math & science majors need to know how to program -> unless they go into education

[michel paul]

This was a point made by KCrisman on the recent thread regarding 'simplified function calls'. It immediately struck me as perfect for  K-12 education to hear, so I forwarded it to our math and science departments.

It seems to have resonated! At least a little bit.    : )

---------- Forwarded message ----------

From: michel paul
Date: Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:26 PM
Subject: math & science majors need to know how to program -> unless they go into education
To: hsmath , hsscience 

The following line was in a post on the sage-edu list:

'''
Math and science majors are almost guaranteed to need to know how to program if they do not go into education, and even then it's a boon to them if they do, so knowing the OO paradigm (even if they don't call it that) can be useful.
'''

I found this very interesting -> guaranteed to need to know how to program if they do not go into education ...

So, for anyone majoring in math or science, if you don't want to have to learn to program - just go into education!  : )

This explains a lot about why there is such a disconnect between math as actually practiced in the world and math as taught in K-12.

I think we're way due for a change - getting more educators to understand contemporary programming would do a lot of good.

-- Michel

==================================
"What I cannot create, I do not understand."

- Richard Feynman

==================================
"Computer science is the new mathematics."

- Dr. Christos Papadimitriou
==================================

[Jason Grout]

On 3/10/12 10:23 AM, michel paul wrote:
> This was a point made by KCrisman on the recent thread regarding
> 'simplified function calls'. It immediately struck me as perfect for
> K-12 education to hear, so I forwarded it to our math and science
> departments.
>
> It seems to have resonated! At least a little bit. : )

We require our math majors to take the beginning CS programming course
(which is currently in Java, but may switch to python sometime in the
future...)

Jason

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Jason Grout <jason...@creativetrax.com> wrote:

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Isn't that the wrong message? Math and Science majors should take compsci ESPECIALLY if going into education!!!
Regards,
A. Jorge Garcia
Applied Math and CompSci
http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009
Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless

[Manjusha Joshi]

Hello,

True!

Maths students need to learn some scripting/programing language like Python.
Basically there is huge gap in understanding maths and implementing maths.
That can be reduce by implementing concepts, algorithms in Python like
language.
Which in fact SAGE!

We should start introducing SAGE more and more in Maths community.

Use of software in the syllabus will be more effective for under
graduates, even K12 students to improve maths understanding and
hence students will develop more interest towards Mathematics.
Regards,

-------------
Manjusha S. Joshi
http://fossme.bprim.org
Pune, India
blog:http://manjushajoshi.wordpress.com/

[A. Jorge Garcia]

I think you will be interested in what I'm doing with Python and SAGE
in my Calculus Research Lab. Have a look,

http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com/2012/03/quarter-iii-week-5-screencasts.html

HTH,

[kcrisman]

On Mar 10, 12:50 pm, "A. Jorge Garcia" <calcp...@aol.com> wrote:

> Jason Grout <jason-s...@creativetrax.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/10/12 10:23 AM, michel paul wrote:
>
> > This was a point made by KCrisman on the recent thread regarding
> > 'simplified function calls'. It immediately struck me as perfect for
> > K-12 education to hear, so I forwarded it to our math and science
> > departments.
>
> > It seems to have resonated! At least a little bit. : )
>
> We require our math majors to take the beginning CS programming course
> (which is currently in Java, but may switch to python sometime in the
> future...)

Ours switched to Python about three years ago :)

> Isn't that the wrong message? Math and Science majors should take compsci ESPECIALLY if going into education!!!

Sure, but this is not really required or demanded by most secondary
education positions currently, so I was talking about the employment
situation. I'd like my majors to have had demanding literature
courses, too (preferably Shakespeare or Dostoevsky), but employers
aren't demanding that either, unfortunately. Facility with things
like smartboards is, but not this. To be fair, if you have actually
observed any typical secondary classrooms lately (I have), this would
be asking a lot of teachers to add. However, having the ability to
"smoothly" integrate things like Geogebra in a HS Geometry class,
instead of flailing about, would be very beneficial, true.

I'd be interested in hearing from others who actively place majors in
non-grad school, non-secondary positions.

- kcrisman

[A. Jorge Garcia]

My students are having fun writing python functions in SAGE to estimate
definite integrals:

http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com/2012/03/quarter-iii-week-6-screencasts.html

[MišoLietavec]

If you have something to say, say it here. I do not like your self-promotion.

Michal

Dňa 18. marca 2012 4:15, A. Jorge Garcia <calc...@aol.com> napísal/a:

[David Joyner]

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:19 AM, MišoLietavec <frc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you have something to say, say it here. I do not like your self-promotion.

I agree.
When I click on the link, I see a big banner asking for donations
then have to scroll to the bottom of a large page to find anything
related to Sage and Riemann sums.

>
> Michal
>
> Dňa 18. marca 2012 4:15, A. Jorge Garcia <calc...@aol.com> napísal/a:
>> My students are having fun writing python functions in SAGE to estimate
>> definite integrals:
>>
>> http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com/2012/03/quarter-iii-week-6-screencasts.html
>>
>> HTH,
>> A. Jorge Garcia
>> Applied Math and CompSci
>> http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
>> http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009
>

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OOPS, sorry, I didn't think of that. I thought you'd like my SAGE
related links. Won't happen again.

Thanx,

A. Jorge Garcia
Applied Math and CompSci
http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009

[A. Jorge Garcia]

Would including a direct link to a published worksheet like this:

https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/home/pub/297

be appropriate then? I publish some of the worksheets my students and I
complete in class so I can link to them on my blog or on edmodo for
students who are absent or for later reference:

https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/pub/?typ=pub&search=calcpage

TIA,

[David Joyner]

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 5:17 PM, A. Jorge Garcia <calc...@aol.com> wrote:
> Would including a direct link to a published worksheet like this:
>
> https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/home/pub/297
>
> be appropriate then? I publish some of the worksheets my students and I

Great. Thanks.

> complete in class so I can link to them on my blog or on edmodo for students
> who are absent or for later reference:
>
> https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/pub/?typ=pub&search=calcpage
>
> TIA,
>
> A. Jorge Garcia
> Applied Math and CompSci
> http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
> http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009
>
>
>

[William Stein]

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 2:17 PM, A. Jorge Garcia <calc...@aol.com> wrote:
> Would including a direct link to a published worksheet like this:
>
> https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/home/pub/297
>
> be appropriate then?

I personally find the above link (and some explanation) to be very
appropriate for this list.

Many thanks for your consideration and thought,

William

> I publish some of the worksheets my students and I
> complete in class so I can link to them on my blog or on edmodo for students
> who are absent or for later reference:
>
> https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/pub/?typ=pub&search=calcpage
>
> TIA,
>
> A. Jorge Garcia
> Applied Math and CompSci
> http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
> http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009
>
>
>

> --
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>

--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

[A. Jorge Garcia]

OK, here's a little explanation then:

I'm running a new course this year for the first time that uses SAGE in
a computer lab setting to investigate topics in Calculus. I wanted to
call it "Scientific Computing Lab" but the powers-that-be morphed into
"Calculus Research Lab." This Lab meets every other day (like a science
lab) in addition to the students' AP Calculus class at my High School.

We just started using this text,
http://wdjoyner.com/teach/calc2-sage/hoffman-stein-calculus.pdf
On p19 we start reading about using python functions to do Riemann
Sums. So, I thought I'd show the students a little about lists and sums
in python using SAGE. This is how far we got,
https://sage.math.clemson.edu:34567/home/pub/297

I wonder if anyone else is using SAGE with their Calculus I and II
students and what you do.

TIA,
A. Jorge Garcia
Applied Math and CompSci
http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009

-----Original Message-----
From: William Stein <wst...@gmail.com>
To: sage-edu <sage...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Mar 18, 2012 6:20 pm
Subject: Re: [sage-edu] Riemann Sums