windows

[FRED WALKER]

I agree with window replacement. I don't own a victorian home, but I have replaced 14 windows in my house. I did it myself so I saved the cost of installation. Now I have double pane energy effecient windows that look great and my cold spots are gone and my energy bills are less. I am now warm and comfy all winter long (no more blankets over my lap to keep warm!).

I don't understand the hangup of the need  perfect restoration using the old existing windows. You will end up with a lot of wasted time and old drafty single pane windows. Watch "This Old House" and see how they routinely replace windows even on high priced old properties in Boston. Doing this adds to market value (I am an appraiser) and the comfort of the occupants. You can get affordable windows that don't ruin the character of the house. And also look at all the old rennovated downtown commercial buildings in Des Moines. The first thing they do is replace the old windows. So make that house beautiful, but also updated for modern living. Lust rememeber that what you will save on energy plus the tax credits will defray a portion of the costs.

fred walker

[lok...@aol.com]

I have gone both directions. In the house I live in (an 1899 American Four with 6' x 4' windows) I have restored the beautiful originals with the original glass. On the 1888 Victorian we restored I went with high end replacements.

Both are beautiful and really add to the respective house. The windows in the house I live in I will likely never change despite their shortcomings. I use a temporary seasonal caulk on them every fall and deal with the heat loss from the single pane with heavier curtains in the winter. We have insulated the remainder of the house and see average winter bills of $300 in a 2,700 sq ft house.

There is no right or wrong here. Just personal tastes. One thing to consider is the glass in the old windows...a few of the panes at my Victorian were interesting enough that we had the window manufacturer actually place the pane inbetween the panes of glass in the new windows...maintains a little piece of history and gives you an interesting piece to talk about when you tell people your home's stories.


Good things,
Don L. Curry (aka Loki)
Loki's Garden
Design, Landscaping, Construction, Maintence
1189 Tenth Street
Des Moines, IA 50314
515.201.0762

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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From: FRED WALKER <fnwa...@prodigy.net>

Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 16:20:51 -0800 (PST)

To: <renov...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: {RenovateDSM} windows

I agree with window replacement. I don't own a victorian home, but I have replaced 14 windows in my house. I did it myself so I saved the cost of installation. Now I have double pane energy effecient windows that look great and my cold spots are gone and my energy bills are less. I am now warm and comfy all winter long (no more blankets over my lap to keep warm!).

I don't understand the hangup of the need  perfect restoration using the old existing windows. You will end up with a lot of wasted time and old drafty single pane windows. Watch "This Old House" and see how they routinely replace windows even on high priced old properties in Boston. Doing this adds to market value (I am an appraiser) and the comfort of the occupants. You can get affordable windows that don't ruin the character of the house. And also look at all the old rennovated downtown commercial buildings in Des Moines. The first thing they do is replace the old windows. So make that house beautiful, but also updated for modern living. Lust rememeber that what you will save on energy plus the tax credits will defray a portion of the costs.

fred walker

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[Steven Wilke-Shapiro]

I want to thank everyone who has added to this discussion - making the decision about repairing or replacing windows is not an easy one and due to the many influencing factors.  From the discussion so far, I have seen the following factors to consider (along with some thoughts of my own):

• Condition of the existing windows - Are they rotted or deteriorated beyond repair?
• Energy efficiency - What is the actual potential energy savings/payback?
• Lead paint - Both replacement and repairs MUST be done in a lead-safe manner.
• Cost - Quality replacement windows with proper installation can be quite expensive. 
• Material - Vinyl is cheap but is not a long-term product, wood is more expensive but is more stable over time.  Other options include extruded aluminum (not as popular) and composite (resin/wrapped).
• Quality - A low quality wood window will not last as long as a high quality wood window.
• Historic character - Windows are one of the defining features of a historic home.  Changing the look of the windows (from wood to vinyl, for example) changes the appearance of a house.  
• Timeline - Both window replacement and repair projects can be done over time, focusing on critical openings first.
• Add-ons - You can also consider low-e coatings, storm windows, double-pane glazing as part of a window replacement project.

From a sustainability and historic character perspective, I always look first to repairing existing windows.  If a window is deteriorated beyond repair, I usually advise people to install as good and accurate a replacement window as they can afford.  Phasing the project (replacing the worst offenders and doing temporary efficiency fixes for ones that can wait).  Research has shown that the actual payback on replacement windows (versus repairable historic wood windows) based on energy efficiency is too long to use that as a primary justification.

Happy renovating,

Steve

http://studiorenew.com
Renovation design, consulting, and construction drawings
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http://RenovateDSM.com
Des Moines Rehabbers Club
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[a1ha...@juno.com]

FYI - This seems appropriate - I learned this week that the DM Municipal Bldg. (City Hall) willl get window replacements this spring.  I think a Federal Grant is paying. The cornerstone was laid June 14, 1910 and we are planning to celebrate the Centennial of the building, probably in June.  If anyone would like to participate (i.e. research, period clothing, vehicles, buggies, etc.) please let me know.
Pat Meiners, President, DM Historical Society

[jlarsen]

My last words (maybe) on replacement windows.

 

You do not have to buy the most expensive windows out there in order to meet your needs. However, do not examine the bottom line in your investments unless you can truly do an “apple-to-apples comparison. Some people don’t like to hear this; I think it is an important consideration in your long term happiness.

 

Consider the materials and their long-term strength or weakness. I am not a fan of vinyl as a structural materials only due to it’s susceptibility to hot and cold cycles. Our weather tends to make vinyl shrink and stretch with the weather, and while some manufacturers of vinyl product engineer product to address that kind of movement, it doesn’t address what happens down the road. Vinyl siding as an example is installed using a roofing nail tacked dead center into a slot in the vinyl. The slot is there to allow the vinyl to expand and contract. This is why you do not flatten the nail completely into the nail fin.  This would stress the vinyl and eventually break down at the points of contact with the nails. You don’t see that with cement board. Structurally sturdy. Long term stable. Aa pain for low maintenance but that is another story.

 

I have come across vinyl windows in the 7-10 year range that begin to “drag” when operated. Out of the box, they work fine. Most things do. But given the test of time, the movement in vinyl stresses the welded corners in both the sash frame as well as the window frame. And what some people would regard as dirt in the track that can be cleaned out to make the windows work better, I will state that all you need do is go to any glass company on any particular day during lunch time and you will see people bringing in their vinyl window sash for IG replacement due to reasons they don’t know. In doing a simple tight-string test, you will see all the points on the vinyl sash that moved just enough to enhance a already existing hidden crack in the glass or, much movement that simply forced the IG unit to separate from the sash, and the IG unit fail.

 

Yes, I have problems with wood frame windows, as well as composite frame windows. Not one of them are perfect long term. However, if I were to replace my windows again today, the materials involved would certainly be something I would research. That said…

 

I have seen great windows installed not using best practices and within 20 years the windows fail. What I am telling you is you need to educate yourself in how windows should be installed in your area. When investing in windows and doors (and anything else), make certain the installations team is bonded/ insured fully, have training and ongoing training for best practices (Installation Masters), certified in things like lead abatement procedures, etc. This should help separate those who work out of their trunks and fly under the radar when it comes to compliance from those who take their industry seriously. As important, ask yourself why company A offers up a quote of $ 10,000.00, while company B offers up $ 9,800.00 and company C $ 6,500.00. When I see the ads on tv stating a company can sell and install any size window for $ 169.00, I questions what steps will be missed in order to get a lot of windows installed in order for that installer to make money, what is lacking in the materials that drop the price that significantly (both glass and frame), etc. I also would prefer the installer are employed by the window company. I don’t want my installer packing up at 1 pm and telling me they will be back sometime this week only to see them moving their golf bag to get access when they make it out to their gof course later that hour (yes, that actually happened, and it happened to me….sigh)

 

It’s Sunday, and I do my Sunday rants. I apologize for that. I’ve already yelled at the tv during IPT’s Meet the Press. My wife tells me “less coffee, less coffee…

 

Best regards,

 

Beta