OK, How About This? (RPG Blogger Book Project)

[Zachary Houghton]

We've seen the Open Gaming Table, and we've seen Gnome Stew's
excellent Eureka!

What about the RPG Bloggers Network creating a giant (and I mean
giant) book of random tables? We could help support some of the
technical network items with it, or donate any proceeds to charity.

[Zachary Houghton]

Sorry, hit Send too soon. :)

I'm talking hundreds of random tables. Tables for every occasion.
Some you may never use, some you may use once a week.

The Really Damn Big Book of Tables
By the Writers of the RPG Bloggers Network

[Nick Miller]

I'm up for anything that will get me published.  :)

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[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

I am so there. This sounds like a great idea. I can't tell you how many times I've had to compile tables myself. Do you have a larger pitch for this project, or did the idea just come upon you?

[Zachary Houghton]

Just hit me, so this is all ground-up.

On Jul 22, 12:36 am, Amadeo Bloodtalon <ama...@darkness.com> wrote:
> I am so there. This sounds like a great idea. I can't tell you how many
> times I've had to compile tables myself. Do you have a larger pitch for this
> project, or did the idea just come upon you?
>

> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Nick Miller <deadgo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm up for anything that will get me published.  :)
>

> > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Zachary Houghton <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com

> > > wrote:
>
> >> Sorry, hit Send too soon. :)
>
> >> I'm talking hundreds of random tables. Tables for every occasion.
> >> Some you may never use, some you may use once a week.
>
> >> The Really Damn Big Book of Tables
> >> By the Writers of the RPG Bloggers Network
>
> >> On Jul 21, 11:20 pm, Zachary Houghton <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > We've seen the Open Gaming Table, and we've seen Gnome Stew's
> >> > excellent Eureka!
>
> >> > What about the RPG Bloggers Network creating a giant (and I mean
> >> > giant) book of random tables?  We could help support some of the
> >> > technical network items with it, or donate any proceeds to charity.
>
> >> --
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> >> "rpgbloggers" group.
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> >>http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.
>
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[Lizard Lizard]

I like random tables. :)

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[Stuart Robertson]

I think this sounds cool. How do you want to move this forward? Do we each chime in here, email, email a finished table etc?

Are you just looking for non-system specific stuff and/or what sort of license will it be released under? (No point in doing OGL without WotC stuff)

Stuart

Sent from my iPhone

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[Anthony Laffan]

I'd totally be down as well. Especially since you could probably have a lot of fun if we're doing tables for every occasion.

Would percentile work best? It's fairly system non-specific, and most gamers should have 2d10 just lying around somewhere. Also lets us just go nuts with the tables and be vague rule wise. I.E. for a bow/cross bow critical hit table "The bolt goes through the targets eye, inflicting any and all 'missing an eye' penalties on it and stunning it for the next D10 rounds as it can do not but clutch at the eye and howl in pain"

As opposed to having to cater tables to a specific system and the rules inherent in them.

--
Anthony
http://www.realityrefracted.com
http://www.rpgbloggers.com
http://www.roleplaymedia.net

[Will Hopkins]

I'm definitely interested!  A great thought/creativity exercise and very useful to boot!

Will

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

Count me in... :)
--Fitz

--
Brian Fitzpatrick (aka "Fitz")
Lair of the Green Knight (Blog) - http://writer.fitzhome.com
Moebius Adventures Games (Blog) - http://blog.moebiusadventures.com
BlogCritics.org - http://blogcritics.org/writers/fitz/

[Dave Chalker]

I think the important thing would be to make it different than the excellent Ultimate Toolbox product put out by AEG. That, plus some of the other PDFs sold on DriveThruRPG, are enough to supply me with enough useful tables for my game for a lifetime. So recognizing the competition (I'm sure you could be better edited than UT) would be important if that's the product you want to go forward with.

-Dave

[The Tome - Jeff Greiner]

Goodman Games also has the PC Pearls and GM Gems products that while not exactly the same, is likely to have some overlap.

That said, I'd contribute a table or twelve. :-)

Jeff Greiner
The Tome Host!


The Tome is a D&D Show 
http://www.thetomeshow.com

[Johnn Four]

I already have tables on my blog, and a series of more in the works,
the
first of which will appear Monday.

If it's ok to put posted material into this, I'm definitely interested
in:

1 Contributing
2 Supplying a table
3 Supplying two tables
4 Contributing one and a half tables
5 Roll twice, ignoring this result if rolled again
6 Hey, you knew somebody was going to reply like this, it's in our
blood

@Dave - what other table products have you bought from RPGNow?
@Jeff - Are PC Pearls and GM Gems any good?

I think my favourite table book of all time is Central Casting: Heroes
of Legend.

Cheers,

Johnn Four
http://www.roleplayingtips.com
http://www.campaignmastery.com
http://gamer-lifestyle.com

[Zachary Houghton]

Well, I think these are all things that need to be addressed. It
could be a really fun community project.

Perhaps first we should look at overall participation, and how people
want to help. Do we have anyone with editing/publishing experience
who wants to kick in?

As far as licensing, do we want OGL, Creative Commons? No license at
all and just avoid IP?

I would think the best way would be some general chapter headings to
get started. The charts should be system-generic, and I think all
sorts of dice should be used!

Honestly, I love random tables. The bigger the book, the more tables,
the better. There is nothing new under the sun, but I don't think you
can ever have enough tables. Perhaps a few intro pieces on when to
use tables in your games, or advice or introducing random elements
into your games?

So, it would seem like we have some things to discuss! There are a
numbers of ways to do things: Fund it via Patronage or Kickstarter,
simply do the book then put it up on RPGNow and lulu.com, or perhaps
there's another option out there.

Good discussion, all. This thing just might have some legs!

-Zack

[Anthony Laffan]

I'd say creative commons, which I believe gives us a bit more control over it and we can just say "this is open for use, adding to, taking from, etc, just credit the original work when you do" or something. I'm also for not charging for it, aside from to cover hard costs. Mostly as it gets the issue out of the way of who did what and thus gets what. If we have a plain statement people agree to upfront for money though that could also be fine. (i.e. all money goes to the upkeep, maintenance, and other costs for RPGbloggers.com)

Even then, a free release with option to donate could work.

Aside from that, I like Zach's idea for lots of varied tables. I'm sure if people put their heads together we could get tables for everything under the sun and more. Both humorous and serious could work well too.

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[Graham Poole]

Word of warning: this is not a new idea. That in itself is not a bad thing, but brings with it two issues:

1) Ensuring there is no plagiarism. Yeah, we all trust most of our fellow bloggers, but it will need to be someone's job to perform the due diligence checks through all of the existing products that you are aware of, to make sure (to the best of your ability) that nothing has been stolen/copied. This is even more important if you plan to sell this book, rather than release it as a free download.

2) Standing out. There are other random table books out there. Some are great, some not so much. Why is this book unique, and why should I buy it over the other options. The big book of d30 tables that I've seen has a hook, in the d30. "Written by bloggers" isn't a great hook in and of itself.

Have fun, but know what you're facing.

Graham

[Zachary Houghton]

Excellent point on plagiarism, Graham.

Sure, there's nothing really new anymore, but it's new to us, and I
don't think you can ever have enough tables. I know I still go back
to the Hackmaster GM Guide and the original DMG for some tables!

I think Anthony comments on cost/how to use any profit is a good one
(assuming there is any, I suppose). I'm of two minds between splitting
it between helping out the RPGBN and one of the great charities out
there.

We could also ask our artistically-inclined bloggers to contribute, as
well, to get us some interior art/some cover art.

Most importantly, though, once we get a good framework, we can really
have some fun!

-Zack

> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Dan]

Hey all,

 

Just wanted to say that I've been following the discussion, and that Obsidian Portal would be happy to showcase whatever product the RPGBN came up with. We loves us some independant RPG Bloggers!

 

Dan Albright

Content Director

Obsidian Portal

[GOLDtheSeries]

I'd actually love to contribute a fun table or two, and actually have
some illustrator skills I've been hiding that I could bring to the
table, especially if we're talking about just random cool RPG
illustrations.

Exciting!

-David
Creator, GOLD
www.goldtheseries.com

PS: I actually do think there's something significant about a book
like this, simply based upon its roots in the RPG blogger community.
One of the things the web TV community has learned these past couple
of years is that people are more affectionate toward content when they
have a personal connection to the creators of it. Indie musicians have
known this for some time, and I'm sure those of you who run small
indie RPG presses know it as well, but a lot of us are just learning
it. A book of handy, fun tools, written by people who you feel you
know already (a group of people - surely almost every hardcore RPGer
is gonna be a fan of at least one of your blogs) could be really
successful, both as a fundraiser (maybe) and certainly as a community-
builder. Just my HO.

On Jul 22, 11:01 am, Dan <d...@obsidianportal.com> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> Just wanted to say that I've been following the discussion, and that
> Obsidian Portal would be happy to showcase whatever product the RPGBN came
> up with. We loves us some independant RPG Bloggers!
>
> Dan Albright
> Content Director
> Obsidian Portal
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Zachary Houghton

> <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com>wrote:

> > rpgbloggers...@googlegroups.com<rpgbloggers%2Bunsubscribe@googlegr oups.com>
> > .

> > > For more options, visit this group athttp://
> > groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > --
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[A Terrible Idea]

I love the idea. Here's my thoughts:

1 - I'd be happy to contribute a few tables of my own to the cause.
I'd like to call dibs on the "Really Unfortunate Ways To Die" table,
the "Unexpected Surreal Moment" table, and the "Big Table Of
Suspicious Looking But Ultimately Meaningless Things"

2 - Take it and run with it. Get some input (which you're already
doing) and then just go.

3 - I think Creative Commons is a great way to go.

4 - A benefit for RPGBN server costs is cool, as long a I don't have
to do any bookkeeping over it.

I have some other thoughts, all premature at this stage. In summary :
GO GO GO.

[The Tome - Jeff Greiner]

PC Pearls and GM Gems are pretty decent for inspiration. I kept them
handy for a few months in case I needed off the cuff inspiration, but I
don't use them much anymore. Although I used them a lot more than I ever
used the Toolbox that Dave mentioned (which I also have).

I did a review/interview regarding the books, as I recall. It's also
worth noting that both books are published by Goodman Games, but are
written by the Werecabbages.

Here's my look at GM Gems:
http://thetome.podbean.com/2008/02/11/the-tome-ep-44-greer-and-gm-gems/

And here's PC Pearls (it's worth noting that this was from the Summer
2008 contest, so there are many products discussed, but PC Pearls is in
there):
http://thetome.podbean.com/2008/08/14/the-tome-ep-78-2008-summer-contest/

Jeff Greiner
The Tome Host!

The Tome is a D&D Show
http://www.thetomeshow.com

[The Tome - Jeff Greiner]

You guys discuss the other bits and do as you see fit. I have some
thoughts, but really don't care which way you go...so go for it. :-)

As for chapter headings? Here's my quick brainstorm of 10 headings...

1. Stuff Tables (treasure, random junk, etc.)
2. Combat Tables (stuff that could be useful in a fight)
3. Bar Tables (tables about taverns/inns/bars)
4. People Tables (npcs, personalities, hidden secrets, etc.)
5. Building Tables (dungeons, space stations, whatever)
6. Natural Tables (wilderness, out in the middle of know where, camping
sort of stuff)
7. Table Tables (describing tables, chairs, altars, other furniture)
8. Name Tables (people, places, things)
9. Quest Tables (where to go, who to work for, what to do)
10. Animal Tables (pets, animal companions, farm animals, stuff that
growls, hoots, or hisses).

Jeff Greiner
The Tome Host!

The Tome is a D&D Show
http://www.thetomeshow.com

[Anthony Laffan]

Might I also suggest.

11. Random Bits of Bad Luck
12. Random Bits of Good Luck

--
Anthony

http://www.realityrefracted.com
http://www.rpgbloggers.com
http://www.roleplaymedia.net

[Zachary Houghton]

Great, guys! I think the proposed table names some of you are
throwing out sound great!

Here was my brainstorming list (incomplete):

Introduction
Essays
People
Places
Characteristics
Florae & Faunae
City Life
The Wilderness
Encounters
Arms & Equipment
Combat
Arcane Miscellanea
Cruel Twists of Fate

Do we want to work through here (more traffic, and a nice centralized
place for people to find out about it), or spinoff to another group?
My initial idea is just to host discussion here; there’s an
established community, and it can catch the eye of others who may wish
to contribute!

Very encouraging how many folks want to volunteer. I’m thinking of
setting up a submissions page? People can send in their tables, along
with what category it’d be under? What does everyone think? If the
energy for the product is there, I say we go for it!

If we go for the CC license, do we want to do CC Non-Commercial
Attribution, or allow Commercial as well?

I think we probably need to decide on financial model and
determinations first, and get go from there.

[Anthony Laffan]

If we keep it as a PDF only thing, we could probably do a donations thing where people can pay a donation to a fund, which goes to either a charity or to the running of RPGbloggers.com

If we do print, not sure how much harder/weirder it becomes.

A submissions page for tables would be awesome. What do we do for the essays though? Draw lots? Votes?

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[David]

Humorous, wacky, off the wall tables sounds like a fun community-building project. If it's a more serious project, though, I'm not really interested in competing with the companies that I write about.

Again, given the purpose of the project, I'd go with PDF under creative commons. Then if someone later wants to hand some out at a convention they can make some cheap copies.

-----Original message-----

From: Zachary Houghton <mail.r...@gmail.com>
To: rpgbloggers <rpgbl...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 22, 2010 17:07:14 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: OK, How About This? (RPG Blogger Book Project)

Excellent point on plagiarism, Graham.

Sure, there's nothing really new anymore, but it's new to us, and I
don't think you can ever have enough tables. I know I still go back
to the Hackmaster GM Guide and the original DMG for some tables!

I think Anthony comments on cost/how to use any profit is a good one
(assuming there is any, I suppose). I'm of two minds between splitting
it between helping out the RPGBN and one of the great charities out
there.

We could also ask our artistically-inclined bloggers to contribute, as
well, to get us some interior art/some cover art.

Most importantly, though, once we get a good framework, we can really
have some fun!

-Zack

On Jul 22, 12:56 pm, "Graham Poole" wrote:
> Word of warning: this is not a new idea. That in itself is not a bad thing, but brings with it two issues:
>
> 1) Ensuring there is no plagiarism. Yeah, we all trust most of our fellow bloggers, but it will need to be someone's job to perform the due diligence checks through all of the existing products that you are aware of, to make sure (to the best of your ability) that nothing has been stolen/copied. This is even more important if you plan to sell this book, rather than release it as a free download.
>
> 2) Standing out. There are other random table books out there. Some are great, some not so much. Why is this book unique, and why should I buy it over the other options. The big book of d30 tables that I've seen has a hook, in the d30. "Written by bloggers" isn't a great hook in and of itself.
>
> Have fun, but know what you're facing.
>
> Graham
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Zachary Houghton
>

> Sender: rpgbl...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 09:35:04
> To: rpgbloggers

[Cheri Arbuckle]

Count me in on this. I've got all those "Beyond Fred" posts which are all name tables. I'd be happy to donate any or all of them for this project and I'm sure I can come up with something else fun.

I'm definitely for having the proceeds go to a charity or do defray the RPG Bloggers costs. And I'm echoing the thought of doing it as a PDF. The logistics of printing a hard copy book from a community effort would be quite complex.

I think having the discussion here is good, but we should probably have a page somewhere with at least a list of who's doing what table(s), plus deadlines and where to submit finished tables to for compilation and PDF creation. I'm not the best illustrator in the world, but I have desktop publishing experience and I'd be more than willing to create the actual PDF itself. I've got InDesign and I'm pretty familiar with it by this point.

Cheri "Jade" Arbuckle
Evil Machinations: http://www.rpggm.com/blog/

[Brian Fitzpatrick]

I can throw my hat in for a table of random fates and perhaps a "what
the??" table about environmental touches for a game...

And I'd be happy to volunteer to edit the doc. I used to be a tech
writer and still do a fair amount of writing/editing.

--Fitz

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[Will Hopkins]

I'd love to work on Arcane Miscellanea, and possibly a "Things man was not meant to know!" table.  All of the stuff put forward so far seems to be fantasy-centric (which is totally fine), but is there interest in non-fantasy stuff too?

As for the CC license, I think allowing for commercial use would make it more appealing to some people who might want to adapt pieces of it for their own products.  A lot of us rely on adapting the work of others (the whole point of a CC license) and allowing commercial uses would probably garner the most potential purchasers.

I am also happy to volunteer as a copyeditor (one of my current jobs).

Will

[Anthony Laffan]

I'd be fine with people using it commercially, but it'd be good if the original work got credit somewhere (even if just on a credits page).

My intent was to do some modern and sci-fi things as well if possible. Not just doing fantasy. Was even going to ask about doing sections, i.e. "Fantasy" section "Modern" Section and so on.

[A Terrible Idea]

If it were released using the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0
Unported License, anyone would be free to use, reproduce or modify the
work, provided they gave proper attribution for their source
material.

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0

It's the same one Jeff Preston and I are using in the 60 Terrible
Character Portraits Project (http://kck.st/dogX5W)

-D

On Jul 22, 12:12 pm, Anthony Laffan <delirium....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If we keep it as a PDF only thing, we could probably do a donations thing
> where people can pay a donation to a fund, which goes to either a charity or
> to the running of RPGbloggers.com
>
> If we do print, not sure how much harder/weirder it becomes.
>
> A submissions page for tables would be awesome. What do we do for the essays
> though? Draw lots? Votes?
>

> > rpgbloggers...@googlegroups.com<rpgbloggers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[GOLDtheSeries]

Categorization is always a bear (I'm an information architect in my
day job - believe me, it's often a nightmare, especially in print).
Simple, descriptive categories based on use are almost always your
best bet. I really like the categorizations that have been floated,
rather than grouping them by type of game (fantasy, modern, etc.) - a
creative GM can often make random tables apply to many kinds of
games.

Maybe, though, because some tables have very specific context, it's
worth graphically "tagging" each table for easy reference. Perhaps a
row of icons stacked next to the right margin for each title
identifying some specific attributes of the table. Things like:

a dragon (Fantasy)
a rocket (sci-fi)
a smiley-face (humorous)
a d20 with a line through it (diceless)
etc.

This way, a quick glance as you flip through the pages tells you a lot
about each table.

Just spitballing, of course.

-David

[Zachary Houghton]

I love the idea of the idea of visual aids to tell which categories
the table might fall in. Oh, and an index. For the love of heaven, a
good index.

And yes, the more genres the better! Supers, horror, fantasy, sci-fi--
bring it all!

I'm thinking the basic CC Attribution license, and a primarily pdf
product (with a POD option at lulu?)

Great input guys (and gals)!

Dare I ask--how about a working title?

[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

I just can't for the life of me come up with a witty enough name so I'm going to keep my mouth shut on that one.

But I would like to weight in on some of the points raised so far.

1) I love visual icons to help organize the book.
2) I may have missed this somewhere but it sounds like we've got one person willing to do copyedit work on this. I'd be willing to go over some of it as well, but this sounds like a massive project we are lining up for ourselves. Who else is interested in helping out with that, even if its just to check out one or two sections?
3) I know we've talked about this a little bit but, do we want to keep this thing systemless and without statistics, or do we want to dabble with some of the systems that are relatively free to work with (For instance, sample encounters for Pathfinder, or sample villains for Spirit of the Century)?

[TookyG]

There is going to have to be some form of project director, someone to
keep things on task. Otherwise I fear that table creep and loss of
focus will bog the project down.

[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

I agree TookyG, but the good thing about this being such a minimal investment project (monetarily at least) is that we can always continue to put out new product if we want to. Either along the lines of additional Tables or other ideas. So as long as we keep that in mind, Table Creep shouldn't be such an issue.

Does anyone hear have any experience with managerial tasks or community organizing? What does everyone think about a project director?

--

[Zachary Houghton]

I don't, but I'd love to be involved as much as possible.

That is an excellent question, though. I have the drive, but not all
the know-how. An advisor would be good...

> > rpgbloggers...@googlegroups.com<rpgbloggers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> > .

[Anthony Laffan]

I likewise have no experience, but if another set of hands is needed I'd be happy to help out. 

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Zachary Houghton <mail.r...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't, but I'd love to be involved as much as possible.

That is an excellent question, though. I have the drive, but not all

the know-how. IAn advisor would be good...

On Jul 22, 7:33 pm, Amadeo Bloodtalon <ama...@darkness.com> wrote:
> I agree TookyG, but the good thing about this being such a minimal
> investment project (monetarily at least) is that we can always continue to
> put out new product if we want to. Either along the lines of additional
> Tables or other ideas. So as long as we keep that in mind, Table Creep
> shouldn't be such an issue.
>
> Does anyone hear have any experience with managerial tasks or community
> organizing? What does everyone think about a project director?
>

> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 7:09 PM, TookyG <too...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > There is going to have to be some form of project director, someone to
> > keep things on task.  Otherwise I fear that table creep and loss of
> > focus will bog the project down.
>
> > --
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> >http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.

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[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

*sighs* I have the same problem, I'm got some experience with community organizing, but not enough to lead a project. If no one has that kind of experience, or that kind of time then I guess we could choose a small group of people and split up tasks between them.

[Stuart Broz]

I'm pretty sure the table of contents needs to be a table you can roll on.

I'm also happy to help.

I am a project manager during the day, so I have the ability to take a leadership role here. I am reluctant to volunteer myself for anything without knowing what the time frame for the project is, though. Any ideas as to when an ideal publication date would be?

Stuart

http://neitherworldstories.blogspot.com

[Zachary Houghton]

Stuart: I don't think we're under a timetable here, but if you're
volunteering to help, by all means, let's talk about publication dates
and such. I would think an open submission period would be first, of
course after we determine charity, editing help, layout help, etc...

[Zachary Houghton]

Also, what's a good site for a submissions template we can use?

On Jul 22, 10:42 pm, Stuart Broz <zorbtra...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Graham Poole]

Tip from experience: set a timetable. Geek projects tend to go on forever and never produce much without one.

The Open Game Table did better than many such projects, and I believe this is partly due to having a timetable, and having someone in charge.

Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Zachary Houghton <mail.r...@gmail.com>
Sender: rpgbl...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:55:42
To: rpgbloggers<rpgbl...@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: rpgbl...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: OK, How About This? (RPG Blogger Book Project)

[Stuart Broz]

Graham: Definitely. That's why it was my first question.

We're working with a very diverse community here. I think a good way of handling submissions would be in two phases:

1) An open submissions phase, which would be something of a free-for-all. We could then perform a review and categorization of what has been submitted... and identify gaps that need to be filled.

2) A targeted submissions phase where we accept tables to fill identified gaps.

I actually think that working from the submissions would be better than starting off with chapter titles. The suggested chapters are great prompts and brainstorming tools, but I suspect that the submissions we receive will be far from distributed equally between them.

As far as essays go... maybe we can coordinate with the RPG Blog Carnival and have a carnival on tables? Then we could choose some/all of the participants in that to have their entries included in the book (assuming they wanted them to be).

I think people who are interested in helping out on particular aspects here (other than submitting content) should go ahead and raise their hands.

-Stuart

[Ben McFarland]

On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Graham Poole <ve4...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tip from experience: set a timetable. Geek projects tend to go on forever and never produce much without one.

The Open Game Table did better than many such projects, and I believe this is partly due to having a timetable, and having someone in charge.

A benevolent dictator (Design Lead) is essential to such projects. It's basically a variant of what is done at Open Design and what was done for OGT, both Volumes 1 and 2.

Personally, I think the biggest stumbling block comes from wanting to do a quality layout of the final manuscript-- but you're a long way from there and that's the Lead's problem. :) Glory in the brainstorming and let the Layout Victim suffer the pure hatred of a recalcitrant manuscript.

-Ben.
--
Ben McFarland
Progressio sine timore aut praejudicia.

[Anthony Laffan]

I'm interested in helping out as I can. Though I don't know what exactly I can do aside from content. No experience and all that jazz.

Perhaps a month or two from a set date for open submissions? Then the lead can decide a time table for the closed submissions as we fill gaps and go from there? It may be unreasonable, but just going on the idea of striking while the idea is fresh and people are enthusiastic about it.

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[Jeffrey Uurtamo]

I think all of the above suggestions are good ones. While, I have no
experience with managing a print project, I do have some with software
development as well as trying to manage the RPG Circus podcast, which
involves people form several different locations and time zones. I
guess what I'm saying that if no one else is willing to take the PM
role on this project, then I would be more than happy to do that job.

The first thing of course is decide when the schedule will be
released. I suggest that we release a schedule by the end of next week
on July 30th. That should give us enough time to come up with a
workable schedule. Of course one thing to note is that since GenCon
2010 is less than two weeks away, I would not expect any milestones to
be reached until after GenCon.

Jeff Uurtamo

[Zachary Houghton]

Excellent points, guys.

Let's look at working in the next week here to get a basic schedule of
events and decide on the basics of format/license/etc.

-Zachary

[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

Well, a quick question. I know there has been some discussion on this already, but I think it would be good to have a definitive answer. We are planning on keeping this thing systemless right?

--

[Jeffrey Uurtamo]

As far as I can remember through the tread, we are going to try to
keep is fairly systemless. There may some exceptions depending.

[Zachary Houghton]

I would think as systemless as possible would be good. Generic
descriptors (+1 increment to relevant strength stat) may be
appropriate.

-Zack

On Jul 23, 11:24 pm, Jeffrey Uurtamo <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
> As far as I can remember through the tread, we are going to try to
> keep is fairly systemless. There may some exceptions depending.
>
> On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Amadeo Bloodtalon <ama...@darkness.com> wrote:
> > Well, a quick question. I know there has been some discussion on this
> > already, but I think it would be good to have a definitive answer. We are
> > planning on keeping this thing systemless right?
>

> > On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Zachary Houghton <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com>

[Spenser]

This sounds like an awesome project, I've got a couple tables I can
contribute. I don't have any project management experience, but, after
we have all the initial submissions, I'd love to be on the team that
fills in the gaps.

[Stuart Broz]

It might be good to set some general language that people can use that will be system-neutral, yet mean the same thing across the collected tables.

-Stuart

[Anthony Laffan]

Stuff like that can easily be done once the tables are had and we do editing though. Might be best to just let people create once we get going on things, and then we can revise back when we know what we have.

[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

Ok, so what does everyone feel about this. For three weeks after Gen Con there is an open submission period, after which a team goes through those submissions for about two weeks and creates some categories and identifies areas that need additional material and those that don't. Then there is a small one to two week focused Submission for each category (lets say there are six, for example). After all is said and done there another group will go through and start the editing phase, which will last for a week and a half. After that a group or individual will begin working on layout...and I really don't know how long that will take. Also at some point we should probably have an art director start fishing around with artists to see if anyone is interested in working on this project.

So in list form that is:

1) Open Submission--3 weeks
2) Review of Open Submission--2 weeks
3) ~Six or so Focused Submissions--1-2 weeks each
4) Editing phase--1 1/2 weeks
5) Art and Layout Phases--? weeks

[Zachary Houghton]

That's not a bad initial suggestion. Perhaps some of our other
individuals with some project management can submit their thoughts as
well, and see if that general outline would work!

-Zack

On Jul 25, 5:05 am, Amadeo Bloodtalon <ama...@darkness.com> wrote:
> Ok, so what does everyone feel about this. For three weeks after Gen Con
> there is an open submission period, after which a team goes through those
> submissions for about two weeks and creates some categories and identifies
> areas that need additional material and those that don't. Then there is a
> small one to two week focused Submission for each category (lets say there
> are six, for example). After all is said and done there another group will
> go through and start the editing phase, which will last for a week and a
> half. After that a group or individual will begin working on layout...and I
> really don't know how long that will take. Also at some point we should
> probably have an art director start fishing around with artists to see if
> anyone is interested in working on this project.
>
> So in list form that is:
>
> 1) Open Submission--3 weeks
> 2) Review of Open Submission--2 weeks
> 3) ~Six or so Focused Submissions--1-2 weeks each
> 4) Editing phase--1 1/2 weeks
> 5) Art and Layout Phases--? weeks
>

> On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Anthony Laffan <delirium....@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Stuff like that can easily be done once the tables are had and we do
> > editing though. Might be best to just let people create once we get going on
> > things, and then we can revise back when we know what we have.
>

> > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 1:29 AM, Stuart Broz <zorbtra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> It might be good to set some general language that people can use that
> >> will be system-neutral, yet mean the same thing across the collected tables.
>
> >> -Stuart
>

> >> On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 1:18 AM, Zachary Houghton <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com

> >>> > >> rpgbloggers...@googlegroups.com<rpgbloggers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
> >>> .

> >>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
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> > --
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> >http://www.realityrefracted.com
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>
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[Stuart Broz]

Gen Con is a huge factor here - mostly because it is dominating people's consciousness until it is over. Messaging is important here, and we need to leave some time for it. I'd suggest expanding the initial submission time to account for that.

We also need to develop and settle upon submission guidelines. We really need to have this well defined before we start collection. We also need to decide upon guidelines for... well... making decisions.

Timeline-wise we have an issue in that we're not shooting for a specific number of tables - rather we're going for 'as many as possible.' The upshot of this is that editorial review, editing, and layout time are going to be very hard to predict... particularly without good numbers for the number of people we have at our disposal to help out there (and how much time they can put in).

On the flip side, we also don't have a firm deadline. This gives us the ability to be really agile about how we go about the process and meet the demands of the material we receive with the resources we have.

What I'd suggest for a timeline: 

Aug 25: Today

Aug 27 (Tues): Let's agree on a decision-making method to move forward. Consensus on the list is slow and vague. This week, we should also choose the leadership team - at the very least we need a Project Manager/Editor and an Art Director. Having a Communications/PR manager (who could mobilize calls for submissions and such) would also be great. Having an Art Director in at the beginning is going to be a good idea for decision-making purposes.

Aug 3 (Tues): Set submission guidelines.

August 4: Soft call for submissions (get people thinking about it, but Gen Con is going to overwhelm people's awareness)

August 5-8 Gen Con

August 9: Call for submissions - Submission period begins

August 16: Begin 'special session' RPG Blog Carnival on Tables (or otherwise open submissions for essays)

September 5 (Sunday): Submission period ends. Final call for editorial/layout assistance.

Sept 6: Labor Day

Initial review/classification of submissions can occur as they are received.

Sept 13 (Monday): Complete initial review of submissions - At this point we should have built a classification scheme and identified gaps. We should also be in a position to work out our needs/resources for editing and layout realistically. This week, we should put out calls for targeted submissions. I don't see a compelling reason not to put them all out at once, but I could be convinced otherwise. Editing of initial submissions can be concurrent with the submission of targeted submission.

Stuart

[Zachary Houghton]

Excellent. Let's say we do a call for volunteers now, to get some
firm answers on who's doing what:

Project Director:
Editor:
Assistant Editor:
Submissions Coordinator:
Layout/Art Director (right?):

I will happily put myself forward as submissions coordinator. I can
work closely with our editor on that, and work to make sure we get a
proper confirmation/contact information/release from all parties
submitting. I will work on this this week, if we're cool (which leads
into the idea of consensus/decision making).

I have to tell you guys, I am very excited about this. I think we have
a lot of community talent that’s going to get a chance to shine here!

I understand a lot of us (me included!) are trying to get ready for
Gen Con this week, as Stuart mentioned, but let’s try to keep things
moving if we can.

-Zachary

> > On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Anthony Laffan <delirium....@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Stuff like that can easily be done once the tables are had and we do
> >> editing though. Might be best to just let people create once we get going on
> >> things, and then we can revise back when we know what we have.
>

> >>>> > >> rpgbloggers...@googlegroups.com<rpgbloggers%2Bunsubscribe@googlegr­oups.com>
> >>>> .

> >>>> > >> For more options, visit this group at
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> >> --
> >> Anthony
> >>http://www.realityrefracted.com
> >>http://www.rpgbloggers.com
> >>http://www.roleplaymedia.net
>
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> >http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Zachary Houghton]

OK, now how about the charity/cause of the book? We've had it put
forward to donate any proceeds to keeping RPG Bloggers running.
There's also, if I can submit, the 501 non-profit Gamers For Humanity,
which does some neat things:

http://www.gamersforhumanity.org/

Might be appropriate. Thoughts?

> > >http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

[Anthony Laffan]

I'd be fine with either or, though I think at least something should go to rpgbloggers.com

As far as the jobs, I'd love to throw my hat in but I have no experience in any of those, so a better person would probably be easily found. Happy to help if it is needed somewhere though.

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[Brian Fitzpatrick]

I'd be happy to throw in my hat as an editor or assistant editor. I
haven't managed any large projects like this before, but have plenty
of experience editing in large computer documentation projects.

We'd need to settle on a style guide of sorts (doesn't need to be much
probably), but a better idea would be how to focus on the generic
system aspects - how to refer to stats, skills, monsters, etc...

--Fitz

--
Brian Fitzpatrick (aka "Fitz")
Lair of the Green Knight (Blog) - http://writer.fitzhome.com
Moebius Adventures Games (Blog) - http://blog.moebiusadventures.com
BlogCritics.org - http://blogcritics.org/writers/fitz/

[Stuart Broz]

These sound reasonable. We probably want to add a Business Director to handle sales and any profits. I think it would be wise to lay out the responsibilities of each position. I'd write up some stuff, but wouldn't be able to get to it until this evening. Anyone want to take a stab at it in the meantime?

Stuart

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[Stuart Broz]

Oh... and I'll throw my name in for Project Director.

Stuart

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[Zachary Houghton]

I probably can't get a writeup in any sooner than that.


As far as a style guide, perhaps that's something to be agreed upon
with the Editors, Proj. Director, and Submissions Coordinator? That
way, I request submissions in the format that will best serve the
project.

On Jul 26, 1:02 pm, Stuart Broz <zorbtra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh... and I'll throw my name in for Project Director.
>
> Stuart
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Zachary Houghton

> <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com>wrote:

> > <rpgbloggers%2Bunsubscribe@googlegr­oups.com>
> > > >>> .
> > > >>> For more options, visit this group at
> > > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.
>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Anthony
> > > >>http://www.realityrefracted.com
> > > >>http://www.rpgbloggers.com
> > > >>http://www.roleplaymedia.net
>
> > > >>  --
> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups
> > > >> "rpgbloggers" group.
> > > >> To post to this group, send email to rpgbl...@googlegroups.com.
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> > <rpgbloggers%2Bunsubscribe@googlegr­oups.com>
> > > >> .
> > > >> For more options, visit this group at
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> > > > To unsubscribe from this
>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[Will Hopkins]

I'll toss my name in as Assistant Editor.  I currently work as a copy editor and writer, but have neither the experience nor the time to step up higher than Assistant.

Will

[Jeffrey Uurtamo]

I'd be more than happy to do any of the jobs, although I don't think I
have the art skill for Layout/Art Director. In general, I think we
need to remember that while there will be a lot of work behind the
scenes to be done, this should still be a fun job for all those
involved.

[Amadeo Bloodtalon]

I'm happy to help with editing, but I most certainly don't have the experience to be The Editor. I can do some copyediting work though, and would be happy to assist in that way.

[Michael Wolf]

Hi!

I have been quiet for some time, since I am still in the middle of working on my game Warrior, Rogue & Mage. But as soon as this is done, I can do some layout work if needed.

Michael Wolf

[Zachary Houghton]

Sounds great, guys!

I would think a couple of at-large guys wouldn't be a bad idea,
either.

On Jul 26, 4:52 pm, Michael Wolf <ezekiel.starga...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have been quiet for some time, since I am still in the middle of working
> on my game Warrior, Rogue & Mage. But as soon as this is done, I can do some
> layout work if needed.
>
> Michael Wolf
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 22:48, Amadeo Bloodtalon <ama...@darkness.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > I'm happy to help with editing, but I most certainly don't have the
> > experience to be The Editor. I can do some copyediting work though, and
> > would be happy to assist in that way.
>
> > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Jeffrey Uurtamo <kd7...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> I'd be more than happy to do any of the jobs, although I don't think I
> >> have the art skill for Layout/Art Director. In general, I think we
> >> need to remember that while there will be a lot of work behind the
> >> scenes to be done, this should still be a fun job for all those
> >> involved.
>

> >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Will Hopkins <balro...@gmail.com>

> >> wrote:
> >> > I'll toss my name in as Assistant Editor.  I currently work as a copy
> >> editor
> >> > and writer, but have neither the experience nor the time to step up
> >> higher
> >> > than Assistant.
> >> > Will
>

> >> > On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Stuart Broz <zorbtra...@gmail.com>

> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -

[A Terrible Idea]

There has been some talk about donating some proceeds from the book
toward hosting costs for rpgbloggers.com. On reflection, I'd rather
you select a worthy charity and donate any proceeds to them. I
appreciate the spirit of wanting to help with hosting costs, but I'd
prefer you use the project to raise funds for a better cause. It's
not that I'm opposed to people kicking in for hosting, I'd just rather
rpgbloggers.com not be the focal point of a benefit, especially an all
volunteer one.

If anyone feels compelled to directly help with hosting costs you can
use this link - http://www.dreamhost.com/donate.cgi?id=12806

On Jul 22, 12:12 pm, Anthony Laffan <delirium....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If we keep it as a PDF only thing, we could probably do a donations thing
> where people can pay a donation to a fund, which goes to either a charity or
> to the running of RPGbloggers.com
>
> If we do print, not sure how much harder/weirder it becomes.
>
> A submissions page for tables would be awesome. What do we do for the essays
> though? Draw lots? Votes?
>
> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Zachary Houghton <mail.rpgb...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Great, guys!  I think the proposed table names some of you are
> > throwing out sound great!
>
> > Here was my brainstorming list (incomplete):
>
> > Introduction
> > Essays
> > People
> > Places
> > Characteristics
> > Florae & Faunae
> > City Life
> > The Wilderness
> > Encounters
> > Arms & Equipment
> > Combat
> > Arcane Miscellanea
> > Cruel Twists of Fate
>
> > Do we want to work through here (more traffic, and a nice centralized
> > place for people to find out about it), or spinoff to another group?
> > My initial idea is just to host discussion here; there’s an
> > established community, and it can catch the eye of others who may wish
> > to contribute!
>
> > Very encouraging how many folks want to volunteer.  I’m thinking of
> > setting up a submissions page?  People can send in their tables, along
> > with what category it’d be under?  What does everyone think?  If the
> > energy for the product is there, I say we go for it!
>
> > If we go for the CC license, do we want to do CC Non-Commercial
> > Attribution, or allow Commercial as well?
>
> > I think we probably need to decide on financial model and
> > determinations first, and get go from there.

>
> > --
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> Anthonyhttp://www.realityrefracted.comhttp://www.rpgbloggers.comhttp://www.roleplaymedia.net

[Ben McFarland]

If you're looking at doing a volunteer effort for charity, I'd suggest that you might try pinging Sean K. Reynolds, as he's done a number of charity books over time and might have some good ideas to help with the project. Someone going to Gencon would probably want to try talking to him, if only to pick his brain for things to know or avoid.

(So you know, I don't know him, but I know he's done several charity books.)

[Zachary Houghton]

Excellent!

I'll be at Gen Con. I can try to bend Sean's ear for a minute. I've
also done a couple of charity drivers or been involved over the years,
so I'm hoping I'll be able to help on that front as well.

Thanks for the direction, ATI. I'm sure we'll find an excellent
charity.

-Zack

[Stuart Broz]

OK - in terms of people stepping up, we have:

Stuart Broz - Project Director

Zachary Houghton - Submissions Coordinator

Brian Fitzpatrick - Editor

Will Hopkins - Assistant Editor

...and several people who have bravely stepped up to help out with copyediting and other tasks:

Jeffery Uurtamo (anything but Art Director?)

Michael Wolf (layout)

Amadeo Bloodtalon (copyediting)

Anthony Laffan

Spenser

David (illustration)

Cheri Arbuckle (layout)

We still need an Art Director - Michael, David, or Cheri? Any of you interested?

We also need a Business Director, I think. Jeffrey? 

Anyone else?

-Stuart

[Mark Meredith]

I've got an idea for something we RPG Bloggers can do:
What if we each put $10-30 worth of product together to assemble the
ultimate gaming package, then had people each put in a buck or two to
raffle it all off? The proceeds from the raffle would go to a charity
we all chose which would be appropriate.

Items donated could include: dice, dungeon tiles, books, battlemats,
scenery, etc.

Anyone want to join me in this? I think we could raise a lot of money
for a good cause.

[Jake Fitch]

Hate to be "that guy", but I think in most States you need a permit to do a raffle.  I would also have concerns over shipping.

Great idea though.

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[Mark Meredith]

We could call it a "Contest" instead.

[Graham Poole]

Unfortunately, naming doesn't get around it. If people pay money for a chance to win, it's a lottery, and you need a license.

There are ways around it, such as contests of skill, or "suggested donations". But it's tricky legal ground.

Get someone who knows the terrain before you go ahead.

Graham

---

From: Mark Meredith <tincanro...@gmail.com>

Sender: rpgbl...@googlegroups.com

Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:51:03 -0500

To: <rpgbl...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: rpgbl...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: Possible Charity Raffle?

[A Terrible Idea]

I would like to see a collaborative charity drive of some kind among
the members, but I don't think this is the best way to do it. I have
some ideas in mind, but nothing that's taken a solid form yet. And
right now I have other priorities on deck.

On Jul 28, 9:51 am, Mark Meredith <tincanrockets...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We could call it a "Contest" instead.
>

> On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 8:59 AM, Jake Fitch <milam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hate to be "that guy", but I think in most States you need a permit to do a
> > raffle.  I would also have concerns over shipping.
>
> > Great idea though.
>

> > On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Mark Meredith <tincanrockets...@gmail.com

> > > wrote:
>
> >> I've got an idea for something we RPG Bloggers can do:
> >> What if we each put $10-30 worth of product together to assemble the
> >> ultimate gaming package, then had people each put in a buck or two to raffle
> >> it all off? The proceeds from the raffle would go to a charity we all chose
> >> which would be appropriate.
>
> >> Items donated could include: dice, dungeon tiles, books, battlemats,
> >> scenery, etc.
>
> >> Anyone want to join me in this? I think we could raise a lot of money for
> >> a good cause.
>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "rpgbloggers" group.
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> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

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> >> For more options, visit this group at
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/rpgbloggers?hl=en.
>
> >  --
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[Zachary Houghton]

I checked for Indiana at least, and you need a license of some sort.
That sucks, because it's a fun idea.

[Cheri Arbuckle]

Sorry about the late response. The last couple of weeks have been really tough.

I'm more than happy to do typesetting and layout. I've never worked as an art director, but I was a costume designer so I've got some idea on how to coordinate a project. If no one else more experienced than I is able to take the job, then I'll do it.

Cheri "Jade" Arbuckle

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[syca...@gmail.com]

/lurk

Sorry to barge in the middle of the discussion. I cannot help with this project, but I think it is great. I love random tables of stuff (although the recent postings about random facial hair...)

I saw this at lifehacker and thought it might help with brainstorming session. It allows real-time collaboration of lists.

http://lifehacker.com/5608479/thingler-creates-real+time-collaborative-to+do-lists (explanation)
http://thingler.com (actual site)

Anyway, good luck on the project.

John

[Zachary Houghton]

OK, getting back from Gen Con and settled. I will work on the
submission form this week, and post if for your review.

-Zack

On Aug 9, 5:55 pm, sycar...@gmail.com wrote:
> /lurk
>
> Sorry to barge in the middle of the discussion. I cannot help with this  
> project, but I think it is great. I love random tables of stuff (although  
> the recent postings about random facial hair...)
>
> I saw this at lifehacker and thought it might help with brainstorming  
> session. It allows real-time collaboration of lists.
>

> http://lifehacker.com/5608479/thingler-creates-real+time-collaborativ... 
> (explanation)http://thingler.com(actual site)

[MrLich]

Depending on your time frame, I would be willing to contribute to the
art side of things.

This just seems like a really cool project.

> > John- Hide quoted text -