.
I suggest you need to make a serious decision about whether your 'app'
revolves around pages or not.
If so, you're right : backbone's overkill, and I think Sammy is a good
fit.
If, however, you expect to be managing complex state, and a variety of
data types, then this could get messy without something to provide
discipline around managing collections of objects, and it might be
better to ditch sammy for backbone.
I'm definitely enjoying sammy.
but backbone looks cool, and I'm looking forward to recognising a good
opportunity to use it sometime soon.
Since you've gone so far with it already, I'd heartily recommend
giving it another bash and seeing if it clicks.
I guess you'll be debugging each with the same tools,
and having the library that best matches your use case will help make
that experience as smooth as it can be ;{)}
-= jTNT
PS: underscore's definitely worth adding to your toolkit, whatever
you're doing.
really, sammy and backbone are very different beasts.
Sammy seems well suited to a website where you're swapping in
templated elements on the page,
whereas backbone is for holding complex state in a webapp managing a
variety of data.
I'm using sammy, not backbone, because I decided that what I'm doing
fits the former.
In those rarer instances when my routes lead to loading JSON into
memory instead of swapping portions of the page,
I'm keeping track of the objects independent of a library;
thats been OK so far, cos it doesn't happen often, and when it does,
it's just about loading an array of objects of one type.
I suggest you need to make a serious decision about whether your 'app'
revolves around pages or not.
If so, you're right : backbone's overkill, and I think Sammy is a good
fit.
If, however, you expect to be managing complex state, and a variety of
data types, then this could get messy without something to provide
discipline around managing collections of objects, and it might be
better to ditch sammy for backbone.
I'm definitely enjoying sammy.
but backbone looks cool, and I'm looking forward to recognising a good
opportunity to use it sometime soon.
Since you've gone so far with it already, I'd heartily recommend
giving it another bash and seeing if it clicks.
I guess you'll be debugging each with the same tools,
and having the library that best matches your use case will help make
that experience as smooth as it can be ;{)}
-= jTNT
PS: underscore's definitely worth adding to your toolkit, whatever
you're doing.
Andreas
May 23, 2011, 4:14:35 AM5/23/11
to Sammy.js
Feel your pain man.
After several years of traditional webdeveloping we are so used to do
page based stuff that its literally in our backbone ;)
We've been doing stateful stuff over a non-statefull protocol etc.
Nowadays you can just build full featured desktop like apps
within the browser and to really take advantage of that you can use
techniques not applicable to traditional "page based" webapps.
It's just a matter of trying to think in new ways to solve problems in
a way they should be solved. I think the first thing you should do
is trying to learn a little bit more about the fundamentals behind
libraries like backbone js, spine js, sproutcore etc so that you know
when you make your app if those frameworks are applicable or not.
After several years of traditional webdeveloping we are so used to do
page based stuff that its literally in our backbone ;)
We've been doing stateful stuff over a non-statefull protocol etc.
Nowadays you can just build full featured desktop like apps
within the browser and to really take advantage of that you can use
techniques not applicable to traditional "page based" webapps.
It's just a matter of trying to think in new ways to solve problems in
a way they should be solved. I think the first thing you should do
is trying to learn a little bit more about the fundamentals behind
libraries like backbone js, spine js, sproutcore etc so that you know
when you make your app if those frameworks are applicable or not.
Harshal Shah
May 23, 2011, 4:54:58 AM5/23/11
to sam...@googlegroups.com
have a look @ spine http://maccman.github.com/spine/
its on similar lines of backbone ..but much smaller .
Harshal ShahOn Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:18 AM, RazzMan <ken.eg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Andreas
Jun 7, 2011, 6:27:11 AM6/7/11
to Sammy.js
Im playing with spine. I think I like it.
There's a lot of fuzz out there these days about "desiging your app
around hash based urls" ( danwebb.net/2011/5/28/it-is-about-the-
hashbangs for example )
I don't know how to react on that.
On May 23, 10:54 am, Harshal Shah <harshal.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> have a look @ spinehttp://maccman.github.com/spine/
There's a lot of fuzz out there these days about "desiging your app
around hash based urls" ( danwebb.net/2011/5/28/it-is-about-the-
hashbangs for example )
I don't know how to react on that.
On May 23, 10:54 am, Harshal Shah <harshal.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> have a look @ spinehttp://maccman.github.com/spine/
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