[RochesterAreaFlyers] Dogs:
Bob Grant
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Bob Roth
Hello Louis,
What’s needed is a little discussion.. this is not about how I view what Was asked of us .. all pilots should get together and figure out what is needed to make sure we are doing the best we can to keep our relationships in good condition with the “gracious landowners”.
I’ m not sure why hardly another pilot has said anything….. thanks Louis for your opinion . it must be I made too much over resolving
Our problems with landowners before we continue on business as usual. Obviously there is a better way to go about this..instead of
Talking about this and working out solutions.. we have some upset pilots .. and the rest? I’m not sure what their feelings are on this.
There are several possibility’s.
1. Don’t do anything.. whatever happens happens
2. Take it on a site by site basis, decide based on the landowner/access owner/LZ owners /neighbors input.
3. Just not allow dogs
4. Have a leash law, and hope its followed By all.. I refer to the calf that was killed at HP some years back. I think the raf bought the Perouski family some new ones.. I still remember how pissed Rick was.(landowner) it was an out of town pilot I think, who had no idea there were cattle that could be in Jeopardy. I remember Rick saying that the cattle had more rights to the launch area than we as pilots did. (where do you think that was heading)
1. Check with other clubs, see how they do things… (consider we have multiple sites) For instance , ask our friends at FSF what they do or would do.
I’m sure there are other Ideas out there, It should be discussed by the membership as it affects all. I am beginning to question if I’m missing the point here. I think I will mind my own business here for awhile..I’ve said more than my share to this point.
Bobr
From: RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of louis
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:16
AM
To: RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RochesterAreaFlyers] Re:
Dogs:
bob i got a few dogs of my own but our flying sites
around here are
few and far between. we have had one or two other incidents in the
past with dogs and if they displease or worse the landowners then we
will end up taking our dogs for walks in parks and selling our
hang/para gear as we will not have sites to fly them in.
i think the decision (allow dogs or not )should be based on the
indidual landowner demand. if they say no dogs then no dogs period if
they allow dogs on leash then keep the mutt on the leash.
louis
--- In RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com,
"Bob Grant"
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McDaniel, Sean
Hi Bob,
For those that feel the rules don’t apply to themselves I’d have to say stop being so selfish and think about what is best for the group as a whole.
It only takes one person to mess up a good time for the rest of us and it’s the overconfidence that “it will never be me” that causes the problem to begin with.
You’re not going to have any group to be a part of if the one selfish individual causes a problem for the rest of us.
Bob, I do agree with what you’ve been saying. I’ll apologize for being silent too long on this discussion. It takes some guts to put yourself out there like that.
At this point a “no dogs” policy is the safest thing for the sake of the club and our flying sites.
The club has gotten very lax about the rules and now the only tighten up a bit. Unfortunately Moritz has taken the biggest blow because he is the president of the club and had to take an immediate stand. He’s taken the side of caution and I fully support his decision.
Sean
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Joe Schmucker
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:16 AM
bob i got a few dogs of my own but our flying sites around here are
few
and far between. we have had one or two other incidents in the
past with
dogs and if they displease or worse the landowners then we
will end up
taking our dogs for walks in parks and selling our
hang/para gear as we will
not have sites to fly them in.
i think the decision (allow dogs or not
)should be based on the
indidual landowner demand. if they say no dogs then
no dogs period if
they allow dogs on leash then keep the mutt on the leash.
louis
--- In RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com,
"Bob Grant"
<caskydog@...> wrote:
>
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McDaniel, Sean
Joe, to a certain extent I see your point. However it still comes down to a dog-by-dog basis. So if a dog is banned then who else knows about it to enforce that ban? See where I’m going?
Even with this incident the dog owner is saying that from now on
the dog will be leashed because it can’t possibly be left at home.
Lets say the land-owner allows dogs -- the unforeseeable can happen and the
land-owner gets upset even though they allowed it.
There is always going to be the unknown with any animal.
If you’re there to fly then fly. If you’re there to spend time with your dog then maybe that should be done somewhere else.
IMHO, tying a dog up to a tree when it’s 90 out is cruel.
From:
RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Schmucker
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:39 AM
To: RochesterAreaFlyers@yahoogroups.com;
rochesterareaflyers@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [RochesterAreaFlyers] Re: Dogs:
I think I've been pretty clear on where I stand over this issue. However, I would like to point out that Moritz said to keep dogs away for now. He didn't say forever.
My interpretation is that we should let the D-ville issue settle down a bit and temporarily remove the offending party (dogs). I think that the idea was to see if we could rectify the D-ville issue, then implement a leash rule etc.
I believe the lady who lost her pets even said that it would be alright as long as the dogs were leashed. But I think we need to allow some time for healing/forgetting before dogs go to D-ville.
I jumped all over Scott's case about the whole leashing the dog vs. banning the dog because the chicken's blood was still warm and all he could think about was taking his dog to the flying sites. As I said above, you have to allow a cool down period after something serious happens like what happened in D-ville.
The only dogs I can think of that I've seen at high sites are Linda's, Bob's and Scott's. Linda's pooch is very good when tied up and Bob's dog hangs out in his van, and Scott resigned his membership from the club.
Other than D-ville, my vote is to allow dogs to sites provided they are tied up at all times. If the dog is found loose and not under close supervision...dog banned.
Joe
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Thomas C. Ide
I agree with Sean, Flying sites are for flying. If you want to bond with your dog go to a dog park! I love most dogs, but I love to fly more.
Tom
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color=black>
Charles...@thomson.com
out...
I understand the credo 'site preservation first' and I've quickly come
to understand how tenuous our situations are. With that said I feel
it might be a bit hasty to simply ban dogs outright. Besides, I'm
thinking Flash hardly qualifies as a dog.
Why not simply ban all dogs until approved by the BOD... If a dog is
approved then guidelines are necessary (not at certain sites, on a
leash, etc...). Pilots not part of the RAF would simply be banned
from bringing dogs. Given what I've seen, I don't think enforcement
would be all that hard, anyone breaking the rules would be outed on
this forum in roughly 40 seconds or so. Penalties could be made
severe.
The board could review the policy at the end of the year, or God
forbid another incident. If rules were being followed and things
seemed to be in order. That is, dog owners would be on warning this
was their final chance... and the onus of enforcement would be
squarely on them, more then anyone.
Yes, site preservation is number one, but club and pilot preservation
are just as important.
Chuck
On Apr 28, 12:09 pm, "Thomas C. Ide" <thomasc...@adelphia.net> wrote:
> I agree with Sean, Flying sites are for flying. If you want to bond with
> your dog go to a dog park! I love most dogs, but I love to fly more.
> Tom
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rochester...@googlegroups.com
>
> [mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com]On Behalf Of McDaniel, Sean
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 10:59 AM
>
> Joe, to a certain extent I see your point. However it still comes down to a
> dog-by-dog basis. So if a dog is banned then who else knows about it to
> enforce that ban? See where I'm going?
> Even with this incident the dog owner is saying that from now on the dog
> will be leashed because it can't possibly be left at home.
> Lets say the land-owner allows dogs -- the unforeseeable can happen and the
> land-owner gets upset even though they allowed it.
> There is always going to be the unknown with any animal.
>
> If you're there to fly then fly. If you're there to spend time with your dog
> then maybe that should be done somewhere else.
>
> IMHO, tying a dog up to a tree when it's 90 out is cruel.
>
> [mailto:RochesterAreaFly...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of louis
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 12:16 AM
> To: RochesterAreaFly...@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RochesterAreaFlyers] Re: Dogs:
> bob i got a few dogs of my own but our flying sites around here are
> few and far between. we have had one or two other incidents in the
> past with dogs and if they displease or worse the landowners then we
> will end up taking our dogs for walks in parks and selling our
> hang/para gear as we will not have sites to fly them in.
>
> i think the decision (allow dogs or not )should be based on the
> indidual landowner demand. if they say no dogs then no dogs period if
> they allow dogs on leash then keep the mutt on the leash.
>
> louis
>
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McDaniel, Sean
Anyone wish to second the nomination?
I'm honestly not sure what the big draw is to having dogs at the flying site. Why has it come down to "either my dog comes with me or I'm not flying" attitude?
I mean you end up taking your dog and then leaving them on the ground while you fly. You're not spending any quality time with your 4 legged friend while you're flying.
Seems like we're trying to make a point of not making a point.
I enjoy dogs as much as the next person but this funny -- and a bit sad that people aren't looking at this logically.
If you allow one dog then you have to allow all dogs. Who's going to be the "Dog Judge" to determine if a dog is trustworthy or not and explain the do's and don'ts?
Joe Schmucker
may seem a bit harsh, but truthfully we really are open to reason. As a
newer member to our fragile little group, it might seem to be a little
intimidating to speak your mind for fear of a public beating. Not so. If
someone is just plain being a d-bag, I'm going to be the first one to say it
because frankly I don't really care what people think (that's a lie...it
bothers me when chicks hug me after a great flight and I'm all sweaty...)
Honestly, the only reason I was jumping all over Scott was because he was
totally pushing the limits of reasonableness/selfishness. Scott is not a
bad person...as a matter of fact he really does do a lot to help maintain
sites etc. He's by no means a club member who lets everyone else do the
work while he enjoys the fun.
I really don't think Flash is going to cause a problem. Although I think
Flash has a bit of an attitude because he doesn't want me to pet him and
stuff, I think he's an OK dog ;-). I like having Bob Grant around and he's
a lot of fun to fly with. Since his dog really is his personal companion
and of low risk, I really don't see how a fully comprehensive dog ban serves
all of our interests. Maybe rather than banning dogs, we should just ban
people who are irresponsible with their dogs.
I think a dog ban on the Dansville site is appropriate for now. Maybe even
for the whole summer...just to let the land owners regain our trust and not
feel like we are being pushy and unthoughtful.
Joe
PS...Scott, since I know you are reading this, you might want to chill out a
bit and reconsider your position on things. Nobody wants to eject you from
the flying community. We just don't want to be pushy with the land owners.
In my opinion, which is just that, my opinion, you were being pushy
regarding the leashing of your dog at Dansville and with the no fly dates at
Italy Valley. Like I said, just my opinion and I think you are being a bit
"knee-jerkish" to just resign from the club.
-----Original Message-----
From: rochester...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Charles...@thomson.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:36 PM
To: RochesterAreaFlyers
Subject: [RAF:284] Re: [RochesterAreaFlyers] Re: Dogs:
Joe Schmucker
out in his van. He has his dog with him for his weekend trips because that
how he's done things for years. It's his travel buddy. Flash ends up in
the van while Bob is flying (or Maureen has Flash with her while Bob is
flying), so I can see his point. If he's going to come to the Finger Lakes
for 3 or 4 days, he's going to bring his little (snooty) dog with him. :-)
Bob, Flash is a little snooty...you have to admit it... :-)
Chuck
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Joe Schmucker
like we have had crap weather for a month!
I finally got my PTT system mounted in my helmet and I want to try it
out!!!!
Also, I got a Subaru Forester so I can haul me and one or two others up the
hill now. Now that I'm driving to the hills and not the flight park, the
Scion Xa had to go. I can't wait to show you guys the neat little suction
cup mount thingy on the hood. It's pretty darn cool.
Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: rochester...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:rochester...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of McDaniel, Sean
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 2:51 PM
To: rochester...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RAF:285] Re: [RochesterAreaFlyers] Re: Dogs:
Chuck
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LonMcClure
I got a suction cup thingy too!!! I'm wondering if we got the same
thing. This one is a Glider Rider Double. Works great! What did you
get?
>
> - Show quoted text -...
>
> read more »
Joe Schmucker
Lon McClure
Lon McClure P:585.719.9720x239 F:585.719.9735
Joe Schmucker
you need to find a good spot for the suction cups BEFORE you start
fabricating. If I wasn't so damn cheap, I'd prolly have just purchased the
glider rider. Much easier and the single suction cup seems like an easier
fit. However, having two suction cups on each side gives me a little extra
confidence.
Thanks for the compliment!