On 6/6/06, Florian Gross <flor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hal Fulton wrote: >> Who owns ruby-forum.com and why is it connected >> to the mailing list? >> Is this policy open for discussion? > I think it being connected to the mailing list has a lot of benefits and > as far as I know there has been no spam caused by it yet.
No, not spam. If, however, you look at the quality of postings that originate there, there's a lot of trollish and generally impolite behaviour.
> It would be cool if it had support for receiving attachments, though.
It'd be even cooler if it had more than a single line in the main list of "forums" that the "Ruby Forum" is a gateway to the ruby-talk mailing list. Or if the posting forum didn't allow you to post to ruby-talk's gateway as a guest. Or if it even said "hey, moron! you're not just posting to a web forum here! you're posting to a mailing list!"
I really like the effort that Andreas has put into Ruby-Forum and it's good software, but I think that there are impedance mismatch issues with its use as a mailing list gateway. I don't know how much it affects people who use "real" threading mail and newsreaders, but it also mangles subject lines and messes up Google's grouping in gmail.
There's a definite etiquette problem, and unless something is changed, I *do* think that the benefits are outweighed by the negatives.
On Tue, 2006-06-06 at 21:03 +0900, Austin Ziegler wrote: > On 6/6/06, Florian Gross <flor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hal Fulton wrote: > >> Who owns ruby-forum.com and why is it connected > >> to the mailing list?
> >> Is this policy open for discussion? > > I think it being connected to the mailing list has a lot of benefits and > > as far as I know there has been no spam caused by it yet.
> No, not spam. If, however, you look at the quality of postings that > originate there, there's a lot of trollish and generally impolite > behaviour.
> > It would be cool if it had support for receiving attachments, though.
> It'd be even cooler if it had more than a single line in the main list > of "forums" that the "Ruby Forum" is a gateway to the ruby-talk > mailing list. Or if the posting forum didn't allow you to post to > ruby-talk's gateway as a guest.
Just that would be an improvement, IMO.
> I really like the effort that Andreas has put into Ruby-Forum and it's > good software, but I think that there are impedance mismatch issues > with its use as a mailing list gateway. I don't know how much it > affects people who use "real" threading mail and newsreaders, but it > also mangles subject lines and messes up Google's grouping in gmail.
In evolution, subject lines are okay but when I hit reply to a ruby-forum message its headers are set up to go to the newsgroup rather than the list. That's pretty annoying now they're separate (and ruby-forum posts don't seem to hit the newsgroup anyway).
Ross Bamford wrote: >> [...] Or if the posting forum didn't allow you to post to >> ruby-talk's gateway as a guest.
> Just that would be an improvement, IMO.
That might be helpful.
I would hate to see the forum disconnected from the list. In combination with firefox tabs and mouse gestures, its one of the fastest ways to skim the list.
It's nice to skim the list, but I find it's easy to misquote when you have all the posts in front of you, it gives you the impression that you're on a forum where it really doesn't matter. A "ruby-talk" label in Gmail is just as easy, I've found.
On 6/6/06, Jim Weirich <j...@weirichhouse.org> wrote:
> >> [...] Or if the posting forum didn't allow you to post to > >> ruby-talk's gateway as a guest.
> > Just that would be an improvement, IMO.
> That might be helpful.
> I would hate to see the forum disconnected from the list. In > combination with firefox tabs and mouse gestures, its one of the > fastest ways to skim the list.
>>> [...] Or if the posting forum didn't allow you to post to >>> ruby-talk's gateway as a guest.
>> Just that would be an improvement, IMO.
> That might be helpful.
It might be helpful, but I'm not really sure that it's the medium of posting that's the problem. There wasn't any similar problem when the usenet gateway worked.
That said, I'm also of the view that the quality and tone of the questions from ruby-forum often leave something to be desired.
I have a hunch this is because google groups and mailing lists tend to be used by people who already know what they're looking for, and already know where the docs live. I'd bet that a number of the people posting from the forum are probably not aware of all the resources available to them.
I think that it might be a better improvement to add links to standard Ruby documentation (ruby-lang.org, online Pickaxe, ruby- doc.org, Poignant Guide, et alia) on the forum pages - currently they only link to other forums. I'm pretty firm in my belief that this would benefit everyone involved. And I mean, really, what good is a 'ruby forum' that lacks even a link to the ruby homepage?
If such links actually improve things, then everyone benefits. If it doesn't, well, we can always ask to move it read-only later on.
> That said, I'm also of the view that the quality and tone of the > questions from ruby-forum often leave something to be desired.
> I have a hunch this is because google groups and mailing lists tend to > be used by people who already know what they're looking for, and > already know where the docs live. I'd bet that a number of the people > posting from the forum are probably not aware of all the resources > available to them.
I read an article on someone's site that critiqued Ruby form the view of a PHP developer, and I got the strong sense that this person thought Ruby and Rails were one and the same, and that Ruby Forum was the only public forum.
People come to Ruby by a variety of vectors, but not all of them encourage the Big Picture. So we end up with various subcultures and communities, with assorted friction.
> I think that it might be a better improvement to add links to standard > Ruby documentation (ruby-lang.org, online Pickaxe, ruby- doc.org, > Poignant Guide, et alia) on the forum pages - currently they only link > to other forums. I'm pretty firm in my belief that this would benefit > everyone involved. And I mean, really, what good is a 'ruby forum' > that lacks even a link to the ruby homepage?
Agreed. It might give people a fuller sense of the Ruby community and available resources.
On Wed, 2006-06-07 at 03:36 +0900, James Britt wrote:
> > I think that it might be a better improvement to add links to > standard > > Ruby documentation (ruby-lang.org, online Pickaxe, ruby- doc.org, > > Poignant Guide, et alia) on the forum pages - currently they only > link > > to other forums. I'm pretty firm in my belief that this would > benefit > > everyone involved. And I mean, really, what good is a 'ruby > forum' > > that lacks even a link to the ruby homepage?
> Agreed. It might give people a fuller sense of the Ruby community > and > available resources.
I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. Probably it would be a good idea to email any suggestions you have directly to him. His email address is at the bottom of the web page.
> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is > responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. > Probably it > would be a good idea to email any suggestions you have directly to > him. > His email address is at the bottom of the web page.
Tim Hunter wrote: > I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is > responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ...
> Tim Hunter wrote: > > I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is > > responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ... > Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
Austin Ziegler wrote: > On 6/6/06, Dave Burt <d...@burt.id.au> wrote:
>> Tim Hunter wrote: >> > I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is >> > responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ... >> Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
> I try. ;) GMail makes it easier.
I also try. :) I'd venture to say that nearly every byte of it flashes before my eyes at some point.
> Tim Hunter wrote: >> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is >> responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ...
> Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and tell me what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails per day.
-- Eric Hodel - drbr...@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant
From: Eric Hodel [mailto:drbr...@segment7.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:34 AM
> On Jun 6, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Dave Burt wrote:
> > Tim Hunter wrote: > >> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is > >> responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ...
> > Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
> I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and tell me > what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails > per day.
Sound exciting. What is the principle, on which your tool selects "interesting" postings? By keywords?
> From: Eric Hodel [mailto:drbr...@segment7.net] > Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 3:34 AM >> On Jun 6, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Dave Burt wrote:
>>> Tim Hunter wrote: >>>> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is >>>> responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ...
>>> Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
>> I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and tell me >> what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails >> per day.
> Sound exciting. What is the principle, on which your tool selects > "interesting" postings? By keywords?
I'm planning on using per-mailbox Bayesian analysis for phase three. What's interesting to me on this mailing list is not the same as what's interesting on FreeBSD-current.
-- Eric Hodel - drbr...@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant
Eric Hodel wrote: > On Jun 6, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Dave Burt wrote:
>> Tim Hunter wrote:
>>> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is >>> responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. ...
>> Does anyone read all 4000 posts per month?
> I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and tell me > what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails per > day.
This reminds me of the "electric monk" of Douglas Adams. Just as dishwashers wash dishes so we don't have to, and VCRs watch TV for us, the electric monk believes things on our behalf...
Now if you can only write software that will not only find the interesting emails and read them, but post relevant replies... ;)
> >> I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and tell me > >> what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails > >> per day.
> > Sound exciting. What is the principle, on which your tool selects > > "interesting" postings? By keywords?
> I'm planning on using per-mailbox Bayesian analysis for phase three. > What's interesting to me on this mailing list is not the same as > what's interesting on FreeBSD-current.
Bayesian filtering on a topic by topic basis!! Awesome!!!
Integrate that into the mailreader in a transparent way and even Gmail will look clunky!!
Nice work.. I did something to deal with my own Maildir overflowage, though it's simpler and infinitely more hacky. But, it's been working well for me for quite awhile now.
Dir[srcdir+"*"].each do |oldname| age_s = Time.new - File.mtime(oldname) if age_s > (expire*24*60*60) if dstdir if File.split(oldname)[1] =~ /^\d+[^:]*(:.*)?$/ newname = sprintf("#{dstdir}/%d.%d.autoarchive.%07d%s", Time.now.to_i, Process.pid, i, Regexp.last_match(1)) i += 1 #puts "#{oldname} -> #{newname}" File.rename(oldname, newname) end else File.delete(oldname) #puts "delete #{oldname}" end end #rescue SystemCallError # puts "Error moving #{oldname} -> #{newname}" #end end end
>> >> I'm writing tools to read my mailing list traffic for me and >> tell me >> >> what's interesting. I get between 500 and 1000 mailing list mails >> >> per day.
>> > Sound exciting. What is the principle, on which your tool selects >> > "interesting" postings? By keywords?
>> I'm planning on using per-mailbox Bayesian analysis for phase three. >> What's interesting to me on this mailing list is not the same as >> what's interesting on FreeBSD-current.
> Bayesian filtering on a topic by topic basis!! Awesome!!!
> Integrate that into the mailreader in a transparent way and even Gmail > will look clunky!!
I use the plain old flag button in the mail client to keep things simple.
If a message is unread and flagged I should read it. If I didn't think it was really interesting I'll unflag it.
-- Eric Hodel - drbr...@segment7.net - http://blog.segment7.net This implementation is HODEL-HASH-9600 compliant
Matthew Smillie wrote: >> I get the idea that Andreas Schwarz, the man behind ruby-forum, is >> responsive but doesn't always keep up with all the postings. >> Probably it >> would be a good idea to email any suggestions you have directly to >> him. >> His email address is at the bottom of the web page.
> I've sent him a pointer and summary.
Here's to hoping we get not only a response, but some action. It hasn't been just one time where I've thought to myself "I'd just go and code <improvement XYZ> myself, but I don't have access to ruby-forum.com". I realize that RForum may be open source, but no one but Andreas can go in and hack up SPECIFICALLY ruby-forum.com's installation.
I'm ready, willing and able to code most of the asked-for changes.
As a ruby-forum.com user, I'd love to see it - improve - have issues removed - not disappear - not be disliked by an increasing percentage of ruby-talk "real MUA users" - not develop a bad reputation
How about adding an extra header to the messages sent via the forum gateway? Then you can just let people's mail filters do their thing if they don't want the forum posts.
I realize that it might be a bad idea to just blow away responses in the middle of the thread, but most mail clients can do other things to indicate you want to skip it (decrease priority? tags? et cetera).
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