Adding Comments archive section

[Pete B]

FYI just so people aren't surprised...

 

A decision was made at the RocWiki Picnic to start archiving comments from 2006 & earlier on different pages to reduce the length of comments in older pages.

 

I'm putting these archives in /Comments.

[BradM]

I thought I would help out with the Comments Archive step. I did most
of them the same way Pete has been doing but found the process and
result both lacking.

Since this was not presented here in the Group or in RocWiki for
comment or consideration I was not able to provide any feedback prior
to implementation. So here are my two+ cents:

Item 1:

I demonstrated in an example test of the Camille's Sidewalk Cafe page
to change the wording and the linkage on the main page.

http://rocwiki.org/Camille%27s_Sidewalk_Cafe

"ADMIN NOTE: Comments prior to 2008 are now archived on the Comments
Page"

using ["/Comments" Comments Page] for the link.

I think it makes it easier to paste in a sample line without having to
recopy the page name each time. Also the "prior to 2008" takes care of
no 2006, or changing it to a list or 200x -200y for future years.

Item 2.

I would suggest removing the term ADMIN NOTE - it seems to imply that
there is an administrative function, purpose, restriction, or other
reason for the action. More appropriate phrase might be something
like:

"SEE Comments Archive for dates prior to YYYY"

using ["/Comments" Comments Archive"]

Item 3:

Using a color-coded, graphic enhanced line:

I would also like to recommend a change to a color highlighted table
with a graphic, such as the imlplementation of Stub, etc -

I will make some tests later in my own area so I am not accused of
neglecting the community.. The ["/Comments"] won't work inside an
INCLUDE, so I will come up with something else and report back here
for feedback.

Item 4.

Suggest also the wording at the top of the archive be slightly
modified (maybe as to when the archive was taken for example, Again, I
will propose something in a subsequent post.

Brad

[Pete B]

Whay about the process "doing but found the process and result both lacking" .....sorry but what's lacking?

 

I created a Comments page and put the comments there.

 

I'm sorry but this seems to be making it more difficult then it really needs to be....

 

Pete

[BradM]

PETE:

I made my case in my message, to which you did not comment.

Since there will be, eventually, several hundred archiving operations,
I shall choose not to type or cut and paste the page name but use my
suggested ["/Comments Comments Archive] form.

Since ADMIN may be meaningless or confusing to many viewers, I will
choose not to use the term.

Since color coding is used already in RocWiki - (example Stub) and
helps identify a special condition, I will choose to use a color coded
line with the color standard of Stub and others.

The current technology world prefers iconic interfaces, but I have not
time to argue this point with you so I won't waste anymore of my time
creating a graphic.

I prefer a modified topic sentence for the Comments Archive page to
include the date of the archive.

I have made the above changes to Champps and will continue to use this
form until directed to do otherwise.

Brad

On Jul 15, 6:54 pm, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whay about the process "doing but found the process and result both lacking"
> .....sorry but what's lacking?
>
> I created a Comments page and put the comments there.
>
> I'm sorry but this seems to be making it more difficult then it really needs
> to be....
>
> Pete
>

[Pete B]

I'm sorry but I think the yellow is tacky and sticks out like a sore thumb....

[Pete B]

Brad,

 

1) Any idea why when creation of the Comments pages isn't saving in the Recent Changes list suddenly?? I have to go through each individual restaurant to see if it's been done now. Would like to make it a tad more efficient.

 

2) The yellow is really tacky and comes out as a huge block pushing further comments down the page. How about just removing the yellow and just bolding the statement???

Please reply on this...

[BradM]

1. I don't know what you are talking about ! However, I am going
through methodically - first, Chain Restaurants alphabetically, doing
additional cleanup for logos, organization, etc.as I go.
2. a. I changed all of the entries last night to the standard color
(non-tacky) used at the top of Recent Changes, Stub, etc. 'FFFFAA'
which I meant to do originally, but accidently pasted an error line of
FFFF80 into everything.
2 b. I had inadvertently used an HR on a few entries copying what you
did. This made them bigger taller. I fixed all of those this morning.
The current spacing is not caused by the color, but use of a table and
by the indent. This spacing "problem" is intentional as it, like the
color, makes the entry stand out - which I consider important for the
non-editing occasional viewers of the wiki.

On Jul 16, 10:50 pm, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> 1) Any idea why when creation of the Comments pages isn't saving in the
> Recent Changes list suddenly?? I have to go through each individual
> restaurant to see if it's been done now. Would like to make it a tad more
> efficient.
>
> 2) The yellow is really tacky and comes out as a huge block pushing further
> comments down the page. How about just removing the yellow and just bolding
> the statement???
> Please reply on this...
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm sorry but I think the yellow is tacky and sticks out like a sore
> > thumb....
>

[BradM]

Having considered the task further, I make the following additional
observations.

1. What was the actual decision regarding when material should be
archived to another page. The message here says 2006 & earlier and
some of Pete B's changes correspond. However, other changes have 2007
and 2006 (hence I started doing it for Prior To 2008). RocWiki should
have a specific policy regarding the archiving - I can envision some
restaurant chafing at the bit waiting for their bad comments to go to
archive. Or alternatively, someone not wanting the really good ones to
go off to archive !!!! See 4., below for related suggestion.

2. Additional caution must be taken on pages where a Talk page is used
for the comments to protect the length, integrity, or INCLUDE nature
of the original page. In fact,
a. I have not made any tests, but do subordinate pages (other than
Talk) get renamed when a base page is renamed?????
b. There are some pages, such as Wild Noodles where someone switched
to Talk because of too many comments. Should we take such pages back
to Comments sections once the archiving is done???

3. Perhaps the page name for the archived info should be /Archive
instead of /Comments. I suggest this for two reasons:
a. RocWiki has a Comments macro and usage tends to refer to the
bottom section as the Comments section - so maybe better to use a
separate term rather than raise possible ambiguity. NOTE - I
volunteer to do any renaming of completed pages if the group decides
to change it before we do too much more.
b. Rocwiki may benefit from also moving Reviews or other data that
is historical and would be better on the Archive page than leaving it
on the main page or just deleting it and expecting viewers to know
enough to track through Revisions to peek at past info.

4.. Suggest we consider placing some wiki link in the archive page so
that it will be easy to find all the archive pages. The wiki link
could be to a definition page for the Archive process. For example:
"... this ["Archive Page"] ...
The contents of the linked Archive Page would contain the
definition, policy, and any procedures for page archives. Also on that
page or a related page we could use the LinksHere(Archive Page) to
produce and automatic list of all pages with archives.

Brad

On Jun 30, 7:14 pm, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:

[BradM]

OOOOPS - see my Test Page/Comments - it still exists but Test Page is
now Test Page Renamed - so it seems we have another problem to deal
with.

Brad

[Pete B]

A couple things in reply..

 

1) Tradition has been that we don't want additional policies--this has been requested over and over again by users AND in Wiki Meetings. We don't want to become a policy-driven beast.

As to your example regarding restaurants--we've already had that and we address it with simple diplomacy. In 2 cases I've met the restaurant owners and worked it out--in one case they attended a monthly meeting and we worked it out.

 

2) Reviews --IMHO--should stay on the Front Page IF they're current (within 2 years)---otherwise can be archived if not

[Pete B]

I have modified my archving statement so it is clear it is for archiving purposes only...I will continue to use the statement.

[BradM]

Pete,

I don't want to beat a dead-horse, but you keep after me about
community decision-making.

I just uploaded a graphic comparing what you objected to and your
latest version of comment archiving.

You will note that your version now takes up more space than the one
you complained was too big.

Further, it continues to imply that it is an ADMIN function, as if
other editors should not be doing this or that there was some problem.
As to the text: normally, "due to" implies cause and effect.and
passive voice rings the editors bell.

I think my recommended solution still meets the goal of drawing the
attention of the viewers and giving them all the information they need
in a very concise form. I rest my case and shall not engage further on
this matter.

On Jul 23, 6:32 pm, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have modified my archving statement so it is clear it is for archiving
> purposes only...I will continue to use the statement.
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 9:11 PM, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > A couple things in reply..
>
> > 1) Tradition has been that we don't want additional policies--this has been
> > requested over and over again by users AND in Wiki Meetings. We don't want
> > to become a policy-driven beast.
> > As to your example regarding restaurants--we've already had that and we
> > address it with simple diplomacy. In 2 cases I've met the restaurant owners
> > and worked it out--in one case they attended a monthly meeting and we worked
> > it out.
>
> > 2) Reviews --IMHO--should stay on the Front Page IF they're current (within
> > 2 years)---otherwise can be archived if not

[Ryan Tucker]

How about:

------
[http://rocwiki.org/Wiki_Settings/Images?sendfile=true&file=talkicon.png] ''Comments more than two years old have been archived at ["Pagename/Comments"]''

Less bold and more soothing, more matter-of-fact, and it includes the
little talk-bubble icon to set it out a bit.

Whatever text is decided on, I can turn it into a macro so all one would
need to put is:

[[archived]]

Or something like:

[[archived|2007]] to have it say "Comments from 2007 and earlier have
been archived at..."

-rt

> --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
> For options, view full headers. See also http://groups.google.com/group/rochesterwiki
> -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
>

--
Ryan Tucker <rtu...@gmail.com>

[BradM]

Thanks Ryan.

I put samples and more detail on my recommendations on :

http://rocwiki.org/Wiki_Sand_Box

I don't mean to be argumentative or A... Retentive about these design
and user interface issues, but this is what I have done most of my
adult life and for which my clients pay me the big bucks (:>)

Brad

> Ryan Tucker <rtuc...@gmail.com>
>
>  signature.asc
> < 1KViewDownload

[Pete B]

Brad,

 

Your skills are clearly outstanding, Brad. All I ask is for more of an opportunity to have input on changes you make before you start making changes like that--that's all. Just post your ideas. That's it...

 

As for your uploads, I like the one you have that's not yellowed-but bolded.

 

Pete

[BradM]

Thanks Pete, I am now using that one and revising existing ones when I
cross edit paths.

I have just finished doing all the RocWiki pages in the Chain
Restaurants category, doing major cleanup and addtiions along the
way. I did some with just a few old comments, thought we might as
well get as many archives created now so the process next year goes
smoother. I may have skipped one or two that had only one comment
prior to 2008.

Do you have any Plan of Attack on the rest - perhaps we can divide and
conquer and not get in each other's way. In the meantime I will start
doing the Breakfast review and Archive step.

Off subject, but I have been doing the Alcohol fixups as I go, but
have been just deleting the NO entries, which is easy and matches all
the ones with no entry anyway. Maybe later we address the suggestion
from Ryan about alcohol choice entries.

Brad

On Jul 24, 3:42 pm, Pete B <blu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Brad,
>
> Your skills are clearly outstanding, Brad. All I ask is for more of an
> opportunity to have input on changes you make before you start making
> changes like that--that's all. Just post your ideas. That's it...
>
> As for your uploads, I like the one you have that's not yellowed-but bolded.
>
> Pete
>