Gluing up a table top. Can anybody please advise?
Null
I am going to make a table top. I've got the wood, the biscuits, the plane
and the glue. But I'm wondering how on earth I'll glue it all together and
clamp it dead flat. Can anbody please help me out with some advice here? If
I clamp it down to a surface it will stick so how do I keep it flat long
enough for the glue to dry?
Also, if I buy dressed wood, should I still run my plane along the sides I
will be joining? I intend to do this two lengths at a time, turning one over
to get a tight fit. Do any of you blokes just bang dressed wood straight
together?
Thanks again,
Null.
David F. Eisan
Somebody asked in another forum how I did panel glueups, and since I think
I managed to write it down with some coherence this time, I thought I would
share it with the group here.
I don't use biscuits, the alignement is never perfect, cauls work better.
David's totally AR panel glue up technique:
Prep stock,
- If I am starting with boards wider than 8", rip in half with band saw so
they will fit on my DJ-20.
- Flatten all boards on my jointer.
- Thickness plane until all milling marks are gone from rough stock, leave
at max yieldable (is that a word?) thickness.
- Edge joint, then rip to max yieldable (there is that word again...) width.
You need some psudocauls,
- Get some 2x6's, cut them to about 15", face joint one side flat, edge
joint both edges (they don't need to be parallel, just strait).
- Put clear packing tape on one edge of the caul.
Make sub panels,
- Since my DeWALT planer is only 12˝ inches wide, make sub panels no bigger
than will fit through planer.
The Glue Up, (this is the AR part on how to get perfect panels)
- Lay your boards on the cauls (I use three sets most times for table top
glueups), on top of the edge with the packing tape.
- Look for nice grain matches, check that grain is running in same direction
on all boards as you will be running this through your planer and don't want
tearout from opposing grain directions.
- Glue each edge, lay on cauls.
- DO NOT ALLOW BOARDS TO TOUCH! Keep them about ź" apart.
- Place top cauls on top of boards being glued up, in line with lower cauls.
- Use F-clamps, two per caul, one for each end of a pair of cauls. Snug
these clamps down, don't reef on them, just moderate pressure. (Crappy
Tire's F-clamps are a great deal when they are on sale, I use the 18" model)
- You now have your boards all in the same plane, this is good. Had you
touched the glued edges together before the cauls were in place it would be
almost impossible to get them inline.
- Use pipe clamps to pull the boards together, start from the centre,
alternate top and bottom.
- Once all of your pipe clamps are on, now you reef on the F-clamps, this
keeps everything flat.
- Since you put packing tape on your cauls, the boards will slide together
under pipe clamp pressure. The tape also prevents them from being glued down
to the panel.
- Don't worry about mashing glue into panel, this is no big deal, you will
be planing to final thickness and that will remove any ugly finish blocking
glue marks.
- Leave in clamps for 30 min, remove clamps.
- Use a cabinet scraper (not paint scraper) to remove any glue squeeze out
(Lee Valley sells cabinet scrapers). The glue is rubbery at this point and
will remove easily without ripping out wood like it would if you removed it
after it dried.
- Let 12" panel(s) sit for a day.
- Plane down to final desired thickness. I usually take a 1/64 at a time off
at this point, turning the board over after every pass to even things out.
- Edge joint and rip to max yieldable width.
Need more psudocauls,
- This time cut them just a bit wider than the panel size.
- Check the layout of how your 12" subpanels will be glued up, note where
the glue lines will be, mark these points on the cauls.
- Use a 1" forstner bit to drill a half circle out at each of these points.
This will provide a place for glue squeeze out to go, you cannot simply mash
it into the panel this time as there will be minimal sanding or planing.
- Again, cover one edge with packing tape, form it to fit into the half
circles.
- For table tops, I use one caul about 6" in from each edge an one in the
centre.
Final main panel glue up,
(similar procedure to subpanel glueup)
- Lay boards on bottom cauls, arrange for best grain layout, reversing grain
is less important this time, go for what is prettiest.
- Make sure the half circle cut outs in your cauls are where the glue lines
will be.
- Glue each edge, again, MAKE SURE EDGES DO NOT TOUCH! Keep boards about ź"
apart.
- Place top caul on, hold it in place with an F-clamp at each end. Snug
F-clamps.
- Use pipe clamps to pull boards together, again they will slip on the
packing tape.
- Once boards are fully clamped with alternating pipe clamps, fully tighten
down the F-clamps.
- After 30 minutes, remove from clamps and remove squeeze out with a cabinet
scraper.
- Leave panel for a day.
Final clean up of panel,
- I have a wonderful Stanley #5˝ type 9 large jack plane that I like to use
to level out any minor imperfections in panels. I usually then finish plane
with my little Stanley #3 type 12 smoother. A Lee Valley #4˝ would do both
jobs nicely, but I don't have one yet.
- For those of you who don't own any good hand planes, use a random orbital
sander with some ~60 grit paper to level out any problem areas. Don't use a
belt sander, they are dangerous to your panel and will ruin a panel very
fast if you screw up. I can tell a panel flattened with a hand held belt
sander from across the room, most people are not very good at it.
I also usually rejoint one edge and then rip to final width.
I have a panel cutting sled I built that I used to cross cut large panels to
length.
Call your significant other and show him/her/it just how wonderful your
glueup turned out. You will marvel at your work, and they will give you that
blank look of, "huh, it's just a big board?".
I hopes this helps a few people. My first glueup was a total disaster, I
vowed to find a way to due the perfect glueup and I think I have come close.
Even though this sounds complicated and like a lot of work, try it once and
you will do it every time. Especially for you folks who are new at this, it
really is easy and it works wonderfully.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask,
Thanks,
David.
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Lew Hodgett
> I am going to make a table top. I've got the wood, the biscuits, the plane
> and the glue. But I'm wondering how on earth I'll glue it all together and
> clamp it dead flat.
<snip>
You won't so don't sweat the small stuff.
Blank out your stock oversize, glue up, and clamp.
When finished, remove clamps, put the top in the car and head to the drum
sander shop where they will take a couple of passes, some of your money and
send you on your way with a flat top of the correct finished thickness.
Haven't done this for a while, but a commerical drum sander will probably do
an average top for less than $30, especially if you are patient.
> Do any of you blokes just bang dressed wood straight
> together?
I don't (won't).
--
Lew
S/A: Challenge (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for pictures
There are no problems, only varying degrees of challenging opportunity
Leon
enough to close the gap and get a little bead of glue to appear. Put clamps
on both sides of the panel, front and back. This will cause the clamps to
work against each other. Tighten each a little at a time. If your joints
are square any bow that may occur during glue up should straighten out when
you take the clamps off.
Remember do not over tighten.
I go straight from the saw to glue up.
"Null" <non...@domain.net> wrote in message
news:fNCR6.93492$ff.7...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Thomas Tengowski
1. I would have to agree that gluing it up and taking to a shop with a drum
sander is the best option. I did a 24" x 40" table top out of 5/4 maple and
then took it to a shop to have it sanded. It cost me U$D10 and they did it
in a day. If I tried to get the same even finish with a belt sander I would
have been sanding for hours...
2. I cut to an oversized width (about .125" over) and then plane down to
the correct size. Not saying it is the right thing to do, it's just what I
found worked for me.
3. I also only glue on joint at a time to ensure that the work piece is
straight - so if it is a table top made with 4 joints/4 pieces, I glue up
first 1 to 2 and 3 to 4 then I glue 1joined2 to 3joined4.
4. I used bisquits with no problems...I kinda like 'um
Wood magazine had an excellent article 1-2 years ago on table top
joining...contact me via email and I will try to find out which one it was
if you are interested...
How's the weather Down Under? I see the Collingwood Magpies are doing much
better this year so far. Go Pies! AFL rocks!
Cheers,
Tom
"Null" <non...@domain.net> wrote in message
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D. J.
remove both the piece and the glue from the gluing surface. Most of the
time however, I use four pieces (or more) of 2" x 2" and place two of them
below the piece and two above. I squeeze those together with clamps as well
as clamping the piece together. Additionally, I always joint the surfaces
to be glued, but don't always use biscuits. Maybe there is an easier way,
but this system has worked well for me. Good luck.
D. J.
--
Remove "nospam" from email address.
Null <non...@domain.net> wrote in message
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Stuart Johnson
David,
If you get a chance would you mind posting a picture or two of your caul set
up?
Stuart Johnson
Red Oak, Texas
Mike G.
to prevent staining. You now have a flat surface.
The best way to assure there is no bow is to only glue up two components at
a time and use only the pressure necessary to get some glue squeeze out.
Yes, joint all the edges. As a matter of fact mill all of all the stock true
and, in the long run you'll be a far happier camper. If you want to depend
on your supplier to assure that both of your edges on all you stock is
exactly 90 degrees to at least one of the faces I've got a bridge to sell
you. If the edge jointing for both edges isn't at 90 degrees to the same
face for each piece of stock, and if you don't do the glue up with those
faces arranged on the same side of the piece (preferably the side laying on
the pipe clamps), nothing you will do will give you a flat glue up. I.E. 0
degrees + 0 degrees + etc = 0 degrees deviation, 0 degrees + 1 degree + 3
degrees, + 1 degrees, + 0 degree = 5 degree deviation from flat over the
width of the top and that is only for two boards. Simple math and no way to
avoid it no matter how many biscuits you use, how you arrange your clamps,
or how you tighten the clamps
Hope it helps
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
Weymouth Ma.
http://heirloom-woods.net
Contact
mi...@heirloom-woods.net
mj...@mediaone.net
"Null" <non...@domain.net> wrote in message
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Anthony Pardee
unlike pipe clamps that tend to bow your panels. I use biscuits to help
with alignment.
Paul T. Radovanic
>... Most of the
>time however, I use four pieces (or more) of 2" x 2" and place two of them
>below the piece and two above. I squeeze those together with clamps as well
>as clamping the piece together. ...
I do something similar. I got the idea from Bob Moran's "Woodworking:
The Right Technique" Excellent book.
The main improvement over D.J.'s description is that if you use clamps
to squeeze the ends of the sticks together, you have to leave one
clamp hanging loose in space whilst you apply the clamp at the other
end of the two sticks (or be ambidextrous ;o) -- it can be done, but
it's a balancing act. So use bolts instead (more on that in a
minute). Also, Moran's clamping cauls achieve two functions -- they
hold the panel glue-up flat, but they also apply clamping pressure to
the glue edges. Read on.
Picture one clamp as a pair of 1x1's, say 36" or 48" long. I used 36"
white oak for mine. Okay, now tape the pair together (so the holes
match up), and drill holes every inch or so down the length.
Countersink the holes to accept the bolt head. Still with me?
Okay, insert a 4" or 5" long bolt through each end of the sticks with
a wing nut. Bolt-heads to the bottom, wing-nuts to the top.
Spread the two sticks and slip them over one end of the panel glue-up.
Tighten the wing-nuts until they hold the panel flat, but leave them
just a bit loose.
The bolts should be placed so that they are about an inch outside of
each edge of the glue-up. In that 1" space on each side, drive a
wedge (again, I used white oak to make the wedges) between the bolt
and the edge. Tap the wedge, tighten the wing nuts, tap, tighten,
etc.
This will tighten up and apply clamping pressure to the boards.
Voila! Caul & clamp, all in one! And the sticks hold the piece up
off the bench, so the glue drips down onto newspaper.
I sealed the wood with a spitcoat of shellac and waxed the bejeebers
out of all the pieces. Glue does not stick -- but I still use wax
paper as someone else mentioned.
I made these a couple years ago out of scrap -- but you accountants
out there could figure that it cost me maybe $10 for a pair of
clamping cauls (four sticks, four bolts & nuts total), even using a
pricey wood like white oak (it ain't cheap in Florida, anyway.) But
any stable, strong hardwood will do.
I keep telling myself I'll buy some of those star knob thingies to
replace the wing nuts for more comfort, but I haven't got a round tuit
yet. Now that I think about it again, do they even make them so that
the bolt can go all the way through the knob? I'll have to check some
catalogs.
OBTW, sometimes I'll use two wedges on one end. The first one catches
against the bolt-threads, then I drive the second wedge between the
panel-edge and the first wedge -- it slides easier that way and the
wedges don't get torn up, FWIW. Actually, you don't really need a
wedge on the one edge -- any scrap of wood will do.
Make the clamping cauls, and buy the book -- I have gotten more value
out of that book than any other. It takes a given subject, like, say,
dovetails for example, and suggests 3 ways to accomplish it (including
hand-vs-power tools), depending on your tool inventory and skill
level. Really smart, useful tips.
HTH,
Paul Rad
Null
Wonderful stuff.
Ta,
Null.
"Null" <non...@domain.net> wrote in message
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Null
Go tigers!!!!!!!!!!!
Null.
"Thomas Tengowski" <tteng...@new.rr.com> wrote in message
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Don E.
The edges of each piece should be square to each other and with no gaps.
Place your boards on a flat surface and check for any gaps between each
joint. on the top and bottom of the panel. They should all come together,
dry, with no gaps. Closing gaps by clamp pressure induces stress,
contributing to warping Do not over tighten the clamps, just enough to get
a good squeeze out of glue. Over tightening induces stress and contributes
to warping also. I always use biscuts to help in alignment of the boards.
Alternating end grain on each board is really not much of a concern, the
look of the panel is more important, IMO.
You should acclimate your wood to your shop environment for a least 2-4
weeks before you use it.
Good luck.
Don E.