Which gauges for TS alignment ?
Matt Zach
for $69.00, when I looked at the reviews and found that it is a cheaply
made plastic device that many were not too impressed with. What should I
use to calibrate my tablesaw? I hear of some of you folks getting
readings to the thousandths of a inch. Can someone point me to exactly
what I need to accomplish this?
Thanks.
Matt
Mike Iglesias
Check this site:
--
Mike Iglesias Email: igle...@draco.acs.uci.edu
University of California, Irvine phone: 949-824-6926
Network & Academic Computing Services FAX: 949-824-2069
Bestest Handsander
some mag just do a review of those things. I seem to recall seeing
something on the newstand.
"Mike Iglesias" <igle...@draco.acs.uci.edu> wrote in message
news:bursku$sdb$1...@news.service.uci.edu...
George Berlinger
alignment tools........I have the T.S.Aligner JR.........works great.....
"Bestest Handsander" <no...@u.biz> wrote in message
news:_9WdnSwytf7...@aros.net...
Andrew Barss
Get the TS Aligner Jr., available at:
It's an excellent piece of quipment, and Ed Bennett's customer support is
outstanding.
-- Andy Barss
Mike in Mystic
"Andrew Barss" <ba...@ptah.u.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:burup3$gn3$1...@oasis.ccit.arizona.edu...
Bob S.
Bob S.
Matt Zach
LOL ... you guys have convinced me, with such a unanimous vote. I will order
one immediately.
Thanks for your help.
Matt
way...@earthlink.net
> some mag just do a review of those things. I seem to recall seeing
> something on the newstand.
Wood magazine did, sometime this summer I believe. I don't know the
exact issue, but Mastergauge came out tops, with TS-aligner second.
Mastergauge is a bit expensive, but I bought one and it has paid for
itself.
Wayne
Unisaw A100
>Just in case you didn't get the message....... TS-Aligner Jr !!!
Ditto what Bahb said.
UA100
Dave
I think you won't regret it.
"Matt Zach" <matt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:40118918...@earthlink.net...
Larry Jaques
brought forth from the murky depths:
Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions
(and sometimes a video) are included.
Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick
safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need
push-sticks anyway), and add a $10 dial indicator. Run a
bolt through the featherboard, mount the indicator, and set
your blade to the table. Then check alignment to the fence,
check for 90° and 45° angles, etc.
Your library should have some table saw tuning books by
Kelly Mehler, Jim Tolpin, Kenneth Burton, etc.
Understocked library? These can be had through WoodWorker's
Book Club. Their special is 3 free books, buy one, and pay
shipping. Total cost for 4 books: $17.98 (Such a deal!)
http://woodworkersbookclub.com/
Disclaimer: No business affiliation but I'm a book club member.
Or check the sites listed here:
http://www.google.com/search?q=table+saw+tune-up
------------------------------------------------------
No matter how hard you try, you cannot baptize a cat.
----------------------------
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
---------------------------------------------------
Fly-by-Night CC
Unisaw A100 <Unisa...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
Speaking of TS-Ajr...
We haven't heard from Ed B. since shortly after that long running
accuracy "discussion" with Steve Strickland, the puzzle and telescope
man. I wonder if they both just keeled over after that... both spent,
out of breath, legs wobbly and weakened.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
Offering a shim for the Porter-Cable 557 type 2 fence design.
<http://www.flybynightcoppercompany.com>
<http://www.easystreet.com/~onlnlowe/index.html>
charlie b
A-freakin-men!
charlie b
Unisaw A100
>Speaking of TS-Ajr...
>We haven't heard from Ed B. since shortly after that long running
>accuracy "discussion" with Steve Strickland, the puzzle and telescope
>man.
Ed had a brief walk on/guest appearance here after WOOD
Magazine published the comparison of the different machinery
alignment aids. I remember him being his "usual self".
Later I saw a letter to the editor at WOOD from Ed. The
tone of that letter was way professional and not like the Ed
we've come to know and love.
>I wonder if they both just keeled over after that... both spent,
>out of breath, legs wobbly and weakened.
Or maybe neither has been able to chew through their straps.
Just say (tmPL), my idea of Hell would be to spend eternity
sharing a room with those two.
UA100
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
(way...@earthlink.net) wrote:
>Wood magazine did, sometime this summer I believe. I don't know the
>exact issue, but Mastergauge came out tops, with TS-aligner second.
>Mastergauge is a bit expensive, but I bought one and it has paid for
>itself.
FWIW, I align my tools with a Starrett combination square, a sharpie,
and some feeler gauges.
For instance, to do a miter slot to blade check, I do the following:
1. Mark a tooth with the Sharpie.
2. With the square's black edge sitting in the slot, adjust the square
blade until it hits the tooth.
3. Rotate the same tooth to the back, slide the square down, and check
the distance between the same tooth and the end of the square blade
with the feeler gauges. If the tooth is closer and hits the square,
readjust the square blade, rotate the saw blade forward, and measure
that gap.
4. Adjust the table / trunion and measure again.
Can the expensive jigs get more accurate? Maybe. <G> All I know is
that I learned this technique at a local school, it's in several
books, and seems damn close enough for precision woodworking. None of
the pros I've ever dealt with bother with anything else.
If I ever figure out I'm missing something, I'd be more than willing
to drop big bucks on special jigs. I have not seen evidence that
those jigs improve the _cut_, except for folks who don't know how to
do the same alignment with tools they already own.
Barry
Unisaw A100
>I have not seen evidence that those jigs improve the _cut_,
>except for folks who don't know how to do the same
>alignment with tools they already own.
Nicely played little turdlette you've pinched off there
B a r r y .
UA100
charlie b
> FWIW, I align my tools with a Starrett combination square, a sharpie,
> and some feeler gauges.
>
snip
>
> Can the expensive jigs get more accurate? Maybe. <G> All I know is
> that I learned this technique at a local school, it's in several
> books, and seems damn close enough for precision woodworking. None of
> the pros I've ever dealt with bother with anything else.
>
> If I ever figure out I'm missing something, I'd be more than willing
> to drop big bucks on special jigs. I have not seen evidence that
> those jigs improve the _cut_, except for folks who don't know how to
> do the same alignment with tools they already own.
>
> Barry
Starrett doesn't make inexpensive products either. Their combination
square can set you back a chunk of change too. For the extra money
on the TS-Aligner Junior Deluxe - the full name of the tool in
question - you get a) convenience b) a well thought out, very well
made measuring and set up tool that you can use for a host of other
set ups. It also comes with instructions for how to use it for
various set up work - providing info on how to for those of us who
who don't or didn't have the benefit of a knowledgable mentor.
One advantage it has over the method you described is that, with
the dial gauge, you can see the effect (or is it affect) of the
adjustment you're making as you make it. A square and feeler
gauge won't.
And checking run out on the arbor or on a drill press or ...
But I agree that there are lots of expensive super deluxe whip-zam
devices on the market that most have no real need for.
charlie b
Larry Bud
Ditto this.
Mark
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions
> (and sometimes a video) are included.
>
> Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick
> safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need
> push-sticks anyway), and add a $10 dial indicator. Run a
> bolt through the featherboard, mount the indicator, and set
> your blade to the table. Then check alignment to the fence,
> check for 90° and 45° angles, etc.
I'm with you, Larry.
If more people had some imagination they wouldn't need all
the fancy tools.
For the price of the Jr setup I could get Starrett
components and mount them to my miter slide. I would also
have one helluva lot more versatile tool.
For a BUNCH less I could go to Harbor Freight, spend a
helluva lot less on the same setup and have just as
versatile tool.
Folks, your not getting a Starrett or Brown and Sharpe
indicator with the TS-Aligner, your getting a Harbor Freight
quality indicator. Look at the 90 degree fitting on the web
page, it's not at 90 degrees.
You could do better gluing/ epoxying a bent nail to a cheap
indicator plunger.
But hey, it's your money. Just don't brag about being ripped
off.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart.
(S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure
ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
charlie b
>
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >
> > Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions
> > (and sometimes a video) are included.
> >
> > Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick
> > safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need
> > push-sticks anyway), and add a $10 dial indicator. Run a
> > bolt through the featherboard, mount the indicator, and set
> > your blade to the table. Then check alignment to the fence,
> > check for 90° and 45° angles, etc.
>
Got any slop between your miter slot and the bar they provide
for it? If so are you checking that the blade is parallel
to the miter slot or the slop in the bar?
The TS-Aligner has three bearing that ride in the miter slot,
two fixed and one adjustable left/right. Eliminates ALL the
slop. It can be configured for other set up functions and
the dial gauge provided ain't no cheopo.
> I'm with you, Larry.
>
> If more people had some imagination they wouldn't need all
> the fancy tools.
>
I need all my imagination for coming up with furniture ideas
and how to make them. Set ups are not my favorite thing
to do and making tools in order to do the set ups is a
waste of time - for me.
> For the price of the Jr setup I could get Starrett
> components and mount them to my miter slide. I would also
> have one helluva lot more versatile tool.
>
About that slop thing?
I seriously doubt that you'd have one helluva a lot more
versative tool. Check out the TS-Aligner info a bit more.
> For a BUNCH less I could go to Harbor Freight, spend a
> helluva lot less on the same setup and have just as
> versatile tool.
>
Oh Ed's gonna get you now. I assure you that the
comparison would be more like comparing a craftsman
contractor's saw to a Unisaw or PM66 - with a sliding
table. Make that a Felder.
> Folks, your not getting a Starrett or Brown and Sharpe
> indicator with the TS-Aligner, your getting a Harbor Freight
> quality indicator. Look at the 90 degree fitting on the web
> page, it's not at 90 degrees.
>
> You could do better gluing/ epoxying a bent nail to a cheap
> indicator plunger.
>
Sometime in the near future I'm sure Ed Bennett's going to
respond to your uniformed description of his fine product.
> But hey, it's your money. Just don't brag about being ripped
> off.
> >
I think the responses have been unanimous - the TS-Aligner
is a great set up tool at a fair price for what it does
and how it does it. I must've missed the post by a
dissatisfied customer.
charlie b
Mark
dovetailed slide mounted to a base. It will ride in any sized slot, and
it's square vertically to .001. Maybe I'll post a couple pics in the
binaries. Mark
Jerry Gilreath
sliding t square and a piece of perfectly flat acrylic 4" x 10" with a 5/8"
hole dead on center. Acrylic was free, I have a good square already along
with the bit to drill the hole. Although it could be done with the blade on
I'm sure. I set the fence the same way, ran a board, and measured with three
different steel rules, all accurate with each other. Results were dead on
accurate. I then borrowed my neighbors Junior, and guess what? The end
result was within .003. I don't think that's too bad. As a matter of fact,
it's livable. It netted a complete kitchen, bedroom suite, dressing room
furniture...the list goes on. Just my nickel's worth, take it as it is. BTW,
my shop is an all Ridgid shop, with an occasional Craftsman, or Crapsman,
tool thrown in for good measure! ;-)
--
"Cartoons don't have any deep meaning.
They're just stupid drawings that give you a cheap laugh."
Homer Simpson
Jerry© The Phoneman®
"Mark" <REM_TO_SE...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:eHzQb.28027$DE.1...@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
Bruce
charlie b <char...@accesscom.com> wrote:
> Got any slop between your miter slot and the bar they provide
> for it? If so are you checking that the blade is parallel
> to the miter slot or the slop in the bar?
Got any slop between your miter slot and you miter gauge? I've never seen
one that didn't. This fascination with thousandths of an inch when working
with wood is laughable. An engineer analyzes the problem and determines a
reasonable degree of accuracy necessary in his calculations and doesn't
waste time or energy or money to achieve unnecessary accuracy.
I do appreciate that it is fun and "neato", but lets recognize that that is
all it is. I once calculated pi to over 10,000 digits. It was fun but
completely unnecessary. I could calculate the diameter of the universe to
less than an inch using pi with just 30 decimal places.
Larry Jaques
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Mark wrote:
>>
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions
>> > (and sometimes a video) are included.
>> >
>> > Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick
>> > safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need
>> > push-sticks anyway), and add a $10 dial indicator. Run a
>> > bolt through the featherboard, mount the indicator, and set
>> > your blade to the table. Then check alignment to the fence,
>> > check for 90° and 45° angles, etc.
>>
>
> Got any slop between your miter slot and the bar they provide
It can be (somewhat) adjusted out with the holddown bolt. ;)
>> I'm with you, Larry.
>>
>> If more people had some imagination they wouldn't need all
>> the fancy tools.
Hey, who said that?
> I need all my imagination for coming up with furniture ideas
> and how to make them. Set ups are not my favorite thing
> to do and making tools in order to do the set ups is a
> waste of time - for me.
One could also simply cut a piece of wood, grab their dial
calipers,and check variation front to back. That's what I
did to originally set up Dina's old cast arn fence to within
a couple thou. Paper shims aren't fancy but they do the job.
>> For the price of the Jr setup I could get Starrett
>> components and mount them to my miter slide. I would also
>> have one helluva lot more versatile tool.
>>
>
> About that slop thing?
Now that I think about it, the spring-loaded indicator should
pretty much take care of that. Yes, the TSA would be quite a
bit nicer, but not $150 nicer to me. (Them's -crowbar- figgers,
son!)
>> Folks, your not getting a Starrett or Brown and Sharpe
>> indicator with the TS-Aligner, your getting a Harbor Freight
>> quality indicator. Look at the 90 degree fitting on the web
>> page, it's not at 90 degrees.
So what if it isn't? You're making -relative- measurements, not
looking for interference fits in tenths here. (Within an RCH
is fine with me. You?) You could do just as well with a bar and
a set of feeler gauges IF you know what to look for and how to
set it up.
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* Blessed are those who can * Humorous T-shirts Online
* laugh at themselves, for they * Comprehensive Website Dev.
* shall never cease to be amused * http://www.diversify.com
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Silvan
> Folks with money usually buy a TS-Aligner. Instructions
> (and sometimes a video) are included.
>
> Bottom feeders go to Harbor Freight, buy the $10 push-stick
> safety kit (with the featherboard in it, and you need
I checked the web site. Good gods man, $140 for that thing? Hell, I have
combinations of power tools that don't add up to that much.
I guess that makes me a bottom feeder.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <dmmc...@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
RB
While there may be slop between the miter gauge and the miter slot there
is little to none between the slot and the TS-Aligner. Further there is
none measurable between a good fence and the blade. The benefit of the
TS-Aligner to me is that with it I can set my blade very accurately with
respect to the miter slot and therefore my fence.
I can work to 0.001 with my setup after aligning with the TS-Aligner.
(Humidity changes not considered.)
Much of good woodworking, if thoroughly thought out, is based more on
precision than accuracy.
RB
Bruce
RB <R...@spamfree.com> wrote:
>While there may be slop between the miter gauge and the miter slot there
>is little to none between the slot and the TS-Aligner.
I understand this.
>none measurable between a good fence and the blade. The benefit of the
>TS-Aligner to me is that with it I can set my blade very accurately with
>respect to the miter slot and therefore my fence.
I realize that. If one expects 0.001 accuracy with a miter gauge,
obviously they are whacked.
>I can work to 0.001 with my setup after aligning with the TS-Aligner.
>(Humidity changes not considered.)
As can I with a dial indicator clamped to my miter gauge and steady
pressure applied to the miter gauge to keep it to one side of the slot,
which is all the mechanism in the TS Aligner does.
>Much of good woodworking, if thoroughly thought out, is based more on
>precision than accuracy.
I don't see that you addressed my larger question about the necessity of
having the fence and the blade parallel to 0.001" Especially in light of
the fact that most manufactururers recommend a 1/64" or 0.0156" heel in the
fence.
Mark Jerde
<snip>
> FWIW, I align my tools with a Starrett combination square, a sharpie,
> and some feeler gauges.
<snip>
> I have not seen evidence that
> those jigs improve the _cut_, except for folks who don't know how to
> do the same alignment with tools they already own.
I was on my 2nd tablesaw (bench to contractor) before I had any feeler
gages. I still don't have a Starrett. ;-) Might as well get the Normite
aligner instead of the Neander, right? <g>
-- Mark
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<mark....@verizon.no.spam.net> wrote:
>
>I was on my 2nd tablesaw (bench to contractor) before I had any feeler
>gages. I still don't have a Starrett. ;-) Might as well get the Normite
>aligner instead of the Neander, right? <g>
I'd like to point out that the combination square doesn't even have to
be a GOOD one. <G> Just about any combination square that holds it's
blade tight will do fine, it dosen't have to be square. In fact, you
can perform the same technique with two wood scraps and two screws.
In truth, even the feeler gauges are optional. If you don't have a
Sharpie, a dot of masking tape, nail polish, or pencil will also work.
All you're trying to do is ensure that the miter slot is parallel to
the blade. You do this by ensuring that one tooth is the same
distance from the slot at the front of the blade's rotation, and again
at the back.
FWIW, I touch my $65 Starrett square every time I make a 90 or 45
degree mark, every time I adjust the cutting height of a tool, every
time I set a blade or fence back to 90, etc...
While a high-end blade alignment tool will probably do a wonderful
job, how often will you really use it?
I feel that these devices, as accurate as they are, are often over
hyped by magazines and at woodworking shows. They seem to be a boon
for someone who is actually comparing out of the box specs, as a
reviewer would need to do. The reviewer would also need to provide
actual numbers for comparison, which I really don't need.
If anyone wishes to explain to me what I'm missing, I'm all ears! <G>
Barry
BRuce
with the demand to bother readin a news group. I have the Jr and
ordered the upgrade to Deluxe a while back but am still waiting, got an
email from him that he is way behind and trying to catch up.
I have the Jr and use it where I can and it saves time for me. there is
no guess work about it being square and accurate as I would have with a
home made jig. I have medium priced tools that can be made to work
better than "out of the box" by using a setup tool.
money well spent.
BRuce
charlie b wrote:
--
---
BRuce
Lawrence Wasserman
Matt Zach <matt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I was getting ready to order the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar from Amazon
>for $69.00, when I looked at the reviews and found that it is a cheaply
>made plastic device that many were not too impressed with. What should I
>use to calibrate my tablesaw? I hear of some of you folks getting
>readings to the thousandths of a inch. Can someone point me to exactly
>what I need to accomplish this?
>Thanks.
>Matt
>
Imported dial indicators and so cheap nowadays it's hard to argue not
to have one for the $10-15 or so they cost, but really, to set up a
tablesaw you need nothing more than a good combination square. I use a
DI myself but got equally good results when I only used the combo
square in he past. Some people get good results just using a piece of
wood clamped to the miter gauge. See any good tablesaw book for details,
I like Kelly Mehlers book.
Now, if you really need to know to "how many thousandths" your saw is
adjusted, you will need the indicator and some type of fixture to
hold it, either shop made or something like the TS Aligner by Ed
Bennet. But if you just want to set up your saw to cut wood, you don't
really need to know the numbers.
FWIW, I don't own one myself, but the TS Aligner Jr is probably one of
the better buys if you want to purchase something.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
lwas...@charm.net
RB
certainly shouldn't have negative heel but being parallel (or 0.001
divergent) is fine for me. Along with this statement is the one that
says use feather boards and/or something like a RipStrate.
RB
George
If you - horrors - don't use a guard for your cuts, it's a good idea.
"RB" <R...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
news:4015EE71...@spamfree.com...
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>"RB" <R...@spamfree.com> wrote in message
>news:4015EE71...@spamfree.com...
>> I don't see the need for the blade and fence to diverge by 1/64".
The idea is to get the already cut edge away from the rising side of
the blade, preventing the board from being lifted and kicked back.
Barry
Unisaw A100
>It's an anti-kickback measure from the days before splitters and pawls.
How many decades ago was this?
UA100
Unisaw A100
>the blade, preventing the board from being lifted and kicked back.
And so what about the other side of the kerf, the one
that's being pushed (by the operator) against the side
of the blade?
UA100
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote:
My relatively uneducated guess would be that the other side of the
blade has nothing to hold the wood against the blade. As I
understand it, the lift is only part one of a kick back. Part deux is
trapping the lifted / turned board between the fence and the rising
blade, giving more for the blade to grab.
We all know what happens next! <G>
Barry
Unisaw A100
>blade has nothing to hold the wood against the blade.
But it does. The operator is holding the wood against the
fence. The fence is out one end to the next (1) by 1/64th.
By holding the wood against the fence the operator has
unwittingly set himself up to have the wood pressed against
the blade on the "non-fence" side of the cut. All this is
going on with a fence purposely mis-aligned? (question mark
used to emphasize why anyone would do something so foolish)
Anyone want to check my math on this?
>As I understand it, the lift is only part one of a kick back. Part deux is
>trapping the lifted / turned board between the fence and the rising
>blade, giving more for the blade to grab.
And by forcing the wood against the blade (from either side
of the kerf) we have set Part one into motion.
>We all know what happens next! <G>
Purple?
(1) I hope it's 1/64" over the length of the fence and not
over the length of the exposed portion of the blade. "That"
would be really stoopid.
Just say (tmPL), if you are that concerned about a kick back
then do yourself a favor and install/make a splitter. If
that doesn't keep your undies dry then consider a short
fence for rip cuts.
UA100
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote:
>Just say (tmPL), if you are that concerned about a kick back
>then do yourself a favor and install/make a splitter. If
>that doesn't keep your undies dry then consider a short
>fence for rip cuts.
>
>UA100
I agree. Note that I didn't say I did it, only what the common
thinking was. I also believe they're talking the length of the fence.
I tune my fences with wood. It's simple and it works for me.
Starting with the fence exactly parallel to the miter slot, I rip a
board. I then check the board and waste for burn and blade marks and
adjust accordingly.
Works for me, others have other methods.
Biesemeyer says they'll have a snap-in splitter for my saw "soon", I
can't stand the stock version.
Barry
George
and anyone reaching far enough to push the offcut into the back of the blade
would be a fool, I don't think there's cause for alarm.
Just think of it as creating a shorter blade. The wood does exit at the
rear in any case, without the dire effects you imply.
I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table
parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.
"Unisaw A100" <Unisa...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:211e10t6k0ngp2gk3...@4ax.com...
Jeffrey Thunder
"George" <someon...@microsoft.com> top posts:
> If it didn't work, I guess it would be debatable. Since it does, and has,
> and anyone reaching far enough to push the offcut into the back of the blade
> would be a fool, I don't think there's cause for alarm.
That's not what Unisaw is saying.
> Just think of it as creating a shorter blade. The wood does exit at the
> rear in any case, without the dire effects you imply.
There certainly will be undesirable effects if the fence is splayed out
too much (and I'd say 1/64th is close to too much).
> I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table
> parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.
Really? Ever look closely at the waste side of the cut and see burn
marks or saw marks arcing upwards? That indicates the rear of the
blade was contacting the wood, as it certainly will in the situation
Unisaw is speaking of.
> "Unisaw A100" <Unisa...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:211e10t6k0ngp2gk3...@4ax.com...
>> B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>> >My relatively uneducated guess would be that the other side of the
>> >blade has nothing to hold the wood against the blade.
>>
>> But it does. The operator is holding the wood against the
>> fence. The fence is out one end to the next (1) by 1/64th.
>> By holding the wood against the fence the operator has
>> unwittingly set himself up to have the wood pressed against
>> the blade on the "non-fence" side of the cut. All this is
>> going on with a fence purposely mis-aligned? (question mark
>> used to emphasize why anyone would do something so foolish)
>> Anyone want to check my math on this?
Geezus, not me! I need to drop my pants just to count to eleven. :)
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu
George
touch the blade after it's cut because the edges of the teeth are proud of
the surface? Seems everyone has the fence "splayed" after all.
Though there is always a number who can't or won't think, any of you folks
who can push a straight board up against another and make one end climb away
_without a fulcrum_ get back to me.
NB: I won't allow you to be stupid and push the corner of the board.
"Jeffrey Thunder" <jthu...@myoffice.niu.edu> wrote in message
news:bv8dkk$aum$1...@news.math.niu.edu...
Bridger
<someon...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>If the fence is clear of the blade? Do you realize that the piece does not
>touch the blade after it's cut because the edges of the teeth are proud of
>the surface?
it ain't the body of the blade that's gonna bite ya- it's the teeth on
the backside of the cut- those ones that aren't supposed to be cutting
at all, the ones rising up out of the saw with all of the vengeance of
that 3HP TEFC 220V power behind them and curling around and spitting
straight at your face.
you really don't want those teeth rubbing on *either* side of the cut.
splitters, riving knife, whatever- use it. and keep the blade aligned
with the fence. dead parallel is my preference, but heel it out a few
thou if it tickles you. just never let it pinch.
>Seems everyone has the fence "splayed" after all.
seems you didn't understand the thread too well.
>
>Though there is always a number who can't or won't think, any of you folks
>who can push a straight board up against another and make one end climb away
>_without a fulcrum_ get back to me.
huh?
George
Glad you and I concur.
Maybe you should re-read the thread and decide who you want to chide.
"Bridger" <nos...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:l3nf10h6km880q1h1...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:24:07 -0500, "George"
>
>
charlie b
>
> If the fence is clear of the blade? Do you realize that the piece does not
> touch the blade after it's cut because the edges of the teeth are proud of
> the surface? Seems everyone has the fence "splayed" after all.
>
Really? I've ripped wood that wishboned out behind the blade and I've
ripped wood that "X"ed behind the blade. I've ripped wood that one
side
of the cut curled up and some that curled down. Even though you may
start with a nice flat board with straight edges and square corners,
there can be all kinds of locked up stresses and strains in it which
can be released when ripped. The results can be quite surprising.
I've got a riving knife that wraps around the back top quarter of the
blade as insurance. I often use the Draw-Tite magnetic hold downs/
hold ins as well and a GRRRIPPER for short pieces or narrow strip
ripping.
> Though there is always a number who can't or won't think, any of you folks
> who can push a straight board up against another and make one end climb away
> _without a fulcrum_ get back to me.
>
I really hope Jason gets the wood-workers.com site back up. I had
a whole section on all the factors I could think of that can
contribute
to a kickback and then what can be done to minimize the likelyhood
of that happening. Some of the factors/parameters are not very
obvious - until one of them makes you aware - nothing like a scar
to remind one of things not to ever do again.
An example of a less than obvious kickback type - earlier someone
posted a message about his push stick kicking back into the palm
of his hand. It had sharp corners at the top - a quick and dirty
scrap push stick. Those corners lead to six or eight stitches.
If the handle had been big and nicely rounded he might have
had a bruised, sore hand - but no blood loss or possible nerve
damage.
> NB: I won't allow you to be stupid and push the corner of the board.
>
I guess you meant to say "For purposes of this discussion, I won't
allow you to be stupid ...". I reserve the right to be as stupid
as I choose to be and nobody's gonna take that god-given,
constitutional right away from ME! :) <-- winking emoticon to
indicate the writer is just kidding.
charlie b
Unisaw A100
>If it didn't work, I guess it would be debatable. Since it does, and has,
>and anyone reaching far enough to push the offcut into the back of the blade
>would be a fool, I don't think there's cause for alarm.
I think you've misread the point I was making. Here's the
set up.
Table saw has fence out of parallel to the blade by 1/64"
over it's length.
The operator is pushing a piece of wood against the fence
(from the operator's side) and into the whirring blade.
As the wood passes the blade it is still being held against
the fence (from the operator's side) and will be held
against the fence for the entire cut.
When the wood exits the back side of the whirring blade the
freshly cut edge to the fence side is indeed not rubbing
against the teeth of the blade.
The other side of the kerf, the side without the fence, is
now rubbing against the teeth.
I'm unsure how else to say it without the aid of chalk.
>I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table
>parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.
If you are running wood between a turning router bit and a
fence you've either got balls the size of church bells or
the brain of a gnat.
UA100
Tom Watson
wrote:
>I was getting ready to order the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar from Amazon
>for $69.00, when I looked at the reviews and found that it is a cheaply
>made plastic device that many were not too impressed with. What should I
>use to calibrate my tablesaw? I hear of some of you folks getting
>readings to the thousandths of a inch. Can someone point me to exactly
>what I need to accomplish this?
>Thanks.
>Matt
I use a Starrett Dial Indicator on a Magnetic Base to set up the
TableSaur, as well as all the other crap that thinks that it needs to
be set up proper-like.
It has it's own way of describing the world, which I think is in
thousands, but I freely translate them into the tradtional RCH or my
current standard, "A Gnat's Ass", "A Little Less Than A Gnat's Ass",
or, "A Little More Than A Gnat's Ass".
The "AGA" standard has served me well and acknowledges the fact that
wood doesn't think in thousands of an inch but in "Gnat's Asses".
I've been working on an aftermarket overlay for the Starrett that will
provide the more useful readout in "GA's" but that is still in the
developmentally challenged state.
I look forward to completing this work in the Spring, as the shop is
far too cold for this sort of thing right now and the dial indicator
is reading in "FGA's" (Frozen Gnats Asses) which are something smaller
than "GA's", owing to the shrinkage of the associated members, which I
am sure that you are acquainted with, as it is a common problem.
I've been working on an Excel based graphing solution that will give a
readout of "AGA" v. "FGA", with a time/temperature curve giving the
probable solution - but this work is going slowly.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret)
Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
Tom M.
> I was getting ready to order the MasterGage SB-1 SuperBar from Amazon
> for $69.00, when I looked at the reviews and found that it is a cheaply
> made plastic device that many were not too impressed with. What should I
> use to calibrate my tablesaw? I hear of some of you folks getting
> readings to the thousandths of a inch. Can someone point me to exactly
> what I need to accomplish this?
> Thanks.
> Matt
I use the Harbor Freight dial indicator (#623-0VGA) and it works fine.
I also have the HF magnetic base (#5645-0VGA) which I mount the
indicator on to check the arbor, flange, and blade runout. I mount the
dial indicator to a big 'L' bracket and clamp it to my miter guage to
check the miter slot-to-blade, miter slot-to-fence alignment. Both the
indicator and base work great, and they're currently on sale at the
local HF for $6.99 each. I think the regular price is about $15 or so
for each item.
Tom
Mark
charlie b wrote:
> The TS-Aligner has three bearing that ride in the miter slot,
> two fixed and one adjustable left/right. Eliminates ALL the
> slop. It can be configured for other set up functions and
> the dial gauge provided ain't no cheopo.
Charlie,
You don't get much of an indicator for $18 retail.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart.
(S. Clemens, A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure
ends the suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
George
"Unisaw A100" <Unisa...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aufg109q6rlm5s7nl...@4ax.com...
>
> Table saw has fence out of parallel to the blade by 1/64"
> over it's length.
>
> The operator is pushing a piece of wood against the fence
> (from the operator's side) and into the whirring blade.
>
> As the wood passes the blade it is still being held against
> the fence (from the operator's side) and will be held
> against the fence for the entire cut.
WRONG - The wood is held tightly against the fence prior to the cut, and
the direction of feed is parallel to the blade. If you look at the wood,
it's actually free of the fence, where it _might pinch and kick back_ off
the blade.
> When the wood exits the back side of the whirring blade the
> freshly cut edge to the fence side is indeed not rubbing
> against the teeth of the blade.
>
> The other side of the kerf, the side without the fence, is
> now rubbing against the teeth.
>
Only if YOU have the brains of a gnat and and reach behind the blade. The
rest of us read the books - the same ones that tell of a pinch relief (did
you read the instructions for the Jet-Lock on your UA100?) - and know that
no pressure is ever applied after the cut. The piece unrestrained.
Now, in a non-nit-picking world, if it gets touched by a tooth, it has room
and the tendency to to move laterally out of the way. If you provide
relief on the fence side, within limits, the same condition pertains to the
dimension piece.
> I'm unsure how else to say it without the aid of chalk.
>
You could try using your eyes to observe what's happening at your saw.
> >I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table
> >parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.
>
> If you are running wood between a turning router bit and a
> fence you've either got balls the size of church bells or
> the brain of a gnat.
>
Or you're not through-cutting?
I can see you missed that, even though it was explicitly stated - there is
geometrically only one point which defines the width of a piece passing
between a cutting object and a fixed obstacle. With the router, it's the
easily observed point of tangency, which is why it's a clear analogy, with
the tablesaw, it is the point at which the leading tip of the blade exits
the wood - unless you're foolish enough to allow it to pinch between the
fence and the rising teeth thereafter....
> UA100
Swingman
on "the list", dude. Now go back to your bench and practice a little
veneration and homage.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 1/23/04
"George" wrote in message
Jim Wilson
> WRONG - The wood is held tightly against the fence prior to the cut, and
> the direction of feed is parallel to the blade. If you look at the wood,
> it's actually free of the fence, where it _might pinch and kick back_ off
> the blade.
George, you're not making sense. It doesn't happen the way you describe
it -- unless your fence is bent or if you don't use it to guide the
workpiece. Otherwise, if the wood doesn't bend when cut (yeah, big if),
then the work stays against the fence for its entire length. The gap
occurs between the workpiece and rising teeth of the blade, not between
the workpiece and the fence.
> You could try using your eyes to observe what's happening at your saw.
I personally have done exactly this, both with the fence parallel to the
blade and with it splayed out a bit. My observations simply do not jive
with your claim.
No pressure is needed on the workpiece behind the blade to keep it
against the fence. Think about it -- if the workpiece is straight and the
fence is straight, and the workpiece is against the fence in front of the
blade, how can there be a gap between the workpiece and fence behind the
blade? Try this -- move the fence away from the blade, or lower the blade
below the table, and set a straight board against the fence. Push the
board against the fence only in front of where the blade would be. Is the
board touching the fence at the back?
Jim
Bridger
<someon...@microsoft.com> wrote:
>Last chance to get on board. Interspersed.
>
>"Unisaw A100" <Unisa...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:aufg109q6rlm5s7nl...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Table saw has fence out of parallel to the blade by 1/64"
>> over it's length.
>>
>> The operator is pushing a piece of wood against the fence
>> (from the operator's side) and into the whirring blade.
>>
>> As the wood passes the blade it is still being held against
>> the fence (from the operator's side) and will be held
>> against the fence for the entire cut.
>
>WRONG - The wood is held tightly against the fence prior to the cut, and
>the direction of feed is parallel to the blade. If you look at the wood,
>it's actually free of the fence, where it _might pinch and kick back_ off
>the blade.
so your wood only touches the fence at the front of the saw? on my saw
that point is a good 8 or 10 inches away from the blade.
what you are describing is hardly different from freehanding the cut
or working with a starting pin.
>
>> When the wood exits the back side of the whirring blade the
>> freshly cut edge to the fence side is indeed not rubbing
>> against the teeth of the blade.
>>
>> The other side of the kerf, the side without the fence, is
>> now rubbing against the teeth.
>>
>
>Only if YOU have the brains of a gnat and and reach behind the blade. The
>rest of us read the books - the same ones that tell of a pinch relief (did
>you read the instructions for the Jet-Lock on your UA100?) - and know that
>no pressure is ever applied after the cut. The piece unrestrained.
um... no. the piece is restrained (at least until the board is in 2
pieces) by it's own structural integrity.
by the way, you don't help your cause by resorting to invective. it
just makes you look like a poopiehead....
; ^ )
>
>Now, in a non-nit-picking world, if it gets touched by a tooth, it has room
>and the tendency to to move laterally out of the way. If you provide
>relief on the fence side, within limits, the same condition pertains to the
>dimension piece.
>
>> I'm unsure how else to say it without the aid of chalk.
>>
>
>You could try using your eyes to observe what's happening at your saw.
I do. I keep the wood against the fence it's entire length.
>
>> >I keep remembering a thread on how to keep the fence on a router table
>> >parallel to the cutter. Same thing - only one point counts in cutting.
>>
>> If you are running wood between a turning router bit and a
>> fence you've either got balls the size of church bells or
>> the brain of a gnat.
>>
>
>Or you're not through-cutting?
that exception occured to me also....
Unisaw A100
complete snippage...
Hey Bridge, one of the definitions of insanity is,
"performing the same task over and over again
but expecting different results".
Now I know for certain I'm just a wee bit insane but
I'm not insane enough to try and sway Bay Area George.
Sides, it's too cold outside to break out the sidewalk chalk
and then there's the snow covering that would need removing.
UA100, on to fight another day...
Bridger
wrote:
>Bridger wrote:
I guess he slipped in under the radar.
that generic-first-name-only bit musta been what fooled me....
Bridger