Textmate vs. MacVim

[Tony Barone]

Hi Rails Community,

I am about to commit to a text editor for both Ruby and RoR
development. What are your opinions about investing time into
Textmate vs. MacVim? I've already purchased Textmate and download
MacVim. Looking for pros, cons, etc. Does anyone use both or once
you stick with an editor, you stay with that editor.

Thanks,
Tony

[Marnen Laibow-Koser]

I use neither. I hate vi and its descendants, and I'm not about to pay
lots of money for TextMate. I recommend KomodoEdit.

There's a lot of discussion about editors in the list archives. Try a
quick search.

>
> Thanks,
> Tony

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
mar...@marnen.org
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

[Fidel Viegas]

Hi Tony,

I work with Vim on Linux and I must say that I love it. I don't really
need to try any other editor.

My advice is for you to try both and see which one fits your taste
best. You will find some people suggesting Emacs, others Vim and a few
others Textmate. But, in the end, it is a matter of taste.

Vim (or MacVim) has quite a steap learning curve, but once you get
used to it, it is very rewarding. At least for me.

Try both and then make a choice. You should use the one that makes you
more productive.

All the best,

Fidel.

> Thanks,
> Tony
>
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>

[Philip Hallstrom]

>> Hi Rails Community,
>>
>> I am about to commit to a text editor for both Ruby and RoR
>> development. What are your opinions about investing time into
>> Textmate vs. MacVim? I've already purchased Textmate and download
>> MacVim. Looking for pros, cons, etc. Does anyone use both or once
>> you stick with an editor, you stay with that editor.
>>
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> I work with Vim on Linux and I must say that I love it. I don't really
> need to try any other editor.

Agreed. And the nice thing about vim is all you really need is an ssh connection to use it. Nothing else really matters.

> Try both and then make a choice. You should use the one that makes you
> more productive.

Be sure to try the rails.vim plugin or at least read about it as it has some niceties for doing rails/ruby work in vim.

-philip

[radhames brito]

i must be missing something because everyone seems to love vim but to me is just archaic.

--

[Wincent Colaiuta]

On 8 sep, 22:38, radhames brito <rbri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i must be missing something

Yep.

[Marnen Laibow-Koser]

radhames brito wrote:
> i must be missing something because everyone seems to love vim but to me
> is
> just archaic.

I agree with you. The modal interface should have died in the 1970s.
If I want a console editor, I use Emacs.

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-koser

[Marcelo de Moraes Serpa]

emacs +1, sweet editor, use the starter-kit and you are done. It's
nice to know VI, since it is more readily available (quick edits,
server admin) but as an IDE, emacs is way ahead.

[Fidel Viegas]

On 9/9/10, Marnen Laibow-Koser <li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote:
> radhames brito wrote:
>> i must be missing something because everyone seems to love vim but to me
>> is
>> just archaic.
>
> I agree with you. The modal interface should have died in the 1970s.
> If I want a console editor, I use Emacs.
>

The thing about Vim or Emacs, is that they are not ordinary editors.
They are modal editors. You can't really compare them with ordinary
text editors. Vim isn't only available for the console. You can also
find the GUI version, which is called gVim in the Linux world. Perhaps
this is what MacVim is.

You can always use the mouse and the menus, but you miss all the power
of Vim. It is pretty hard to get use to it in the beginning, but once
you get used to it, you will find that you can do things with it that
you cannot replicate in other editors. The whole productivity
enhancement is in the fact that you do not leave the keyboard, which
is something that sort of delays your productivity a bit. At least
that is for me. In the beginning I kept switching from Vim and gEdit,
because it was pretty hard to navigate through the files. But they I
discovered plugins like Rails.vim, NERDTree, and I stopped using all
the other editors for good. The other nice thing about Vim is that it
comes with any Unix based operating system. So, if you know how to use
it you can start editing configuration files with it in any Unix based
OS. But, it is just like I said: It is a matter of personal taste.

I have heard that Emacs is more powerful than Vim, but for me Vim is
enough. I am happy with it as I am already used to its modes, and
commands.

I think that people should try the different editors and decide for
themselves about which one they feel more comfortable with. In the end
it is all about productivity. If Komodo Edit makes you more productive
that Vim or Emacs, then that's all you need.

All the best,

Fidel.

PS: "Vim is like wine, the older it gets the more tasty it becomes" ;D

[radhames brito]

the problem with vim is that people always say is so powerful but when i try to use it is like im looking at the sky waiting to see a UFO to pass by but nothing happens

[Marnen Laibow-Koser]

Fidel Viegas wrote:
> On 9/9/10, Marnen Laibow-Koser <li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote:
>> radhames brito wrote:
>>> i must be missing something because everyone seems to love vim but to me
>>> is
>>> just archaic.
>>
>> I agree with you. The modal interface should have died in the 1970s.
>> If I want a console editor, I use Emacs.
>>
>
> The thing about Vim or Emacs, is that they are not ordinary editors.
> They are modal editors.

Emacs isn't a modal editor in the sense that Vi is (with separate insert
and edit modes). That's one reason I like it better than Vi.

> You can't really compare them with ordinary
> text editors.

Sure you can. They're heavily programmable, but they're still just text
editors. (Yes, I know you can check your e-mail and play Tetris in
Emacs. That doesn't really change my point.)

[...]

> It is pretty hard to get use to it in the beginning, but once
> you get used to it, you will find that you can do things with it that
> you cannot replicate in other editors.

Example? I agree in principle -- I *am* an Emacs fan -- but I find that
this doesn't make much difference for me in practice.

> The whole productivity
> enhancement is in the fact that you do not leave the keyboard, which
> is something that sort of delays your productivity a bit. At least
> that is for me.

I hear this argument a lot. To some extent (a great extent) I agree
with it. But in fact there are tasks for which the mouse makes you
*more* productive. There are times when I'd rather click around than
use cursor keys.

[...]

> The other nice thing about Vim is that it
> comes with any Unix based operating system. So, if you know how to use
> it you can start editing configuration files with it in any Unix based
> OS.

I know how to use Vi. I still hate it.

[...]

> I have heard that Emacs is more powerful than Vim, but for me Vim is
> enough. I am happy with it as I am already used to its modes, and
> commands.

For me, it's not that Emacs is more powerful; rather, it's easier to
use. Emacs modes are like language modules in other editors, not like
Vi's insert and edit mode. The latter have no place in 21st-century
software IMHO. :)

[...]

> PS: "Vim is like wine, the older it gets the more tasty it becomes" ;D

Why? Because nostalgia is the only thing it has going for it? :D

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser

[Philip Hallstrom]

On Sep 9, 2010, at 4:21 AM, radhames brito wrote:

> the problem with vim is that people always say is so powerful but when i try to use it is like im looking at the sky waiting to see a UFO to pass by but nothing happens

There is a steep learning curve... as this comparison chart clearly shows :-)

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/curves.jpg

-philip

[radhames brito]

OMG LOL

--

[Greg Donald]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 1:56 AM, Fidel Viegas <fidel....@gmail.com> wrote:
> The thing about Vim or Emacs, is that they are not ordinary editors.
> They are modal editors.

Emacs isn't modal.

--
Greg Donald
destiney.com | gregdonald.com

[Jeremy Chase]

I have been a vi/vim user for 15 years, and am a huge fan. However, even after adding snippet support, using rails.vim, and using the directory pane, editing Rails applications is tedious compared to using Textmate. Essentially, the directory pop-out makes file manipulation too easy to not use.

So I generally use Textmate for the bulk of my work, but will use Vim if doing something via the command line or for a quick change.

--
Jeremy Chase
http://twitter.com/jeremychase

[Len Smith]

using any type of folder navigation is way too slow for me. i personally love PeepOpen for navigating, but there are other plugins to do the same thing.  if i want to edit user controller i just do "COMMAND+T" "uco" <Enter> and i'm editing it a second later.

macvim can be prettier and much more powerful than textmate, and you get the advantage of learning vim and being able to leverage its power on any server you're on.

Len Smith

http://iggy.nu

http://twitter.com/ignu

[radhames brito]

i use netbeans but i think there is a huge overhead and i olso have to add the nbproject folder to my .gitignore file

[Michael Pavling]

On 9 September 2010 20:08, radhames brito <rbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i use netbeans but i think there is a huge overhead and i olso have to add
> the nbproject folder to my .gitignore file

That's not exactly a big problem is it? But you can set the Netbeans
folder to be at any location you like - it doesn't have to be in the
folder of the project.

[Marnen Laibow-Koser]

radhames brito wrote:
> i use netbeans but i think there is a huge overhead

Agreed. That's why I use KomodoEdit for Rails work. NetBeans is great
where an IDE is wanted -- which it isn't for Rails development.

> and i olso have to
> add
> the nbproject folder to my .gitignore file

True. So what?

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser

[Greg Donald]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
<li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote:
> NetBeans is great
> where an IDE is wanted -- which it isn't for Rails development.

Learn the API, then you won't need an IDE.

[Marnen Laibow-Koser]

Greg Donald wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
> <li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote:
>> NetBeans is great
>> where an IDE is wanted -- which it isn't for Rails development.
>
> Learn the API, then you won't need an IDE.
>

I don't really agree there: for environments where I *do* benefit from
IDEs (i.e. not Rails), code completion is not the major benefit.
Automating repetitive tasks (such as complex builds), switching between
related files, and Swing/Cocoa GUI construction are among the major
advantages of IDEs for me.

(Then again, that may be because I *do* learn the API in question...)

>
> --
> Greg Donald
> destiney.com | gregdonald.com

Best,

[Greg Donald]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 3:01 PM, Marnen Laibow-Koser
<li...@ruby-forum.com> wrote:
> I don't really agree there: for environments where I *do* benefit from
> IDEs (i.e. not Rails), code completion is not the major benefit.
> Automating repetitive tasks (such as complex builds), switching between
> related files,

C-x <arrow> to move to the next or previous buffer in Emacs. No IDE
required, just a keyboard.

> and Swing/Cocoa GUI construction are among the major
> advantages of IDEs for me.
>
> (Then again, that may be because I *do* learn the API in question...)

It's been my experience programmers *cough* who require an IDE are
usually the most useless people to have on the team.

I'd take an Emacs loving, API-knowing coder over a "I need Netbeans
'cause I need code completion" wanna-be coder any day of the week.

[Michael Pavling]

On 9 September 2010 21:09, Greg Donald <gdo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's been my experience programmers *cough* who require an IDE are
> usually the most useless people to have on the team.
>
> I'd take an Emacs loving, API-knowing coder over a "I need Netbeans
> 'cause I need code completion" wanna-be coder any day of the week.

Because that's what Ruby, Rails and OSS is about: elitism.

No one in this thread mentioned anything about "i needz kode
compleeshun" - you're jumping into prejudicial, and pejorative rants.

[Greg Donald]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Michael Pavling <pav...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because that's what Ruby, Rails and OSS is about: elitism.
>
> No one in this thread mentioned anything about "i needz kode
> compleeshun" - you're jumping into prejudicial, and pejorative rants.

Keeping system resource usage low isn't elitism, it's just being a
good computer scientist.

I'd rather use Emacs or Vim than waste half my machine's memory on
some bloated IDE, all because of laziness not wanting to learn the
API. Either you're a programmer who knows the API you're working
with, or you're punching a time clock.

[Colin Law]

I don't know what you are getting so excited about, no-one here will
disagree with you on needing to know the API inside out. That has
nothing to do with what sort of development environment each
individual is happiest using, which is purely a matter of personal
preference. I like jEdit, Marnen likes Komodo Edit, others like the
Netbeans environment, you like Emacs and Vim. So be it.

Colin

[Rick R]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Len Smith <ignu....@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> macvim can be prettier and much more powerful than textmate, and you get the
> advantage of learning vim and being able to leverage its power on any server
> you're on.

I've been working diligently to 'really try' to use MacVim for my
Rails stuff. For those using vim for Rails, I assume you are using
some flavor of FuzzyFinder... how do you get the results to look nice?
For example, if I want to look at new.haml.html files in multiple
directories but I just want to see the available ones by typing “new”
here is how it looks in fuzzyfinder:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86998/vim-fuzzy.png

and here is how much nicer it looks in TextMate – notice the simple
single name ‘type’ it belongs to after the file name?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/86998/textmate.png

That's the big problem I'm having with MacVim for Rails.. it just ends
up not polished enough. For example I'm using the following plugins:
rails plugin, NerdTree, FuzzyFinderTextMate, BufferWipe, and bufmru,
and things are just awkward sometimes. For example if I'm in the
NerdTree pane and I then opt to use FuzzyFinder to find a file, the
file will end up opening in the nerdtree window - not good. You have
to remember to switch back to your main window first before using
fuzzyfinder.

I might just stick to IDEA (ruby plugin - same thing as RubyMine). I
get excellent vim navigation plus a few other niceties (refactoring,
little hints you might have made a typo on a method call, etc), and
since I'm apparently not as low on RAM as some of you guys, I'm not
afraid to have it open:)

[Rimantas Liubertas]

> That's the big problem I'm having with MacVim for Rails.. it just ends
> up not polished enough. For example I'm using the following plugins:
> rails plugin, NerdTree, FuzzyFinderTextMate, BufferWipe, and bufmru,
> and things are just awkward sometimes. For example if I'm in the
> NerdTree pane and I then opt to use FuzzyFinder to find a file, the
> file will end up opening in the nerdtree window - not good. You have
> to remember to switch back to your main window first before using
> fuzzyfinder.

Try Command-T:
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3025

Regards,
Rimantas
--
http://rimantas.com/

[Rick R]

On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Rimantas Liubertas <rima...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Try Command-T:
http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3025
 

Much better thanks! (Once I figured out it had to be compiled against ruby 1.8.7 :)
 

--
Rick R