Re: [sage-combinat-devel] use Sage!

[David Joyner]

Hi WIlliam:
I'm curious, is there any further progress on this plan of a Use Sage!
series at Springer?
- David

On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 4:27 PM, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sage-Developers,
>
> There is a big series of small books about R that Springer publishes:
>
> http://www.springer.com/series/6991?detailsPage=titles
>
> The editorial director of that series at Springer just talked with me
> on the phone for a while, and he says these are among "Springers best
> selling books"; moreover, he believes they have a major impact on
> making R a really viable platform for computational statistics.
>
> He wants to know if we want to create a series like this for Sage.
> The timing would be good, giving how the level of maturity and
> comprehensive functionality of Sage, at least compared to a few years
> ago. For *this* series, Springer appears amenable to authors
> keeping copyright, and for there being a free (but slightly different)
> web-version of a given book. As a concrete example, the thematic
> tutorial on combinatorics at
>
> http://sagemath.org/doc/reference/combinat/sage/combinat/tutorial.html#
>
> could be expanded into a short book (maybe 100 pages), published by
> Springer, and still have the shorter similar version included with
> Sage. In other words, they are more amenable to flexible copyright
> and distribution with *this* series of books than with many of their
> other more traditional offerings.
>
> If you have something that you could see being polished into a book
> for inclusion in a series called "Use Sage!" for Springer, let me
> know. If there is sufficient interest, then this could help
> substantially with our mission statement: "Create a free open source
> viable alternative to Magma, Maple, Mathematica, and Matlab." (In
> fact, Springer believes their book series plays a big role in R's
> extreme popularity.)
>
> I've also talked with both the AMS and with O'Reilly about similar
> projects, but it doesn't seem to work out. Also, both publishers
> (especially O'Reilly) seemed much more "allergic" to material in the
> books being partly duplicated online.
>
> -- William
>
>
> --
> William Stein
> Professor of Mathematics
> University of Washington
> http://wstein.org
>
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[Rob Beezer]

There were discussions about a Sage Book Series at the two Sage Days (notebook and edu) in Seattle back in June, motivated in part by this thread. Discussion centered on interest in creating books about Sage, and the advisability of the Sage community producing them ourselves.  I volunteered to report those discussions and continue the wider discussion here. (My apologies for the extreme tardiness!)

There are several examples of such books already, either about doing mathematics with Sage, or about learning mathematics with Sage as a tool (not complete):


Sage Beginner's Guide, Craig Finch, Packt Publishing, 364 pp., $44.95 [1]

Sage Tutorial release 4.3.5, William Stein, Sage Development Team, 104 pp., $9.00 [2]

Calcul mathématique avec Sage, Paul Zimmerman, et al., 468 pp,. $9.44 [3]

Introduction to Cryptography with Open-Source Software, Alasdair McAndrew, 461 pp., $70.29 [4]

Differential Calculus and Sage, David Joyner, William Granville, 374 pp., $18 [5]


The majority expressing an opinion felt having the Sage project publish such books was preferable to working with a commercial publisher.  Points raised in the discussion.


Copy editing: is hard work.  Commercial publishers have personnel available who do this for a living.  Sage developers do very similar work in reviewing code and documentation, so we have some of these skills available.  There was a feeling some commercial publishers are relying more on "camera-ready" copy and not doing as thorough a job of this in every case.  The need for an Editorial Board was discussed above.

Marketing: is hard.  A commercial publisher would have incentive to do some of this, in return for a copyright.  Customer Reviews and "star ratings" on a site like Amazon.com could be as useful, or more so.  The Sage website provides a natural place to promote a book series.

Production: has become much easier with print-on-demand services.  In the above examples, Amazon's CreateSpace [6] is a popular choice.  I have had good luck with Lightning Source [7], which provides wider distribution (Barnes & Noble, etc), but requires more paperwork to setup and manage.  Lulu.com [8] is another option, but not as professional as Lightning Source (in my experience).

Timeliness, Accuracy:  Print-on-demand allows for a new edition at any time.  Sage code does bit rot (as we all know all too well) and improvements materialize, so if an author is committed to *maintaining* a book, it could stay very current.  Print-on-demand might also allow for a much faster turnaround from completion to availability (keeping code fresher).

Promotion: A book series would be a good initiative to increase adoption and use of Sage.  Beginners do appreciate the format of a self-contained introduction, and the availability could be appealing for use in courses.

Availability:  Using an open license would allow distribution in various formats (downloadable PDFs, ReST in Sage distribution).  I suspect most Sage developers believe this would encourage uptake of the books, not discourage it.

Pricing:  I believe the prices above that are below $20 are for paperback editions with little or no revenue to the authors.  The Sage Days discussion proposed generating some revenue for both Sage development and to support authoring and editing.

Middle Ground:  There was some sentiment for negotiating with a commercial publisher to allow exclusive rights for a period (18 months?) and then moving to an open license.

Scope:  Books strictly as "how-tos" on using Sage, or more broadly interpreted as textbooks or monographs where Sage is an integral part of the exposition?

Evaluation:  I mean of you - as a professional.  Tenure, promotion, that sort of stuff.  This is an important discussion, but I think it is peculiar to each individual and institution.  Sage Developers contribute varied amounts of time and attention to Sage, each for their own reasons.  I see it as the same here.


I have cross-posted to sage-edu and sage-marketing.  Please comment on the thread in sage-devel if you want to add to the discussion.  If you think this is a good project for the Sage community, then consider demonstrate the viability by volunteering as an author, editor, producer and/or manager of such an effort (in addition to those expressing interest already above).

Rob


[1]  http://www.amazon.com/Sage-Beginners-Guide-Craig-Finch/dp/1849514461/

[2]  http://www.amazon.com/Tutorial-Release-4-3-5-William-Stein/dp/1452802033/

[3]  http://www.amazon.com/Calcul-mathématique-avec-French-Edition/dp/1481191047/

[4]  http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Cryptography-Open-Source-Mathematics-Applications/dp/143982570X/

[5]  http://www.amazon.com/Differential-Calculus-Sage-David-Joyner/dp/1448662192/

[6]  https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/

[7]  http://www1.lightningsource.com/benefits_small.aspx

[8]  http://www.lulu.com/publish/books/