Ripple account for WikiLeaks?

[Thomas Sherlock]

Paypal freezes WikiLeaks' account:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/04/paypal-shuts-down-wikileaks-account.

Perhaps Julian Assange should consider Ripple?

[Jeffrey Cliff]

I have an email from wikileaks(was it assange?  I can't remember) from a *long* time ago somewhere where they said they were very interested in it, but need the network to be bigger before they consider joining.
Jeff

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ripple Project" group.
To post to this group, send email to rippl...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rippleusers...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rippleusers?hl=en.

[Jeffrey Cliff]

Their exact response:

Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:08:21 +0000 (GMT)

"Like to, but no one uses it"

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 05:44:46AM +0000, jeff cliff wrote:
> does wikileaks accept donation offers through paypal-alternative Ripple?

> (http://www.ripplepay.com)
> 
> -tmg1
> 
> --
> Free e-mail accounts at http://zworg.com

[Jaro Larnos]

If they took up on the offer it might create some positive hubris for
Ripple. Try again? :) I mean it's the classic chicken and egg problem
we are looking at here.

2010/12/5 Jeffrey Cliff <jeffre...@gmail.com>:

[Thomas Hartman]

is there anyone on this list who would accept payment FROM wikileaks in ripple. eg for hosting. or willing to convert ripple to more liquid currency and provide wikileaks with the more liquid money for their uses?

[Jeffrey Cliff]

That's true.  What you can get in exchange for money via ripplepay has changed since 2008.

* There are at least 3 people who are offering ripple->paypal (Daniel @ rippleexchange is the cheapest) and at least 1 person who's offering web hosting service for ripple(also Daniel @ rippleexchange).  So anyone who can route payments to him can qualify as this, although there's obviously a finite amount of credit available.

https://ripplexchange.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=90
https://ripplexchange.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=73

This brings up an interesting issue though -- it used to be pretty reliable that if you created a payment for a certain amount, and you got to the 'Confirm Payment' scsreen on ripplepay,..it meant there was credit available.  Now I think this isn't true anymore as there is credit available on the node, but there isn't a route.

What there should probably be is a 'test to see if we can at this moment pay this amount to this node' which the 'Confirm Payment' screen used to be...

But even so -- I wonder how much worth of webhosting would be worth their time to offer.

Jeff

[Daniel]

It looks like Wikileaks would rather do business in places with a higher density of pirate reps. :)

[Jeffrey Cliff]

http://www.reddit.com/r/business/comments/ehdf9/mastercard_worldwide_stops_wikileaks_payments/

now that Paypal, Mastercard, *and* Visa have all abandoned them...perhaps times are different

jeff

[Thomas Hartman]

so how DO you donate to wikileaks now?

i assume some mechanisms - webmoney.ru say - are still working.

or something.

can someone get the details?

im swamped. but i'd really love to  know more.

and yes, the more i learn about this the more i agree ripplecollective should tale this use case seriously.

>>> >>>> rippleusers...@googlegroups.com<rippleusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>> .
>>> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rippleusers?hl=en.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups
>>> >> "Ripple Project" group.
>>> >> To post to this group, send email to rippl...@googlegroups.com.
>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>>> >> rippleusers...@googlegroups.com<rippleusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>> .
>>> >> For more options, visit this group at
>>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/rippleusers?hl=en.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Ripple Project" group.
>>> > To post to this group, send email to rippl...@googlegroups.com.
>>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>>> rippleusers...@googlegroups.com<rippleusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

>>> .
>>> > For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/rippleusers?hl=en.
>>> >
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "Ripple Project" group.
>>> To post to this group, send email to rippl...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

>>> rippleusers...@googlegroups.com<rippleusers%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>

[Mr. Meitar Moscovitz]

On Dec 7, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Thomas Hartman wrote:

> so how DO you donate to wikileaks now?

I believe you can still donate here:

https://xipwire.com/give/wl

Good night, and good luck.

Cheers,
-Meitar Moscovitz
Personal: http://maymay.net
Professional: http://MeitarMoscovitz.com

[Ryan Fugger]

Until Ripple credits can be used to buy the things that Wikileaks
needs, they won't care about us. (And just having someone offer
hosting for Ripple credits, and then donate Ripple credits to
Wikileaks isn't very convincing -- why don't they just donate the
hosting straightaway?)

That's the same issue that every potential user will have: can they
buy something they need on Ripple? We'll get there, but it will start
small. I don't think Wikileaks donations is a viable use case for
quite a few years. I'm envisioning more a modest trade in used goods
and spare-time services among people in the same town, expanding to
locally-grown produce and hopefully accommodation.

Ryan

[Daniel]

Yeah, it's not totally clear right away how best to donate, but I'll be happy to convert your credit transfers into Wikileaks donations as it becomes clearer.

It's not just Ripple, it's pretty much everyone outside an old clique.

[Miles Thompson]

Surely the use case is that someone, or rather a whole network of people, who do still have access to the mainstream banking system can receive money in 'on behalf' (sort of) of wikileaks via things like paypal, and then funnel that to wikileaks via the ripple pay system.

Ripple would be a useful just as a way to make it 100% clear
1.  that the donations received are intended for wikileaks (who would need an account) and
2.  that there needs to be a path of trust, between someone you trust, and someone close enough to 'wikileaks' that wikileaks can actually receive the donations as cash (or equivalent) at the other end.

It would be able funneling 'normal' cash money in via multiple sources to a single node at the end. I also think this would be really exciting use case for ripple.

On the down side, the trouble would be finding the/enough people that are close enough to 'wikileaks' to make this work and getting them involved as I imagine they are fairly busy right now.

FWIW I heard someone from wikileaks speak at the last HOPE conference back in July, and he emphasized even then that while they appreciate the offers of 'help' in all its forms they are totally overwhelmed by the amount of incoming offers to help, basically unable to trust anyone 'new' and therefore not really answering emails of people offering 'help' in any form. And that was back in July. Presumably now it's even worse. So to make this possible someone here would need to know someone who knows someone, eg involved in Tor protocol? or pirate party that could help set this up as a way to channel money towards wikileaks. Fortunately the basic infrastructure is there right?

Miles

PS Hmm while i have my pessimistic hat on, I think it would be really important that people would funnel their donations to someone they actually *trust* not just someone they heard they should send money to as bad things could happen otherwise.. or at the every least the transparency as to when and where links are breaking down would have to be pretty fast.

[Daniel]

https://ripplexchange.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102

I'll match your reasonable donations to Wikileaks, and will convert your credit transfers to Wikileaks donations. I'll make my best judgments of reasonable donations. All feedback welcome.

Also, you can get to Wikileaks via the following link:

https://ripplexchange.com/wikileaks/

[Miles Thompson]

.. seems relevant to this thread:

WikiLeaks Can Still Get Cash – Thanks To Pirate Bay’s Co-Founder
http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2010/12/07/wikileaks-can-still-get-cash-thanks-to-pirate-bays-co-founder/

Go flattr. Guess I'm gonna go charge my flattr account now.

miles

[Miles Thompson]

Just FYI on donating via flattr.

 Flattr is by no means set up to do this kind of thing - just not the write UI. I did eventually manage to figure out how to get my flattr per click value high enough to make a decent donation and then click to read and flattr - a couple things belonging to wikileaks but it was far from an easy process.

Interestingly nobody at wikileaks had set up a new #cablegate 'thing' in flattr to donate to, so you had to donate via the Afghan war diaries etc, so I guess maybe they are not focused on receiving donations right now?

https://xipwire.com on the other hand does have the right interface metaphor but I'll be honest they make me a bit nervous. I'm sure they are fine but knowing so little about them I'm sure I hesitate to get my ccard out.

In short, I think there is still a good use case for ripple here, especially if Daniel is going to match donations - though I'm not sure how Daniel you hope to get the money to wikileaks at the end of the day? Probably too late for this news cycle (if you will) but the idea of an 'honest/in the open' but distributed and non-centrally controlled alternative to Visa/Mastercard as a way to transmit money from me to a worthy cause sounds like something that people might get inspired by. Maybe the next forbes article would be about ripplePay or something .

miles

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Miles Thompson <utu...@gmail.com> wrote:

.. seems relevant to this thread:

WikiLeaks Can Still Get Cash – Thanks To Pirate Bay’s Co-Founder
http://blogs.forbes.com/parmyolson/2010/12/07/wikileaks-can-still-get-cash-thanks-to-pirate-bays-co-founder/

Go flattr. Guess I'm gonna go charge my flattr account now.

miles

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Daniel <dan...@ripplexchange.com> wrote:

https://ripplexchange.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102

I'll match your reasonable donations to Wikileaks, and will convert your credit transfers to Wikileaks donations. I'll make my best judgments of reasonable donations. All feedback welcome.

Also, you can get to Wikileaks via the following link:

https://ripplexchange.com/wikileaks/

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Mr. Meitar Moscovitz <mei...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Dec 7, 2010, at 5:52 PM, Thomas Hartman wrote:

> so how DO you donate to wikileaks now?

I believe you can still donate here:

https://xipwire.com/give/wl

Good night, and good luck.
 

On 12/07/2010 06:07 PM, Daniel wrote:

[Romualdo Grillo]

> In short, I think there is still a good use case for ripple here, especially

> if Daniel is going to match donations.

I agree!

I have rippled to Daniel 5 Canadian Dollars, with this message:
"Daniel, I want to donate those 5 CD to Wikileaks. I hope more users
will join your wikileaks "donation pool" ciao"
If we send Ripple money to Daniel he will aggregate many donations and
make one only bigger payment to Wikileaks, lowering transaction fees.

In my opinion, if it works, that's the first really useful application
of Ripple.

Romualdo

[Romualdo Grillo]

The second part of this video ( from 2:35), describes a similar, but
easier, case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s512x58dqDg

The case is similar because: Ripple is useful because aggregates many
small payments in bigger less frequent payments.

The case is easier because:
in the "Alice and Mark" use case I suppose the payee of the payment is
connected to Ripple and there is enough credit flow everywhere.

[Jeffrey Cliff]

> (And just having someone offer
hosting for Ripple credits, and then donate Ripple credits to
Wikileaks isn't very convincing -- why don't they just donate the
hosting straightaway?)

Because it's not just one person offering to donate hosting --- in this case it would be a lot of people donating a little bit of hosting.  If it it were just one person who had hosting to donate it would make more sense to donate hosting but if the rest of us want to donate something but can't offer hosting this may not make sense.   Some of us can't donate hosting worth talking about but mabye we can do something of value to someone elsewhere on the ripple network in exchange.

The hosting company/individual may not even want to donate to wikileaks!  But they will because that's what they are being paid to do(and they could make a profit, even).
Jeff

[Jeffrey Cliff]

It should also be pointed out that *Swiss Banks* are abandoning them.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/07/con-visa-wikileaks.html

Jeff

[Thomas Hartman]

Romualdo -- that is a great video, and use case!

[Romualdo Grillo]

On 8 Dic, 17:59, Thomas Hartman <thomashartm...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Romualdo -- that is a great video, and use case!

Thank you very much! The video is waiting for a voiceover. Remember
that the wiki now contains an updated list of Ripple related videos:
http://ripple-project.org/Main/Videos

[Daniel]

Thanks! Although the Ripple payment hasn't gone through yet, maybe we
can confirm its status?

Love the video, btw... nice music. :)

Re the donations, I'm planning on letting some of the distortions clear
up so that it's easier to send through the donations, although if need
be then I can send donations sooner through one of the still-available
options.

[Romualdo Grillo]

On 9 Dic, 04:57, Daniel <dan...@ripplexchange.com> wrote:
> Thanks! Although the Ripple payment hasn't gone through yet, maybe we
> can confirm its status?

Sorry I forgot to click on proceed.

> Love the video, btw... nice music. :)

Is there a volunteer to make a voice-over and remove the awful
music? :)

> Re the donations, I'm planning on letting some of the distortions clear
> up so that it's easier to send through the donations, although if need
> be then I can send donations sooner through one of the still-available
> options.
>

No hurry for me, let's wait and aggregate more micro donations.

[Daniel]

On 12/09/2010 02:14 AM, Romualdo Grillo wrote:
> On 9 Dic, 04:57, Daniel <dan...@ripplexchange.com> wrote:
>> Thanks! Although the Ripple payment hasn't gone through yet, maybe we
>> can confirm its status?
> Sorry I forgot to click on proceed.
>

Got it now, thanks again.

>> Love the video, btw... nice music. :)
> Is there a volunteer to make a voice-over and remove the awful
> music? :)
>
>> Re the donations, I'm planning on letting some of the distortions clear
>> up so that it's easier to send through the donations, although if need
>> be then I can send donations sooner through one of the still-available
>> options.
>>
> No hurry for me, let's wait and aggregate more micro donations.
>

Sounds good to me.

[Daniel]

I received CAD 5 and EUR 16 overall. I matched it and topped it off to
CAD 60, just sent to Wikileaks. Regardless of what one thinks of some of
the details of how Wikileaks proceeds, I think it's important to speak
freely in working toward betterment. Thanks to all who contributed!

[Jeffrey Cliff]

Daniel -- how are you doing that?  It would be useful to have some kind of verification for those of us who are collecting donations that we may be able to trust your ability to pay them.

Jeff

[Thomas Hartman]

Bravo.

[Daniel]

I sent a bank money order to the destination Wikileaks listed on their Support page (http://wikileaks.ch/support.html). I found that many of the online options were still unavailable, while the more direct bank options were generally accessible only from other countries and cost a lot. The money delivery services like moneygrams were more expensive and less convenient than the bank, so the money order seemed like the best choice. I have receipts for the money order and postal service, I can scan them for donors, although I suppose it wouldn't be possible to show that I actually sent the money order in the mail and that they actually received and deposited it. Let me know if you'd like any further info.

[Romualdo Grillo]

> I received CAD 5 and EUR 16 overall. I matched it and topped it off to
> CAD 60, just sent to Wikileaks.

Great!!!!!!!!
That's one small step for wikileaks, one big step for Ripple.
We have payed commission only once by aggregating more micro-
donations.

[Romualdo Grillo]

As Jeff points out:

> It would be useful to have some kind of verification for those of us who are >collecting donations that we may be able to trust your ability to pay them.

This is a very important problem: I see two solutions:



1) In the future: beneficiaries will join Ripple network, if credit
limits are high enough there will be no need for payment tools like
Paypal, recipes etc.

2) Now: Choose Beneficiaries with a "Public donor list" or other tools
to transparently certify what donation they receive.

Wikimedia, for example, used to transparently publish a "list of
donors". Wikimedia say they suspended temporarily the public list
because of technical problems.
Here you can see a screenshot ( october 5 2010) of that fundamental
page:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B8dIhu2cdQwsNDMzZDFiNDAtZjMwMC00OGIwLWI5MzctOWU5MDczY2Q1ZTA1&hl=en

[Miles Thompson]

Thought this tweet from wikileaks was relevant to this thread:

from: http://twitter.com/#!/wikileaks/status/34400366347042816
@wikileaks WikiLeaks

Please only donate to official bank accounts etc linked on http://wikileaks.ch/support.html

--