TS Aligner Jr - Hey Ed Bennet!
bigc...@pagesz.net
What a sweet little tool! Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.
$79.98. Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway and
within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout is .003 and
I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the miter slots - enough to
cause burning with the WW II. And I've barely scratched the surface of
what this tool can do.
What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
miter bar! What a trip to just slide the tool back and forth and SEE
EXACTLY how the blade is oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even
if I can't afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)
My PALS trunnion pusher kit showed up today too, so I've turned on the
heat in the shop and tonite I'm gonna get it right. Thanks Ed!
Chris Hubner
Peter Shull
real glad to hear about this ... I've ordered the same exact things and have hopes of putting them to use this coming weekend !!
bigc...@pagesz.net wrote in article <34BE6B...@pagesz.net>...
Jack Zucker
bigc...@pagesz.net wrote in article <34BE6B...@pagesz.net>...
> What a sweet little tool! Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.
> $79.98. Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway and
> within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout is .003 and
> I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the miter slots - enough to
> cause burning with the WW II. And I've barely scratched the surface of
> what this tool can do.
>
> What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
> miter bar! What a trip to just slide the tool back and forth and SEE
> EXACTLY how the blade is oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even
> if I can't afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)
>
d...@hrb.com
In article <34BE6B...@pagesz.net>,
bigc...@pagesz.net wrote:
>
> What a sweet little tool! Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.
> $79.98. Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway and
> within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout is .003 and
> I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the miter slots - enough to
> cause burning with the WW II. And I've barely scratched the surface of
> what this tool can do.
>
> What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
> miter bar! What a trip to just slide the tool back and forth and SEE
> EXACTLY how the blade is oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even
> if I can't afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)
>
> heat in the shop and tonite I'm gonna get it right. Thanks Ed!
>
> Chris Hubner
How did you get it for $79.98? The catalog lists it for $88.87.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Mark Flanagan
Chris,
What is a trunnion pusher kit?
Thanks
Mark
Roger Medbery
Got mine for $69 and change, its listed in the catalog for $88 and
change, the sales person said $79 and change,the new Hrtville catalog
is having a mystery discount sale which brought the price down to $69
and chage. (Wow thats a lot of change!) :)
>How did you get it for $79.98? The catalog lists it for $88.87.
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Roger Medbery
The Entertainer
Custom made entertainment centers
bullent...@mindspring.com(remove bull to e-mail)
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Michael John Hide
"Peter Shull" <PSHU...@msn.com> wrote:
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>
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>
>real glad to hear about this ... I've ordered the same exact things and
>have hopes of putting them to use this coming weekend !!
>
>
>
>bigc...@pagesz.net wrote in article <34BE6B...@pagesz.net>...
>> What a sweet little tool! Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.
>> $79.98. Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway and
>> within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout is .003 and
>> I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the miter slots - enough to
>> cause burning with the WW II. And I've barely scratched the surface of
>> what this tool can do.
>>
>> What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
>> miter bar!
What do you mean by miter bar ?? please explain ,are you referring to
to the fit of the miter gauge in the miter slot???mjh
What a trip to just slide the tool back and forth and SEE
>> EXACTLY how the blade is oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even
>> if I can't afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)
>>
>> My PALS trunnion pusher kit showed up today too, so I've turned on the
>> heat in the shop and tonite I'm gonna get it right. Thanks Ed!
>>
>> Chris Hubner
>>
>------=_NextPart_000_01BD21E7.674B6C00
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>
><html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D3 =
>color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial"><br>real glad to hear about this ... =
>I've ordered the same exact things and have hopes of putting them to use =
>this coming weekend !!<br><br><br><br><font =
>color=3D"#0000FF"><u>bigc...@pagesz.net</u><font color=3D"#000000"> =
>wrote in article <<font =
>color=3D"#0000FF"><u>34BE6B...@pagesz.net</u><font =
>color=3D"#000000">>...<br>> What a sweet little tool! =
> Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.<br>> $79.98. =
> Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway =
>and<br>> within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout =
>is .003 and<br>> I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the =
>miter slots - enough to<br>> cause burning with the WW II. And =
>I've barely scratched the surface of<br>> what this tool can =
>do.<br>> <br>> What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate =
>for the slop in the<br>> miter bar! What a trip to just slide =
>the tool back and forth and SEE<br>> EXACTLY how the blade is =
>oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even<br>> if I can't =
>afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)<br>> <br>> My =
>PALS trunnion pusher kit showed up today too, so I've turned on =
>the<br>> heat in the shop and tonite I'm gonna get it right. =
> Thanks Ed! <br>> <br>> Chris Hubner<br>> </p>
></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
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>
bigc...@pagesz.net
Mark, its a kit of parts sold by Woodcraft (about $20) and others that
attaches to your saw's trunion and allows you to shift it back and forth
for blade alignment by turning setscrews instead of using a 2x4. It
does make adjustment easier and with a dial indicator you just turn an
allen wrench to dial in the adjustment you want.
Chris Hubner
------------
Mark Flanagan wrote:
>
> Chris,
> What is a trunnion pusher kit?
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> In article <34BE6B...@pagesz.net>, bigc...@pagesz.net wrote:
>
bigc...@pagesz.net
> >> What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
> >> miter bar!
> What do you mean by miter bar ?? please explain ,are you referring to
> to the fit of the miter gauge in the miter slot???mjh
>
Yes. In the past I'd used a dowel held against the miter gauge to check
for equal clearance to the side of the blade at the front and rear, or a
dial indicator clamped on the miter bar. In both cases, slop in the
miter slot was a potential source of error. The TS Aligner Jr. puts
three precision ball bearings in a triangular configuration in the miter
slot and the bearing at the triangle's apex is easily adjustable for
zero side play.
Chris Hubner
Jack A. Zucker
Roger Medbery wrote:
>
> Got mine for $69 and change, its listed in the catalog for $88 and
> change, the sales person said $79 and change,the new Hrtville catalog
> is having a mystery discount sale which brought the price down to $69
> and chage. (Wow thats a lot of change!) :)
> >How did you get it for $79.98? The catalog lists it for $88.87.
I called them and they told me that $79.99 was the correct price and
that if they sold it to Roger for $69 it was a mistake. It will be at
the $79.99 price through April.
-Jaz
Roger Medbery
Maybe you havent got the January issue of thier catalog yet, half of
the front cover says " The Mystery Discount SALE Our Biggest Sale Of
The Year" My mystery discount was 14% which brought the price down
to $68.78. They said it would be in Tuesday, imagine my suprise when
I saw it on my doorstep after work today. Hope to give it a try by
this weekend.
Ed Bennett
Thanks Jack, I think you wrote a very accurate and concise response. Let
me elaborate on your main points:
Jack Zucker wrote:
> Sounds like the TS-Aligner Jr. is the clear winner. I was
> investigating the Align-It tool along with the TS-Aligner Jr. and it
> looks like the TS-Aligner is:
>
> 1) Cheaper (a little more than 1/2 the price of the A-Line-It)
Some of the reasons why the TS-Aligner Jr. costs so much less than the
A-Line-It:
a. We do all our own machining in our own building on our own property.
We aren't paying someone else to do this work for us and therefore do not
end up paying to cover the overhead, profits, and benifits of another
company. We also do not pay the overhead, profits and benifits of a
landlord.
b. Raw materials are purchased in bulk. We do not have a continuous
process manufacturing facility. We build units in batches, maximizing
volume discounts, facilities/space costs, machinery utilization, and
labor.
c. Market research has led me to believe that home/amateur woodworkers
generally feel that a machinery alignment system should cost $100 or less.
I designed the TS-Aligner Jr. to fit within this goal.
d. I decided that a modest profit was needed for success. We don't make
the traditional 100% profit that many other companies make. It isn't an
easy task. We make extensive use of an MBA's talent to analyze and
monitor our operating costs vs. income. You get more tool for the money
and I get higher sales volumes. In fact, the sales volumes have been so
high that we spent all of 1997 filling backorders! We're finally
beginning to get caught up on the backlog (by increasing our manufacturing
capacity and eliminating time consuming operations with new designs).
e. We have the best workers in town! I can't afford to pay anyone for low
productivity work no matter how cheap they come. So, I contract the best
workers and pay them more than anyone else in town. These are the smart
people that figure out how to get more work done in less time. They often
surprise me with things I never would have thought of!
> 2) More versatile (i.e. Works for more applications / machines)
We did our market research *before* designing the Jr. In fact, much of
the input came from this newsgroup. I wanted to know what features were
most desired and how much the tool should cost. I knew that if I could
design to these parameters, then the product would be a success.
It has always been very clear to me that an alignment tool should provide
functionality that can not be reproduced in the average woodworking shop.
After all, if you could make it yourself then you wouldn't need to buy it
from me! So, precision machined features like the Angle Attachment Gage
(for accurately measuring vertical angles) and three bearing miter slot
guidance were mandatory. These and other features are not possible on
your average home-made "dial indicator on a stick" or on the A-Line-It
(which is not much more than a dial indicator on a very nice, fancy,
red-anodized aluminum stick).
> 3) Sturdier with a more substantial base
When you're trying to make measurements with a dial indicator, fixtures
that wiggle, wobble, and rock just don't work. The fixturing must be
rigid, stable, and move very smoothly. Otherwise, the needle just jitters
back and forth and you can't make any useful measurements. People that
use a dial indicator on a stick clamped to the miter gauge know exactly
what I'm talking about.
> 4) Easier to use
I run a pretty lean and mean operation. There's not a lot of profit
available to cover calls for technical support. It makes a lot more sense
to invest up front in an easy to use design and a very clear and concise
manual than to take phone calls from people asking the same questions over
and over. We print up a fresh set of manuals with every batch of Aligners
that we make so that you are sure to get the latest updates. You can also
download the latest version of the manual from our web site. It's not
just a few photocopied pages stapled together (al-la A-Line-It). It's
currently 40 pages long and includes many detailed photos and drawings
(over 4 MB PDF file)!
----------
Ed Bennett
e...@primenet.com
Visit my web page: http://www.primenet.com/~ejb
Newbie
>
>d. I decided that a modest profit was needed for success. We don't make
>the traditional 100% profit that many other companies make.
Ed Bennett
Newbie wrote:
>
> Perhaps you meant to say 100% markup?
>
I'm not sure I understand. Unless, of course, you thought I was talking
about "net" profit. I would say that gross profit, gross margin, and
"markup" are all synonymous terms.
How about some marketing insight!
It's very common in the retail woodworking market for companies to sell
something for twice what they pay for it (their cost). The computer
industry hasn't seen those sorts of margins for many many years. However,
most woodworking catalog sales companies ("catalogers") won't even
consider a product that doesn't give them at least 100% gross profit.
Hartville Tool is very different on that point. They regularly sell the
Jr. for less than list price, meaning that they accept less than 100%
gross margin.
In general, if a manufacturer sells through a high margin distribution
channel (like the woodworking catalogers), they set the list price to be a
multiple of their cost (usually about 3X). So, if a product costs $50 to
manufacture, then the list price would be set at $150 and the distributor
price would be set at $75. This gives the manufacturer a 50% margin.
Many products use a much higher multiplier. For example, if I were
manufacturing the A-Line-It system, the current list price of $149 would
represent about a 6X multiplier and a distributor price of $74.50. This
would yield almost 200% gross profit for me. If I had someone else
manufacturing it for me, it would be about a 3X multiplier which would
yield almost 50% gross profit.
But, high gross profit doesn't necessarily translate into a successful
product. Most people don't want to pay $149 for something that they can
easily make in their own shop for about $20 (dial indicator and a stick).
Some will pay that price for a number of valid reasons but most won't.
The lowest possible list price would be $59.95 which is a 2.4X multiplier.
Even though this yields only 20% gross margin (distributor price of
$29.98), the product is still way over priced for the market. More people
would buy it but the sales volumes would still be too low and I would
consider the product "non-viable".
The TS-Aligner Jr. list price has been running just slightly over a 2X
multiplier because I believe that the price point (under $100) and feature
set is vital. So, when I sell it to a cataloger at 50% of list price,
there's not much left over. But, I make up for it in volume because
people can easily see that the Jr. delivers a lot of functionality that
they can not replicate on their own. The strategy has definitely paid
off. I've had to increase my manufacturing capacity nearly 10 fold this
year. It's been more than a year since I've had even a single excess unit
in inventory. Each and every batch has been sold long before it was
finished (and we run two full time shifts!).
Paul Ephron
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:05:19 -0500, bigc...@pagesz.net wrote:
>What a sweet little tool! Ordered from Hartville Monday, arrived today.
>$79.98. Too cold to work in the shop today but assembled it anyway and
>within 10 minutes of opening the box I KNOW my blade runout is .003 and
>I KNOW my blade is .005 out of parallel with the miter slots - enough to
>cause burning with the WW II. And I've barely scratched the surface of
>what this tool can do.
>
>What a pleasure not to have to try to compensate for the slop in the
>miter bar! What a trip to just slide the tool back and forth and SEE
>EXACTLY how the blade is oriented to the slot! And it's RED too so even
>if I can't afford that new Dodge pickup, I can still gloat! :)
>
>My PALS trunnion pusher kit showed up today too, so I've turned on the
>heat in the shop and tonite I'm gonna get it right. Thanks Ed!
>
>Chris Hubner
Any opinions on whether this tool would be worth buying for use on a
portable table saw. I have the Makita 8 1/4" portable, and do me being
in the military, and moving quite often, I can't really get a nice
saw. But if something can help me tune it up, to the best it can
perform, that would be a nice addition. THanks.