Re: [Ripple] Ripple failed miserably for me

[Kurt Padilla]

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Since it sounds like you want XRP, it would seem that everything is working as Ripple's creators intended.

Kurt

Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I have been trying to get Ripples ( XRP ), since the end of February.
>
>I have tried bagging, trading, asking, participating in free give-aways
>and
>sending eMails to people who sell ripples on reddit.
>
>I had ZERO success in getting XRP: Ripple Graph describes my account as
>
>dead. <https://ripple.com/graph/#rDuEraqUXpRM5xiJoGsjsif7AiR2dVJsxk>
>
>Ripple failed, because *ripple trading requires me to already have XRP
>in
>order to trade XRP in the ripple system. (epic FAIL)*
>
>Ripple failed, because people scammed me to buy XRP from them that they
>do
>not have in the first place.
>
>Ripple failed, because the free give-aways require me to have exotic
>forum
>accounts that are old.
>
>Ripple failed, because people who pretend to give free XRP are actually
>
>selling them at a high price. First they pretend to give out some free
>XRP
>and then they say that they have given away all of them already. Then
>they
>send me to some shady websites, where I have to buy with an exotic
>digital
>currency that I do not have. I wonder, if those people had any XRP in
>the
>first place or are just scamming people.
>
>I have heard about the perpetual ripple give-away rumors for month now.
>
>Nothing had happened that gave me access to XRP.
>
>Can anyone explain, why there was no free XRP in the ripple.com
>account,
>when I opened one. XRP is supposed to be better than old money. So, why
>was
>it so hard to just give 350 XRP out to the first 100.000 unique
>accounts
>??? Ripple.com should have had free XRP in new accounts. Add coptcha,
>email
>verification, IP limits and other ways to limit hoarders, but please
>give
>them away inside of new accounts, instead of forcing new users into the
>
>hands of XRP scams and greedy traders !
>
>
>Why do we have to buy XRP, if ripple is supposed to be anti-money.
>
>*Why does XRP have to be destroyed on transactions, instead of being
>equally re-distributed to all white-listed ripple nodes or to the
>people
>whom we grant trust or to the people whom we send a transaction ?*
>
>Why are people greedily hoarding XRP after getting it for free or for
>super
>cheap ?
>
>
>The ripple eco-system is corrupt at the moment. Can anybody explain;
>why it
>will be different in the future ?
>Can anybody give me logical reasons, why is it so hard to get XRP at
>the
>moment ?
>
>
>Thank you !

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[Kurt Padilla]

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The XRP is supposed to keep users from clogging the system with bogus transactions, but the creators hope for the value of the XRP to increase as a reward to themselves for having expended the effort to create Ripple. I recall that they've admitted as much on this mailing list. There is a fair amount of discussion on this topic already.

Kurt

Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Are you indicating that the Ripple's creators intended to create a
>system
>of a greedy hoarders and a deflation-pyramid where XRP gets destroyed
>and
>becomes more valuable to keep than to use ?

>
>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:21:32 PM UTC+2, Kurt Padilla wrote:
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA256
>>
>> Since it sounds like you want XRP, it would seem that everything is
>> working as Ripple's creators intended.
>>
>> Kurt
>>

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[Alessio Stalla]

I don't know whether Ripple will succeed or not, but you cannot judge it only from your initial failure to get XRP. I was late to the game, but I managed to get some free XRP from a member of the community, without subscribing to any forum or shady website, and without paying anything.

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you indicating that the Ripple's creators intended to create a system of a greedy hoarders and a deflation-pyramid where XRP gets destroyed and becomes more valuable to keep than to use ?

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 2:21:32 PM UTC+2, Kurt Padilla wrote:

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[Jeffrey Cliff]

I think that you are forgetting the part that ripple.com is currently a closed beta.  That is the reason xrp are so hard to come by.  You have not been invited so you think will never work?   This week there's going to be a public blitz/giveaway for XRP...maybe make up your mind after that happens.

On 18 April 2013 07:21, Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ripple will succeed, if people will get XRP the easy way.

Otherwise anybody can start a clone and make an easier access to it. Being first is not an advantage, if others can compete with an easier system that is fair to the passionate prospect like me. I tried more than 10 times to get XRP, but failed. Any sane person will give up after fifth attempt.

It is much easier to get Australian Dollars than to get XRP. I feel that Ripple is a FAIL as of now.

The XRP market is populated by hoarders who have XRP in the ripple system, but have no buyers, because the buyers need XRP to buy XRP.

Prove me wrong, if you can !

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[Jeffrey Cliff]

How about when there will be an official, open and public *release* of the system?

Just because you were allowed in to the website client does not mean you could use the network

On 2013-04-18 8:01 AM, "Art Mart" <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I was able to create an account and to create an entry in the ripple adress-book. A closed beta looks a lot different.

I have heard about the ripple-give-away that is supposed to happen in the next week, for about 2 month now. It never was open and accessible to all. Some people got XRP, tried to sell it, but failed, because people like me need XRP to buy XRP. The XRP price has crashed, because the buyers have no easy way to get XRP before they can trade it.

A good practice would be to announce that there would be a continuous Ripple-give-away from Christmas 2013 or something, instead of sending people into the hands of scam artists. It would be also good for Ripple to make XRP free, because free things tend to become expensive after they are traded. I feel that the Ripple creators are broke or desperate to keep control over the public volume of XRP, in which case the Ripple will fail, because other digital currencies have established markets with transparent distribution and creation.

I feel that XRP is secretly intended to become like bitcoin, but who needs XRP, when bitcoin is already established. XRP can not compete with bitcoin, because they have better numbers.

Where is the page, a screenshot or at least a sketch of the ripple-give-away project that is supposed to happen in the next week, since it was February ???

Where is the official, open and public discussion about the system of distributing initial XRP to the average person ???

As of now, it all seems shady and cloudy.

[Jeffrey Cliff]

Yes.  Gmail also worked just fine while it too was invite only closed beta

On 2013-04-18 8:28 AM, "Art Mart" <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Now and today ! Users can transfer their balance from Bitstamp to the Ripple wallet, if they grant trust to Bitstamp first.

Do you call this a closed beta ???

[Seth de l'Isle]

Hi Art,


2013/4/18 Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com>

I had ZERO success in getting XRP: Ripple Graph describes my account as dead.

I have sent you some XRP to get started and extended some trust.

Thanks,

  Seth

[Kurt Padilla]

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I am unconvinced that XRP even need to exist, but discussions on that topic already exist.

Kurt

Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Did not expect this. He honestly send me 800 XRP. I honestly send 450
>back
>to him.
>
>I wish that Ripple.com will finally have a sketch or a public plan that
>
>will discuss the distribution of XRP.
>
>I wish that the system will be open and not require to beg for XRP.

>
>On Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:33:45 PM UTC+2, Seth de l'Isle wrote:
>>
>> Hi Art,
>>
>>

>> 2013/4/18 Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com <javascript:>>

>>
>> I had ZERO success in getting XRP: Ripple Graph describes my account
>as

>> dead. <https://ripple.com/graph/#rDuEraqUXpRM5xiJoGsjsif7AiR2dVJsxk>

>>
>>
>> I have sent you some XRP to get started and extended some trust.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Seth
>>
>>

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[Jeffrey Cliff]

If xrp is Only about spam then there is no issues with unfair distribution. People might destroy their xrp...but that just means that they won't be able to make transactions in the long run.  If we actually run out of xrp then a) we'll see it coming if it happens like that (more likely people just won't spend it since that is cheaper) but either way this is premature speculation--there are incentives to not burn money like things in this fashion.   We do not know how xrp will be distributed or how expensive it will get.  If its too expensive, users won't use it and we shouldn't believe that open coin doesn't understand this

On 2013-04-18 9:58 AM, "Art Mart" <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:

XRP must exist to prevent spam, but the distribution of them is un-fair.

The senseless destruction of XRP fees is one huge point of failure.

That Sheth guy send me my first 800 XRP, I send 450 back to him, because I wish to be honest. The XRP transaction fees got destroyed in the process. Now both of us have less XRP in a total sum. We both got richer, because our XRP became more scarce.

It is very bad, because someone will figure a way to get a lot of XRP and send them back and forth like spam. XRP will deflate and that one who holds the most of them will become the richest. It will enrich the richest like our current economic model. XRP transaction fee destruction promotes transaction spam for the people who wish XRP to appreciate in value or to become scarce.

It is being done with diamonds and gold at the moment. Or do you really think that Russia has less gold and diamonds than anybody else.

South Africa is one of the biggest gold and diamonds producers, because Russia is not interested into devaluation of their resources. So, they keep the supply on the low. And say that they have no gold, while they obviously have more resources than anybody else. Just look at the map.

The destruction of XRP transaction fees encourages XRP transaction spam or at least the encouragement of useless XRP destruction that will lead to the appreciation of XRP value.

We will see casinos and gambling sites that promote this. Those sites will keep XRP, while others will have to destroy them on fees and buy new ones for more cash. Gambling and addiction will ensure the systematic XRP destruction for the sake of deflation.

Anybody, tell me how this is not a systematic scam of the hoarders ???

[Jorge Timón]

I don't think the fees destruction is a big flaw. Much more xrp will
be lost on concept of "lost wallets" than on fees.
Being cash, I would prefer xrp to have a fixed supply and demurrage
like Freicoin has. But I've been trying it hard and haven't been able
to come up with a design for a "gesellian Ripple".
The consensus mechanism seems incompatible with rewarding validators,
so fees destruction seems the only way to prevent spam.
We can always use xrp just as reserve and enjoy the IOU part, which is
the real ripple concept. But I don't see any flaw on xrp that btc
doesn't have as well.

When they release rippled (the server/peer/validator code) they will
probably have already given away most or many of the xrp to prevent an
early fork from taking over.

It is a closed beta. What you've done (create an account, manage the
contacts) occurs only in the client without the Ripple network knowing
anything. To interact with the Ripple network you need xrp, period.



On 4/19/13, Pdf Tiff <pdf...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Art,
>
> Care to pass the favor on? I just signed up with Ripple and looking to get
>
> started rp6yPpi3A2X9C3uquM6UXw9CmJ9CV7wFQq
>
>
> On Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:00:26 AM UTC-7, Art Mart wrote:
>>
>> Yes, I agree with you.
>>
>> The only way to make ripple better, is to discuss the flaws and give
>> examples of solutions. Otherwise Ripple will end up being hard-coded into
>> a
>> self-destructive system that is prone to be replaced by anything that is
>> more open and more fair.

>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:07:14 PM UTC+2, jeff wrote:
>>>
>>> If xrp is Only about spam then there is no issues with unfair
>>> distribution. People might destroy their xrp...but that just means that
>>> they won't be able to make transactions in the long run. If we actually
>>>
>>> run out of xrp then a) we'll see it coming if it happens like that (more
>>>
>>> likely people just won't spend it since that is cheaper) but either way
>>> this is premature speculation--there are incentives to not burn money
>>> like
>>> things in this fashion. We do not know how xrp will be distributed or
>>> how
>>> expensive it will get. If its too expensive, users won't use it and we
>>> shouldn't believe that open coin doesn't understand this
>>> On 2013-04-18 9:58 AM, "Art Mart" <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> XRP must exist to prevent spam, but the distribution of them is
>>>> un-fair.

>>>> The senseless destruction of XRP fees is one* huge point of failure.*

>>>>
>>>> That Sheth guy send me my first 800 XRP, I send 450 back to him, because
>>>>
>>>> I wish to be honest. The XRP transaction fees got destroyed in the
>>>> process.
>>>> Now both of us have less XRP in a total sum. We both got richer, because
>>>>
>>>> our XRP became more scarce.
>>>>

>>>> It is *very bad, **because* someone will figure a way to get a lot of

>>>> *Anybody, tell me how this is not a systematic scam of the hoarders
>>>> ???*

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, April 18, 2013 5:04:40 PM UTC+2, Kurt Padilla wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA256
>>>>>
>>>>> I am unconvinced that XRP even need to exist, but discussions on that
>>>>> topic already exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>
>>>>> Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Did not expect this. He honestly send me 800 XRP. I honestly send 450
>>>>> >
>>>>> >back
>>>>> >to him.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I wish that Ripple.com will finally have a sketch or a public plan
>>>>> that
>>>>> >
>>>>> >will discuss the distribution of XRP.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I wish that the system will be open and not require to beg for XRP.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >On Thursday, April 18, 2013 4:33:45 PM UTC+2, Seth de l'Isle wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hi Art,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> 2013/4/18 Art Mart <vivo...@gmail.com <javascript:>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I had ZERO success in getting XRP: Ripple Graph describes my account
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >as

>>>>> >> dead. <https://ripple.com/graph/#**rDuEraqUXpRM5xiJoGsjsif7AiR2dV**
>>>>> Jsxk <https://ripple.com/graph/#rDuEraqUXpRM5xiJoGsjsif7AiR2dVJsxk>>

>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have sent you some XRP to get started and extended some trust.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>>> >> Seth
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>>
>>>>> - --
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>>>>> can verify that I am the actual sender.
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>>>>> Version: APG v1.0.8
>>>>>

>>>>> iLUEAREIAF0FAlFwC4dWHEt1cnQgUG**FkaWxsYSAoQSBrZXkgZm9yIHVzZSBm**cm9t
>>>>> IG15IHBlcnNvbmFsIG1vYmlsZSBkZX**ZpY2UuKSA8a3VydC5wYWRpbGxhQGdt**YWls
>>>>> LmNvbT4ACgkQrP3Ut0LXc/**kJKwD9FBcfGpoKV8xiZyau5cwyW1ax**r11IDWwEC9dL
>>>>> XsrNHtoA/**1rSvgVzkcALux4z3BQoWc4WAukfIr+**6MwMKeN0fMcfe

>>>>> =QmZm
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>>>>>
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>>>
>
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[Seth de l'Isle]

Hello,

I have sent you some XRP to get started and extended some trust.

How did you create your wallet? The way I did is temporarily closed.

Thanks,

  Seth

Le vendredi 19 avril 2013, Pdf Tiff a écrit :

Art,

Care to pass the favor on?  I just signed up with Ripple and looking to get started      rp6yPpi3A2X9C3uquM6UXw9CmJ9CV7wFQq

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 10:00:26 AM UTC-7, Art Mart wrote:

Yes, I agree with you.

The only way to make ripple better, is to discuss the flaws and give examples of solutions. Otherwise Ripple will end up being hard-coded into a self-destructive system that is prone to be replaced by anything that is more open and more fair.

On Thursday, April 18, 2013 6:07:14 PM UTC+2, jeff wrote:

[David Schwartz]

I'm really surprised you had such bad experiences. I was under the impression it was fairly easy to get XRP now. Once you get a small amount, say 300 or so, you can obtain more inside the Ripple network. Usually you can get someone to send you that much just by mentioning your Ripple account in public.

I'm curious what shady web sites you found. I believe that BitMit.net, XRPtrader,com, and BitStamp.net are all reliable places to get XRP.

Again, I'm genuinely surprised anyone had trouble getting such small amounts of XRP now. I haven't heard any other similar reports in several weeks.

DS

[Seth de l'Isle]

2013/4/19 David Schwartz <davidjoe...@gmail.com>:

> I'm curious what shady web sites you found. I believe that BitMit.net,
> XRPtrader,com, and BitStamp.net are all reliable places to get XRP.

I don't think you can get XRP from bitstamp. I can withdraw BTC or
USD in the account there to the equivalent IOU's on the Ripple
network, but I don't see an option to withdraw XRP. The way I got my
XRP after initial bootstrapping was to buy BTC:bitstamp.net and then
trade that within the ripple network for XRP.

I tried out xrptrader.com; they want a relatively large minimum
purchase of 0.4 BTC, otherwise it seems like a very useful service for
people trying to bootstrap their wallets.

Thanks,
Seth

[David Schwartz]

On Friday, April 19, 2013 12:50:40 PM UTC-7, Seth de l'Isle wrote:

2013/4/19 David Schwartz <davidjoe...@gmail.com>:
> I'm curious what shady web sites you found. I believe that BitMit.net,
> XRPtrader,com, and BitStamp.net are all reliable places to get XRP.

I don't think you can get XRP from bitstamp.

You can when they have them. Click Buy/Sell on top and then Buy Ripples on the left.
 

I tried out xrptrader.com; they want a relatively large minimum
purchase of 0.4 BTC, otherwise it seems like a very useful service for
people trying to bootstrap their wallets.

I'm fairly certain those are just price points and you can exchange any sensible amount. It's not well explained on the page though.

DS