PLEASE FIX THIS LIST

[Pixelmech]

As apparently many e-mails have already said, whoever was in charge of
moving this mailing list to Google made a HUGE and stupid mistake by
automatically adding people to this list.

I too have spent time this morning cleaning out my mailbox and trying
to fix this. Apparently even joining and unsubscribing doesn't seem to
work, as I am still getting emails. This is unheard of. Who migrates a
list and automatically adds people without giving them options or a
choice?

It seems to me the best solution to all the people you just totally
screwed over is to kill the list entirely.

You can then start from scratch with invites or something. But all of
us who want no part of this should not have to deal with this mess
because proper procedure was not followed in moving this list. I can
guarantee you that the emails from "us" are only going to get angrier
and become more frequent until you address this.

Again I say, destroy this list and create a new one. Invite whoever you
want (but not me.)

Thanks.

[Simon Mullis]

I totally agree.

SM

--
Simon Mullis
_________________
si...@mullis.co.uk

[Danilo Gurovich]

Yeah. I'm done here.

Danilo Gurovich
Principal Engineer, Value Added Services
EarthLink
2947 Bradley Drive
Pasadena, CA 91107
626.296.5805 ­ ofc
818.554.4022 ­ mob

³You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have sharks with
frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!²

[Dark Ambient]

I'm sort of surprised it was never discussed beforehand. There may
have been other options, aside from Google groups. Perhaps someone
would have come forward to offer to maintain the list.

S

On 8/19/06, Pixelmech <pixe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[Jack Baty]

> On 8/19/06, Pixelmech <pixe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > As apparently many e-mails have already said, whoever was in charge of
> > moving this mailing list to Google made a HUGE and stupid mistake by
> > automatically adding people to this list.

As for me, I would prefer to be quietly and automatically moved to the
new list. Since that didn't exactly happen, I'll just need to deal
with a few minor email issues until things get sorted out. No biggie.

--
Jack Baty
Fusionary Media
http://www.fusionary.com and http://jackbaty.com/

[Paul Tremblett]

How the hell can I get of this list? I hope whoever pulled this idiotic
move tests his/her code better than he/she tested this.

[njmac...@gmail.com]

I don't understand what problems everyone has had... especially gmail
users. I opened my emails this morning, surprised to find 20
conversations in my inbox. I created a new filter to make messages
sent to rubyonra...@googlegroups.com add the rails tag and skip
the inbox, checked the box that makes it apply the filter to existing
conversations, then voila, everything works as before. I don't
understand why other gmail users are having a problem.
-N

[Tom Dell'Aringa]

Maybe we don't want the mail at all - and maybe we would have liked to have been *asked* first before being added to a list we were in stealth mode on because we didn't want to receive mail. Why is this so difficult to understand? I don't want to spend time filtering my e-mail, I want off this list, like so many other people.

It should be painfully obvious with all the e-mails coming across that this is a major problem that needs attending to immediately. I didn't ask for these e-mails, so I should not be getting them, period.

It's bad enough with spam these days without having to fight overzealous list moderators.

[Tom Cloyd]

Common guys, this is nuts. I'm a rank amateur on this list, but even I can
figure out this current list migration mess, to wit:

[1] migration to a new discussion list server really should NOT be done by
killing the old list and manually recreating the new one. Think about it
just a bit. That makes no sense. What WAS done is the only really
efficient way do it. I'm not aware that the list managers are exactly
getting paid for the expenditure of their time. Efficiency IS a relevant
concern, I think.

[2] Many of us are getting suddenly flooded by list email only because the
header information in the incoming list email has changed (new server,
remember?). Any filters we had set up in our email management programs
need to be manually reset. No one can do that for us. It's a one-time
small cost for the move. Just do it, and get on with life.

Why was the server change made? Who knows. At some point you have to let
administrators administrate. It's their job. Think you can do better? Sign
up to do some work. Meanwhile, have a little trust that they probably
actually thought about it before they decided to do it. Wouldn't you have?

-- t.

================================================
Tom Cloyd, MS MA, LMHC
Private practice Psychotherapist
Bellingham, Washington, U.S.A: (360) 920-1226
<< TC.BestMindHealth.com / BestMindHealth.com >>
<< tomc...@bestmindhealth.com >>
================================================

[marklennox]

> [2] Many of us are getting suddenly flooded by list email only because the
> header information in the incoming list email has changed (new server,
> remember?). Any filters we had set up in our email management programs
> need to be manually reset. No one can do that for us. It's a one-time
> small cost for the move. Just do it, and get on with life.

Not true. I always subscribe as digest. Not a biggie to log on and
change that but I shouldnt have had to - what was the motivation for
moving anyway?

[M]

I for one have no idea how I got on this list. I am getting mail from some
place to my other than gmail address.
Ruby is a nice language. Rails is a POS (IMHO). I would like to know what
address & what list I was on that got
Migrated so I can complain to that list's administrators. This is SPAM. This
is a violation of email ethics.
It is not my job to fix YOUR spam intrusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-M

-----Original Message-----
From: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of njmac...@gmail.com
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:54 AM
To: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: PLEASE FIX THIS LIST

[Louis Simoneau]

Amen to that.

[M]

I don't use an email filter. Apparently I am getting emails from a list I
never subscribed to.
Whoever the dataprocessing whiz that did this should undo it!
M

-----Original Message-----
From: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Cloyd
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 8:12 AM
To: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com

[M]

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

 

---

From: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis Simoneau
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 8:24 AM

To: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: PLEASE FIX THIS LIST - get a clue

[Mat Schaffer]

On Aug 19, 2006, at 10:40 AM, M wrote:

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :

QUICK AND DIRTY!

Good lord, would someone please drop this person off the list?  They obviously don't want to be here and I doubt any of us want they here.

-Mat

[dfl_mar...@yahoo.es]

Oh, God.
I have also 123 messages, but I think it does not take me much time to
delete everything. And jason perhaps would have to have added the
members in the digest mode, not the mail one, but, on the other hand, I
think it's better to add directly the members (we don't have to do
anything else than change the mode of the incomming messages...)

I mean, this is not the end of the world....

> --Apple-Mail-3--548040167
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> X-Google-AttachSize: 4455
>
> <HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
> -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 19, 2006, =
> at 10:40 AM, M wrote:</DIV><BR =
> class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"> <DIV =
> dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes =
> the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> =
> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">QUICK AND =
> DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use =
> Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">QUICK AND DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" =
> color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of =
> people who would use Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" =
> color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">QUICK AND DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV =
> dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV =
> dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes =
> the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> =
> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">QUICK AND =
> DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use =
> Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">QUICK AND DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" =
> color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of =
> people who would use Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" =
> align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" =
> color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">QUICK AND DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV =
> dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV =
> dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes =
> the kind of people who would use Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> =
> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT =
> face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">QUICK AND =
> DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use =
> Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">QUICK AND DIRTY! <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">I guess this SNAFU describes the kind of people who would use =
> Ruby on Rails :</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><SPAN =
> class=3D"656503814-19082006"><FONT face=3D"Arial" color=3D"#0000ff" =
> size=3D"2">QUICK AND =
> DIRTY!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></=
> SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV> =
> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><DIV>Good lord, would someone please drop this =
> person off the list?=A0 They obviously don't want to be here and I doubt =
> any of us want they here.</DIV><DIV>-Mat</DIV></BODY></HTML>=
>
> --Apple-Mail-3--548040167--

[Jochen Kaechelin]

Am Samstag, 19. August 2006 15:53 schrieb njmac...@gmail.com:
> I don't understand what problems everyone has had... especially
> gmail users. I opened my emails this morning, surprised to find
> 20 conversations in my inbox. I created a new filter to make
> messages sent to rubyonra...@googlegroups.com add the rails
> tag and skip the inbox, checked the box that makes it apply the
> filter to existing conversations, then voila, everything works as
> before. I don't understand why other gmail users are having a
> problem.

FACK!

2,3 clicks in kmail to setup the new filter and everything works
again. I subscribed to the "old" list because I want to learn
everything about RoR - I don't care if the emails are sent by
mailman, google mailserver or from everything/everyone else.

--
Jochen

[M]

PLEASE !

---

From: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mat Schaffer
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 9:12 AM

To: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: PLEASE FIX THIS LIST - get a clue

[Austin Ziegler]

On 8/19/06, M <ma...@icyberspace.net> wrote:
>
> I for one have no idea how I got on this list. I am getting mail from some
> place to my other than gmail address.
> Ruby is a nice language. Rails is a POS (IMHO). I would like to know what
> address & what list I was on that got
> Migrated so I can complain to that list's administrators. This is SPAM. This
> is a violation of email ethics.
> It is not my job to fix YOUR spam intrusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stop being a moron. This isn't spam. It never has been. You subscribed
to ra...@lists.rubyonrails.org and apparently never unsubscribed. You
would not have gotten on *this* list otherwise.

Give me a fucking break about "email ethics." Your own ignorance is
not an excuse to accuse others of ethical lapses.

It should have been discussed and announced before the change was
made, but it wasn't. Stop being stupid.

-austin
--
Austin Ziegler * halos...@gmail.com * http://www.halostatue.ca/
* aus...@halostatue.ca * http://www.halostatue.ca/feed/
* aus...@zieglers.ca

[david.he...@gmail.com]

We moved over the Rails list to google because it was pushing dozens of
gigabytes of traffic every day and the mailman load was bringing the
server it shared with the weblog, wiki, and other applications to its
knees.

In the process, we exported the list of members from the old list and
imported them here. That unfortunately meant that people with digest
settings got subscribed with per-email. We're sorry about that. It
should be quick and easy to change. As should it be to unsubscribe if
you don't want to be on the list at all.

[Giles Bowkett]

It's not the end of the world but it was sloppy, inconsiderate, and
LAME AS FUCK. Whoever did it ought to be slapped. The way you do it is
this: You post the migration instructions on the list, many many
times. That way anybody who cares sees it and follows the instructions
-- and nobody else gets inconvenienced or SPAMMED.

Honestly, I think an apology is in order.

--
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org

[Manu]

Whoever took everyone emails without asking need to
read "producing open source software" from karl
Fogel(one of the guy that wrote Subversion, and many
more good software).

This will give you some very big good hint on mailing
list : Things you should do or not, things you should
tell or not..

You have just stepped in all the "do not".

Swearing and insulting people is definitely something
that is not ok. Because you might be thousand miles
away behing a computer does not make it ok and make
you feel safe. So avoid this type of comments will be
better for everyone in the community

You made a mistake, and it can happen. But you should
at least explain your choices and apologize if need to
be rather than being defensive and insulting. This is
causing this long thread of emails that are
unproductive for everyone

And definitely, like any code changes, you need to
submit for approval or debate changes to the mailing
list or any other part of the project. Making decision
on your own is making yourself more a dictatorship
than a democratic type of project. Open source is
about working altogether and requires a bit more of
communication than just insulting and send bad
messages to the rest of the community.

Also this is were leader of a project should step in
rather than ignoring the issue and let this huge flame
was going on

Manu

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Craig White]

----
thanks for the efforts

I guess you can't please everyone all the time

Craig

[Joe Francis]

Could one of you with admin access add the [Rails] back into the subject
line? It's a configuration option in google groups to turn it on.

That would fix everyone's filters and stop those complaints with
practically no effort on your part.

Also, there are a lot of us that don't filter this into a folder, but
appreciate the subject line tag.

thank you!

[ara.t....@noaa.gov]

that's not the biggest issue. the biggest issue is that the old subject
headers were dropped and everyone's filters were broken.

consider: i get about 1500 emails per day. broken filters mean a spammed a
inbox. i happen to be in the middle of a panic situation at work and am
conversing with my boss in thailand - to my suprise his messages came in
between hundreds of rails messages. it's fixed now, but i had to do it by
hand.

it would be great if you guys added the old subject headers in rather than
asking 100,000 people to reconfigure their clients. imho.

regards.

-a
--
to foster inner awareness, introspection, and reasoning is more efficient than
meditation and prayer.
- h.h. the 14th dali lama

[Manu]

I don t think the problem is moving the mailing list..
The problem is about moving it without disussing it in
the community. A successful(and I am not saying ROR is
not) project knows that community is important and
needs to be involved in some of the changes you make.
You cannot just make the change and expect (Specially
for mailing list that really involves the community)
no reaction or everyone to be happy. Some people might
have given feedback prior to the move.

It is easy techincally to fix this for anyone but that
is the issue here. The issue is about leader stepping
in at the right time with the right word and keep the
project considering people opinion on this kind of
change or at least warn then...

Manu

[Austin Ziegler]

On 8/19/06, Giles Bowkett <gil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's not the end of the world but it was sloppy, inconsiderate, and

These two statements are true.

> LAME AS FUCK. Whoever did it ought to be slapped.

This is not.

> The way you do it is
> this: You post the migration instructions on the list, many many
> times. That way anybody who cares sees it and follows the instructions

Not necessarily. I have been through other list migrations before.
Some have been using the instructions that you've indicated, others
have been through automatic migration (although keeping the user's
mail preferences if at all possible). The *only* mistake made in this
migration was that there was no mention of it until it was already
done.

That's it.

> -- and nobody else gets inconvenienced or SPAMMED.

I don't think that these words mean quite what you think they mean.
Especially the last. (It's not spam. You *did* subscribe to the other
list. It is therefore sensible to assume that you wanted to be
included in the migration since the old list was going away. In no way
can this change be considered spam, and anyone who thinks otherwise --
or reports abuse -- is simply being a moronic twit.)

> Honestly, I think an apology is in order.

Yes. We're waiting for that, Mr Bowkett. From you and the others who
have acted like children since the list migration.

[Jeremy McAnally]

How are you getting spammed? If you were subscribed before, you got
the e-mails anyhow. You WERE subscribed before weren't you? Unless
somehow Mailman decided to go rogue and find your e-mail somewhere
else.

Is ONE DAY of non-digest subscription going to bring your machine to its knees?

I don't think anyone should apologize for the way it was handled; you
know if they took your approach, many people would miss it and then
those people would whine about it and say "WHY ARNT I GETING MSGS
ANYMORE!? PLZ HELP!!!?? KLOLTHXBYE!!" This was obviously the most
convenient and intelligent way to accomplish this, though I do wish
they had mentioned something at least on the blog so I could have been
aware of it beforehand (the initial e-mail was a bit unexpected and
made me suspicious).

--Jeremy

On 8/19/06, Giles Bowkett <gil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

[Jochen Kaechelin]

Am Samstag, 19. August 2006 18:27 schrieb Joe Francis:
> Could one of you with admin access add the [Rails] back into the
> subject line? It's a configuration option in google groups to
> turn it on.

what will happen if I send you an email with "[Rails]" in the
subject? I do know nothing about google-mail - I run a mailserver
by my own - but I think its a very bad idea to filter mails from
lists by inspection the subject.

Can you give me a hint?

--
Jochen

[Joe Francis]

Nothing will happen, but it will silence 99% of the complaining, and
this list can get back on topic and the admins can be heros.

[Gustav - Railist]

We've all got a problem
We all want it solved

Right now, the list of people who can do that is vanishingly small
maybe we shouldn't piss off the only people who can fix this?

and if my filters can't be fixed...cae sera sera,
in two weeks time, will it still matter?

anyway, ignore we if it please you

gustav Paul

[Alastair Moore]

On 19 Aug 2006, at 17:27, Jochen Kaechelin wrote:

what will happen if I send you an email with "[Rails]" in the 

subject? I do know nothing about google-mail - I run a mailserver 

by my own - but I think its a very bad idea to filter mails from 

lists by inspection the subject.

Can you give me a hint?

That's how I filter on every other mailing list I use and never had any problems. I've never had an email from anyone saying [Rails] in the subject. What would be a better way of filtering in your experience? Currently am filtering on the reply-to address on the new Rails list.

Alastair

------

Alastair Moore

Standards compliant web development with Ruby On Rails, PHP and ASP

www.kozmo.co.uk

07738 399038

[Jochen Kaechelin]

Am Samstag, 19. August 2006 18:55 schrieb Alastair Moore:
> On 19 Aug 2006, at 17:27, Jochen Kaechelin wrote:
> > what will happen if I send you an email with "[Rails]" in the
> > subject? I do know nothing about google-mail - I run a
> > mailserver by my own - but I think its a very bad idea to
> > filter mails from lists by inspection the subject.
> >
> > Can you give me a hint?
>
> That's how I filter on every other mailing list I use and never
> had any problems. I've never had an email from anyone saying
> [Rails] in the subject. What would be a better way of filtering
> in your experience? Currently am filtering on the reply-to
> address on the new Rails list.

As already said I do not know how gmail filters work, but the most
preferable way to filter mails from mailing-lists is look at
the "Mailing-List" entry in the mail header:

X-Google-Loop: groups
Mailing-List: list rubyonra...@googlegroups.com;
contact rubyonrails...@googlegroups.com
List-Id: <rubyonrails-talk.googlegroups.com>
List-Post: <mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <mailto:rubyonrail...@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe:
<http://googlegroups.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/subscribe>,
<mailto:rubyonrails-ta...@googlegroups.com>
X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.wlanhacking.de

I use kmail and some webbased email clients and it just works fine
for me.

--
Jochen

[Craig White]

On Sat, 2006-08-19 at 17:55 +0100, Alastair Moore wrote:
>
> On 19 Aug 2006, at 17:27, Jochen Kaechelin wrote:
>
> > what will happen if I send you an email with "[Rails]" in the
> > subject? I do know nothing about google-mail - I run a mailserver
> > by my own - but I think its a very bad idea to filter mails from
> > lists by inspection the subject.
> >
> >
> > Can you give me a hint?
>
>
> That's how I filter on every other mailing list I use and never had
> any problems. I've never had an email from anyone saying [Rails] in
> the subject. What would be a better way of filtering in your
> experience? Currently am filtering on the reply-to address on the new
> Rails list.

----
All of the MUA's (mail user agents commonly known as e-mail
applications) I know of have the ability to show all of the headers and
within the headers of virtually all mail lists is a distinguishing label
for the list itself which you can use for rules.

What used to work Header: XBeen-There: ra...@lists.rubyonrails.org
What now works: Mailing-List: list rubyonra...@googlegroups.com

You don't really need an entry in the subject at all - you only need to
know how to use headers within your rules

Craig

[Tom Mornini]

On Aug 19, 2006, at 10:16 AM, Craig White wrote:

> What used to work Header: XBeen-There: ra...@lists.rubyonrails.org
> What now works: Mailing-List: list rubyonra...@googlegroups.com

I'll give a different spin. Not sure why anyone would choose to
filter on Subject: contains [RAILS] when:

before: List-Id: contains "rails.lists.rubyonrails.org"
after: List-Id: contains "rubyonrails-talk.googlegroups.com"

Works just fine. Those List-Id: headers are in there for a reason, I
think.

--
-- Tom Mornini

[John Smith]

Whaa, is it REALLY that hard to change Google Group's
settings yourself?

--- Pixelmech <pixe...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Kurth Bemis]

I think that most filters would work if all subjects were tagged with
[Rails] again. Should be pretty simple.

~k

--

Ozone Computer
Computer consulting, Services and Sales.
9 Main Street
Springfield, Vermont
1-802-885-8030

[John Smith]

And I hope you write no code whatsoever since you find
it so difficult to manage your Google Groups
subscriptions.

--- Paul Tremblett <paul.tr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> How the hell can I get of this list? I hope whoever
> pulled this idiotic
> move tests his/her code better than he/she tested
> this.

[Clayton Cottingham]

All the mail for this list comes from
rubyonra...@googlegroups.com on behalf of original sender

just filter all mail from that email addy to a folder

done

-----Original Message-----
From: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rubyonra...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kurth Bemis
Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 10:45 AM
To: rubyonra...@googlegroups.com

[Bill Walton]

Paul Tremblett wrote:

> How the hell can I get of this list?

At the bottom of each email you receive, you'll find

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> rubyonrails-ta...@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk

hth,
Bill

[Rob Sanheim]

That works, or you can just filter on the the "to" address for gmail.
I don't think gmail has options for filtering on a specific header
field, only to/from/body/etc.

Regardless, there should be no reason anyone with gmail has a problem
- just create a new filter or modify the current one to have the old
rails address, and the new google address in the to: line.

- rob
--
http://www.robsanheim.com
http://www.seekingalpha.com
http://www.ajaxian.com

[david.he...@gmail.com]

> it would be great if you guys added the old subject headers in rather than
> asking 100,000 people to reconfigure their clients. imho.

Good suggestion. Done.

[Michael Modica]

This caused a problem for me and I'm not horribly upset but I believe
that the people who made the decision should be more cautious next time.

I WAS/AM subscribed to the rails mailing list. HOWEVER, I configured it
to NOT sent me emails. For me, I didn't have any filters previously
because I didn't need it based on that setting. While this means I was
subscribed to the list, I specifically requested to NOT have my inbox
filled.

When the list was migrated, it would have been nice to not include
people who asked to NOT receive emails. I want to be part of the list,
I want to post but I want to go to the forums or other web sites that
have the post history. I don't want all the messages put in my personal
email account.

Make sense? Am I unreasonable?

Michael

--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

[DHH]

> Make sense? Am I unreasonable?

I didn't make the export lists myself, but I don't believe that mailman
offered an easy way to export people in lists according to all their
individual posting configurations. And it would not have been a prudent
use of time to go through all 5,000 subscribers and manually sort them
into piles according to their settings.

Even if we could do that, I don't believe Google has a way of
bulk-importing people with different settings.

So as mentioned earlier, it's unfortunate that posting settings
couldn't be brought over, but it was a trade-off we were willing to
make in order to restore the use of Trac, Subversion, the wiki, and the
blog, which the immense traffic of the previous mailing list had
brought to their knees.

[Steve Bergman]

Just an observation from someone evaluating Rails.

I am unaffected by this migration as I only use the web interface.

However, putting the handling of this migration together with the
cavalier, cloak and dagger, security through obscurity, handling of the
1.1.4->1.1.5->1.1.6 affair, I'm having substantial doubts as to just how
seriously I can take the Ruby On Rails project.

This is not a complaint. Just consider it constructive feedback.

[John Smith]

LOL, you and the others crying about this are the
ones being immature.

--- Tom Dell'Aringa <pixe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> John, have you even been reading what is going on? I
> have tried to change my
> settings, it doesn't work. I have
> subscribed/unsubscribed over and over, I
> am still geting email and my filters have no effect.
> And people like you
> making matters worse aren't helping either. Thanks
> for your maturity though.
>
> On 8/19/06, John Smith <john_smi...@yahoo.com>

[John Smith]

Slapped? Good God, grow up you idiot.

[Giles Bowkett]

This is why I had this list filtered to the trash before today.

Fuck off.

On 8/19/06, John Smith <john_smi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

[John Smith]

Gee Giles Bowkett, you're a real class act. Glad to
see your professional behavior is forever documented
in Google Groups for all your associates -- present
and future -- to see.

Fuck off yourself.

[Giles Bowkett]

Stop e-mailing me already, you horrible monkeys!!!!!!!!!

[John Smith]

You're into goats, you sick fuck?

Domain ID:D105673065-LROR
Domain Name:GILESGOATBOY.ORG
Created On:02-Feb-2005 23:41:24 UTC
Last Updated On:03-Feb-2006 02:20:45 UTC
Expiration Date:02-Feb-2007 23:41:24 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Schlund+Partner AG (R73-LROR)
Status:OK
Registrant ID:SPAG-32685198
Registrant Name:Giles Bowkett
Registrant Street1:HC70 Box 361
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Pecos
Registrant State/Province:NM
Registrant Postal Code:87552
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.5054666631
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:gil...@gmail.com

[John Smith]

What a dumbass...

[Giles Bowkett]

Dude, what on earth did you post my domain registry info for?

What on earth is that about?

[gil...@gmail.com]

> > Honestly, I think an apology is in order.
>

> Yes. We're waiting for that, Mr Bowkett. From you and the others who
> have acted like children since the list migration.

LOL

keep waiting dude!

--
Giles Bowkett
www.gilesgoatboy.org

[Lori Olson]

The fact is, it was really simple for me, subscribed stealth, reading the web forum, with my work email, to unsubscribe that email (link in the original notification), and then re-subscribe with my GMail account.  Took me a whole 45 seconds or so.  For 2 different mailing lists.  Less if you are really peeved, and you don't want to re-subscribe.

It is kinda sad this has been such a problem.  But people under stress tend to blow up, and I think we need to understand their point of view.  They are pissed.  Ok, I think the message has been received.   Can we move on now?  Please?

Regards, Lori

[gil...@gmail.com]

> On 8/19/06, John Smith <john_smi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > You're into goats, you sick fuck?

criticize my sexuality all you want, you judgemental asshole!

once you've had goats, you never go back!

[gil...@gmail.com]

you should have just shut down the list, announcing it repeatedly ahead
of time in blogs and on the list itself.

I'll take back my comments about murdering the perpetrators of this
fiasco with a chainsaw, but honestly, dude, you totally fucked up.
Sorry but you did.

And to whoever posted my domain contact info, including my address and
phone number, and told me I was a sick fuck who was into goat sex, I'll
have you know, the goat who lives at that address is a very happy goat.

So there.

--
Giles Bowkett
www.gilesgoatboy.org

[Alastair Moore]

On 19 Aug 2006, at 23:06, gil...@gmail.com wrote:

DHH wrote:

you should have just shut down the list, announcing it repeatedly ahead

of time in blogs and on the list itself.

I'll take back my comments about murdering the perpetrators of this

fiasco with a chainsaw, but honestly, dude, you totally fucked up.

Sorry but you did.

Totally fucking up is shooting an innocent Brazilian immigrant instead of a terrorist. Yes, people on the list could have been informed better/more in advance but in the grand scheme of things, this is really not such a big deal and the fact that there have been a hundred plus messages about the subject is very sad. It's about a hundred messages about the subject too many. There are millions of starving people around the world, get on with your lives. Please.

And to whoever posted my domain contact info, including my address and

phone number, and told me I was a sick fuck who was into goat sex, I'll

have you know, the goat who lives at that address is a very happy goat.

Big kiss to the goat.

------

Alastair Moore

Standards compliant web development with Ruby On Rails, PHP and ASP

www.kozmo.co.uk

07738 399038

[DHH]

> Stop e-mailing me already, you horrible monkeys!!!!!!!!!

Done. You've received your courtesy kick and ban. You're welcome.

[Abdur-Rahman Advany]

Its looking like rails it getting more attention from the mainstream
(stupid) crowd... : (

[carmen]

On Sun Aug 20, 2006 at 03:53:53AM +0200, Abdur-Rahman Advany wrote:
>
> Its looking like rails it getting more attention from the mainstream
> (stupid) crowd... : (

just wait till its included in OSuX...

[Manu]

Dear David,

Well, how disapointed I was to find out this flame war
on ruby and rails. I love rails but this is the second
time that the response/action coming from the leaders
of that project (security problem and today's
migration) are surprising.

Using the open source for now 6 years, I understand it
is not an easy thing to manage an open source project
and that you are way busy fixing problem in the code
or design. But documenting, communicating and
responding to your user and the community are part
(That you like it or not) of a successful project and
of your daily life now. You cannot just let those type
of discussion getting into the way of your project.

Swearing people, angry people and agressive words are
not acceptable but so does sarcastic response from the
leaders of a project. Those people should have clearly
got the message from you that it is not ok to do so in
your forum. Instead you responded ironically and
sarcastically as if it was not mattering.

As a leader you must step and still respond
respectfully but also be firm on not being acceptable
behavior when needs to be. You also must not fall into
that game of responding in a sarcastic manner. You
are sending some wrong messages in the community of
rails. This will make people think it is ok to swear
or that you can respond in a sarcastic manner.

I have to agree that some people overeacted but you
have to understand their point of view and their
surprise to find tons of emails. Some simple kind(even
a bit apologetics) words right away would have kept
them cool and patient. You know it was not ok to not
warn all of us.

Again it is also part of the successful project to
clearly communicate with its users and community.
Hiding things or thinking that the community will
accept any changes because this how you want it is a
mistake bigger than just changing an email list. This
could send the wrong message to newbies or people
outside or the community.

I am not trying to put any judgment on you but just
reflect and make some suggestion based on my
observation. Again, Karl Fogel wrote an amazing book
(which I got at the OSCON in July) and honnestly this
is a book that should be read by most people who want
their project to be successful not only codewise but
community wise.. Very well written and gets into all
those sort of issues that can make a project fail
although good in terms of technology. He might not
have all the answer but he clearly has some very good
points that you did not apply today and could hurt
later.

Honnestly, I hope rails will keep on being successful
and that people will keep answering the way they have
been until today. I have found this mailing list to be
very helpful.

Cheers

Emmanuel

[John Robitaille]

What's all this psychic damage about?
Where's the sense of proportion?
How does the mild annoyance of having mailing list preferences and/or mail app filters broken for less than a day metastasize into ridicule of the m/l's topic, or the putative favorite os of the community?
Does all this flap-doodle (that's right, flap-doodle) portend a decline in the quality of this mailing list? The larger rails community?

I've been interested in rails since last November, and subscribed to this list since April 2nd. Until now, I've been a lurker. I've read along as newbies have asked questions that would have been laughed off any other list carefully answered, sometimes by experts. Rarely have I even seen a question just ignored. This list has been a wonderful resource for learning rails, maybe the best resource. Now all this noise, for what?

I read this list in digest form and filter it to its own folder, so for me the double whammy. It took about a minute to decide that the change happened was legit and not a hi-jacking, during which time I found the googlegroups welcome message. Two more minutes to reset my presets and apply the appropriate filter and I'm back in business. Now sure, a hint that this was coming would've been nice, but what would it have changed? Nothing. It would still have taken nearly three minutes to settle myself. I'll eat those three minutes if it means the list doesn't go dark while the 'perfect' solution is found.

Remember guys, the best is the enemy of the good.

JpR

[Mat Schaffer]

On Aug 19, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Joe Francis wrote:

>
> Could one of you with admin access add the [Rails] back into the
> subject
> line? It's a configuration option in google groups to turn it on.
>
> That would fix everyone's filters and stop those complaints with
> practically no effort on your part.
>
> Also, there are a lot of us that don't filter this into a folder, but
> appreciate the subject line tag.
>
> thank you!

Awww... I was kind of enjoying the lack of it, just because people's
email clients don't always handle it nicely. (i.e., the Re: isn't
always in the same place).

But if it'll fix all the bad joojoo going around lately I'm all for it.
-Mat

[Craig Beck]

On Aug 19, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Manu wrote:

>
> I don t think the problem is moving the mailing list..
> The problem is about moving it without disussing it in
> the community. A successful(and I am not saying ROR is
> not) project knows that community is important and
> needs to be involved in some of the changes you make.

Oh crap. It could have been discussed forever and I still would have
missed it, buecause I don't stay that current with my personal email
it would still have been surprised with the change.

Not that I care about the change. It just means, instead of filtering
all rails email into another folder I get to twice a week I read
things more frequently.

> You cannot just make the change and expect (Specially
> for mailing list that really involves the community)
> no reaction or everyone to be happy. Some people might
> have given feedback prior to the move.

As to the 'secret' subscribers who never got mail and don't want
any... I've got some great stock tips, have a line on some unclaimed
nigerean wealth, and know how to find you the best deal on viagra

so filter that!

>
> It is easy techincally to fix this for anyone but that
> is the issue here. The issue is about leader stepping
> in at the right time with the right word and keep the
> project considering people opinion on this kind of
> change or at least warn then...

I agree that someone should have stepped up to the plate and be the
face of the mail list.

...of course there have been so many jackasses going off the deep end
about it that... well why bother?