Can we prevent sage-devel from soon look the same as sage-support?
Simon King
Since today, sage-support has apparently changed to a new google
groups style. I am very unhappy with it. The editor for writing a post
does not work satisfactory. Some posts can not be read. And the
general look is not nice IMHO.
So, can the change from the old to the new google groups be prevented?
If not, I suggest changing the platform for our discussion groups.
Cheers,
Simon
Dima Pasechnik
You can read sage-devel on gmane. You can even, as I, being very old-school
Usenet addict with flashbacks going back 20 years ago, do, install something
like slrn, and then just do
slrn -h news.gmane.org
at your shell prompt.
And don't use "reply", use "followup".
This way you don't generate html crap in addition to text.
Best,
Dima
Simon King
How? I mean, at what URL? I never heard of gmane.
> And don't use "reply", use "followup".
By the way, I find it irritating that the post that started this
thread is not visible.
Cheers,
Simon
Simon King
> On 19 Mrz., 10:57, Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > You can read sage-devel on gmane.
>
> How? I mean, at what URL? I never heard of gmane.
Got it! This reply (or follow-up) is written in gmane.
> By the way, I find it irritating that the post that started this
> thread is not visible.
It is invisible in google, but visible in gmane...
Cheers,
Simon
Dima Pasechnik
>> On 19 Mrz., 10:57, Dima Pasechnik <dimp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > You can read sage-devel on gmane.
>>
>> How? I mean, at what URL? I never heard of gmane.
>
> Got it! This reply (or follow-up) is written in gmane.
>
I meant to say they also have an nntp interface, for old-school folk
like me :)
>> By the way, I find it irritating that the post that started this
>> thread is not visible.
>
> It is invisible in google, but visible in gmane...
yes, google is debugging code on the fly, which really is not good.
For me, all the 4 posts are visible in groups.google.com.
Maybe you got to use Chrome for it to work...
Best,
Dima
Simon King
Dima Pasechnik <dimpase <at> gmail.com> writes:
> > It is invisible in google, but visible in gmane...
> yes, google is debugging code on the fly, which really is not good.
> For me, all the 4 posts are visible in groups.google.com.
> Maybe you got to use Chrome for it to work...
Even as I write these lines, I can still only see two (not five) messages in
this thread (with google on Iceweasel).
My original suspicion was that google did not like my critical comments about
the new groups...
Cheers,
Simon
Keshav Kini
> Got it! This reply (or follow-up) is written in gmane.
Here is a list of sage mailing lists with information about their status
on Gmane: http://wiki.sagemath.org/Gmane
This followup is also written via Gmane, and in Gnus (an Emacs mode) :)
No web browser required!
-Keshav
----
Join us in #sagemath on irc.freenode.net !
Simon King
On 19 Mrz., 20:12, Keshav Kini <keshav.k...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This followup is also written via Gmane, and in Gnus (an Emacs mode) :)
> No web browser required!
Wouldn't the possibility to read and write the Sage-related groups be
an ideal addition to the Sage notebook? The html editor in the Sage
notebook certainly works better than what I have experienced with the
new google groups yesterday.
Cheers,
Simon
Harald Schilly
On Tuesday, March 20, 2012 7:05:39 AM UTC+1, Simon King wrote:
Wouldn't the possibility to read and write the Sage-related groups be
an ideal addition to the Sage notebook?
Keshav Kini
> If there even is an Emacs mode to work with Gmane, then I wonder:
> Wouldn't the possibility to read and write the Sage-related groups be
> an ideal addition to the Sage notebook? The html editor in the Sage
> notebook certainly works better than what I have experienced with the
> new google groups yesterday.
Gnus is not an Emacs mode to work with Gmane - it's a newsreader, which
uses the NNTP protocol to communicate with newsgroups_. Gmane is a
service which archives mailing lists and then presents an NNTP interface
to them which imitates a newsgroup. Thus you can read "articles" and
send "followup articles" back to the newsgroup, which is the newsgroups
analogue of what in mailing lists is called reading "emails" and sending
"replies", and Gmane translates between the former and the latter
transparently.
Actually both email and newsgroup articles use the same file format -
plaintext, starts with several lines of the form "Header-Name: header
value", ends with (mostly) freeform lines called the "body", into which
you can encode non-plaintext data using Multipurpose Internet Mail
Extensions (MIME). So the analogy between newsgroups and mailing lists
is not very forced.
Mailing lists are basically just newsgroups in which every article is
forcibly sent to all "subscribers", rather than having a centralized
NNTP server to which people can connect and read articles of their
choosing. Gmane corrects this deficiency :) Then again, some would say
so does Google Groups, in a different, more "modern" way (with an AJAXy
centralized web interface).
Anyway, reimplementing such functionality in the Sage notebook would be
highly nontrivial, at least the reading part. If you just want an email
*sender*, then you already have that - type "email?" in a Sage prompt
(or the notebook). OK, it's not super polished, and doesn't integrate
with the HTML editor in the notebook (TinyMCE), but I think HTML emails
are generally pretty unnecessary, and in fact undesirable, for this and
other Sage lists.
.. _newsgroups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_newsgroup
William Stein
Sage: spammer ready and approved!
-- William
Volker Braun
leif
> I prefer the
> new layout.
>
> The editor works fine for me.
-leif
Simon King
> No web browser required!
via Emacs in Gnus mode?
I tried to find the answer by search with google, and of course I also
tried some "promising" commands that I found in the GNUS manual. For
example, by hitting the key "B", I understood that I can visit a
foreign group. Indeed, I am asked to provide a backend (nntp) and then
an address - but the address nntp://gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.support/
is not accepted, nor is any abbreviation of it, like
gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.support or gmane.comp or nntp://gmane.comp
Cheers,
Simon
Simon King
subscribe sage-support.
Cheers,
Simon
Julien Puydt
http://gmane.org/faq.php says :
How do I link to a group on Gmane?
There are two addresses you can give.
nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.group.name: This is the newsgroup.
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.group.name: This is the web interface.
Use either or both.
I hope that helps,
Snark on #sagemath
Keshav Kini
> Got it! Gnus-Emacs found news.gmane.org, and from there I could
> subscribe sage-support.
Yup, news.gmane.org is the NNTP server, and once you connect to it you
can subscribe to or otherwise view different groups. You should create a
file called ~/.gnus.el and use it to set news.gmane.org as the default
NNTP server. Here is my ~/.gnus.el file:
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "gmane"
(nntp-pre-command "tsocks")
(nntp-open-connection-function nntp-open-netcat-stream)
(nntp-address "news.gmane.org")))
(setq gnus-save-killed-list nil)
(setq gnus-read-newsrc-file nil)
(setq gnus-save-newsrc-file nil)
; default subscription patterns
(setq gnus-options-subscribe "gmane\.comp\.mathematics\.sage\..*")
; sending mail
(setq message-send-mail-function 'smtpmail-send-it)
Some of that stuff you won't need, like the tsocks thing - that was
because my university apparently blocks NNTP - I guess because it can be
used for "nefarious" purposes to download movies, music, etc. which
pirates post on certain "binary newsgroups" where all the emails are
just file attachments. So I use tsocks to proxy through sage.math all
connections to any remote servers on port 119. (I hope this is not
considered abuse of sage.math login privileges...) A simple version of
those lines would be...
(setq gnus-select-method '(nntp "news.gmane.org"))
I haven't really figured out how the default subscription options
work... I just tried to set that variable but I didn't really see any
effect.
The "sending mail" line in case I wanted to use SMTP to send
mails. If you send followups or post articles directly through NNTP you
get an anti-spam challenge email from Gmane which you must reply to
before your email is allowed to be sent through to the list, which
sounded annoying, so at first I decided I would send everything through
SMTP. But apparently Gmane only anti-spam checks you once each time you
post to a new group, which I can deal with, so I usually just post via
NNTP.
I notice that when I manually add "CC: foo bar <f...@bar.com>" lines to
my drafts, when I send them, Gnus tries to send them through both NNTP
and then SMTP. I guess it thinks that the NNTP server won't forward the
mail to the CC list. But apparently Gmane actually does this, so it's
unnecessary to send it again through SMTP. I haven't figured out how to
turn this behavior off yet...
Useful commands: in the group list, l shows all subscribed groups with
unread messages in them (the default view when you start gnus with "M-x
gnus"). L shows all subscribed and unsubscribed groups (i.e. groups
which you subscribed but then later unsubscribed - to get rid of them
from this view you must not just unsubscribe but also kill them by
highlighting them and hitting C-k).
So usually I subscribe to groups I want to read all messages in (like
gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel), and subscribe and then unsubscribe
to other mailing lists I'm interested in (like
gmane.comp.python.ipython.devel, say). You can also do A-A to show all
groups on gmane for the purpose of finding ones to subscribe to.
In the list of messages within a specific group, /-N for "refreshing"
(looking for new messages), /-o for loading a specified number of old
messages beyond what are already displayed. Selecting an article and
typing A-T will attempt to load all other messages in the thread, though
this sometimes fails to find all of the thread because it works by
checking the references to other messages in the header, not by fuzzy
matching of the Subject line as Google Groups does it, and some people's
email clients don't use the proper references in the headers.
e to edit an article (say if you're looking at your drafts), f to
followup (i.e. reply), F to followup while quoting the message, a to
send a new message from scratch (i.e. start a new thread).
When editing a draft, C-c C-k to abandon it, C-c C-c to send it, and...
um, C-x C-s to save the draft (or :w for me since I use evil-mode :) ).
Most or all of this is visible from the menus if you have menus turned
on in Emacs.
Hope this helps! And maybe you can teach me something else which you
have figured out :)
Simon King
On 2012-03-21, Keshav Kini <kesha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yup, news.gmane.org is the NNTP server, and once you connect to it you
> can subscribe to or otherwise view different groups. You should create a
> file called ~/.gnus.el and use it to set news.gmane.org as the default
> NNTP server. Here is my ~/.gnus.el file:
Thank you for your hints!
Meanwhile I try the old-fashioned way: slrn.
I can read the news groups via slrn, and if you can read that message
then I succeeded with learning how to configure my laptop to post with
slrn...
Keeping my fingers crossed that it works :)
Simon