mathematica advertising

[dmharvey]

When I google for "sage math", I get mathematica ads on the right. Is
that something they would have done on purpose?

david

[mabshoff]

On Apr 6, 6:30 pm, dmharvey <dmhar...@cims.nyu.edu> wrote:

Hi David,

> When I google for "sage math", I get mathematica ads on the right. Is
> that something they would have done on purpose?

It might be, it might be not. I am sure MMA is bidding for the keyword
"math" - it would be interesting to see if they are bidding only on
the keyword Sage.

> david

Cheers,

Michael

[William Stein]

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:30 PM, dmharvey <dmha...@cims.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> When I google for "sage math", I get mathematica ads on the right. Is
> that something they would have done on purpose?
>

I think it is *highly* likely they did, since it is the *only* ad, it
is for the cheapest version of Mathematica, and that ad doesn't come
up for searches for "math".

For posterity I've attached a screenshot.

People might want to try searching, clicking on the add and seeing
what happens -- maybe you'll cost Mathematica 9c and make Google some
money that can be used to support further work on Sage :-)

William

[mabshoff]

Having played around with this and discussed this with William in IRC:
It only comes up when you search for "Sage" and "math" and it is only
one ad being displayed, so it seems to be targeted at Sage :)

I checked and there are no ads for either "Axiom math" or "Maxima
math" and "maple math" returns an ad for Maple software at Amazon.

Cheers,

Michael

[Justin C. Walker]

FWIW, I tried the search on Yahoo. There was only one add there as
well: for the Sage tutorial, by William Stein. :-}

I also earned Google $0.09 From Wolfram, or whatever those expensive
clicks are going for these days.

Justin

--
Justin C. Walker
Curmudgeon at Large
Director
Institute for the Enhancement of the Director's Income
--
Build a man a fire and he'll be warm
for a night.
Set a man on fire and he'll be warm
for the rest of his life.

[Dorian Raymer]

Search for 'open source mathematica'.
Sage is the first hit and there is an accompanying add for Mathematica Home Edition. It's a perfectly reasonable strategy on MMAs part and is really a compliment to Sage. Wolfram is paying for a runner-up spot to keep up.

Way to go :)

Dorian

[Harald Schilly]

Hi, I've some experience with google advertising, and my answer is to
that questions no!

1. the reason why it comes up for "sage math" but not for "math" alone
is, simply because a search for "math" is too unspecific and all
others in the pool bidding for this word are selected. indeed, with a
very low probability you will see the same ad here, too.

2. I tried to advertise for sage using the keyword "sage" - that's not
possible, because "sage" is trademark of that other finance software
"sage".

3. I can only think of the possibility, that they use the keyword
"sagemath". But I think it's much more likely that they throw a lot of
money on the math keyword and that's it.

4. Also, don't forget, it's not only about keywords and money. There
is also an equally important measurement by google for the quality of
an ad. That is something based on the text inside the ad and a
language analysis of it and that is compared to the language analysis
of all the texts in the websites. This includes, i think, clustering
of text into topics based on the used words and more.

The optimization of google works that way, that it tries to punish bad
quality ads by charging them with more money (in the bidding) and
better quality ads with good and specific texts are cheaper. If
someone is interested, I can tell you more about that... The goal is
to have an economic model where those players who are "good" [for
google and the users] live longer.

Harald

[john_perry_usm]

On Apr 6, 11:10 pm, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it is *highly* likely they did, since it is the *only* ad, it
> is for the cheapest version of Mathematica, and that ad doesn't come
> up for searches for "math".

I'm directed to the home version at $295, and the regular student
version is $139.95, although one can buy a semester license for a mere
$44.95. How much does a regular student license of sage cost
again? ;-)

A search for "computer algebra system" (without quotes) or "math
software" reliably turns up an ad to Maplesoft, but not Mathematica.
Wolfram needs a better marketing strategy IMHO.

regards
john perry

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Apr 7, 10:45 am, Harald Schilly <harald.schi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I've some experience with google advertising, and my answer is to
> that questions no!
>
> 1. the reason why it comes up for "sage math" but not for "math" alone
> is, simply because a search for "math" is too unspecific and all
> others in the pool bidding for this word are selected. indeed, with a
> very low probability you will see the same ad here, too.
>
> 2. I tried to advertise for sage using the keyword "sage" - that's not
> possible, because "sage" is trademark of that other finance software
> "sage".
>

Harald,

I don't claim to know anything about Google advertising, but it seems
to me highly unlikely WRI have not targeted Sage.

I can see your point Google declined you because Sage is a registered
trademark, but it is quite possible another person at Google
interpreted that differently. In any case, it was a spice well before
any company used it as a name of a product. Also, how comes Maple ads
come up when one searches for Mathematica? Maplesoft must have links
using the trademark.

There is also very little chance of any confusion over Sage the maths
software and Sage the accounting software.

Since a Google search on Mathematica brings up sponsored ads for
Maple, I assume Sage could place an ad using Mathematica as a keyword.
That would be interesting!

[simon...@uni-jena.de]

Hi All!

On 7 Apr., 05:45, Harald Schilly <harald.schi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1. the reason why it comes up for "sage math" but not for "math" alone
> is, simply because a search for "math" is too unspecific and all
> others in the pool bidding for this word are selected. indeed, with a
> very low probability you will see the same ad here, too.

How clever is Google? Perhaps they argue:
- "On the Sage pages, we frequently find the phrase 'viable open
source alternative to Mathematica' (or something in that spirit)"
- Hence, Mathematica is relevant to Sage.
- Hence, if people search for Sage, it makes sense to show them a
Mathematica ad.

In other words, could it be that the ad shows up due to the negative
self-description of Sage?

This would also explain why the ad comes up for "sage math", but not
for "math".

Cheers,
Simon

[kcrisman]

> How clever is Google? Perhaps they argue:
>  - "On the Sage pages, we frequently find the phrase 'viable open
> source alternative to Mathematica' (or something in that spirit)"
>  - Hence, Mathematica is relevant to Sage.
>  - Hence, if people search for Sage, it makes sense to show them a
> Mathematica ad.
>
> In other words, could it be that the ad shows up due to the negative
> self-description of Sage?

I like this idea. But wouldn't that mean that Maplesoft ads should
show up too, or even ones for MathWorks (I assume Magma does not need
Google ads for its clientele)? Just curious.

- kcrisman

[Jason Bandlow]

FWIW, searching for "math sage software" brings up a Maplesoft ad, but
not the Mathematica (or MathWorks) ad.

[Stan Schymanski]

Funny, I must be receiving a lot fewer adds than everybody else. If I
type "sagemath" into Google, I get no adds whatsoever, if I type "sage
math" I get one add saying:

"Sage Math
Looking for Sage Math? Find almost everything on eBay!"

As expected, when I click on the link, Ebay returns 0 items.

Could it be that the adds returned depend a little bit on the user's
individual search history? Anyway, I'm not fussed one way or the other
and mostly ignore the 'Sponsored Links' bar in Google, anyway. I think
it is much more important to make sure sagemath.org is among the top
hits when someone actually searches for a CAS. When I search for
"computer algebra system", I find links to wikipedia, Yacas, Fermat,
Giac, Maxima, Axiom, Reduce and a page at wpi.edu on the first page, but
not SAGE. I guess that there is some room for improvement.

Cheers,
Stan

[mabshoff]

On Apr 7, 11:43 pm, Stan Schymanski <schym...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Stan,

> Funny, I must be receiving a lot fewer adds than everybody else. If I
> type "sagemath" into Google, I get no adds whatsoever, if I type "sage
> math" I get one add saying:
>
> "Sage Math
> Looking for Sage Math? Find almost everything on eBay!"
>
> As expected, when I click on the link, Ebay returns 0 items.

I am sure it is geographic, i.e. only Sage users in the US (and maybe
Canada?) see the ad.

> Could it be that the adds returned depend a little bit on the user's
> individual search history? Anyway, I'm not fussed one way or the other
> and mostly ignore the 'Sponsored Links' bar in Google, anyway. I think
> it is much more important to make sure sagemath.org is among the top
> hits when someone actually searches for a CAS. When I search for
> "computer algebra system", I find links to wikipedia, Yacas, Fermat,
> Giac, Maxima, Axiom, Reduce and a page at wpi.edu on the first page, but
> not SAGE. I guess that there is some room for improvement.

Well, Sage isn't really sold as a CAS in the classic sense, so that
might be part of it. I guess over time this might change :)

> Cheers,
> Stan

Cheers,

Michael

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Apr 8, 7:43 am, Stan Schymanski <schym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Funny, I must be receiving a lot fewer adds than everybody else. If I
> type "sagemath" into Google, I get no adds whatsoever, if I type "sage
> math" I get one add saying:

There is almost certainly a random element to the ads you see.

I can search for sage and math, and get different adverts 5 seconds
later. In fact, even Wolfram's advert is not the same. Sometimes I get
an ad for

"Mathematica Home Edition"

occasionally I get an ad for

"Mathematica Home Copy"

I think the 'Edition' comes up about 10x as often as the "Copy", but
"Mathematica Home Copy" does come up some times.

But there are other ads too, which sometimes appear and sometimes do
not.

"Sage Software & Services"

and interesting one I got just now is

"algebra Help, Fast"
with a link to http://www.studentoffortune.com/?gclid=CPTj__mY4ZkCFQFvGgodUBMrWg

I assume, the more money you are willing to pay, the higher the
probability of your ad appearing.

[Vinzent Steinberg]

On Apr 8, 9:41 am, mabshoff <mabsh...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> I am sure it is geographic, i.e. only Sage users in the US (and maybe
> Canada?) see the ad.

It also depends on the websites you visit, see

http://www.google.com/intl/en/privacy_ads.html


Vinzent