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More options Aug 29 2012, 9:52 am
From: Franco Saliola <sali...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:51:46 -0400
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 9:51 am
Subject: bug in symmetric function scalar product?
Someone sent me the following sage session, which I cannot reproduce,
but I'm asking whether this is a known issue and whether someone can
reproduce it:

sage: p=SFAPower(QQ)
sage: s=SFASchur(QQ)

sage: f = p([1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1])/990 + p([2,2,2,2,2,1])/10 +
p([5,5,1])/10 - p([10,1])/10 + p([9,1,1])/3 + p([3,3,3,1,1])/9 +
5*p([11])/11

sage: [f.scalar(s(q)) for q in Partitions(11)]
[1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -1, 2, 1,
-1, 2, 4, 3, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1, 2, 1, 127020063634, 1, 1, 0, 0,
158403414193, 0, 1, -1, 1, 0, 19558976098, 0, 1, 3804836920632,
298744000054, 6021978496, -1, 0, 1]

Expected:
[1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -1, 2, 1,
-1, 2, 4, 3, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, -1,
1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 1]

computer: MacBook Pro with an Intel Core i7 processor (64-bit
processor according to the Intel web page)

version: Sage-5.0.1-OSX-64bit-10.6

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More options Aug 29 2012, 10:36 am
From: Anne Schilling <a...@math.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:36:34 -0700
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 10:36 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?
Hi Franco,

Will this also happen on this person's computer with sage-5.3.rc0?
I think I am running this on the same computer, but I do not have sage-5.0.1
installed any longer.

sage: Sym = SymmetricFunctions(QQ)
sage: p = Sym.powersum()
sage: s = Sym.schur()
sage: f = p([1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1])/990 + p([2,2,2,2,2,1])/10 +p([5,5,1])/10 - p([10,1])/10 + p([9,1,1])/3 + p([3,3,3,1,1])/9 +5*p([11])/11
sage: [f.scalar(s(q)) for q in Partitions(11)]
[1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, -1, 2, 1, -1, 2, 4, 3, 0, 1, 0, 2, 1, 0, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 0, 0, 3, 0, 1, -1, 1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, -1, 0, 1]

Anne

On 8/29/12 6:51 AM, Franco Saliola wrote:

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More options Aug 29 2012, 10:46 am
From: Franco Saliola <sali...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 10:45:37 -0400
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 10:45 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Anne Schilling <a...@math.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
> Hi Franco,

> Will this also happen on this person's computer with sage-5.3.rc0?
> I think I am running this on the same computer, but I do not have sage-5.0.1
> installed any longer.

Don't know. He hasn't upgraded yet. I've tried this on several
versions going back to sage-4.6.2 and I don't have this error.

If we can't reproduce this problem for the latest version of sage,
then it's not a bug. ;-)

Franco

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More options Aug 29 2012, 11:00 am
From: Florent Hivert <Florent.Hiv...@lri.fr>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:00:07 +0200
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 11:00 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?
Hi Franco,

I'm wondering: did this happen during a session, or is the bug triggered
deterministically after the preceding sequences of command ?

Cheers,

Florent

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More options Aug 29 2012, 11:20 am
From: Franco Saliola <sali...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 11:20:14 -0400
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 11:20 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?
Hello Florent!

It sure looks likely, based on the following session (with 5.3.beta2).

To begin with, let's do a change of basis in a small degree:

sage: p = SymmetricFunctions(QQ).powersum()
sage: s = SymmetricFunctions(QQ).schur()
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 2*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

Now let's do one in a larger degree:

sage: time g = s(p([1]*47))
Time: CPU 19.16 s, Wall: 20.91 s

Now let's do that first one again:

sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4571483302*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

That's not the correct answer ! And the next time you ask Sage, it
gives different, still incorrect, answers:

sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4614252243*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4634718110*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4631047636*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

Franco

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More options Aug 29 2012, 11:40 am
From: Anne Schilling <a...@math.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 08:40:50 -0700
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 11:40 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?
On 8/29/12 8:20 AM, Franco Saliola wrote:

I can confirm that this happens for me as well (though with different numbers):

sage: p = SymmetricFunctions(QQ).powersum()
sage: s = SymmetricFunctions(QQ).schur()
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 2*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: time g = s(p([1]*47))
Time: CPU 14.38 s, Wall: 14.87 s
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4570475192*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4614292718*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

Best,

Anne

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More options Aug 29 2012, 3:01 pm
From: Mike Zabrocki <mike.zabro...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 12:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?

Hi,

This one looks really serious.  In some ways seems to be computer
dependent because my answers seem to have twice as
many digits as yours.

sage: Sym = SymmetricFunctions(QQ)
sage: p = Sym.p()
sage: s = Sym.s()
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 2*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: g = s(p([1]*47))
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] - 1152912726858932132*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 3458773291570539007*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] - 1152912726855831925*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

It doesn't help to fix the problem by redefining the ring or
'reseting' sage:

sage: reset()
sage: Sym = SymmetricFunctions(QQ['t'])
sage: s = Sym.s()
sage: p = Sym.p()
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] - 1152912726855247442*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

I have a suspicion that this is coming from symmetrica.
If we can track the error down to it, it may require another large
rewrite of the symmetric function code.

-Mike

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More options Aug 29 2012, 3:16 pm
From: "Nicolas M. Thiery" <Nicolas.Thi...@u-psud.fr>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:16:04 +0200
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:01:13PM -0700, Mike Zabrocki wrote:
>    Hi,
>    This one looks really serious.  In some ways seems to be computer
>    dependent because my answers seem to have twice as
>    many digits as yours.

This really looks like an integer overflow (in the communication with
Symmetrica?), which might differ depending on the hardware.

Cheers,
Nicolas
--
Nicolas M. Thi ry "Isil" <nthi...@users.sf.net>
http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/

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More options Aug 29 2012, 5:01 pm
From: Travis Scrimshaw <tsc...@ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 14:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 5:01 pm
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 12:16:10 PM UTC-7, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:01:13PM -0700, Mike Zabrocki wrote:
> >    Hi,
> >    This one looks really serious.  In some ways seems to be computer
> >    dependent because my answers seem to have twice as
> >    many digits as yours.

> This really looks like an integer overflow (in the communication with
> Symmetrica?), which might differ depending on the hardware.

When (random) big numbers appear like that, it almost always is an integer
overflow. I suspect the communication with Symmetrica goes through the
native integer. Is this correct? If so, then that's where I'd say the
problem lies.

Best,
Travis

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More options Aug 29 2012, 8:30 pm
From: Anne Schilling <a...@math.ucdavis.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 17:30:09 -0700
Local: Wed, Aug 29 2012 8:30 pm
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?
On 8/29/12 12:16 PM, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 12:01:13PM -0700, Mike Zabrocki wrote:
>>    Hi,
>>    This one looks really serious.  In some ways seems to be computer
>>    dependent because my answers seem to have twice as
>>    many digits as yours.

> This really looks like an integer overflow (in the communication with
> Symmetrica?), which might differ depending on the hardware.

I think it is not symmetrica per se, but some wrapper functions around symmetrica
as the following example shows:

sage: f = eval('symmetrica.t_POWSYM_SCHUR')
sage: f({Partition([2,2]):Integer(1)})
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 2*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: time g = f({Partition([1]*47):Integer(1)})
Time: CPU 13.03 s, Wall: 13.04 s
sage: f({Partition([2,2]):Integer(1)})
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 2*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]
sage: Sym = SymmetricFunctions(QQ)
sage: p = Sym.power()
sage: s = Sym.schur()
sage: s(p[2,2])
s[1, 1, 1, 1] - s[2, 1, 1] + 4631790164*s[2, 2] - s[3, 1] + s[4]

Best,

Anne

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More options Aug 30 2012, 9:58 am
From: Franco Saliola <sali...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 09:58:18 -0400
Local: Thurs, Aug 30 2012 9:58 am
Subject: Re: [sage-combinat-devel] bug in symmetric function scalar product?

I've created a ticket for this:

Franco

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